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View Full Version : Switching from MMT to Subs, Appt on July 12th.



OC Rockets
06-23-2012, 10:15 AM
I am currently on MMT at my local Methadone clinic, but I'm trying to switch to suboxone. I have an appointment with a Sub doctor on July 12th. I read that I would have to detox from methadone before I switch to subs in order to prevent precipitated W/Ds, right?

Well, right now my methadone dose is at 80 mg. July 12th is 18 days away. My question is should I start tapering now? If so how low of a dose should I try and get down to prior to my Sub appointment?

Or should I just wait until I go to my appointment on the 12th before I start detoxing? Any advice?

blackman
06-23-2012, 10:25 AM
If it were me, I would start tapering now. But still, that's a lot of done to be on to think about making a switch to subs.

My advice would be to take some time and taper down to below 30mg and reassess your situation then.

OC Rockets
06-23-2012, 11:23 AM
Well the thing is I've only been on MMT for 3 weeks now. I went from 30 mg to 40 to 50 to 60 to 65, then waited a week before I went to 70, then 80 last week. I've only been on 80 for 5 days now (I almost went to 90 today, tho, just her the hell of it, but decided not to ;)).

So I would think it would be easier for me to taper at this point because I just started taking methadone 3 weeks ago, right?

I just want to switch to from 'dones to subs as quick as possible and I am wondering what would be the easiest method.

blackman
06-23-2012, 12:20 PM
Can I ask why you'd rather be on bupe than methadone so badly? I mean, what changed in the last three weeks since you've started your methadone that made you want to switch?

Just1Fix
06-23-2012, 12:29 PM
If I was in your boat, I'd stay aboard... I been on subs 3 years and it sucks. Its a really manageable lifestyle(pending the doc- cause most are in it for the $$$) Where I'm at now blows- my old dr was the shit, but he quit the sub prog- he rx'd 60 and a refill, so even at 16mg, saw him once every 2 months. I got it to once every 3 months with tabs, the films are just pure bullshit meds.. 1/2 life is short(not that anyone else will say that) but you in NV, its hotter there than philly, and I swear I sweat that shit out fast while laboring when 80+ out... It feels like I absorb less bupe per film than tabs too.. If your doc is goin film- don't... I had myself to 8mg a day on tabs, been on 16mg film and doc cut me to 12mg & it don't quite work as well as tabs did...This new doc also labs UA's and I get the bill, and requires I see a therapist for 'suboxin therapy'(their spelling) so yea....Subs not quite the good life, and while I ain't shootin smack(daily) I sure as hell ain't lookin forward to sub w/d...FYI, on 3rd dr w subs and 2 of said drs are $$$ seeking(weekly visits etc)

Most comparisons I've seen are 16mg sub = 30mg done and IME I'd guage 16mg in the 20(film)-30/35mg(tab) , so if your serious, that would be about where to taper to. If you have physical pain issues which factor into your addiction, don't expect much relief from subs(and even less from film)

I wouldn't want to go done to subs, given the time frame you outlined tho, I'd try to drastically taper off. I'd actually take 4-5 days pre sub dr and just dirty the urine up w H, pills, weed** and just blank slate it from go... Go to dr a bit sick-cuz most are sticklers on w/d bullshit, but after a bender I usually wait til I'm 4-6hrs sick before I take the subs, nalexone is nasty shit(tho short 1/2 life) ** weed in the urine is cuz if your doc is cool, he won't bitch about it. My cool doc said if med mj were legal, he'd rx me that without a question..

Anyways, good luck with whichever path you choose to go down and keep us posted.

OC Rockets
06-23-2012, 03:51 PM
There are two main reasons I am switching to subs. First off, I hate having to go to the clinic every single morning as it's about a 25 min drive there each day. I'd much rather be on subs and only have to go to the doctor's office one a month.

Secondly, and this is the main reason, is because the healthcare clinic I'm going on the 12th accepts my insurance and none of the methadone clinics will. Walmart pharmacy also accepts my insurance to actually fill the script. So, in other words, $$$. It will be way cheaper for me to go my new doc then to the methadone clinic.

