Addicted to Lope, whoops. [Archive]

hansardo

03-12-2012, 11:27 PM

Long story short,

Started a new job after finding a nice house to rent with good roommates. They know of my use, know the reasons, and don't judge. Things are a near one eighty from last year. I no longer want to die every five minutes, and can think of things other than pain.

If you had asked six months ago, I would have said that by now I would not be here. Or that I would be homeless and hopeless.

The new job came outta the blue, and sales is literally the last thing I thought id be great at. Turns out, the job gave me a ton of the confidence back that my illness and addiction took away. I can not express how different my life actually is living in a nice but affordable place making decent money and enjoying work. It is truly humbling to realize how far down I got, thinking I was spiraling into things just being... over.

Anyway. Working everyday, I got in the habit of grabbing a bottle of lope every time I felt sick, then not worrying about wd for two days. Then, I couldn't get off on my oxy or h without the baseline of lope in me. Then the wd started coming faster and faster. Now im experiencing some really shitty symptoms directly from the lope; rashes, extreme itching, kidney issues such as pain and dark tea colored urine, lower back pain. Over a three month span this is.

Sad thing is this: the fuckin lope is partly... hell, maybe greatly to thank for my newfound stability. Scared to change my habit in any way since everything is great except for this.

Im afraid of the kidney shit. So is my girl. She wants me at the er like yesterday. Not happening.

Im tapering the lope, but symptoms persist. I know others here have had some possibly superserious shit happen from using a lot of lope regularly. Im just having a hell of a time getting off of it. The withdrawl is the worst I've experienced... from anything... truly vicious shit. And this is not my first rodeo at all.

So.. im tapering and crossing my fingers and trying to keep my head up at work.

Im on the mdone clinic waiting list.. seriously wish it would hurry the fuck up because this is crazy. I was using lope to avoid getting sick, avoid waking up sick, etc, and it was a pleasant delusion... now its over and time to pay. Fuck.

Let this be a warning to others... using lope as a maintenance tool should not be overdone.

JuStOnEmOrE?

03-12-2012, 11:44 PM

shit buddy... I'm sorry about all that. Thats just insane. The longest I've been on lop at any given time is a month. And during that I was doing a very loooooong, sllllloooooowwwwww taper.

Get off the lope, and quick. Is there any way you could pick up subs or 'done to give your body a break from the lope at all??

hansardo

03-13-2012, 12:03 AM

Looking to pick up some mdone... not working thus far. Lope is really quite vicious shit, and since you're not getting high per se, its really easy to lose respect for it quickly.

The part that's really scary, aside from this bizarre kidney shit, is that my newfound happiness has a lot to do with having that cheap and easy maintenance drug around all the time. That's what has me up at night over this. Im hoping to just switch onto mdone, but the clinic is not available soon enough as I had hoped and for some reason, I can't find any.

The good thing is it seems I can taper by 20mg at a time so long as I give it three or four days at that level before dropping again. Its just not fast enough because some symptoms are scary, ie, kidneys.

JuStOnEmOrE?

03-13-2012, 12:12 AM

20mg drops at a time???

How much were you taking daily, dude???

The most I ever had to take (and this was my tapering down after a 6 month Opana binge) was 180mg for 3/4 days, and then I could get by on 100mgs, then on 50mg, and then 25/30mgs every couple days.

Now the stupid questions.... are you making sure to drink extra fluids when on the Lope? I know it makes me SUPER fuckin dehydrated, and on week 2 of my month long taper my urine got really dark, and I was having abdominal pains until I started drinking large amounts of water. As junkies it would appear that we tend to forget that our bodies need more water than what we put into them.

hansardo

03-13-2012, 12:21 AM

220mg/day was the most. 144mg/day was average. Too much. Dropping by 20mg/every 4 days. Seems bareable with a daily or nightly shot of a half to a whole bag of good ecp.

Of course, I managed to piece a life back together... that's worth it so long as I come outta this ok.

I feel stupid for this but fuck, having stability, or the delusion thereof, was nice. :/

Yeah, lots of fluids all the time. I noticed the dehydration right away. Reminded me of pods, but worse.

