Reasons NOT to make very strong opioids

[borohydride]

I just read a message sent to me from one of the guys who edits the pharmacutical section of Wikipedia. He noted that the super-potent agonists (e.g. OHMEfentanyl) cause tachyphylaxis SO fast, that they practically start becoming antagonists after a handful of doses. Receptor catabalis & down-regulation - Tachyphalaxysis is the posh name, screw the CNS over really, really badly.

I have talked with a few people who had HUGE supplies of fentanyl available to them and the story was always the same. The upped the dose to a huge level and ended up having to administer ever 30-40 minutes around the clock (so cat-naps only). Withdrawal lasted months in some cases.

I just consider that, for any drug you are considering putting into your own or others bodies should be as low in potency as is required to achieve the desired effect. Can anyone really argue (apart from greed) that anything needs to be much more potent than plain, vanilla fentanyl? Sufentanil is used in balanced-anesthesia for some practical reasons, but personally I think while the new patches may be exciting, they could also prove to be amazingly dangerous.

[Spork]

The TI is higher with those super potent opioids though (see sufentanyl's TI vs regular fentanyl).

I think they should make one called "OhMyFentanyl."

Imagine Thomas K. Highsmith with his etonitazene withdrawal.

[borohydride]

TKH dissolved it in solution & took it from a nasal-spray. At the end he was doing it every 20 minutes. The -NO2 in etonitazine get's reduced in T1/2 20 minutes so duration of activity is only 20-30 minutes. The myth of it being x1500 M is in animal models, in humans it's supposed to be around x60. I seem to remember that he killed himself because the withdrawal (even with methadone) was horrific - that and the ongoing case, I assume...

Funnily enough I have a story somewhere about it being made somewhere in Moscow - they called it 'The Chinese Dwarf' in that Russian manner. Quite a few died getting the dose right because IV it causes major drops in BP (for one thing). In the end they soaked cotton threads in a solution & pushed them down through a cigarette. Apparently it's very euphoric when taken this way; each toke is another hit (which sounds like FAST BBB penetration to me).

I would tend to make something JUST strong enough - you can always take more.

[danny]

I just read a message sent to me from one of the guys who edits the pharmacutical section of Wikipedia. He noted that the super-potent agonists (e.g. OHMEfentanyl) cause tachyphylaxis SO fast, that they practically start becoming antagonists after a handful of doses. Receptor catabalis & down-regulation - Tachyphalaxysis is the posh name, screw the CNS over really, really badly.

I have talked with a few people who had HUGE supplies of fentanyl available to them and the story was always the same. The upped the dose to a huge level and ended up having to administer ever 30-40 minutes around the clock (so cat-naps only). Withdrawal lasted months in some cases.

I just consider that, for any drug you are considering putting into your own or others bodies should be as low in potency as is required to achieve the desired effect. Can anyone really argue (apart from greed) that anything needs to be much more potent than plain, vanilla fentanyl? Sufentanil is used in balanced-anesthesia for some practical reasons, but personally I think while the new patches may be exciting, they could also prove to be amazingly dangerous.

a couple of the chaps who used to post on here but unfortunately dont any more i believe went through similar scenarios, where 1000+mg doses of methadone werent staving off w/ds...

[nick]

Been cropping up on the Russian market since 1998 as spiked smokes.

If anyone cares,I have a jail address for one of our old friends that Danny mentioned.So,if anyone wants to write him I can hook you up.

[Spork]

How??

in reference to danny's post

[borohydride]

Been cropping up on the Russian market since 1998 as spiked smokes.

So there are multiple labs? I've only heard of the one case - the chemist had NO HANDS if you can imagine that - he had some kind of prosthetic (one wonders about Soviet-era replacement parts). In Russia there are no equal rights for the disabled so his only employment was with the Рoссийская мафия (rather him than me).

I have thought of one good(ish) reason - the N-arylethyl morphinans (e.g. phenomorphan) have a very wide TI (as Spork mentioned). Now, this only goes so far but in the case of levorphanol->phenomorphan, the LD50 is almost identical (in rodent models, so OK, a bit of a stretch I admit).