--- auto merge ---

Just1, I see that you don't like being on suboxone, am I right? I don't like it either, at least not as much as methadone. I love methadone. I am getting high right now off of 80 mg. I should be on 40-60 mg and easily be able to maintain, but I went up to 80 to feel my 'Done nodd. I even thought about going up to 90 today and then 100 on Monday, but I had to use my willpower to stay at 80 mg. So for me it should be easy to taper down 60 mg then about 40 mg then maybe 30 by the time the appointment comes.

I've tried suboxone before, and I know I don't like it as much as methadone. Therefore, I am more likely to get hooked on methadone for a long time. I'm not trying to be on any maintenance program long term, so I feel it's better for me to be on sub's because psychologically it will be easier for me to quit something I don't like that much, then quitting 'dones.

This was my plan all along was to get high on methadones for a while, then switch to subs when the buzz started to go away or my dose started getting too high. Once that happened, I planned on switching to subs and maintaining for a few more months before quitting all together. So for me, it is meaningful to stick to my original recovery plan and not make any excuses to stay on methadone and end up getting hooked long term. I mean, I could actually still play around on 'dones for a lil while longer and still get buzzed and end up going up to 100 or 120, but instead I am sticking to my plan and trying to actually gain my willpower and self-control back.

pullmyhair
06-23-2012, 03:53 PM
There are two main reasons I am switching to subs. First off, I hate having to go to the clinic every single morning as it's about a 25 min drive there each day. I'd much rather be on subs and only have to go to the doctor's office one a month.

Secondly, and this is the main reason, is because the healthcare clinic I'm going on the 12th accepts my insurance and none of the methadone clinics will. Walmart pharmacy also accepts my insurance to actually fill the script. So, in other words, $$$. It will be way cheaper for me to go my new doc then to the methadone clinic.

Personally, you couldn't pay me to switch to subs. I don't know your history, but subs have always been a terrible experience for me. It's best to be stable at 30mg or less and then wait until you are in withdrawals before you switch. 18 days isn't enough time, IMO (if you want it to go smoothly anyway).

Just1Fix
06-23-2012, 07:52 PM
Nah, I don't like subs, but being on probation & my prior doning out exp = revolving door game w the legal system, and frankly I'd take 4 yrs in a cell over revolving door...

If your insurance is good run with it tho. I was insured for a bit, tho never found a dr it covered, but script was a lot more reasonable(with the new -50 a month thing you might pay $0 for the script- dr should have card or get it via website) The tabs were worth paying for but the film leaves a lot to be desired...

and 18 days to drop off 50mg is like a 3mg a day drop.. tinkering w done to subs and likely a 16mg induction (if you taper and get to 50mg and doc is cool maybe you can catch a 24/32mg week then drop off to 16/24 then stabilize at 16.. If you don't wanna be a *lifer* taper quickly. If you have chronic pain, its gonna hurt considerably more. If its cuz johnny law caught up then subs are a bullet worth eating...

Good Luck and hopefully you aren't posting July 13th about how much subs & your dr suck lol

OC Rockets
06-24-2012, 06:31 AM
Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna taper down to somewhere between 50mg - 30mg if I can get that low by then without hurting too bad. Then I will start my subs likely at 16 mg but hopefully 24 mg like you said.

And if I decide subs suck, I will just head on back to the old clinic with my tail between my legs lol.

Just1Fix
06-24-2012, 07:21 AM
If the new doc is smart(they did pay tons for an education that us addicts got for free) he'll start you on straight bupe/subutex because the m-done has long 1/2 life and the nalexone send you into w/d's for few hours(usually 1-3hrs depending; nalexone short 1/2 life) and while you'll 'normal out' you're still 1/2 shitty from the nalexone w/d..

The beauty of straight bupe is that it can be 'supplemented' with no fear of w/d... Chances are 1st visit going to get followed up 1 week later, so if you can get subutex, and the taper down didn't get low enough, thru day 1 or 2 of induction, you can top off and its outta system before dr visit #2.... I did that with sub dr #1, got bupe for 1st week, felt like shit the first couple days, so added H (only grabbed 5 bags- day 1 did 2, day 2, 1.5, day3 1, day 4 .5) but my system cleans out quick.. 16mg bupe from 12+ bags a day was rough, Granted I could've just toughed it out easily, but I've kicked ct enough times to not want to kick it agony style again.

Its all Dr pending and there's quite a few drs who are inept and have 0 knowledge of what they're rx-ing and while there are some 'in the know' the inept far outnumber the capable.

