nodding bigtime on methadone

[opiobsessed]

Well damn, everyone here was right back when I was on suboxone and couldn't wait to get high off done. Everyone was right, the first month and a half about I felt that lovely glow again, got a ton of stuff done and loved my hobbies and found it easy to get stuff done and enjoy the day.

Now I notice an uplifting still, but it only lasts a few hours and I start nodding like crazy, I'll find myself time and time again falling asleep on the toilet with my neck killing me when I wake up, I'll even fall asleep just like that in front of the computer too.

Howcome opiates make you so energetic and ambitious etc for so long, but after maybe a few years you dont get much glow anymore and your mostly nodding all the time.

[BizzyBone]

I wish i knew the answer to that because i miss those energetic highes i used to get ....man i loved them so much

[Narkotikon]

Well damn, everyone here was right back when I was on suboxone and couldn't wait to get high off done. Everyone was right, the first month and a half about I felt that lovely glow again, got a ton of stuff done and loved my hobbies and found it easy to get stuff done and enjoy the day.

Now I notice an uplifting still, but it only lasts a few hours and I start nodding like crazy, I'll find myself time and time again falling asleep on the toilet with my neck killing me when I wake up, I'll even fall asleep just like that in front of the computer too.

Howcome opiates make you so energetic and ambitious etc for so long, but after maybe a few years you dont get much glow anymore and your mostly nodding all the time.


Just curious, but are you taking the methadone through a clinic or on your own. If you're at a clinic and you're nodding, you're too high. MMT should have no nod, constipation, euphoria (except maybe in the beginning if you're not used to it), etc. What dose are you taking?

I'm not sure if this is the right answer, but I know that when you take exogenous opiates, your body reacts by creating pseudo-opiate receptors. When you stop, your body has more receptors than endogenous endorphins, and withdrawal occurs. Maybe that's why you get that energetic lift in the begining. I'm probably wrong though.

[opiobsessed]

I'm currently on 210mg methadone once a day and I go in the clinic every morning.

[Narkotikon]

I'm currently on 210mg methadone once a day and I go in the clinic every morning.


Are you intentionally trying to get a nod on that dose? I mean, are you telling them you need more when you really don't? I guess I'm confused as to how you got that high of a dose at a clinic if you're nodding. Don't they take your trough?

[opiobsessed]

Yea, however I forgot to mention the reason I'm on the dose I'm on now is because I just had a fairly big surgery again about a week ago. Hell I hope I dont have to have anymore surgeries for a very long time because it just keeps upping one's tolerance.

[geanine.aurora]

I hope you recover quickly. I'd be grateful for the nods given your situation! I hope you don't have to have surgery again.

[Narkotikon]

Yea, however I forgot to mention the reason I'm on the dose I'm on now is because I just had a fairly big surgery again about a week ago. Hell I hope I dont have to have anymore surgeries for a very long time because it just keeps upping one's tolerance.


AH, okay, I gotcha. Now I completely understand. Yeah, I'm glad that you're nodding. I hope that you don't have to have any more surgeries either. Best of luck to you.

[lolleedee]

Wow, I can't believe that your clinic goes that high with doses. Mine won't go over 100 mg. no matter what!!! Even if your head is falling off, they would be like, tough shit! Also, I'm on 90 mgs., and all the other clients at the clinic are jealous(sp?) because most of them are on 70mg. or less...that isn't even in the therapuedic(sp?) range....damn clinic! I hope you are feeling better soon!!! what kind of operation did you have? Hope you are up and aroundd soon!!!!!

[rikaros]

If it is okay with you I would like to forward your post to our NAMA affiliate in New Jersey. It is against federal regulations to place a dose cap at any clinic, and if your clinic is doing so, then they can and should lose their accredidation status.

Please PM me and let me know. I will need to know exactly what the clinic name is and in what city it is located. Don't worry, you can be left completely and totally out of the equation when dealing with this potentially harmful issue (if people are not receiving proper treatment, they can die), so there wouldn't be any possibility of them trying to mess with you or your dose.

Absolutely amazing that there are still clinics out there with Neanderthal and non-therapeutic policies in place...

