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blinky89
08-19-2011, 08:43 AM
after running several different searches through the MFSE, i see theres not very much info on this new drug on this site and not much recent info at all. i was prescribed this by my neurologist yesterday and had heard of it, but didnt know much about it and couldnt find much of what i would consider 'valid' info....so i proceeded with caution.

just took two 50mg tabs. it took a good hour or so to kick in, but it DEF kicked in. it had a very odd feel to it. its def not like extra strength tramadol some ppl have said....this without a doubt does have opi effects. that being said, it does seem to have another effect similar to the speediness of trams, but much more pronounced. im actually really glad i stuck to 100mg bc about 2 hours after ingestion, i went through a 15-20 min period of very noticably depressed respiration accompanied with extreme drowsiness. but after that had been going on for about 20 mins, it just completely disappeared within seconds....along with all the other effects. weird.....there was no gradual 'coming down', it was just like a snap of the fingers and it was gone.

anybody else had experience with nucynta lately? i believe the last decent thread about this i could find was from march and most of the stuff in the threads i did find were mostly about the structure, pharmacology, ect......so i just wanted to add what ive experienced so far and want to know EXPERIENCE wise what you guys know

candyman20
08-19-2011, 09:35 AM
after running several different searches through the MFSE, i see theres not very much info on this new drug on this site and not much recent info at all. i was prescribed this by my neurologist yesterday and had heard of it, but didnt know much about it and couldnt find much of what i would consider 'valid' info....so i proceeded with caution.

just took two 50mg tabs. it took a good hour or so to kick in, but it DEF kicked in. it had a very odd feel to it. its def not like extra strength tramadol some ppl have said....this without a doubt does have opi effects. that being said, it does seem to have another effect similar to the speediness of trams, but much more pronounced. im actually really glad i stuck to 100mg bc about 2 hours after ingestion, i went through a 15-20 min period of very noticably depressed respiration accompanied with extreme drowsiness. but after that had been going on for about 20 mins, it just completely disappeared within seconds....along with all the other effects. weird.....there was no gradual 'coming down', it was just like a snap of the fingers and it was gone.

anybody else had experience with nucynta lately? i believe the last decent thread about this i could find was from march and most of the stuff in the threads i did find were mostly about the structure, pharmacology, ect......so i just wanted to add what ive experienced so far and want to know EXPERIENCE wise what you guys know

im pretty sure there is a few threads about this and im pretty sure it is like extra strength tramadol from what ive read, and if u take to much u will probly have a seizure

SeVeN
08-19-2011, 09:41 AM
Has it been 3 fucking days already?

sourcecod
08-19-2011, 09:41 AM
I ate this drug and it felt like a speedy opie.
I snorted this drug and it burned my nose like no other...
I spiked this drug and was only moderately impressed, actually not impressed...
Don't take more than 300mg without a xanax handy. I fucking felt like doing the fishdance at 400mg...
Fuck Tapentadol. Worst 360 pills ever to enter my possession.. :(

Good for w/ds though :)

blinky89
08-19-2011, 09:45 AM
im pretty sure there is a few threads about this and im pretty sure it is like extra strength tramadol from what ive read, and if u take to much u will probly have a seizure

im sure you probably could get a siezure if u take too many.....but its def. not like trams as far as the effects go. im a fairly experienced tram user and am very familiar with its effects. trams give me this speedy buzz and slight nausea/lump in my stomach......these have a much more profound sedating effect, but have a speedy feeling too.....its not that strong of a speedy feel, but its very noticeable.....kinda hard to describe

doctor diesel
08-19-2011, 10:09 AM
Tapentadol is tramadol's bigger brother, but it isn't exactly the same, with more strength, because where Tramadol is an SNRI (serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor - as well as a mild opioid), Tapentadol is an NRI and an opioid (stronger opioid than Tram's).
This means Tapentadol's combination therapy, which results in pretty impressive painkilling, is a two-way, rather than three-way one, and there is theoretically no effect on serotonin levels, which could make it safer than tram from the point of view of seizures and serotonin syndrome.
The 'speediness' that both these drugs give is most likely due to norepinephrine reuptake, which can increase background adrenalin levels.


Doc

OP8world
08-19-2011, 11:35 AM
im pretty sure there is a few threads about this and im pretty sure it is like extra strength tramadol from what ive read, and if u take to much u will probly have a seizure

This is correct. There are threads on opiophile with experience related info about Nucynta.
A few months ago I got my hands on 10 50mg Nucyntas. They are nothing special. I observed no effects from them.

Contrary to some info on the web, in my experience, Nucynta does not potentiate other opiates. If it does, it is negligible.
At the time I had a tolly of about 250mg morphine per day (oral).
I tried doses of Nucynta up to 100 mg an hour prior to morphine ingestion, and observed no conspicuous increase in percieved strength.

I also tried doses of Nucynta in conjunction with diazepam. I felt the diazepam, but the addition of 50-100mg Nucynta did not produce any discernable benefit.

Some info on this med got my hopes up. I was let down. Those pills have all been consumed and I am not interested in aquiring any in the future. Perhaps my tollerance precludes me from experiencing Nucynta (though I don't see why it would).

In an unrelated note, I tried high-dose lope (50mg) for the first time yesterday and I am blown away by how much it alleviated withdrawl symptoms. Lope really is amazing.:wink:

Sorry for derailing.

PoppyLlama
08-19-2011, 07:56 PM
yeah nucynta is a weird opiate, everything doc said is correct so i wont repeat it. but it can have some very odd effects, visual distortions and hallucinations and jittery restlessness.

its totally worthless if you have any kind of tolerance though, not strong enough for anything, the NRI effects just become to strong for it to be any fun to get high off of. However, if you have no tolerance or a very low one it can be quite enjoyable.

