Neutralising PT and fresh vs dry pods.

[Seedy]

OK, we've already established that using white vinegar makes a much more potent cuppa tea, but it's pretty hard on the stomach lining. Can anyone who studied chemistry past the age of 15 tell me if using baking soda to neutralise the tea will undo the reaction made by using vinegar? I know that acid + base = salt + water. I am also pretty sure that morphine sulphate is morphine in a salt form which makes it more stable and gives better bio availability (but I might be wrong). Will using baking soda in PT (last step I imagine) change the morphine into a different form of salt?

And I'm also wondering if there's any difference in using fresh vs dry pods. I don't imagine it would make a difference but All the recipies I've read use dried ones.

Thanks in advance!

[Narkotikon]

I'm not sure about the baking soda. I assume it would help, but I could be wrong. Have you tried using another acid? Maybe Apple Cider Vinegar or lemon juice would be better for your stomach. Also, you could use the Tagament to help with the additional acid produced in your stomach, since you're putting extra into it. Plus, that will help potentiate the tea.

Fresh pods are much better than dried pods in my opinion. They just seem to be more potent. It's not easy to get fresh ones though.

[Seedy]

I'm not sure about the baking soda. I assume it would help, but I could be wrong. Have you tried using another acid? Maybe Apple Cider Vinegar or lemon juice would be better for your stomach. Also, you could use the Tagament to help with the additional acid produced in your stomach, since you're putting extra into it. Plus, that will help potentiate the tea.

Fresh pods are much better than dried pods in my opinion. They just seem to be more potent. It's not easy to get fresh ones though.

I had a good read through the Pure vinegar extract-BREAKTHROUGH!! thread, which seemed to conclude that white vinegar was the one with the right acid to convert the morphine into something much stronger. I've yet to find out what the equivalent of tagamet is called here in New Zealand. Haven't looked too hard, though. I think now would be the time to find out as there'll be plenty of fresh pods around here for the next couple of months!:D

[vaxn8]

Ya know Seedy, after trying many, many many recipes for tea with vinegar or without, with lemon juice or without, with alcohol or without, every temp variation and variation in extraction time I have to be honest with you I don't belive vinegar does a damn thing other than make it taste like shit.

As for your question, if you added baking soda you would neutralize the acidity of the vinegar, but I believe you would make the taste even worse. After all the testing i've done and all the methods i've used and all the opinions I've read, I've found the easiest method is also the best.

I've been meaning to write it out or get someone else to. The credit for this would go to Flipside, it was her wise suggestion that made me try this last and now my permanent recipe, and it is as follows....


Get Blender Out
Start a cup to 2 cups of water boiling on stove or microwave
Crush pods over blender (if seeded- remove seeds and discard or plant or do whatever)
Turn blender on highest setting
Watch pods turn to powder
watch water start to boil, once it starts to bubble (doesn't have to reach a full boil) pull it out of the microwave and add to blender.
For each 4 pods crushed add approximately 3/4 cups water (177.4 ml) this will vary according to pod size but you want pods moist and a little extra water, not tons though.
Turn blender on low speed to mix it up for 5-10 seconds or until thoroughly mixed
watch it brew for 30 minutes or go back to bed for 30 minutes
strain with your cloth of choice
Drink hot, hits ya fastOK, I can do this (prepare this recipe) in 5 minutes max, and that included heating the water. It makes the best tea I have ever tasted. I haven't tried sweetening with lemon, but think those that enjoy the flavor would like the lemon added to the final brew. Drinking it hot makes it hit faster than anything else I've tried. You don't have the shitty taste of vinegar or other kitchen chemicals. It is easy and fast and doesn't burn up your coffee grinder. It extracts more of the goods than anything else that I've tried.

For the reasoning... Morph and codeine as well as the other alkaloids that we're trying to pull out are all extremely water soluble. In hot water, this is only increased. If you are allowing your blender to do a good job of grinding, there is no need to assist the extraction... it is more of a dissolution than true extraction. There is no benefit to getting it in an acidic solution... just no reason for it. It's perfectly happy in water and I believe the only things that should be added are personal things that you like the taste of. I think anything added should also only be done at the end, such as lemon (a squirt, you don't need tons like some recipes call for), or mint or honey or whatever you like in tea. Prepared this way, it tastes much more like a tea than shit and dirt!

Give it a shot! After many tries with many variables, this is my final answer.......