Ericka

[flipside]

Rika is absolutely correct. it is against Federal regs to place a cap on a MMTP. Even if it's a privately funded clinic where you self pay. Of course they have been the ones in my experience that keep upping your doses as long as the green keeps coming in. Youre getting screwed.

[opiobsessed]

Thanks everyone for your support and compassion, I had a hernia surgery in my lower groin area. The doctor said it was pretty big and lucky it didn't burst, I think it had been going on for a long time, because I remember a few years ago while doing some heavy work on a car I was fixing up I felt a sudden sharp pain in that area and it went away shortly. Ironically at that same time I had just started into vicodin and had a month of bliss.

Wow I miss that time, 2 of the 5/500 watson gave me a nice buzz for about 3 hours, that was like 4 years ago.

[lolleedee]

I actually asked the couselor about the dose cap and she said it was the clinics policy that anything over 100mg. was not necessary and that if a client needed more than that they took the position that the clinic was not the right place for them and that they would refer them somewhere else that would meet their needs. I don't know if that is how they "get around" having a cap or if that is still not a legal practice...believe me..I have always felt that I could use an increase, but like I said I am considered one of the "heavy dosers" there at 90mg. I'm really interested in what everyone had to say and if this is indeed a violation, I'm totally on board to help expose it. The stigma of addiction is bad enough..none of us should have to put up with substandard treatment(especially because I shell out $450.00 a month for treatment!)

[Narkotikon]

I actually asked the couselor about the dose cap and she said it was the clinics policy that anything over 100mg. was not necessary and that if a client needed more than that they took the position that the clinic was not the right place for them and that they would refer them somewhere else that would meet their needs. I don't know if that is how they "get around" having a cap or if that is still not a legal practice...believe me..I have always felt that I could use an increase, but like I said I am considered one of the "heavy dosers" there at 90mg. I'm really interested in what everyone had to say and if this is indeed a violation, I'm totally on board to help expose it. The stigma of addiction is bad enough..none of us should have to put up with substandard treatment(especially because I shell out $450.00 a month for treatment!)


Yeah, not only is it against federal regulation to have a dose cap in place, it's also unethical. I mean, the whole point of MMT is harm reduction and to help people (at least that's what it's about in theory, you could also make the case that it's about making money). I mean, if people can't get their dose, then they're still going to use, which not only puts the patient at risk for overdose, HIV/Hep for still using (if injecting), legal problems, etc., but also puts the clinic at risk because their statistical data is going to be bad. I mean, they'd have more drop out rates, higher rates of using in the program, etc. Usually, in my experience, clinics that have a dose cap are run / governed by people who don't believe in MMT anyway, so why the fuck are they working there? The state-funded clinic in Cincinnati doesn't go above 100 either. I found that out because I tried to get guest dosed there one weekend when I wanted to go home to visit my family, but my counselor at the private clinic here in Lexington said that I couldn't go because of the cap. I just think that's horrible. I guess that's also why most of the people in MMT in Cincinnati go to the private one in Indiana, even though they have to drive like 50 miles to get there.

[blackdog]

Man what i wouldnt do so's to be able to get that energy fix man what is up wit dat? my family kinda liked it when i got high cause i did everything that needed doing and then some things that didnt. (a little manic at times) but my car's were allways tip-top mechanically,refridgerator was allways clean same with laundry.........22 plus years later man i'm just fucking tired so fucking tired and it takes awhile before anything gets done, a long while like when it absofuckinglutely has ta get done. is it me? if i stop will i get my energy back? cause if i got things that need to be done then you know i gotta plan my fixes around that scheduale hah ain't life grand? peace da dawgg

[Tar_Baby]

Wow, I can't believe that your clinic goes that high with doses. Mine won't go over 100 mg. no matter what!!! Even if your head is falling off, they would be like, tough shit! Also, I'm on 90 mgs., and all the other clients at the clinic are jealous(sp?) because most of them are on 70mg. or less...that isn't even in the therapuedic(sp?) range....damn clinic! I hope you are feeling better soon!!! what kind of operation did you have? Hope you are up and aroundd soon!!!!!

Sounds like NJ clinics are still in the dark ages..IMO anything under 150 doesnt even block H for me..

