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entropy
01-12-2013, 04:08 PM
APOTEX fentanyl patches

i have been forced to wear these for the past couple weeks, and they are absolutely useless.


not only is the adhesive the worst i've ever dealt with (absolute garbage), the drug delivery mechanism is apparently greatly flawed or faulty because they stop working after less than 24 hours. after ~12 hours of applying a new one, i can feel some (slight) pain relief, but at 24 hours i begin to notice withdrawal symptoms beginning. after 36 hours, withdrawal is totally apparent and does not subside unless an IR medication is administered

if you are prescribed patches, make sure you do NOT get this brand. tell your pharmacy they're shit and you will not fill the prescription if the brand is apotex. if you fill a script for fentanyl patches, make sure you verify that the brand isn't apotex before you leave the counter so you don't accidentally walk out with these and get stuck with them. hopefully enough people will boycott this brand and pharmacies will stop carrying them altogether and/or apotex gets their shit straight and starts producing effective medicine

there has been a thread about these in the past, but in some instances a company will fix their product. these are still absolute shit. avoid at all costs.

a complete waste of time, money, and fentanyl

The Ryan
01-12-2013, 06:35 PM
Maybe the fent can be exteacted? Since they are that bad, but I'm sure they have the same amount of fent.

entropy
01-12-2013, 07:13 PM
Maybe the fent can be exteacted? Since they are that bad, but I'm sure they have the same amount of fent.

i am not convinced they have the proper amount of fent

i really believe that's the problem here, that there isn't a proper amount of fent in these patches, for whatever reason.

i'm sure the fent could be extracted but one would be much better off just avoiding these patches at all costs. they're "matrix" type and apparently nobody has had any success yet finding a way to abuse them. i'm sure some idiots smoke these patches but i'm not going to fuck up my lungs smoking this garbage to get a bit loaded off the tiny bit of fent they contain.

i use patches as prescribed generally (the good kind), but do cheek a bit now and then for a bit of an extra boost. i've tried cheeking an entire apotex patch and felt *nothing*

i really wouldn't care too much if the only "problem" was that they weren't abusable. these patches should, at the very least, keep the person wearing them well for 72 hours. they don't keep me well for even half that long, and the pain relief lasts half a day at best. the fact is that they don't work as they should, even when used as prescribed, and no company should be getting away with this

absolute SHIT

The Ryan
01-12-2013, 11:25 PM
i am not convinced they have the proper amount of fent

i really believe that's the problem here, that there isn't a proper amount of fent in these patches, for whatever reason.

i'm sure the fent could be extracted but one would be much better off just avoiding these patches at all costs. they're "matrix" type and apparently nobody has had any success yet finding a way to abuse them. i'm sure some idiots smoke these pRatches but i'm not going to fuck up my lungs smoking this garbage to get a lasts half a day at best. the fact is that they don't work as they should, even when used as prescribed, and no company should be getting away with this
by

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i am not convinced they have the proper amount of fent

i really believe that's the problem here, that there isn't a proper amount of fent in these patches, for whatever reason.

i'm sure the fent could be extracted but one would be much better off just avoiding these patches at all costs. they're "matrix" type and apparently nobody has had any success yet finding a way to abuse them. i'm sure some idiots smoke these patches but i'm not going to fuck up my lungs smoking this garbage to get a bit loaded off the tiny bit of fent they contain.

i use patches as prescribed generally (the good kind), but do cheek a bit now and then for a bit of an extra boost. i've tried cheeking an entire apotex patch and felt *nothing*

i really wouldn't care too much if the only "problem" was that they weren't abusable. these patches should, at the very least, keep the person wearing them well for 72 hours. they don't keep me well for even half that long, and the pain relief lasts half a day at best. the fact is that they don't work as they should, even when used as prescribed, and no company should be getting away with this

absolute SHIT

--- auto merge ---


i am not convinced they have the proper amount of fent

i really believe that's the problem here, that there isn't a proper amount of fent in these patches, for whatever reason.

