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Lopossum
11-07-2011, 07:44 PM
I did search the forum, but did not find a lot of information about sublingual morphine use. I am about to go pick up a couple MSContin 60s. I can't do needles (not for lack of trying!!) and I am chronically constipated on account of being a fucking junkie, so IV and plugging are pretty much out. I am wondering if anyone has tried these sublingually with success? My plan is to dissolve them in some sort of alcohol (a small amount) and just hold it under my tongue - think that will work?

chemboy7
11-07-2011, 08:51 PM
IDK, that's a lot to be absorbed sublingually.

retrogradeamnesia
11-07-2011, 09:02 PM
I think if it were viable there would be some sort of commercial sublingual/buccal preperation already available...

Your best bet is oral administration with CYP450 inhibition, both 3A4 and 2D6 are essential. Which could be combination of grapefruit juice, anithistamines, nigella and or herbs like lemon balm, chamomile the list goes on, UTSE. IMHO oral opiates are waste without it. (Oral pharm op8s themz were the daze!)

Then again like most say Morphine is a drug that really has to be injected for best effect.

Can I ask why IV not worked for you?

HydroApe
11-07-2011, 09:40 PM
If the needle thing is because you have a hard time registering, you could always IM morphine with decent effect. But then again....don't inject or IM pills.
I have the endo 60s a lot. I find them much more effective orally if I crush to a fine powder and shot glass them with warm water. They hit harder and it really doesn't diminish the legs.

Lopossum
11-07-2011, 10:14 PM
I think if it were viable there would be some sort of commercial sublingual/buccal preperation already available...

There is a commercial sublingual morphine preparation... it's not very common, but it exists! (This I discovered during my search engine quest, hehe.)


Your best bet is oral administration with CYP450 inhibition, both 3A4 and 2D6 are essential. Which could be combination of grapefruit juice, anithistamines, nigella and or herbs like lemon balm, chamomile the list goes on, UTSE. IMHO oral opiates are waste without it. (Oral pharm op8s themz were the daze!)

You know, I have not noticed too much of a boost when combining morphine with cytochrome P-450 inhibitors. IIRC, the CYP450 enzymes don't play as big a role in morphine metabolism as they do with something like hydrocodone, but I could be wrong. I don't get much of a histamine reaction from morphine either - maybe I am strange.

Is lemon balm really a CYP450 inhibitor? I grow this stuff in my garden - dead useful for a lot of things, didn't realize dope was one of em... swweeeeeet.


Can I ask why IV not worked for you?

There is something about needles in my veins that messes me the fuck up. I have to be sedated when I have blood drawn - seriously. I don't know why - I have no problem with getting vaccinated, for example, but somehow the idea of opening up my blood stream for any reason throws me into a panic... as in, every time I tried to IV I passed out, except for once, when I took a benzo and had someone else shoot me while I was blindfolded.

@HydroApe - Good idea about IMing/SCing... and of course it is a bad idea to inject pills. I am wary about IMing a pill because it seems like asking for an infection, but I have no doubt IM morphine would be hella pleasant. I have never IMed anything but it might be time to give it a try.

For those who have IMed morphine - where do you shoot it? In your glutes? Seems like the best spot to me.

Tonight, I crushed the MSContins up, dissolved in some salt water and drank - worked like a charm. Oral morphine works very well for me, honestly, and I have a tolerance equivalent to about 120 mg of oral oxycodone (IR).

omar
11-10-2011, 07:08 PM
I would say you're best bet would be to crush the pills up, add water to a shot glass, heat it in microwave to a boil, add crushed ms-contins, stir and let cool and then drink. But if you want them to aabsord sublingually just leave the solution under youre tongue and let it absorb. Before I shot morphine i would do this with my ms-contins because just crushing and pararchuting doesn't defeat the time release. If you had instant release they'd prolly dissolve just fine under your tongue, but thats obviously not your case. Anyway thats my two cents. Hope it helps.