I mainly wanted to post this so others don't think its totally cool/okay to try and use lope as a maintanence drug a la mdone or sub. Its just unproven ground and folks, like me, seem to be finding out the hard way lope may be toxic or harmful is use is prolonged. Thanks for giving a shit, JOM.

Edit: based on what you're saying, I may try dropping more mgs at a time than I have been. I could probably manage it, but the wd I have felt thus far was BAD. Gonna drop by 40mg next time and see where I stand.

duck

03-13-2012, 06:29 AM

Dammn dude that sounds awful. The brown piss seems very worrying to me, kidney failure is no joke.

Are the symptoms decreasing as you taper? I think you will love methadone if its stability you seek.

Fat Pie

03-13-2012, 06:36 AM

Loperamide may hide the symptoms of dehydration. Dark urine is an indicator of that.

alowishus

03-13-2012, 06:55 AM

Stick yo head unda da sink amd DRINK!!
If your two little "beans" act up and stop - you are dead.
With all the other shit we put our bodies through, you really need to pay nice with your kidneys, I didn't and I did almost die.
Drinking loads of water should be done ANYWAY while taking ANY amount of lope.
That shit is B.A.D. - bad, but it helps. The WD's are hell, huh?

hansardo

03-13-2012, 08:03 AM

The WD is indeed utter hell, alow. Didn't expect it. Way worse than any oxy kick I've ever been through, worse than pods, worse than dope. Makes IV morphine WD look like picking flowers.

The rashes and intense itching are decreasing with tolerance and when I taper, I noticed.

My kidneys, I don't know. Im decreasing dose as fast as possible, and chugging water like a highschool kid passing a drug test.

Thanks guys.

Fat Pie

03-13-2012, 08:05 AM

Don't overdo it with the water either, just make sure you stay well hydrated.

ItsLupus

03-13-2012, 09:05 AM

Try to find some water that has had electrolytes and minerals added-if you are allready dehydrated pure water can actually make it worse-which is why when dehydration starts drs often recommend pedialyte.

Kroger (which is a grocery store here dont know about you locally)has a brand of water called metroelectro-it has potassium,magnesium,calcium,zinc and sodium all which can go off kilter when you dehydrate.Check for something like that.

Hope the faster taper is doable and you stop having issues and I hope the MMT opens up for you soon.

Fat Pie

03-13-2012, 10:32 AM

Try to find some water that has had electrolytes and minerals added-if you are allready dehydrated pure water can actually make it worse-which is why when dehydration starts drs often recommend pedialyte.

Yeah, that's just what I was thinking. Minerals, salts and electrolytes are also important to keep one stable and hydrated.

Thanat0s

03-13-2012, 11:04 AM

DUDE! FATPIE!!!
CHILL WITH THE 'ME TOO' POSTS!
do i really gottga keep putting you on ignore?!

ok, now Hansardo:
does high does Lope not give you a general 'toxic' feeling?
even after one dose i got the overwhelming feeling that something wasnt right with it,
never used it more than a couple days max and always at a rapidly decreasing dose.

please do update this thread,
i know everyone was so 'pro lope' for a bit
but a few of us had good reason to think the stuff was far more dangerous than expected,
especially at the high high doses discussed on this site.

for the sake of HR PLEASE let us know how this all turns out,
lot of things stacking up against using lope for w/d from a 'major' habit.

i never used more than 50mg max and THAT felt like far too much.
get your ass to a doc if it gets too bad or goes on too long, eh?

Fat Pie

03-13-2012, 11:14 AM

DUDE! FATPIE!!!
CHILL WITH THE 'ME TOO' POSTS!
do i really gottga keep putting you on ignore?!

Just leave me alone.

alowishus

03-13-2012, 12:04 PM

....does high does lope not give you a general 'toxic' feeling?....

fucking spot on!!

paups

03-13-2012, 12:14 PM

Hansardo have you tried kratom? I would think coming from lope it would be pretty effective..
Please take care of yourself and do what you can to taper off asap--I agree with others who have mentioned the toxic feeling after only a few days.. I can't imagine maintaining long term.