[insanesteveo]

thats pretty much how i do it too vax. ive tried everything as well, and easiest DOES seem to be best. although i just add hot water from the tap, and dont bother getting it close to boiling.
the best way to get it down if it is REALLY strong and vile, is to chug it then to take a swig of mouthwash to get the taste out, plus it gets your teeth clean :)

[alowishus]

I had a good read through the Pure vinegar extract-BREAKTHROUGH!! thread, which seemed to conclude that white vinegar was the one with the right acid to convert the morphine into something much stronger. I've yet to find out what the equivalent of tagamet is called here in New Zealand. Haven't looked too hard, though. I think now would be the time to find out as there'll be plenty of fresh pods around here for the next couple of months!:D


Speedy look for any OTC drugs w/ cimetidine as the main or only one. Thats what tag is. Insofar as the vinegar; well I can't do that taste, tried, no no no uh uhn, no way. I drink the grounds anyway, or well used to, mr wagon boy now, DIE-en-ING for a buzz.

[slugbone]

thats a good recipie vax. since the past few monhts i have gone the DD method and just grind up pods and drink it in a cup of white grapefruit juice. igve didsovered the method is fas and dirty. as a matter of fact i am getting hit pretty hard with it right now.

i gess straining and all that mumbo jumbo became too complicated for my addict brain, the slugde doesnt taste too good but sometimes at work i even just chew up a pod then drink it down wth some coffee.

[alowishus]

thats a good recipie vax. since the past few monhts i have gone the DD method and just grind up pods and drink it in a cup of white grapefruit juice. igve didsovered the method is fas and dirty. as a matter of fact i am getting hit pretty hard with it right now.

i gess straining and all that mumbo jumbo became too complicated for my addict brain, the slugde doesnt taste too good but sometimes at work i even just chew up a pod then drink it down wth some coffee.


Slug what do you mean "getting hit pretty hard with it right now" that how I've done it for about 2 years before I stopped, just wondered what you meant?

I got really sick of all the stuff involed w/ the making of tea too, but I don't think I could just chew pods then wash it down w/ anything......:vomit:

[Seedy]

Thanks Vax and Flipside. I've been looking for a definative recipe from someone with some sound chemistry knowledge. I got to say I'm pretty pleased to know that vinegar makes no difference, that's some vile tasting shit!

And alowishus, thanks for the advice. I've found out that cimetadine isn't available OTC in New Zealand, but ranitidine is and I think it does the same job.

[vaxn8]

^ I also meant to add that the other way that is going to make the strongest and also be super easy would be the drinking the ground methods. If ya can choke them down, it's a great way to make sure you're not wasting anything.

I actally like the taste of it now, and i don't use anything other than water. All the horrible taste that made me have to slam it in the past was due to the random kitchen chemicals. It tastes kind of like tea, that is not really tea flavored. I know that doesn't make any sense, but that's how i'd describe it.

[insanesteveo]

^ I also meant to add that the other way that is going to make the strongest and also be super easy would be the drinking the ground methods. If ya can choke them down, it's a great way to make sure you're not wasting anything.

I actally like the taste of it now, and i don't use anything other than water. All the horrible taste that made me have to slam it in the past was due to the random kitchen chemicals. It tastes kind of like tea, that is not really tea flavored. I know that doesn't make any sense, but that's how i'd describe it.

im a chef, or now im just a cook at a shitty place, but today i was cutting up romaine lettuce, and for some reason, the romaine smelled exactly like a cup of tea. and damn that made me want one more and more. fucking lettuce.

[Seedy]

im a chef, or now im just a cook at a shitty place, but today i was cutting up romaine lettuce, and for some reason, the romaine smelled exactly like a cup of tea. and damn that made me want one more and more. fucking lettuce.

Lettuce is one pointless stupid vegetable!

[alowishus]

I actally like the taste of it now, and i don't use anything other than water.

I don't see how you can do that, I've tryed the water thing and the grounds float, it's too gritty, I have to use a thick kind of drinkable thing.....ya I said that......the last pods I got when I was making tea, and I wouldn't add anything it tasted just like asian tea, good stuff. I'm sure it was just the batch though.


Lettuce is one pointless stupid vegetable!

I love a tossed salad now and then.



*sorry, man, I had too:D that was TOO easy*

[kyuss]

I've been chugging
the grinds with gf and vinegar
after popping a couple tagamet
for about a week

I usually mix it
and then chug it
the next morning


This morning
I had my dose
without Vinegar
and I got just as high

[vaxn8]

I don't see how you can do that, I've tryed the water thing and the grounds float, it's too gritty, I have to use a thick kind of drinkable thing.....ya I said that......the last pods I got when I was making tea, and I wouldn't add anything it tasted just like asian tea, good stuff. I'm sure it was just the batch though.