How??

in reference to danny's post

Bit cheeky answering for Danny, but one way is black-market methadone; big in Russia also...

[Spork]

Рoссийская мафия

pocciickar maphir? What? lol.

[danny]

How??

in reference to danny's post

pretty much as boro described in his post, access to mahOOsive amounts of lab fresh fentanyl, cost no issue, i understand although fentanyl is v. strong a tolerance to it builds quickly as its not particularly long lasting, im sure i read somewhere that this particular person was getting thru 100 MG (you read that right) a day, then the supply crashed and burned, and the poor lad was stuck with biblical withdrawals... nice kid as well, i hope hes ok, i didnt know the other fella who was in a similar situ but ended up in jail....

[Spork]

That's 10 grams of morphine "equivalency"

Methadone is ~4x morphine.

So 1000mg of methadone = 4 grams of morphine. That should have been more than enough to stave off withdrawal.

[Seedy]

Reading about what happened to that Highsmith guy gave me fucking nightmares! I fully agree Boro, no need to be fucking with anything more potent than required to get a decent buzz.

[borohydride]

Danny:

If it's the guy I'm thinking of - didn't he describe not sleeping, sweating and anhedonia going on month after month? He knew the guy in jail, I think...

[Spork]

Lol at the pun on his name.

He really was a "High smith"

an intoxicated smith / a smith of intoxicants.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20030603/ai_n11394964/

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

INTERSTESTING AS LOPE IS IN PART INTHE SUFENTANIL FANMILY
IF CROSS THE BBB
!! Sufentanil !!!
HeY BORO
WHY DO YOU TRY TO IV SOME LOPE
MAYBE EVEN TAKEN AA AACETATE AND THEN IV just a littke
then IV a fucxkton
OK?
qoute a scholar
"logically IV lope is the next step now"
'

[danny]

Danny:

If it's the guy I'm thinking of - didn't he describe not sleeping, sweating and anhedonia going on month after month? He knew the guy in jail, I think...

yeah, i really felt sorry for the bloke, i think the two of them were linked without being too explicit...

[borohydride]

That's 10 grams of morphine "equivalency"

Methadone is ~4x morphine.

So 1000mg of methadone = 4 grams of morphine. That should have been more than enough to stave off withdrawal.

Think of the peak plasma levels, not the average - fentanyl (and derivatives like remifentanil & alfentanil) are used in surgery. Also consider the tachyphylaxis. Whatever dose you take, if there simply are fewer receptors...

[nick]

Danny:

If it's the guy I'm thinking of - didn't he describe not sleeping, sweating and anhedonia going on month after month? He knew the guy in jail, I think...

They're old friends and yes,that's how he described part of his wd-which is still on going.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

[QUOTE=danny;633947]pretty much as boro described in his post, access to mahOOsive amounts of lab fresh fentanyl, cost no issue, i understand although fentanyl is v. strong a tolerance to it builds quickly as its not particularly long lasting, im sure i read somewhere that this particular person was getting thru 100 MG (you read that right) a day, then the supply crashed and burned, and the poor lad was stuck with biblical withdrawals... nice kid as well, i hope hes ok, i didnt know the other fella who was in a similar situ but ended up in jail....[/QUOTE

THAT WOULD BE -
ROBO JUNKIE - A REAL CHEMIIST IN JAIL MADE PUR FENT
&
SUPER JUNKIE

[upstate_007]

Is there a reason for not mentioning the names of the two opiophiles in question? SJ & RJ? SJ wrote freely about it here. Well, at least about his experience.

I felt (and continue to feel) so fucking bad for him. The realization after the fact that he is fucked on an astronomical level. Months on end of hell with no end in sight. Any med professional he reached out to would not believe his intake level as dismissed it as junky bullshitting. Fucking terrible.

[borohydride]

They're old friends and yes,that's how he described part of his wd-which is still on going.

