Time for a change

[Powdered Love]

I really think it's time to get some help for myself and get my life back on track. Opiates have taken over my life slowly since I started using them about 4-5 years ago. I am really getting sick of the ups and downs, being depressed, having no money, and just generally hating the direction my life is going. I feel that if I don't stop and get help soon, I will end up dead. Whether it be from OD or from suicide, if I don't get help soon I'm not going to make it past the new year, I know this.

So, that being said, a buddy of mine agreed to start going to NA with me. He's also addicted and wants out just as badly as I do. I think if we do it together, we will have a much better chance of success.

I guess my question to you all would be, has anyone ever had experience with NA? What is it like, what can I expect, does it work, am I going to end up brainwashed (Scientology), etc...

Also, are there any other programs that are better than NA? I'm at the point now where I use about 2 - 3 times a week, so physical withdrawl will not be bad at all, if it is even there. I don't need detox, I just need mental support. I am thinking that NA would be the way to go for that, but I'm just wondering if there are any other rehab programs out there that would be better than NA.

Thanks in advance for the input...

-PL

[Chemical_Boy]

There is definitely nothing wrong with NA. I really do think that it works for some people, so if you need a change in your life it certainly couldn't hurt to give it a try. I have gone to NA meetings in the past. It didn't work for me, but there are three main reasons why: 1) It was not my choice to go. I was court ordered to do this. If it is not your own choice, obviously it won't work. 2) I was not ready to quit using. And 3) I am not religious. You kind of need to be a bit religious as you need to accept that there is a higher power of some kind. That all said, I think -from what I saw at these meetings- that it is a great thing for some people. It would be an excellent way to meet like-minded people. People who have used in the past and overcome their own demons are much better than people who have never used for support. They don't say stupid shit like, "well, if you want to quit just quit". It seems so fucking obvious to non-users (never-been-users), but anyone who has had a problem knows that they just live in a different world that we do. As Alice and Chains once said, "You cann't understand a user's mind. . .but try with your books and degrees". Yeah, people who haven't been there themselves are great to have around and all, but they can never truly understand. I think if you are thinking about NA and considering going, you might as well go. It can't hurt you, and maybe you and your friend will be able to get the moral support you need. I don't know, but that's my thoughts. Good luck with whatever you do to get straight.

[Narkotikon]

Powder, I am sorry that you are in such a bad state of mind. I can understand what you're going through. At times I feel as though I can't handle it anymore, but I just end up getting back sucked into the cycle. After a certain point, it's almost like conscious sedation. You become so numb that nothing really matters anymore. Again, I'm sorry that you are in such a predicament. If you ever need to talk, feel free to PM me.

My experiences with NA have not been great, but better than my dealings with AA. To me, AA is very anti-drug, and they really don't even like you to talk about drugs there. It really is focused on alcohol, which I can understand to a point, but alcohol is just another drug. So, whenever I went to meetings for rehab, I usually went to NA. For the most part, NA people are not judgemental at first. They will welcome you with open arms. The trouble comes if and when you relapse, which is a very very common occurance. I'd actually be more surprised if someone didn't relapse. It's just a "normal" part of recovery. In my opinion, NA'ers get very defensive when you admitt to them about relapse. It's as if they take it personally for some reason. Basically, NA and AA are just like big group therapy meetings. They aren't always that way, though. Sometimes, they'll do a lead, where the entire meeting or most of the meeting is focused on one or two guest speakers who share their stories. These people are generally well known in their respective NA / AA groups, so it's not as if they'd expect you to share for quite some time. It's almost like a rite of passage. A typical meeting basically follows these steps: arrive at the meeting, reading of the twelve traditions, reading of the mission purpose, reading of other pieces of literature out of the NA / AA handbook, then it's time for people to share. Sometimes they just go around the room asking for people to share if they want, other times they have a system to it, such as drawing numbers. Again, no one expects you to share your first time, or even your second, third, fourth, etc. It's just up to you. There are negative aspects of NA though. Since so may people end up there because of forced mandates via courts, you sometimes will encounter people who are only there to satisfy a requirement. They'll usually have a leader sign a piece of paper to prove that they were there. If you were to associate with someone like this, it's ususally much easier to relapse because they're really not there for the right reasons anyway. I really do agree that court-mandated meetings and or rehab isn't the best. It just prolongs the inevitable. Also, drug dealers love NA meetins because they know where to meet potential clients. I've gone to many NA meetings high, and it's just weird. I've not been to a meeting in about six years, but going sober is strange enough, going high makes it feel like everyone knows and that they're judging you. Now, this all might be different for you if you and your friend go together. At least you would have some support initially. Also, after a while, it will be expected for you to find a sponsor. Again, I hated this part because I just don't really like going up to some complete stranger and asking them to listen to me whine. I just think it's awkward. But that's me. You might like having a sponsor, but I never did.