Duckfeet
06-24-2012, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna taper down to somewhere between 50mg - 30mg if I can get that low by then without hurting too bad. Then I will start my subs likely at 16 mg but hopefully 24 mg like you said.

And if I decide subs suck, I will just head on back to the old clinic with my tail between my legs lol.

Yeah, you definitely want to get down low, 30 mg daily is best...and the private clinics usually try to get you a week on oxys or some other short-acting opiate so you only have to go 24 hrs before withdrawals start...but the public mdone clinics just want you to be honest, and be in withdrawals, before switiching over, to avoid the nasty precipitated withdrawals, if you don't...and you just need to be motivated, I guess: I tried a couple times, but like many longtime heroin addicts, it didn't work for me, and had to go back to methadone...finally found a doc who'd prescribe mdone for pain--legit--but it also works good on addiction, since I'm low dose maintenance anyway...30-40mg hold me...

I've always gotten subutex, since I found outside doc, but it doesn't matter, regarding PW's: it's the buprenorphene itself which can start precipitated withdrawals, not the naloxone: all that does is fuck up IV use. A lot of people are confused about it, and myths get spread....I'd read any legitimate article: here's the wiki on it:

buprenorphene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine)

Naloxone is added to bupe, creating suboxone to discourage IV use, nothing else.

Best wishes to you...

Brony
06-24-2012, 10:40 AM
If the new doc is smart(they did pay tons for an education that us addicts got for free) he'll start you on straight bupe/subutex because the m-done has long 1/2 life and the nalexone send you into w/d's for few hours(usually 1-3hrs depending; nalexone short 1/2 life) and while you'll 'normal out' you're still 1/2 shitty from the nalexone w/d..

The beauty of straight bupe is that it can be 'supplemented' with no fear of w/d... Chances are 1st visit going to get followed up 1 week later, so if you can get subutex, and the taper down didn't get low enough, thru day 1 or 2 of induction, you can top off and its outta system before dr visit #2.... I did that with sub dr #1, got bupe for 1st week, felt like shit the first couple days, so added H (only grabbed 5 bags- day 1 did 2, day 2, 1.5, day3 1, day 4 .5) but my system cleans out quick.. 16mg bupe from 12+ bags a day was rough, Granted I could've just toughed it out easily, but I've kicked ct enough times to not want to kick it agony style again.

Its all Dr pending and there's quite a few drs who are inept and have 0 knowledge of what they're rx-ing and while there are some 'in the know' the inept far outnumber the capable.

I just wanted to correct some incorrect data here.

It isn't the naloxone in Suboxone that causes withdrawals. Bupeprenorphine has a higher receptor affinity than just about any opiate out there (I was doing some reading, and it was suggested that Sufentanil be used to treat acute, severe pain in persons on bupeprenorphine maintenance, as it was able to break through the bupe blockade). When people experience withdrawal from Suboxone, it is because the bupe is knocking their opiate of choice off of the receptors.

This is commonly called Precipitated Withdrawal. That is why folks are strongly encouraged to wait until they are sick as they can tolerate before dosing Subutex/Suboxone.

Duckfeet
06-24-2012, 10:52 AM
I just wanted to correct some incorrect data here.

It isn't the naloxone in Suboxone that causes withdrawals. Bupeprenorphine has a higher receptor affinity than just about any opiate out there (I was doing some reading, and it was suggested that Sufentanil be used to treat acute, severe pain in persons on bupeprenorphine maintenance, as it was able to break through the bupe blockade). When people experience withdrawal from Suboxone, it is because the bupe is knocking their opiate of choice off of the receptors.

This is commonly called Precipitated Withdrawal. That is why folks are strongly encouraged to wait until they are sick as they can tolerate before dosing Subutex/Suboxone.

