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View Full Version : IM injection of 7-hydroxy mitragynine tincture?



newParadigm
11-12-2006, 10:12 PM
I'm not really all up on ethneogen terms, what is a tincture (I always thought it was ethanol...), and if I had a 95% pure 7-hydroxy mitragynine tincture, would it be safe to inject IM?

tptptp
11-13-2006, 07:35 AM
Don't know but I can guarantee you if people find a way to this is going to get a whole lot more attention and probably made illegal very quickly.

Narkotikon
11-13-2006, 08:14 AM
I'm not really all up on ethneogen terms, what is a tincture (I always thought it was ethanol...), and if I had a 95% pure 7-hydroxy mitragynine tincture, would it be safe to inject IM?

Tincture: any substance disolved in solution, usually in alcohol / ethanol or water. Examples would be laudanum or paregoric, which are tinctures of opium in alcohol.

I didn't know you could buy 7-hydroxy mitragynine. I've gotten the 7-acetoxy mit. It was okay. I wonder if the hydroxy would be better. I think a better way would be to just take it orally. It would also be safer.

newParadigm
11-13-2006, 08:43 AM
Tincture: any substance disolved in solution, usually in alcohol / ethanol or water. Examples would be laudanum or paregoric, which are tinctures of opium in alcohol.

I didn't know you could buy 7-hydroxy mitragynine. I've gotten the 7-acetoxy mit. It was okay. I wonder if the hydroxy would be better. I think a better way would be to just take it orally. It would also be safer.

Id be more worried about impurities than the alkaloids themselves, I could probably find out if they are safe for IM injection on erowid or somewhere on the intraweb. I think im just gonna get Some and see what it comes as. How much Ethanol would be safe to inject IM if I went that route. 7-HM suffers from some pretty high first pass metabolism although rectal administration would probably be a much Safer way to increase bioavailability, or sublingual i suppose, but IDK if I could handle the taste.

greenfox
11-13-2006, 09:08 AM
Id be more worried about impurities than the alkaloids themselves, I could probably find out if they are safe for IM injection on erowid or somewhere on the intraweb. I think im just gonna get Some and see what it comes as. How much Ethanol would be safe to inject IM if I went that route. 7-HM suffers from some pretty high first pass metabolism although rectal administration would probably be a much Safer way to increase bioavailability, or sublingual i suppose, but IDK if I could handle the taste.


Umm if someone hasn't found a way yet that means one of three things:

1) it's never been done
2) it's been done but never reported on because that person didn't live
3) it's been done but never reported on because that person didn't post a report

With those sort of odds (33% likelihood of od based on pure science) I'd stay away.. :)
:rolleyes:

Narkotikon
11-13-2006, 10:15 AM
Id be more worried about impurities than the alkaloids themselves, I could probably find out if they are safe for IM injection on erowid or somewhere on the intraweb. I think im just gonna get Some and see what it comes as. How much Ethanol would be safe to inject IM if I went that route. 7-HM suffers from some pretty high first pass metabolism although rectal administration would probably be a much Safer way to increase bioavailability, or sublingual i suppose, but IDK if I could handle the taste.


That's what I meant. IM is risky because of the risk of abscese. I know that alcohol kills a lot of stuff, but I wouldn't IM stuff unless it was pharm grade. I said this in another post: the only thing I would ever consider IM'ing would be ketamine, and it would have to still be in its unopened vial. I mean, with things like pharm morphine, dilaudid, etc. It's better to IV. Ketamine is the only thing I can think of where it's better to IM. IV'ing K will put you into a k-hole before the needle comes out.

jacky
11-13-2006, 12:21 PM
I only report this cause the subject came up.

a person contacted me about a 50 % pure alkaloid extract of kratom that was available a few years ago.

the person took a 1/2 gram of the alkaloid mix.

cooked it up.

mixed a tiny amount with blood and watched for a clotting effect. no clotting was noticed, and they felt safe to continue.

3-4 shots of the mix was IV'd, almost 1/2 of the extract would NOT go into solution. the insoluable material was eaten.

the amount of alkaloids represents a fairly large dose of leaf. but this person felt NO RUSH, and within 10-20 minutes felt the standard kratom effects, with an increase of dizziness.

there were no toxic effects noted, but also no real effect that would warrent IV administration.

the person gauged that the amount of leaf it took to make the extract would have given them multiple doses, this IV experiment was strong, but came on rather slowly, and was not preferable to oral dosing in any means.

so it looks like consuming kratom alkaloids IV isnt anything to "write home" about.
this post was made in several other forums, and people freaked out about it, the author was more interested in keeping it a secret if the experiment proved worthy, but it didnt, and they felt that displaying the results might keep people from basically in my opinion from wasting material..

but what about
kratom enemas?
no one has reported this yet,
and I imagine that it might prove more interesting than IV possibly.

if people take up shooting kratom extracts it will look bad in the long run, but I dont think we have to worry about that. most people that insist on IV admin wouldnt really bother with kratom I think, it is similiar to shooting darvon or such, no rush, and the effects are not that much stronger.

