Swim has some Opana ER....

[Dilly4000]

well swim has been put on Opana ER, the 20mg ones. Swim wouldnt mind trying an injection of this to see how it is. but alas when you add water to a crushed pill it becomes a jelly type thing. Is there any info on how to extract the good stuff without being a science major? also how strong is it compared to say hydromorphone? Swim will take the med like its supposed to be taken , but just once would like to try an injection to see how it is, have heard so much good about it, now to get around that jelly forming stuff... :P

[Bastian]

When one mentions oxymorphone, right away ppl have an idea of this "god" drug that will do things other powerful narcotics won't do. Oxymorphone is highly potent, but I doubt it is going to be any different from other powerful narcs like morphine, hydromorphone, or heroin.

[Dilly4000]

Swim understands that it probally isnt this super great best opioid ever. But he would like to find out for himself :D . Swim can IV hydromorphone from time to time and likes how that feels. So if the Opana is a little stronger than that then it could be nice. But since they turn to gel when you mix with water, he hasnt risked anymore until he finds a good, safe way to extract the good stuff from the bad. It would seem that the techniques that work for the MScontins and the Oxycontins that have the safty features in them would work. Anyone know? Is there a proven way to extract from the gel?

[Opiyum]

Instead of raining on your parade like the above poster I say have fun and let us know what its like. I have yet to come across any nor have i heard any first hand experiences from this website or any other. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
As far as your question. I can be of no help

[chemboy7]

Have you tried crisping it?

[jacky]

yeah, I have been waiting for a pill like that to come around my parts, havnt succeeded yet, but I am very interested in the compound.
at first I mistook it for hydromorphone...but my attention was corrected when another opiophile "learned" me otherwise, and stated that it SHOULD be more potent...

hydromorphone injected in a vein to me feels like a mixture of toned down cocaine and dope with wings....and legs....I get the feeling that my arms will blow off of my shoulders....and then the rush dissapates leaving the moving, intense high. I havnt seen any of that compound around for 5 years almost.

when I could get them they were cheap.

one time I was paying for them and I suspected that they were actually the diverted pills that my AIDS sick uncle had left when he died. the pills came around 2 weeks after his death, and from the same group of gay addicts that were his freinds... they tried charging me up, but I stated my suspicions and the price stayed low...

anyway, I would like to hear a report on the material, as I havnt really read any info on the drug from any actual users...

[Dilly4000]

Crisping?? What is that? and how is it done?

[Bastian]

I didn't mean to "rain on anybody's parade", I was just being honest. I myself am guilty of exalting oxymorphone to certain level. This is only because it is something that we haven't tried and because we KNOW this is one potent motherfukker of an opiate.

[ZodiacKiller]

I'll chime in here and say that I've been very interested in this new opiate. It sounds really nice, but I've been wondering what state-of-the-art anti-abuse mechanisms have been worked into the pill. Based on what the OP says, it sounds like it gels up, but I wonder how effective it will be either insufflated or plugged. Here's Endo's "official" website, and there's some pretty strong alcohol contraindication warnings:

http://www.opana.com/

But alas, I was all jazzed to try Palladone when it was introduced, but I never saw it---not one of my many connects could get it---and then it was pulled from the market. I hope I get to try this one before it goes away.


ZK

[chemboy7]

Crisping?? What is that? and how is it done?

Instead of writing it all down I took the lazy man's way out and decided to just use the search engine and find some people talking about it. Their talking about Mallankrodt MS Contin Morphine pills but the principal should be the same.

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=3075&highlight=crisping

[Dilly4000]

Very interesting, swim will give that crisping a try, he was thinking of ways to make it work and he thought of cooking the pill without water first to kinda stop the gel forming thing, has anyone else used this method also? any other tips or experiences? swim will give ya the results soon as he has them.

[devilsdrug]

the proof is in the one who has done it any negative or positive speculation is havin a good dream or abad dream i say fuk it till i try it which wont be long cause im putin my order in with the man who gives me his fents he doesnt know about it but will request it cause all he gets now are reg dillys

[dorje]

I have IV oxymorphone in its Blue Endo Numorphan form. I found it better than Dilaudid IV. Opana is same stuff ,same company but gel added so you can't shoot it, but opies are creative so...As soon as the drug company reps start buying lunches for docs with free OPANA samples you'll see more around. Just do it and let us know your opinion.

