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OCD
01-21-2013, 12:46 PM
I noticed on the web site that has the $0 copay voucher for the pharmacy that it includes strengths of 12mg and 4mg now as well. I haven't actually seen any yet, but it looks like they're right around the corner. I wish people understood that there are actually very few people that need 8mg of sub a day, let alone 12mg. I can just see doctors now prescribing 3 12mg sub a day. Should be fun...

http://formularyjournal.modernmedicine.com/news/fda-approves-2-new-dosage-strengths-suboxone

HydroMoreFound
01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
It would be nice if they would make some really low dose ones, like .5 mg. They would make it a lot easier for people who are tapering to measure out their doses.

Don't the pharmaceutical companies want people to be able to get off of their expensive drugs?

FACE
01-21-2013, 12:53 PM
Agreed, but I sure as shit wouldn't mind being prescribed 12mg pills. In three months I'd have enough reserve to tell the doctor to go fuck himself.

I just did a superficial google and it appears that other countries have pills at .4mg but it seems those aren't available in this great country. I guess there is much more potential for a perpetually returning customer if all of us just listen to Dr. who reads to us from a script then prescribes 24/mg and don't play with the doses. Just another reminder of why I'm so glad I found this website.

OCD
01-21-2013, 12:53 PM
Don't the pharmaceutical companies want people to be able to get off of their expensive drugs?

You said it. Exactly, no way they make it any easier to get off the orange handcuffs. Couldn't agree more.

limitless_euphoria
01-23-2013, 09:15 AM
That's a very interesting find OCD.

On the one hand, that could be a useful idea, but on the other, sounds like they're willing to do anything to keep their product from going generic. Remember how the strips came RIGHT out within a month or two of buprenorphine going generic? I don't know, the strips are OK, you do get a little better absorption, I HATE the orange taste! Why can't they offer it in mint or some other flavor?

A 4 mg strip sounds like a good way to taper though. Then you could cut it into 1/4 pieces (1 mg each) and then go down to the 2 mg strips and cut it into 1/4 pieces and get down to 0.5 mg.

I was told the least painful way to ditch the subs is a LONG taper with a dose ending in ~0.25 mg maybe every 36 hours.

Personally, I'm a cynic and I think it's just more of their greed because say those come out in 2013. That gives them until 2020 before they have to let another company make generics. How long until the film strip patent expires? I'm guessing at least 4-5 years but I could be wrong.

By the way, not really an off-topic question, but have sub docs in the past few years really pushed hard for all of their patients to go on the sub strips? I remember reading that one state INSISTED upon them for the Medicaid population. You'd THINK they'd want to save the money on the cost of the Rx but then again maybe since they can track them easier (with the info on the wrapper) and the generics don't have the naloxone that's why they chose to do that.

TheSauce
01-23-2013, 09:34 AM
I noticed on the web site that has the $0 copay voucher for the pharmacy that it includes strengths of 12mg and 4mg now as well. I haven't actually seen any yet, but it looks like they're right around the corner. I wish people understood that there are actually very few people that need 8mg of sub a day, let alone 12mg. I can just see doctors now prescribing 3 12mg sub a day. Should be fun...

http://formularyjournal.modernmedicine.com/news/fda-approves-2-new-dosage-strengths-suboxone

My ex is on 16mg per day. Absolutely ridiculous. I've had numerous discussions with her, actually one just last night, trying to make her understand how crazy it is for her to be taking such a high dose. Shit, if nothing else she could be taking half that and making a nice profit on the other 30 strips every month. Alas, she is stuborn in her ignorance, and takes every word of her obviously brain dead doctor as gold, and will not listen to me.
The worst part is the doctor is starting to talk about getting her off them, and from what I've heard so far he's going to do the process fairly quickly for what her dose is. She seems to believe it's going to be a somewhat painless process. I don't where this doctor got his education on bupe, but this fucker is going to be, or maybe already has been, putting some patients through some serious pain.

OCD
01-31-2013, 08:17 AM
Oh my how I have had that argument with people. They think everything their sub doctor says is right and that I'm not a doctor so I have no clue what I'm talking about, even though I have more 1st hand experience taking sub than any sub doctor I have ever met. There is nothing painless about coming off high dose (or low dose) sub quickly. It will be a long and painful process if you don't go REALLY slow. I know somebody that was prescribed 4 8mg sub a day for a 300mg of oxy a day habit!!! THAT IS INSANE!!!!! You could take 4 mg of sub a day and after 2 or 3 days be fine.

It kind of bothers me how little sub doctors know about suboxone. They have zero 1st hand experience with it obviously and most of their patients are probably lying to them about their progress anyway. I don't know what I'm getting at really.

