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View Full Version : Missing veins yet still registering, why? And will it still work?



tarqueen
07-31-2012, 01:45 AM
Lately I'm having a problem where I've essentially used up all the veins I can find. I will usually try at least 10-20 times before I find something I think may work. Usually I come to this conclusion by the fact that I register and blood comes through clearly.

However, oftentimes even with the blood coming through it still hurts and I can still feel that I'm missing partially. I'll try and readjust, thinking maybe it's only in partway and if I pull out a bit or move to the side it will help. Sometimes I think it does, but almost always despite plenty of blood coming through I end up with a pale white painful patch/bubble.

How come it looks like it's in, with blood coming through, but it still hurts and results in a painful bubble/mark? Regardless I find this option better than other methods, since it is poor quality and no other method is worth doing (25$ per g) and sometimes I make it and get the rush I'm looking for.

Also, once this happens, will it still absorb like it would with a regular IM injection? Or will it not go through the body at all? I generally don't notice if it does because I'm missing the rush, but I would feel better knowing that my body is at least absorbing the wasted shots I miss because they are often large and expensive. In addition, is there anything I can do when this happens to make it absorb better, make it circulate more effectively, and/or somehow get me high?

Thank you for your help,
first poster.

mainline
07-31-2012, 07:19 AM
Hello, Hunny. Yes, for the most part your body does absorb missed shots. It'll take a bit longer than IV but it'll come, I promise.

Chipper
07-31-2012, 07:31 AM
We need more facts:

0. IV or IM usually ?
1. How old are you ?
2. You're female, I assume.
3. How long have you injected ?
4. What have you injected ?
5. What are you injecting ?
6. Where are you injecting ?
7. Approximate amount of injections, to the nearest 1000 ?
8. What guage, length and barrel size ?
9. How much water do you use ?
10. Are you using stimulants ?
11. Are you on any medication ?
12. Do you use a tournquet, when do you release it ?
13. What areas do you inject in ?

There is something wrong with this picture but I can't work it out.

Please provide an overview of a typical shot right from the product used please.

I suspect that you're coming out the underside of the vein or are hard-up against the wall somehow, are missing completely or a combination of them all.

I often rotate the needle a bit when in the vein ... there are many variations of the humble "shot".

Der Alte Krieger
07-31-2012, 07:51 AM
IMO, whats happening is that you are moving the needle when you change hand positions. Try really concentrating on the length of the shaft sticking out of your arm, eyeball it real close. If you will apply slight downward pressure to the body of the rig, the edge of the tip fit will rest against your arm, keeping the needle in correct position as you change hand position to push the shot in. Before you push the shot in, look at the needle again, making sure that its still in position. If its not theres no point in shooting it.
Be really careful when checking for register, thats when people are most likely to push it somewhere else wrong. Pay real close attention to the length of needle sticking out of your arm! If you dont believe how close the human eye can measure, think about this, you can tell a thick hair from a thin hair,and thats hundred thousandths of an inch.
Once you register, pay rapt attention to how much needle is sticking out of your arm, thats where the blood is.

I'm guessing you got chick viens and dont need to be punching 18 scars per shot.

Chipper
07-31-2012, 08:12 AM
DAK, now I feel silly with all my questions.

Don't we all try for just the one position ? I often jack many times in a big 5 ml. shot and what ever you do, do it slow motion.

Slow, careful, firm but gentle, motion.

Depending on the vein, the length sticking out varies, depending on the angle, how scarred it is, how old it is etc.

entropy
07-31-2012, 08:26 AM
if you've been digging around for a while then are suddenly able to "register", you're probably registering blood that has formed in a small hematoma (pocket of blood) under the skin. when you dig around for so long, blood pools under the skin. if it burns/stings when you inject, you're probably not even in a vein. you may have hit a vein at one point, and the vein is now bleeding under your skin, but you're probably not in a vein. the absence of a rush = you missed the shot

if all your peripheral veins are blown, and you still MUST have a rush, you could use your femoral artery but i highly recommend NOT doing so. some people go this route and end up shooting into their jugular, and it's probably the most unhealthy thing a person could do, injecting bacteria-laden tar directly into their brain. brain's immune response = inflammation of brain tissue, possible blood clot, aneurysm, and so forth. some junkies seem to have bodies of steel, though. i.e., they abuse their body for decades and it never "gives out"

even IM'ing tar is inherently extremely dangerous. the mexican cartels don't give a fuck about quality control, or at least so i hear, and this goes so far as to include the cleanliness of their product. "flesh eating bacteria" are actually a diverse group of common opportunistic bacteria that live practically everywhere that can seriously fuck you up if one were to infect your fascia (a layer of skin below your epidermis). you would develop what is referred to as "flesh eating disease", and being an IV drug user you most likely would not seek help in time and would end up a dead duck after suffering through an agonizing rapid deterioration of your health.

just saying.