Just to confirm - he is STILL in withdrawal? Can the changes at the receptors, then, be permanent? I know that they designed the OHME-FIT & THIO-FIT as irreversible agonists (and alkylating agents - before anyone considers buying them because they are available!).

That is just... well, it's one of the spookiest, awful things I've ever heard concerning chronic opioid use. OK - a lot of terrible stuff out there, but this has that cold-steel feel to it.

-Thanks for telling, Nick.

[sourcecod]

I guess I wasn't sooo bad after all.
christ. 1000mg of Methadone....

fucking hell.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Just to confirm - he is STILL in withdrawal? Can the changes at the receptors, then, be permanent? I know that they designed the OHME-FIT & THIO-FIT as irreversible agonists (and alkylating agents - before anyone considers buying them because they are available!).

That is just... well, it's one of the spookiest, awful things I've ever heard concerning chronic opioid use. OK - a lot of terrible stuff out there, but this has that cold-steel feel to it.
-Thanks for telling, Nick.

TBH- SUOER JUNKIE WAS SELF SMART GENIUOS, B
BUT' EVBE BEFURE THE AFAIRS HE WAS NOT WRAPOED ALL THAT TIGHT- i MEAN THAT NICELY

HE ABUSED A FUUCXKTON OF DRUGS AT BRAINS GROWTH WIT -AGE 12+YR EARS OLD
AND MADE GREAT CRACK AND METH AND
COULD HAVE VERY WELL JUST FRY HIS RCEPECTORS FRO THE SUPOER STIMS\\DAILY USE FER YEARS
WHO THE FUCJK NOSES???

HE WAS DOSES 1 GRAM A FENT A DAY!
AND HE DID KNOW BETEER

[danny]

Is there a reason for not mentioning the names of the two opiophiles in question? SJ & RJ? SJ wrote freely about it here. Well, at least about his experience.

I felt (and continue to feel) so fucking bad for him. The realization after the fact that he is fucked on an astronomical level. Months on end of hell with no end in sight. Any med professional he reached out to would not believe his intake level as dismissed it as junky bullshitting. Fucking terrible.

certain people on here knew them both far better than me, i was waiting to see what other people were saying before i put a name to anyone, i dont know whether people want certain things discussed, but fair call, youre right, superjunkie was pretty open about what had happened, as for robojunkie i didnt really know him beyond expecting him to get a LONG bird from what was being said and then 'only' getting a couple years which seemed like a result beyond what anyone had expected....

apologies for being paranoid, but its too late for me to change now....

ps gnd 1 gram of fentanyl a day? isnt it usually measured in micrograms? fucking hell!

[borohydride]

^Good point, the developing brain could be altered more than the adult. Exactly why schizophrenia develops is supposed to be connected with spindle-neuron death (or so the latest hypothesis seems to suggest). It's known that all people with that kind of disorder have too much dopamine in the frontal cortex OR to little NMDA OR both of the abnormalities - I would bet it turn's out to be two distinct neurological causes...

Still, that fentanyl stuff is scary! I have 125 mg/h on right now (a 100 & a 25) for pain - kind of looking forward to that nerve-block now!

[Count Zero]

Anybody heard from Superjunky at all? That guy was a fentanyl soldier, I hope he's OK.
edit: GnD, I should read before I type. I did not know those two were connected. It makes me worry even more about SJ.

[nick]

Anybody heard from Superjunky at all? That guy was a fentanyl soldier, I hope he's OK.
edit: GnD, I should read before I type. I did not know those two were connected. It makes me worry even more about SJ.

Yeah,I'm kinda in touch with SJ. He's not in a good place.He's still breathing,but after that it's all down hill.

There are Very good reasons why SJ hasn't posted in a while,but I'll let one of our admin explain why themselves.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

ps gnd 1 gram of fentanyl a day? isnt it usually measured in micrograms? fucking hell!

YES AND HE WAS IVING THE FENT
'OMG

HE SAY HE HIT THE OPIATE CELING, I TINK HE WILL RECOEVER IN 5-10 YEARS
AND NEED MAINTAIN 4 EVER
OR TIL WE DE ISCOVER SOME ELSE TO HELP REPAIR

[Spork]

I wish those old RJ threads were still around. So aggravating that I can't read them!!

