The price of freedom [Archive]

candy

06-06-2005, 05:25 PM

To be honest, I just don't see how it can work. I myself had looked into this and well, with no money to go through it, I was unable to give it a try.
I myself did call the Waissman Institute and found that they were more interested in selling it than making it happen for someone. I gave them my info and they called quite frequently to see if I was able to get the money together.
What scares me is the risk of overdose one faces if they do go back to using. I have heard some horror stories and out here in L.A. there was a doc doing it out of a hotel in Hollywood. While he may have been treating those who wanted to keep a low profile, a hotel room????? Bit scarey if something goes wrong.

What is next after they go through the detox? Are they just sent home and told to go to some meetings? Any follow up?

Sounds too good to be true! Has anyone had it done?

Peripat

06-06-2005, 07:09 PM

I knew a girl in Brisbane, Australia who went to Israel to have it done, back in 1996. (It wasn't available here in those days, so add to the cost of overseas medical care, the incredibly steep airfares from here to Israel... I can't recall the figure, but $15,000 US was far from it!) Her parents (out of desperation, I believe) paid for it. Last thing I heard, she was still using.

candy

06-06-2005, 08:23 PM

Most people that I know who have been through it are back to using. It is a great quick fix for those who can afford it and need to get clean quickly. Here in LA it is used by those in the acting industry. Get them clean so they can work is how it works.

Let's face it addiction, especially to opiates is a tough one. I myself could never just use once in a while. My last run, I was back to 2 grams + in less than a month. Although this run was not as long as others, the thought of detox was not a welcome one and I went back on Methadone.

Unfortunately we don't remember the pain and hell we went through in detox. We are not thinking back to the week of hell we just endured as we are leaving with a bag of dope.

I have not heard any positives regarding Anesthsia-Assisted Detox nor anyone who has stayed clean longer than a few days to weeks.

Va_va

06-07-2005, 09:17 AM

I think the real question is not about the money mainly but being able to stay off as its a damn lot of money to blow if you dont.

Its so strange that after being on for a while you want to be off and then when ure off u want to use again. This may not be the case for some but sadly for me it is.

Peripat

06-08-2005, 08:38 PM

Its so strange that after being on for a while you want to be off and then when ure off u want to use again.

From talking to many users over many years, I'd say that's an issue for many (if not most) of us.

COLONELWAYNE

06-09-2005, 01:10 AM

I know of a guy that had it done in North Alabama to get off oc's but it only costed him something like $3500. They shot him up with naltrexone or something before he left so that if he did do something right away he wouldn't feel anything but a sick hangover.He said he didn't crave it at all afterwards and stayed clean for 8 or 9 months.Then supposedly his wife caught him chipping one day and left his ass. Needless to say, he's full blown again and begging his friends and family for the money to try it once more. CANDY, you're the RN here,I have a friend here who has no working kidneys and has to dialyze 3 times a week. He smokes weed and takes all kind of hydro & oxy cause he's really messed up physically. Anyway, he says whenever he finishes his dialysis it's like using for the first time again.He says he feels no discomfort or cravings for any of the stuff and could pass a drug test if needed.My question to you is ,why could'nt we just dialyze and get our blood and organs pumped and filtered out like he does? Sure as hell would be alot cheaper than this other shit they're talking about. I don't know exactly what his procedure cost because he's on medicaide but I'm thinking he said it was in the hundreds, not thousands.Any thoughts or input on the matter? I've seriously considered checking into this for the purpose of detoxing. What do you think? C.W.

bi11i

06-09-2005, 01:45 PM

I would personally spend the $3500 to head to Mexico and give Ibogaine a try before investing $15-$20k in Anesthesia Assisted. Although a great idea, it's just too much to spend. At $5000, maybe I would consider it, but anything about that is just too rich for my blood.

chucky

06-09-2005, 02:25 PM

At the price of 15,000 to 19,000 dollars only the well off are able to afford this. I would think that if they could make payment plans readily available and dropped the price this method might greatly help the addicted communities get clean , if they were so inclined. By the looks of other posts and listning to what people have said about it doesn't work better then any other kind of detox going aroud, just quicker and a hell of alot more expensive.:cool:

candy

06-09-2005, 03:37 PM

Hey Colonel Wayne,
To answer your question regarding dialysis, the best answer I can come up with is due to the function of dialysis, which filters the blood ridding it of wastes and toxins. The blood is purified when wastes diffuse through the filter with dialysis, thereby restoring the bodies ph, regulating the acidic/alkalinity of the blood, and restoring fluid balances back to normal.
I imagine this is why your buddy describes the experience he is having.
In certain medical emergencies, dialysis can be performed. Poisonings, drug overdose, drug toxicity, but this is only done in an acute medical situation when fatalities are involved. There are certain risks involved in having dialysis and although it seems like a great idea, I doubt the medical community would go for it.

One thing to think about is that dialysis does not do as good a job as normal healthy kidneys do. A clean drug test, yeah.....You are basically at a clean state. It is not a proceedure you could have done all the time as those with kidney problems suffer from cardiac problems as well as other physical ailments.

It sounds great, but I think the medical community would only weigh the benefits vs. risk and go with too many risks.

But hey, you have my curiosity peaked and I am going to do a bit of research on the subject. Hell, maybe I can open up my own dialysis unit somewhere and make some real money detoxing addicts.

Paregoric Kid

06-09-2005, 04:51 PM

I had a grandmother that was on dialysis for 8 years, just died last week. she never had a real problem with it. I believe it's not as risky as it was in the past.

