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borohydride
10-06-2011, 12:43 PM
As long as you have a reasonable (50ml+) amount of juice, this will work - it has worked for me many times & others on the board have had similar success. I've polished it a little for better results.

1-Place juice in a freezer - get it really cold & decant. The thickening agent will remain as a small mass of green jelly on the bottom/sides of vessel.

2-add pearls of lye (caustic soda/NaOH) one by one. All of a sudden the whole solution goes cloudy. Shake & as long as it stays cloudy - your done (only needs 4-5 per 100mg).

3-Heat in microwave in really short bursts - almost to boiling point.

4-let it cool SLOWLY. This makes bigger (easier to filter) crystals of freebase methadone.

5-Filter out solids using a coffee-filter (Bruchner-funnel & lab-filters are even better)

6-Wash with a little cold water & allow to dry.



You now have solid, almost pure methadone freebase powder. Smoke off foil or any similar method you choose (I would love to hear report using E-cigarette). In theory, this should work will the wafers as long as you filter out all solids before freebasing - but I've not tried it. Bear in mind - it's a strong hit taken this way!

danny
10-06-2011, 01:57 PM
cant rep you boro cause ive done it too much recently, but this is a diamond, soon as i get the space away from prying eyes ill definitely give it a try

Benz
10-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Pearls of lye? I have sodium hydroxide powder, how much would one use?



Benz

borohydride
10-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Just add little by little. Shake, add a little, shake... once it goes & stays cloudy.... your their. The cloudiness is the insoluble freebase methadone. It's just slightly soluble in hot water so heating & slowly cooling forms bigger crystals - a few people had problems filtering out the really fine stuff produced by my original TEK.

Count Zero
10-06-2011, 02:12 PM
Would it work with the pink sugar water and 10 mg pills we see in the colonies?

borohydride
10-06-2011, 02:14 PM
^I cannot be totally certain BUT I think it highly likely (like 95% sure).

Hopefully some of the people who already tried it can pipe in with their own improvements - let me tell you, it kicks in fast & hard - 50mg hit's like a GOOD 10 bag. Still keeps you going until the next day as well (smoked well the bio availability is slightly lower but the % in the brain is much higher - as are you).

Duckfeet
10-06-2011, 03:48 PM
Would it work with the pink sugar water and 10 mg pills we see in the colonies?

I get the 10mg pills myself...I'd be real interested in finding some way to make them 'do-able' I've broke'em down and fixed'em and plugged'em, but not much has happened, nothing like what I hear happens with 'real' mdone powder. Gotta find a way to make those pills 'better.'

upstate_007
10-06-2011, 03:53 PM
With the pills I would imagine that it would be as simple as dissolving them into water, filtering out the gunk and then using Boro's tek with the water/methadone mixture?

borohydride
10-06-2011, 03:55 PM
I get the 10mg pills myself...I'd be real interested in finding some way to make them 'do-able' I've broke'em down and fixed'em and plugged'em, but not much has happened, nothing like what I hear happens with 'real' mdone powder. Gotta find a way to make those pills 'better.'


With pills, just do the 'Woody/Boro™' pill-smoking TEK. Crush, add little baking soda, dry, smoke. It works for most any alkaloid as long as the BP of the freebase is low(ish). Pills are far easier, in fact. A 2 minute job...

duck
10-06-2011, 04:08 PM
Wait, does that work wit the flavored wafers? Could you explain s little more?

borohydride
10-06-2011, 04:19 PM
I've never come across the wafers. In essence you crush the bejesus out of pill & add a small quantity of a concentrated solution of washing soda (drop by drop until the whole thing is damp). A little warming will help. This removes the hydrochloride (the addition salt) leaving the freebase methadone (which is insoluble in cold water). Now, if there isn't too much filler & you don't mind the fumes, you just dry somewhere warm (or just chase to dry first & then carry right on vapourising). The BP of the freebase is quite low so it's not harsh (though the fillers might be!).

It will work on almost any pill as long as there aren't vast amounts of binding agent in there. I dunno just what pills TTA has tried, but any IR at all should be fine - ER may require a bit of testing.

duck
10-06-2011, 04:32 PM
I assume there are tons of binders the 40mghigh/warmthis wafer is fucking huge probably close to 1000mg

borohydride
10-06-2011, 04:51 PM
Well, dissolve & do linctus trick...

Count Zero
10-06-2011, 04:53 PM
Yeah but those 10 mg 542 42 pills are pretty damn small, I really hope someone gives this a try and reports back.

Lukey
10-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Hi there opio`s just a thought, after making your crystals from your done, as well as smoking it,could you inject it? Ive pinned the methadone ampouls (stung a bit) but after i was told that you would normally dilute them...anyhow just a thought as i dont often smoke my gear at the mo, and as im on 80mls a day and pick up weekly this would be right up my alley. Any help would be much needed? Any thoughts boro? Cheers ....lukey

borohydride
10-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Yes - you could salt it with citric or such...

Duckfeet
10-06-2011, 05:45 PM
Yeah but those 10 mg 542 42 pills are pretty damn small, I really hope someone gives this a try and reports back.

I appreciate the info on this, I get 40mg daily of those little pills, most days just do 15 - 20mg, but whenever I realize the huge difference between this methadone, and the pure powder, I knew one of you more chemically savvy types would come up with a way. I'll post back if I can get the materials and make this work.

Chipper
10-06-2011, 05:54 PM
Surely turning a treatment med into a possible DOC is the same questionable practise that keeps landing me in hospital ?

As much as it intruiges me, I'm sticking to oral ... the ultimate in reliability, convenience and longevity.

But thanks, all the same - I can't help but be interested (I'd certainly try it BUT only if you did it for me ;-))

Pantopon Pete
10-06-2011, 07:59 PM
A few questions for you, Boro:

I'm working with the thick, dark red cherry syrup.

It comes in a little plastic bottle. Can I just put this in the freezer? How long is "til it's really cold"? What do you mean by decant?

And Lye is just available anywhere, right?

And after filtering in coffee filter, should i just rinse powder with a little cold water right in the filter?

I'm detoxing, so I only have 50mg to work with, and don't want to eff it up.

Thanks in advance.

TheTalkingAsshole
10-06-2011, 10:02 PM
i can attest to the Woody/Boro TEK as far as making oxy smokable from pill form
im definitely going to give this a whirl, methadone is super cheap around these parts.

now the question arises, do i try this with bupe?

Count Zero
10-06-2011, 10:14 PM
Dude, you're trying to scale Everest before you've established a secure basecamp at 10,000 ft. The bupe thing would be like scaling K2 without oxygen before the tents have been set up. I'm jonesing to hear if the 10 mg done synth could work, I don't see many pills these days but that shit is widely RXed around here so it is everywhere, cheap as shit cause no one wants it who doesn't already get it.

TheTalkingAsshole
10-06-2011, 10:18 PM
Dude, you're trying to scale Everest before you've established a secure basecamp at 10,000 ft. The bupe thing would be like scaling K2 without oxygen before the tents have been set up. I'm jonesing to hear if the 10 mg done synth could work, I don't see many pills these days but that shit is widely RXed around here so it is everywhere, cheap as shit cause no one wants it who doesn't already get it.

ehm, im a bit confused by this analogy.
do you mean to say that vaporizing bupe would be an entirely different(and much larger)beast than methadone
which, i agree with, but if the proper precautions are taken it could definitely be doable.

borohydride
10-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Decant - pour from 1 vessel into another

I have not found the BP of buprenorphine freebase but it will be quite high. Not certain how it will go.

Lukey
10-15-2011, 03:07 PM
Ive been trying,but im failing even at the first hurdle(getting the thickening agent to appear,remain at sides or bottom of vessel) my freezer is set to minus 20.it just does'nt seem to thicken for me.It just freezes.Im using physeptone oral solution,1mg/1ml ,for which ive heard all methadone users will be switched too, if they all ready have'nt,i was told that by my key worker at my local meth treatment thingy.Mainly because its cheaper.Solution contains:Sodium Benzoate E(211),Hydrogenated Glucose Syrup (E965) 0.4ml/ml,and Sunset Yellow (E110) 0.008mg/ml,so a preservative,a sweetner and a coloring.Any ideas whats up?...Ive already gone through 300ml and no luck so far although i have'nt thrown anything away.What could i be doing wrong?.The first time i tried i followed to the letter,solution was cloudy,heated in micro then slowly cooled,then filtered,maybe hydrochloride particles were too tiny?,I did use coffee filters with funnel stuffed with cotton wool. Maybe thats the problem but im thinking if alls not well at the start (not getting the thickening agent seperating)then ive messed up before i should start on adding the pearls of lye? please someone/boro HELP ME please, i need to conquer this ,it sounds just too good for me to pass by...thanks....lukey

Lukey
10-18-2011, 03:04 PM
I thought i would report back..All is well,just tweaked it slightly....nice one

chopstix
10-30-2011, 02:12 PM
I tried it, but after about 15 heat cycles to get anything resembling "crystals," the precipitate just kinda melted into the coffee filter, the crystals were semi-liquid (sticky) at room temp..

The inital prep was ez: dissolve 10 10mg tablets in ~20ml water, filter out insolubles.
Add about 5 naoh crystals - solution instantly turns milky
heat cycle and spin the solution to try and form larger crystals. I spent total of probably 2-3 hours heat cycling the solution..

I smoked the gooey filter anyway, had a slight chemical taste and was nothing like shooting even 30-40mg done would be like. I thought I maybe felt something, but it was probably just placebo effect..

clinton
10-30-2011, 03:38 PM
What is the mg equivalent to 50ml? I'm on 100 Mgs, mine is a liquid concentrate that has to have water added.. Would that work?

retrogradeamnesia
10-31-2011, 09:47 AM
Id be interested to know at what sort of mg per ml ratio this has been tested at?

As juice here is diluted with water upto 200ml is there an optimal level at which precipitate form? Heating to evap to more concerntrated solution may be warranted to increase precipiation...

Spork
04-05-2012, 01:43 PM
If anyone tries this, be VERY careful.

The bioavailabilty / knock you on your ass factor is A LOT higher than drinking the syrup.

I threw up 4 hours after taking 170 mg worth of methadone (thankfully I hadn't eaten in days, so it was just methadone and water, and some stomach acid etc.

I saved it, evaporated it down a bit, with the intention of drinking the reduction.

So I took a bit, and was ready to drink it, so I checked the pH, and it was 2.2, too low to drink and would taste like shit.

So I added some baking soda. Bang pH goes up to 7.1, and all of a sudden, I have all these little fluffy white crystals at the bottom of the bowl!

I gathered them up and threw them on some foil, took a few hits.

Instantly I was cross eyed.

Then I woke up 6 hours later. SuperNod

I still have a BUNCH left too.

Shit is AMAZING. I am going to try this again the next time I get some methadone HCl

danny
04-05-2012, 02:26 PM
fuckin hell spork, youve REALLY piqued my curiosity now...soon as i get some time and space im on this, for sure...

nick
04-05-2012, 02:45 PM
fuckin hell spork, youve REALLY piqued my curiosity now...soon as i get some time and space im on this, for sure...

I'm surprised you haven't tried this already,Danny.

clinton
04-05-2012, 03:16 PM
Let's all give it a whirl

GOLD N DIEMONDS
04-05-2012, 03:25 PM
YO! this is just GREAT
TURN YOUR MAINTENANCE DRUG
remember the Drug you endure the daily clinic grind for-
because your life was a total mess, a step away from death.
YES TAKE THEE SAVIOUR DRUG
and make into a super potent illicit drug
'so you can get
STRUNG THE FUCK OUT ALL OVER AGAIN!
EXCEPT THIS TIME
YOU GOT NOTHING TO STOP THE FALL
AND FALL YOU WILL ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM ,
THERE YOU JUST LAY, WHY BOTHER HEY

*PROPS FROM THE ANTI -METHADONE FORCES THAT BE*
THANKS BROnono

clinton
04-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Theres always more Maintenance drug


(well almost, you get to super and robo junkys level and then maintenance is gone )

GOLD N DIEMONDS
04-05-2012, 03:51 PM
Theres always more Maintenance drug


(well almost, you get to super and robo junkys level and then maintenance is gone )

WHICH TOTALLY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF A MAINTENANCE DRUG,'
OR IS 500MG A DAY A GOOD LEVEL TO 'maintain on?

not to mention the super potent of a potent drug IS great way to OD

JUNKYJAY
04-05-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't tried this already,Danny.

Have you tryed it?
Hear we get Tang/Methadone I wonder if this will work with this product?
Hey Gold and Diamonds you know this board is full of junkeys EH?

nick
04-05-2012, 04:44 PM
Have you tryed it?
Hear we get Tang/Methadone I wonder if this will work with this product?
Hey Gold and Diamonds you know this board is full of junkeys EH?

No and I wouldn't-as I've pointed out several times over the years and GnD echoes above,abusing maintenance is really counter productive.
I haven't tried this because I'm not rxed methadone and I have more sense than to go score some done just to experiment.
Danny,on the other hand,has been around long enough to appreciate the pros and cons.Plus he's rxed methadone,but his prefered ROA is smoking.
Can you see the difference in circumstances?

