systhesis of N-Phenethyl-Piperidone (NPP)

[zedhex]

I found a website giving details of how to synthesize Fentanyl, but there is the following about the precursor that has me stumped:

quote : "The precursor used is N-Phenethyl-Piperidone (NPP) which can be easily synthesized from Piperidone and Phenethyl-Tosylate or Phenethyl-Bromide through a simple SN2 mechanism".

er... call me a dumbass, but what is an SN2 mechanism? has anyone any clues?

[devilsdrug]

ahem dude some of our heavy duty chem guys havent been around much lately other than that uk should try a more chem oriented forum

[OxyContinuously]

SN2 mechanism refers to a substitution. For example, if it was an allyl group, a substitution would be putting a hydroxy or alkoxy ion in its place. i know where you got that synthesis from (opioids dot com) and let me just tell you not to try it. Unless you are a chemist (which i happen to be) you will fail. Not to mention that most piperidones and such are watched by the govt. make a long story short, there is no way to synthesize Fent through incomplete kitchen chemistry.

[Papa Verine]

SN2 mechanism refers to a substitution. For example, if it was an allyl group, a substitution would be putting a hydroxy or alkoxy ion in its place. i know where you got that synthesis from (opioids dot com) and let me just tell you not to try it. Unless you are a chemist (which i happen to be) you will fail. Not to mention that most piperidones and such are watched by the govt. make a long story short, there is no way to synthesize Fent through incomplete kitchen chemistry.

I spent several years trying until I came to the conclusion Oxy stated above. I tried to make everything when I was younger. I perfected some extractions and simple synths. but I gave up on trying to make Fentalny analogs. Piperidones are definately being watched and regulated as precursor chemicals.

My long story short...Grow your own poppies and settle for morphime extraction. That, you should be able to pull off.

[OxyContinuously]

I spent several years trying until I came to the conclusion Oxy stated above. I tried to make everything when I was younger. I perfected some extractions and simple synths. but I gave up on trying to make Fentalny analogs. Piperidones are definately being watched and regulated as precursor chemicals.

My long story short...Grow your own poppies and settle for morphime extraction. That, you should be able to pull off.


perfectly said, Papa Ver ;-) your own popps would be way easier than that synthesis

[nick]

Another young chemist has his hopes of cheap dope blown away.If making Fent or H was easy we'd all be doing it.

[zedhex]

ok, so it's not easy - but thats never stopped me before. I live in Asia anyway, so I don't have to worry about the US thought police tracking me down. I can get the chems I need without any hassles. What I do need is someone with a little more experience than I to tell me exactly how I go from Piperidone and Phenethyl-Bromide to N-Phenethyl-Piperidone (NPP).

Can anyone help?

[superman]

If making Fent or H was easy we'd all be doing it.

well you're in luck then cuz H couldn't be easier

EDIT: zedhex, have you even read rhodiums archive yet? from what i remember fentanyl synthesis was very thoroughly covered

[robojunkie]

If you don't know what an Sn2 mechanism is (like fourth week of first term undergrad organic) you have no business even thinking about trying this, though obviously you would not have the materials anyway. And if you did you would probably quite likely end up poisoning or sickening yourself. Synthesis ain't like baking a cake out of the Betty Crocker cook book. Sorry, but...

and no one is going to start "helping you" out on this. Sounds like a nice entrapment/conspiracy bullshit setup kinda thing. Just saying.

[Papa Verine]

Hey Zedhex, I don't underestimate the underground chemist, really. I've seen things I couldn't believe in broken down RV's near San Fran. (R.I.P. Noah)

Good luck with your work! I'm glad to hear you're not in the U.S.

[U4Euhhhhh...]

question... are there any really negitive side effects of fentanyl? SWIM has been on 30mg oxycodones for a year and considering asking for a switch to fentanyl...could some advise if switching to fent is a better way to go for pain/euphoria? If so, should I go for the 800mcg lollipops or do they make 1600mcg too? Please advise. Much thanks.