COLONELWAYNE

06-10-2005, 01:14 PM

Sorry about your Grandmother P.K.:( Candy,or anyone else for that matter with an opinion, We have a couple of clinics now that ar e pushing something called "chelation" (kelation) I'm not sure how it's spelled but I think it's pronounced with the " K " sound, anyway it's some kind of I.V. cocktail the "healthnuts" as they're referred to, are having administered to rid their bodies of toxins and impurities.I guess it's sort of in relation to these "enema" parties I've read about people giving one another. The chelation process takes around four hours to complete and costs $100.I know a couple of people who've had it done and swear by it as a means of " replenishing the soul". From the research I've done on the rapid detox, the procedures are basically the same. I'm not sure what the formula consists of in the first concoction but the basic ingredients in the rapid detox formula are "naltrexone" and "phenobarbital" Needless to say,the process of drug detoxing of course varies from person to person and takes substantially longer to complete.( anywhere from 6 to 12 hours depending on the drug and frequency of use.In some cases it may even take longer.) Most of the case studies I read did not have a very high success rate and the patients still complained of heavy withdrawls and nausea for several days after completeing the treatment. My question to you all (questions) are as follows: First, are any of you familiar with the "chelation "process and have tried it? Second:do you know what they're using to "cleanse" your body? (formula) Third:did you feel any different after having it done? The point I'm leading up to is,I know this stuff is administered by licensed physicians and nurses.It may be a license to steal but at a $100 a pop maybe it's worth a gamble? Furthermore, maybe a person could talk them into putting a little naltrexone and phenobarbital in their formula.Huh? This is just thoughts I've been pondering over.Yeah, bi11i , Mexico didn't seem like such a bad idea till I read the news yesterday."Town can't keep police chief" latest one gunned down less than 10 hours after taking office! Was quoted as saying," I fear nothing or no-one" :rolleyes:The two leading drug cartels in the town blamed for the assassination. Then again maybe it isn't such a bad idea, unless your a policeman! lol Though I'm sure those two cartels aren't interested in getting you "OFF" any drugs!;) Later all, C.W.

Va_va

06-10-2005, 01:30 PM

Theres centres here in the UK that will do the anastetic procedure for under 600 pounds. That was the quote i was given when i contacted the link below. The 5 day centre. Claiming you will drift in and out of conciousness almost a dreamy like state and be watched around the clock by nurses in your very own room. After you will have to keep taking the naltrexone for a short while.

Heres the link - www.detox5.co.uk (http://www.detox5.co.uk/)

Much cheaper, Happy days - Vava

chucky

06-10-2005, 01:32 PM

That doesn't sound like that bad of a deal, if it works.

Va_va

06-10-2005, 01:35 PM

chucky

06-10-2005, 01:43 PM

Sounds dreadfull, though my detox was nothing fuckin enjoyable, none are I think. There will always be some pain in a detox otherwise I wouldn't have stop using if there was no consequences.:cool:

bi11i

06-11-2005, 08:42 PM

Anyone had a go with Ibogaine? Contact me privately, would ya?

candy

06-21-2005, 08:20 AM

Chelation therapy is a medical treatment used by docs to improve metabolic function. It is done by administering an IV infusion of EDTA(ethylene-diamine-tetra-acetic acid0 an amino acid which unclogs blocked arteries. EDTA's action is to re-distribute or remove the metals in the body through the urine. It is used more often with arteriosclerosis. Colonel Wayne, I just cannot see the Chelation therapy working with a detox. EDTA does not reach the extracellular level of the body where detox would occur, if that makes sense. Sorry if I do seem out of sorts, it is about 6 am and I have not slept well for the past few nights. Not sure what is going on with me. But, this is all quite interesting and I will give it some more thought. As I said, I don't believe it would work for detox and unless your feeling old these days, I would not bother with it!

Dr Benway

07-05-2005, 10:14 AM

Thats way to dear.:mad: give me the $15000 and I think I could be persuaded to do it without anaesthetic (for a week or two!).

Medicine is much cheaper here in th UK and you can even get grants for this type of treatment. To ask such vulnerable people to pay so high prices for a treatment that might not work is outrageous. This aint breast enlargement! Many in the British Medical Association believe that when an addict quits, society benefits. No more crime, etc. and the aquisition of a new useful member in society. So why not give grants to those that will benefit from this type of treatment....moan..grumble...groan.....moan....blo ody kids.....moan....

candy

07-10-2005, 02:42 PM

Are we not a society that is willing to pay for a quick fix to any problem. Just stand in the line at the grocery store and pick up any woman's rag and on the cover there in big bold type are promises of quick weight loss, better sex, dinner in under 20 minutes, etc. So when it comes to addiction, why not offer the same quick fix. Sure the cost is outrageous, but we have been brainwashed into thinking that if it's expensive and offers relief, it must be well worth it! Hell, how many times do we grab some item off the shelf because it costs more, when the off brand that has the same exact ingredients and does the same. But, we are willing to pay a few dollars more because the package is a bit nicer or we feel it is a better product. As addicts, heroin addicts, many of us have been through the more traditional detox, done the cold turkey kick, methadone. But, to go through the kick without experiencing any symptoms of detox, one may be willing to go to any expense. I myself have looked into Anesthesia-Assisted Detox and my impression was not a good one. Money it seemed should not be an issue. Was I not willing to go to any extent to get clean, especially with the promise of a life-time clean. Not only would I need to come up with the money to fly back eat, but as well the money to do the detox. Did I not have family members or good friends willing to spend the money to see me happy? As a nurse I can understand the costs of treatment, paying staff, monitoring the patient, what I don't buy is the outcome. It just seems to good to be true. But it sells and we as a society jump at any opportunity that promises quick results. There is a ton of cash to be made from addiction. I won't mention any names, but here in Los Angeles a particular physician is doing this Anesthesia-Assisted Detox out of a hotel in Hollywood. Other than paying his nurses to stay overnight, his overhead is low. He is pocketing most of the cash and having the patient check in to stay, he pays no taxes, no lease on an office, and unless he kills someone, no liability. The premise is great, but it is just not a safe or effective way to go. I look at it this way, it took me more than a few days to develop this addiction, to think I can beat it in a few days, well........

Opiyum

04-11-2006, 04:55 PM

I thought opiates were the quick fix for just about everything... ya know. And now they want to get people to try this quick fix to get you off the dope. Its just very stupid to me. This is definatly designed for the rich. Do you think the people using this treatment are aware that they are going to relapse and dont care going into it or do they think this is the answer to all their prayers. Because if its the later then those are some fucked up Doc's for sure.

blackdog

04-19-2006, 08:39 PM

colonel wayne might you be talking about.....well it kinda sounds like sumthin i heard on adh,
called nutra-cleanse i think its a health food store vitamin fix-all cocktail of some kind and i think they said its dangerous as hell.mybe i'll do a search around.......nutra-cleanse yeah that might be the ticket............da/dawgg
p.s. irod is a killer one of the original doctors is this guy lance gooberman dr who had brought it back from israel.and he lost his license cause of a few deaths that occured
it might be good if you enjoy wearing diapers for a month or so. it reminds me of those amazing cure all tonics back in the day.although they were the real mccoys opiate cocktails cure every and any thing....a dab'll do ya

pointed

04-23-2006, 04:32 AM

That is pretty pricey. Honestly, though, if I didn't have other reservations about the whole thing, I would probably go for it to get clean if I needed to. But there is a lot of risk associated with rapid detoxes. How could there not be? Withdrawal is actually a pretty dangerous thing, and accelerating the process has got to be seriously traumatic. I read somewhere that there have been a few deaths associated with URDs, which I do not find surprising. Also, I have a friend who did an URD (don't know what kind) and he says it was a miserable experience.