SeVeN
04-05-2012, 05:14 PM
Im only on 40mgs of done. So my take home is 80mgs/

Would that even be enought to try it?

duck
04-05-2012, 05:16 PM
Spork- surely after 4 hours there was barely any methadone in your stomach, no?

GOLD N DIEMONDS
04-05-2012, 05:33 PM
Have you tryed it?
Hear we get Tang/Methadone I wonder if this will work with this product?
Hey Gold and Diamonds you know this board is full of junkeys EH?

ah it actual DIEmonds- that not a typo
yes being that I am a walking JUNKBOX OF A JUNKIE I'm very aware these is a junky site
i also know the much belittle METHADONE is best current maintenance drug made avaialable to those junkies who need OUT of active junkie life.
BUT PLAYIN KITCHEN CHEMISTYRY WITH YOUR MAINTANANCE DRUG IS DANGEROUS WITH AN UNKOWN QUANITY IN THE END = OD

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE SMOKING PRODUCES AN INTENSIVE RUSH WHICH IS SO GOOD IT WILL BECOME A MULTIDAY EVENT FOR MANY WHO THOUGHT THEY JUST TRY IT, ONCE
-BECAUSE TRUTHFULLY SOBERIETY IS BORING AFTER WE OPEN THE GLORY OF PANDORA BOX

THOSE UNFUTUNATE ONES, GET BADLY STRUNG OUT ON THEIR 'DONE, AND THEIR DOSE WOULDN'T HOLD THEM AND THIS SMOKIHN RAISE TOLLY QUICK BY 2-3X , WHERE WILL THE GO TO FIND THAT EXTRA 'DONE'
SO IT THE JUNKIE LIFE THEY FINALLY BROKE FREE FROM,COMING BACK AND GET THEM ACTIVELY JUNKIE ALL OVER AGAIN

WORST-
ODs, etc-THIS ALL PLAYS INTO THE POWERS THOSE WANT TO DO AWAY WITH THE METADONE PROGRAMS-

entiendo EH?

borohydride
04-06-2012, 11:40 AM
Woody/Boro™ TEK

I feel honoured as Woody knows his stuff on chemistry.

A Buchner-funnel with fine paper & as side-arm flask for vacuum-pump make it all work in 5 minutes. The Junkies in my area now sell 100ml juice for 20 and not 10 since this trick got out.


For people who can get M tablets (so M powder) I will soon do you a dibenzoyl morphine tek (it's like making H but easier).


Dunno if making you guys bigger heads than already is good for karma, but if it means 2 people can share 1 fix and both get well, I think it's OK. MY fentanyl is going up (again) so I guess I'm no different ;-)

PS Aren't Ignore Lists great? - the deranged, dyslexic, hick ramblings of a subnormal inbred with suppressed homosexual urges don't even have to be scanned before being ignored...

chopstix
04-06-2012, 12:16 PM
As I think I reported before, I had the same problem as the guy who just wound up with a gooey filter. A buchner filter would, what, dry it out? I don't know a buchner filter from a pile of broken pyrex.

I'd definitely like to see this work. Have no desire for that kind of jones, but I can get MD HCL pills all day long..

GOLD N DIEMONDS
04-06-2012, 04:57 PM
Woody/Boro™ TEK

I feel honoured as I AM SIMPLE A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND
I THINK I AM GODS GIFT TO CHEMISTRY

PS Aren't Ignore Lists great? - the deranged, dyslexic, hick ramblings of a subnormal inbred with suppressed homosexual urges don't even have to be scanned before being ignored...

AH BRONONO - you just proved yourself a liar , If I were reAlly on your ingore list
yiu would NOT feel the CHILDISH NEED TO UNLEASHE YOUR UNEXCEPRTABLE BIASED INSULTS' THOSE THAT USE TRUE HADICAPES AS WORD TO TRY TO HURT ME.

SORRY NO ONE REALLY DOES BOTHER WITH YOU IN PRATICE , YOUR POST HERE ARE TRULLY A WASTE,
CHOPSTSIX IS NO SLOUCHE, A VERY SMART MAN IN REALITY AND
IF HE COULD NOT PULLOFF YOUR SIMPLE TECH , no body will bother bere,'

BUTT FEED THAT EGO D\BRO,
YOU COULD NEVER KEEP UP WITH ME IN SMARTNESS GOING TOE TO TOE.
I COULSD BURY YOIU WITH YOUR WORDS SO QUICK ,IT JSUT WOULD BE FAIR

OR I COULD PULL UP SOME OF YOU OWN POST THAT TELL HOW DANGEROUS THIS PRODUCT REALLY IS,
I FORGET- HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU SAY OD ON THIS ???
WAY TO GO CHAMP,
JUST KILL US !!!

PS- IT WORTH NOTING NICK DISAAPPROVES OF YOUR PRATICE TOO,
OR IS HE THE ONE YOU REFERING TO AS BEING HOMO-SEXUALLY SURPRESSED


BTW -HOMOPHOBIA IS NOT WELCOME HERE, YOU DONE THAT A LOT-TO MUCH !

danny
04-06-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm surprised you haven't tried this already,Danny.

youre surprised nick? how dyou think i feel?

honestly mate, it really is a case of time space and privacy being an issue, as soon as those issues are resolved ill give it a whorl, i appreciate yours and gnds concerns, its never wise to fuck about with your maintenance but its no different with me trying to smoke it than people with pin fever trying to pin it, its not right but unfortunately its the nature of the beast...i know me though and if its any rigmarole that will put me off more than anything, im a right lazy bastard...

chemboy7
04-06-2012, 07:00 PM
When I was on MMT I would shoot my take homes all the time. It was a syrup so I'm assuming it wouldn't be much different than shooting pure Methadone (in terms of how much drug you are getting in your blood, not as far as safety is concerned) and I wasn't all that impressed. I mean, obviously it was better than oral or I wouldn't have done it but I didn't have the glowing experience you're talking about. Am I wrong about the syrup or is smoking more effective than IV with Methadone? That'd be strange.

If I was still on that soul-sucking poison I'd try your TEK. I mean I see what others point is, harm reduction and all, but we're addicts... we abuse medication. I, along with many others, have talked openly about shooting our MMT syrup and no one gave us any shit. Don't really see the difference. Sure, advise those that will listen not too; but honestly I'd rather have the kind of harm reduction that shows users how to do stupid shit they'd already be doing a little bit safer. I'd be shooting my syrup today if I was still on it, and a simple procedure to clean it up just seems like good HR to me.

But, that being said, I agree about the homophobia. There is a bigger gay community here than you may realize; and even if there wasn't, it's just not cool. I'm 99% straight (no one is completely) and I can't understand why anyone dislikes gays. Some of them are a hell of a lot cooler than the heteros I know. You'd think a board of junkies would be a bit more tolerant.

Just my two cents. I've no grudges; in fact I repped Boro (and later I will Woody) for their contribution. People (myself included) need to lighten the fuck up around here lately.

borohydride
04-07-2012, 01:16 AM
http://image.tutorvista.com/content/organic-compounds/filtration-buchner-funnel.jpeg

Freeze & decant it it first - that way the thickening agent that makes the funnel gooey is left in the bottle. With fine paper and a decent vacuum you can powder 200ml in about 5 minutes. Wash filter with acetone & dry acetone - the remainder is like 'cottons' and if you repeatedly do this, you wind up with a decent dose in your 'acetone drip-tray'.

Smoking is better than shooting because fat-loving methadone looks to exit blood as soon as possible so lungs->heart->brain means distribution is more to brain than to general fat-tissue in injecting into a vein. When you shoot, methadone is going TO the lungs and not from them.... there ends physiology 101 (joking). No, everyone who has smoked their daily pick-up got wrecked even when on stable dose. Like I said though, where do you go when you doubled your addiction using your addiction treatment? We have witnessed what happened to people with unrestricted fentanyl access and there is so much juice here, it's easy to get a gorilla... I speak as someone with 2x100ug/h patches and oramorph which isn't a brag, it's a fucking nightmare.



Note to bitter red-necks with IQs of 167 (ha!)

English: an Indo-European language belonging to the West Germanic branch; the official language of Britain and the United States.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ I enclose link to dictionary

dictionary/ˈdikSHəˌnerē/
Noun:
A book that lists the words of a language in alphabetical order and gives their meaning, spellings and equivalent words.

As a further hint to some:

http://static.wowace.com/content/images/11/910/capslock.jpg[/url]

I cannot read what you say - ignore is wonderful, but that you DO reply is fun enough - unkind maybe; like punching a retard... well, precisely that, in fact ;-) Cheer up - I will die soon ;-)

--- auto merge ---

[img]http://static.wowace.com/content/images/11/910/capslock.jpg

Timing... killed that one ;-)

GOLD N DIEMONDS
04-07-2012, 02:54 AM
blah blah blah


Note to bitter red-necks with IQs of 167 (ha!)

I cannot read what you say - ignore is wonderful, but that you DO reply is fun enough - unkind maybe; like punching a retard... well, precisely that, in fact
--- auto merge ---

MY Timing...almost killed ME ;-)


NO you moron what is funny is that it so fucking OBVIOUS that i can so easy hurt your fragile ego
YOU are the one the gets ANGRY WITH ME
I PLAYING YOU LIKE THE FOOL YOU ARE
CAUSE IT SO EASY TO.

OH THE IQ AGAIN GET IT STRAIGHT IT IS 153
I POST BEFORE AND YOU READ IT JUST LIKE YOU READ EVERY POST OF MINE
I KNOW YOU DO, I HAVE A WAY OF TELLING :)

AND NOW IT IS THE RETARD HANDICAP INSULT
HEY HOW YOUR LEG , THAT ONE YOU BLEW OF TRY TO MAKE ILLICT DRUGS AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING
STILL HOPING? GOOD EASTER IS COMING AND YOU CAN PRETEND YOUR THE EASTER BUNNY AND HOP AROUND, UNTIL YOU FUCKER YOURSELF UP AGAIN

YOU ARE THE FOOL
I AM THE MASTER
SEE I KNOW YOUR BUTTON TO PRESS AND YES YOUR REPLY TO THEM JUST ASK I REQUESTED ,
YOU DID NOT SEE THAT COMING
NOW WHO THE ONE WHO NEED TO READ AND WRITE BETTER
NOT I
I NEVER INCLUDE YOU IN MY POST YOU ADDRESS YOU POST SPECIFICALLY TO A MAN WHO YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE ON IGNORE

HEY GIMP DO YOU KNOW WTF A 'TELL' IS IT A SLANG TERM, I KNOW YOURS TELLS
I ALSO HAVE A FEW FRIEMNDS THAT ARE PUBLISHED CHEMIST YOU ACTUAL REFERENCED TO ONE OF HIS BOOKS , HE CALL YOU COPYTPATENTWASTE , GET IT WASTE NOT PASTE

HERE IS A STRAIGHT UP QUESTION THAT WILL LET ME KNOWN WHO YOU AREN'T AND WHAT YOU DON;T KNOW

HAVE YOU EVER MADE THE DANGEROUS METHADONE COMPOUND USING THE TECH YOU DISPLAY AND WRITE HERE?
A)YES
B)NO
OR
C) NO - I CAN NOT DO THIS. I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO......that why i am here LOOKING

PS THIS IS NOT THE FF NAME CALLING,INSULTS EG/ RETARD is breaking the rules
care to meet me in the FF , WE CAN HAVE A RUNNING RACE THERE :)

PS I CAP AND BOLD AS I PLEASE DOES THAT BOTHER YOU TOO.
YOU POOR SOD JUST 'THICK AS A BRICK'

Michael.
04-07-2012, 03:37 AM
I've tried this just one time, as when I'm insistent on abusing my takehomes, I'll just reduce my 'done and IV it and there's an easier way. However I tried this out once with my own and helped a friend do it with his because I have caustic around for another, similar purpose.

I don't have a buchaner funnel but have this ghetto rigged one of my own. It's basically a small pill bottle with the bottom half cut off that I turn upside down. I made several holes in the screw on lid and basically slot a filter in it, screw it tight, holding the filter in place then just force air through the top of the funnel, which clears it out.

I only had 60mgs to play with but I feel I got most of it out. I put the filter in a metal sieve and slowly dried it. I did it over foil and it worked. Was quite neat but I don't think I'll be repeating it. I don't want to play fire and fuck up my maintenance. Doing it once for experience was neat and all but I'm going to leave this for the dedicated smokers.

borohydride
04-07-2012, 05:01 AM
^Nice work, fella! There's me jabbering on about lab-kit and you've figured a cool method for all. This is surely now The Michael TEK. Obviously now there is a route everyone can try.


http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2012-04-01_8767191804462005/movies/deliverance/duel_y.wav
http://thelockativecase.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/mullet.jpg
That [b]h0g suuuRe haz a preddyyy m0[b]uth ;-)

nikita70
07-19-2012, 12:35 PM
With pills, just do the 'Woody/Boro™' pill-smoking TEK. Crush, add little baking soda, dry, smoke. It works for most any alkaloid as long as the BP of the freebase is low(ish). Pills are far easier, in fact. A 2 minute job...

