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Badly Drawn Girl
11-18-2006, 01:55 PM
I'm sure this has been asked but after a quick search I didn't come up with anything. I don't have time to search any further. Can MJ help with wd's? I'm in a bit of a bind this weekend. I get my script on Monday. I have pills to barely get me through today and should start to feel badly later this evening/early morning. I have some Sub's but need to wait long enough before I start those up and would prefer to not use them at all since I'll have my meds on Monday. I rarely smoke weed. Like maybe 3 times a year and I'm a total lightweight. Today is my friend's b-day party and I want to be feeling good during this time. I know that MJ makes me feel even more painfree when used in conjuction with an opiate but I've never used it alone. Anyone have any experiences with this? This stuff is super stronger. I had two tokes yesterday and was toasted for 4 hours. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

alowishus
11-18-2006, 02:34 PM
Ya it helped me to a degree, I mean, it's not gonna help w/ the physical symptoms too much. But it does help time go by and get your mind off it/sleep some.
Try imodium w/ it also.

nick
11-18-2006, 02:46 PM
Weed helps some people during parts of wd.Personally I find it a miracle.I could even eat a little food when stoned.Viva weed.

Sitar
11-19-2006, 01:09 PM
This has been discussed before. Some people swear by it and some people can't use it for WD.

I'm one of those that can't tolerate it in WD. I think it makes WD worse because it makes me MORE aware of how awful I'm feeling and it makes time go by even slower. Not good when you're feeling like shit and wanting time to go by quicker.

It also makes me even more emotional and introspective, which is bad news in WD. I get horribly introspective in a very negative way during WD, and pot amplifies this intensely to the point of a panic attack.

I used to think that alcohol was a bad idea for WD, but I'm actually a recent convert in that regard. But you have to go easy on it or you'll wind up feeling worse later.

kyuss
11-19-2006, 01:39 PM
I'm one of those that can't tolerate it in WD. I think it makes WD worse because it makes me MORE aware of how awful I'm feeling and it makes time go by even slower. Not good when you're feeling like shit and wanting time to go by quicker.

It also makes me even more emotional and introspective, which is bad news in WD. I get horribly introspective in a very negative way during WD, and pot amplifies this intensely to the point of a panic attack.




I concur.

Papa Verine
11-19-2006, 01:40 PM
I'm with Sitar on this one. Smoking cannabis makes the experience worse for me. I guess what you're going to find out by asking is that everybody's different and you just have to find out for yourself. If you have any benzodiazepenes (valium, xanx, klonopin) I think the consenus would be that they are helpful.

nick
11-19-2006, 03:30 PM
A very wise and long-time opiophile told me his secret mix for kicking was....

1. MJ
2. Xanax
3. Kpins
4. Neurotin
5. Flexeril

Still sucks but supposedly those 5 are the "essentials" for a good kick (that's an oxymoron though, right?) :D
I smoked a lot of weed at the start and end of my wds.Plus I took a load of temazapam.I guess they helped take my mind off the fact that I wanted to shoot myself in the head.

Badly Drawn Girl
11-19-2006, 10:10 PM
A very wise and long-time opiophile told me his secret mix for kicking was....

1. MJ
2. Xanax
3. Kpins
4. Neurotin
5. Flexeril

Still sucks but supposedly those 5 are the "essentials" for a good kick (that's an oxymoron though, right?) :D

Thanks for all the responses. I had MJ, Neurontin, and Soma's (better than Flexeril's in my opinion) and I felt great. I couldn't believe it. I took my last Oxy (20mg) at 5 pm, and had no WD symptoms. I took another Oxy (20 mg) the next night. So I went 26 hours on just that one pill. Normally I would have been feeling bad within 7 hours. I woke up this morning and I hurt but I smoked some more mj, and was fine again.

I've used alcohol once and I'm too scared to ever try again. It made the pain worse, I felt out of control, and emotional and I had absolutely no sleep. It's nice to know that I now have a back-up plan.