[SpecialGuy69]

question... are there any really negitive side effects of fentanyl? SWIM has been on 30mg oxycodones for a year and considering asking for a switch to fentanyl...could some advise if switching to fent is a better way to go for pain/euphoria? If so, should I go for the 800mcg lollipops or do they make 1600mcg too? Please advise. Much thanks.hey bro- wrong place to ask these questions. In the future, use the search engine first, then, if you cant find the answer that way, post your question as a thread in the proper forum. It's no more difficult than replying to someone else's thread. I decided to be nice to noobs from now on, so here you go:

Fent by itself doesn't have toxic metabolites or anything (as far as I know). If you use the gel from patches in any way besides as prescribed, there's lots of anecdotal evidence of very bad side effects. But not fent alone, as in patches as prescribed, actiq lollipops, or fentora losenges. It's a pretty safe chemical from a toxicity standpoint, but it is active in very small doses, so you have to be careful if you are not using fent as directed.

They do make 1600 mcg pops, but that's a big step from OC 30's. Your doc is going to be reluctant to prescribe fent unless he's VERY cool.

Fent has much less euphoria than OC when used as directed, but nice pain control. Basically, you are going to have to risk the negative side effects to get a rush from fent, but the rush from smoking the gel from patches is huge (I've heard, never had the pleasure)

I hope that helps. In the future, utmfse, then post thread in proper forum.

[Chemical_Boy]

I spent several years trying until I came to the conclusion Oxy stated above. I tried to make everything when I was younger. I perfected some extractions and simple synths. but I gave up on trying to make Fentalny analogs. Piperidones are definately being watched and regulated as precursor chemicals.

My long story short...Grow your own poppies and settle for morphime extraction. That, you should be able to pull off.

Not to mention that morphine/opium type opies have a more euphoric buzz. At least to me. Haven't tried smoking or running fent though, so I guess I'll shut the fuck up now;)

[OxyContinuously]

ok, so it's not easy - but thats never stopped me before. I live in Asia anyway, so I don't have to worry about the US thought police tracking me down. I can get the chems I need without any hassles. What I do need is someone with a little more experience than I to tell me exactly how I go from Piperidone and Phenethyl-Bromide to N-Phenethyl-Piperidone (NPP).

Can anyone help?


Listen, I am not trying to be an asshole, but let go of this. You cannot "go from piperidone and phenethyl bromide to n phenethyl piperidone in your house. I am tellin you that you need sophisticated laboratory equipment. For example, do you have a vacuum pump at your house to strip poisonous solvent off of the intermediary? Do you have a chromatograph to make sure you didn't create a toxin as an intermediary/final product? I am just going to lay down the correct synthesis for you as an example to why you shouldn't try this. Okay. Let's say you somehow magically acquire 4-piperidinone. To go to NPP, the most basic precursor, you must react this with phenethyl bromide (not available and a watched substance to boot) and C6H5NH2 (aminobenzene- where would you get this?) Then, you would have to do a reduction of this intermediary with sodium borohydride, to give 4-anilino-N-phenethyl-piperidine. The last reaction, assuming you got this far (and lived to tell about it without inhaling noxious lung damaging vapor or destroying your reflux by keeping the temp, 1 degree above or below what it shoud be) reacts this with propionic anhydride. Ever tried finding an anhydride? You're not going to. I don't want to rain on your parade, but Fent synthesis should and can only be performed successfully in a fully equipped organic lab with the proper equipment. Forget about it, it's a pipe dream. This should clear this up once and for all.

And this is information; there is no way in hell I am going to give measurements and such; that would be dumb. I know this personally, but I am sure the Web has the same explanation somewhere. There are only a couple ways to synthesize this properly. And this is only information even if you got everything I mentioned in the post, there would be no way in HELL you would be able to make this.

[jacky]

the DEA has powers that cross most borders now. we live in a different world than say,...6 years ago.

the DEA has prosecuted people from all over the world recently, most countrys oblige.

I dont know much about fent. synth, but it would attract alot of attention, and you would be made an example of big time. like these people in mexico, that were connected to these fent. overdoses in chicago...something like 20 some people OD'd on that stuff, cause they dont know how to mix the shit down right. the mexican government let the dea take em away, and at the same time busted a few pharmacies in mexico to boot.