Exactly: very common myth. The naloxone has such a similar name as naltrexone, that, well, here:

"Naloxone is used as a secondary chemical in the drug Suboxone. Suboxone and Subutex were created to help opiate-addicted patients detox. Suboxone contains four parts buprenorphine and one part naloxone, while Subutex contains only buprenorphrine. Naloxone was added to Suboxone in an effort to dissuade patients from injecting the tablets, due to naloxones ability to block opioid receptors and send the user into immediate withdrawal. Users with a high tolerance however may still be able to abuse Suboxone via injection given that buprenorphine has a higher affinity for opioid receptors than naloxone. Oral or sublingual administration affects only the gastrointestinal tract, and has the added benefit of helping to reverse constipation and lowered bowel motility caused by chronic medical use, or abuse, of a variety of opioids. Because of possible side effects of naloxone in some patients, chemical detox can begin with Suboxone's sister drug, Subutex, which does not contain naloxone. It is common for Suboxone film to be used in all cases unless pregnancy is a concern.... It is not to be confused with naltrexone, an opioid receptor antagonist with qualitatively different effects, used for dependence treatment rather than emergency overdose treatment."

The above is all from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone

normus420
06-24-2012, 11:00 AM
you just got on the MMT why switch to subs so quick? give the done a chance.

OC Rockets
06-24-2012, 12:42 PM
I gave the done a chance. the done works great. The reason i'm switching to subs is to save $$$ because my insurance covers subs but not dones.

normus420
06-24-2012, 01:15 PM
Ok I just hope it works alright for you and doesnt lead to a relapse. Ive been on subs for a couple years and it does nothing for my cravings. Just keeps me well and thats about it. If I could get on MMT were im at i def would. Seems like a much better option for me. But everyone is diff.

Just1Fix
06-24-2012, 06:56 PM
I dunno, I've bit thru the 'blockade' with quite a few opiates, mostly fentanyl based products(actiq-oral not gonna IV tons of sugar to boot few k mcgs of fent) sufentanyl(IV)<-this shits fucking amazing & I dont recommend fuckin with it unless you are a true professional..unfortunately I think I ran the well dry cuz ain't got any in a few months now, H(IV), and morphine(oral/IV)dillies(oral/IV)... I get w/d if I used subs just prior using other opi's(avg 1-3 hrs after ingestion- yea its my fault, if I got shit to shoot, I'm gonna shoot the shit) I can take subs while in the 'legs' phase of other opiates- ain't high, but not gonna be sick very soon. There's no issues(except sometimes a jones for other opi's^ hes right about not fully killing cravings) no pwd/wd symptoms. Even when I 1st got on subs, I could shoot H til high and nada pwd symptom to be found...



So based on that- either A, suboxone in tabs & film have a 4hr 1/2 life on my receptors, or B, I got issues w the nalexone(which does have a short 1/2 life).Since the pwd magic hours fall in the using subs within 3hrs-ish prior to using other opiates, and anytime outside those 'magic hours' I can dose over subs, dose subs over other opi's. I'd say the nalexone is what screws me up. And no, not low dose subs- 16mg a day for lil over 2 years, 12mg a day now(nearing end of year 2, I self tapered down to 8mg then it went sucky film...

Since I'm not a chemist or brain specialist, if anyone cares to guess, you're more than welcome to.. Been on opi's mostly H for better part of 18 years.. Past 8-9yrs have ingested on avg 12-18000 mcg fent a month on avg. And my fent tolerance is rather high, I can eat 6 x 1200mcg(7200mcg) lolli's w ease(in minutes actually) and I'll catch a buzz, maybe a quickie nod(tho usually only if I'm tired prior) and no, I'm not exaggerating... H I actually get 'noddy' high on 4-5 bags now(the other great thing about subs- besides the great thing of keepin me cool thru my probation stint) Lowered H tolly is nice now cuz the H is cost effective instead of 12-25 bag a daying it...Like i said, any guess is welcome

Woody Bear
06-24-2012, 11:19 PM
I get w/d if I used subs just prior using other opi's(avg 1-3 hrs after ingestion- yea its my fault, if I got shit to shoot, I'm gonna shoot the shit) I can take subs while in the 'legs' phase of other opiates- ain't high, but not gonna be sick very soon. There's no issues(except sometimes a jones for other opi's^ hes right about not fully killing cravings) no pwd/wd symptoms. Even when I 1st got on subs, I could shoot H til high and nada pwd symptom to be found...

So based on that- either A, suboxone in tabs & film have a 4hr 1/2 life on my receptors, or B, I got issues w the nalexone(which does have a short 1/2 life).
I'm don't quite understand that. I take it that you can use heroin, and when the heroin wears off you can take bupe without getting sick. But did you really mean if you take suboxone and then 1-3 hours later if you take heroin, instead of getting high, you go into precipitated withdrawals? That sounds an awful lot like cotton fever instead of pwd to me.