Paregoric Kid
11-20-2006, 05:44 AM
I personally find it to be a lifesaver during wd. there are a few studies that show marijuana to be helpful at alleviating withdrawal symptoms. "Lichtmann et al. (2001) have shown that there seems to be a reciprocal relationship between the cannabinoid and opioid system relative to dependency. THC was able to block some of the withdrawal symptoms in morphine dependent mice,"
here are some studies: Opioid and cannabinoid modulation of precipitated withdrawal in delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol and morphine-dependent mice. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 2001p;298(3):1007-14.
Attenuation of precipitated abstinence in methadone-dependent rats by delta 9-THC.
Endogenous cannabinoid, 2-arachidonoylglycerol, attenuates naloxone-precipitated withdrawal signs in morphine-dependent mice.
Low efficacy of non-opioid drugs in opioid withdrawal symptoms.

there are other studies that show THC and other chemicals in cannabis to bind at the mu opioid receptor.
here are some studies: Cannabidiol is an allosteric modulator at mu- and delta-opioid receptors.
Cannabinoid agonists but not inhibitors of endogenous cannabinoid transport or metabolism enhance the reinforcing efficacy of heroin in rats.
Involvement of mu-, delta- and kappa-opioid receptor subtypes in the discriminative-stimulus effects of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in rats.
Repeated administration with Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol regulates mu-opioid receptor density in the rat brain.
Involvement of the opioid system in the anxiolytic-like effects induced by Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol.
Motivational effects of cannabinoids are mediated by mu-opioid and kappa-opioid receptors.
Enhancement mu opioid antinociception by oral delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol: dose-response analysis and receptor identification.

vaxn8
11-20-2006, 05:48 AM
PK- I actually know or should say knew the guy who you referenced above! I didn't actually check the specific cite, but if it was A. Licht- i knew him, pretty freaky!

This is a really interesting question, and a related one I think would also help answer this. I don't like during w/d, but i don't like anything other than an opiate. I also just don't like MJ to start with. I would ask, does anyone like it normally but hate it during withdrawal? It seems most people who don't like it to begin with don't like it during w/d, but i'm wondering if the reverse is also true???

devilsdrug
11-20-2006, 07:13 AM
i gotts to have it then again wds whats that , i dont plan on ever gettiln that luvin feelin again unless by choice and why would i choose that

nick
11-20-2006, 07:20 AM
Hey DD don't tempt fate.
Re dope and wd.I love dope and the only part of wd it doesn't work for me is the intense physical bit,about 48-72 hours in.At that stage as Vax says the only things that will help are time or junk.

devilsdrug
11-20-2006, 07:30 AM
nick thats why i keep 6 months of powder out there and then theres those 123 patches i have access to u chose to quit the full bore deal , which i admire ur balls for doin , but i see no reason why i would quit or want to , i spent a lot of years halfassed usin a little of this or a little of that and bein in pain , no mas

nick
11-20-2006, 07:39 AM
Good luck to you DD,it wasn't any kind of moral bullshit I was hitting you with.It's just sometimes,as I'm sure you know,a junkies best laid plans go awry,but I know you know what your doing.

CUBErt
11-20-2006, 01:17 PM
MJ helps me alot with mental cravings, just kinda get stoned and forget. Hence, what I have been doing all week and I'll say very effective

theobarbital
11-20-2006, 01:44 PM
when i'm in wd i smoke green out the door. i usually buy a 1/4 of hydro and try to sedate myself to shit, benzos get you over wds alot less painful.. strong kratom does too.

but smoking does get your mind off it a bit, i've noticed when i smoke and i'm not on my methadone i get agitated and restless. sometimes its hard to differentiate between being sick and being stoned with the mental aspect.

Badly Drawn Girl
11-20-2006, 04:24 PM
This is a really interesting question, and a related one I think would also help answer this. I don't like during w/d, but i don't like anything other than an opiate. I also just don't like MJ to start with. I would ask, does anyone like it normally but hate it during withdrawal? It seems most people who don't like it to begin with don't like it during w/d, but i'm wondering if the reverse is also true???

I'm apparently the opposite. I don't normally like MJ. It makes me lethargic and hungry. I've never understood the appeal. The only time I ever used it regularly was during a bad period in my life when my insomnia was out of control. I found out that one toke was enough to get me to sleep. Other than that, I smoke it maybe twice a year. But I found that during WD's it didn't cause that same overwhelming sleepy feeling.

trainwrecker
11-29-2006, 11:11 PM
I normally am a daily smoker, have been for alot of years now. I don't think I could handle w/d's as "well" as I do without weed. Thats kind of why I got on methadone in the first place, I was spending all my money on heroin and couldn't afford the weed I had always loved. And the methadone is free. Gotta love state funded dope.