That being said you are doing so fucking well! Even though this is a little setback you know now you CAN do it and how quickly things change change for the better. Keep us updated!

Dr. McKay

03-13-2012, 02:32 PM

paups

03-13-2012, 02:43 PM

I sure wish that some company would come put with some kind of legal pill that takes away all w/d symptoms...

I am sure it will never happen, but I can only wish.

????

JuStOnEmOrE?

03-13-2012, 02:53 PM

does high does Lope not give you a general 'toxic' feeling?
even after one dose i got the overwhelming feeling that something wasnt right with it,
never used it more than a couple days max and always at a rapidly decreasing dose.

I've never gotten that 'toxic' feeling. I've gotten a dehydration hangover of sorts, but never this 'toxic' feeling everbody is mentioning now.

Or maybe I'm just not noticing it. Could someone explain what it feels like for me?

Ive tried lope only once to get me by for a few days. To me it did not a friggin thing, but my dose was probally not high enough.

I was only taking around 10-15 pills a day.

I sure wish that some company would come put with some kind of legal pill that takes away all w/d symptoms...

I am sure it will never happen, but I can only wish.

If you have any size habit at all 30mgs your first day when sick wont do a lot for ya, buddy. You need more. Thats why you didnt feel the differance.

And what are you talking about with a 'legal' pill for WDs??

Lope does just that.... so ae you talking about something different??

borohydride

03-13-2012, 02:56 PM

I seem to remember that someone here nearly died due to a large dose of loperamide and while in hospital, his kidney function was WAY off. Loperamide doesn't pass the BBB al that well and it's pumped right back out by the ABC transport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_binding_cassette

The ABC transporters are made in the kidneys:

http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v62/n5/full/4493255a.html

The key + point of loperamide is availability (and in the US cost as well) but it's got some issues. As well as the above point, it may also act like MPTP which causes Parkinson's:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319335

As things stand, the only way to end a habit is to suffer. If you sit through the day sweating, eyes-watering and shivering and then take just enough opioid to sleep, it seems like the best 'fast cure'. Without sleep your screwed both mentally AND physically. If you work, weekends are the only time.

I have tried to make people aware of the specific risks of loperamide many times; but people a)don't like bad news and b)shoot the messenger.

Better a subs script (if you can afford it) or a methadone script (ditto) but relying on a drug where they KNOW it's not safe and rely on dose-level and frequency of use to justify it's low risk doesn't apply to cases like this.

I hope you sort it out - look after yourself.

Or, of course, you could perform my 'loperamide to decent opioid' synthesis.... or find someone to do it for you ;-)

smokey

03-13-2012, 03:46 PM

As things stand, the only way to end a habit is to suffer.

Yes sir.

Count Zero

03-13-2012, 04:31 PM

Ive tried lope only once to get me by for a few days. To me it did not a friggin thing, but my dose was probally not high enough.

I was only taking around 10-15 pills a day.

I sure wish that some company would come put with some kind of legal pill that takes away all w/d symptoms...

I am sure it will never happen, but I can only wish.

What an idea. It would be the ultimate OTC med-as long as it didn't get you high-up there with aspirin.

--- auto merge ---

Hansardo have you tried kratom? I would think coming from lope it would be pretty effective..
Please take care of yourself and do what you can to taper off asap--I agree with others who have mentioned the toxic feeling after only a few days.. I can't imagine maintaining long term.

That being said you are doing so fucking well! Even though this is a little setback you know now you CAN do it and how quickly things change change for the better. Keep us updated!

This whole thread is emblematic of the Great Opi Kratom Kraze of 2012, all sorts of folks are jumping on the bandwagon, including some of the hardcore but, in the interests of research and HR:
Can kratom really give junkies a buzz?
Can it make a difference with a serious habit?
Can kratom give anyone a buzz?
Are we bringing the wrath of our alphabet buddies down on us by writing about it? Making it the next demonized drug?
Although I've never done it I think this is great, it's rare to see such enthusiasm over a legal drug with respectable vendors. Shit I might even have to try some myself. The pod scene is so pathetic it's looking like a good option.