Another approach would be to go to a therapist / psychologist and or psychiatrist that specializes in addiction. There are plenty out there. I always enjoyed going to a therapist rather than an psychologist, just because therapists tend to be more approachable and less clinical and cold, but that's just my opinion. Again, if you're not a very social person, this might be the way to go, as you'd get one-on-one attention. A psychiatrist could also help expecially with your depression. While it's normal to be depressed when ending a drug addiction, it is in no way acceptable to not treat the underlying depression. It could just be from the drugs, in which case it might improve in time, but it could aslo mean that you're a dual diagnosis patient, which most drug addicts tend to be, because it's so easy to self-medicate an underlying problem. Anti-depressants may be especially helpful in this situation.

Again, I'm not sure if this is of any hlep to you, but I hope it is. Again, please feel free to PM me if need be, or anyone else. We all are here to support you. :)

[kyuss]

Good Luck
there PL
I think if nick
can go cold birding
after 16 years
you can stop too

I'll have
to chill out myself
come January
if I decide to jump
back into a rig
(truck that is)

[nick]

Hi PL,Stopping is possible,but be prepared.NA,as they themselves say "it works,if you work it".Which translates as what you put in you get out.Try it.hell,I go and I used to mock it,till I needed it.

[AWOL]

It's not easy to stop using, but you can do it if you stick to your guns. Just speaking from personal experience, don't get down on yourself if (when) you relapse and use again. It's just an isolated event and doesn't represent your overall change. Remember to keep looking at the direction you're going .. not at a few relapses along the way. I relapsed quite a few time when I was quitting .. but you just have to not let it get to you and not get down on yourself for it. Just keep going in the direction you want to head. AA and NA all pretty much require you to be a religious person, that didn't work for me. In my opinion, I'm in control of my actions and my future, so I didn’t attend NA. It’s important to avoid situations that cause you to use, that's really the key. There's all sorts of advice on the matter, if something doesn't work for you don't get down on yourself. Try another approach. Find what works for you. It's really important that you don't get down on yourself, you've got to keep your spirits high. For me what worked was going to see a psychologist while I was quitting. Nobody wants you dead, if you feel you're loosing it I'd suggest looking into finding a psychologist that can help you with both any personal problems you're having .. and stopping the substance abuse. Best of luck to you, you can do it man, don't give up on yourself!

[Powdered Love]

Narkotikon.. thanks for the good post. It's reassuring to hear someone out there cares about me and my situation. After reading some of the points you raised about NA, I think it will be the best course of action for me. I am a social person, so I think the setting of group therapy will be good for me. I may also end up going to a therapist because, I feel that I have underlying problems with self-esteem and depression that drove me to drugs in the first place. However, I've been on anti-depressants before and I don't think they're right for me. I feel like that's just trading one drug for another when all I really need is to work through my root problems. I think I will need to take care of those problems too as I try to break my cycle of abuse. And you also raised a really good point about the cycle. I have managed to quit using opiates for some extended periods before, like say 2 to 6 months of non-use, but I always seem to slip back into the cycle. You know, the old "aww, it's been so long, just a few pills won't get me hooked again. I can handle it." Those times I just quit by myself, with no outside help whatsoever. Hopefully, with help from others this time, I will be able to quit for good.

I really appreciate you being there for me, and the advice you've given me here. I want to thank you. Just know that you've helped make a difference in my life :) even by just that one post.