It also strikes me as something akin to extortion. Yeah, I support supply and demand, but surely this is a little outrageous? I mean, preying on people who are desperate and wish to better their lives is pretty low, particularly given how much time is wasted demonizing junkies.

Best,

Kate

pointed

04-23-2006, 04:56 AM

I'm not sure what the formula consists of in the first concoction but the basic ingredients in the rapid detox formula are "naltrexone" and "phenobarbital"

Just an aside - naltrexone sucks, big time. It's an opiate antagonist (or maybe a partial, not sure), like naloxone, and I found it to be worthless. It 'works' more or less by confusing your opiate receptors in such a way that cravings are supposed to be reduced. I think this really overestimates the impact of the physio on the psychological. I didn't appreciate the wasted dope when I tried to get high on it, either. ;) I have yet to meet anyone who found much of worth in the stuff.

Best,

Kate

mrods

04-23-2006, 07:09 AM

The prevailing price for AAROD (anesthesia assisted rapid opiate detoxification is not 15,000.00. At Midwest Rapid Opiate Detoxification Specialists (MRODS) in Chicago and Pacific Coast Center for Detoxification in LA the price is 9500.00. Both these programs are well established and in high quality licensed medical facilities with board certified anesthesiologists trained in AAROD providing the proceedure. At MRODS in Chicago they also have a licensed 28 day residential treament program and if someone goes through AAROD and then goes to New Hope Recovery Center (the treatment program), the combined price is 18,000.00.

Opiyum

04-23-2006, 01:41 PM

candy

04-23-2006, 04:07 PM

rajah

05-10-2006, 10:22 PM

I only have first hand knowledge of the clinic in Boston who took SWIM in for $7000 about 3 years ago. They literally made him leave when they were done and he had woken up enough after 30 hours. He was still in partial physical WD's and major mental WD's. He made me drive him to his dealers house and bought 2 bundles, did them all just to come around. I don't think it worked and his family was pissed. He said when he left, they just told him to go home, rest and come back for follow up in 2 days. I assume it has worked for many but find it hard to believe that you can change someones mental conditioning in 30 hours especcially when they are asleep. I also dont see how they can track success rates when they never see most people again. I'll suffer thank you, builds character

thanatos

05-10-2006, 11:12 PM

mrods

05-11-2006, 09:39 AM

Once again. Not all programs are 15, 000 - 20,000.00 dollars. There are other very good programs in Licensed acute care hospitals that offer AAROD (anesthesia assisted rapid opiate detoxification) for around $9,000.00 which is an all inclusive price. Additionally, MRODS (Midwest Rapid Opiate Detoxificatipon Specialists, www.mrods.com (http://www.mrods.com)) has a 28 day residential and outpatient program (New Hope Recovery Center, www.new-hope-recovery.com (http://www.new-hope-recovery.com)) that is an integral part of the rapid detox service. I believe if someone goes through AAROD and also goes into the 28 residential program the combined total cost is $17,000.00.

It pays to shop around. Plus what price can you put on recovery?

Thank you.

Phluck

05-11-2006, 11:18 AM

This angers me so much. If someone has reached the point of being willing to kick, and wants to, and is facing that big black, the last thing they should have to worry about is fucking money. Especially OUTRAGEOUS ammounts of it. Shit, you could self-medicate for years for 20k if you had the will power to not seek the warm numb embrace but just enough to keep from getting sick. The reality of the street is that the risks involved, from arrest, bad drugs, exposure to violence, the stigma of addiction, the physical harm possible in just doing street drugs, etc. is high, and to reach a decision to quit and then *not be able to afford to* is so typically American I want to vomit.
I am a maintainance addict, my doctor and I both have directly discussed and acknowledge that I am an addict, and that this is basically the best option, and so I get rx for methadone. Occasional Oxycontin and Fentanyl. I feel very lucky, I dont have to go to any clinics or programs, I get the meds monthly with just an annual visit which I pay $90. If I had to score on the street exclusively to keep from detoxing, I would be a completely different person. I am so glad that part of my life is over.
Thanatos

Wow... that sounds like an amazing doctor you've got.

The whole rapid detox thing seems like BS to me. It's obviously not going to help you with cravings, it's just going to shorten the length of the WD's, and maybe not even by all that much. Then... THOUSANDS of dollars for what? A few doses of naltrexone and some phenobarbitol to keep you sedated through the whole thing?

If you locked yourself inside for a week or two, would you not be in exactly the same position? The only reason you'd be less likely to relapse after the rapid detox is because of house stupid you'd feel for wasting $10,000.

oc80tn

05-11-2006, 12:09 PM

I hate to be a wet blanket here, but I don't think that any of these addiction treatments are worth much. Almost all of them have extremely high failure rates. I think the only real solution to treating the problems that addiction causes society is to simply decriminalize or legalize drugs. A junky is only a problem when he or she can't get their fix. Look at history. Before the Harrison Narcotics Act essentially banned opiates/cocaine/marijuana in 1914, there wasn't a problem with crime associated with addicts. They could easily walk into any pharmacy, ask for their poison of choice, get high and that was the end of that. It only became a problem when they could no longer get their fix. The crime rate especially went up after organized crime started peddling stuff like heroin and cocaine. The government made addicts into criminals. In essence, they created a problem so they could fix it. Hey government, how's that working out for you?
If you want more information, watch the History Channel show, "Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way." They do one on opiates, cocaine, marijuana and I think one on stuff like LSD and Ecstacy. Although a little biased, it's still very illuminating.

exitwound

05-11-2006, 08:32 PM

I have tried my best to stay out of these debates, because I don't want to put off any potential sponsors of the site....but honestly, I don't put a lot of faith in any one particular "recovery" method. Particularly the more expensive they get.