Miss M
11-11-2011, 01:49 AM
Sublingual morphine is actually widely available and widely used....although
mostly in hospice patients and others that have difficulty swallowing pills.
The brand name version is called Roxanol.

It is very concentrated, 20 mg/ml and comes in a little bottle of 30 mls with
a marked eye dropper for administration. It tastes like poison (probably some
alcohol in the formulation) but works well w/rapid onset when administered
via the sub lingual or buccal routes.......

Definitely would be easier to use and more effective than trying to deal
with the pill that way.

epione
11-11-2011, 03:50 AM
...You know, I have not noticed too much of a boost when combining morphine with cytochrome P-450 inhibitors. IIRC, the CYP450 enzymes don't play as big a role in morphine metabolism as they do with something like hydrocodone, but I could be wrong. I don't get much of a histamine reaction from morphine either - maybe I am strange.

Well, maybe you are strange.
But you are correct regarding the metabolic pathways of morphine, or at least on the right track.
It is mostly (~75%) metabolised via glucuronidation, not through CYP450 enzyme rxns.
Using CYP450 inhibitors, 3A4 and 2D6 especially, should increase the effective oral dose by maybe 15%.
The primary enzyme used is UGT2B7 I think, so a UGT inhibitor would be of potential benefit.
Valerian root and depakote do this, tho the latter I woudn't mess with.
Don't forget other drugs/things you may be taking could also be effected by enzyme inhibition in an undesireable way.

epione
11-11-2011, 08:18 AM
...I am about to go pick up a couple MSContin 60s. ...My plan is to dissolve them in some sort of alcohol (a small amount) and just hold it under my tongue - think that will work?

So did you try the alcohol method you said you were or what?
Please post tek and results if you did.
What was the reason to try this, get a rush, bypass GI tract, both?

Do you get brand name contins, or malli's like me, or another generic?
Please give that info.

Why did you dissolve in salt water to then drink?
Omar says parachuting doesn't bypass time release mek.
Not the case for malli's, so I'm assuming he's talking about the brand-name drug.

IM where you have the most muscle mass if possible, glute, thigh, etc.
It is effective but very risky, just sayin, syringe filter here for sure.
But now we've already gone beyond the scope of your original post
and have no answers to it do we.

its good to expand the knowledge base about ROA's and shit,
but without certain info it doesn't mean much.
Not trying to single you out or pick on you or anything,
but IMO it sucks when the opportunity to get real usable info is lost.

You said you crushed up some contins and dissolved in some 'salt water' and it worked like a charm.
How much of what kind of contin? What exactly do you mean by salt water (like mg/ml), or even a spoonfull
in a glass of water, etc. What difference did it make, like compared to dissolving in plain water?

Ok man I'll shut up now, sorry if I killed your buzz or something...lol
have a good one.

Benz
11-11-2011, 10:26 AM
A concentrated morphine solution should be quite effective sublingually. It's widely accepted that its BA is superior plugging to eating & the way the drug enters the body is the same (transfer across mucous membrane).

I wouldn't IM anything if you don't already use needles & I certainly wouldn't inject a crushed tablet into a muscle. There's a huge potential for an abscess. Also, injecting ANYTHING into the glutes is a very risky activity. There is a nerve in that region that can be hit doing this that can cause a very nasty injury.



Benz

reddragon3668
11-11-2011, 11:29 AM
crush it, swallow.. obviously its not as good as IV or IM, but if plugging is out of the question, I'd simply swallow. I wouldn't underestimate it either. I have a fairly large tolerance and oral morphine does me fine. Good pain relief, just too sedating for me to enjoy much. Let us know how it goes, especially if you able to pull off a sublingal dose...

Lopossum
11-11-2011, 04:22 PM
I got mallies - the pink ones with the M stamp on one side and a 60 on the other, right?

Anyways, I put them in salt water because a guy I knew who used to IV those would do it and it worked like a charm for him. So I thought, why not orally as well? It wasn't super salty, and no I don't know the concentration in terms of mg/ml... remind me to get out the digital salt shaker next time ;-) tasted kinda like a really basic broth or stock for a soup.