I won't hesitate to PM you if I need any more advice/support. The same should go for you as well. Feel free to contact me if you ever need anything as well.

So thanks to you... and Chemboy as well. You guys are great.

Peace,
-PL

[Powdered Love]

Seriouly, thanks for the advice guys.. dv1313, I haven't given up on myself yet! That's why I'm still here, and trying to get myself some help.

To anyone who read my first post - please don't take what I said about suicide the wrong way.. I am by NO MEANS planning to hurt/kill myself, but I think if I were to keep using, I can see myself going down that road unfortunately.

Don't worry about me, as long as I have the drive to get better, I'm gonna make it. If I start posting about how I've lost all hope, then please start worrying about me. But i'm no where near there yet, and don't plan to be!

Thanks guys.

[InneedinFla.]

Good luck with NA,
I hope that it works for you, Even the people with the best intentions though tend to stray from the program. Not because of lack of trying, but the need just seems to be sooo strong. If you can do it... great. I had a brother that passed away at age 26 from an od of heroin and xanax and a mix of a couple of other drugs 1 1/2 yrs. ago. he was a years younger than I and like a twin. Actually like a son to me seeing that I raised him. I always told him to work the program if the drug was controlling his life. He did but I guess the inner need got him worse than I could have possibly imagined. He knew that I had to take pain meds for my condititon, and couldn't understand why I could take them and not him? At the time I kinda judged him because I had no reason to quit taking the meds because I truly need them. But now if I have to stop taking them I can honestly say that it would feel like I'm dying. Well, Jason did die. You work out what ever program works for you, and if it doesn't feel right, come back and talk to these people who know what it's like. I'm sure one of us....or them can talk to you.
Good Luck!
InneedinFla.;)

[AWOL]

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from and what you meant with your post. It's great that you've decided to take control of the matter instead of just burrying yourself deeper in it as a solution. You can do it man. Like you said, as long as you've got the determination in ya, you can do it. Might take some time, and a few attempts, but just keep heading in the right direction. You'll get there. But if you do relapse be carefull man, I know I'm repeating what you already know, but that's how OD's happen. As Nick has said, better two in the arm, than one in the ground. Same with pills, just be carefull man. I you need anything, we've got your back.

[moviebuff927]

Powder, I am sorry that you are in such a bad state of mind. I can understand what you're going through. At times I feel as though I can't handle it anymore, but I just end up getting back sucked into the cycle. After a certain point, it's almost like conscious sedation. You become so numb that nothing really matters anymore. Again, I'm sorry that you are in such a predicament. If you ever need to talk, feel free to PM me.

My experiences with NA have not been great, but better than my dealings with AA. To me, AA is very anti-drug, and they really don't even like you to talk about drugs there. It really is focused on alcohol, which I can understand to a point, but alcohol is just another drug. So, whenever I went to meetings for rehab, I usually went to NA. For the most part, NA people are not judgemental at first. They will welcome you with open arms. The trouble comes if and when you relapse, which is a very very common occurance. I'd actually be more surprised if someone didn't relapse. It's just a "normal" part of recovery. In my opinion, NA'ers get very defensive when you admitt to them about relapse. It's as if they take it personally for some reason. Basically, NA and AA are just like big group therapy meetings. They aren't always that way, though. Sometimes, they'll do a lead, where the entire meeting or most of the meeting is focused on one or two guest speakers who share their stories. These people are generally well known in their respective NA / AA groups, so it's not as if they'd expect you to share for quite some time. It's almost like a rite of passage. A typical meeting basically follows these steps: arrive at the meeting, reading of the twelve traditions, reading of the mission purpose, reading of other pieces of literature out of the NA / AA handbook, then it's time for people to share. Sometimes they just go around the room asking for people to share if they want, other times they have a system to it, such as drawing numbers. Again, no one expects you to share your first time, or even your second, third, fourth, etc. It's just up to you. There are negative aspects of NA though. Since so may people end up there because of forced mandates via courts, you sometimes will encounter people who are only there to satisfy a requirement. They'll usually have a leader sign a piece of paper to prove that they were there. If you were to associate with someone like this, it's ususally much easier to relapse because they're really not there for the right reasons anyway. I really do agree that court-mandated meetings and or rehab isn't the best. It just prolongs the inevitable. Also, drug dealers love NA meetins because they know where to meet potential clients. I've gone to many NA meetings high, and it's just weird. I've not been to a meeting in about six years, but going sober is strange enough, going high makes it feel like everyone knows and that they're judging you. Now, this all might be different for you if you and your friend go together. At least you would have some support initially. Also, after a while, it will be expected for you to find a sponsor. Again, I hated this part because I just don't really like going up to some complete stranger and asking them to listen to me whine. I just think it's awkward. But that's me. You might like having a sponsor, but I never did.