[northernstar]

I'll chime in here and say that I've been very interested in this new opiate. It sounds really nice, but I've been wondering what state-of-the-art anti-abuse mechanisms have been worked into the pill. Based on what the OP says, it sounds like it gels up, but I wonder how effective it will be either insufflated or plugged. Here's Endo's "official" website, and there's some pretty strong alcohol contraindication warnings:

http://www.opana.com/

But alas, I was all jazzed to try Palladone when it was introduced, but I never saw it---not one of my many connects could get it---and then it was pulled from the market. I hope I get to try this one before it goes away.


ZK


looks like your pioneering new tarritory here.....interested in the results.

in the gel-defeteing area its important to see if the actual chemical is HCL or not. (if not u will add a small amount of diluitd muriatic-hcl to make it so, or if it is then u wont have too)

( for re-solidifying the pure gel free product) this is true for anything, so it will be for oxy-m but i cant say if the same solvent will work for oxy-m as works for oxycodone or mscontin...but one would think it would and it is likely to.

if u want i will find the thread for you, but alchole might be a way to go as well....

[Dilly4000]

Well swim gave the crisping a try and didnt have good results =( the crisping did stop the gel from forming, and then when mixed with water and filtered left a brownish liquid, filtered again, still brown. Gave it a try... didnt notice much. his headache went away, so maybe it did have a little in it. He will give it another try after sleeping and before he takes anything else, that first shot in the morning always seems to hit harder than the others. So maybe he will notice it then. Any other ideas on how to get the good stuff outta there? the crisping does stop the gel formation, but seems there needs to be a better way to get the good stuff out after that.

[shaunclo]

I would try plugging a couple of them if you have no succes with not getting them to gel on you. That should be the next best way to get those goodies outta them.

Shit....If I were you, I would be happy with just being able to hold them in my hand. If you cant find a way to shoot those, still feel lucky that you have some. Cause from what I have been hearing, you have the golden goose.

[john_doe]

Try one orally or something. Stop messing around and just do it or pass them to us! lol. Insufflate one or something. Or shove it up your ass! haha Let us know how it went!!!

[Dilly4000]

Well swim has given up with the water and trying to IV it. he dont want to waste them until there is a really good method that is found. He will just swallow them or such, maybe after cutting it in half and let you all know if that is any better. Thanks for all the info and help, sorry he doesnt have some good info for you =( He knows so many peeps where looking forward to some good results, sorry =( But hopefully there will be some better results with another way. Thanks again.

[CUBErt]

We're waaaaiiiiiting...:confused-. :juggle: :jerkoff:

[SirDonkeyPunch]

when you crisp a pill the remaining liquid is almost always brown. sometimes when its not crisped thoroughly it still gels up but taste the liquid u are able to draw up and go from there. crisping eliminates the pill matrix by breaking it down by heat. Ive heard of other ways like people putting them into ovens in tin foil for so long on a certain temp, and also microwaving them for so long. I plan on experimenting with these methods for the other "gelly pills" and post results, so the community can have answers without having to waste their own stash.

i imagine the gel inside is a silicone based compound, its the most recent attempt that im aware of to make pills more abuseproof. Its one of the hardest kind of things to deal with, but if it does gel up, i would repeatedly rinse it and the reduce what u get from that down to 1-3cc's (for however big your outfit is) and give it a shot.

a shot... get it... ahahahaha

[blueflutterfly]

well swim has been put on Opana ER, the 20mg ones. Swim wouldnt mind trying an injection of this to see how it is. but alas when you add water to a crushed pill it becomes a jelly type thing. Is there any info on how to extract the good stuff without being a science major? also how strong is it compared to say hydromorphone? Swim will take the med like its supposed to be taken , but just once would like to try an injection to see how it is, have heard so much good about it, now to get around that jelly forming stuff... :P


does it gel as soon as the water touches it? or does it gel once you start to heat it...

[LayinLow]

does it gel as soon as the water touches it? or does it gel once you start to heat it...

shit, I would just crush the fucker and snort a fat rail of it, or chew it up good and swallow... anyone give one of those a try yet?


p.s.- is everyone else's spell check not working either? or is it just me?