I consider the DEA an international police force, a fucking gang, and they dont have to play fair, they dont even have to press charges to tear all your shit down, and take everything, they use this tactic to fuck people without having to do anything right

I know that asia can be a great place to produce illicit drugs, but also they have some tough laws in some countrys. I could see a stiff death penalty waiting for someone trying to synth this chemical.

how about this? if codeine is otc in your country, why dont you try and synth m to heroin? much better material in my opinion.

fent. is great stuff dont get me wrong, but I dont think it is better than m. plus if you fuck up fent synth....you just might produce that compound we all have heard of, that causes instantaneous parkinsons.

I would like to see someone turn the kappa opioid agonist menthol, into a mu active agonist. just think, if menthol was a precursor to a drug that was only as potent as codeine, you would still be stoked.

be careful and good luck. and if you are succesful, dont incriminate yourself here...this website is not what I would call secure. even the private message board is not secure.

[Dilaudid]

Hello opiophiles,

Fentanyl synthesis is prety straightforward exept for the small scale PTC part, the principal danger here is poisoning and die by respiratory depression.

Jacky fentanyl didn't produce parkinson inducing derivatives like MPPP (1-methyl 4-phenyl 4-propionoxypiperidine) a meperidine analog.
MPTP (1-methyl 4-phenyl 1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine) can be produced in MPPP synthesis.
MPTP is metabolized into MPP+ byMonoAmineOxydase B, which kills neurons in a part of the brain called the substancia nigra.
MPP+ interferes with mitochondrial metabolism which leads to cell death and causes the buildup of free radicals, toxic molecules that contribute further to chain cell destruction.

[devilsdrug]

what a crock of horse shit

[jacky]

ahhhh, now I see,
I read a bogus news report in which the author must have slipped and reported mppp as being a type of fentanyl...

thanks for the clear up...
so mppp is similiar to merepidine.
interesting.

fentanyl is not a real great opioid in my experience, strong as a sleepy sedative like material, but not my favorite. I would rather have something else really.

there are plenty of plants that produce reticuline....perhaps a good project would be to extract reticuline from loads of peumus boldus leaf, sell the essential oils for soapmaking, and take that reticuline and feed it to tobacco plants. the tobacco plants biosynthetic pathways will turn reticuline into morphine the same way the compound is produced in mammilain tissues and the poppy plant. then all you have to do is extract and seperate the alkaloids.
just leave 1 milligrams nicotine per 100 milligrams of morphine for better effect.

maybe you could look at some other compounds....like the mu agonist that is being made from salvinorin a now....there is a name for it even, and one paper explaining the synthesis route. I know how to produce isolated salvinorins from salvia divinorum.

or how about playing around with the mild opioids found in picralima nitida...we can get those extracted for cheap enough...I believe they are know as the aukkuamine type of alkaloids. not too potent in their natural form, but perhaps there is some magic to be found out there.

also, I am looking now for a type of fungus, that contains a very potent ckk inhibitor, that might potentiate opiates like proglumide does.

and there is another fungus that can biosynthesize thebaine into oxy...

this weekend I am FINALLY going to investigate mesaconitine's opioid effect. particularly I am going to use it to try and potentiate morphine/codeine, and hopefully notice a tolerance reducing effect.
the preperation takes awhile, boiling the prepared roots for 2 hours, and reducing to a small dose amount.
I am told to expect sedative effects.
if it works it will not be an expensive material, the preperation is the worst part of the deal.....it smells like you are boiling sewage.
a 1/4 pound can produce 15 or so full doses.


good luck with the fent. dreams, it is not a bad thing to want, but I wonder how damn scary it would be to work with that material.

i remember when an opiophile ordered a research peptide and shot it up. only took micrograms, and he reported a strong as hell reaction, with no legs though.
well, we did research, and found an even more potent version of the peptide, that was designed to resist enzyme destruction for up to eight hours. 25 milligrams wouldve might have been hundreds of doses.
then we realized if we came upon something that cheap and easy to order, that was really that potent, why the hell would we want to share that pot of gold.?
so we decided to keep our mouths shut...end of story...ha ha.

if you do get the fent up and running, be careful...wear gloves and a vapor mask.....