[Tar_Baby]

Yeah, not only is it against federal regulation to have a dose cap in place, it's also unethical. I mean, the whole point of MMT is harm reduction and to help people (at least that's what it's about in theory, you could also make the case that it's about making money). I mean, if people can't get their dose, then they're still going to use, which not only puts the patient at risk for overdose, HIV/Hep for still using (if injecting), legal problems, etc., but also puts the clinic at risk because their statistical data is going to be bad. I mean, they'd have more drop out rates, higher rates of using in the program, etc. Usually, in my experience, clinics that have a dose cap are run / governed by people who don't believe in MMT anyway, so why the fuck are they working there? The state-funded clinic in Cincinnati doesn't go above 100 either. I found that out because I tried to get guest dosed there one weekend when I wanted to go home to visit my family, but my counselor at the private clinic here in Lexington said that I couldn't go because of the cap. I just think that's horrible. I guess that's also why most of the people in MMT in Cincinnati go to the private one in Indiana, even though they have to drive like 50 miles to get there.

Its not against fed regs...There just arent federal regs saying that there needs to be a cap. The clinic Dr can cap at any dose he wants and make it clinic policy. Come to Texas we have badass clinics here with no trough tests. No caps either, but they started making us get approval from both dr's for anything over 150 ( but they still will increase you, just formality really and costs nothing xtra)

[prettypoppy]

It doesn't matter WHAT the "clinic policy" is--they canNOT cap doses and be accredited! However, a lot of clinics get away with this stuff because no one complains! Here's the deal--your clinic is accredited by one of several agencies--they could not operate if they weren't. These agencies all forbid dose caps. This is a fairly recent development--in the past 5 years. They cannot use the excuse that "this is not the right clinic for you". What would occur is that you can tell Ericka which clinic it is, and who accredits them, and the accrediting agency would be contacted and a report made. Then, they show up for a surprise inspection and view some patient charts. If they see that no one is over 100mg, the clinic would be cited and forced to change it's policy, with follow up visits to ensure compliance. Please, Lolleedee--this is so important, both for yourself and your fellow patients! Please contact Ericka--she can help you! She is a wonderful advocate!

At an AATOD conference last April, I met a clinic director from Delaware, an elderly woman who stopped by our advocacy table for a few minutes to chat. No one at her clinic was over 120mg, and she expressed complete shock that I was on 220mg and another pt. was on 300mg, and we were standing before her completely awake, alert and bright eyed. She made some remarks about how we would not even be allowed to guest dose at her clinic--that it was not the right place for "people like us". We gently informed her that she was breaking the rules of her accrediting agency and subject to disciplinary actions should she persist. There are folks like this all over the country, and patients who suffer unduly for it. Why bother being on MMT if it is only going to keep you well for a few hours, and then throw you into opiate withdrawal every evening, where you are required to go buy street drugs to stay well til morning? A blocking dose of MMT is AT LEAST 80-120mg, and personally, at 80mg I could still feel the heroin just fine. My first time on MMT I never went abover 80mg (a high dose at that clinic) and I never stopped using, either. My second time, I got on a good blocking dose right away, and I have not used since my first day there (2 years ago).
An adequate dose makes a HUGE difference.

It's true that there are not federal regs against dose caps--but every accrediting agency has regs against it.

[Canis aureus]

I am on 130mgs and that is really hard hard work to get it to that: Now I'm withdrawing once again, and thinking about general things in Europe: there seems to be no such!

I have been on withdrawaslnow six months. BTW, I'm about 90kgs and 185cm tall.

Could not sleep well...

(I will kill myself soon)

[Narkotikon]

I am on 130mgs and that is really hard hard work to get it to that: Now I'm withdrawing once again, and thinking about general things in Europe: there seems to be no such!

I have been on withdrawaslnow six months. BTW, I'm about 90kgs and 185cm tall.

Could not sleep well...

(I will kill myself soon)

Hey, golden dog, interesting name. Don't kill yourself. Come play with us (said in my freakiest voice trying to mimic those two hacked up girls from the hallway in the Shinning).

[poppy]

I will kill myself soon

I'm confused about this part of your post, firstly I hope you aren't serious, but having said that if you aren't serious then you shouldn't joke about such things. There are some opiophiles who have lost people they cared about through suicide. Myself included. Sorry if I'm missing the joke!