i'm sure the fent could be extracted but one would be much better off just avoiding these patches at all costs. they're "matrix" type and apparently nobody has had any success yet finding a way to abuse them. i'm sure some idiots smoke these patches but i'm not going to fuck up my lungs smoking this garbage to get a bit loaded off the tiny bit of fent they contain.

i use patches as prescribed generally (the good kind), but do cheek a bit now and then for a bit of an extra boost. i've tried cheeking an entire apotex patch and felt *nothing*

i really wouldn't care too much if the only "problem" was that they weren't abusable. these patches should, at the very least, keep the person wearing them well for 72 hours. they don't keep me well for even half that long, and the pain relief lasts half a day at best. the fact is that they don't work as they should, even when used as prescribed, and no company should be getting away with this

absolute SHIT

entropy
01-13-2013, 05:32 AM
by

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huh?

duck
01-13-2013, 07:28 AM
Have you tried cheek'n em?

The Ryan
01-13-2013, 07:49 AM
huh?

That's what you get when you pass out drunk on top of the phone before even starting to write the post.

entropy
01-13-2013, 08:27 AM
Have you tried cheek'n em?

i tried cheeking an entire patch for hours and felt *nothing*

the adhesive is not like sandoz or mylan patches... it's more like a stretchable plastic polymer with some adhesive properties (albeit, very weak ones) as opposed to a true adhesive-fent admixture a la sandoz and mylan

if you've ever had the mallinckrodt patches (and i thought those sucked), the adhesive of the apotex brand is similar in that it's thick and clumps up, but it's a lot less sticky. apotex patches will not stick to the skin alone for more than a couple hours before falling off. the only way to get them to stay on is to use a tegaderm or a whole bunch of tape.

if you peel the sticky adhesive layer off the back of a mallinckrodt patch, you're left with an exposed layer of fent. in the apotex patches, the fent must already be inside the polymer/adhesive, because cheeking is useless even when the adhesive layer is removed, and people have been trying all sorts of things since these came out to find a way to abuse them. the adhesive in these apotex patches gets all gummy and clumps up, and no matter how long you suck/cheek them, it doesn't speed up the release of fent. and again, i wouldn't even care that they were so hard to abuse if they worked correctly when used as directed.

that's why i said initially, these patches are good for NOTHING. not only useless when used as directed, but even more useless if you want to get a buzz from them. the only time i would ever accept them is if they were given to me for free

mindless
01-13-2013, 11:04 AM
These patches should, at the very least, keep the person wearing them well for 72 hours. they don't keep me well for even half that long, and the pain relief lasts half a day at best.


Not that it will make these suck any less but are you prescribed to change every 48 or every 72?

entropy
01-13-2013, 11:12 AM
Not that it will make these suck any less but are you prescribed to change every 48 or every 72?

72, but i've been having to change them every 36 hours or so to avoid getting sick

mindless
01-13-2013, 03:34 PM
72, but i've been having to change them every 36 hours or so to avoid getting sick

Reason I asked, my friend, is that most physicians allow their patients to change every 48 hours due to the fact that many people do not get the desired pain relief from fent patches on the third day(you may already know this but I figured I'd mention it). I started out on 72 hours/patch years ago but after half-way through the first month my doctor allowed me to change every 48 hours instead due to this fact and it's been that way ever since. They just write for 15/month instead of 10 and insurance still covers it as it is quite a common practice - even though the patch manufacturers tout their products as being efficatious for the full 72 hours.

If you are already aware of this fact I apologize for preaching to the choir but if not I would highly recommend speaking to your physician about how the patches don't work so well on the third day. Granted, this will not make the apotex patches work any better(watson gels work great for the full 48(sometimes longer) and are plenty of fun even after removal;)) so obviously you still would want to get some other brand; but you already know this.

Please let me know if this is of any help as I'm curious.

In any event, I hope it all works out well for you.

entropy
01-13-2013, 04:36 PM
Reason I asked, my friend, is that most physicians allow their patients to change every 48 hours due to the fact that many people do not get the desired pain relief from fent patches on the third day(you may already know this but I figured I'd mention it). I started out on 72 hours/patch years ago but after half-way through the first month my doctor allowed me to change every 48 hours instead due to this fact and it's been that way ever since. They just write for 15/month instead of 10 and insurance still covers it as it is quite a common practice - even though the patch manufacturers tout their products as being efficatious for the full 72 hours.