Thanks, boro,

you don't even know how precious/helpful your advices can be for me.
right thread in right time, so to say.
Methadone we here in Poland get is 0,1%ly solution (1mg/1ml), really sweet and thick, with probably LOADS of different "agents" inside-I'm fully ignorant in chemistry' issues, but my buddy who is really really good in that game told me once that with under 1 liter of 0,1%ly solution (1 gram at that) it's completely failure; not even worth to start fuck with: a low concentration-too much loss. He said that over 1 liter having to disposal he eventually might try to undertake. I don't know if "our" methadone is so much different comparing to yours---it's quite possible, considering the common practice of adding some juice to the solution (in order to prevent "condemnable practice" of i.v. using, as I believe). It doesn't occurs in Poland, never. What leads me to the conclusion your methadone may be in fact higher concentration than mine and better suitable to various "contrindicated activities", so to said.
How's your methadone' usuall percentage? And, is that "juice" the only, or at least mainly "protection" against "inapropriate using"?

Anyway, going to UK next week and hoping to get an access to the methadone in some decent tablet-form LASTLY!!! (what is here in Poland completely inavailable; pure rarity) I'm really excited by this thread. I'm already literally fed out (not to said "sick" for an obvious reason) of drinking this sweet shit everyday, not even to count on some decent opiate pleasure for years... London seems to be my last chance; I thought I'm already sentenced/doomed in this thickness and damned sweet taste, with its monotonous, "one-way using", forever.
Pills looks to be a Godsend. This is an optimal solution, if only works, with a little bit of luck and help of my friend I might have an immaculate fix while in the same time maintaining the "immaculate" urine tests. Ha.

Well, boro, kinda quickly edit to an ignorant please: if I get well the meaning of the process I would go this way, kinda freely combining of two attached recipes; and please correct me if (and where) I'm wrong: first crush the pills, resolve with water? (filtering?), add some baking soda? (to extract the base), warm/dry?, filter? how? (so the crystals/goodies get separated well), eventually rinse with water? and...meal! Or should I reduce the procedure to the minimum? Oh, I'm afraid, I messed it all up...
I'm still very strong suggested by the various ways of "polish heroin"/"kompot" producing' process... That "mindtrack" is so insultive...

And please, keep in mind I'm going to shot it up, what might probably alters the situation?

borohydride
07-19-2012, 12:42 PM
I've looked at a host of methadone linctus ingredients and none of them will affect the final process. (High BP) amines are soluble in acidic media (so the hydrochloride) but insoluble in basic media as far as water is concerned.

You will KNOW when the pH goes low enough since the liquid becomes opaque (you cannot see through it). That is freebase methadone suspended (not dissolved as the hydrochloride was) in water. Filter with fine paper, wash with more water (to remove caustic soda) and dry (takes just a few minutes). This can be smoked or salted with citric (or similar) for IV.

It's not clever and it's not big - but it does get the most out of linctus.

nikita70
07-19-2012, 02:43 PM
How about pills? Assuming that I followed your advices designed for "smokers" and stopped on the point "dry"...
Could I just resolve the product adding some citric/acid to the water, then filter to remove dirt and finally replace the last command: "smoke" by: "shoot up"?

borohydride
07-19-2012, 02:48 PM
If you dissolve the pills in hot water and filter out the insoluble materials first - it will work just the same. Methadone hydrochloride is water soluble, methadone freebase is not.

You can salt the freebase with citric or such to IV, not that I advocate needles - smoking works BETTER.

PoppyLlama
08-08-2012, 09:09 PM
hey boro, so 3 questions regardingusing Methadone pills instead of linctus (these are the 54 142 white circular ones):

Question One: how much water would you recommend to use for each 50 mgs?

Question Two: After doing the CWE, I don't have to decant it do I? I can just start adding the NaOH and go from there?

Question Three: What's the best thing to use to filter the methadone crystals out? I'd rather not use a coffee filter, but I don't have access to labware, what would you suggest?


So I just edited your original tek to one that would work for pills:

1-Place juice(in this case the filtered CWE liquid) in a freezer - get it really cold

2-add pearls of lye (caustic soda/NaOH) one by one. All of a sudden the whole solution goes cloudy. Shake & as long as it stays cloudy - your done (only needs 4-5 per 100mg).

3-Heat in microwave in really short bursts - almost to boiling point.

4-let it cool SLOWLY. This makes bigger (easier to filter) crystals of freebase methadone.

5-Filter out solids using a coffee-filter (Bruchner-funnel & lab-filters are even better)

6-Wash with a little cold water & allow to dry.

PoppyLlama
08-09-2012, 10:18 PM
anybody have answers? sorry to bump this thread but I really wanna know and I really wanna try this but I can't try it til I have the knowledge which can only be acquired through my lovely lovely Opiophilers

PoppyLlama
08-10-2012, 04:15 PM
what the hell? sorry I messed up that last post, I was trying to ask if it would be possible to use a wheel filter adn a needleless syringe instead of a buchner funnel. could you just cuz the wheel filter to catch the methadone after it's crystallized in step 4? then after you filter it just cut the wheel filter open and dry it out and get all the goodies house?

Michael.
08-10-2012, 08:03 PM
You can do what I do, to make a ghetto buchner funnel. Get a pill bottle and unscrew the lid, poke tons of little holes all over it til it's like a sieve. Then cut out a piece of filter paper and double it across the inside of the cap. Then put your solution with the methadone precipitated out, into a rig and using that rig plug it into the bottom of the pill bottle, pushing the solution through the filter like a buchner. I've tried to draw a diagram for you.

You get how it works? Basically the crystals stay in the filter paper, when you're done (you should give it two or three pushes through to make sure you catch everything. Then you fold your filter paper and wrap it in paper towels and press down HARD on it to soak up the solution. I'd recommend using the same mechanism to rinse it with fresh neutral ph water too.
http://i45.tinypic.com/30lcq9x.jpg

jill
08-10-2012, 08:29 PM
Just a friendly reminder...please do not put ellipses (...) at the end of post titles. :) The program doesn't like it.

They are fine anywhere else (as far as I have heard).

borohydride
08-11-2012, 04:54 AM
http://i45.tinypic.com/30lcq9x.jpg

Heartbreaking work of staggering genius! I would never have considered this idea and all credit to your nation that the 'can do' spirit is alive and well (along with the 'she'll be right' attitude).

--- auto merge ---

Looking a 'One of the UKs Largest Shopping Destinations' (as the blurb says):

250ml side-arm flask 15
Buchner funnel (comes with box of filter papers) 5
Mini-Vac pump 20

You also need a bung (with hole) and some thick-walled tubing (for vacuum).

I think the comparable stuff in the US us a little cheaper. Michael's method is the way to go to test it out (and please, please try chasing it off foil & then compare to shooting it - smoking is better IMO) but if this becomes 'a thing' for you and your friends, the real thing is so quick and simple. The value of juice in the UK seems to be coming down and I know in this burg, 2 guys are buying all the juice they can to make powder (showing how shit the brown is).

chopstix
08-11-2012, 10:32 AM
I got it to work, smoked 100mg - honestly I wasn't that impressed, but my tolerance is pretty high. 100mg orally would only hold me about 12hrs.

I got off slightly more than shooting it, but not much. (as an aside, I just learned that you shouldn't shoot concentrations of MD > 10mg/CC - otherwise it becomes caustic and destroys tissue).

Also, I don't know if there were impurities left over or not, but it didn't vap clean or run at all - is it supposed to?

PoppyLlama
08-11-2012, 11:06 AM
hell yeah thank you guys! I'll end up trying this sometime in the next couple weeks

so after you dry out the filter you just like, open it up over a piece of glass and tap on it so the done falls off?

borohydride
08-11-2012, 11:07 AM
^It doesn't run too well - that is an issue. The melting-point of the freebase is around 175C but the boiling-point is 523C or rather it would be if it didn't oxidise first. The way I do it is to use 2 layers of foil. It takes much longer to get moving but the very second you move away the heat, it solidifies again (with a single layer, by the time you know it's getting too hot, you have already damaged the goods).

Like everything, it takes practice but when you get it just right, you KNOW you got it right. I think my tolerance is pretty hefty but 100mg still worked for me (and 100mg swallowed does nothing at all).

Michael.
08-12-2012, 07:45 PM
Thank you boro, Compliments on my ghetto-buchner coming from you are greatly appreciated.

regarding drying it, what I'd do if you used my method, squeeze the folded filter between some paper towels to soak out the solution, then unfold the filter, but keeping the powder centred (it'll be pressed together in the middle) and put it into a sieve and hold that over a low heat hot plate / glass stove to dry.

borohydride
08-13-2012, 03:42 AM
Anything below about 150C won't harm it. The pure compound has a MP of 175C but any tiny impurities (possibly a hint of sugar or such) will lower said BP. You can wash the filter-cake with acetone (which the freebase IS soluble in) to get it all out - acetone has a BP of 56C but obviously only heat with a water-bath (and don't smoke).

It's all good - I am curious to know if people have better luck smoking using 2 layers of (thin) foil.

Michael.
08-14-2012, 12:25 AM
I doubt I'd smoke mine, was thinking of divvying it up and mixing it into my wraps when I next peg out a card of 100s. Give them a bit of oomph. Usually I get 11-12 "point" wraps from a gram of morphine, a/b extracted and acetylated.

borohydride
08-14-2012, 04:34 AM
^If you want increased duration, potency & smokability, you can reduce methadone to methadol (I presume if you can get AA, you can get NaBH4 & methanol?) and acetylate it along with the morphine making acetylmethadol. It appears that the methadols have a much lower eudysmic ratio (so the non-opioid 50% i.e. (S)methadone becomes the active (S)acetylmethadol). I leave it to others to describe the long-QT issue ;-)

quzyke
08-18-2012, 07:11 AM
Ok so I have about 18ml of clear 4mg/ml methadone syrup, I'm not SURE of the additives, but it is syrupy and thick, so definitely more than just water. I don't have a filter, but plan on reducing liquid after the crystals have formed by absorbing it with cotton/toilet paper carefully as to not touch the crystals. I'll let them settle at the bottom to minimize the risk of soaking them up. Is this a good idea? Can it be done just this way? Add methadone to small shot glass, add drops of ammonia until solution remains cloudy after shaking, let crystals settle at bottom and then absorb most/all liquid with cotton/toilet paper? Then I would scrape all crystals onto a mirror and let it airdry until it seems smokeable. This is how I make my freebase cocaine kinda, so I THINK it works. But advice would be appreciated. The reason I'm gonna try it this way is because I don't have all those filters and this way just seems way easier. The heating stage is not necessary if I'm correct, is it? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'd love to smoke some methadone. Don't wanna fuck up my biggest part of my sunday dose however, so I gotta be sure it'll work. Also for some reason my enter pressing to make paragraphs doesn't work and it still comes out as a wall of text after several edits. My apologies.

borohydride
08-18-2012, 07:44 AM
Have you got coffee-filters, water and caustic soda (natronloog)?

quzyke
08-18-2012, 09:53 AM
Have you got coffee-filters, water and caustic soda (natronloog)?

Check on the water, no caustic soda & coffee filters however :( we got an espresso machine so... Maybe I'll just drink it and try it with like 5ml... I'm kinda scared of my crystals getting stuck on the coffee filter or I'd go buy some.

I just got this feeling that my method SHOULD work, I just need some confirmation from someone who knows what he's saying, like you boro, you seem to know shitloads about drug chemistry. So I'm waiting on that before I do anything that might ruin my last methadone 'till monday.

borohydride
08-18-2012, 12:49 PM
One trick for removing the thickening agent is to place the methadone in the freezer for a few hours. The thickening agent ends up as a thick sludge at the bottom of the bottle - just pour out and it's left behind. The stuff is much more like green water after that.

I guess a tiny bit of methadone could be lost, but judge by the volume of the sludge how much it could possibly be.

40mgtoFreedom
08-22-2012, 02:46 PM
would mixing with something else such as caffeine like some brands of H help it run better? Swim's going to try smoking out of glass rose (if you have to ask...) as well as light bulb w/ carb for diff glass thickness. any thoughts?

borohydride
08-22-2012, 03:42 PM
It should lower the MP. If your going to vapourize it efficiently, you don't really have to run it with the volume of material being much smaller.

chopstix
08-22-2012, 04:18 PM
Boro I have a request: it's totally up to you, but for me, and I imagine others trying to absorb the chemistry posts, who, like me, have no formal training but a strong interest in learning, would likely benefit a lot if you or anyone else could put the chemical name in parenthesis after the Molecular Formula (I think that's what it's called).

Example: NaOH (lye); H2O (Water) - I know this would help me (at least) greatly (and help me correlate structures with chemicals in my head, an educational aid if you will).

Mad props if you could oblige..

borohydride
08-22-2012, 04:25 PM
I will do so in future. You have correctly identified the 2 magic ingredients for freebase methadone so I take it your OK with that?

chopstix
08-22-2012, 04:49 PM
I will do so in future. You have correctly identified the 2 magic ingredients for freebase methadone so I take it your OK with that?

Ya ya, not this post, but in the future - *GREATLY* appreciated, thanks man!