[blueflutterfly]

shit, I would just crush the fucker and snort a fat rail of it, or chew it up good and swallow... anyone give one of those a try yet?


p.s.- is everyone else's spell check not working either? or is it just me?

i was the type who shot everything. snorting and the like wouldn't even cross my mind...not till i'd exausted every possible means of making the substance injectable. needle junky...tho it wasn't the needle but the fantasic results it produced. once i cross'd that line any other way seem'd like a waste of dope and time. :o

[Dilly4000]

Well, first of all, they gel as soon as water touches them. That was a big shocker and swim was pissed! to say the least. The dillies swim just got gel when heated, he has found a work around for those that seems to work, he just really likes the dillies that you just crush, mix with water, heat up and filter and slam. This gel shit just makes so much extra needless work and frustration. Did they really think it would stop a junkie from getting what they want? :P Thing that sucks for swim is that taking dilly by mouth is pretty worthless for pain relief. But IV that same amount and BAM wonderful pain relief and a nice feeling to go with it. Cant go wrong with that.
Anyway, As far as the opana goes, he is saving it as a emergency stash. As long as he has the dillies they provide the pain relief and hopefully he will never get these Roxane POS's that gel when heated. If he gets desperate or runs out of dillie then he will break out the opana and do what needs to be done. But here is a final bit of the info he learned about the Opana ER so others can work off some of the info he found out.
They gel as soon as water touched them, cold or hot.
Crisping seems to break down the gel matrix, hence no gel, but you really gotta crisp them good and then grind them up good.
He cant see any possible way to get something out of it without stopping the gel formation. Once that gel forms it sucks up all the water you can throw at it. It gets really messy and sticky. Also he scrapped off the outer coating.
Hope some of that info helps others that are trying to figure this out. Good Luck and if he gets anymore info and such he will post it here. Best of luck and he thanks you all for the help.

[moviebuff927]

Try this:

Crush up the pill really fine...take the powder and set aside...in a spoon, add 1cc of water, set another .5cc to the side...heat until just boiling, then immediately pour the powder into the just boiling water...get the .5cc of cool water and add it to the edge of the water line in the spoon, all around it...throw the cotton in, draw up...I bet you'll get almost all of the oxymorphone out of those jelly pills...

[Dilly4000]

Swim will give that a try, not sure how well it will work. from his experience as soon as these pills touch moisture they gel. But he still has a bunch left that he is saving for emergencies and if he cant get to the pharm today and pick up his dillies then he will be all out. If he finds anymore info he will post it here asap.
:D

[northernstar]

Swim will give that a try, not sure how well it will work. from his experience as soon as these pills touch moisture they gel. But he still has a bunch left that he is saving for emergencies and if he cant get to the pharm today and pick up his dillies then he will be all out. If he finds anymore info he will post it here asap.
:D



Why dont you try the solvent extraction on them? u have to do 5-10 20mg pills at once, minumium 5, but you should be left with pure powder, or water with 85% of the start amount in 5ml of water. this sounds just like the jell-action in newer orphine and oxycontins, or even some hydrocodone pills. This solvent extraction is designed to defeat the gel, as all the gel crap is left in the solvent layer......and the opiate in the water.

[moviebuff927]

The trick to the "heat up the water, throw in the powder, add another .5cc of room temperature water" is to do it sorta quick. Once that wax has time to expand, the morphine, or in your case the oxymorphone, gets trapped inside and the water is then impossible to get out. The trick is separating the water and the wax for time it takes to draw up through a contin. Everytime I do it this way, the water in the syringe is bitter as fuck and the sludge left behind and the cotton ball are not bitter at all. That's letting me know that I'm getting almost all of the morphine out of my contins. If you add water to the powder, they almost always gel up too fast. If you add the powder to almost boiling water, the morphine dissolves in the water, the wax melts, and if you can throw in that cotton and draw it up quick enough, you'll see the wax left on the bottom of the spoon and all around the cotton ball, but not in it. The reason for adding the room temperature water is to try and get all that wax that you can still see after adding the powder to the middle, so there's none floating around. Then throw that cotton on top of the wax, and draw up. Dude, I'm telling you this works every time with my MS, and I'm sure that if you have a Opana that doesn't have the capsule with the sprinkles in it (like morphine has with Avinza) then this should work with yours. It couldn't hurt to try it on one...