Precipitated withdrawals is when you're using to taking full agonist opioids like heroin, and then when you take buprenorphine, as the bupe knock the heroin out of your opioid receptors, your brain finds that the bupe doesn't stimulate the receptors as much as it got used to the heroin doing, and so you immediately have withdrawal symptoms.

If people are stable on bupe and have been taking it for a while, then when they take heroin, either they don't feel much because the heroin is unable to displace the bupe from their opioid receptors, or else they are on a low enough dose of bupe that the heroin can plug in to some unoccupied opioid receptors and gets them high.

However, if they keep taking heroin for couple days, then their tolerance goes up, and then when they start back on the bupe, they find that it's not strong enough to stimulate their opioid receptors as much as it got used to the heroin doing again, and so they start feeling shitty until a few days later when their brain has adjusted back down to the lower amount of opioid receptor stimulation that bupe provides.

Also the half-life of buprenorphine is 20–70 hours, mean 37 hours. So if you took 12 mg Suboxone or Subutex, and then 4 hours later you no longer feel high, that doesn't mean that it has a 4 hour half-life. It just means that you no longer feel high. When they tested buprenorphine's half-life, it took the quickest person 20 hours for them to eliminate 50% of their dose from their blood, and it took the longest person 70 hours to eliminate 50% of their dose. The average was 37 hours. So if you were an rapid metaboliser, 4 hours after taking 12 mg buprenorphine, even if you not longer felt high, it would still take at least another 16 hours until your blood level dropped from 12 mg down to 6 mg.

dizzle
06-25-2012, 12:10 PM
Just1fix-

It sounds like you need to do some reading on bupe, and antagonists (specifically naloxone) because honestly you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

I'm sorry to sound like an ass, but most of what you wrote is misinformed and incorrect.


Also, if you don't think you get PWD's:

stay off bupe for a few weeks
then get a massive heroin habit, like 20 bags a day going for a week or two
Then, 2-3 hours after last shooting the dope, crush up an 8mg sub and IV it.

then talk to me.

SERIOUSLY DON"T DO what I said above unless you really want to feel what PWD's feel like......

Just1Fix
06-25-2012, 04:44 PM
not cotton fever- very familiar w that pre sub use. There is no bupe 'high' and I'd prefer to think anyone that can *achieve* a high on subs is very opiate naive and probably shouldn't be on subs. I dose 4mg-4mg-4mg(avg gotta cut 8mg in 1/2- its not an exact science) every 8hrs +/- (dont own a watch or watch the time much so times it 7hr others 9hr)

If I use anything opiate within say 1,2,3hr of dosing bupe- I get some wd symptoms, after 4hrs its fine.. It don't matter if its 4mg/8mg/12mg/16mg swimming in my system based on 1/2 life- which after timing it, half life is 18hrs for me. Its how the dumb shit works/doesn’t work for me.. If I had a video camera I’d tape it all with time & date stamps. I just took 4mg sub @ 3pm today- I got 12000mcg (10x1200)fent pops which if I took now(5:22pm) I’d likely get chills/sweats, bug in the throat, and uncomfortable as hell. Its relatively minor and I can cope easily w dope sick and be functional thru the 1st 30ish hours its usually 36hrs in that I get really bad, and somewhere about 80hrs the worst is over and I’m mostly ‘fiend out’ which last me months- after 6 months, still got cravings/no sleep/ and anxiety.

If I could have a 20 bag a day habit, you can bet your sorry ass I would, between sub dr and PO, I don’t get a lot of junking time. I can and have re-dosed onto sub with other opi’s in system, more times than I care to count, and I’m fine. IV-ing subs is the most useless pointless thing to shoot. If you’ve had any considerable habit for any bit of time, and you think you’ll catch a ’high’ on bupe, you’ve also likely got a helluva rap sheet and have likely been in rehabs and stayed the full 28 days multiple times. IV-ing bupe? I guess I should fuck up my veins IV-ing actiq too.