Anyway, here is the packaging for the new film strengths. They should be in a pharmacy near you soon. ;)

http://i46.tinypic.com/20gchtl.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/34f1mjk.jpg

buc
01-31-2013, 08:25 AM
Dr. has me on two 8mg-2mg suboxone a day...........yuck.

J24
02-15-2013, 01:37 AM
I HATE the orange taste! Why can't they offer it in mint or some other flavor?

I completely agree with you on hating the flavor, and am glad the ROA I use avoids tasting it entirely.

Dr. McKay
02-15-2013, 09:28 AM
My wife is on subutex generics. She says they work way better on her pain than suboxone did.
It must be the lack of any nalaxone in the tabs. Plus the generics are super cheap. She only pay $3 each cash for each 8 mg tab.
She too gets overprescribed. The doc has her on 90 tabs a month and she easily gets by on 30 !
Shes building up a nice back up for when her doc decides to cut her off.
He does seem to like the idea of lifetime maintenece with the drug even though he has kind of reluctantly kept her on for the past 3 years at the same dose.

Every month she sees him he asks if she is ready to drop her dose. She politely says no not yet, and then he writes here her script for 90 tabs !

J24
02-15-2013, 09:05 PM
I don't think it's the lack of naloxone that makes it work better.

You have to remember that most formulations of Subutex are smaller pills than the 8mg Suboxones. This means a Subutex pill will likely dissolve quicker, releasing the entire dosage much quicker when compared to a Suboxone tablet.

Coop
04-10-2013, 03:02 PM
I have been on the new 12 mg subs for a couple moths now. my doctor has me on 2 a day which is crazy and before that it was 3 of the 8 mg a day. I dont actually take that much though but i have noticed my doctor over prescribes everyone.

The Ryan
04-10-2013, 03:29 PM
I've seen the 12mg ones around already.

nick
04-10-2013, 03:56 PM
Dr. has me on two 8mg-2mg suboxone a day...........yuck.

How's that dealing with your pain??

newParadigm
04-10-2013, 08:14 PM
Yep a friend saw these recently too...he claims that the 4mg are just twice the physical size of the 2's and that the 12mg's are 1.5x the size of the 8's...is this true? I mean it would make sense because then Reckitt Benckiser wouldn't have to make more than two strengths of the slurry they make the strips from...just make different physical sizes...

Snak
04-10-2013, 09:29 PM
I've gotten the 12mg ones a few times. I wouldn't say they're 1.5x bigger then the 8mg ones though. They're a tad bit thicker, but they're not longer. They're more squared then the 8mg ones.

...But damn it was rad to stretch 12mgs 2 weeks.

DeadCat
04-11-2013, 11:00 AM
"..............

Don't the pharmaceutical companies want people to be able to get off of their expensive drugs?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT's FUNNY!

K&S
04-11-2013, 10:49 PM
Damn I need to get those 4mg if they give you another co-pay voucher, mine just ran out. It makes no sense that my doc gives me 1/2 an 8mg per day if they have the fours out now. That's true about RB trying to keep the income flowing now...they're fucked. I'm so happy that the FTC got involved with the shit they were trying to pull when they're patent ran out.

Like what company calls for a ban of all other generics? Such a stupid, desperate move by RB.

The films suck anyway. Snorting them was nothing like it was with the pills. I wish my doc wasn't on the RB bandwagon so I could get the generics.

nodrover
04-12-2013, 03:54 AM
Damn I need to get those 4mg if they give you another co-pay voucher, mine just ran out. It makes no sense that my doc gives me 1/2 an 8mg per day if they have the fours out now. That's true about RB trying to keep the income flowing now...they're fucked. I'm so happy that the FTC got involved with the shit they were trying to pull when they're patent ran out.

Like what company calls for a ban of all other generics? Such a stupid, desperate move by RB.

The films suck anyway. Snorting them was nothing like it was with the pills. I wish my doc wasn't on the RB bandwagon so I could get the generics.

Just curious...do you get the film or tablets? I ask because if you get tablets, there is no logical reason why you COULDN'T be getting generic tablets. An insurance company would seriously questions an in-network doctor that scripts ONLY brand name when generics ARE AVAILABLE....

limitless_euphoria
04-12-2013, 07:56 AM
I noticed on the web site that has the $0 copay voucher for the pharmacy that it includes strengths of 12mg and 4mg now as well. I haven't actually seen any yet, but it looks like they're right around the corner. I wish people understood that there are actually very few people that need 8mg of sub a day, let alone 12mg. I can just see doctors now prescribing 3 12mg sub a day. Should be fun...

http://formularyjournal.modernmedicine.com/news/fda-approves-2-new-dosage-strengths-suboxone

Most people, in talking to other subbers, tend to have their doc over prescribe (I had 'em giving me 16 and I was doing 4 mg or less just to hoard those suckers) or users just don't see less is more. It blows the junkie's mind because I mean, c'mon, AA puts it best: one is too many and 1,000 is never enough. If 20 mg of oxy will make you feel "x" nice then 30 mg should make you feel "x+1" nice.

