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View Full Version : naltrexone + opiates = no w/d?


Guinea Pig
12-07-2006, 08:49 PM
Prelude: First of all, let me commend the National Library of Medicine service provided by the National Institute of Health. It is the only thing in terms of drug information that the U.S. is doing to help users.

I did a search on naltrexone and haven't found any real results, so excuse me if this came up before.

Everyone is free to read the actual text of the brief at the link posted below, but here's a summary from a case report on the PubMed site.

The subject was ingesting 200mg codeine 4 times a day (which is quite a dose I might add, I'm not sure why they'd go with codeine of all things) for a total of 800mg daily for the course of several months. With each dose, he was ingesting 0.5mcg of naltrexone (opiate antagonist), from what I understand this is an absolutely minute dose, with the standard dose being 50mg (not mcg). The subject did not experience tolerance, and when he quit cold turkey from this habit, experiencing an "uneventful, asymptomatic" withdrawal. Which I assume means now withdrawal at all.

I'll let the rest of the text speak for itself:

It was found that coadministration of naltrexone with codeine phosphate obviated the development of both tolerance and physical dependency over several months of four daily oral doses of 200 mg, allowing abrupt ("cold turkey"), asymptomatic and uneventful withdrawal. This points the way to the biochemical substrate of opioid tolerance itself, and shows that this can easily and inexpensively be blocked, even over months of iterative oral administration of substantial doses of opioid analgesics. Finally, it suggests the opioid withdrawal syndrome is directly related to the physiology of opioid tolerance, and can be prevented by blocking tolerance itself. Even when tolerance has been acquired, this can be reduced stepwise over a matter of days, with no symptoms of opioid withdrawal syndrome.

Maybe I'm just being too hopeful, but does anyone think it'd be worthwhile to test this out? Better yet, HAVE any members here taken minute doses of an antagonist along with an opiate?

Coddfish
12-07-2006, 09:01 PM
there is some stuff on this in another thread or two. it actually potentiates opiates, if i remember right. might be worth searchin if you're really interested. but to figure out the right dose, you gotta have a hell of a scale.

Guinea Pig
12-07-2006, 09:13 PM
Yeah, micrograms are kind of tough to figure out. But I wouldn't mind taking the challenge if it meant an "uneventful, asymptomatic" withdrawal" after months of use.

trainwrecker
12-07-2006, 10:44 PM
I think Jacky would be the person to talk to, I have read a few threads relating to his use of naltrexone and heroin I believe.

So Revia is naltrexone right? Or Narcan? Is that the same thing? So I could potentially break down some of the Revia pills I should still have laying around somewhere and take a tiny amount with my methadone to prevent tolerence? Or since it's synthetic would it be different? I've never heard of anyone using it with synthetics, just H and codine.

Guinea Pig
12-07-2006, 11:11 PM
Revia I believe is 50mg of naltrexone. This study did 0.5mcg of it. I have no clue absolutely how you would be able to obtain such a quantity of it without laboratory equipment.

Edit: Been thinking. If you take the 50mg pill, it's obviously impossible to measure 0.5mcg. 50mg = 50,000 mcg. So if you crush up the pill and add enough inactive ingredient (baking soda or something) to be able to measure the dosage accurately, that might work. Fuck I'm bad at math, I'm going to try and think it out.

Edit2: 50 milligrams = 50 000 mcg

Add 9950 milligrams of baking soda.

You now have (10 grams) 10,000,000mcg of powder with 50,000mcg of naltrexone in it.

If you want 1mcg of naltrexone, you measure out.. 0.2mg of powder. Which could be done with a good scale. This is all assuming it's evenly distributed. asdfasdkfaf am I just being totally nuts here? I think i am.

red26
12-07-2006, 11:50 PM
mesure it out by converting it to liquid.

Guinea Pig
12-07-2006, 11:56 PM
Jesus that makes so much more sense, it's soluble in water too. Hmpf.

Chipper
12-08-2006, 12:05 AM
I was thinking of using naltrexone as a tool to stop the dope hangovers and keep tolerance at bay (but that would be some 12 hours after chip).

Do you believe the text you posted? It's a miracle if it works, tho'

Guinea Pig
12-08-2006, 12:41 PM
Do I believe it? I'm not in a position to say, except that some guy named "Ott J" from Switzerland wrote it. I hope he has credentials. Here's the full text (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16681181&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum) for your enjoyment. Good luck.

roxi*stardust
12-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Interesting. My friend went to detox the gave she sub in there and when she came home after 7 days they scripted her Revia but told her if she had taken any opiates during that 7 days not to take the Revia, that it would precipitate WD's. There were warnings all over the the drug monograph that the pharmacy gave her. I was under the impression that Revia BLOCKED opiate receptors in the brain to help stop cravings.

trainwrecker
12-08-2006, 08:54 PM
Revia does block receptors, in the dosage it comes in anyway. We are talking about just taking a very minute amount of it daily, micrograms.

shaunclo
12-08-2006, 09:10 PM
I have heard horror stories of people taking naltrexone while being addicted to opies. I think Blackdog took a Revia by accident one night, and thought he was gonna die.

Chipper
12-08-2006, 09:31 PM
Thanks, it's good reading. I have some (rhetorical) questions...

Why does this not happen with Suboxone then? (maybe the antagonist dosage is too high??)

Why isn't this on the 6 o'clock news?
-----------------------------------------

Talk about HOPE! I so much want this to be true...

The 0.5mcg dose reminds me of the Bach Flower Remedies. I assume that's half a microgram?

I also read the references and found an article where they reckon they tried it with methadone and the results were promising. Thanks for your informative post.

Guinea Pig
12-10-2006, 10:44 PM
No prob, Chipper. The doses that are talked about are indeed in micrograms, which are minute doses that do not (AFAIK) come with any opioid combo. I doubt the 6 o'clock news would care very much for such a story, anything that helps "druggies" just doesn't have mass appeal

"Opiate-lovers can overcome tolerance, promises study"
"Medical breakthrough - junkies will never have to go through w/d again!"

Yeah. I doubt it.

What you say about methadone is interesting, however. Codeine (the article I linked to) is an opiate that occurs naturally, methadone is an opioid that is synthetic. It's promising if it would work on both. I'm, of course hesitant to yell "miracle cure" but I think that the pains of tolerance and withdrawal could be greatly reduced if the governments cared much about such research.

Coddfish
12-10-2006, 11:36 PM
and give up the methadone game? pshaaw. if 'they' didn't make money on that (and the dope they smuggle in from their fields/labs in afghanistan), then they'd probably just shoot all us junkies.

you'll have your wd's and like it.

having had a terrible experience with naltrexone, it's a little scary to think about taking it with dope or something. seems too good to be true, but if i hadn't thrown those evil white pills away, i'd probably try it.

somebody try it and report back. i think someone was supposed to on the other thread but never did hmmmmmm.......