Did not try anything sublingual that night. Maybe I will in the future.

Larkin
11-11-2011, 04:42 PM
i knew someone who would cut OC80s not OP's into 4 pieces and dissolve them under his tongue, even after i told him how much of a damn waste it was. but he said they dissolved fairly quickly.

for me oral morphine was always decent, it obviously took more than iv but i liked it. plugging never worked for me

Boudica
11-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Sublingual morphine is actually widely available and widely used....although
mostly in hospice patients and others that have difficulty swallowing pills.
The brand name version is called Roxanol.

It is very concentrated, 20 mg/ml and comes in a little bottle of 30 mls with
a marked eye dropper for administration. It tastes like poison (probably some
alcohol in the formulation) but works well w/rapid onset when administered
via the sub lingual or buccal routes.......

Definitely would be easier to use and more effective than trying to deal
with the pill that way.

Oh, man, Roxanol. I had this as my first pain med as a CP patient, and almost drove into a concrete wall on the freeway when I unexpectedly started nodding behind the wheel.

This is some powerful stuff and the only form of morphine that I can ever remember getting so plowed on.

Of course when I asked the Dr. for more, he switched me to the Ms Contins.

Fuckhead.

I think it's all in the time-release mechinism. It's tough to defeat, sadly. I wonder why Drs. don't rx the Liquid form for long-term use in patients? If it works, then what's the deal?

mamasou
11-13-2011, 09:27 AM
I believe that sublingual is better for substances that work on a mcg basis.

M does get absorbed from oral mucosa but the rate at which it does is slow. It is like trying to fit a 18 wheeler truck through your front door.

It is far better to crush and dissolve the pills in water and take them on an empty stomach.

Now if it is sustained release you will need to crush it to a powder before dissolving it.

But, depending on tolerance and dosage it is possible to give you a buzz.

Another way would be the nasal mucosa. Someone dissolved morphiuas 50mg/ml in saline solution along with a little chitosan, filtered it and then used the resulting solution in a nasal spray.

The delivery was about 2mg/dose which is not a lot. You would need 10 doses in each nostril to get 40 mg. The absortion is supposed to be very good though (higher than 60%). And the metabolite profile closer to IV than to oral (higher M6G than M3G).

But in all honesty, just powder the pills and take them on an empty stomach. It would at least speed up your absorption.

jspilt
11-13-2011, 10:02 AM
But in all honesty, just powder the pills and take them on an empty stomach. It would at least speed up your absorption.

An empty stomach, but I've always found that eating immediately after taking them helps a lot, maybe it's the stomach actively digesting the food instead of just basically still being empty.

retrogradeamnesia
11-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Sublingual morphine is actually widely available and widely used....although
mostly in hospice patients and others that have difficulty swallowing pills.
The brand name version is called Roxanol.

It is very concentrated, 20 mg/ml and comes in a little bottle of 30 mls with
a marked eye dropper for administration. It tastes like poison (probably some
alcohol in the formulation) but works well w/rapid onset when administered
via the sub lingual or buccal routes.......

Definitely would be easier to use and more effective than trying to deal
with the pill that way.

Ok I should clarify, my statement was in regards to BA as far as Im aware (please fell free to prove me wrong) the sublingual treatmeant are for that people who have difficulty swallowing pills not for an increase in BA...

As regards to not noticing any potentiation of effects with enzymatic inhibtion, the minimal increase in effects (for some) can be somewhat difficult to gauge but IME the increase in duration of effects would likely be somewhat more noticable.

hydrophile
11-15-2011, 03:59 PM
I got some liquid morphine one time only. It was 20mg/ml and it was a light clear green and mint flavored. The lady was a nurse so it makes sense that she would have access. It was really nice. Smooth but seemed to not last as long as just taking a regular morphine pill orally. How about snorting the ms's? I have snorted the reg ones on many occasions and always had amazing results. Then again this could just be my chemistry.

TheTalkingAsshole
11-15-2011, 07:16 PM
fuck nevermind