Holy shite, spinally administered 14 methoxy metopon, a million times morphine!!

[borohydride]

Holy shite, spinally administered 14 methoxy metopon, a million times morphine!!

That's in supraspinal analgesia - not much volume for stuff to dilute in. Hey, wonder if they will be putting that stuff into my spine? Could be fairly sure it was strong enough ;-)

[Lady Kenmare]

Strange. I've taken OCs, MS, and now take Fent 100s, which I both wear and smoke. And by far, coming off the Fent is the easiest with the least withdrawal. I have 2 days b4 my next RX comes in, and I'm running on K-pins, but no typical opiate withdrawals. When I would run out of either OCs or MS, it was leg cramps, massive sweats, epic diarrhea, dehydration--the whole she-bang. Other than feeling depressed, Fent has no withdrawal for me.

[fearofnormalcy]

Other than feeling depressed, Fent has no withdrawal for me.

Consider yourself lucky.

When I kicked, I was at 20mg Methadone a day, around 90mg Oxy a day, but what I really think fucked my tolly proper was the 75mcg of Fent I was smoking every day for the last month. Before that, I got a nice glow from my Oxy, and the 'done staved off my back pain for a good 12 hours...once the Fent got thrown into the mix, I could barely feel the other meds once I came down from a Fent smoking spree. It's been 72 days clean, and the PAWS are still kicking my ass a bit.

Also noteworthy: During my years of Oxy abuse, I never once felt like I was close to an overdose. Thought I could eat/snort huge amounts with no real consequences. I'd just nod out and wake up hours later covered in drool. Not with Fent, though...when I first started experimenting with it, I tried the nasal spray method, not realizing the gel isn't water soluble, and didn't shake the bottle very well. I took two squirts up each nostril and thought I was going to die. My wife only took one, and it was nearly impossible keeping her awake to baby-sit me. I kept pacing back and forth and slapping myself to stay awake...even jumped in an ice cold shower. Freaked me out proper.

It's been beaten to death on the the board, but it's always worth repeating: Respect the Fent.

[Brony]

Yeah,I'm kinda in touch with SJ. He's not in a good place.He's still breathing,but after that it's all down hill.

There are Very good reasons why SJ hasn't posted in a while,but I'll let one of our admin explain why themselves.

SJ wasn't posting because he was blocked due to his incessant criticism/delusional belief that JonnyMohawk and I (me in particular) were the cause of his life being shit, and that we were ruining Opiophile.

[borohydride]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/surreyleader/news/126286393.html

This stuff is UK now - I immediately checked if Woody Bear was still posting; he is.

[danny]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/surreyleader/news/126286393.html

This stuff is UK now - I immediately checked if Woody Bear was still posting; he is.

that header is from canada mate:biggrin:, surrey british columbia....

[Benz]

that header is from canada mate:biggrin:, surrey british columbia....



I thought it was from the UK at first too, I just thought 'I don't WANT fent in my gear!..'. That talk of unrelenting rattle was horrific. 1000mg of methadone not holding you?



Benz

[borohydride]

that header is from canada mate:biggrin:, surrey british columbia....

I look quite the april fooollll....

sorry all, laziness on my part. Actually, Canada is possibly even less likely than the UK (although I hear a lot of 'chicken powder' AKA fentanyl analogues are traded in Tashkent
alongside the H - Currently only the вор в законе seem prepared to sell it on: in spite of
the drought).

[upstate_007]

certain people on here knew them both far better than me, i was waiting to see what other people were saying before i put a name to anyone, i dont know whether people want certain things discussed, but fair call, youre right, superjunkie was pretty open about what had happened, as for robojunkie i didnt really know him beyond expecting him to get a LONG bird from what was being said and then 'only' getting a couple years which seemed like a result beyond what anyone had expected....

apologies for being paranoid, but its too late for me to change now....

ps gnd 1 gram of fentanyl a day? isnt it usually measured in micrograms? fucking hell!