Another approach would be to go to a therapist / psychologist and or psychiatrist that specializes in addiction. There are plenty out there. I always enjoyed going to a therapist rather than an psychologist, just because therapists tend to be more approachable and less clinical and cold, but that's just my opinion. Again, if you're not a very social person, this might be the way to go, as you'd get one-on-one attention. A psychiatrist could also help expecially with your depression. While it's normal to be depressed when ending a drug addiction, it is in no way acceptable to not treat the underlying depression. It could just be from the drugs, in which case it might improve in time, but it could aslo mean that you're a dual diagnosis patient, which most drug addicts tend to be, because it's so easy to self-medicate an underlying problem. Anti-depressants may be especially helpful in this situation.

Again, I'm not sure if this is of any hlep to you, but I hope it is. Again, please feel free to PM me if need be, or anyone else. We all are here to support you. :)

Yeah, people in AA seem to be incredibly arrogant assholes...they think if you use drugs you are bad but they do the same things we do but yet they're better than we are?

When I was forced into rehab a few years ago, we had to go to mandatory AA and NA meetings. Some nights they had NA, some nights they had AA. Needless to say, most people in rehab were in because of drugs, not alcohol. And the people who came to talk from AA were complete assholes to anyone who was addicted to drugs. Fuck 'em all...I never beat my wife and kids when I was nodding...

[nick]

Yeah, people in AA seem to be incredibly arrogant assholes...they think if you use drugs you are bad but they do the same things we do but yet they're better than we are?

When I was forced into rehab a few years ago, we had to go to mandatory AA and NA meetings. Some nights they had NA, some nights they had AA. Needless to say, most people in rehab were in because of drugs, not alcohol. And the people who came to talk from AA were complete assholes to anyone who was addicted to drugs. Fuck 'em all...I never beat my wife and kids when I was nodding...
Amen bro,also there is cross abuse.many ex dopers drink and many ex drinkers do somekind of dope.
end of the day na helps,but really it's all up to you.good luck man.

[Powdered Love]

I actually know a guy who has been in AA for many years now... He's a very nice guy, but as soon as he entered AA and got sober, be started taking opiates for a painful condition he had at the time. Needless to say, he's now addicted to the painkillers, but seems to have convinced himself he needs them for pain. He doesn't seem to realize his "pain" is actually "withdrawl". He still looks down on anyone addicted to "drugs". Wierd.

[slugbone]

I actually know a guy who has been in AA for many years now... He's a very nice guy, but as soon as he entered AA and got sober, be started taking opiates for a painful condition he had at the time. Needless to say, he's now addicted to the painkillers, but seems to have convinced himself he needs them for pain. He doesn't seem to realize his "pain" is actually "withdrawl". He still looks down on anyone addicted to "drugs". Wierd.

it's all been said in these posts, so the only thing i can add is make sure you post routinely here, so that you can get support and advice from us folks. therapists can really help, NA i've only done AA and alateen back in the day so i won't taint your mind about it.

the big thing of annoucing you are trying to quit here was a good idea in my opinion, cause now you will have folks asking and helping you here.

just keep one thread going for your and from time to time come in to just talk about the shit going on. then you won't have to look thru the other posts about us getting high and shit.

anyway it is important that you know i will set a prayer flag out for you and that when difficult times come you will feel the tangible support coming from me and others here to help you cause YOU WILL SUCCEED