I'm not sure I'm following you Alow- why are your grounds floating? If you used 3/4 cup water for 4 med to large pods, it is a very thick mixture and nothing is going to be floating. You're right about pod source also, some vendors have shitty tasting pods and nothing is going to make them taste good. Eliminating the vinegar does make a huge improvement though!

I've been chugging
the grinds with gf and vinegar
after popping a couple tagamet
for about a week
This morning
I had my dose
without Vinegar
and I got just as high

Totally correct, there just is no reason to add it. Even if you felt the acid made a difference, you're already adding a weak acid (citric acid) from the juice. Acetic acid is also a weak acid, no major difference between the two. When you're drinking everything like you are, you don't even care how much you're pulling out of the grounds, you're going to get it all anyway!

[devilsdrug]

straight gf for me , i hardly ever do tea its like why, anyway i was using vinegar for my tea long before i ever found this site , i just did it because in my semi chem background i knew of acetic anhydride bla bla bla bla, and of course we all know now without the ah u aint gettin nuthin extra to happen , so just drink away

[alowishus]

I'm not sure I'm following you Alow- why are your grounds floating?


It's a viscosity thing, I use gf or orange pineapple banana stuff, w/ a gf chaser of course, but that stuff is much thicker and it blends well w/ the grounds. The last time I did water when I was just starting this ride, LONG time ago, so I had to learn some things by doing and failing, and water was one. Just couldn't drink it that way, body wouldn't let me.

I once got these pods from a "real" dried flower place, those were the worst, most dry heaving, gut clenching tatsing pods ever. They must have been sitting in potpourri cuz that's how they tatsed.:(

[Narkotikon]

Ya know Seedy, after trying many, many many recipes for tea with vinegar or without, with lemon juice or without, with alcohol or without, every temp variation and variation in extraction time I have to be honest with you I don't belive vinegar does a damn thing other than make it taste like shit.

As for your question, if you added baking soda you would neutralize the acidity of the vinegar, but I believe you would make the taste even worse. After all the testing i've done and all the methods i've used and all the opinions I've read, I've found the easiest method is also the best.

I've been meaning to write it out or get someone else to. The credit for this would go to Flipside, it was her wise suggestion that made me try this last and now my permanent recipe, and it is as follows....

Get Blender Out
Start a cup to 2 cups of water boiling on stove or microwave
Crush pods over blender (if seeded- remove seeds and discard or plant or do whatever)
Turn blender on highest setting
Watch pods turn to powder
watch water start to boil, once it starts to bubble (doesn't have to reach a full boil) pull it out of the microwave and add to blender.
For each 4 pods crushed add approximately 3/4 cups water (177.4 ml) this will vary according to pod size but you want pods moist and a little extra water, not tons though.
Turn blender on low speed to mix it up for 5-10 seconds or until thoroughly mixed
watch it brew for 30 minutes or go back to bed for 30 minutes
strain with your cloth of choice
Drink hot, hits ya fastOK, I can do this (prepare this recipe) in 5 minutes max, and that included heating the water. It makes the best tea I have ever tasted. I haven't tried sweetening with lemon, but think those that enjoy the flavor would like the lemon added to the final brew. Drinking it hot makes it hit faster than anything else I've tried. You don't have the shitty taste of vinegar or other kitchen chemicals. It is easy and fast and doesn't burn up your coffee grinder. It extracts more of the goods than anything else that I've tried.

For the reasoning... Morph and codeine as well as the other alkaloids that we're trying to pull out are all extremely water soluble. In hot water, this is only increased. If you are allowing your blender to do a good job of grinding, there is no need to assist the extraction... it is more of a dissolution than true extraction. There is no benefit to getting it in an acidic solution... just no reason for it. It's perfectly happy in water and I believe the only things that should be added are personal things that you like the taste of. I think anything added should also only be done at the end, such as lemon (a squirt, you don't need tons like some recipes call for), or mint or honey or whatever you like in tea. Prepared this way, it tastes much more like a tea than shit and dirt!

Give it a shot! After many tries with many variables, this is my final answer.......