JuStOnEmOrE?

03-13-2012, 04:46 PM

I seem to remember that someone here nearly died due to a large dose of loperamide and while in hospital, his kidney function was WAY off.

It was Harms... and here is his thread about his Lope OD

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?36438-I-OD-d-on-loperamide-more

This whole thread is emblematic of the Great Opi Kratom Kraze of 2012, all sorts of folks are jumping on the bandwagon, including some of the hardcore but, in the interests of research and HR:
Can kratom really give junkies a buzz?
Can it make a difference with a serious habit?
Can kratom give anyone a buzz?

For me.... Kratom has always been about worthless, and I dont even bother with it anymore. Be it ordered from a reputable vendor, or from a local head shop... I cant even get well off it no matter how much, or how I take it.

nick

03-13-2012, 05:58 PM

Find something else to use pronto,man.

Nagelfar

03-13-2012, 06:22 PM

Just leave me alone.

Me too.

SeVeN

03-13-2012, 06:56 PM

Me too.

WTF^^

I dont know why everything is making me laugh tonight.

Oh and Hans, change something, FAST!

Also i always got the impression that you are super fucking duper bi-polar. Maybe trying to get that treated could help lots of other things?

odd

03-13-2012, 07:55 PM

jimmyfingers

03-13-2012, 08:21 PM

I have been telling people not to take lope for a long time. Everytime someone starts a thread about being sick, 20 people jump in and say 'take high doses of lope'

I tried the lope thing a long time ago (20 pills) and it gave me the worst stomach pain ever. I have a strong stomach, but this stuff made me feel toxic.

ItsLupus

03-13-2012, 08:24 PM

Stay away from any thirst quencher w/caffeine as it is also a diuretic and would cause further issue.

I had never heard of brawndo-but uh that shit sounds kind of scary.I would stay on the weenie wagon with enhanced water or pedialyte/pedialyte popsicles :)

hansardo

03-13-2012, 08:31 PM

Than, yes! At high doses, I always have noticed a general toxic type feeling. The benefits seemed to outweigh that, thiugh, as I was/am doing so well with work and leading a normal(ish) life. But that nastytoxic feeling is way, way worse now.

Paups, got a free 15g sample on the way! am really quite excited based on what you and than have been reporting about it. Who knows, if it gives me any stability in any way similar to lope, maybe I can just use kratom as a baseline, so to speak, and avoid the lope. I know I plan on using it to get off the lope.

Im still using about .1 of ecp a day 30-60mg oxy, and do not plan on stopping that. Just can't afford to do dope ALL the time to stay well, so hopefully the kratom will still work...

What is certain is that I have to stop the lope, but can't handle being sick when I wake up or being sick half the day anymore... not because im a bitch but because im actually living now. Admittedly, I have high hopes for kratom... and if the first sample does anything for me I will be immediately ordering both sample packs from the lope vendor providing the sample. What strains or varieties have you had the most success with?

The reason I posted this is to warn folks..... don't worry I will keep it updated.

I drink so much water and have begun taking electrolyte tabs... good suggestion on the electrolytes...

Thanks guys.

Nagelfar

03-13-2012, 08:34 PM

I had never heard of brawndo

It's fictional. (cf. 'Idiocracy')

ItsLupus

03-13-2012, 08:56 PM

^^No looks like they did sell it for a while dont know if they still do it was even on Amazon but shows discontinued.-thats how I read what was in it.Sounded kind of like a redbull to me.

http://energy-drink-ratings.blogspot.com/2007/12/brawndo-energy-drink-review.html

http://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/Redux-Beverages-Announces-New-Sports-Energy-Drink-Brawndo.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_beverages

hansardo

03-17-2012, 03:29 PM

Update:

Decided to say fuck the taper, quit the lope cold turkey. Got through 3 days with nothing but regular opiates. Opana/heroin... still had bad stomach issues. Horrifying cramps and butt water, fatigue, and general wd symptoms. Even on the dope. Got through it, though.