I know what you mean Danny. I was wondering if things were being kept hush for any sort of reason. Both of them are in enough shit and I sure did not want to make it worse.

[Count Zero]

SJ wasn't posting because he was blocked due to his incessant criticism/delusional belief that JonnyMohawk and I (me in particular) were the cause of his life being shit, and that we were ruining Opiophile.

Is he still blocked, meaning could he post if he wanted to now?

[nick]

SJ wasn't posting because he was blocked due to his incessant criticism/delusional belief that JonnyMohawk and I (me in particular) were the cause of his life being shit, and that we were ruining Opiophile.

I hear you and I do appreciate SJ could be difficult and I am grateful you let him come back.BUT I feel there was a better way to handle the situation.
It seems that placing a clearly depressed person who was going through a traumatic experience on universal ignore was perverse for a forum that claims to support harm reduction.
To be honest,given the nature of opiophile universal ignore should NEVER be used.If some one breaks the site rules there are a wide range of sanctions without what could easily be construed as psychological torture.
Basically,universal ignore is anathema to what opiophile should be about.
I'm not looking for an argument,but universla ignore is something I feel very strongly about.

[upstate_007]

Is universal ignore something different than banning?

[Brony]

Nick, I know you feel how you do, but I'm human too, and I can only tolerate so much shit from another person. To say SuperJunky is difficult is an understatement. If I would have banned him, I would've being silencing a critic. No matter what I did, it would be viewed as picking on the little guy.

I cannot attempt to concern myself with every single members emotions...to think that I could would be ludicrous, and I'd compromise myself emotionally. Say what you want, but I did what I needed to do.


Is he still blocked, meaning could he post if he wanted to now?

No, he could post if he wanted to.


Is universal ignore something different than banning?

Yes. Universal ignore makes the blocked person's posts invisible to everyone, but the blocked person can still see everyone else's posts.

[sourcecod]

if my former OG40s were black cats,

then this thread reminds me of tzar bomba

and the ground thereafter being thee fried receptors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxD44HO8dNQ

[borohydride]

I think that is very apt description. Conspiracy theorists might like to consider that if SOMEONE were to introduce this class of drug into the world H supply then it could literally destroy H users in a matter of weeks. Suddenly NO opioid works - your in permanent withdrawal for the rest of your life... however long (or short).

Tsar Bomb is about right, except the FULL Tsar bomb, not the detuned (1/3 power) version that they actually detonated.

I think it proves that pain-management guys know something - always use the least potent opioid that is effective & well-tolerated.

[Spork]

I wonder if people suffering from permanent opioid withdrawal would benefit from a course of treatment with an inverse agonist?

I was reading about some fucked up gaba antagonist called hexacyclonate they used to "treat" alcoholism with.

[danny]

I think that is very apt description. Conspiracy theorists might like to consider that if SOMEONE were to introduce this class of drug into the world H supply then it could literally destroy H users in a matter of weeks. Suddenly NO opioid works - your in permanent withdrawal for the rest of your life... however long (or short).

Tsar Bomb is about right, except the FULL Tsar bomb, not the detuned (1/3 power) version that they actually detonated.

I think it proves that pain-management guys know something - always use the least potent opioid that is effective & well-tolerated.

DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS!:mad::mad::mad:

[borohydride]

If you have no central MOR receptors left, I cannot see it working. GABA mediated treatments for alcoholism come around in decade patterns back to clomethiazole. Every time the LOOK good & then present some serious problem (or, they all have so far).

[Spork]

That reminds me, a study in which rats were artificially ventilated then exposed to INSANE amounts of fentanyl had noticeable damage to the limbic system.

[borohydride]

^More fear inducing stuff...

[upstate_007]

Yes. Universal ignore makes the blocked person's posts invisible to everyone, but the blocked person can still see everyone else's posts.