If you are already aware of this fact I apologize for preaching to the choir but if not I would highly recommend speaking to your physician about how the patches don't work so well on the third day. Granted, this will not make the apotex patches work any better(watson gels work great for the full 48(sometimes longer) and are plenty of fun even after removal;)) so obviously you still would want to get some other brand; but you already know this.

Please let me know if this is of any help as I'm curious.

In any event, I hope it all works out well for you.

yeah, i was actually planning on asking my doc to decrease the interval between switching patches to q48 instead of q72

i know my insurance will only cover 10 patches a month, but i would pay cash for the others if i got the increase

i agree, most patches don't last 72 hours, even the really good kind. after 2 days, i can feel withdrawal slowly creeping up. i prefer matrix patches over gel patches, though. i don't smoke anything, and i find the gel useless for cheeking. i don't know why, but i can't get anything from cheeking gel patches.

i have an appointment tomorrow, and i'll ask my doc to increase to 15 patches a month. wish me luck.

and still: APOTEX PATCHES ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WORTHLESS

mindless
01-13-2013, 05:29 PM
You have my absolute best wishes for your appointment...

Your insurance will only cover ten hugh - that's strange given how common 15 patches/month has become. If that is the case maybe look into having your doctor do a prior authorization with your insurance company to pay for the rest; if possible. If you want any more detail into how/what/why prior authorizations work let me know, my wife is kinda an expert on those kind of things.

Oh & I don't smoke them either...and I've never even seen a matrix patch.

Saliva is your worst enemy here when it comes to gel...

opi,esq
01-13-2013, 06:53 PM
I coukd not find any recent recalls for this product, but a Medline search suggests it may be be a defect with the adhesive in the patch.

During normal use, have you seen it "tent up," or not stick to your skin properly? This is a known risk with transdermal drug delivery systems. You can report it to the pharmacy, the FDA and your doctor. Or, just call your doctor and let him/her know the parch is not sticking properly.

entropy
01-13-2013, 08:07 PM
I coukd not find any recent recalls for this product, but a Medline search suggests it may be be a defect with the adhesive in the patch.

During normal use, have you seen it "tent up," or not stick to your skin properly? This is a known risk with transdermal drug delivery systems. You can report it to the pharmacy, the FDA and your doctor. Or, just call your doctor and let him/her know the parch is not sticking properly.

yea, the one i'm wearing right now is doing that. even when completely covered with tape, it still does not stick properly

gimpylegs
01-13-2013, 08:17 PM
Yeah, the Apotex patches are not very good. They stick to my skin reasonably well but they do seem quite weak. I would not accept them from the pharmacy.

As far as abusing them, the only thing I found to work is to fOld it in half, adhesive on the outside, and actually just start chewing it like a piece of gum. Just try not to swallow your saliva too much. It's not a great method, but it's what I found works best with those pieces of shit.

opi,esq
01-14-2013, 12:07 AM
yea, the one i'm wearing right now is doing that. even when completely covered with tape, it still does not stick properly

There were a couple of other brands that have had recalls for the very same problem. It's a problem with the adhesive, and even if you put tegaderm over the patch, it still won't release the proper amount of medication.

I guess you could try reporting it to the pharmacy first, but you may have better luck talking to your physician first. This isn't without precedent, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to either the pharmacist or physician. There were a ton of FDA alerts a few years ago - it may have been the Mallinkrodt patches.

borohydride
01-14-2013, 04:13 AM
Can you not take them back to pharmacist with complaint - talk about this tenting and the fact that they are giving you no relief? In the UK, pharmacists and doctors can write up 'Yellow Cards' i.e. report adverse reactions.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1962.aspx?CategoryID=73&SubCategoryID=103

entropy
01-14-2013, 06:49 AM
Can you not take them back to pharmacist with complaint - talk about this tenting and the fact that they are giving you no relief? In the UK, pharmacists and doctors can write up 'Yellow Cards' i.e. report adverse reactions.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1962.aspx?CategoryID=73&SubCategoryID=103

i live in the USA and as far as i know, once one walks out of the pharmacy with a prescription, especially a CII, they are unable to be replaced or exchanged because of the possibility of tampering

i think i'd probably be able to get away with returning a faulty product at my main pharmacy where i've a rapport with the pharmacist, but i filled these at an unfamiliar walgreens in a big city, so i highly doubt they would accept a return or even entertain my story that the patches were defective.

i'm not totally sure if i'm correct about this, though... does anyone have any experience with returning faulty narcs/patches and actually having them replaced?