Paregoric Kid
12-03-2006, 02:06 AM
I think instead of handing out clonidine some pharm. company should do trials on marinol as a drug that could be given to addicts in withdrawal.
it may even be possible to get medical marijuana for this reason in certain states? I'm not sure.
one more thing, you can definitly eat more while in wd when using weed.

trainwrecker
12-03-2006, 04:13 PM
Marinol sucks though, it contains only THC. Marijuana contains many other cannibanoids that make us feel 'high' that marinol does not. In California it is possible to get medical marijuana for this reason, unfortunatly in Washington it is not.

Paregoric Kid
12-03-2006, 08:42 PM
you're missing the point, there are studies that show thc helps alleviate some or most of the withdrawal symptoms and it could be a useful tool in places where medical marijuana is not legal. there are other synthetic cannabinoids too. you may not get stoned off of it but it would likely decrease wd symptoms and increase appetite, something clonidine and benzos and lots of the other shit docs script to people coming off of opiates don't really do.

Seedy
12-03-2006, 11:59 PM
BDG, I fell into this camp too. Well, did. However, now I kind of like it. Before in college, I wondered how or why ppl would use it, esp daily, but mixed w/kratom (and the crappy norco, in case anyone missed it, b/c I feel like all 3 played very nicely together) and it was absolutely euphoric.

That is from a mj novice or non-user, however that may be changing....

I been reading erowid trip reports and it seems kratom and weed is the magic synergistic combo. I imagine that would make for some pretty bareable WD's. Throw in some benzos and life wouidbe pretty peachy.

OxyContinuously
12-04-2006, 08:51 AM
I like weed by itself, but when sick, I find that it helps a lot. it definitely relaxes those stiff muscles, puts a brighter tint on the mood, and gives you that heavy, relaxed feeling of lethargy in which you are able to take your mind off your current situation, if even just for a little while. i would definitely not like going through WD without it. it has helped me many times in the past, and if you have a valium or two to go with it, then all the better.

madnesscult
12-04-2006, 06:18 PM
I've found that alcohol is a million times more helpful for withdrawls than marijuana. When I was younger I used to smoke all the time and loved the stuff, but I got on probation and had to stop. Since then, I haven't really enjoyed being stoned at all. Now, when I smoke, I just want to pass out, whereas before I actually enjoyed the feeling and actually could do things when high (though I wish it allowed me to sleep when sick!).

nick
12-04-2006, 06:32 PM
The problem with taking alcohol during wd is your hangover.
p.s.Is Marinol like Sativex?

Paregoric Kid
12-04-2006, 07:09 PM
sativex is similar except it is delivered in a spray that is inhaled and it contains thc and cannabidiol (CBD).
alcohol is terrible and most people I've known that tried to kick using alcohol turned into drunks. better to be addicted to opiates than a drunk.