Was amazed at how severe it was considering I would be lit from the dope/phrams and still doubled over in the bathroom. And i had to do extra because i could barely feel my shots w/o the lope.

Never again. Will only use lope for emergencies.

Received some kratom... I know it will be a better option than lope. Found out the hard way.

Just a special THANK YOU to than and paups for suggesting kratom not only in this thread, but just endorsing its usefullness/worthwhileness in general here on the phorum. I trust your guys' opinions quite a lot. Probably wouldn't have even bothered had you not spoke so highly of it. Thanks to others for the support/kind words.

FYI, kratom has quite a pleasing aroma. Very pleasing indeed.

paups

03-17-2012, 03:52 PM

This whole thread is emblematic of the Great Opi Kratom Kraze of 2012, all sorts of folks are jumping on the bandwagon, including some of the hardcore but, in the interests of research and HR:
Can kratom really give junkies a buzz?
Can it make a difference with a serious habit?
Can kratom give anyone a buzz?
Are we bringing the wrath of our alphabet buddies down on us by writing about it? Making it the next demonized drug?
Although I've never done it I think this is great, it's rare to see such enthusiasm over a legal drug with respectable vendors. Shit I might even have to try some myself. The pod scene is so pathetic it's looking like a good option.

With a real full aggy habit and in acute w/d--NO it will not give you a buzz and you will probably be disappointed.
But at the tail end of a taper when you are very close to clean or ESPECIALLY dealing with PAWS it has been a godsend imho.
Would I have felt this way a year ago coming off dope? Hell no.
After a year of low dose bupe tapered and jumped @ .5mg? FUCK YES.

I think its cool that lots of people are giving it a shot but I would not be surprised it the majority do feel somewhat disappointed..
Kindof like if someone with a H habit tries PST. Never even got me close to well.. although I haven't tried it without a habit..

To me, kratom is more like a cup of anti-depressant coffee in the morning. It takes the bitter edge off the misery that is PAWS.. distracts you a bit from cravings if you are willing, gives enough energy to, you know.. take a shower and prepare food (you know that level of dysphoria..) and hopefully allows you to sleep through the night without waking in a soaking wet puddle of sweat..

If you feel *more* than that consider it a bonus.. I think it could be recreational to an opiate naive person for sure.. but in most of our cases its value lies in making it through what is debatably the hardest part of w/d.. the lingering post-acute that drags on and on and wears you down until you relapse. And TRULY that makes it invaluable to me.. esp. considering our other options are extremely potent synthetic maint. meds--or toxic doses of poop-meds. (or returning to a full time habit..)

In terms of DEA etc. sure, there's always unwanted attention--but there are dozens of things we talk about here from RCs to high dose lope etc. that are ALL on their radar.. and in terms of urgency/risk kratom is a natural herb that has less risks and little to no intoxicating effects unlike the damage that can be done by high dose poop-med and unstudied RCs..

Hansardo: Glad you are feeling better and you feel you have options now! Keep up the great work--you're doing great--just work on taking care of yourself now, eating well, staying hydrated and let your digestive system recover!

Flowergirl

03-17-2012, 06:02 PM

Sydewayz

03-17-2012, 06:11 PM

I used Lope to kick my opiate habit and a friend of mine was doing the same thing.. He told me when he was out of Lope and did some OP 80s they were not as strong, I am guessing because of the Lope but after 4 days of being off Lope he could fill his DOC no problem.. I know for a fact when he was taking the Lope and tried to do other drugs he could not feel them as strong, I even took a couple of Lortabs and could not feel them at all when I was on Lope so he was telling the truth!!

paups

03-17-2012, 07:44 PM

Chops has a thread or 2 here talking about his Kratom, uh, burning (wtf?) and how rough it became. His words are probably worth revisiting - I can see a couple months from now the "zommfg, kratom, what have you done?" posts!

Yes, with anything meant as a taper/recovery tool moderation is pretty much key..