[moviebuff927]

I forgot to add:

This only works if you do the basic principles of shooting pills, and especially contins. You have to take the coating off, you have to have all the "normal" materials you would need if you were shooting up H, and you have to practice the same techniques.

SWIM has had some of the shittiest of the generic MS Contins: generic Ethex 15mg morphine sulphate controlled-released and yet this same method had me RUSHING from a 15 mg generic MS Contin pill and I have an unbelievably high tolerance! Be careful if you have the 200's, 100's, or even the 60's!

I got tired of having had pills upon pills wasted because the way I read didn't work. So I just used my own common sense and my knowledge of opiates and injecting. I posted a thread the day this site got hacked and I haven't seen it on here since. I thought maybe the pill manufacturers read that way and said "we gotta shut this shit down and never let the shit get out". I'm telling you, just try it.

[Dilly4000]

Swim will give it a try. :) He hopes it works well too. He has a pretty big tolerence and even teh dillies dont give a huge rush like they used to. oh oh quick story time.

Swim had to fly cross country for medical reasons. Seeing a doc. Anyway, he packed his neddles, nice new and clean in the checked luggage so he wouldnt have to have a script for having them on the carry on. Well he gets to his destination, and his luggage isnt there! Since there was a quick change over the luggae didnt make it to his plane. So it was delayed many hours. Thankfully the state he was in lets you buy needles over the counter. He went to a pharmacy and bought a 10 pack for $2 =) Took his dillies and all was good. Anyway, he was there for 4 days and only brought enough dilly for that time. So on the morning he was leaving to go home he went to cook up his last dillies for one last shot to keep his pain at bay for the 10 hour plane flight and then 2 hour drive home. Well as luck would have it as he was cooking the spoon fell off the counter and spilled everything on the hotel carpet! OMG he was so upset. But alas it was gone. nothing he coulda done to get it out. So being on a plane in those cramped seats, carrying luggage and then being in rush hour traffic (of course) to get home while withdrawels set in and the pain was at its worst was real sucky to say the least. BUT, he got home, where he had all the rest of his dilaudids. Plenty of them. So he cooked up a dose, with an extra one for good measure cause the pain was so much. Man, once that hit his veins the rush was the most intense ever! it was almost worth all the 12+ hours of hell. Anyway thats enough of the stories.

He is just hoping the Opana will feel real nice once he can make it work :P. He is hoping your method works nicely =)

[nick]

Please try soon I'm really want to know what happens and I guess I'm not the only one.
P.S. Glad you're safe and well at home.

[nick]

Please try soon I really want to know what happens and I guess I'm not the only one.
P.S. Glad you're safe and well at home.

[moviebuff927]

Okay (just researched this a little bit and found some disturbing information),

The brand name new Opana ER's have a new time release feature unlike the MS Contins or OxyContins, or their generic counterparts. It's called "TIMERx" and silicified microcrystalline cellulose. In other words, it's harder than the Contins to get into liquid form and also has a form of SILICA microcrystalline cellulose in it! Silica is EXTREMELY bad for your veins and EVEN WORSE for your lungs. Silica inhalation in and of itself (even snorting) could be dangerous! I don't really know what silicified microcrystalline cellulose is, but if it has silica in it, it can't be good. This is all in the prescribing information:

http://opana.com/pdfs/Opana_ER_PI.pdf

I'm guessing that this product has been formulated very dangerously for intravenous injection. It's almost like they want you to hurt or kill yourself if you try and inject this pill. It blows my mind that they go to these extreme (and expensive) lengths to try and hurt people trying to get high off of this pill! I don't know if this was their own decision (Endo Pharmaceuticals) or the FDA required this because of the extreme abuse potential of this extreme opiate. I have never tried oxymorphone, but if it's anything like the codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone wave, it would have to be better than hydromorphone and that's hard to imagine. Almost like a rush more intense than heroin or hydromorphone and twice as dangerous. Anybody ever had Numorphan IV in the hospital? Just wondering if this oxymorphone gives a rush when IV'd greater than hydromorphone.

I'd hold back on injecting until further research is done. This is a new product and a new time release feature...