I think people should remember than taking materials IV is an adult decision, and it isnt illegal to posses needles and IV legal materials, vitamins, steroids, different medications, lidocaine, etc can all be IV'd if a person is comfortable and knowledgeable about what it is they are doing.

I dont know what it would feel like to IV the pure isolates, and I am not really interested.

the person explained that this material wouldnt cut it as a heroin substitute, or as a heroin cut. they exclaimed that the experience reminded them of when someone sold them weak heroin cut with xanax, dizziness and other effects were noticed, and at some points, became overpowering.

this subject should die and wither I hope.

newParadigm
11-13-2006, 07:01 PM
I only report this cause the subject came up.

a person contacted me about a 50 % pure alkaloid extract of kratom that was available a few years ago.

the person took a 1/2 gram of the alkaloid mix.

cooked it up.

mixed a tiny amount with blood and watched for a clotting effect. no clotting was noticed, and they felt safe to continue.

3-4 shots of the mix was IV'd, almost 1/2 of the extract would NOT go into solution. the insoluable material was eaten.

the amount of alkaloids represents a fairly large dose of leaf. but this person felt NO RUSH, and within 10-20 minutes felt the standard kratom effects, with an increase of dizziness.

there were no toxic effects noted, but also no real effect that would warrent IV administration.

the person gauged that the amount of leaf it took to make the extract would have given them multiple doses, this IV experiment was strong, but came on rather slowly, and was not preferable to oral dosing in any means.

so it looks like consuming kratom alkaloids IV isnt anything to "write home" about.
this post was made in several other forums, and people freaked out about it, the author was more interested in keeping it a secret if the experiment proved worthy, but it didnt, and they felt that displaying the results might keep people from basically in my opinion from wasting material..

but what about
kratom enemas?
no one has reported this yet,
and I imagine that it might prove more interesting than IV possibly.

if people take up shooting kratom extracts it will look bad in the long run, but I dont think we have to worry about that. most people that insist on IV admin wouldnt really bother with kratom I think, it is similar to shooting darvon or such, no rush, and the effects are not that much stronger.

I think people should remember than taking materials IV is an adult decision, and it isnt illegal to posses needles and IV legal materials, vitamins, steroids, different medications, lidocaine, etc can all be IV'd if a person is comfortable and knowledgeable about what it is they are doing.

I dont know what it would feel like to IV the pure isolates, and I am not really interested.

the person explained that this material wouldnt cut it as a heroin substitute, or as a heroin cut. they exclaimed that the experience reminded them of when someone sold them weak heroin cut with xanax, dizziness and other effects were noticed, and at some points, became overpowering.

this subject should die and wither I hope.

often what should work in theory doesn't work in practice. I have never mainlined anything, but yours truly has been shooting 2Ci intramuscularly for almost a year. I've IM'd oxycodone, tramadol, and some other random stuff (that I'd made sure was safe, I just can't remember it all off the cuff right now).

I don't want to do this to get a 'rush' just to get more mileage out of an isolate. Bioavailability is much higher w/o first pass metabolism. I'm also experimenting with making 6-MAM (mono-acetyl morph) from poppy pods. Basically just extracting with acetic acid (white vinegar) produces the above compound. Its somewhat necessary to strip out the codeine/thebaine and other alkaloids as acetylcodeine is a nasty sub.

jacky
11-13-2006, 09:54 PM
I gotta admit, I have a problem IM'n things, it makes me squeemish, unless it is something pure like ketamine or demerol,
but I have no problem introducing materials into my bloodstream directly. though I just dont think it would really be worth IV'ing any kratom products, cause I am basically DONE with needles except in the case of me going out of the country to do some ketamine. or maybe if I ever saw a dillie again in my life.

I tried some kratom alkaloidal material, and did the water cook method of preparing an amount of insuffilation, just dropping a drip in the nose...same for the tincture, cook the alchohol out with some water in there, and drip in the nose. I think this method works real good, burns a bit...but I noticed a pretty strong come on.

newParadigm
11-14-2006, 02:17 PM
I gotta admit, I have a problem IM'n things, it makes me squeemish, unless it is something pure like ketamine or demerol,
but I have no problem introducing materials into my bloodstream directly. though I just dont think it would really be worth IV'ing any kratom products, cause I am basically DONE with needles except in the case of me going out of the country to do some ketamine. or maybe if I ever saw a dillie again in my life.

I tried some kratom alkaloidal material, and did the water cook method of preparing an amount of insuffilation, just dropping a drip in the nose...same for the tincture, cook the alchohol out with some water in there, and drip in the nose. I think this method works real good, burns a bit...but I noticed a pretty strong come on.


Thankyou for your input. I will keep quiet about the whole injection/kratom thing, as others have quietly suggested that you and some of the other mods would like to keep this sub under the radar (as would I).

