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View Full Version : vitex, opioid activity. chaste tree "opioidopaminergic"


jacky
10-29-2006, 01:16 PM
I know I have posted about this plant before, but it is an amazing enough plant medicinal, and recently I have been experimenting more with some isolates and whole extracts.

the plant is relevant to "us" as an opioid active, with dopaminergic qualitys as well.

the plant is psychoactive beyond the herbalists description of the plant as a hormonal balancer, sedative etc. The first time I took herbpharms'* tincture of chaste tree(vitex agnus castus) I experienced a glowing stimulation, and my hands felt electrified, pulsing almost.

I became interested in the plant after doing google searches on words like "opioid" etc. I quickly noticed that a group of Swiss researchers attribute the diterpene portion of the plant with kappa, mu, and dopaminergic binding inhibition. particularly the D2 receptors are mentioned. I have also read a report of the delta receptors being involved possibly opposed to the mu opioid agonist effect, or at least the report didnt mention the mu receptors as being involved. I was pretty excited at the time, and quickly went to my local co-op and bought a pound of this "monks pepper".

earlier sources list this plants dried fruit/seed kernel as an ANaphrodisiac, there are plenty of historical references to this, but I have also read the opposite, that the plant can have an aphrodisiac effect as well. One contact of mine, reported the ingestion of an amount of isolated chaste tree diterpene/alkaloid material was quite sexually stimulating.
I would imagine that the opioid activity of the plant over time might have some effect of depressing a persons sex drive, especially if the mu active portion of the plant could be isolated and consumed.

So I was eager to report this to a contact at the time, who was a good enough chemist, with the right equipment and knowhow to do some further studying of the plant material. I sent him 3 pounds of the berries, and waited.
The good chemist was busy, but three years later when he moved into a larger lab space, he asked me if I was still interested."Hell yes". A few weeks later and I had an initial sample of a gummy material. with no other real explanation. I supposed it was the diterpene compounds.
after vaporizing 5-10 milligrams , I experienced a quite and intense rush, stimulant in nature, with some definite nitrous oxide like mental effects, or vaugely cannabis like mental and visual effects.
I was very excited, but as I only had 85 milligrams of this material I wasnt excited for too long.
The next sample was a larger amount of a green powder, the apparent diterpene isolates, and a smaller amount of similiar gummy material, described as an alkaloid, that I had previously tested.
BOTH were psychoactive, though the alkaloid material seemed much more the dopamine stimulant compared to the aromatic green diterpene compound.
Both of the two different isolate types were very divine smoke flavors, and it comes to me that I think somewhere I read that the chaste tree has been used as a tobacco flavoring commercially and historically.
The yields of the plants compounds I do not know, only that the alkaloid seems to be at least 1/3 to 1/10 the yeild compared to the diterpene.

Over time I seem to have built a tolerance to the effect of the diterpene, but it still has some effects on me when consumed in the 20-100 milligram range. I am reluctant to say just what diterpenes are contained in this isolate, as the chemist hasnt done any further quantification of the material that I know of, but a quick google on rotun-difuran should get you a link on the different diterpenes. the alkaloid material might be the described as the alkaloid viticin, but same thing there, the chemist I dont think has done any comparitive analytical work on this compound.

I would expect the dopaminergic qualitys to be described as relating to the alkaloid viticin, but I havnt found anything yet describing that. Most of the sources I have looked over seem to relate the dopaminergic qualitys are being caused by certian diterpenes.
I dont really have an idea of what is going on, maybe the impurities in the two different isolates are mixed, or maybe the opioid activity is also causing dopamine release or stimulation? similiar to the "paradoxical stimulation" effect of certian mu/kappa opioids. I would think the alkaloid material I investigated would be the major dopaminergic. The diterpene material having mainly kappa and other opioid effect.

When taking certian doses of the mixed diterpene/alkaloid isolate material, when vaporized, I notice some relaxation, and what feels like mild nitrous oxide like feelings.
Recently I read that cannabis has some effect on the kappa opioid system, I would think that earlier on when taking cannabis certian mental effects might be attributed to the kappa opioid stimulation, and similiar to salvinorin a's effect that can sometimes in the lower doses be cannabis like, maybe chaste tree's effects could be compared to that of mild cannabis inebriation? I think I have experienced such effects, even with sublingual ethanol extracts that I was taking 2-3 years ago.

This is an exciting plant to research, even though I have never re-experienced the intensity of the first few trials of smoking the alkaloid, I still can feel the plants effects. While I was on buprenorphine awhile back, I noticed late at night that I needed to take more buprenorphine, but I smoked the diterpene material instead, on carrier herbs,(NOT cannabis!) and then relaxed. I completely passed out in a comfort bliss state, and didnt take bup. till the morning!