PoppyLlama
08-23-2012, 09:02 PM
I had the opportunity to use your method (using the ghetto buchner funnel) on 500 mgs of methadone. When I was done I smoked 100mgs and I definitely enjoyed it. It was like back in the day when I had no tolerance and would do methadone and I would just be high forEVER. I thought it was great, stayed high from 10 AM til I went to sleep at 9PM

borohydride
08-24-2012, 03:22 AM
Methadone freebase is hydrophobic/lipophilic so it wants out of the blood & into the brain as fast as it can - this is why smoking works better than shooting IMO. At physiological pH methadone is 98% deprotonated in the hydrochloride form so cannot pass the BBB. Of the people I know who have tried shooting & smoking - they all smoke (even those with needle fever).

duck
08-24-2012, 06:08 AM
Spork- surely after 4 hours there was barely any methadone in your stomach, no?

....right?

40mgtoFreedom
09-05-2012, 01:03 PM
SWIM gets his 10mg/ml cherry liquid from clinic which works just fine using this method. However SWIM's two pet iguanas both get the orange 40mg slightly square diskettes. (not sure if they are lilly or not, will take a closer look when SWIM visits his pets next week) SWIM has tried overnight soak of diskette/orange goop in water, then filtering and freebasing but yield is very low. This leads SWIM to think that most of methadone is left in the goop.... at least a good 60 percent. Would adding something initially to the soak, something that would simulate stomach acid be the way to go, and if so in what way would adding lye in later step affect this?) SWIM has advised his iguanas to just switch to the drink but it would be suspicious in one iguanas case and in the others it would require waiting another month to get through take homes.

borohydride
09-05-2012, 01:50 PM
Use more water (hot) and filter. Then freebase & filter out product. I recommend the Michael ghetto method unless you like to do things the posh way in which case a buchner funnel with fine filters, a side-arm flask & a vacuum source (hand pump good enough).

underide
09-21-2012, 09:11 AM
Just did this with with 50ml methadone that i bought on the side.
What we have here is liquid, green methadone syrup like they have in the UK. Brand name - "Pinadone"
I do get a take-home, but it's the only one i get for now so i didn't wanna fuck with it - just more out of concern that i might fuck it up somehow, even though it's a simple tech.
As i say - I did try this once before but it wasn't much of a success. (i was a bit high at time, though)
Today was my second attempt.

So i left the methadone in the plastic 100ml bottle that it came in.
I put a tiny bit of water in it (about 5-8ml) - just a little bit - my theory is it speeds up the process of separating the thickening agent as it freezes from within and helps push it out to stick to the sides (i don't know if that actually makes sense, but it certainly didn't hurt the process by the looks of it)
So i put it straight in the freezer and kept checking on it. (Last time i tried, i was tweeked and i messed it up - left it in for too long and it all froze to form this very hard, semi-solid goo..i also managed to somehow fuck the whole process altogether)

This time i would check every 3 to 5 minutes, and after roughly 12-15 minutes in, i took it out and poured the near-freezing methadone out into a separate glass.
There was a thin layer of what seemed to be frozen thickening agent stuck to the sides of the bottle, but there really isn't too much of it compared to the actual methadone solution if you're judging by volume.

So i let it stand at room temperature for about 5 minutes.
It was still considerably cold, and i proceeded to the next step.
I added some lye. Just a small amount (maybe a few grains).
It turned from dark/green (still sort of translucent) into a very opaque/dark-grey coloured liquid.
I shook it for about 5-6 minutes.
Nothing else changed from that point on so i let it stand for a few minutes.

I then put the solution into the microwave.
I hit the power and let it go for exactly 5 seconds.
Then stop. Then on again for the same amount of time. Then stop. Repeat.
I did this exactly 8 times without actually bringing it to a boil, each time allowing a little more time for it to cool down, before putting it back in. Just before the final heating i took it out and saw that it got a little lighter in colour.
I added a pinch of baking soda (just a tiny bit really) and as it hit the solution it immediately solidified into a clump. I fished the little clump out. (got rid of it)
I then put the solution into the microwave again, this time leaving the power on for about 10 seconds, at which point i saw it almost come to a boil. (i think you have to be careful not to over-boil, but it's ok to bring it to just about boiling)
As i took the solution out this time, i saw that the liquid has turned into translucent yellow/orange and within it you could see very bright white crystals.
I let it cool in the glass as it formed more crystals. They were actually very decent in size, which really surprised me.
After 10 minutes of cooling i filtered using coffee filters.
As i poured the crystals into the coffee filter, i saw them start to change colour from white (as they we in the glass) to this very synthetic/dark-grey looking crystals, which also surprised me a bit.

I dumped them out onto a small pyrex dish and put them into the oven to dry them out.
I put them on low heat, opting to dry them slowly.
10-15 minutes and i had myself just under 50mg's of nice methadone crystals.

I used the foil to smoke it.
But it is very different to something like heroin. Just doesn;'t run and you have to heat quite considerably.
I think i should have use a crack-bottle type pipe, with a bit of ash.
But in any case - it does work.

I wouldn't say i was blown away by this, exactly, but i did get a nice high. I did only have 50mg's to play around with, so.
It's different, that's for sure. I'm still feeling it, i think. I
It doesn't take very long to do this as well, nor do you need much chemistry skills or precursor chemicals, which is good.

Next time i might try actually using acid to break it down and IV.

borohydride
09-21-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm glad someone has picked up the trick of freezing out the thickening agent. It makes the filtering a lot easier. I've not messed around with the smoking aspect as much as the actual chemistry but our Belgian guy was suitably happy with his experience so maybe he can offer more details. People have suggested adding caffeine which should lower the melting-point. Don't forget, your not trying to boil the stuff, all liquids exert a vapour-pressure which means there is always some vapour and this increases as a curve as the temperature goes up. Ideally I suppose controlled heat at 200-210C would be ideal... something rigged from a soldering iron or such. I've used an electric hob in the past. I set it for 2o0C, when it reached the set temperature I placed a bit of tin foil with freebase on it, wiped a knife over it to flatten it and toked through a tube... that worked well...

BTW If anyone thinks they fucked up, just throw in white vinegar, citric or similar until the pH comes down and drink. Tastes nasty but NaOH + CH3COOH --> NaOOCCH3 + H2O. a couple of grams of sodium acetate won't do you any harm.

Kaplan
09-21-2012, 02:32 PM
Really good thread, much educational. Thank you everyone for the inputs. I'll give it a try next time i get my hand on enough mtd pills. Which should be soon enough no doubt. I'll try come back and report... or ask for some help.

Unbalanced
12-07-2012, 08:04 PM
I got two question, first is any of these additives a so called "thickening agent":
Saccharin, Sucrose, Glucose ?

And my second question is to a post Borohydride you made in the beginning of the thread;

With pills, just do the 'Woody/Boro™' pill-smoking TEK. Crush, add little baking soda, dry, smoke. It works for most any alkaloid as long as the BP of the freebase is low(ish). Pills are far easier, in fact. A 2 minute job...
So just crush the methadone pills, mix with baking soda and add a little (water?) and let it dry and smoke?

Thanks in advance

Unbalanced
01-01-2013, 09:14 PM
Sorry for the double post, to old to edit the former.

Im trying with Lye and my liquid Methadone which is 5mg/ml.

I took about 50mg so 10ml of Methadone and added about 3-4 pearls of Lye and it went milky, can't see through it at all.
Then I put it into the microwave and heated, not to a boil though and then I let it cool inside and then colder and colder and finally I put it in the freezer until it was really cold
but therer are no solids or crystals forming. The solution looks just like it did at room temperature no change what so ever.

Am I missing some step here ?

Thanks!

Duckfeet
01-01-2013, 10:53 PM
As others have said: great thread, as I've both types of methadone, liquid and pills...well done, boro! We've always been lucky here, with the chemists who've helped us improve our lot :)

borohydride
01-02-2013, 02:55 AM
Sorry for the double post, to old to edit the former.

Im trying with Lye and my liquid Methadone which is 5mg/ml.

I took about 50mg so 10ml of Methadone and added about 3-4 pearls of Lye and it went milky, can't see through it at all.
Then I put it into the microwave and heated, not to a boil though and then I let it cool inside and then colder and colder and finally I put it in the freezer until it was really cold
but therer are no solids or crystals forming. The solution looks just like it did at room temperature no change what so ever.

Am I missing some step here ?

Thanks!

It's milky - that's the freebase suspended in the water. You freeze out the thickening agent before basing, ideally, but it's not the end of the world. Check out Michaels 'Ghetto Buchner' which I'm sure you can make. Just follow his instructions to get powder methadone freebase which you may smoke or salt/shoot (although for pure hit & HR reasons I recommend the first). It takes a bit of practice but the juice that just held you can get you high... Quzyke (sp?) wrota a lot about it...

40mgtoFreedom
01-02-2013, 03:09 AM
@Unbalanced add a lil water to thin it out, maybe about half as much as your total solution volume, you should see flakes begin to form

borohydride
01-02-2013, 03:33 AM
Actually Underide has written it up perfectly - much better than I managed. As people have fairly complained before, I'm not good at putting stuff into common English, I tend to assume people follow all the standard synthetic chemistry terminology... which is my bad.

Crack pipe might be good. I don't see the 2 guys around here who went on a huge bender with it last year. They were sitting outside pharmacies buying up all of the towns juice. I suspect they were robbing or such to afford it (I mean, they were doing in a couple of dozen scripts per day) so I don't know what happened. I am CERTAIN it cannot be good.

Try and enjoy as a one-off or on a very occasional basis, but if you get into this then it's got the worst part of crack & the worst part of H addiction all in one!

Unbalanced
01-05-2013, 04:28 AM
@Unbalanced add a lil water to thin it out, maybe about half as much as your total solution volume, you should see flakes begin to form
Alright will try and add some water next time.

My Methadone contains alcohol does this hinder the process ?


Actually Underide has written it up perfectly - much better than I managed. As people have fairly complained before, I'm not good at putting stuff into common English, I tend to assume people follow all the standard synthetic chemistry terminology... which is my bad.

Crack pipe might be good. I don't see the 2 guys around here who went on a huge bender with it last year. They were sitting outside pharmacies buying up all of the towns juice. I suspect they were robbing or such to afford it (I mean, they were doing in a couple of dozen scripts per day) so I don't know what happened. I am CERTAIN it cannot be good.

Try and enjoy as a one-off or on a very occasional basis, but if you get into this then it's got the worst part of crack & the worst part of H addiction all in one!
Do you happen to know where I can find this from Underide ?

borohydride
01-05-2013, 05:18 AM
Do you happen to know where I can find this from Underide ?

About 5 posts up.... you DID bother to read this whole thread? Lots of people did improve my initial idea. No accusing, just asking.

As for adding water - NO, WRONG. Freeze out thickening agent. Underide did it best & Michaels 'ghetto buchner' is cool. Follow those 2 and it's a win...

Oh, and quzyke's commentary is also fantastic....


see how between us we are stronger than by ourselves?

Unbalanced
01-05-2013, 06:55 PM
About 5 posts up.... you DID bother to read this whole thread? Lots of people did improve my initial idea. No accusing, just asking.

As for adding water - NO, WRONG. Freeze out thickening agent. Underide did it best & Michaels 'ghetto buchner' is cool. Follow those 2 and it's a win...

Oh, and quzyke's commentary is also fantastic....


see how between us we are stronger than by ourselves?
Thank you for your reply man. My bad and my ignorance! I had read the posts and they are great too.

From what I can understand from what I read is that I need to keep re-heating and cooling down the solution until solids or crystals start to form.
Last time I got no solid particles what so ever just ~10ml of what looked like milk.. but I only heated it up once and then let cool to room temperature and then put into freezing for a good while (not so it froze though)
And then dismissed the sample because it were still white milk.

May I ask for your opinion because you seem to have the knowledge and know how.
My Methadone contains natriumcitrat/sodium citrate, saccharin sodium & Methyl parahydroxybenzoate (which is a preservative)
- Are anyone of those something I need to get rid of via freezing it before I can get to the freebase ?
- And lastly my done also contains 2,4% alcohol is this a bad thing in this process ?

I bet a lot of people hassle you with tons of questions and im no better right now.
But thank you for your awesome help!

Matt M
01-05-2013, 08:17 PM
I have about 2 grams of the 40 mg orange wafers that is just extra that I have saved. I think ill try this out. Is methadone very soluable in cold water so I can get out as many of the binders as possible?

borohydride
01-06-2013, 12:01 AM
From what I can understand from what I read is that I need to keep re-heating and cooling down the solution until solids or crystals start to form.
But thank you for your awesome help!

No, it melts them but they re-form into begger (easier to filter) crystals....

Matt M
01-06-2013, 05:03 PM
Where do you guys get your pearls of lye? Do you buy the foodgrade stuff or just get some at a hardware store?

Michael.
01-06-2013, 05:52 PM
They don't come as pearls of lye. Lye is just a base and can be substituted. Pearls as in drops.

Matt M
01-06-2013, 07:30 PM
Oh ok I didn't know if it was something special that made it different from plain lye. Thanks.