[robojunkie]

Yeah, that MPPP stuff looks just like demerol (the structure) with the ester "reversed" and some very uncareful fucker heated to high, lost the ester and the alcohol dedydrated to MPTP (N-Methyl Para-phenyl TetrahydroPyridine) which the body oxidizes to the MPP+ ion. That's what fried the brains of the unlucky (that's a fucking understatement) fuckers that got that shit. Its dopamine receptor destroying effects can actually be prevented if a person realizes fairly soon that they were hit with that shit. Forget the name of the drug. I guess there really is one thing a hell of a lot worse that getting beat while sick with your last 10 bucks! I can't imagine that shit...waking up sick in WDs unable to move or communicate, just sick, paralyzed and still able to feel your body. I'm not sure of its related to that but don't most demerol analogues (diphenoxylate, demerol itself, etc.) have some neurotoxicity?

[Heroine]

I spent several years trying until I came to the conclusion Oxy stated above. I tried to make everything when I was younger. I perfected some extractions and simple synths. but I gave up on trying to make Fentalny analogs. Piperidones are definately being watched and regulated as precursor chemicals.

My long story short...Grow your own poppies and settle for morphime extraction. That, you should be able to pull off.


Amen to both Papa Ver & OxyC-you cannot synthesize this so get the idea outta your head, kitchen chemists!

[superman]

just leave 1 milligrams nicotine per 100 milligrams of morphine for better effect.

fortunately this would be more hassle then it's worth. this is because morphine will be isolated during the extraction process due to it's formation of a salt in alkaline solution.

actually, if what you propose is feasable, and the yeild is good, this would be a very easy extraction given that tobacco is easy to grind up and extract from

[Dilaudid]

Hello Jacky,


fentanyl is not a real great opioid in my experience, strong as a sleepy sedative like material, but not my favorite. I would rather have something else really.


That's true fentanyl is very sedating, like methadone, dextromoramide and LAAM.
I prefer hydromorphone.


there are plenty of plants that produce reticuline....perhaps a good project would be to extract reticuline from loads of peumus boldus leaf, sell the essential oils for soapmaking, and take that reticuline and feed it to tobacco plants. the tobacco plants biosynthetic pathways will turn reticuline into morphine the same way the compound is produced in mammilain tissues and the poppy plant. then all you have to do is extract and seperate the alkaloids.
just leave 1 milligrams nicotine per 100 milligrams of morphine for better effect.

maybe you could look at some other compounds....like the mu agonist that is being made from salvinorin a now....there is a name for it even, and one paper explaining the synthesis route. I know how to produce isolated salvinorins from salvia divinorum.

or how about playing around with the mild opioids found in picralima nitida...we can get those extracted for cheap enough...I believe they are know as the aukkuamine type of alkaloids. not too potent in their natural form, but perhaps there is some magic to be found out there.

also, I am looking now for a type of fungus, that contains a very potent ckk inhibitor, that might potentiate opiates like proglumide does.

and there is another fungus that can biosynthesize thebaine into oxy...

this weekend I am FINALLY going to investigate mesaconitine's opioid effect. particularly I am going to use it to try and potentiate morphine/codeine, and hopefully notice a tolerance reducing effect.
the preperation takes awhile, boiling the prepared roots for 2 hours, and reducing to a small dose amount.
I am told to expect sedative effects.
if it works it will not be an expensive material, the preperation is the worst part of the deal.....it smells like you are boiling sewage.
a 1/4 pound can produce 15 or so full doses.