Also, if I may, is there any basis for you aversion to IM, or is it just a phobia (not sayin theres anything wrong with that either, we all have 'em)

Woods
11-30-2006, 04:28 AM
Umm if someone hasn't found a way yet that means one of three things:

1) it's never been done
2) it's been done but never reported on because that person didn't live
3) it's been done but never reported on because that person didn't post a report

With those sort of odds (33% likelihood of od based on pure science) I'd stay away.. :)
:rolleyes:


Actually there’s no science there whatsoever. You need a good knowledge of statistics and probability to do what you’re trying to do, and even if you had a good grasp of those things, you don’t even have the information you need to begin. Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it isn’t., but what you said is basically menacingly. I’m not trying to be insulting, I’m just trying to tell the truth.

Curio
11-30-2006, 05:10 AM
Actually there’s no science there whatsoever. You need a good knowledge of statistics and probability to do what you’re trying to do, and even if you had a good grasp of those things, you don’t even have the information you need to begin. Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it isn’t., but what you said is basically menacingly.*** I’m not trying to be insulting, I’m just trying to tell the truth.


***menacingly what??

menacingly is an adverb and I don't see the end of the sentence/question here....

besides this is totally off topic....as is my post...
apologies to all :)

Paregoric Kid
11-30-2006, 05:25 AM
if it's a tincture that uses alcohol it would probably be a disaster to IM it.

wishdoctor
11-14-2007, 01:01 AM
Displaying naivete about math and science is not "menacing" in any way, regardless of whatever possible noun was omitted from the end of the sentence. The quoted poster who posited three explanations and assumed they were all equally probable had no basis for that assumption. Equating the chance of someone declining to post the results of an experment to the chance of their dying in the course of that experiment is utter folly.

They were joking, obviously! How many scientists come to their answers by tossing a coin?

WD


Actually there’s no science there whatsoever. You need a good knowledge of statistics and probability to do what you’re trying to do, and even if you had a good grasp of those things, you don’t even have the information you need to begin. Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it isn’t., but what you said is basically menacingly. I’m not trying to be insulting, I’m just trying to tell the truth.

wishdoctor
11-14-2007, 01:24 AM
if it's a tincture that uses alcohol it would probably be a disaster to IM it.

A sizeable i.m. injection of just 10% ethanol in water would be painful, but 1 cc or less of it should not cause any lasting damage to tissue. If someone were to inject, say, 2 cc of a 50% ethanol/water solution shallow (<1") i.m., they could count on having a nasty bluish green bruise that would be painful and would last for at least a few weeks.

In order for the mitragynine alkaloid to dissolve in a water/ethanol solution, the alcohol content would have to be at least 70% by volume. If you want an idea of what that does to tissue (without the mitragynine), it's easy enough to mix up, say, 0.1 cc of it with Everclear and distilled water and see what happens to the injection site. You may want to start with an even smaller amount of fluid than 0.1 cc.

I've done some experiments with ethanol/water injection and found that s.c. causes more damage than i.m., which causes more damage than i.v. But you have to be careful with i.v. and inject slowly into a large vein because otherwise you risk vein collapse. If you want a pharmaceutical that is hard on veins, try injectable diazepam, where even all the new generics seem to stick with the 1970s formula of the patent, which has 50% ethanol. Two things happen: 1) the alcohol burns tissue; and 2) since diazepam is insoluble in water it immediately precipitates, which causes more tissue damage.

The term for missing a vein is extravasation, which the product insert warns against. Just 1 cc of injectable pharma-grade diazepam can cause significant tissue damage if it ends up as a s.c. shot in a sensitive area. Take my word for it, you don't want that to happen near a nerve that you want to have operational, like for a hand, and if you try to "squeeze" that burning bubble into the surrounding hand tissue or try to force it into the vein in which you made a small hole during the "miss," count on some serious edema which could make that hand a lot larger than the other one for like a week, and that's from a pharma product made for injection (though not for s.c.).

I'd imagine that the precipitation of mytragyinine would be much more painful and cause much more severe NECROSIS than you'd get from diazepam.

And just plain forget about what happens to your heart, brain, or lungs if a CHUNK of precipitated alkaloid makes its way into those vital organs. If you want to live dangerously and inject the stuff, for pretty much any injection site, it's probably much safer to risk the localized necrosis you'd get from i.m. than the sudden death which could result from i.v.

WD

rachamim18
11-14-2007, 06:00 AM
The term is correct but the idea is not. To do so would be extremely dangerous. Forget the medium that the alkaloid is suspended in and think in more simple terms.

One huge concern is the lack of quantification in any commerically available extract. What exactly is in it? what are the exact percentages?

TP: It is already available commerically but it is a spurious concotion. The expense involved is extremely inhibitive. If a leaf on average has less than .5 percent content, EACH, how many leaves would a person need to even obtain 100 mgs?

As for the poster commenting on IM injection, right indeed. Even under the best of conidtions it should be approached reluctantly. Even with mircons/wheels the risk of abcess outweighs the benefit of repeated injection. If it were a clean substance, and if it was only performed once, it would be ok but those are important ifs.

Jacky: "Enemas.": I would be interested in the results for sure.