Der Alte Krieger
07-31-2012, 08:43 AM
Chipper;741668]DAK, now I feel silly with all my questions.

When I saw all your questions I felt dumb for not asking any.


Don't we all try for just the one position ? I often jack many times in a big 5 ml. shot and what ever you do, do it slow motion.
You got to remember you are used to shooting through scar tissue, it has a tendency to lock the needle in place. I think the OPs tubes are fresher and with a sharp needle ans skinny viens its easy to slip around



Depending on the vein, the length sticking out varies, depending on the angle, how scarred it is, how old it is etc.[/
True, but the length of the shaft sticking out when you register is going to remain constant no matter what. I like take a mental photograph of it when I register and keep it the same distance.

Chipper
07-31-2012, 09:25 AM
After much thought, let's tell her to NEVER I'M if the gear is not fresh, sterile and pure (hospital grade) and build up more back pressure to make the vein stand "proud" (this very old man used that term).

If she applies your benchmark and then repeats using the tie, remembering to release it once deeper in but more parallel to the vein, (I like it so the sharps go all the way in, I lock my hand onto my arm by pressing down and then inject steady and slow as).

Now this is achieved by coming into the vein (a light shining at different angles and reflecting off the now bulging vein best) at a low angle.

Don't keep the tie on more than 30 seconds per attempt) but come in at a very shallow angle, mindful of not scratching the vein.

Pump your fists, clench, tie for 30 secs. Don't try yet. Release, repeat -- now try.

The shallower the angle, the more parallel and secured, locked in, deep.

* NOTE : This is a 5 ml. technique. No need to go as deep and lock in as hard when using the standard insulin syringe.

Good luck ... Like foundations, minimise any sideways movement, secure your hand if unsteady or shaking from fucking nerves !

If you think you can stop this please consider it. The more you do it makes it less likely. Simple yet hard as cold.

Lady, choose wisely.

DAK, you handled it kindly. Thanks.

esvbud
07-31-2012, 09:25 AM
If you will apply slight downward pressure to the body of the rig, the edge of the tip fit will rest against your arm, keeping the needle in correct position as you change hand position to push the shot in.

I agree with this completely. Even when I plunge when the needle isn't completely buried I tend to apply pressure to keep from moving at all. This works really good when I hit my fingers and other small veins.

Der Alte Krieger
07-31-2012, 01:31 PM
I agree with this completely. Even when I plunge when the needle isn't completely buried I tend to apply pressure to keep from moving at all. This works really good when I hit my fingers and other small veins.

I put a lot of pressure on the whole rig, pretty much imobilizing the whole thing. As long as you are well up in the vien its fine, IME

makita
07-31-2012, 02:27 PM
Just wanted to add that when you DO miss, applying a very warm damp washcloth to the area for 5 mins will help with both absorption and avoiding infection. Best to do it right away, but if you must wait until you've reregistered and finished your shot, just try not to wait longer than 20-30mins.

Even if you're shooting up in a bathroom somewhere you can take a sec to clean up, pop out, get some paper towels, wet them down with hot water, and go back in the stall to soak (as long as its safe to do so).

at&t
07-31-2012, 02:39 PM
OK, friends... I'm not 100% conivinced.

Health professionals? Dope experts of all stripes?

Imagine this.

You try to shoot into a big vein on your forearm. But whoops! -- Your cat jumps on your hand, and you miss completely, sending all of the stuff into a pool that sits in the big 1cc blister Right underneath your skin.

It doesn't get infected, and nothing bad happens. -- it swells, but only a little bit, and then gradually goes away-- Finally being completely dispersed about 36 or so hours later.

Compared to IV, what percent of the shot actually ends up being "bioavailable?"

100% -- is it just a "Long acting" "Timed-Release" "Rush-Free" version of a regular shot? (as folks claim?)
50% ? -- does Part of it get destroyed/cordoned-off/whatever by "white-bloodcells and such," while part of it leaches through? or...

I don't know. I could never stand missing a shot. Having it end up in that blister-thing just under the skin like that... It SEEMED to ruin the shot. but I don't know... I never Ever even Once was willing to put up with it and just wait. I always ended up doing another shot instead of waiting to find out the answer.