But then I have no psychological addiction problems and if I were to ever actually eliminate my chronic pain I think that I'd be able to wean off of opiates fairly quickly (probably using suboxone since my doc appears to be familiar with its use). So I really can't speak from experience. I can only give a general caution that one needs to be sure that one is ready to wean off of opiates, and then do it. Dedication is first, expense is generally irrelevant, and method is a distant second.

Methadone is one option, suboxone is rapidly becoming the method of choice....group detox, check-in clinics, anaesthesia-assisted detox, these things are novel and if you're an extreme case with the funds available to employ them....then hey, why not. But don't feel compelled to strain your already borderline life if you're not ready to make the most of it.

blackdog

05-11-2006, 10:10 PM

look this irod is for the desperate families willing to cough up the one last chance to bring a loved one back from the insanity of addiction.but in reality the basic problem is that one wants to change/stop. no one treatment or procedure is going to do that.except for the individual who is wanting of it.anyhow that irod procedure is only a cold turkey under anesthesia and supposed medical supervision.if you call for information you can relate to it as if walking into a showroom of new cars or furniture and then the financial officer squeezes you till the deed is done.
thats all, they put you to sleep fer a bunch of time and then they implant a naltrexone in your ass or arm and slap ya on ass and wish ya good luck as you leave.ha as if they even had that little amount of concern. all they want is for the credit card and /or check ta clear. vultures.
how is Claire Weissman's level of comfort/living
any indigent cases,any charity care at the Weissman institute? oh those poor individuals and families.giving up the dough. nuff said?? da/dawgg:mad:

shaunclo

05-12-2006, 01:00 PM

It pays to shop around. Plus what price can you put on recovery?

Thank you.

sell crazy somewhere else, were all stocked up here......Ive always wanted to say that.

What I sincerely dont understand is why it is so expensive, can you please explain that? I mean if the goal is to help people, and its not about the money, than why is it only a viable option for those who have the money? See where im coming from.....

shaunclo

05-12-2006, 01:04 PM

Coddfish

05-12-2006, 01:14 PM

I guess also what Im trying to say is you said, "what cost can you put on recovery".......exactly, if it works so good, why not make it affordable enough for a good majority of people to be able to use it. Then if it really does work that good, than word of mouth will do the rest, and the money would be pouring in.It doen't work well, or at all in my case. keep that in mind and you answered your own question. Milk that mysterious fad as long as they can.

pachick

06-29-2006, 04:41 PM

yea sounds good maybe if insurance covered it.... but i cant belive it really works, maybe for a short time, but ive been on suboxone for 5 weeks(thats expensive too) and then i was clean for 6 weeks after the sub treatment, but one day i couldnt take the knee pain i have and said o i can take one mesley vic es, and now 4 months later here i am trying to find out all the 411 on "POD'S"
so basically what im trying to say is, thats a whole hell of alot of paper w/o ANY guaranty.

Phluck

06-29-2006, 06:09 PM

I think the reason it costs so much, is because there are some people willing to pay that much. Really though, it sounds way too good to be true. All it does is fast forward the worst bit of withdrawal... and often they don't treat people that well.

Read this: http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_3.shtml

It's an account of a visit to rapid detox. After the treatment, he was still really, really sick. He was getting really dehydrated 'cause he couldn't hold anything down, and finally someone came in and hooked up a saline IV... later he found out they charged him $500 just for that IV! This is after already paying $5000 for the treatment. He was still feeling really sick when he went home. So much so that the guy next to him on the plane asked to be moved, because he was vomiting repeatedly.

Basically, get a friend to take care of you for a while, even offer to pay them a bit. While you might have to suffer a while longer, it's not really going to hurt more. Get some benzos to help with sleep and anxiety. If you have a good friend there, they can make sure you don't do any opiates. Drink plenty of water if you can. After about a week or so, you'll be in the same place you would be after going through that rapid detox shit. Rapid detox won't take away the cravings or anything either... can you imagine if you paid close to ten grand, only to get home and find a few bags you didn't know about? You'd probably have a lot of trouble not shooting them... and then you're back at square one... only ten grand poorer. That would be really fucking depressing.

Zoop

06-29-2006, 07:42 PM

I called the Waismann Center at one time and talked to some cunt who told me if my family and friends loved me, they would put up the money for me!

I did ask for some material to be sent and more info. They called me several times over a few days and sent a follow up letter asking me if I was ready and if I had worked out some type of financial arrangements.

It doesn't work. Research has shown that most addicts relapse several times before getting clean. Do you know many who have done it on the first go? I don't.

There is no miracle cure to addiction and it is a combination of both physical and mental. You can't treat one without treating the other.

As if y'all care, I am going to say here than Miss Candy is the only one who has even come remotely close to addressing the true nature of addiction. The "cure" - more like treatment, is a combination of physical and mantel. These guys doing this super rapid detox are a bunch of anesthesiologist schiesters who figured out a way to speed up the "kicking process" AND THAT'S IT. They don't know anything else about how an addict's mind works, and how true recovery from addiction works.

Drug use is only a symptom of an underlying mental imbalance, a disorder or disease if you will, which, when treated, will lead to lasting (but not usually PERMANENT) periods of abstinence. So, if a guy stays off drugs for 4 years, then uses for like 6 months, then goes back into recovery mode, is he worse off? No. He's better off than if he had been doing that downward spiral the whole time.

AS for one of the other posters - looks like he hasn't posted anything since - "Thanatos" - who said
This angers me so much. If someone has reached the point of being willing to kick, and wants to, and is facing that big black, the last thing they should have to worry about is fucking money. Especially OUTRAGEOUS ammounts of it. Shit, you could self-medicate for years for 20k if you had the will power to not seek the warm numb embrace but just enough to keep from getting sick. The reality of the street is that the risks involved, from arrest, bad drugs, exposure to violence, the stigma of addiction, the physical harm possible in just doing street drugs, etc. is high, and to reach a decision to quit and then *not be able to afford to* is so typically American I want to vomit.
I am a maintainance addict, my doctor and I both have directly discussed and acknowledge that I am an addict, and that this is basically the best option, and so I get rx for methadone. Occasional Oxycontin and Fentanyl. I feel very lucky, I dont have to go to any clinics or programs, I get the meds monthly with just an annual visit which I pay $90. If I had to score on the street exclusively to keep from detoxing, I would be a completely different person. I am so glad that part of my life is over.