Lately I forgoe smoking cannabis late at night, especially cause it seems to cause some insomnia/stuffy nose/sinuses. I have instead been smoking a little of the mixed alkaloid/diterpene material that I have left, it is not the same experience as cannabis, but I find it more relaxing. The smoke is pleasant, depending on the carrier, I suggest corn silk/corn silk powder and mullien leaf mixture for some further soothing effects.

I will have more to report on this research, but I am tired of typing for now.



* herbpharm is a company in eugene that makes a real nice, clear chaste tree tincture. you shouldnt pay more than 8$ for a 30 millilitre bottle. This stuff is quite active at a couple of dropper fulls. I also make my own tincture by soaking the chaste berries, ground up, in vodka. I think the high water content might be important here, to loosen cell structures and possibly soak up more psychoactivity...also,one report that I saw, the one by the Swiss research group, states that the aqueous portion of a methanol extract carried more of a mu opioid effect, so I suppose, and this is a big conjecture on my part, that some mu effect might be carried into the water similiarly in an ethanol/water mix.

insaneike
11-09-2006, 01:12 PM
DAMN GOOD READ, MAN!!!

I'm very interested in hearing more about this plant, and gonna actualy be doing some research now pretty soon on it...

I seriously think this truly is a damn good read!

later

SpecialGuy69
11-09-2006, 02:51 PM
Jacky- you are one seriously smart dude. Much respect! I'm very interested- I really like reading your herbal write-ups- almost everywhere you read about these exotic herbs, it's either someone trying to sell you the stuff (obviously self-interested, tend to exaggerate the effects) or a kid making do with what he has (and confuses any psychoactivity for feeling high).

So, it's really nice to read a write-up from someone who is both knowledgable and neutral. Thanks for the interesting read!

jacky
11-10-2006, 04:49 AM
I wouldnt say I am neutral, but I am somewhat concerned with integrity...

thanks for the comments.

feel free to PM me for more information, source information, and any questions you might have.

also, if you have any information that might help my research fire away.

there are some amazing plants out there. right now I am on the trail of another opioid active herb. ordered some plants from a nursery this week, so in a few weeks I should have a brand new bio-assay!!

and soon another project that I have been toying with for a few years MIGHT be a little closer to being realized.....
a freind of mine is extracting some dalea purpurea roots that I sent him, he has alot of chemistry equipment to do this the right way.` he is growing some 60 dalea purpurea plants under lights this winter, so much more material will be available for research in awhile. dalea purpurea is a flower similiar to echinacea, it contains some purported opioid activity, and also has a history of human usage as a tonic plant and for diarrhea control and for fevers. sounds very promising? the active compounds have even been targeted as gerynyl stillbenes or similair spelling.

in a few months I hope to have some rough draft zine type publications outlining some of my interests.

flipside
11-10-2006, 08:47 AM
Sounds promising indeed. After reading your post I've done a lot of research and am anxious to hear your results. This is an area I am definatley going to look into exploring personally.

jacky
11-10-2006, 12:50 PM
thanks flipside.

I want to mention, since you are female and all, that the combination of chaste tree and damiana can have a profoundly positive effect on certian females menstrual cycles.

my wife has taken damiana and chaste tree before during problematic symptoms of her menstrual cycle, and in those crisis times it is really the only thing that works.

I am sure that it might smooth out some males bitchy hissy fits as well?

last night I smoked a combination of chaste tree diterpene and salvia divinorum....the combination seems to be more euphoric for me than just salvia alone. I was hoping that that would be the case. probably around 25 milligrams of chaste tree diterpene, and 200 milligrams of a salvia 5x extract. slipped to sleep during the "process" and woke up quite comfortable 1 hour and a half later.

flipside
11-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Hey Jacky, thanks. love the comment about hissy males LOL! Seriously though this is really exciting to me, I have a question about whether or not this would be sfae for my adult daughter to use for the purpose stated above, as she is not a recreational user, but does use opies to manage a CP condition occasionaly. I am concerned about safety, etc, I will PM you with more personal details. Thanks again!

jacky
11-10-2006, 01:16 PM
I would suggest that you get two different products for your daughter....

herbpharms tincture extract, which is a light yellow extract of chaste tree....

and whole chaste tree seeds.

she might get slightly different effects with trying a water infusion of the ground berries.

and the herbpharm tincture is one of the best products I have tried. it is seriously potent.

I gave some to a female freind who had been bedridden all day with the flu....kids running around, chaos, you probably know better than me. anyway, she took 2 droppers of the herbpharm tincture, and 20 - 40 minutes later she was up vacuuming the house at 10pm, she was gleaming cause she felt GREAT.

the first time me and and my wife tried the tincture, we called each other 50 minutes after dosing, cause we were both feeling it strongly, more stimulation, and pulsing energy in the hands, it was pronounced!

remybur12
11-10-2006, 01:43 PM
What all could I do with opium poppy seeds besides growing them?:)

flipside
11-10-2006, 01:55 PM
You might get more responses if you posted this in the P somnif section Or try using the search engine.