Just curious. . . Thx, at&t

chopstix
07-31-2012, 02:58 PM
This happens to me a lot, most of my good veins are long, long gone..

Applying pressure works well, and I also watch the length of the exposed needle to help gauge whether I'm moving the point.

Lately I've been thinking I'd probably have much better luck with the dropper style rigs, cos you don't have to move much once you register. If I try one, I'll report back.

Sometimes, depending on the vein, I'll hold the rig so that all action on the plunger is done with my thumb (and my pinky is close to the needle), it looks totally awkward, but I find it to actually be a pretty accurate technique.

I had kick ass veins for years and years, never had to struggle like this until a few years ago. Now I don't have the patience to spend an hour in the john for a measly 1cc shot (I muscle sometimes 2-3 grams in 3ml barrels - huge tolerance and generally mediocre dope), also I try and save veins for things that are much more fun IV like coke and speed; heroin, meh - I actually kinda like the creeping, long-lived rush of a big IM hit.

If you miss, you'll still get it. Make sure to massage the area as much as possible, and as stated, a hot compress will help bring blood into the area, clearing it out and aiding absorption.

lawyerup
07-31-2012, 03:01 PM
When I saw all your questions I felt dumb for not asking any.


You got to remember you are used to shooting through scar tissue, it has a tendency to lock the needle in place. I think the OPs tubes are fresher and with a sharp needle ans skinny viens its easy to slip around



True, but the length of the shaft sticking out when you register is going to remain constant no matter what. I like take a mental photograph of it when I register and keep it the same distance.

I've always done the same thing, got a mental image of how much needle is left outside my arm when I register and try like hell to keep that same amount while I register and inject.

Chipper
07-31-2012, 04:47 PM
Here is the angle I came in at. Note my new Traktor S4 Controller in the background (the real reason I had/took the 'shot', hehe).

This area of vein is the new spot that 'appeared', There is no scar tissue and my hit rate is 50/50 so far.

This is the perfect 5 ml. shot: I came in once at a SHALLOW angle. The 26 G. 1/2" is all in and locked; pressing down whilst injecting to flatten the vein. Should it offer resistance, I withdraw abount a 1/16 and check plunger resistance. If too firm then I try to jack and check.

This was a 15 mg. Dexamp. (oily) + 15 mg. Methadone shot for demonstration purposes.

The tie and my teeth, in this case, manages the back pressure until sharps are all the way in - the comfort and confidence when it does is reassuring.

The perfect shot, despite the drug injected, is a reward in itself. Now that thought is attached to your brain's prioritisation that it gave the drug(s) prior to injecting and this is why the IV addict will struggle with these indelible thoughts that plague him/her forever.

Again, it all may appear nice, clean and relatively innocuous, but it's taken a life time of errors, risks and NDEs to get here.

If you don't inject, please do not start. If you do, you might as well perfect the art and try to aim for 'the perfect injection', out-do yourself and think like bacteria.

What I just injected is NOT sterile and filtered through the wife's make-up removing pads << this is where the danger lies. Whilst highly unlikely, I still risked my life in this shot; I forgot to swab the 3 tablets and the pads, whilst clean, are definitely not sterile, either. Now that I mention it, I forgot to swab my fingers and the inside of the (very) clean receptacle that help the pills in solution.

The MD wasn't meant for injection and the whole "shebang" is yet another tiny compromise that compounds the pathogens that currently compromise my bone marrow.

It all gets to be an obsession and this act could be the catalyst that fucks your life up s never, ever lose sight of that fact.

sfgiant
08-01-2012, 01:05 PM
That happened to me too for a few months OP. Eventually I found some new veins and the ones that originally registered but still missed came back around

Seedy
08-01-2012, 04:21 PM
try a bigger guage needle. they'll sit in place better, less risk of going straight through the vein, etc. this advice has made my shots much easier.

More Feen
08-01-2012, 07:18 PM
try a bigger guage needle. they'll sit in place better, less risk of going straight through the vein, etc. this advice has made my shots much easier.

Yeah, I think Seedy hit the nail on the head.

At least in my experience, if I have a situation like yours, its from using too small of a needle. About 80% of the time, small guages (27-30) work okay, when they don't, I typically have to swtich to a 25 guage needle to get things to go right.

Also DAK is accurate about any shifting of your hand position (from drawing to register :: to pushing for injection). If you're in a small vein, a change of even a millimeter in most directions can cause the needle's tip to leave the vein's lumen.

Most veins will contract even more when they're irritated; like during the act of shoving a metal spike into them!