[Powdered Love]

it's all been said in these posts, so the only thing i can add is make sure you post routinely here, so that you can get support and advice from us folks. therapists can really help, NA i've only done AA and alateen back in the day so i won't taint your mind about it.

the big thing of annoucing you are trying to quit here was a good idea in my opinion, cause now you will have folks asking and helping you here.

just keep one thread going for your and from time to time come in to just talk about the shit going on. then you won't have to look thru the other posts about us getting high and shit.

anyway it is important that you know i will set a prayer flag out for you and that when difficult times come you will feel the tangible support coming from me and others here to help you cause YOU WILL SUCCEED


Thanks, slug, i need all the help i can get at this point :o

And yes, good idea about the one thread thing... i've noticed reading through some of the posts on this site really makes me want to eat massive amounts of pills, especially the ones with pictures... hell it's like opio-porn!

I will for sure keep everyone updated on my progress getting clean... wish me luck!

[nick]

it's all been said in these posts, so the only thing i can add is make sure you post routinely here, so that you can get support and advice from us folks. therapists can really help, NA i've only done AA and alateen back in the day so i won't taint your mind about it.

the big thing of annoucing you are trying to quit here was a good idea in my opinion, cause now you will have folks asking and helping you here.

just keep one thread going for your and from time to time come in to just talk about the shit going on. then you won't have to look thru the other posts about us getting high and shit.

anyway it is important that you know i will set a prayer flag out for you and that when difficult times come you will feel the tangible support coming from me and others here to help you cause YOU WILL SUCCEED
Brother Slugbone is totally right.I wouldn't have made it this far without the kindness of you guys.some of you went above and beyond the call of duty.Thank you.
We are here for you PL.

[Duckfeet]

I really think it's time to get some help for myself and get my life back on track. Opiates have taken over my life slowly since I started using them about 4-5 years ago. I am really getting sick of the ups and downs, being depressed, having no money, and just generally hating the direction my life is going. I feel that if I don't stop and get help soon, I will end up dead. Whether it be from OD or from suicide, if I don't get help soon I'm not going to make it past the new year, I know this.

So, that being said, a buddy of mine agreed to start going to NA with me. He's also addicted and wants out just as badly as I do. I think if we do it together, we will have a much better chance of success.

I guess my question to you all would be, has anyone ever had experience with NA? What is it like, what can I expect, does it work, am I going to end up brainwashed (Scientology), etc...

Also, are there any other programs that are better than NA? I'm at the point now where I use about 2 - 3 times a week, so physical withdrawl will not be bad at all, if it is even there. I don't need detox, I just need mental support. I am thinking that NA would be the way to go for that, but I'm just wondering if there are any other rehab programs out there that would be better than NA.

Thanks in advance for the input...

-PL


Hey Powdered Love: I've read a the other posts on this thread, and all seemed pretty sensible. Just wanted to add a few things: Probably one of the reasons I *have* made it to being an old junky--I'm 55--is that I have had periods where I got it off it altogether. I personally don't think we ever shake totally that almost biological desire for opiates, once we go past a point of using the shit.

I got off it pretty much in prison...which is kind of overkill. The other time I was looking at time if i kept failing piss tests in Louisiana, and was forced to go to AA, which was all they had, back then, where I was at.

I liked it all right, once I got pass the religious sounding stuff. And you'll find nice people, with a sense of humor, I mean they're all different. I think if you go to enough meetings, either NA or AA, you'll find people you get along with. So my main suggestion would be to go lots of different meetings, both NA and AA until you find a meeting you like.

Some guy was really nice to me a long time ago, and I actually tried to work the steps, without believing in God at all, and I kind of had my tongue in my cheek, but was getting desperate, and quitting is part of our deal too. The funny thing was, those steps seemed to work. I got *five* years off junk, squared up my past, made friends again with family, all kinds of stuff.

Of course, bad news was, some Doc I was seeing for HepC offered me dilaudids...for the pain...long story, but anyway, within a few months I was down in Corpus Christi TX all strung out on smack again.

I do know people who got off and stayed off, so you'll find a way, if that is what you want. I faced up, I think, to the fact I'll always be this way. I'm healthy, have enough money to take care of myself, and just want to avoid the hassles of the legal and medical system that can be a junky's fate, if we ain't careful.