[AWOL]

Canis aureus is Finnish. It's very difficult posting in a different language. I can attest to having made references in another language that are very common and understood here in the US that have pissed a great deal of people off in other parts of the world. I know where you're coming from with what you're saying about suicide, I've lost very very dear friends as well. I truely understand what you're saying. But, in his deffence I don't think he had the intention whatsoever to offend anyone.

[Woods]

I hope you recover quickly. I'd be grateful for the nods given your situation! I hope you don't have to have surgery again.

You know that the best way to ensure you recover quickly form any medical procedure which requires being cut up? Forget dull ass surgical steel, you need to go with obsidian. Good old volcanic glass, a million years ago our ancestors were making knives sharper then the sharpest steel scalpel, and today a well made obsidian blade still kicks the shit out of steel.

When one of my teachers was making a blade he accidentally slipped and stuck a piece of obsidian into his hand, down to the bone. Sound serious? The cut it made was so clean that all he had to do was hold the cut closed, for a few seconds, and the bleeding stopped.

Another prof of mind decided to do an experiment. He was getting some hand surgery and made the team several blades, but told them to only use them on one side, and the normal, bladed on the other. The obsidian side healed more quickly then the doc had ever seen, while the other side was typical.

[Canis aureus]

Sorry,

it was not a joke, nor ment to offend. I am very tired in general.

Also, I have lost many friends...

[Seeds&Stems]

Another prof of mind decided to do an experiment. He was getting some hand surgery and made the team several blades, but told them to only use them on one side, and the normal, bladed on the other. The obsidian side healed more quickly then the doc had ever seen, while the other side was typical.



Thats cool as hell. I wonder if obsidian is harder to obtain/refine than steel?

[Narkotikon]

Thats cool as hell. I wonder if obsidian is harder to obtain/refine than steel?

I think obsidian is really really hard to tool into a decent enough blade to use. It's just a form of volcanic glass. It was used in antiquity for blades, knifes, etc. It's just fragile, and can sometimes shatter if you're not careful. I mean, I've never tried to make an obsidian blade, that's just what I've read.

[Woods]

The thing is that the way they used to do it, smashing it with rocks and pieces of antler is really the only way to do it properly. It’s so sharp because unlike steal, which is machined down to an edge, obsidian is broken along natural fault lines, which give you an edge that can be literally a molecule thick. And yea, it is both hard and dangerous to work with, and those who do, even the experts, tent to cut themselves a lot. Also it can take hours to get a good blade.

Another thing it would be perfect for is a perfect weapon to hijack a plane with. Not only wouldn’t it set off a metal detector, but you could even just bring a non-threatening chunk if obsidian in your carry-on, along with a hammer stone, and make your own blade on the plane. If anyone asks, just tell them you collect rocks.

[poonwhalla]

I thought this conversation was about methadone but if I had a rock and hit you on the head woods would you care if it was clay or obsidian? or a big metal rock shit I bet it would make you say ouch. That is cool knowing that there is no limit to methadone but for me I have only had it about 6 times so I don't know much.

[Woods]

Me drifting a little is no reason to say something mean like that.

[poonwhalla]

You drift a lot? I bet it still would hurt

[Dilaudid]

Hello opiophiles,

I am french and where I live you have no cap dose you can perfectly have 300mg a day.
You have to go to the clinic only the frist month of your MMT after they progressively deliver your syrup for one week and then for two weeks and then for a month after you can have your methadone at pharmacy it is the typical protocol. MMT are completely free here.
I have tried methadone once (I took it at my work) (where I live methadone is only approved for detox and you can't have it for pain) and I've found the high to be heavy like glued (it remind me fentanyl in high doses).

Golden dog try to live, suicide is not an issue and it's to much pain thrown in this world...
I think (even if I am pretty new here) you can freely talk of your problems on this board. I've seen very supportive friendly people here.

[hovadagod]

BD You get teh shit done that absofukinglutely does not have to get done; the other shit....never.