I think this "doctor" is either the most unusual doctor in America, involved in organized crime perhaps, or most likely, he's just as real as that six foot tall rabbit in that movie. A doctor is not, by Federal law, allowed to prescribe narcotics to maintain someone's addiction if he is aware of that person's addiction. The reason buprenorphine is so unique is that it is the first controlled substance that is allowed to be prescribed by doctors, to addicts, expressly for that purpose.

Anyways, some people are a little mixed up, ya know? And what the fuck is that comment about "this is so typically American it makes me want to vomit?" Get the fuck out of this country if it makes you so sick. Go to Sweden and live off the welfare state or go down to South America and get kidnapped or something. :cool:

Phluck

06-29-2006, 08:01 PM

I think this "doctor" is either the most unusual doctor in America, involved in organized crime perhaps, or most likely, he's just as real as that six foot tall rabbit in that movie. A doctor is not, by Federal law, allowed to prescribe narcotics to maintain someone's addiction if he is aware of that person's addiction. The reason buprenorphine is so unique is that it is the first controlled substance that is allowed to be prescribed by doctors, to addicts, expressly for that purpose.

Anyways, some people are a little mixed up, ya know? And what the fuck is that comment about "this is so typically American it makes me want to vomit?" Get the fuck out of this country if it makes you so sick. Go to Sweden and live off the welfare state or go down to South America and get kidnapped or something. :cool:

I don't know that this guy's doctor doesn't exist. If the guy started on the drugs due to chronic pain, and still has chronic pain, but is also an addict, then the doctor could easily continue to prescribe the drugs. This doesn't make him involved in organized crime or anything.

The fact is there are a lot of companies in the states that charge lots of money for medical services with more of an intent to make money than anything else. The US isn't a perfect country, or the best country. It's heavily flawed just like every other country on the planet. I doubt you're exactly proud of the American approach to illegal drugs, are you? If you don't like the American drug policy, is it your duty to just shut up and "love it or leave it", or is it best to point out the flaws in the hope that they can be changed?

The attitude that you shouldn't criticize your country personally makes me sick. One of the GOOD things about the US is that you're allowed to voice criticism. That's the whole point of democracy, you can criticize, and you can push for change. It's one thing to love your country, it's another to believe that the world revolves around your country, that it's better than anywhere else, and that you shouldn't be allowed to live there unless you agree. People who dislike that bad things about their country and speak up are the ones that make changes for the better.

blackdog

07-05-2006, 05:10 PM

The devil wear's a nice suit eh?

no junky in his/her fucked up mind is going to waste any of there own hard hustled cash to waste on a wishfull hopeless abtempt at recovery last grasp at any/all hope fer a sucessfull dream come true.

the families are more so the one's that would be willing to blow that or any amount of chump change to rescue a loved one from the devils grasp/control. from addiction....suckers....i'll tell ya ...i almost feel sorry more so for addicts families then i do the addicts themselves....whatever leeches bloodsuckers giving a chance of hope for a price and what a price indeed.almost same as the clinics. sure they can help addicts for a price$$$$$$$

da/dawgg:mad:

laynesfriend

07-21-2006, 02:14 AM

I'm sorry guys but I think this is the worst thing in the world and not even going to work. The only way to quit is cold turkey. period. The pain is important! I put myself into a lock down facility that didn't even give you clonadine. I was coming of a ten year run. I was in detox for twenty days and fifteen of them were hell!! I still remember!!! that experience kept me from getting hooked ever again. I think a six hour treatment that is virtually painless would never work for long term recovery. Just my opinion, do pain no gain.

Opiyum

07-21-2006, 01:21 PM

no junky in his/her fucked up mind is going to waste any of there own hard hustled cash to waste on a wishfull hopeless abtempt at recovery last grasp at any/all hope fer a sucessfull dream come true.

the families are more so the one's that would be willing to blow that or any amount of chump change to rescue a loved one from the devils grasp/control. from addiction....suckers....i'll tell ya ...i almost feel sorry more so for addicts families then i do the addicts themselves....whatever leeches bloodsuckers giving a chance of hope for a price and what a price indeed.almost same as the clinics. sure they can help addicts for a price$$$$$$$

da/dawgg:mad:

I was refering to the clinics when I said The devils wears nice clothes or whatever I said but anyway your right about what you said so this is a pointless post.

blackdog

07-21-2006, 01:27 PM

whatchoo tawkin bout willis??????????

poonwhalla

08-30-2006, 03:01 AM

shit poppa needs a new pair of shoes!!!

Babydollangel

08-30-2006, 10:06 AM

Ive read some about this method of detox and agree with others that it most likely wont work.

Unless of course they can do a brain transplant at the same time....even though the physical pain will most likely not be an issue you can damn sure bet id go about a week before the thinkin of 'omg now my tolerance is zero, what fun can be had NOW!' haha...

anyways just my vote.

nick

08-30-2006, 12:06 PM

Even if you walk out the door clean,the chances of relapse are high if the underlying cause of the habit isn't addressed.Hell the only DR doing this kind of withdrawl in the UK is getting struck off due to the unfortunate death of one of his patients.So unless I got on a plane I couldn't try this anyway
P.S. It's good to live in a country with free healthcare..

blackdog

08-30-2006, 09:37 PM

I was refering to the clinics when I said The devils wears nice clothes or whatever I said but anyway your right about what you said so this is a pointless post.

so what's your point?:confused- :confused- :confused- :confused- :confused- :confused-

dolofina

09-03-2006, 11:48 PM

Ive read some about this method of detox and agree with others that it most likely wont work.

Unless of course they can do a brain transplant at the same time....even though the physical pain will most likely not be an issue
you can damn sure bet id go about a week before the thinkin of 'omg now my tolerance is zero, what fun can be had NOW!'
...
I agree that i would probably be one that would think along these lines, as well.

Highway Robbery is my vote.

madnesscult

09-04-2006, 11:53 PM

If I had the money, and actually thought it would work (for sure, not just a maybe) I would do it. But as it is, I barely have enough $ for my DOC or sub script.