@opi,esq

i plan on talking to my doc today and asking him to write in "sandoz or pricara" under brand necessary, just to make absolutely sure i get the right brand. where would i go about submitting a complaint about these patches to the proper authority?

Dr. McKay
01-14-2013, 07:06 AM
I would call the manufacturer directly . ther should be a phone number on the leaflet that came in the box with the patches.
Also call the pharmacy and ask to speak to the pharmacy manager.

I had called Endo about their new Opana ER and how they totally suck compared to the old ones and they were very responsive and seemed to really care about my feedback.

I'm not saying that they are going to do anything, but if enough people complain about their product they might actually consider changing their product so it will work again for them.

opi,esq
01-14-2013, 08:12 AM
i live in the USA and as far as i know, once one walks out of the pharmacy with a prescription, especially a CII, they are unable to be replaced or exchanged because of the possibility of tampering

i think i'd probably be able to get away with returning a faulty product at my main pharmacy where i've a rapport with the pharmacist, but i filled these at an unfamiliar walgreens in a big city, so i highly doubt they would accept a return or even entertain my story that the patches were defective.

i'm not totally sure if i'm correct about this, though... does anyone have any experience with returning faulty narcs/patches and actually having them replaced?

@opi,esq

i plan on talking to my doc today and asking him to write in "sandoz or pricara" under brand necessary, just to make absolutely sure i get the right brand. where would i go about submitting a complaint about these patches to the proper authority?

The FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System link is here: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Surveillance/AdverseDrugEffects/default.htm

A patient can fill out the form, but it is usually done by the physician. Reporting can also be done by a pharmacist, though I seriously doubt the a-holes at Walgreens would do this for you. You should let them know the product they dispensed to you is defective, though you are right that they usually won't take them back, and definitely won't exchange them.

I had a very serious skin reaction to Butrans patches a few years ago, and my PM submitted the report to the FDA. I've never heard anything about the report, though I am told it gets tracked by the FDA, and once a certain number of similar reports are filed, the FDA can take action against the manufacturer.

Calling the manufacturer directly, as Dr. McKay probably found out, is the least effective method to complain about a drug.

From your more recent posting, it sounds like you've gotten some relief.

epione
01-14-2013, 09:44 AM
You can't have any medication replaced at my pharmacy CII or not. You have to get a new script which is a real hassle with a CII - nearly impossible for me. I have had replacement scripts called in for CIV though. If something were recalled it may be possible, that's the only way I could see it happening for a CII med at my pharmacy and with my insurance.

entropy
01-14-2013, 11:22 AM
The FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System link is here: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Surveillance/AdverseDrugEffects/default.htm

A patient can fill out the form, but it is usually done by the physician. Reporting can also be done by a pharmacist, though I seriously doubt the a-holes at Walgreens would do this for you. You should let them know the product they dispensed to you is defective, though you are right that they usually won't take them back, and definitely won't exchange them.

I had a very serious skin reaction to Butrans patches a few years ago, and my PM submitted the report to the FDA. I've never heard anything about the report, though I am told it gets tracked by the FDA, and once a certain number of similar reports are filed, the FDA can take action against the manufacturer.

Calling the manufacturer directly, as Dr. McKay probably found out, is the least effective method to complain about a drug.