Yes, vegetal world is full of goodies, you can also synthetise hydromorphone from morphine with Pseduomonas putida M10 (works with codeine too), make ephedrine from cheap benzaldehyde (bitter almonds essential oil) and brewer yeast...


good luck with the fent. dreams, it is not a bad thing to want, but I wonder how damn scary it would be to work with that material.

i remember when an opiophile ordered a research peptide and shot it up. only took micrograms, and he reported a strong as hell reaction, with no legs though.
well, we did research, and found an even more potent version of the peptide, that was designed to resist enzyme destruction for up to eight hours. 25 milligrams wouldve might have been hundreds of doses.
then we realized if we came upon something that cheap and easy to order, that was really that potent, why the hell would we want to share that pot of gold.?
so we decided to keep our mouths shut...end of story...ha ha.

if you do get the fent up and running, be careful...wear gloves and a vapor mask.....

Are you talking of dermorphine and it's derivatives?
There are plenty of opioids peptides with mu, delta and kappa agonist activities and many other who act as enkephalinase inhibitors...
But peptides have a drawback somewhat difficult to synthetise and they are pretty fragile molecules.

[chemchem]

Pretty good discussion. I'm interested in using the fungus and bacteria. Can you actually order those? I mean you would need an incubator but then its pretty easy from there to start converting alkaloids.

First, I dont think your going to get toxic chemicals from keeping the rxn one degree above or below....

To slightly answer the actual question:
You can get phenethyl tosylate from phenethyl alcohol reacted with p-toulenesulfonic acid. The solvent, acetonitrile, might be hard to get. Using polyethylene glycol-400 as the PTC catalyst shoudlnt be too hard.
Sodium borohydride should come up with a decent amount of looking, especially in asia.

Now, since you did say to call you a dumbass for not knowing what an SN2 is... It would be very hard to perform this reaction at home. I feel it would be do-able if you prepared for it and set up a make-shift lab, you wouldnt be able to just use your kitchen without any prep.

I have been looking into making fent for awhile, now that the piperidone and aniline is available I just may look harder.

I do have one question, is an active compound made if one uses acetic anhydride instead? I know its a decent amount of carbon cut off but it is extremely hard to get anhyrides, or even the chlorides.

Also, I didnt look too hard at the reactions but can anyone tell me what toxic chems are produced? It just seems like everyone says "dont do it" but I've realized if someone wants to do something, they generally will so its best to educate them about the harms.

[robojunkie]

Nootropic supplement, types of airplane glue, white paint, chlorine, hot fuckin oven and a "pipe bomb", (or skywriter's "ink"), cleaner/stripper, wiper fluid, muriatic acid, copper pipes, acetic acid, carbonate, nitric acid, a fuckload of distillations, starter fluid, more distillations, and a shitload of meth to carry one through the seven days of work to clean all this shit up in the tent/vented hood and then about three more days to do three steps to NPP.

Believe it, but I ain't gonna say no more, cause its just to fuckin' easy if you know precisely what the fuck you are doing. Notice I didn't list the actual chems involved, but none are watched in this form and furthermore one could go the whole route without ever touching a watched chem allt he way to fent with the exception of propionyl chloride, but I have some ideas on that. BTW, I haven't done this this way but I could at any moment if I wanted to. I just need a long break from life threatening tolerances is all. Believe this fent is the ultimate underground synthetic, it just takes someone like me (sorry not trying to be an egotistical prick, just the facts) to come up with it. It's now been come up with and "proven" time and time again. By proven I of course am only referring to a unique patented supercomputer that runs reactions with programs for every molecule involved in the reaction. Hahaha!

Oh yeah I don't list the specifics cause I don't want fucking profiteers with access to go on voluntary manslaughter advertising sprees with my synthetic methodology. And this particular series of reactions is not that dangerous, the most toxic thing generated is fentanyl at the end. I was a mess in the lab and often spilled shit on my ungloved hands (other reactions of course) and never got hurt though I wouldn't recommend being careless with the propionylation step. The key to this stuff being done safely (from the dea and shit I mean) were one to go through with this stuff is avoiding the cliche precursors like phenethyl bromide and piperidone. These'll just land your ass in a fed prison, one must be creative, and adapt and survive, putting all of one's creativity and faculties towards their work, and never ever giving up on t he dream even if one encounters failure, even double failures, often the third time is the charm, haha!