I forget sometimes that many people have the ingrained impetus to keep taking more and more with all substances.. for some reason with everything other than dope I just sortof take the recommended dose and appreciate what it has to offer rather than pushing it..
In the instance of Kratom I'm talking about 10mg doses.like a tablespoon.. One or two a day max and only when you NEED it.
Sure you can eat a whole shitload more..but that pretty much defeats the purpose and you might as well go score your DOC if you are freaking out that much!

hansardo

03-17-2012, 10:28 PM

Good point... no plans for a heavy kratom habit. Dosed around 7.5g, lifted a lot of general leftover shittiness from the lope wd. Its like I have paws while still using opiates.

Its only been 4 days but the acute stuff is done. Just lingering shittiness.

Seedy

03-17-2012, 11:07 PM

Kindof like if someone with a H habit tries PST. Never even got me close to well.. although I haven't tried it without a habit..

i'm pretty sure a good dose of sure pst made from some quality seeds would keep all but the heaviest heroin users well. i'm sure many opiophiles would concur.

If You Care

03-21-2012, 10:10 AM

Princess Kitty

03-21-2012, 06:20 PM

i'm pretty sure a good dose of sure pst made from some quality seeds would keep all but the heaviest heroin users well. i'm sure many opiophiles would concur.

If I knew that my dr didn't test me I'd use pst to fill in for when I run out.

normus420

03-21-2012, 08:19 PM

I was doing the lope thing a week ago and I noticed some really fucked symptoms. At only 20mg I had blood coming out my ass and felt cloudy / dizzy at the peak of the high. Less is def. more with that shit.

Dude who said you gotta just suffer thru it is right. Get a few days off work, grab yer copy of trainspotting, n get ready to shit your pantalones.

dude you got high? as far as the other shit 20mg never did anything for my wd and if I had blood coming out my ass at that dose I would never touch the shit again.

Ive been taking around 40-50mg a day besides the first day and it def has kept me out of wd until I get some kratom and get back home to my subs. The weird part is when I try to use with it or if its in my system it blocks the high from all other opiates like worse then subs! its a strange side effect I have never heard anyone talk about before.

Opiophelia

03-21-2012, 08:47 PM

ive noticed those blocking effects as well. I thought it was the quality of dope getting shittier here, but it looks like it must be the lope.

I thought I should add, Ive been on lope for almost a week now, and today my face is sorta numb. what the fuck is that?

Im definitely not taking any tomorrow. hopefully my kratom gets here tomorrow or Ill have to go get some heroin.

If You Care

03-22-2012, 12:21 PM

Yup. Thirds on the blocking effect. Weird shit.

The 'high' felt more like a wake-up-still-drunk thing. I also woke up all fucking grogged out like I was on regular opiates. I felt it more after the first time when I used around 60mg.

borohydride

03-23-2012, 09:01 AM

Jonas McFeely

03-25-2012, 01:29 AM

Hansardo, I cannot even begin to fathom how wicked hard and dry your dumps must be. Akin to trying to pass chunks of granite through a drinking straw I'd assume. Good golly. Miss Molly.

BobTheFiend

04-12-2012, 07:37 AM

That damned -Cl has a LOT to answer for. Deschloro loperamide is x27.666 more potent in central activity compared with the parent drug. I'm still working on a home-bake style method of removing it. After than, I'm betting that esterifying the -OH will cause a similar jump in activity so it's in the M range. Loperamide from China is under $280/Kg!

Careful with high-dose loperamide, your screwing with your ATP transport system and that can be very bad (read fatal). I think loperamide uses P-glycoprotein (MDP1) to get into the brain but ABCB1 to get back out again. If you screw with that balance, you could be in real trouble. The glycoproteins are made in the kidneys...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP-binding_cassette_transporter

Lope would be better if it didn't require bombarding the PNS in order to squeeze a tiny bit into the brain. What do you think a moderate dose of your concoction would be?

OP, The body issues of my lope withdrawal were pretty epic, which I expected. The mental stuff was surprisingly harsh too. Similar to subs, but not quite as panicky. I took the stuff regularly for 8 or 9 months (probably longer). The duration of withdrawal was pretty long. I didn't have a normal BM for like 6 weeks and my nose ran like crazy for about the same time.

I don't miss the ridiculous dry mouth at all.