Since I'm not in UK, and can't avail myself of medical heroin, I just got back on low dose methadone maintenance, which is other option for longterm opiate addict. I do it periodically, then get to hating it, get off it. I'm trying to keep a good attitude, now I'm back on methadone, maybe I won't get all crazy after a while...like I usually do. Once we go down strong opiate road, we got tough choices we got to make along the way...sometimes it can seem a grim road, I guess. But life can be tough no matter what, so best to be of good cheer along the way.

There are also good online sites, both for AA, NA, getting off drugs, and methadone maint. support sites.

Best wishes, man, mostly you just got to hang in there, and find something else you can substitute for the life...

[devilsdrug]

as most of u know my story its similar to df i hav hundreds of meetings under my belt both na and aa , i personally dont like there bs but learned to take what i could use when i needed it , i have seen both organizations do wonders for some people, i my self hav com to be at ease with my junkyself , i dont stress on oh shit i gotta get clean , i cant do that it doesnt work u also hav to ease into this life, i was prepared this last time since i ve many years of bein a non productive unresponsible junky those are the keys to it for me , if im bein productive and responsible then i wont feel guilty for bein a dope fiend

[flipside]

as most of u know my story its similar to df i hav hundreds of meetings under my belt both na and aa , i personally dont like there bs but learned to take what i could use when i needed it , i have seen both organizations do wonders for some people, i my self hav com to be at ease with my junkyself , i dont stress on oh shit i gotta get clean , i cant do that it doesnt work u also hav to ease into this life, i was prepared this last time since i ve many years of bein a non productive unresponsible junky those are the keys to it for me , if im bein productive and responsible then i wont feel guilty for bein a dope fiend


Pretty much everything that can be said has been. DD brings up a good point, the one sticking point that allowed me to stay with NA for 10 + years before my return . "Take what you need and leave the rest".

For me a lot of it was the fellowship.

As for a higher power, I could not get past that either, there is a spiritual component to the program but Hell I know people whose higher power was ther sponsor, or the Clouds in the sky.

Like Nick said, it works if you work it,

If it doesn't work for you, then you know you have support here and have been given other really good suggestions.

Whatever direction you choose, I wish you luck and thank God you don't have to go through horrible WD's.

[SpecialGuy69]

Hey Powder Love- How have you been doing? Let us know how things are looking for you, and if you need any help. We're here for you.

[Duckfeet]

[QUOTE=devilsdrug;51515]

<snip>
i my self hav com to be at ease with my junkyself , i dont stress on oh shit i gotta get clean

<snip>




...and that's how I feel. And one of the hardest things to attain. I know people who seem to spend a lifetime, hating this shit when they are on it, and then being miserable and craving it when they aren't. Me too, me too, for the longest time. I mean, I've spent way too much time thinking oh no, I gotta stop, like *tomorrow!*

A long time ago, when I was loving it, fighting it, you know, one day grabbing my balloon and sneaking back to Costa Mesa, next day swearing off for good, a dealer named Bear, told me, man you gotta either jump in with both feet, or get out. Bear had good reputation, so he always could hold the bag, oldtimers trusted him, because he had paid his dues, and kept his mouth shut. But mostly, I remember him as being usually cheerful with all the weird shit that came with junky life. I was young, fresh out of army, and he kind of schooled me.

Took me a lot of years, before I think I understood what he was getting at. I mean, for longest time, I thought heroin was just another, what, experiment, or attitude thing, that I could jump in, or jump out, at will. I was typical kind of middle class raised whiteboy, thought this was a game, who couldn't accept the deal at all. so I had be beat a little bit by la vida loca.

I had to realize this was the way it was going to be, no escaping it anymore. But had to pay some dues, show I could stand up when things got crazy. A lot of hard shit had to go thru my life before I could face fact this was the ride I was on, and best learn to be good at it.

Life is short. If worse come to worse, and I end up playing dominoes on the yard with other old fools, I want to be able to laugh with the sun on my face, know I enjoyed this strange bus ride as best I could...