Unbalanced
01-06-2013, 08:50 PM
No, it melts them but they re-form into begger (easier to filter) crystals....
OK I see.
I added 4-5 pearls of Lye to ~10ml of my 5mg/ml Methadone, it didn't go milky by itself I had to mix it well and THEN
it turned into this milk. Maybe I used to little Lye, what you guys wrote the solution seemed to get cloudy without shaking/stirring.
A picture:
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q418/printscreen011/Milky.jpg

Obviously I can't see any crystals or solids at all so I don't know what there is to filter through the coffee filter.
I will try and re-heat in the attempt to make them appear or bigger so there is something to catch in the filter!
I just hope the Ethanol additive wont mess with the process.

borohydride
01-06-2013, 10:02 PM
I just hope the Ethanol additive wont mess with the process.

Yes, it will...

Unbalanced
01-06-2013, 10:10 PM
Yes, it will...
So that is why my attempt didn't work... thanks now I don't have to waste juice for nothing.

makita
01-06-2013, 11:38 PM
And my second question is to a post Borohydride you made in the beginning of the thread;

http://forum.opiophile.org/images/Eloquent/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by borohydride http://forum.opiophile.org/images/Eloquent/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=644632#post644632)
With pills, just do the 'Woody/Boro™' pill-smoking TEK. Crush, add little baking soda, dry, smoke. It works for most any alkaloid as long as the BP of the freebase is low(ish). Pills are far easier, in fact. A 2 minute job...


So just crush the methadone pills, mix with baking soda and add a little (water?) and let it dry and smoke?

Thanks in advance

boro could you answer this part too? It seemed like there was a step missing, can you do this regardless of inactive ingredients in the pill (not complicated ER pills, mine just has magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and starch in it)? Do you just dry the powder after adding baking soda--no need to filter?

The problem I'm seeing with this is the pills are like 10mg so it would take 5-10 of them to get a good hit, and they're on the largish side. Thats a lot of powder on the foil.

dizzle
01-08-2013, 11:49 AM
boro could you answer this part too? It seemed like there was a step missing, can you do this regardless of inactive ingredients in the pill (not complicated ER pills, mine just has magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and starch in it)? Do you just dry the powder after adding baking soda--no need to filter?

The problem I'm seeing with this is the pills are like 10mg so it would take 5-10 of them to get a good hit, and they're on the largish side. Thats a lot of powder on the foil.

I'm not boro, but I feel like I can answer this in his place as he has quite a bit happening right now.

Crush up the pills, as many as you want. fuck you could do 50 if you wanted! No, really though, don't do 50, you'd die.

Ok so now you have an ENORMOUS mound of pill powder. I know those bitches are big with a lotta bullshit.

Here's the beauty, add water. doesn't have to be hot or cold. room temp tap water (I'd use DI or distilled) but tap should work ok for this.

THEN you will shake that bitch up really good. I mean use a ball mason jar and cap it, shake the F**k out of it. I'd use a minimim of 5mL H2O for every 10mg methadone. (yes I know the solubility is far, far greater than this but there is SOO much ficking pill material to saturate with H2O, you'll understand when you see it, trust me)

Now, here's the part that seperates the kitchen chemists from the meth cooks. GET A BUCHNER FUNNEL and some quantitative filters (not a coffee filter over a sprite bottle, folks) and an aspirator. I use a hand pump with a vinyl tube hooked to my funnelling flask.

Get all your water out, that's where the goodies are since Methadone HCl is quite soluble in water. The other bullshit IS NOT water soluble, well, not enough to make a significant difference, at least. You should have gone from a milky looking solution to a somewhat clear one. Filter again if it isn't clear.

Now, after you are sure your filter cake (the shit you've got left on the filter, the "insolubles" so to speak) nice and dry, remove your funnel and add SLOWLY, I mean SLOWLY, add baking soda or NaOH or Sodium Carb, whatever base you have around.

DIZZLE NOTE: I personally like to mix up a separate aqueous solution with it (base of choice) and filter and and double filter through carbon or diatomaceous earth (Celite) and then assure there are no other things that could've made their way into my base aqueous solution, but, I'm a bit qualitative, so I go overboard.

You;ll see after you drop the first drop of base into your methadone solution, it'll base out and then probably re-dissolve back in. this will occur slower and slower until you reach the isoelectric point, where it has a net zero charge. Then you'll have another milkly looking solution. except this time the goodies have dropped out of the water.

Now you pour your solution over a pyrex pan and let dry. Don't rush it. Leave it for a day or so with a fan over it. You'll come back to a nice smokable product.

Hope Boro is ok with me answering in his place. I really mean nothing by it. Just adding my 2 cents to the process.

borohydride
01-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Do what Dizzle says - he's right.... I think I'm about to get dethroned as the chem guy ;-)

jmorri2nd
01-08-2013, 12:17 PM
Thanks to all for the great info

dizzle
01-08-2013, 02:47 PM
.... I think I'm about to get dethroned as the chem guy ;-)

NEVER!! I wouldn't actually have answered this at all since it was your initial discovery and then you were specifically named in the question, but I saw two days go by and you had not answered. I figured you were busy with your personal life and therefore I, as gracefully as possible, answered Makita while trying to maintain the "hierarchy" as it were.

Boro, I really enjoy our chatting and hope you realizae how much you mean to this community and me personally. I have come to really enjoy your wit and knowledge. I say this out of no prompting from others and it is in no way an attempt to make you do or not do certain things. I mean every word and hope you know that.

Unbalanced
01-08-2013, 03:54 PM
Here's the beauty, add water. doesn't have to be hot or cold. room temp tap water (I'd use DI or distilled) but tap should work ok for this.

THEN you will shake that bitch up really good. I mean use a ball mason jar and cap it, shake the F**k out of it. I'd use a minimim of 5mL H2O for every 10mg methadone. (yes I know the solubility is far, far greater than this but there is SOO much ficking pill material to saturate with H2O, you'll understand when you see it, trust me)

Great post man!

Got a question if you might have a clue.
So lets say I have 10 10mg Methadone tabs = 50ml water with 100mg Methadone dissolved in it.
How long would it take for the water to evaporate?
(If left out in room temperature which is around 20C / 68F and with a desk fan blowing at it)

Would it be possible to boil off the water or will the methadone be evaporated in the process?

It would be nice to see the whole process captured with video or photos. I don't know about possible self-incrimination though.

Matt M
01-08-2013, 04:03 PM
I'm not boro, but I feel like I can answer this in his place as he has quite a bit happening right now.

Crush up the pills, as many as you want. fuck you could do 50 if you wanted! No, really though, don't do 50, you'd die.

Ok so now you have an ENORMOUS mound of pill powder. I know those bitches are big with a lotta bullshit.

Here's the beauty, add water. doesn't have to be hot or cold. room temp tap water (I'd use DI or distilled) but tap should work ok for this.

THEN you will shake that bitch up really good. I mean use a ball mason jar and cap it, shake the F**k out of it. I'd use a minimim of 5mL H2O for every 10mg methadone. (yes I know the solubility is far, far greater than this but there is SOO much ficking pill material to saturate with H2O, you'll understand when you see it, trust me)

Now, here's the part that seperates the kitchen chemists from the meth cooks. GET A BUCHNER FUNNEL and some quantitative filters (not a coffee filter over a sprite bottle, folks) and an aspirator. I use a hand pump with a vinyl tube hooked to my funnelling flask.

Get all your water out, that's where the goodies are since Methadone HCl is quite soluble in water. The other bullshit IS NOT water soluble, well, not enough to make a significant difference, at least. You should have gone from a milky looking solution to a somewhat clear one. Filter again if it isn't clear.

Now, after you are sure your filter cake (the shit you've got left on the filter, the "insolubles" so to speak) nice and dry, remove your funnel and add SLOWLY, I mean SLOWLY, add baking soda or NaOH or Sodium Carb, whatever base you have around.

DIZZLE NOTE: I personally like to mix up a separate aqueous solution with it (base of choice) and filter and and double filter through carbon or diatomaceous earth (Celite) and then assure there are no other things that could've made their way into my base aqueous solution, but, I'm a bit qualitative, so I go overboard.

You;ll see after you drop the first drop of base into your methadone solution, it'll base out and then probably re-dissolve back in. this will occur slower and slower until you reach the isoelectric point, where it has a net zero charge. Then you'll have another milkly looking solution. except this time the goodies have dropped out of the water.

Now you pour your solution over a pyrex pan and let dry. Don't rush it. Leave it for a day or so with a fan over it. You'll come back to a nice smokable product.

Hope Boro is ok with me answering in his place. I really mean nothing by it. Just adding my 2 cents to the process.
Thank you. That is extremely easy. Will give it a go soon. Too bad I have class tonight.

Count Zero
01-08-2013, 04:07 PM
When I got off the klinik I swore I was never going to do done again, this thread is making me seriously reconsider that.

dizzle
01-09-2013, 02:12 PM
Would it be possible to boil off the water or will the methadone be evaporated in the process?

I wouldn't to this!! What'll happen is you will liquify the methadone (M.P. is 99 degrees) and as the H2O evaps, you'll eventually be left with a gooey layer of goop. no, definetly just leave the water to dry at room temp.

as for how long that'll take, well, here we go: water evaporation rates are calculated many different ways and there are rough approximations, but for sake of ease, lets keep it to algebraic equations and leave the calculus for another lesson.

((Pw-Pa)*(0.089 + (0.0782*V)))/Y= (rate) in units of kg/s/m^2,

Where:
Pw= Vapor Pressure of water at room temp (in kPa)
Pa= Pressure of vapor in Air in room at current temp (in kPa)
V= Velocity of the air over the water (in m/s)
Y= Latent heat of vaporization of water (for water it is almost ALWAYS 2272 kJ/kg)

Now, lets say the room temp is 25 degrees, and 50% Humidity, and the fan is 5 m/s.

Now
Pw= 3.17 kPa
Pa= 1.585 kPa (multiplying humidity by Pw)
V= 4 m/s
Y= 2272 kJ/kg

So solve and get .000199 kg/s/m2

Now, you've got your answer, as soon as you figure out your surface area of your drying dish. For ease, lets use a 10" x 4" baking dish.

surface area is .0258 cubic meters. if you have 50 mL of water it'll be .050 kg since h2O density is 1g/mL.

solve for seconds and I came up with 9,738 seconds. so about 2.7 hours.

These used a lot of assumptions and therefore you'd have to come up with your own numbers for temp and humidity and surface area. but, you get the idea.......

40mgtoFreedom
01-09-2013, 03:06 PM
you sir earn extra credit points on the math!! ive evaporated a bottle 110mgs/11ml. the result was pink powder goeey at first but i left it out overnight and it ended up losing all its moisture and i could scrape with a razor for a nice little pile probably about 250mgs with all the other ingredients. come to think of it since i dont have a buchner funnel maybe i could turn this into smokable product??? what would i use in this case, baking soda and water?

borohydride
01-09-2013, 03:11 PM
you sir earn extra credit points on the math!! ive evaporated a bottle 110mgs/11ml. the result was pink powder goeey at first but i left it out overnight and it ended up losing all its moisture and i could scrape with a razor for a nice little pile probably about 250mgs with all the other ingredients. come to think of it since i dont have a buchner funnel maybe i could turn this into smokable product??? what would i use in this case, baking soda and water?

Yes - the man knows his stuff!

If you read how Quzyke did it, that looks like a very good route. If you freeze out thickening agent and wash the freebase in cold water, you can probably get pretty straight methadone suitable for all of your abuse needs. Smoking works a treat but don't forget, your going to get a bigger habit from the stuff your taking to get off your habit.... so fun to try but looks like it could be quite a short path to a sticky end.

Hope it all works for you - for further problems, I refer you to my colleague Dizzle.

40mgtoFreedom
01-09-2013, 03:14 PM
ok Dizzle if you please! so evaporating is going to leave me with methadone hcl right? and not too much junk leftover in it... should i just follow the woody/boro TEK as if i was using pills? Really just looking for a buchner filter work around for the moment.

borohydride
01-09-2013, 03:24 PM
ok Dizzle if you please! so evaporating is going to leave me with methadone hcl right? and not too much junk leftover in it... should i just follow the woody/boro TEK as if i was using pills? Really just looking for a buchner filter work around for the moment.

eBay has plenty of Buchner funnels. You also want a side-arm flask and an aspirator or other vacuum source (hand pump is fine, this isn't frac-distil here).

40mgtoFreedom
01-09-2013, 03:30 PM
i know they do its not an option for me right now.

gtk4
01-09-2013, 03:34 PM
ive this whole thread and i have one question. Bleach has a very high ph. would using a small amount of bleach in place of the lye be dangerous or ineffective?

borohydride
01-09-2013, 03:39 PM
ive this whole thread and i have one question. Bleach has a very high ph. would using a small amount of bleach in place of the lye be dangerous or ineffective?

Bleach is caustic soda with chlorine dissolved into it making sodium hypochlorite. I don't know what that would even do to the methadone, but I would recommend Quzyke's ammonia alternative...