[moviebuff927]

Here's an article on the different water holding capacities of microcrystalline cellulose, and silicified microcrystalline cellulose:

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/11297898

[vaxn8]

SWIM has had some of the shittiest of the generic MS Contins: generic Ethex 15mg morphine sulphate controlled-released and yet this same method had me RUSHING from a 15 mg generic MS Contin pill and I have an unbelievably high tolerance! Be careful if you have the 200's, 100's, or even the 60's!

So I just used my own common sense and my knowledge of opiates and injecting. I posted a thread the day this site got hacked and I haven't seen it on here since. I thought maybe the pill manufacturers read that way and said "we gotta shut this shit down and never let the shit get out". I'm telling you, just try it.

The morphine thing is really strange, what do you consider an "unbelievably" high tolerance? 15 mg of morphine straight from a pure vial wouldn't do anything for me, I don't see how you could get that much out of one pill, unless 15 mg is a lot for you or you were talking about more than one pill.

I don't think the method is going to work on these. Every description I have read about the opanas describes gel, not wax. It sounds much more similar to the Endo MS and other endos that gel. It's a nice method for the waxys though! This question could be answered by checking on the inactives in both endo products. I know the endo MS are tough to get working.

That was pretty funny about the site going down when you posted your method, there were a couple of cases where people thought similar things.



Okay (just researched this a little bit and found some disturbing information),

The brand name new Opana ER's have a new time release feature unlike the MS Contins or OxyContins, or their generic counterparts. It's called "TIMERx" and silicified microcrystalline cellulose. In other words, it's harder than the Contins to get into liquid form and also has a form of SILICA microcrystalline cellulose in it! Silica is EXTREMELY bad for your veins and EVEN WORSE for your lungs. Silica inhalation in and of itself (even snorting) could be dangerous! I don't really know what silicified microcrystalline cellulose is, but if it has silica in it, it can't be good. This is all in the prescribing information:

http://opana.com/pdfs/Opana_ER_PI.pdf

I'm guessing that this product has been formulated very dangerously for intravenous injection. It's almost like they want you to hurt or kill yourself if you try and inject this pill. It blows my mind that they go to these extreme (and expensive) lengths to try and hurt people trying to get high off of this pill! I don't know if this was their own decision (Endo Pharmaceuticals) or the FDA required this because of the extreme abuse potential of this extreme opiate. I have never tried oxymorphone, but if it's anything like the codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone wave, it would have to be better than hydromorphone and that's hard to imagine. Almost like a rush more intense than heroin or hydromorphone and twice as dangerous. Anybody ever had Numorphan IV in the hospital? Just wondering if this oxymorphone gives a rush when IV'd greater than hydromorphone.

I'd hold back on injecting until further research is done. This is a new product and a new time release feature...

I'll have to check out the two to see what the difference is in the time-release. You are correct about the silica, not good to be inhaling or injecting. For every time release though, there's a way to release it, just needs some work and further research, nothing's impossible.

I haven't tried them yet, not sure if I would switch to them if asked. If forced to switch, I would definitely be putting in some serious research time on them!

[dorje]

I have IV oxymorphone when it was known as Numorphan or Blue Endos. The rush is better than Dilaudid. Movie Buff-I'll bet Endo has done the microcrystalline job. They lost a lot of $ and reputation when they had to pull Blue Endos from the market. They have designed OPANA to be unshootable. Anyone know how to seperate microcyrtalline silica from the pills ? Fractional distillation ? Nuclear resonance imaging ? Bleach ?

[devilsdrug]

i hope to contribute to this soon as i have passed on the info so friend can tell his doc yea i said tell cause thats how he has it the fucker but all his old fents are mine, they just wont give them to me all at once which is prolly good idea currently he gets dis

[BigWaves]

Okay (just researched this a little bit and found some disturbing information),

Anybody ever had Numorphan IV in the hospital? Just wondering if this oxymorphone gives a rush when IV'd greater than hydromorphone.

I'd hold back on injecting until further research is done. This is a new product and a new time release feature...

Definitely, this Opana™ is a potent motherfucker. Problem with something this strong is what it must do to your tolerance. If one ran out they'd need a handful of percocets to provide a desired effect or even worse, adequate pain control. It could ruin a man for anything less. I used to know the rough estimate-oral oxymorph was something like 10-12x that of [oral]morphine, and dilaudid is about 8x right? Risky bizness.