Not that there's a nice scale... but you have to remember, too, that sub docs got their degree by reading a textbook; they're not sampling the subs and a lot of them believe by way over prescribing (because they do know it) people can't break through. When I was on the full 16 mg I crushed an old-school oxy 80, railed the entire thing at once and had to sit there wondering if I was high. If you've got to wonder, well then, you ain't high.

srqmoviemaker
04-12-2013, 08:17 AM
I just got bumped down from two 8mg strips to three 4mg strips (yet I have like 100s pf the 8mg strips left lol)

Zoops
04-13-2013, 05:39 AM
OP, awesome thread. A lot of opiophiles brought up some real good insights into how the pharmaceutical companies try to market their wares.

I would have to check, but the patent prosecution on the Suboxone films had to be very nasty. Because film-based dosage forms had already been out for a couple years before they made buprenorphine strips.

How's this for a conspiracy:

RB reps come to the doctor and suggest dosages waaay higher than any junkie would need to maintain, knowing the excess will make it to the street and/or get passed around to other junkies, thereby creating a large pool of potential new customers for suboxone.

"Yeah my homeboy gave me a couple of dem strips, they is allright, yo. I'm gonna go see the doc and get my own scrip for 'em."

It's like a way for RB to get large amounts of "sample" out there, to convince junkies they need to be on it too. I mean, buprenorphine is an amazing drug for the opioid-dependent. I was on it for about 2 years, came off of kratom with it. When I quit taking it, I was drinking about a fifth of vodka plus beer in the morning before the ABC store opened - sickest I have ever been. I thought it was all the alcohol I was drinking. It didn't even occur to me that bupe would have severe WD symptoms. I guess I stayed so drunk/hungover that I didn't even notice it. Same thing happened once when I went about 2 weeks without subs, was on super-high dose ambien (~300mg/day) at that time. Didn't even notice feeling any WD's.

I think suboxone is going to be the endgame for me, when I finally can get some $ coming in from a new job I (hopefully) just got. They said we want to take you onboard pending a reference check. So, I gave them my old supervisor's name and another guy I worked with and the probably have called them by now. I can't imagine the references check coming out badly. Even called my old boss and he said "I'll be sure to give you a good review." And he's good people, so I know he did.

Yeah, I know replacing kratom with bupe is kind of stupid. Y'all were chastising that girl in the "Dangerous New Drug: Kratom" video for letting the doctor get her on subs to get off of kratom, but she was a comparative pussy insofar as drugs were concerned. I think if it's likely you might go back to heroin or hard Rx opiates, then bupe is a good idea, even if you are taking it to get off of kratom. That girl had neven even taken a Tylenol codeine tablet before. It wasn't necessary in her case, because she was not hardcore, like me. I am convinced there are some people who just get along with the world better if they have some opioid drug(s) on board.
All the shitty vibes with opioid dependency are not really caused by the drug itself. It's the stigma that society has attached to it, the money it takes to maintain, and stopping suddenly due to those factors that causes all the grief. If a junkie can get his daily dose, he's fine indefinitely.

bigNasty
04-14-2013, 11:12 AM
the 4 mg strips are a good bit bigger than the 8 mg strips too. You can easily cut them into .5mg doses

The Ryan
04-14-2013, 12:36 PM
the 4 mg strips are a good bit bigger than the 8 mg strips too. You can easily cut them into .5mg doses

Strange, the 8mg are the same width and height as the old 2mg strips, the 8mg are just a little wider.

K&S
04-29-2013, 07:29 AM
Just curious...do you get the film or tablets? I ask because if you get tablets, there is no logical reason why you COULDN'T be getting generic tablets. An insurance company would seriously questions an in-network doctor that scripts ONLY brand name when generics ARE AVAILABLE....

No, I only get the films and for free too. I know, I want the tabs so bad.

odd
04-29-2013, 11:56 AM
i would just like to know why subs stop working for people after a time. I have been going through hell trying to kick. i mean i have 2 unopened boxes of strips and a bottle with 60 8mg pills just laughing at me since they do jack shit