[Papa Verine]

Hello opiophiles,

I am french and where I live you have no cap dose you can perfectly have 300mg a day.
You have to go to the clinic only the frist month of your MMT after they progressively deliver your syrup for one week and then for two weeks and then for a month after you can have your methadone at pharmacy it is the typical protocol. MMT are completely free here.
I have tried methadone once (I took it at my work) (where I live methadone is only approved for detox and you can't have it for pain) and I've found the high to be heavy like glued (it remind me fentanyl in high doses).

Golden dog try to live, suicide is not an issue and it's to much pain thrown in this world...
I think (even if I am pretty new here) you can freely talk of your problems on this board. I've seen very supportive friendly people here.

Hey Dilaudid,

The drug laws here in the US are bullshit. Hey, what's going on in Paris with the poor Arab young people and their crazy riots? Are those the same people you buy heroin from there? I'm just curious...

[Dilaudid]

Hello Papa Ver,


Hey Dilaudid,

The drug laws here in the US are bullshit. Hey, what's going on in Paris with the poor Arab young people and their crazy riots? Are those the same people you buy heroin from there? I'm just curious...

The riots where due to an accident involving police (police purchased two young mens in an electrical transformer, one young men died).
And ALL (white, poors, middle class, arabs, africans...) the sub-urb people were revolted against the police and the govenment (here if police kill someone it's a national affair and police men can go to a long time in jail. They have the right to shoot only if an agressor shoot frist).
American medias heavily misinformed you it was not a "racial or religious riot" just a riot against police and the government.

[applesauce]

American medias heavily misinformed you it was not a "racial or religious riot" just a riot against police and the government.

That latter is the kind of riot America needs MORE of.

[opiobsessed]

I barely get any glow from 240mg done that I'm on now, the clinic doctor asked me to stay at that dose for now. I thought it was strange when I asked the person who doses me about decreasing my dose and I said I felt like I was on too much and it was having the reverse effect like everyone on here tells me I'm on too much methadone. It seems like they want to keep me at this dose because they know I would maybe get that glow again if I very slowly tapered down to 150mg done.

I remember when I was adjusting to my doses everyday, that the nice glow never lasted past 4pm in the afternoon, however once I reached 150, I wasn't in bad wd at all when I woke up to drive up there to dose. I think I remember the reason why they raised me again at that point was because I wanted to get high when I got more vicodin handed to me by someone I know. I gotta quit screwing up.

[SpecialGuy69]

dude you are fuckin up. You were taking 10 vicodins a day, now you would have to take probably 60 vicodins a day to keep you out of methadone withdrawls. Your doctor is a fuckstain and he's screwing up your shit big time. You need to get the hell away from that clinic. 240mg of methadone is huge!

You can't get high on methadone every day!!! You won't get the glow from lowering your dose back down, you're just getting your sanity back. You aren't ever gonna get high again with your methadone dose that high- you'd have to do some pretty hardcore shit to get fucked up with that tolerance. This shit is serious, your doctor is making you worse, and you need to bail! Maybe just say fuck it and go c/t. Maybe go back on subs and control your dose- you should be able to get by on no more than 20mgs of subutex/day. You won't get high, but that's not in the cards anyways with a tolerance like you've gotten yourself.

[KiloByte]

dude you are fuckin up. You were taking 10 vicodins a day, now you would have to take probably 60 vicodins a day to keep you out of methadone withdrawls. Your doctor is a fuckstain and he's screwing up your shit big time. You need to get the hell away from that clinic. 240mg of methadone is huge!

You can't get high on methadone every day!!! You won't get the glow from lowering your dose back down, you're just getting your sanity back. You aren't ever gonna get high again with your methadone dose that high- you'd have to do some pretty hardcore shit to get fucked up with that tolerance. This shit is serious, your doctor is making you worse, and you need to bail! Maybe just say fuck it and go c/t. Maybe go back on subs and control your dose- you should be able to get by on no more than 20mgs of subutex/day. You won't get high, but that's not in the cards anyways with a tolerance like you've gotten yourself.

I agree, wtf is with a clinic denying you the ability to LOWER your dose? Do they spank you if you dont swallow the whole thing?

[opiobsessed]

Lol,
no its just the policy rules there, that I have to speak to my doctor there for a dose decrease, yet I dont have to when I want an increase. However since I manipulated them to get up to 240mg daily now I even have to speak to the doc for an increase now. So I think they have caught on.