M F

sfgiant
08-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Also DAK is accurate about any shifting of your hand position (from drawing to register :: to pushing for injection). If you're in a small vein, a change of even a millimeter in most directions can cause the needle's tip to leave the vein's lumen.

Most veins will contract even more when they're irritated; like during the act of shoving a metal spike into them!

M F
If the OP is having the same issues I was then the problem wasn't with moving just enough for the needle to slip out or go right through, the issue is actively registering blood as normal but when injecting feeling the sting of missing. When it was happening with me, it would happen regardless of how still I kept my hand & careful/slow I was injecting. I'd start to inject, feel the sting, pull the plunger back & register blood--I never had to pull the entire needle back & push it forward as if it had slipped out. Blood would register in the same place as the stinging during injection. IDK, I've tried to explain it here before but it's so odd that I can't really think of a good explanation. It's almost as if the vein wants blood & only blood in it. A leaky vein is the best way to describe it but it's not the same as a leaky vein there's something different about it, the pain isn't further up the vein like it's leaking but at the spot where the needle is while registering blood. Iono.

I already posted it before but all I can say, again, is to find some new veins to inject in while you let your regular places heal -- I did that & eventually I wasn't having that problem anymore when I switched back to those veins. Oh and I guess I should mention, the stinging I felt wasn't as intense as the stinging of a miss but it still hurt enough to make me find new spots

tui
08-01-2012, 08:51 PM
I know exactly what you mean, because it happens to me too. It sucks. I hate wasting a hit with passion.

It's almost as if there are blood clots under the surface from previous damage, and you're drawing that up instead of hitting a vein. That's what I always guessed it was, but entropy's response sounds feasible too...


if you've been digging around for a while then are suddenly able to "register", you're probably registering blood that has formed in a small hematoma (pocket of blood) under the skin. when you dig around for so long, blood pools under the skin. if it burns/stings when you inject, you're probably not even in a vein. you may have hit a vein at one point, and the vein is now bleeding under your skin, but you're probably not in a vein. the absence of a rush = you missed the shot.


Also, Makita's response about the warm towel is a good trick.

I often use a hot water bottle on the area for as long as possible. It helps with the pain of the miss and makes the liquid disperse faster, so it's less likely to cause an abscess.

The Ryan
08-02-2012, 11:01 AM
IME when veins do this they are very close to death, leave them alone for a few months and try to find another vein.

and someone said jugular injection would go straight to the brain, I believe this is incorrect as all veins lead to the heart, right?

jugular/femoral injections are dangerous, but if you have a rig full of blood about to clog up and you can't find a vein, the femoral and jugular are very easy to hit first try.

blinky89
08-02-2012, 12:03 PM
IME when veins do this they are very close to death, leave them alone for a few months and try to find another vein.

and someone said jugular injection would go straight to the brain, I believe this is incorrect as all veins lead to the heart, right?

jugular/femoral injections are dangerous, but if you have a rig full of blood about to clog up and you can't find a vein, the femoral and jugular are very easy to hit first try.


this is correct...ALL vein return to the heart. as well as ALL veins contain deoxygenated blood EXCEPT the pulmonary veins, which carry oxygenated blood from the lungs back to the heart.

what they are talking about is probably the carotid arteries which are right next to the jugular. and from what ive gathered, shooting into arteries is always painful since arteries are already pressurized. while reading the OP, it kinda made me wonder if she was shooting into an artery??? esp since she said it was deep under the skin and always registered and is always painful.

OP: when you register, does very light, bright red blood come out? or is it dark, deep red blood? if its the first, then i could think that you could possibly be sticking an artery

The Ryan
08-02-2012, 12:47 PM
she would know if she hit an artery, I'm pretty sure her arm would blow up like 2x normal size...

but I have hit an artery one time (didn't inject, just registered). It looked like bright red blood clots entering the rig when I registered.

OP, your blood is almost black when you register? and droops in very slowly? If so I think the vein just needs a rest.

tarqueen
08-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Wow I had no idea I would get so many thoughtful responses. Thank you all. Here's the answer to this to start:

0. IV or IM usually ? IV almost always unless the syringe gets clotted enough that nothing will go through, then I add water, move into a 3 cc syringe and muscle it.
1. How old are you ? I just turned 21 years old and have been shooting up for almost three years and using on and off other ways since I was 16.
2. You're female, I assume. Female, correct
3. How long have you injected ? ~3 years
4. What have you injected ? Black tar only, one night I tried coke and never need to IM that again.
5. What are you injecting ? Black tar, it's really grimy quality at $25 per g I'll usually do .5-.75 per shot depending on how much I can fit in the needle.
6. Where are you injecting ? Currently my arms (hands mostly) are the only places I can find veins, occasionally a vein on my foot but it comes and goes.
7. Approximate amount of injections, to the nearest 1000 ? I have no idea, including the amount of pokes without actually hitting probably a lot!
8. What guage, length and barrel size ? 1 cc 1/2 28 (these are the standard from the needle exchange)
9. How much water do you use ? I usually plop in a .5g-.75g of tar and fill up a spoon 2/3 full of water.
10. Are you using stimulants ? No stimulants
11. Are you on any medication ? I take Welbutrin 200 mg
12. Do you use a tournquet, when do you release it ? Yes it would be impossible for me without one, I untie with my teeth after I register and before I shoot. Made the mistake once of shooting without releasing the tourniquet and I won't make that mistake again, wayyy worse than simply "missing" it was like my vein exploded.
13. What areas do you inject in ? Hands/arms

I don't really know what you guys mean when you say "applying pressure to the rig" so it doesn't move around at all. I always watch carefully the amount of the needle sticking out, it's easy to slip back and forth and if I try and remember the exact length coming out it's easier to reposition when it slips as I move from testing it to trying to push it in. It almost feels like a two person job for me, like I don't have enough hands to keep it steady, test, and inject. Also oftentimes if I don't untie the tourniquet gently enough the whole thing slips, and it's pretty easy to do that also.

It is so incredibly frustrating, the whole act sometimes takes as long as a half hour to an hour and I turn into a giant bitch if it goes on for too long. Shooting up always used to just be fun. Now it's still fun I guess, just because I'm always excited about what's coming next and I just like the idea of the needle I guess, but it's so filled with pain and frustration it drives me bonkers. Sometimes I use with my boyfriend and every little movement or sound he makes makes me fume as time goes by and I fail again and again.

I just don't understand why I register and then inject and it still stings and creates a weird bubble rash which usually turns white and is numb. I'm pretty sure it's actually registering and not just a bubble of blood under the surface..there's something about the pressure/suction when I register that I always recognize the familiar way it looks and feels. But lately, I'll register and then push in and it'll sting and I'll recheck, sting again, recheck, and then I just do the whole thing. If the best I can get is registering one time out of 20 pokes and it still stings when it goes in I usually just take it hoping at least enough will go in to make the whole process worth it.

My veins are really small and don't stick out at all, usually I'm shooting mostly in the dark, like I can just barely feel a vein somewhere under there and guess where it is and stick it. The only ones that stick out at all are so hard I don't know how to get anything in there.

oddler
08-02-2012, 08:41 PM
5. What are you injecting ? Black tar, it's really grimy quality at $25 per g I'll usually do .5-.75 per shot depending on how much I can fit in the needle.

I won't claim to be an expert but DrugsForCats was telling me in a VM about how how Seattle dope is soo nasty that kids are losing their veins before they even have tracks sometimes.

I am a few hours south of you but I have tried the dope up there, this old junkie lady told me she could get me an eight ball for $40 or $50 and I was like bullshit but sure enough she came back with something that kind of resembled heroin.

Anyway, it is weird that you are registering and still missing--but it is possible that maybe that $25 a g dope is really fucking up your veins. Just my .02.

1cc 28g rigs are my fucking jam so I doubt that's the problem. Hands can be pretty hard to hit though (for me) with a 28g. But anything less than a full cc probably couldn't fit enough Seattle tar to get you loaded... fucking bummer. Switch sites if you can find something and if you're not already, make sure to reregister after you untie your tourniquet.

safe shooting!

toker253
08-03-2012, 02:41 AM
Off-topic but you really need to find some of the pure dope that's taken over the area. Runs about 10 bucks a point but well worth it. I have not ran across any off the that garbage dope you get in a long time. I thought it went the way of the dinosaur, but I guess not. It will definitely save you some life on those veins

tarqueen
08-03-2012, 09:41 AM
I'm not really one to ask random bums downtown or on the hill, and the only person I know who uses is my guy who has the $25/g stuff. I don't know any junkies or anyone who even dabbles besides him and people I associate with him. I can meet him at his house so there's little risk which is a big fear of mine, I'd rather get to know my guys and not cop on the street. The one time I met a guy who had stuff that was better I met him in a car, and after a few minutes a cop started following us. I bailed out once I was pretty sure someone was going to get busted and don't know what happened to them..but my car and street copping experiences have scared me enough that I would much rather be invited inside. Plus I'm a pretty and innocent looking girl so no one suspects anything when I pop in a building.