We really should write this all up into a proper document....

dizzle
01-09-2013, 03:57 PM
why not use baking soda? I mean, it would def be safer than using NaOCl. Plus the baking soda/water sort of acts like a buffer solution, well not exactl a buffer, but you can only get the pH SO high with a NaCO3 solution. That's what I'd do.......

gtk4
01-09-2013, 04:03 PM
ill just wait a day or 2, get the lye, and do the proven method. My bleach is only 6% Sodium Hypochlorite. I doubt it would be strong enough to get good results. I'll let you all know how it went.

borohydride
01-09-2013, 04:03 PM
The pKa of methadone is only 9.1 and at 11.7 it's ALL freebase (see Marvin) so if someone would like to calculate how much baking soda is needed ;-)

40mgtoFreedom
01-09-2013, 04:32 PM
in underrides write up he uses lye and baking soda...

underide
01-12-2013, 03:39 PM
in underrides write up he uses lye and baking soda...

There's actually no need for baking soda in that write up at all..
The pinch of baking soda i added that time was more of a 'gauge' of sorts..(don't even ask me what for exactly..i was being a total amateur anyway).
It did work perfectly well though, and didn't harm the process. (not that that it was *necessary* in the first place)
I followed Boro's tech to a T and with it noticed that Chopstix was actually also onto something here when he mentioned extending the cooling periods in between heating, which actually seemed to make a lot of difference that second time i attempted it.

borohydride
01-12-2013, 03:52 PM
Well ladies and gentlemen - I would like to share this moment with you guys who aren't chemists and yet have perfected a classic Fractional crystallization, one of the cornerstones of process chemistry. Safe, reliable, repeatable and economical.

Satisfying feeling isn't it.

Michael.
01-12-2013, 03:54 PM
you sir earn extra credit points on the math!! ive evaporated a bottle 110mgs/11ml. the result was pink powder goeey at first but i left it out overnight and it ended up losing all its moisture and i could scrape with a razor for a nice little pile probably about 250mgs with all the other ingredients. come to think of it since i dont have a buchner funnel maybe i could turn this into smokable product??? what would i use in this case, baking soda and water?

If you don't have a buchner, You can rig up one in a pinch. Even the guys around here who are doing large multi gram cooks several times a day for profit to make #3 usually use a variation of the ghetto buchner I posted instructions on. If you swapped the coffee filter for something finer, I don't see how it'd be too much different really. Mind you, I'm not qualified to make that decision.


Well ladies and gentlemen - I would like to share this moment with you guys who aren't chemists and yet have perfected a classic Fractional crystallization, one of the cornerstones of process chemistry. Safe, reliable, repeatable and economical.

Satisfying feeling isn't it.

Aside from doing the friction trick with a glass or wooden rod trick, do you have any other tips to ensure the crystals form large enough not to just pass through?

borohydride
01-13-2013, 09:39 PM
Aside from doing the friction trick with a glass or wooden rod trick, do you have any other tips to ensure the crystals form large enough not to just pass through?

The microwave & cooling (I believe Chopstix perfected this bit) will form bigger crystals. It's mainly because it's only 1mg/ml (for most people).

Unbalanced
01-14-2013, 09:10 PM
solve for seconds and I came up with 9,738 seconds. so about 2.7 hours.

These used a lot of assumptions and therefore you'd have to come up with your own numbers for temp and humidity and surface area. but, you get the idea.......
Wow, thanks a lot man! That is some awesome math.

@Michael:
Using your method, wouldn't it be possible to just use your lungs and blow air through the bottle with the solution in it to force it through the filter instead of using a syringe?

And why can't one use coffee filters instead of filterpapers? What is the downside by not having real filterpaper.

Thanks!

zystyl
04-23-2013, 10:25 AM
OK, big bump here. Feel free to troll me at will. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

I have some sodium carbonate that I use to make soap and detergent for my household, and as a base in some minor little experiments I do with the kids. I'm pretty experienced with the same kinds of techniques that you need to make this successful. I just don't know the chemistry that goes on behind the scenes. I approach it like a cooking recipe, and I'm a hell of a cook.

Would the sodium carbonate be strong enough to base out the methadone from the solution? If I have, let's say, 250ish mg of methadone in 100ml of solution then around how much NA2CO3 should I be adding to make sure it works optimally? Should I be adding some water before doing this, or would it work fine as is?

If this isn't a suitable base then I will grab some sodium hydroxide as reccomended. I'll probably knock out a ghetto buckner a la michael's tek as suggested.

Any advice, or ideas if the sodium carbonate will work?

chopstix
04-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Sodium carbonate should work a peach..

Hard to say how much you'll need, do you have access to litmus paper or a PH meter? I believe Dizzle said he nabbed a PH meter for a few bux on (I think) Amazon.. A few meaning <$10. I found litmus at a health food store, they sell it to measure the PH of your piss, for some reason..

edit: man I'm a space cadet today, I'd forgotten how easy it was to base the MD: once dissolved in water, simply adding drops of a pre-mixed basic solution (I used lye, but s. carbonate should be fine) a little at a time quickly turned the whole solution cloudy with micro crystals of the base. A very easy process, just add the base solution a drop at a time until it clouds up..

zystyl
04-24-2013, 07:06 PM
I do have litmus paper. It sounds like the actual PH isn`t a big deal, or should I be aiming to get the PH up to 10.5? I say 10.5 since it looks like that is the PH of sodium carbonate solution if it's strong enough.

At worst I can just guess probably. Make up a strong solution until I can't get anymore sodium carbonate into solution, then add dropwise to decanted methadone until the juice turns cloudy. If anyone has some more specific quantities it might be helpful. The tek sounds easy enough that I should be ok with that. I'll give it a try later in the week, and I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks for the advice Chopstix!

chopstix
04-24-2013, 08:37 PM
The Pka of MD is like 8.25 (I see that from multiple sources, not sure where boro got 9.whatever), so PH 10ish should be fine. Sodium carbonate is about ph11.7

Again it's very easy, I might PH test the pre-mixed carbonate solution, and then just add that dropwise to the MD solution until it clouds up, and then add several more drops to be sure. S. carbonate won't jack the PH WAY up like lye will..

dizzle
04-25-2013, 04:46 PM
OK. I'm pissed cuz I had a great reply all typed up and then I accidently hit the hotkey for the browsers back button. Boo......

anyway, here's the sitch:

assuming 100% dissolution (ie, the molecule will break into its + and - when in liquid) you can go this way

Methd HCl + Na2(CO3) -------> Methd + NaCl + CO2 + H2O

now balance the equation, and get....... 2 moles of methadone HCl for every 1 of Na2(CO3) {sodium carbonate, fyi, not BAKING SODA, which is bicarbonate}


lets do math now:

150mg Methd HCl * [1mol Methd HCl / 345.89 mg] * [1mol Na2(CO3)/ 2mol Methd HCl] * [105.98 mg / 1 mol Na2(CO3)] = 23mg Na2(CO3)



and since it is a strong base, you can assume 100% dissolution and I believe methadone HCl is the same way. That would be for 150mg of methadone HCl.


I'd like to add a note about pH regarding the above posts, I think it should be pointed out the pH is simply the number of [H+] or [OH-] ions present in a certain amount of liquid.

pH is dependant on two things, number of ions present, and amount of solvent. So, if you have a pH of 5.0 and you have 10 mL of water, you can figure how much methadone is present. since pH= -log[H+] and methadone is in HCl form, you can be sure (as long as nothing else is in there) that for every H+, there is a methadone attached.

Great, dizzle, now what does this mean to me? Well, I'm glad you asked, I'll tell you:

IF you could actually get the ingredients of the methadone and be certain of the pH, you could tell if what you're getting is watered down, you could tell how much is in a given amount, there's lots you could do. you could go and base it and smoke it, like BH4+ said, you could resalt it and make a more concentrated solution so you don't have to drink as much. Hell, if you wanted, I guess you could experiment with different salts, and see if they form, like tartrate, acetate, citrate....... on and on.

The only thing is, stay within the organic acids, like those I just mentioned, if you're going to be fucking around, certainly DO NOT, fuck around with strong acids, like HBr HNO3 and etc unless you know your shit.

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 07:56 AM
Well, I'm giving this procedure another go today. my problem is getting my based out cloudy methadone solution to crystalize and/or just become big enough to catch in a filter. I've tried letting it sit for days, heating and cooling and magic words. This time i'm going to use lye with water to create a lye solution until no more lye will disolve in the water; i will then add to the 10mg/ml drop by drop until it becomes cloudy (will probably take 1 or 2 drops) I will also try the method of using a glass or wood rod between your hands to "stir" the result of this (as i've seen/heard tell in the various NZ homebake lab notes i can never get enough of! fascinating stuff :D, anyway) If the rod method doesnt work i will use or maybe a combination of both the heating cooling technique in microwave. Dizzle or Chopstix if you could maybe give me some thoughts, also if anyone has successfully done this i would appreciate precise directions because this is not a difficult process, but for some reason it is giving me a lot of trouble.

Perhaps if this doesn't work i will try using exact ph measurements. Any help/comments appreciated!

cheers!

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 10:03 AM
heated and cooled for last hour, also tried the friction stir. results are just a foggy solution still no way to filter. maybe i'll just soak tobacco in it or some potpourri and make DoneSPice(tm) Just gonna let this sit indefinitely i suppose.
o
Update- Sooooo after doing the friction stir earlier and letting it sit, there is a thin layer of what i want floating on the top of my solution, this is nothing new, still trying to get this to crystalize to become big enough to be caught in a filter. i may just use one of these terumo syringes as a pipette and suck all the shit i dont want up from the bottom leaving a top layer that will still be really wet. ARGGGH i want this to work like gassing dope with HCL gas and watching it snow.

chopstix
04-29-2013, 10:56 AM
When heating and cooling: when the solution is hot, spin it, then put it back somewhere warmish - the idea is you want the warm, gooey crystals to make contact with other warm, gooey crystals and make bigger crystals. They key to making large xtals in cases like this, is VERY slow cooling of the solution; and also agitating/spinning the solution while it's warm.

So warm it up, spin it, place it back in the microwave or wherever and let it SLOWLY cool down to room temp, then place in the fridge and let it slowly cool some more; rinse and repeat multiple times and you should notice the xtals getting bigger. When you go to do the final filtration, make sure the solution is nice and cold.

The heat cycling took me hours to get a noticeable increase in xtal size. The better your filter paper (finer), the less you'll need to do this..

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 11:19 AM
thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. i was heating then immediately putting in freezer, thank you for explaining. also i was expecting this to maybe take an hour so its encouraging to hear that it took hours to do (if that makes sense) just want to clarify one more thing. after heating and letting slowly cool to room temperature, do i then want to cool it further in fridge... or even the freezer? sounds like most of the magic happens when its hot and gooey.... if you could just clear that last part up i think i'll be golden!

chopstix
04-29-2013, 11:48 AM
I'd put it in the fridge and slowly (use the top shelf) bring it down to maybe 40F, then start over.

zystyl
04-29-2013, 12:12 PM
I did this twice. The first time I heated the hell out of it, and then just left it on the counter to cool. I did it a couple times, but I don't remember. This is definitely the crucial step, but silly me didn't realize that. It didn't seem to really form any bigger crystals. After I filtered there were a few salt grain sized crystals on the paper, and there must have been some in the filter paper itself (coffee filter). I neutralized the solution with vinegar, and it seemed to have almost all the methadone inside the solution still. Yummy sodium acetate salt and vinegar methadone.

I tried it again, but this time I didn't heat it up as hot and I swirled the bottle gently for a minute or so before I set it aside to cool. I did a good 10 heat cool cycles letting it cool down to room temp. When I filtered I got more crystals. I got a fair sized hit out of it, but most of the methadone stayed in solution it seemed.

If I do this again I will get some nicer filter paper. Coffee filters are too porous and rough I think. I was also going to try chilling the solution to 2 celsius or so. I was hoping that would make the filtering easier. You can see it kind of gloops onto the filter paper.

Looks like chopsticks came to the same conclusion.

My biggest fear was that I would waste the methadone. Not really a concern when you can neutralize your based solution. I drank the solutions afterwards and there definitely seemed to be something left. I feel like I'm missing some crucial step, but overall this went fairly well. The ghetto buchner is great. I kept it handy afterwards. There are a lot of places I could see it coming in handy with some of the stuff I do.

I might try it with lye another time, but the sodium carbonate definitely made the solution cloudy so I assume it precipitated out the methadone. I saturated a solution with close to 50g sodium carbonate, and then added it dropwise to the methadone. It was very clear when it went cloudy. 2 clear fluids, and then suddenly the juice goes white and cloudy.

To be honest I'm a little glad I couldn't do it easily. THe one hit I got was fairly satisfying. If I got so that I could do this in my sleep I could see going through a weeks worth of juice in a day or 2. Goodbye maintenance if that happens. I'm going to stay away I think. I satisfied my urge to try, but I can see the downward spiral right in front of me.