Kinda scares the shit out of me...but being a degenerate junkie, I still want to try it like all hell. Get "halfway to Elvis" & wander around Downtown Vegas :D

Treasure those babies tho. They'll probably get yanked off the market like [B]Palladone™ ("Dilaudid-contin") after a few overdoses come in. It's so unfortunately inevitable. I'll give it less than 12 months. Maybe there's a Vegas line on that.

Enjoy...BE CAREFUL!

[BigWaves]

Okay (just researched this a little bit and found some disturbing information),

The brand name new Opana ER's have a new time release feature unlike the MS Contins or OxyContins, or their generic counterparts. It's called "TIMERx" and silicified microcrystalline cellulose. In other words, it's harder than the Contins to get into liquid form and also has a form of SILICA microcrystalline cellulose in it! Silica is EXTREMELY bad for your veins and EVEN WORSE for your lungs. Silica inhalation in and of itself (even snorting) could be dangerous! I don't really know what silicified microcrystalline cellulose is, but if it has silica in it, it can't be good. This is all in the prescribing information:

http://opana.com/pdfs/Opana_ER_PI.pdf

I'm guessing that this product has been formulated very dangerously for intravenous injection. It's almost like they want you to hurt or kill yourself if you try and inject this pill. It blows my mind that they go to these extreme (and expensive) lengths to try and hurt people trying to get high off of this pill! I don't know if this was their own decision (Endo Pharmaceuticals) or the FDA required this because of the extreme abuse potential of this extreme opiate. I have never tried oxymorphone, but if it's anything like the codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone wave, it would have to be better than hydromorphone and that's hard to imagine. Almost like a rush more intense than heroin or hydromorphone and twice as dangerous. Anybody ever had Numorphan IV in the hospital? Just wondering if this oxymorphone gives a rush when IV'd greater than hydromorphone.

I'd hold back on injecting until further research is done. This is a new product and a new time release feature...


Here's the company that holds the patent for TIMERx along with a load of information on the site. Spooky shit. Different kinds of drug "release"; steady, decreasing, and a "burst" variation.

http://www.penwest.com/timerx_profiles.html

[insanesteveo]

Here's the company that holds the patent for TIMERx along with a load of information on the site. Spooky shit. Different kinds of drug "release"; steady, decreasing, and a "burst" variation.

http://www.penwest.com/timerx_profiles.html

that would be a great company to invest in, and its stock is only about 17 bucks a share.

[HeidiW]

I've wondered about Opana's myself . . .
Whoever mentioned the HCI Muriatic or Hydrochloric acid was right. That shit should take care of the gel.
Have you tried breaking down with vinegar? Let me know your results, as me and everyone else I'm sure anxiously awaiting your findings.

[vaxn8]

^ HCl may speed it up, but if you look at the tech specs on their system, just letting it sit in plain water should do it. It's going to take a while for all of it to be relesed, but water is all it takes to get it to start. They actually have some pretty cool pics of how it works.

Also, I think I'd try it without the acid first unless you have some way of measuring pH. The pH is going to change the confirmations and reactivity of the two reagents they are using to make the time release happen. It was really a good idea, but I think they may have either overlooked the obvious or just thought junkies aren't patient enough to wait for it to release in H2O.

[Azrael]

Saline seems to help with a lot of the stubborn type pills like Endo MScontin. When I say it seems to help, I mean it helps the matrix break down better than plain distilled water. Also if I can shoot ENDO Mscontin 100mg pills, than it's gotta be possible to shoot these Opana ER pills, I always heat the powder first, ala crisping, though I don't have it smoke and change color like most people who crisp, as I have no idea how they keep the morphine from turning airborn as smoke. My method yields around 60% of 100mg, which sucks, but it's better than taking morphine orally, that's for damn sure. Sorry to ressurect this old post but I was very curious about opana and though if anyone has any right now this might be some helpful information.

-Azrael

[exitwound]

I'm hoping to come away from my next doc appt. with a script for at least 120 5mg Opana, preferably 120+ of the 10mg. This will be for breakthrough pain on top of Duragesic patches, or barring that, Opana ER. (probably 60mg at a time to start, a 40 and a 20 taken 3x per day)

My primary experiment is going to be plugging them to get added effect since oral bioavail. is so low, and I have no injection experience.