Yeah, this is almost verbatim as to my own dealings with tea. I usually put about 4-5 cups of water in a medium sized sauce pan, heat until almost boiling, take 20-30 pods (depending on what I want to achieve), grind up until fine in a blender, add to the water, then I add a little orange juice and let steep for about 30 minutes off of the heat source. I then strain and then drink about 2 cups, then another after an hour and so on. I then sometimes do a second steeping with more orange juice and less water. I mainly add the orange juice for flavoring, but also for the acidity. I used to use lemon juice, but it tasted terrible. I can't imagine using vinegar.

[vaxn8]

I mainly add the orange juice for flavoring, but also for the acidity.

Are you drinking it hot or cold? If you're wanting the OJ for flavor, there's no reason to add it during the brew. There is no reason at all to add any type of acid. Personally, I wouldn't want to drink juice that had been sitting on the counter for any length of time- but that's just me it shouldn't go bad in a half hour. You can obivously add whatever you like to your tea, I wasn't sure i had made that completely clear about the acid in my earlier stuff, so i wanted to write it out that way, i.e. "there is no reason at all to add acid to any type of brewed recipe- anything needed for flavor can be added fresh before drinking post-filtering"

[Narkotikon]

Are you drinking it hot or cold? If you're wanting the OJ for flavor, there's no reason to add it during the brew. There is no reason at all to add any type of acid. Personally, I wouldn't want to drink juice that had been sitting on the counter for any length of time- but that's just me it shouldn't go bad in a half hour. You can obivously add whatever you like to your tea, I wasn't sure i had made that completely clear about the acid in my earlier stuff, so i wanted to write it out that way, i.e. "there is no reason at all to add acid to any type of brewed recipe- anything needed for flavor can be added fresh before drinking post-filtering"

I mainly add the OJ in the beginning because in my mind it cools the water down in case it's too hot and ruins some of the alkaloids. Plus, I've just always read that there should be at least some acid in the liquid. Yeah, it's not like I let it sit out for hours or anything. Most of the time I can't wait 30 minutes, so it's really more like 15.

[vaxn8]

^if it makes you feel better, by all means stick with it. I just wanted to make you aware though, that pouring boiling water into the grounds will not damage any of the good stuff! If you like the taste of the juice, stick with that too, but there is no need to acidify the water. We're dealing with stuff that is very water soluble and has no problems going into solution. I do understand the need for "rituals" though, I just like to let others know what is and what is not necessary in case they don't like some aspect of the protocol!

[Narkotikon]

^if it makes you feel better, by all means stick with it. I just wanted to make you aware though, that pouring boiling water into the grounds will not damage any of the good stuff! If you like the taste of the juice, stick with that too, but there is no need to acidify the water. We're dealing with stuff that is very water soluble and has no problems going into solution. I do understand the need for "rituals" though, I just like to let others know what is and what is not necessary in case they don't like some aspect of the protocol!


No problem at all. Really, I do just use the orange juice for flavoring. I mean, if I run out and in need, I'll make it without the OJ and just gag on it while it goes down. I've sort of developed a taste for poppy tea without flavoring, but if I had to choose, I'd put the OJ in it. The acidity thing is just a mental comfort. To be honest, I've not really noticed a difference between tea made with or without OJ. I think the most important part is having enough water to fully extract the goodies. I really don't measure it, I just sort of wing it. The only bad thing I have to say about tea is how it's such a bitch when you have to use so many pods. I mean, I see posts about people saying they use 5 table spoons or something like that. It makes me jealous. Or maybe it's just nostalgia of a time when I could nod on 5 pods. I know that there's a crop shortage and stuff, but my god. It's not so bad because I've found a better vendor, but when I was ordering from the transplants, it was just getting ridiculous. I mean, you now see on Ebay their stuff for ridiculous prices. Like 40 jumbos (which hardly are jumbos) for $80. I mean, if I spent that kind of money, I should just go out and have a full blown heroin habbit.

[insanesteveo]

i just have to say that i totally understand what vaxn8 is saying. i also know she knows her shit and is probably right. now with that said, in the past i have made tea with JUST the gf juice, no water. extracted that way. cold. and when i do that, the second extractions are MUCH weaker than when i just use water. my only explanation is that the gf juice does a better job of getting all the crap out of the pods in the first swoop. this is even when i dont get them really powdered. not big chunks, but now powder. i usually dont do it anymore because it takes FOREVER to strain through the coffee filter, but it seemed like i only had to do two extracts as most with gf juice, and at least 3 or 4 with water.

although, if your grounds are fine enough, and you use enough water, you should get most in the first extract anyways. morphine has a great solubility in water, but there are other things coming out of the tea that are also water soluble that are lowering how much morphine that water can hold. is that right vax? im not sure im thinking right.