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 01:02 PM
i definitely hear you on the maintenance thing... but i already go through it fast anyway my logic is if smoking it is more satisfying then i can make it last longer... i can catch a good nod on methadone but it comes at the => 500mg mark for me, was hoping that smoking would cut down on that. Im no chemist but ive dabbled in things and i think your sodium carbonate is fine... ive gotten the same results with ammonia myself, at least i think (cloudy solution). i should probably invest in filter paper and a real buchner funnel... but the whole point is i want to know how good smoking works..... catch 22... just wanna try a decent hit to see if i want to take it further. Thank you both for your input... at this point if i just evaporate my solution i should be left with freebase correct? at least something i can smoke to determine whether its worth it? this should be the last question on this matter.

zystyl
04-29-2013, 01:11 PM
I think all of the sugar would stay in the solution too. I bet you get a syrupy mess. I've dehydrated a bottle of methadone by accident, and it turned into a jelly like substance. It was even hard enough that you could mold it into a ball. You get methadose right? It basically goes back to the syrup form when you get most of the water out of it.

I imagine you could smoke all of the sugars along with it. Burning sugar wouldn't be so good for you, but it's not like smoking methadone is the best either.

chopstix
04-29-2013, 01:38 PM
slowly bringit close to freezing and the sugar should crystallize.

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 02:44 PM
its coming along slowly but surely.... yes ive evaporated before but was left with methadone hcl of course... if you evaporate after basing it should be effective to smoke is the theory i had. thank you both for your help.... yes it is being much more productive than before.... i'll post again if/when i do the deed.

chopstix
04-29-2013, 05:24 PM
If u evap, rinse off before smoking (you should do this anyway).

40mgtoFreedom
04-29-2013, 05:34 PM
what should i rinse with ?

chopstix
04-29-2013, 05:51 PM
water is probably best..

zystyl
04-29-2013, 05:53 PM
You should be able to wash it with water. The freebase methadone won't dissolve so you can rinse then filter. If you want to stick with evap then you could add water, and then carefully remove most from the top with a pipette or eye dropper or something. You would evap again after and it would be just the methadone remaining. Best idea would probably to add water and take off the excess a couple of times before you evap it.

If you can get some nice filter paper I think that would work best with the ghetto buchner.

Matt M
04-29-2013, 07:17 PM
I have yet to try this and it should be super easy for me since I have the wafers. Don't have to deal with the syrup.

dizzle
04-30-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm late to this party it seems.

but if I can give anyone any advice on this, use a real buchner funnel with filtering flask, and I use a hand pump so I can control the amount of suction I get through the filter. Oh, and for filters, use real filters, I've got 2 kinds, quantitative filter paper by Lab Nerd, and then Microcrystaline glass filters, that I use when I want to retain the filtered particulate, ie something like this.

We've got a process here that is using the properties of the molecule to drop it out of a polar protic solution. Methadone is not a zwiteerion like morphine type drugs, so it can drop out just by adding a base. Methadone base is a molecule that essentially carries no charge. There are no extra electrons on this molecule, nor are there a lack of electrons. So, in a polar protic solution, the nonpolar molecules essentially run like hell. this is why they drop out. However, when it is in the salted form, as in Methadone HCl, there is an extra H+ group bonded to the amine group. This attracts the Cl- in solution and now we've got a charged molecule. That is why salts are USUALLY soluble in water. Water is charged, molecule is charged, like dissolves like, hooraay!!!



Where was I going there? I dunno. Basically, I'm trying to break it down so people can understand WTF is going on when you drop this shit in solution. For example, you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to "keep dissolving NaOH into it until no more dissolves" that is a TERRIBLE idea. You'll jack the pH and get a very dangerous solution. Yikes, seriously.

Once you jack the pH, you've made all the methadone molecules loose they're H+ to the OH-, and the extra Cl- will bond with the Na+. At this point, where there is exactly the same amount, this is the equalivance point. Or there's no extra OH- or H+ in solution. This doesn't exactly insure you've got all your goodies all the time, because there's things as weak bases and acids, that takes time to dissociate, so it won't just go "POOF" like cocaine or methadone, and all go at once. A good example is dihydrocodeine Tartrate, it takes about a day to dissociate properly. This is evident with a pH meter, the pH will jump form 13 to 9 over that day, adding heat encourages dissociation as well. fyi.


fuck, I'm totally ripped, and rambling. I don't know if this makes sense, but ask me if you don't understand, I'm happy to explain. and please, please please please, DO NOT keep adding base until no more dissolves, that is a scary idea. That end solution will likely burn a hole in your skin and quite possibly destroy your methadone.......

zystyl
04-30-2013, 10:49 AM
Where was I going there? I dunno. Basically, I'm trying to break it down so people can understand WTF is going on when you drop this shit in solution. For example, you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to "keep dissolving NaOH into it until no more dissolves" that is a TERRIBLE idea. You'll jack the pH and get a very dangerous solution. Yikes, seriously.


Just to be clear I made a solution with the NaOH and then added that solution dropwise to the methadone until it went cloudy using a pipette. Would it have been better to add the NaOH powder straight to the methadone?

Edit: It doesn't really matter actually. I won't be doing this again anyways. It's more curiosity then anything at this point.

dizzle
04-30-2013, 11:36 AM
doesn't make a difference really. you can do it either way since the NaOH will immediately totally dissociate anyway, the main advantage would be if you were using a weak acid/base to acidify/basify, you could make up your solution in advance, and heat it and make sure it was totally dissociated when you drop in to the methadone solution.

As for the misread part, my bad, I didn't read it clearly enough obviously. Sorry. I just thought I read one thing, and was like "NOOOOO!!!!!!".



As for the process, hell, I have all the glassware and chems I could need at home (well, not HOME, but close-by enough to make it easily accessible) and I usually don't bother fucking around with it, I almost always just drink the shit.......

chopstix
04-30-2013, 12:16 PM
doesn't make a difference really. you can do it either way since the NaOH will immediately totally dissociate anyway, the main advantage would be if you were using a weak acid/base to acidify/basify, you could make up your solution in advance, and heat it and make sure it was totally dissociated when you drop in to the methadone solution.

This is exactly what I (normally) do; make the alkaline solution before hand and then drip it in to the solvent im working with. With lye, it's really only takes a tiny bit, few crystals really..

Sodium carbonate, I dunno, I'm not that experienced with it..

dizzle
04-30-2013, 01:10 PM
I had to learn how all this shit works. When I had first tried to base out DHC from DHC tartrate, I couldn't understand why it wasn't working.


I read, and read, and read until I figured it all out. There's a lot going on chemically when you a/b something and then either pull it, or filter, or evap. I really was going bonkers trying to figure it out. Boro wasn't skilled enough to explain it to me, or just wouldn't. Robo was locked up, I searched and searched. I found a dude that goes by the name of "beaker" on zoklet.org who helped a lot, but I feel like he was one of boro's alter egos or someone with similiar, ummm, character traits, if you know what I mean..............



anyway, I don't know much, but I certainly know a/b's and extractions well, rextals, structures, and basic shit pretty well now.


Next it's dipole moments, sp2/sp3 hybridizations, and mechanisms for your main orgo reactions. I envy how Robo can just picture molecules and move them around and predict how they will behave, in his head. I've got to write the shit out like a 5th grader and draw the electrons moving around.......I'm lame i know.

chopstix
04-30-2013, 01:52 PM
^^ Boro is well known for adopting alternet 3g0s ('zachery wuts hes did 2 jonnym)

fwiw anyway..

carol01
05-01-2013, 05:37 AM
I found a dude that goes by the name of "beaker" on zoklet.org who helped a lot, but I feel like he was one of boro's alter egos or someone with similiar, ummm, character traits, if you know what I mean..............

It probably was him. He likes to match himself to THE MUPPET character, 'Beaker'. He's used that as a user name in the past.............You're feeling was most likely correct Diz.

Lu_cid
05-01-2013, 10:38 PM
I hope I'm not being redundant here, but has anyone successfully done this with the cherry red shit the the states or did i just miss that post somewhere? I have precious little of left that ive saved over the weeks and would love a way to stretch it a bit considering that tomorrow is my last day at the clinic.

40mgtoFreedom
05-02-2013, 07:53 AM
thats what ive been using

dizzle
05-02-2013, 09:36 AM
hey 40mg's to freedom.....

were you a member of this forum way back in the day? I rememeber someone else that had that same crazy looking nurse chick swallowing pills in their sig.....

also, if you're using the cherry shit, i'd have to see the ingredeints, I am doing this with straight m HCl and water I think......

40mgtoFreedom
05-02-2013, 09:45 AM
no i saw that though, the picture is from a nofx album, pump up the valuim.

ill find an ingrediants list by next week ive already gone thru all my done for this one. i ended up exploding some of it in the microwave :(

zystyl
05-02-2013, 09:54 AM
i ended up exploding some of it in the microwave :(

That sounds like one of those things you see in slow motion, and feel deep down in your junkie bones. Drug abuse is a crime you know 40mg.

Here's a cut and paste of the cherry methadose ingredients to help out:

Methadose™ Oral Concentrate (methadone hydrochloride oral concentrate) (methadone hydrochloride USP) is supplied as a cherry flavored liquid concentrate. Methadose™ Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate (methadone hydrochloride USP) is a dye-free, sugar-free, unflavored liquid concentrate of methadone hydrochloride. Each liquid concentrate contains 10 mg of methadone hydrochloride per mL.

Methadone hydrochloride is chemically described as 3-heptanone, 6- (dimethylamino)-4, 4-diphenyl-, hydrochloride. Methadone hydrochloride is a white, essentially odorless, bitter-tasting crystalline powder. It is very soluble in water, soluble in isopropanol and in chloroform, and practically insoluble in ether and in glycerine. It is present in Methadose as the racemic mixture. Methadone hydrochloride has a melting point of 235C, a pKa of 8.25 in water at 20C, a solution (1 part per 100) pH between 4.5 and 6.5, a partition coefficient of 117 at pH 7.4 in octanol/water and a molecular weight of 345.91. Its molecular formula is C21H27NO•HCl and its structural formula is:


Other ingredients of Methadose Oral Concentrate (methadone hydrochloride oral concentrate) : Artificial cherry flavor, citric acid anhydrous USP, FD&C Red No 40, D&C Red No 33, methylparaben NF, polaxamer 407 NF, propylene glycol USP, propylparaben NF, purified water USP, sodium citrate dihydrate USP, sucrose NF.

Other ingredients of Methadose Sugar-Free Oral Concentrate: Citric acid anhydrous USP, purified water USP, sodium benzoate NF.

chopstix
05-02-2013, 12:31 PM
I hope I'm not being redundant here, but has anyone successfully done this with the cherry red shit the the states or did i just miss that post somewhere? I have precious little of left that ive saved over the weeks and would love a way to stretch it a bit considering that tomorrow is my last day at the clinic.

Dilute & chill the solution to near freezing and the bulk of the sugar and crap should settle, then should be able to decant the bulk of the liquid off and leave the flavor & crap behind. Maybe run 2 passes like that, u should get the majority of what's in there.

I've never done this, but it's documented in the thread and makes sense to me..

quzyke
05-02-2013, 06:24 PM
I got the best results by adding ammonia to my methadone (4mg/ml) and letting it just sit at room temperature until I'm left with clear water and white crystals swimming in it, the size of salt/sugar some bigger ones. I then make a bowl out of a large piece of tin foil and make sure there's no hole in it, pour my solution in it and let evaporate until everything has evaporated.

This takes 2 days or so to complete and sounds simplistic I know, but the result is a piece of tinfoil full of crystals which I can smoke easily by just inhaling the smoke through a tube while I hold the flame under the foil. I get big hits with this and just smoke the whole foil over the course of a day and am high as fuck all day long. It may not be the best way but it works with minimal/no loss of methadone. The most important part is making sure the solution doesn't spill from the tin foil bowl due to holes, too small walls etc...

Ammonia is definitely the way to go with making smokeable methadone IMO.

epione
05-03-2013, 07:12 AM
Ah, yes clean ammonia water..whatever,. serious about this and don't want to waste time? Real buchner funnel, vacuum filter flask, faucet vacuum aspirator (or some easy way to create a vacuum), solid tubing and fine filter paper. good to go. real basic shit here. good luck.

dizzle
05-03-2013, 10:17 AM
he's right.

the benefit of ammonia is that it is a gas at room temp, so when the water evaps, so does the ammonia, you don't have to worry about the free NH3 floating around. Now, the Cl from the methadone that broke off WILL form ammonium chloride, but you likely won't have to worry about that as it's used as a food additive and eaten all the time.

dizzle
05-06-2013, 12:41 PM
peeps--



anyone serious about this shit, check out http://www.artistsupplysource.com/home.php?cat=46960 for labware.... great site and prices.

Snoops
05-06-2013, 01:08 PM
peeps--



anyone serious about this shit, check out http://www.artistsupplysource.com/home.php?cat=46960 for labware.... great site and prices.

Perhaps you could point out which of these fine products one would need to get a desirable end result...?

I was having a look around and learned quick style that, "I don't belong here", "I need sum help mayne"

It'd be cool to put together a decent, Smoke My Dose TODAY kit.

dizzle
05-06-2013, 01:37 PM
lol, I gotcha.

I'm at work now, but I'll put sumpin together later...

TCB right now, ya heard me? That's right, I'm taking care of business...

something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKs6y9_d2ps

40mgtoFreedom
05-06-2013, 02:11 PM
:D excellent reference i love Seinfeld... wont let me give you rep points in this thread again so here's a txt rep.

chopstix
05-06-2013, 03:52 PM
With good quality, really fine filter paper and a little practice, I'd be surprised if a dry, smokable product within 15 minutes wasn't relatively easy.