As for URD possibly being painful, I can tell you first hand. A few years ago, I OD'd, and after a few hours, I was too much for my friends to handle, and they called an ambulance (they kept me awake/alive until then, but it was getting harder and harder). By the time the paramedics got there, I was pretty much okay, just a little bit too high, but not to the point of passing out and having my heart and breathing stop. They argued with me for a while, and finally convinced me to get into the ambulance. I thought that they would give me the normal Narcan, but apparently they gave me naltrexone instead (I later learned). It was the worst experience I have ever had in my life. I wasn't even addicted at that point, but it sent me into what I now know is withdrawl...
As soon as they injected it, I could feel it burning up through my veins. It was a hellish experience, and sent me into seizures. When I finally got to the hospital (it seemed like hours, but was probably only about 40 minutes) they gave me something to knock me out, finally relieving my agony.

BorisB

10-02-2006, 02:38 AM

double posted in error. Screw the [tab] key.

BorisB

10-02-2006, 02:39 AM

There's no doubt that if I was well-off and could be anasthesia-"cured," I would do it.

However, like Va_va so aptly pointed out, whenever we're on, we're done with the stuff and are fine with getting off...
but even after kicking there's still that lingering crave that makes me want to be on (which is driving me crazy because in my new locale I can't find shit).

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-17-2006, 04:18 PM

I would say that for roughly 10 bucks a day for as little as one week, you can obtain your own dissociative anesthetic in the form of DXM. This is not an option for a lot of people, because DXM is said to be a shameful drug to use. Not to mention that there is a bit of a learning curve for using the stuff in the first place. I am not recommending anyone dosing at an anesthetic level on DXM, just suggesting that it's dissociative properties can be a BIG help getting you through w/d times. Hell, the stuff even helped me get off the sauce in the military. If I wasn't drinking, I was getting high on something. If I wasn't doing anything at all, my head was pounding, I was puking all over the place shaky hands and full body trembles you name it. One week on DXM at 900 mg a day, and I could have cared less after that if I got high or not. You can actually find a few articles online about clinical use of DXM and Methadone to get patients through withdraw periods. So, my two cents is that it is NOT worth paying 15 grand for this. I can't guaranty any one having success with dissociative use to kill withdraws and get through a self detox...but I can say that I have done it myself a few times that I fell WAYYYYY off the deep end with my substance use. DXM proved to me that even opiate and alcohol addiction can be reasoned with

Karlin

11-17-2006, 09:15 PM

I had heard of the anesthesia detox, and when I was trying to kick it sounded pretty attractive. I could not even get thru more than 72 hrs. after 12 years of steady morphine prescription.

My mindset was that if I could just get past the WDs, I could make it, because I had taken the morph for pain , and those pains were much reduced now. I was still writhing after 72 hrs, and had no sense of anything and found myself taking it again.

In Wd's, the three days without sleep and all that pain and so on were just too much, but if I could have been "semi-conscious" thru that period I would not be so messed up.

The thing is, I am so sure that there MUST be some kind of chemical help, but I was not offered ANYTHING, not even just a nurse to talk to and keep me thinking about my goal. Left all alone, without any pain control at all just depletes the willpower. The attitude in de-tox is usually that "taking drugs during detox will only re-inforce dependancy on drugs", but thats a bit shallow minded, typical "war on Drugs" stuff.

It seems to me that WDs and detox is a very good use of 'other drugs' since the problem really is chemical at that time.

I do agree tho that having pain in withdrawals will deter addicts from going back to the dope. It also might be deterring me from trying to kick!!!

Hoss

11-20-2006, 03:49 PM

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-20-2006, 04:40 PM

During my last major WD fest, I was doing all sorts of research and did come across a vast amount of information concerning anestesia detox - however besides the cost of the procedure, I was theoretically afraid of the cravings that would occur after the fact.

I'm sure this route of anti-WD treatment could work wonders for all of us in the short term, but some of us with roots running deep may perhaps have cravings haunt us for who knows how long.

When you are experiencing WD, though, ANY light at the end of the tunnel is a welcome option; just how feasible each option is, though, based on multiple factors, is the reality of the situation.

And, like you stated, you never know just how deep your cravings go. The pain does not keep us away from using, it merely sucks us back in so we can remove it with what we desire so. Quitting opiates is such a personal adventure that it is next to impossible to say what will work from one person to the next. Like I said earlier in the thread, DXM has helped me out of the sling a number of times. Even so, I will get a craving out of the blue that gets me right back into the habit. One thing that has helped me is the ability to intellectualize my cravings. When you can catch yourself in the act of giving self excuses, you are that much closer to understanding the endless loop of addiction.

That alone won't help stop the pain. Anesthetics and or dissociatives can be a big help in countering wd pains. Ask yourself; is the pain I feel really there, or is it my body wanting a substance so bad that it is willing to make me hurt until I give in? Some of us have legitimate pain...hell, I have had both shoulders dislocated more than once and I have chronic tendonitis in both knees from running countless amounts of miles on hard surfaces. I don't have it as bad as a lot of folks do, but I noticed that as soon as I DXMed (yes I know...broken record with the DXM talk) myself out of the wd point of opiates, my pains were far less.

AWOL

11-20-2006, 05:07 PM

From what I hear most people hate DXM. I personaly think it's just because they haven't quite figured it out yet, it's deffinetly not a swallow and feel good drug. Takes practice to know what you want out of it. If I would have had other substances available at the time I wouldn't have ever tried DXM beyond once. Glad that I did however, but I can understand why most people don't like it.

Hoss

11-20-2006, 05:13 PM

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-20-2006, 06:16 PM

My first DXM experience consisted of a condensed DXM pill that was taken by mistake, thinking it was of an MDMA nature back in my rave DJing days; BOY was I in for a ride! The particular type of pill I injested was called "Green Triangles" and it had me twisted in ways I had never experienced; nothing like that as a suprise when you are DJing in front of 5,000+ people, eh?

I haven't tried DXM to help with opiate WD's, but am curious at the prospect. I'll be checking out your post archive Dexter to get your take on the subject, which sounds very interesting.