Paregoric Kid
12-16-2006, 04:09 PM
from gw pharm makers of sativex:
In contrast to contemporary concerns that cannabis itself may have addictive potential, Indian hemp was used in the 19th century to treat dependencies on other substances. O'Shaughnessy observed benefit of cannabis extracts for delirium tremens in alcoholics (1), Clendinning shortly thereafter in morphine withdrawal (2), and Mattison in cocaine and chloral hydrate addiction (3). In fact, in an early 20th century text on addiction, the only mentions of cannabis were in relation to its therapeutic benefits (4). The LaGuardia Commission Report (5) contained an account of a group of 56 morphine and heroin addicts. Those who were cannabis-treated had less severe withdrawal symptoms and left the hospital earlier and in better shape than those receiving standard therapy.
Modern anecdotal support for utilisation of cannabis for addiction withdrawal continues to accrue (6-8). A formal study in Brazil (9) demonstrated that 17/25 subjects (68%) were successful in abrogating �crack' cocaine habits over the course of nine months through the use of cannabis, and claimed it able to allay cravings and induce other subjective benefits. Dreher in Jamaica has documented cannabis as the most effective treatment in stopping crack cocaine use in 33 women (10).
Cannabinoid interactions with the dopamine system have been offered as a possible mechanism for some of the beneficial effects of cannabis in opiate withdrawal (11). A recent study provides objective evidence of the ability of THC to mitigate opiate-withdrawal symptoms, and block the formation of physical dependency (12). Clinical trials of cannabis based medicine extracts in the treatment of opiate addiction seem amply justified.
References
1. O'Shaughnessy WB. On the preparations of the Indian hemp, or gunjah (Cannabis indica) ; Their effects on the animal system in health, and their utility in the treatment of tetanus and other convulsive diseases. Transactions of the Medical and Physical Society of Bengal 1838-1840:71-102, 421-461.
2. Clendinning J. Observation on the medicinal properties of Cannabis sativa of India. Medico-Chirurgical Transactions 1843;26:188-210.
3. Mattison JB. Cannabis indica as an anodyne and hypnotic. St. Louis Medical and Surgical Journal 1891;61:265-271.
4. Crothers TD. Morphinism and narcomanias from other drugs: Their etiology, treatment, and medicolegal relations. Philadelphia: Saunders; 1902.
5. New York (N.Y.). Mayor's committee on marihuana., Wallace GB, Cunningham EV. The marihuana problem in the city of New York; sociological, medical, psychological and pharmacological studies. Lancaster, Pa.,: The Jaques Cattell press; 1944.
6. Mikuriya TH. Cannabis as a substitute for alcohol: a harm-reduction approach,. Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics 2004;4(1):(in press).
7. Mikuriya TH. Cannabis substitution. An adjunctive therapeutic tool in the treatment of alcoholism. Med Times 1970;98(4):187-91.
8. Grinspoon L, Bakalar JB. Marihuana, the forbidden medicine. Rev. and exp. ed. New Haven: Yale University Press; 1997.
9. Labigalini E, Jr., Rodrigues LR, Da Silveira DX. Therapeutic use of cannabis by crack addicts in Brazil. J Psychoactive Drugs 1999;31(4):451-5.
10. Dreher M. Crack heads and roots daughters: The therapeutic use of cannabis in Jamaica. Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics 2002;2(3-4):121-133.
11. French ED, Dillon K, Wu X. Cannabinoids excite dopamine neurons in the ventral tegmentum and substantia nigra. Neuroreport 1997;8(3):649-52.
12. Cichewicz DL, McCarthy EA. Antinociceptive synergy between delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol and opioids after oral administration. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 2003;304(3):1010-5.

Dilaudid
12-16-2006, 05:13 PM
Hello opiophiles,

If you want to use MJ in WD's choose an Indica strain (well matured) rich in THC with CBD and CBN, Sativa contain THC, THC-V can make you more aware of your WD and you can also become paranoid.
An good indica like Soma A+, Afghani, Hash plant, black domina... with a good benzo can definitely help some people going trough WD.
Some other people must avoid MJ because they are anxious on it (it add or worsen an unpleasant condition).
Trial and error...

BTW good post Paregoric kid.

cracksinthepavement
01-13-2007, 07:28 AM
Hello opiophiles,

If you want to use MJ in WD's choose an Indica strain (well matured) rich in THC with CBD and CBN, Sativa contain THC, THC-V can make you more aware of your WD and you can also become paranoid.
An good indica like Soma A+, Afghani, Hash plant, black domina... with a good benzo can definitely help some people going trough WD.
Some other people must avoid MJ because they are anxious on it (it add or worsen an unpleasant condition).
Trial and error...

BTW good post Paregoric kid.

This guy knows his marijuana.

Indica strains (most commercial bud is a mix of indica/sativa, since indica is fast growing). Indica gives you the carefree "couchlock" high, and it DOES help with pain. Sativa is famous for its "up" high, but it takes as long as 14 weeks to harvest (from light flip to finish) where most indica will reach the same weight and maturity at 8 weeks.

If you are lucky enough to actually pick your strain, some of the best indica dominant varieties for this sort of situation are: northern lights, blueberry, blueberry-haze (excellent cross breed, the best of indica and a nice kick of sativa), ak47.

HERE is my recipe for manageable wd's: a chunk of homemade hash, some klonopin, a little codeine/tramadol, and loperamide. Hash is the way to go if you can get it. I smoke it the same way I smoke opium and the ritual alone is enough to make me feel a little better.