Thanks Bron

[nick]

Nick, I know you feel how you do, but I'm human too, and I can only tolerate so much shit from another person. To say SuperJunky is difficult is an understatement. If I would have banned him, I would've being silencing a critic. No matter what I did, it would be viewed as picking on the little guy.

I cannot attempt to concern myself with every single members emotions...to think that I could would be ludicrous, and I'd compromise myself emotionally. Say what you want, but I did what I needed to do.


I hear you and if I didn't appreciate how difficult SJ was being,I'd have complained long and loud.So,I do hear you,BUT there were other ways.Next time,maybe try talking to him,then a three month ban.Then more talking.Even more radical,you could have remoded him.Many options and you guys choose one that should NEVER be used here.
That's in the past and a done deal.All I'm asking is that universal ignore NEVER be used again.

[sourcecod]

DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS!:mad::mad::mad:

I was already thinking what boro said long before posting the tzar bomba analogy.
if I was thinking that, I'm sure THEM are thinking that too. sucks :(

[dizzle]

I seriously had chills running down my body reading about this state of "perpetual withdrawl" HOLY FUCK

As for the talk about literally not having anymore MOR recepters, it's interesting, no?

I wonder if there is any course of treatment that would DO anything. Covalent bonding opiates scare me in this way, I fear that Naloxazone or Chlornaltrexamine would cause this, quickly

[Spork]

No those would cause the opposite, some kind of fucked up UP regulating of your opioid receptors, maybe a permanent tolerance DECREASE?

You're thinking of oxymorphazone, etc.

[PiLL CLiNToN]

Wow, this is scary shit. 1000mgs of methadone? HOLY SHIT

[borohydride]

This effect seems to occur in really all potent agonists (that I've found any refs on). It hasn't been studied in less potent agonists but it's kind of frightening if you think about it. It seems like the catabolis is due to these things being almost like irreversible agonists. Are we all slowly burning out our MOR receptors?

[Candy Heart]

Are there any threads referencing this perpetual withdrawal? I tried searching but couldn't find anything. Interesting and scary shit. That first week is insane enough as it is, there's no way I could live like that, id off myself... Glad I never really enjoyed the fent now that I read this. My heart aches for people dealing with that. Ugh

[Gravitysrainbow]

That permanent withdrawl sounds like a nightmare straight out of a Burroughs novel. How in the world can that be survivable and not leave its victim like that Highsmith guy (incredibly fitting name, his lab being a smithy for ways to get high). Or was Highsmith's death attributable to his being in jail and his jailers not knowing how severe his withdrawl was or just thinking "fuck it, he gets x amount of Methadone like any other junky"
I only tried F once, and it floored me but without the pleasantness of other meds. My skin's crawling at the thought of someone taking 1 g of that daily. Hell, there probably would be no financial reason for mafias and other criminal groups to synthesize and move very strong opioids that'll destroy their users in months and need lab-grade scales at every step of the way to avoid that microgram's difference between "gets you high" and "255 separate fatal doses".

[danny]

That permanent withdrawl sounds like a nightmare straight out of a Burroughs novel. How in the world can that be survivable and not leave its victim like that Highsmith guy (incredibly fitting name, his lab being a smithy for ways to get high). Or was Highsmith's death attributable to his being in jail and his jailers not knowing how severe his withdrawl was or just thinking "fuck it, he gets x amount of Methadone like any other junky"
I only tried F once, and it floored me but without the pleasantness of other meds. My skin's crawling at the thought of someone taking 1 g of that daily. Hell, there probably would be no financial reason for mafias and other criminal groups to synthesize and move very strong opioids that'll destroy their users in months and need lab-grade scales at every step of the way to avoid that microgram's difference between "gets you high" and "255 separate fatal doses".


something that boro always says, and makes perfect sense to me is strong ≠ good where opiates are concerned, look at methadone and buprenorphine for starters, both WAY stronger than diamorphine, but dirty horrible weird dysphoric shit in both cases

[Restharrow]

With Fent, its just MORE MORE MORE. Horrible stuff in my opinion.