My initial take on DXM was that it was a vile substance that I, for some reason, could not get enough of. DXM is a one in three drug. One in three that try it will not like it and will never do it again. One in three that try it will like it but could care less if they ever do it again. The last one in three that try it will like it and most likely do it again and again.

The following are three common reasons why people do not use DXM more than once;

Factor 1: Nausea

Factor 2: Gas and or diarrhea

Factor 3: Dissociatives scare the living shit out of some people. Most are not aware that DXM is stronger than PCP and Ketamine in effect, and that it feels at times like taking the two together in a pretty high dose. DXM will NOT comfort you like an opiate will, and if you are not ready for the high it will chase you around with a bloody hatchet through the astral planes.

Here is how you can counter two of the three; (the third is up to you, no one can tell you if you have the ability to stand dissociative anesthetics like DXM)

Nausea: Avoid inactive ingredients like guaifenesin and sorbitol as well as large amounts of artificial sweeteners. These can cause nausea as well as gas and diarrhea. There are OTC products you can take to counteract nausea as well as gas and diarrhea.

Gas and diarrhea: Read the above^

Good ol THC is pretty good at reducing dissociative nausea as well, but weed and DXM is an out of this world high that some just can’t handle. There is a lot more I can add to this to help anyone along with DXM use. One last note though…no doubt a lot of people have read articles about DXM causing lesions on the brain. Let us get the fact straight though, this study was performed on lab rats and has NOT been duplicated in laboratory study with a human. Most importantly, the rats were given well above the LD/50 dose and most died. Those that died had their brain tissue analyzed and lesions were found. (google Olney to read into it a bit) The LD/50 for humans is not known at this point, and was once stated as 20 mg/kg. I have taken well over double that dose, and have no lasting issues to date.

I would consider putting together a tips style guide for anyone interested in using DXM to counter wd pains. I have dosed before doing a military tear gas exercise, and while I did cough I felt ABSOLUTELY no pain. So, I can just about bet that DXM will counter most peoples wd pains if they can actually stomach the DXM. Let me know folks…and I will see what I can put together.

Hoss

11-20-2006, 06:30 PM

Definitely interested Dexter

AWOL

11-20-2006, 06:33 PM

Good ol THC is pretty good at reducing dissociative nausea as well, but weed and DXM is an out of this world high that some just can’t handle.

Oh my god do not try this combo until you've got about 50 trips under your belt or you'll wake up naked climging the neighbors tree. It takes practice to recognize a trip for a trip, and not just some crazy dream you're having. Even one single hit of shitty ass weed will have you tripping harder than you've ever experience for an hour or two.

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-20-2006, 06:34 PM

Definitely interested Dexter

Alright, let me see what I can cook up and I will post it under the DXM section and link to it from this thread. Might take a lil while, and the lady will be home soon. If I do not have it for you in 30 minutes or so, I will have it posted by noon on tuesday.

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-21-2006, 10:39 AM

I have posted the start of the DXM introduction here: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=57469#post57469

Additions will be made to the text often to keep it accurate and current. For anyone interested in using DXM to counter wd pains and getting through self assisted detox, I will be posting methods and reasons for working in the above listed thread as soon as I have the basic guide for the safe use of DXM finished.

hero 1

11-21-2006, 12:55 PM

SpecialGuy69

11-21-2006, 01:10 PM

hero- tell more about your experience with aad. I use subutex, and I'm not really considering it (at all) but I'd still be interested to hear your experience in more detail.

Dexter the Meth Orphan

11-21-2006, 01:41 PM

I have had the shear pleasure of having this done yea and like a dumb ass I thought that If I could just get off with out the sickness I could walk away I wald alll right straigt to the pay phone to beep my man

I didnt stay clean long enough to really see if I was clean they might of just shoved a shit load of oxys up my ass while i was out and sent me on my way

Did you really want to quit before you tried the treatment? Getting past the physical elements of wd are pointless if you don't have a set mental stand point on why you do not want to use any more. You might as well have washed your car and then driven it home down a dirt road...know what I mean? And that was one hell of a costly car wash m8!

vicious86

01-10-2007, 03:46 AM

People say its not totally pain free but its copeable. But i hope youve seen the proggrame 'when anastetic fails' before you do it. People having babies via versectame and being one hundread percent concious of every bit of there suffering whilst unable to move any part of there bodys let alone cry out.

Traumatic stuff, the last thing a user needs.

I was told by a friend who did it that its like waking up on your 4th day of wds.He said he was still kicking ,still couldnt sleep(but for 5 or 10 min cat naps)for weeks after. So he said its a waste of time and money
still HELL

tui

06-18-2007, 01:25 AM

Thinking about how much i used to spend on drugs weekly, 15k doesn't seem too bad at all... IF it worked.

t

pharmboy

07-13-2007, 04:18 AM

15K seems pretty high for freedom. If you want feedom you can
get it in Richmond,Va. for $3600.- for what they call Accelerated
Detox. Basically it takes four or five days, you have to be in full
blown WD when you show up, then they check you over and
give you a big dose of bup and a script for a couple hundred
Valium. You have to stay in a hotel for the four or five days
and you have to have someone shaperone you who is'nt an
addict for the whole time. Then on day three or four they shoot
you up with enough Valium to put you out and give you Naltrexone
for a few hours. At the end they will want to surgically implant a
Naltrexone rod under your skin. ( DO NOT DO THIS )
Naltrexone is of the Devil. Naltrexone makes you feel
DEAD. Well any way get alot of Valium for the road.
After I did this I only lasted six months but then I
have pain issues. I think with detox, hotel, travel
and food you could do it for alot less than 15K.
The place is Commonwealth Addiction Treatment Center.
204 N. Hamilton St. Richmond, Va.
www.virginiadetox.com (http://www.virginiadetox.com)
The Dr. name is Dr. Peter Coleman, nice guy from
New Zealand.

If you do it Good Luck and taper off the Valium.

Dan Steely

07-13-2007, 04:47 AM

it all seems pretty rackety to me. Set yourself up with some subs, a few benzos and take a nice vacation. you'll be just as well off, and at least you will have some cool pictures to show for it.

pharmboy

07-13-2007, 05:50 AM

ALL rehab / detoxes are a racket to some point but the place in
Richmond has some things going for it:

1) Your pretty much on your own, they dont hold you prisoner and
make you obey a bunch of arbitrary rules and regs.