From your more recent posting, it sounds like you've gotten some relief.

i'll definitely submit a complaint, even though i know it's extremely unlikely that anything will come of it. i'll just have to make sure the pharmacy doesn't slip me this junk again.

yes, i've definitely got some relief now. sweet relief, in the form of sandoz patches. apparently, the sandoz patches are still heavily backordered and apparently not even being manufactured at the moment. i don't know how my pharmacist got them. i just hope the issue is resolved next month.

the apotex patches are the cheapest kind available, so when i was at the hospital, that's what they were giving me. they wouldn't stock any other brand. in this instance, you get what you pay for.

stugots
02-02-2013, 03:14 AM
entropy

10000000000000
percent agreed. these patches are just a nightmare waiting to happen. if you have been on any other brand for an extended consistent period, and fall int o the misfortune of getting a complete refill with these useless band aids, it is a LOCK, a straight certainty, a cold fact, sugarman, you're going to withdraw, kick, pay the piper, and pray for death.

happened to me. i have kaiser, and BTW it appears that Kaiser P. has signed some sort of evil pact to carry the 100ug strength of these...
It was in November I went to get my monthly, and I was anticipating the script, because of course, I had run short, and was on the starting block, ready to cheek 1/2 a 100, when I looked over the counter to see these large boxes, with a horrible bold generic font that vibed problems. that Junky 6th sense fired up, and I knew trouble was in those boxes. I tried to shake it off, and just attributed my hesitancy to fear of change. I picked them up, and went to the restroom to cut one in half. I opened a unit, to see this flesh colored monstrosity that was the size of anna Nicole smith's nipple (rest in peace). It was flimsy like cheap mylar. They were so large that even 1/4 of one proved unwieldy. I cheeked it, ans was met with no telltale bitterness or flavor at all for that matter. I slapped two on. It was like sodding the lawn these fucking things were so large, like they were squatting propetly on my body. Despite the excessive adhesive, the patches were still prone to wrinkles nad kinks. So I waited hours, and was becoming sicker with each passing hour. My pain returned angrily and with a prejudicial vengeance. My stomach churned as an exodus of metal hedgehogs vacated my lower bowel.

Presently the shotgun sneezing began, the mocking warm tears falling on pallid exhausted flesh. 100% withdrawal syndrome. I was so sick, I was too out of sorts to complain to my doc for the first five days. When the first week passed, I decided to try to stick it out. I tried to 'bright side' it with some half assed rationalization: maybe I can get my tolerance down, and they will start working. I made it to two weeks before I called the doc. I was getting to the point where suicide was sounding like a good time.

I told my doc to google Apotex, and told him people trying to abuse them were not having any luck. There were not to many reviews regarding this brand, other than one shill who claimed they were hand manufactured by Jesus, the majority were pissed people. M doc said no problem, and wrote me a new script. I seriously put seven of these things on, and nothing. Useless garbage. Worse than nothing, because you are expecting some relief only to have this piece of plastic clinging to you mcking you doing nada. If it was a choice of filling a script for Apotex, or driving 10 hours for anything else, I am driving.

My doc actually writes on the script: DO NOT FILL WITH APOTEX.

They are manufactured in Japan which only bolsters my theory that Japan hates opiates.

One of the inactive ingredients on the label is MINERAL OIL. I am no scientist, but in't oil completely counter productive to having something like fentanyl absorb into skin?
Fucking mineral oil? These should be sold at Spenser's gifts in between plastic vomit and fart in a can.

Apotex, fuck you!

Seriously,
Fuck you Apotex.

Fuck you,
matt

EDITED TO ADD:
I can't say enough bad about these fucking placebo placebos. Exactly. If hese were fake, they would be fake. Japan, turn around, put your hands up, and back away from those poppies. It's over.

Thoms
02-02-2013, 02:29 PM
You told your doc people can't abuse them? And he was down? Damn.. I like it.

entropy
02-02-2013, 02:46 PM
^ if i read this correctly, he told his doctor people had such a bad experience with them that they were forced to attempt to abuse them, because they don't work when used as prescribed (just as useless when "abused," heh). which is absolutely true. i don 't think these patches even have any fentanyl.

Thoms
02-02-2013, 03:10 PM
Ahh I see entropy I could have easily misread and that makes a lot more sense:)

Matt M
02-02-2013, 03:13 PM
It sounded to me like he told them the people that were trying to abuse them couldn't even get anything out of them so they are obviously shit.