If you choose to think I’m fucked- think I’m fucked- I could care less, I’m telling you how the shit works for me. Maybe after 24yrs of drugs and 18 years on opiates I got nary a fucking clue of what happens when I use- because the people of Suboxone can’t be wrong.. Drugs have no chance of affecting other adversely…And of course I’m just an idiot asshole whose had 3 drug related arrests in 24yrs and spent a total of 4 days in rehab so with all that time off the streets I likely don’t know shit….

blackman
06-25-2012, 05:40 PM
No one is saying you're an idiot asshole, but some of the info you're putting out there is wrong. Not stupid, just misinformed. Chill.

buffer
07-02-2012, 11:59 PM
I switched from 80mg metahdone for 1 year+ to 12mg bupe with zero probs. Took me about 10 days to feel 100% but it was so great being off the clinic.

I switched from methadone to dope for 4 days and from dope to bupe. Friends have switched from higher.. I waited 30 hours after my last dope shot to take the bupe.. I probably didn't even need 12mg but those 1st few days after being on a full agonist for literally years are guaranteed to be shitty. No way aroudn that. Your first bupe dose might not give you releif but it will stop your wtihdrawals from getting worse.

Me eprsonally, it gives me releif in some ways and makes it worse in others.. YaWNING and sniffles always go away as well as the tearing, but my body temp gets more fucked up. By day 4 it is a whole different world then your in day 1, and by day 8 you are nearly 100%. Youve only been ona few months so it might be a sinch.

All of the people who say to taper to 30mg are simply reading off wiki or the FDA and have no personal experience iwth this.

Matt
07-03-2012, 04:06 PM
The only thing Naloxone in Suboxone is effective for is (for those who already know how Suboxone works) deterring IV use during induction or after you've used a full-agonist. During induction you will get PWD either way if you take it at the wrong time, but the Naloxone will make it that much worse so you have to become stablized first after making the transition from full-agonist to Sub and then you can fire away without worrying about the Naloxone.

The only other times you'll get a Naloxone sting is if you have full-agonists still in your system and you IV Suboxone. During my last two Sub inductions I'll do a shot of black on the second day to help me sleep and kill the goosebumps that stick around during the first couple of days, but since I already stocked my receptors with bupe I can keep going on Subs without having to get sick again although I always wait at least 12 hours from the dope shot and I snort it to be safe.

You can IV the Suboxone 12 or more hours after doing a little dope while you're on Subs but you'll feel the Naloxone reversing the last bits of full-agonist that haven't been eliminated. In other words, PWD for a minute or two but to a far lesser degree. Your heart rate and body temp go up but it subsides. This can be scary when you don't know whats going on, but when you know that it's just the Nalox kicking off the unmetabolized dope it's kind of exciting, though in a very strange way. I guess I'd call this a "Naloxone rush." Big oxymoron, I know.

buffer
07-03-2012, 10:33 PM
The only thing Naloxone in Suboxone is effective for is (for those who already know how Suboxone works) deterring IV use during induction or after you've used a full-agonist. During induction you will get PWD either way if you take it at the wrong time, but the Naloxone will make it that much worse so you have to become stablized first after making the transition from full-agonist to Sub and then you can fire away without worrying about the Naloxone.

The only other times you'll get a Naloxone sting is if you have full-agonists still in your system and you IV Suboxone. During my last two Sub inductions I'll do a shot of black on the second day to help me sleep and kill the goosebumps that stick around during the first couple of days, but since I already stocked my receptors with bupe I can keep going on Subs without having to get sick again although I always wait at least 12 hours from the dope shot and I snort it to be safe.

You can IV the Suboxone 12 or more hours after doing a little dope while you're on Subs but you'll feel the Naloxone reversing the last bits of full-agonist that haven't been eliminated. In other words, PWD for a minute or two but to a far lesser degree. Your heart rate and body temp go up but it subsides. This can be scary when you don't know whats going on, but when you know that it's just the Nalox kicking off the unmetabolized dope it's kind of exciting, though in a very strange way. I guess I'd call this a "Naloxone rush." Big oxymoron, I know.