2) They don't try to brainwash you with a bunch of NA / AA crap.

3) You can eat and drink what you want.

4) You don't have to quit smoking or go outside for a cig.

5) It's pretty cheap compaired to some other places.

rachamim18

11-14-2007, 02:03 AM

Put it this way..the method was piuoneered by an IDF doctor because so many of us had caught the "Soldier's Disease" in Lebanon. We were provided the wervice free of charge and yet hardly anyone of us , including myself, ever took it. Why? Because even when you do not die, and death is a vry real risk, you are putting too great a stress upon your body.

this also does not consider the fact that most of addiction is mental and pumping you with antagonists is not going to change one iota of your mind frame.

For those who question whether or not it actually works, it DOES. Physicall withdrawal is a 72 hour affair from most opiates/opioids, certainly from heroin and morphine. In any vent, even if it is methadone it works because it scours your receptors clean. you have 0 tolerance. The reason people cannot sleep is because they have mental addictions. It is not so simple as to wake up one day with a 2 gram heroin habit, go under for a few hours and and wake up without the Gorilla. The vomiting and runs are through and over but the yearning does not disappear nearly as easily.

jacky

11-15-2007, 12:44 PM

yeah, I have known people to go through similiar procedures, and still feel sick for a week after.

others are back to work in days after the program. I guess it depends on how much you have ignored your health while binging...
some wealthy junkies actually gain weight when using heroin.

naltrexone doesnt work for everyone afterward either...I consider it useless for maintenance, and I have easily gotten high when taking naltrexone for months, 50 milligrams a day.
it did take me more heroin to get high, but I felt it within 10-20 minutes.

I also know a person who died from a heroin overdose, while on naltrexone...obviously naltrexone can be overidden.

anesthesia assisted detox is an interesting concept, but man, how invasive....

didnt really think about it, till rachamins statement about death, but I would consider it a possibility that some people might have complications that lead to death during the procedure.

a nurse I know that has assisted some of these detoxes said its horrible to watch,
convulsions, shitting, puking and pissing oneself...tounge biting etc.

but hey, if you got the money, and you want to be clean for your high school reunion in a few weeks, knock yourself out, .......for real.

SirDonkeyPunch

11-17-2007, 03:41 PM

People say its not totally pain free but its copeable. But i hope youve seen the proggrame 'when anastetic fails' before you do it. People having babies via versectame and being one hundread percent concious of every bit of there suffering whilst unable to move any part of there bodys let alone cry out.

Traumatic stuff, the last thing a user needs.

wait do you mean cessarian section. a vasectamy (sp?) is when you got your nut hoses cut. men only. thought id correct that and/or figure out what you meant lol. well thats all i got. all i know is, no pain no gain. theres no easy way out. if you can get thru the sickness, you can get thru a lot of shit, and that mentality helps a lot when your clean to help stay clean. just my thoughts tho.

irish

11-19-2007, 03:35 AM

Ummmmmmmmmm.. cesareans are almost always done with an epidural-so yeah they're awake but they don't feel it. The whole failing anesthesia thing happens when the sedatives and analgesics wear off but the paralytic (usually vecuronium) is still in effect. Doctors call this "locked in the box" and it happens way more often than you would think. Why do you think they give you versed? Even if you wake up you most likely won't remember. As far as the ultra-rapid detox I'm with rachamim on this. It's fucking dangerous and doesn't even come close to dealing with the real issues. This might work with pain patients whose condition gets better, but not your average recreational addict. They sedate you beacuse it is an incredibly painful procedure, and yeah you can die. Detoxing the old-fasioned way will not kill you. As far as any "doctor" who would do this in a hotel room without the resources of a hospital well, that's just fucking scary. If you start to crash, what's to stop him from just fucking off and leaving you? This should only be done in a hospital scenario or maybe a dedicated clinic. Would you let someone take out your appendix in a hotel?

Chicago

11-19-2007, 11:30 PM

hE IS RIGHT ON THIS, when I went to weisman in '98/99? Spent 10gz when I woke up I felt like shit all the w/d symtoms but the anexity, but u have to remember that the anestia for being under for that long will/does give you the same symptoms as heroin,,,
As for the price u can bargin with claire my first time she sent me a stament that was about 12g then I filleed another one out 11g then 3rd time I contacted her I payed 10g w/hotel stay in cali.BUT CALIR U A ARE A LIER. AS FOR UR BOTHER WHO U SAID IS DOING THE SAME PROCEDURE BUT IN ISREIAL B.S. I FOUND OUT BY REACHING AND CALLING.:mad:

Put it this way..the method was piuoneered by an IDF doctor because so many of us had caught the "Soldier's Disease" in Lebanon. We were provided the wervice free of charge and yet hardly anyone of us , including myself, ever took it. Why? Because even when you do not die, and death is a vry real risk, you are putting too great a stress upon your body.

this also does not consider the fact that most of addiction is mental and pumping you with antagonists is not going to change one iota of your mind frame.

For those who question whether or not it actually works, it DOES. Physicall withdrawal is a 72 hour affair from most opiates/opioids, certainly from heroin and morphine. In any vent, even if it is methadone it works because it scours your receptors clean. you have 0 tolerance. The reason people cannot sleep is because they have mental addictions. It is not so simple as to wake up one day with a 2 gram heroin habit, go under for a few hours and and wake up without the Gorilla. The vomiting and runs are through and over but the yearning does not disappear nearly as easily.

blackdog

12-02-2007, 11:06 AM

run forest run as fast as you can

rude

01-04-2008, 11:52 PM

tptptp

01-10-2008, 02:04 AM

If you have an extra 20k sitting around then you probably dont need detox anyway :P

This is really a wussy's way out anyway. Waaa. Im a junky and I want to withdraw and not feel any pain and I want the insurance to cover it because i deserve to come off years of abuse and feel no pain doing it :p. You get yourself into that and you deserve to feel a little like shit when you come down. Find a good detox that will let you down easy. There are ones out there that dont just toss you a few valiums and make you sweat, shake and hallucinate.

Nah, no one deserves to hurt just because they use. Now if it were LEGAL I'd have no sympathy cuz people could wean or do whatever but this shit hurts more than most can even dream when they start. It's usually the law on their ass and money problems that brings them to it.