[Papa Verine]

Hello Papa Ver,



The riots where due to an accident involving police (police purchased two young mens in an electrical transformer, one young men died).
And ALL (white, poors, middle class, arabs, africans...) the sub-urb people were revolted against the police and the govenment (here if police kill someone it's a national affair and police men can go to a long time in jail. They have the right to shoot only if an agressor shoot frist).
American medias heavily misinformed you it was not a "racial or religious riot" just a riot against police and the government.

Yes. That sounds correct. The American media is CRAP! That's why when I get to talking to somebody who "lives there" I like to ask them. Not CNN!

Of course they turned it into a racial thing here. The media here is a JOKE. But, you'll probably find that most of the people on this site realize this. We're not stupid enough to be sucked into media Bull-shit or police/government bull-shit.

[theobarbital]

several years ago, swim could snort a half a oc40 and feel like heaven. after daily for a couple years at increasing doses, no effect was pronounced at all. same story for most of you MM patients i'm sure. now trying to create harm reduction and to gradually get off methadone, i'm at 140 mgs.
at 140 swim is feeling strangely no effect at all. go in the clinic once a week and get 6 take homes. yet the day at the clinic that i dose i feel a slight glow for a couple hours. then get home, refridgerate weeks dose in its lockbox, and the next morning when i have my dose, i feel no effect at all, and this continues through the week. i'm still on the increase route, going up by 10 mgs every month, "as this is now as fast as i can with the new paperwork involved). does anyone have experience where their methadone increases have to pass through a mountain of paperwork filled out by swim and then a shrewd doctors approval? it used to be where i just told my counselor (even on the phone) i wanted to go up, and about 4 days later, i'd go up 10mgs on their comp system. now its a maze of formalities.

[SpecialGuy69]

now trying to create harm reduction and to gradually get off methadone, i'm at 140 mgs.

i'm still on the increase route, going up by 10 mgs every month, as this is now as fast as i can

uhh do you want to take more methadone or less?

[theobarbital]

uhh do you want to take more methadone or less?


i want to eventually be off methadone completely.
i have only been in the program 6 months and i have yet to stabilize. so even though i want to get off of it, i am going to 150 before i start to taper down. i realize what i wrote above might have seemed contradictory. all in all, i just want to work the program right, and i cant get off before i even stabilize, you know.

[sk8opium]

several years ago, swim could snort a half a oc40 and feel like heaven. after daily for a couple years at increasing doses, no effect was pronounced at all. same story for most of you MM patients i'm sure. now trying to create harm reduction and to gradually get off methadone, i'm at 140 mgs.
at 140 swim is feeling strangely no effect at all. go in the clinic once a week and get 6 take homes. yet the day at the clinic that i dose i feel a slight glow for a couple hours. then get home, refridgerate weeks dose in its lockbox, and the next morning when i have my dose, i feel no effect at all, and this continues through the week. i'm still on the increase route, going up by 10 mgs every month, "as this is now as fast as i can with the new paperwork involved). does anyone have experience where their methadone increases have to pass through a mountain of paperwork filled out by swim and then a shrewd doctors approval? it used to be where i just told my counselor (even on the phone) i wanted to go up, and about 4 days later, i'd go up 10mgs on their comp system. now its a maze of formalities.

where i'm at they will give you an increase for just saying "im having trouble sleeping".

But youre lucky to get take homes. You only get sundays here at first and you have to earn days. i think the max is like 3 days take home.

[nick]

where i'm at they will give you an increase for just saying "im having trouble sleeping".

But youre lucky to get take homes. You only get sundays here at first and you have to earn days. i think the max is like 3 days take home.
It's all relative I'd get a month of diamorphine at a time when I told the clinic I was quitting.Nice sight a months worth of H.Gives you a real feeling of security.

[sk8opium]

It's all relative I'd get a month of diamorphine at a time when I told the clinic I was quitting.Nice sight a months worth of H.Gives you a real feeling of security.

no shit?!?!

where the hell are you? heaven?

[nick]

no shit?!?!


where the hell are you? heaven?
Leeds England.It's more like hell to be honest.

[SpecialGuy69]

nick- did they give you powder or injectable amps? what strength? how many/day? I've never really heard the whole story on this - its fascinating.