I didn't know ammonia was a gas at room temp. - good to know.. (that's one reason I like HCL, same thing.. If it's dry, it ain't full of acid).

Ok here's a digressionquestion: how to separate pure ammonia from fruity bullshit mixtures? Distillation? I wonder what the BP of ammonia is?? (I'm supposed to be wrenching, not googling shit =/)

40mgtoFreedom
05-06-2013, 05:57 PM
i was walking down the street the other day and found a page out of someones diary. this is what it said:

today i used ammonia instead of lye thats ammonia hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide for you geeks. i found plain ammonia not the lemon scented shit... just plain white ammonia... a few drops and im set.... theres actually a nice layer of methadone freebase, like an oil slick on water which is different than what happened with lye.

no crystallization yet... just said layer, been heating and cooling as much as possible taking care to remove lid when heating so as not to repeat last weeks explosion and subsequent unavoidable case of drug abuse.

not having a buchner, should i seperate layers and keep oily part? with my remaining freebase after explosion last week i soaked a couple cigarettes and smoked and it was intense. let me hear you're thoughts..... i know i should get proper gear but the whole point of this experiment, to me, is getting something useful with the resources i got.

fire away

40mgtoFreedom
05-07-2013, 12:00 AM
ammonia was the way to go, got visible layer of crystals, separated easily, dried and smoked. just had to have it sit for all day. the heat and cool was key along with the time. finally success.

quzyke
05-07-2013, 03:47 AM
Nice one, see epione, I told you ammonia worked! It really does produce good results. I'm glad you finally succeeded 40mgtofreedom!

dizzle
05-07-2013, 09:04 AM
what you're seeing is a layer of methadone freebase, it is suprisingly nonpolar, and therefore will dissolve into a nonpolar layer (ether, toluene, etc) or be clearly different from water, as you've seen.

The reason you got a "layer" is because of the temp of the liquid, if it was hot, or even mildly warm, it'll melt the methadone freebase into liquid form.

you need to put it in the fridge, then freezer to make larger xtals, cold, cold cold!!!! the xtals will form, and then you can leave it at room temp in front of a fan, to just let H2O/NH4+ evap. then you'll be left with PURE methadone freebase.

for those of you without a proper lab setup (ie vaccum filtration, buchner, etc) just put it in tinfoil like dude said, and then you've already got it in your smoking apparatus. come back in a day or so, and you're golden.

if you got the pink shit, IDK what to tell you, you may have to freeze it and then let a little get warm to separate out the sugar and bullshit from the water.

40mgtoFreedom
05-07-2013, 07:32 PM
yeah it came out a lil pink and flavorful, smoking sugar with the done is an acquired taste i suppose but i got most of it out. btw this got me so damn high i have fallen asleep standing up in the middle of various rooms of my house, and actually woke up in the middle of my leg being asleep from sleeping while standing up damn near falling on my face... ive burns numerous holes in these shorts and dropped cigs on my barefeet, feels good to finally get this high after being on done for so long.

chopstix
05-07-2013, 07:40 PM
And this is from how much??

How did it run for you (on the foil)?

nick
05-07-2013, 07:45 PM
Be useful to know how long the high lasts and then how long it takes for you to start getting sick.

epione
05-07-2013, 07:52 PM
Nice one, see epione, I told you ammonia worked! It really does produce good results...<snip>!

thanks, but i know this already. been using a similar tek to clean stuff for years. it has never failed me once. a little (proper) knowledge and practice and you can clean stuff, just about anything suitable for A/B extraction, pretty quick. its not much different than whats in chops sticky.

good luck everybody. remember to stay safe. safety is always #1.

40mgtoFreedom
05-07-2013, 08:30 PM
And this is from how much??

How did it run for you (on the foil)?


110mgs minus whatever i lost in the process. it was a little wet/pink so it ran ok, but the best spots were dry and slowly turned red/brown/black while smoking. i dont think a 100 percent cleaned product would even run that much.
also kept me good and high for just about 24hours still got the rest of the weeks which is an improvement because i usually inject a weeks worth in 2 days. so i think ill be allright nick, i hope. theres always the chance that it jacked my tolerance, but i like i said i usually go thru a weeks worth in a couple days and then eat about 140 lope x2mg each on friday and am fine until pickup time monday morning.

chemboy7
05-07-2013, 08:39 PM
but i like i said i usually go thru a weeks worth in a couple days and then eat about 140 lope x2mg each on friday and am fine until pickup time monday morning.

A bit off topic but for you guys that eat all that lope do you swallow the pills or crush to powder and toss and wash it back? I have trouble swallowing pills sometimes and I'm quite sure if I was downing handfuls of lope (even as small as they are) that before long I'd gag and they'd come right back up. I think if I was maintaining on lope I'd just powder them, add to water and drink it like a shake.

Matt M
05-07-2013, 09:45 PM
110mgs minus whatever i lost in the process. it was a little wet/pink so it ran ok, but the best spots were dry and slowly turned red/brown/black while smoking. i dont think a 100 percent cleaned product would even run that much.
also kept me good and high for just about 24hours still got the rest of the weeks which is an improvement because i usually inject a weeks worth in 2 days. so i think ill be allright nick, i hope. theres always the chance that it jacked my tolerance, but i like i said i usually go thru a weeks worth in a couple days and then eat about 140 lope x2mg each on friday and am fine until pickup time monday morning.
You talked me into doing this this weekend. All I have is baking soda so I will try with that first. I'm starting out with the 40mg orange wafers though so my process should be easy enough.

nick
05-07-2013, 09:53 PM
110mgs minus whatever i lost in the process. it was a little wet/pink so it ran ok, but the best spots were dry and slowly turned red/brown/black while smoking. i dont think a 100 percent cleaned product would even run that much.
also kept me good and high for just about 24hours still got the rest of the weeks which is an improvement because i usually inject a weeks worth in 2 days. so i think ill be allright nick, i hope. theres always the chance that it jacked my tolerance, but i like i said i usually go thru a weeks worth in a couple days and then eat about 140 lope x2mg each on friday and am fine until pickup time monday morning.

Thanks and if you try this over a period of time,let us know how it goes please.

Glad it worked out for you,man.

chopstix
05-07-2013, 11:57 PM
You talked me into doing this this weekend. All I have is baking soda so I will try with that first. I'm starting out with the 40mg orange wafers though so my process should be easy enough.

I'd advise using the BS to make sodium corbonate, and then using that as your base. S. Carbonate is a bit more alkaline and is probably more suitable, and it's not dangerous.

It's very easy to make, google should provide a very easy recipe needing at the most some water with the bicarb, but I think you can make sodium carbonate just by heating it, the only way I've done it was with water tho..

G'luck and report back =)

zystyl
05-08-2013, 12:25 AM
I think it's as easy as put it in the oven to change to sodium carbonate. There are recipes around, but I bought mine as sodium carbonate. Quality filter paper seems to be the magic ingredient.

Did you evap it Finally 40mg? Im curious how that turned out for you.

Seedy
05-08-2013, 12:32 AM
i'm wondering if, when using quzyke's method, do you have to evaporate it at room temp? if one were to do it faster, with a hair dryer, for instance, would that just evap the water and the ammonia, leaving methadone hcl? i think i've just answered my own question.

Snoops
05-08-2013, 12:36 AM
i was walking down the street the other day and found a page out of someones diary. this is what it said:

today i used ammonia instead of lye thats ammonia hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide for you geeks. i found plain ammonia not the lemon scented shit... just plain white ammonia... a few drops and im set.... theres actually a nice layer of methadone freebase, like an oil slick on water which is different than what happened with lye.

no crystallization yet... just said layer, been heating and cooling as much as possible taking care to remove lid when heating so as not to repeat last weeks explosion and subsequent unavoidable case of drug abuse.

not having a buchner, should i seperate layers and keep oily part? with my remaining freebase after explosion last week i soaked a couple cigarettes and smoked and it was intense. let me hear you're thoughts..... i know i should get proper gear but the whole point of this experiment, to me, is getting something useful with the resources i got.

fire away

Did you seriously see this shit blowing around in the street... LOL!!!!!

epione
05-08-2013, 12:43 AM
seedy, i think you are missing a critical step in an A/B extraction - the extraction. or maybe i completey misunderstood what you just said.

dizzle
05-08-2013, 09:50 AM
seedy. you won't have methadone hcl, you'll have methadone base.

that is the whole point of this, to get the HCL to drop out. That lowers the boiling point so it can be heated, turned into a gas, and inhaled. This is taking advantage of all those capillaries in your lungs.

See if you heat regular mthadone hcl, it's bp is so high that you'll destroy the molecule before you turn it into a gas.


also, the easiest way for peeps without the proper setup or chems seems to be:

form a little bowl out of tinfoil
dump methadone in tinfoil bowl
add few drops of NH4+ (ammonia)
leave out to dry, put by breezy window or fan, not too HOT!
come back a day later or whatever
put lighter under and inhale vapors

Seedy
05-08-2013, 03:50 PM
^^ i didn't word it properly, i know the base is what we're after. what i was wondering is can the drying be sped up a bit with heat (say a hair dryer), or would that cause all the ammonia to evaporate, leaving the methadone hcl rather than the base we need.

chopstix
05-08-2013, 03:57 PM
^^ i didn't word it properly, i know the base is what we're after. what i was wondering is can the drying be sped up a bit with heat (say a hair dryer), or would that cause all the ammonia to evaporate, leaving the methadone hcl rather than the base we need.

Drying with a hairdryer will work fine.

Once it's based, unless you hit it with an acid, it will remain FB.

Seedy
05-08-2013, 04:22 PM
sweet that's all i need to know. was thinking that it had to stay cool to stay as crystals.

40mgtoFreedom
05-08-2013, 07:42 PM
A bit off topic but for you guys that eat all that lope do you swallow the pills or crush to powder and toss and wash it back? I have trouble swallowing pills sometimes and I'm quite sure if I was downing handfuls of lope (even as small as they are) that before long I'd gag and they'd come right back up. I think if I was maintaining on lope I'd just powder them, add to water and drink it like a shake.

lol i thought you were underdose for a minute i was wondering why i couldnt vm you, but then i saw mr flibble.... the lope i used are the 2mg blue ones and they're small enough for me so i put about 50 in my hand at once and toss em back and quickly chug some mt dew or orange juice or whatever, but yeah if it hits the taste buds its beginning to become more and more revolting

Matt M
07-14-2013, 01:08 PM
So I tried this but I think something went wrong. It seemed the baking soda didn't want to disolve. At first I tried to mix it with water and that didn't seem to work so I put straight powder in the methadone water. It didn't turn cloudy at all and the baking soda stayed gritty. Maybe the baking soda was bad or something. I still let it dry and put a lighter to it but it didn't seem to want to smoke.

dizzle
07-15-2013, 01:52 PM
baking soda is less than ideal for a number of reasons,

it forms a buffer solution with a range of pH from 7+ to 8.6 or so. Basically, my guess is you didn't spike the pH enough to matter, OR you're right and you've got some fucked up baking soda.


better way:

make a cup out of aluminum foil, pour your methadone in the "cup"- MAKE SURE it has no holes or it will leak and you will lose your mdone.

drop by drop, add plain olde household ammonia, NON-SCENTED, I like the ace hardware brand, cuz I've seen the MSDS on it, 10% ammonia and nothing else.


drop, drop drop, drop drop drop.

that should do it. 6 drops and swirl around, it should be all cloudy, if not, add drop by drop until it is. swirl or stir. if still very cloudy. you're good, cap your ammonia and put it away (I keep mine in the refrigerator)

Then put your cup below a fan or somewhere where you can get good circulation, you want it to be warm, but not HOT. or the methadone base will melt.

then let it evap, it may take a day, but then once it's done, all you've got to do is put a lighter under it and inhale with a tooter.


enjoy, bitches.

Matt M
07-15-2013, 04:24 PM
baking soda is less than ideal for a number of reasons,

it forms a buffer solution with a range of pH from 7+ to 8.6 or so. Basically, my guess is you didn't spike the pH enough to matter, OR you're right and you've got some fucked up baking soda.


better way:

make a cup out of aluminum foil, pour your methadone in the "cup"- MAKE SURE it has no holes or it will leak and you will lose your mdone.

drop by drop, add plain olde household ammonia, NON-SCENTED, I like the ace hardware brand, cuz I've seen the MSDS on it, 10% ammonia and nothing else.


drop, drop drop, drop drop drop.

that should do it. 6 drops and swirl around, it should be all cloudy, if not, add drop by drop until it is. swirl or stir. if still very cloudy. you're good, cap your ammonia and put it away (I keep mine in the refrigerator)

Then put your cup below a fan or somewhere where you can get good circulation, you want it to be warm, but not HOT. or the methadone base will melt.

then let it evap, it may take a day, but then once it's done, all you've got to do is put a lighter under it and inhale with a tooter.


enjoy, bitches.

That's what I did with the aluminum foil.. I will try again with ammonia. I had quite a bit of water so I may not have gotten the ph up, but the baking soda wouldn't dislove at all. Imma hit up the store tonight.

Thanks.