Is the nalaxone really responsible for any of that? I never noticed any difference between suboxone and subutex. Both had the same exact effects as far as pwd's, iv use, etc,.,. I've IV'ed my 1st dose of suboxone a few times just like subutex and unless I was doing it too early I never had a prob. Id usually take 2-3 day breaks from bupe like every 2-3 weeks and I could make it 36 hours after my last shot before id iv (or sublingual for tha tmatter)

OC Rockets
08-16-2012, 05:27 AM
UPDATE: So my suboxone experiment pretty much failed miserably, mainly due to the way the new Doctor's program was set up. First they screwed up my appointment somehow and on the Monday I came in, I had been withdrawing from methadone for 3 days and some reason they told me I had to come back on Tuesday and still be in withdrawals because there was some sort of mix up. So after 4 days of withdrawals, I finally get my script and then the pharmacy says my insurance doesn't take suboxone, and when I call my insurance- they assured me that they do take suboxone and that they just need my doctor to call them and verify. So I couldn't wait another day, since my doctor was closed now at 2pm, so I just paid the pharmacy $16 for 16mg of suboxone. After being on 110mg of methadone before, 16mg of suboxone was only enough to make me stop feeling sick about 80%. Which was heavensent at the time because I was w/d'ing for 4 and a half days at the time when i finally got some suboxone.

The good news is I'm now back on methadone and I've managed to lower my dose from 110 to a more reasonable 80mg and I stayed clean the whole time I was withdrawing from methadone for 4 and a half days, when I could have easily called my old dealer who was on deck. In fact I talked to my dealer who is supportive of my rehab and told him how they were fucking me and I wasn't tempted to cop at all. So now I am just going to focus on kicking my done soon.

BlueCollarFeind
09-10-2012, 08:06 PM
I was on MMT for about 2 years at an 115mgs daily. I switched over to subs due to the fact that going to the clinic at 5am really sucked after so long. My clinics rules were 12 months of clean u/as for 3 take homes. Anyways...the doc/clinic I found switched me with no detox period. I was given 2 100mcg/h fent patches and put one on the first day I didn't visit the clinic. On the 7th day (each patch lasts 3 days) I started the sub and was a bit uncomfortable that night but it has been smooth sailing since then. (About 6 months now) Started at 4mg of sub every 3 hours, then every 4 hours and now down to 2mg every 24 hours.

The way my doc explained it to me is that PWD is caused by the sub kicking off opiates from the receptors. Fentanyl, he explained, is the one opiate that sub is not able to "kick off" so as the fent naturally falls off the receptor the sub comes in and takes its place.

I go back on the 20th and will then switch to 1mg a day and on the final visit the following month they say they will take me off sub all together and put me on a low dose naloxone. They say that naloxone, nalextrone, whatevere it is, at a low dosage will actually kickstart the brain to begin producing it's natural chemicals on it's own.

Hope this helps at least someone :)

Cobb
10-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Wish I would have been around for this subject....

I was on MMT for a year @ 70mg. Went to court one morning and the judge found out for a DUI and he said "... you're a kid... you're coming off of methadone or you're going to jail for three months". Court appointed homie was an ex-opiate addict and got me on Subutex. That was the last day on it for me that morning... it was scary. I did go into parcipitated withdrawal after reading about it here. Just kept taking the Subtex knowing it's kick in 4 days later I sat up out of bed, day five I was okay, a week in I was 100 percent.

Is there a God?

Yes and he got me off of methadone, I thank him I caught the DUI and that I got off of that stuff. Fuck going daily, taking that shit, being tired like a drone 24/7. I used to be pro-methadone so bad it's crazy, but that's because I was ON methadone... you come off of it and bam... you aren't tired, you get healthy and you feel bad you were on it. I'm not glorifying subs but I think it's way better... at least in my opinion...

You are never going to find yourself scrambling for cash, rushing to the subutex doctor and have him slam the door in your face and tell you to go home because you are 2 minutes late and be sick after you've been seeing him for a year and he knows you well....

Just a thought..

Dolofinell
10-27-2012, 07:45 AM
Kicking 130mg in jail more than once with nothing more than a blanket and a cement bench for months on end I agree it's scary shit. Or your Dr. dying on you with no backup plan in place. The thing is it is not the fault of the medication that you did something stupid enough to get locked up while on it. If your in a program and cleaning up while going through court I definitely think you should be able to finish a proper taper off whatever maintenance med your on or get dosed in jail. But thats a whole other topiic
Methadone saved my ass more times than I can count, believe me,it sucks, dosing daily to start, staff are usually not very friendly, but I do know it can save your life depending on how you go about it.
In the end as we all know with opiates There aint no Free Lunch, and ya gotta be ready for it cause it hurts.