I spent the night in the ER with my wife while WDing from Fent.

One of the worst nights of my life. Thought I would be sick at home and my wife went to hosp via ambulance. I took off the fent patch and threw it away I was wearing (it was almost 3 days old at that time).

[borohydride]

I think fentanyl & it's derivatives are the worst compounds because of their ultra-short duration. Etonitazine is likewise very dangerous since it's duration is similar to fentanyl. I'm sure the other classes of super-potency MOR+ agents are also bad news, but not quite in this league. I've posted an experience with BDPC & 0.1mg to someone with morphine tolerance was still very potent (DOR+ likely reason). There are quite a few super-potent MOR+ agents, some with reasonable duration (one of particular interest has a duration of 6 hours). At least tolerance wouldn't build up quite as fast but I presume the down-regulation would also occur. Some analogues of R-4066 have T1/2 of 11.4 hours so a TID usage would be sufficient.

-B-

[SuperJunky]

I injected a tiny amount of ohmafentanyl, not the proper 1 of 4 drug but a mixture of four fent analogs that contained more than one ohma fent, the reaction was only about .05% yielding but there was something there despite the epic failure during the first fent crash...

I agree with the op's statement except in one aspect, fentanyls half life extends to about 18 hours at the 100mg per day dose range.

There is a lot I am going to say here, just not ATM. After friday when I am straight and not tripping and properly benzoed I'll make a reply to some of the above comments.

One thing that has been taken way out of proportion is that I blame jonny and brad for my life, that couldn't be further from the truth. The statement it's self, even tripping sack is absurd. Remodding (as was promised) would have been a much better approach. RJ did pay a large sum of money to get opiophile over the tptp hurdle, which gave him certain privileges, $800 to jacky at the worst possible time for us isn't nothing to be overlooked. RJ purchased the right to delegate the sites priority's from jacky as we put all our eggs in the ohmafent basket and both ophile and our lives went up in smoke, a great crash for both opiophile and ourselves at the same time. I will not repeat this, lets leave it in the past after this but the whole situation should not be ignored.

[norseman]

Just also want to agree with SJ with regards to the half life of fent. We have both discussed our experiences and once you get close to 30mg/day the half life is at min 12hrs. I have also looked at quite a bit of the research and the T 1/2 seems to be all over the place depending on who did the research etc.

[danny]

what the FUCK is ohmafentanyl? it sounds like some kind of alien super villain....sheeeeiiitttt....aint heroin bad enough for people? ive managed to make a raving fuckin mess of my life without going beyond that (well methadone)

[borohydride]

OHMEfentantanyl = βhydroxy 3methyl fentanyl - around x 14,000 M

[danny]

OHMEfentantanyl = βhydroxy 3methyl fentanyl - around x 14,000 M

how in the hell can you measure that in sufficient increments to use? half a belly button hairs worth is enough to give ten elephants blue lips, whats all that about? im sure someone was on here comparing these super opiates to chemical weapons - might have even been yourself - i can see where thats coming from, and even if you could measure out a hits worth, with gear i can be anywhere from slightly chatty and occasionally rubbing my nose all the way through to bent over like a paperclip dribbling on the floor, how could you differentiate with that stuff? a hit would be a hit, take it or leave it.
i dunno why people even bother fuckin about with all that nonsense, why dyou want things that much stronger than gear?

[borohydride]

how in the hell can you measure that in sufficient increments to use? half a belly button hairs worth is enough to give ten elephants blue lips

If you have the lab-space & the precursors... you just kind of DO. Dilute solutions, fume-hoods with extractors and lots of care are what fentanyl chemists rely on. Kind of hard to explain.... it's addictive. Like free-fall into shark-infested water (only REAL men and so on...).

SJ: 4 isomers.... so enantiomer-pure styrene-oxide ;-) If you added a -COCH2CH3 @ the 4, potency is over x30,000. Just silly. Clever though...


I stick to around M range - that's enough. OK, you may go a little above (oxyM I guess is top) but never over. A simple, legal & safe drug in that range would save so many lives...