I would just keep them for withdrawal days

blinky89
08-19-2011, 08:49 PM
yeah nucynta is a weird opiate, everything doc said is correct so i wont repeat it. but it can have some very odd effects, visual distortions and hallucinations and jittery restlessness.

its totally worthless if you have any kind of tolerance though, not strong enough for anything, the NRI effects just become to strong for it to be any fun to get high off of. However, if you have no tolerance or a very low one it can be quite enjoyable.

I would just keep them for withdrawal days
Yea this is probably wats gonna happen. And yes, it is a VERY weird drug....I can def feel the opt effect but can't really enjoy them bc of this weird feeling that's like right behind my eyes if that makes any sense? Im probably gonna call my dr Monday and say I can't take these bc I took one and thought my heart started beating real fast and made me all anxious ect and ask if I can get a script for something else if I bring the remaining pills to his office.

May work, may not....but I wud def rather get something else over this. He told me yesterday we would do whatever we had to do med wise so I know he doesn't mind scripting....but who knows. He did however set me up wit a PM doc on sept.6 so im psyched about that!

SubHuman
08-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Drugs like this have no reason to exist. Im all for synthing new opioids but only if they are better than their predecessors, we have plenty of opiates/opioids that kill pain very effectively. The law would rather a patient take a medication that has the potential to cause seizures, doesnt work nearly as effective on pain, causes opiate dependance just like other opiates and is not tried and true and been used for long periods of time and proven safe just to try and stop the people who are gonna get high anyway from getting high.

blinky89
08-19-2011, 10:27 PM
Drugs like this have no reason to exist. Im all for synthing new opioids but only if they are better than their predecessors, we have plenty of opiates/opioids that kill pain very effectively. The law would rather a patient take a medication that has the potential to cause seizures, doesnt work nearly as effective on pain, causes opiate dependance just like other opiates and is not tried and true and been used for long periods of time and proven safe just to try and stop the people who are gonna get high anyway from getting high.

straight up dude....i think it has more to do with public opinion than anything. like, i honestly dont think the dea could give a fuck less about the patients' wellbeing....but it puts them in a better light getting out these alternate drugs that are 'in the patient's best interest'. fuckin bullshit....the bottom line has nothing to do with them wanting to stop ppl from getting high.....the bottom line is that they want the public to THINK they want to stop ppl from getting high when in reality, they want those ppl thinking that bc it feeds into the whole 'drug war' and the donations come flowing in

Spork
08-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Nucynta is a completely different molecule from Tramadol.

Tramadol is a two ringed molecule, and is not especially unique from other two ringed opioids (Demerol) from a molecular standpoint.

Tapentadol only has one phenyl ring and is a very unique molecule, the first opioid with a novel structure in something like 25 years.

Tapentadol:
6992

Tramadol (both isomers shown):

6993

blinky89
08-19-2011, 11:08 PM
Nucynta is a completely different molecule from Tramadol.

Tramadol is a two ringed molecule, and is not especially unique from other two ringed opioids (Demerol) from a molecular standpoint.

Tapentadol only has one phenyl ring and is a very unique molecule, the first opioid with a novel structure in something like 25 years.

Tapentadol:
6992

Tramadol (both isomers shown):

6993

this is why its annoying me that ppl are saying that its just like a high dose of tramadol.....tapentadol is obviously different....i can vouche for the fact that its effects are much more stronger and much more recreational than tramadol. although nowhere near the recreational value of oxycodone, for instance, which has much more euphoria than tapentadol.

its def different, but it IS an opi and has opi properties. i took a dose of 100 mg around lunch time today while wide awake and about 1 1/2 hours after ingestion i was nodding.....there was def a speedy feel of some sort but def not like the speedy feel tramadol produces

PoppyLlama
08-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Drugs like this have no reason to exist. Im all for synthing new opioids but only if they are better than their predecessors, we have plenty of opiates/opioids that kill pain very effectively. The law would rather a patient take a medication that has the potential to cause seizures, doesnt work nearly as effective on pain, causes opiate dependance just like other opiates and is not tried and true and been used for long periods of time and proven safe just to try and stop the people who are gonna get high anyway from getting high.

First of all, as people have said before, tapentadol does NOT cause seizures! Also, it can be particularly helpful for neuropathic pain due to the NRI (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) properties along side the opiate receptor agonist.

Now also, why do you sound so mad "drugs like this have no reason to exist" this isn't something to get worked up over you sound like you're just pissed cuz you couldn't get high off it. Honestly, this is a great medication for people with no to low opiate tolerances. So tell me, when you say you want these newly synthed opiates to be better, what exactly defines "better" for you? I just find it funny you say that they should be better when this drug IS better than regular opiates for neuropathic pain but yet it 'has to reason to exist.' So what does 'better' mean for you then?

Sorry if I sound like a dick, but I think you should think before you post and make sure you actually know what you're talking about. Read up on something before you give advice or bad talk it. For real, it's so dumb not to.

Dutch
08-21-2011, 03:37 AM
This drug is total shite! It will relieve most WD symptoms but aside from that Nucynta is a total waste. It's speedy and trippy side effects at moderate doses make it uncomfortable and over all not fun. 75mg is equivalent to 15mg Oxycodone in regards to analgesia.

borohydride
08-21-2011, 08:49 AM
Although tapentadol has never been encountered in the UK, it has been listed as a class A drug under the MoDA!

I can find no information on replacing the dimethyl amine with something more interesting. It is tempting to wonder if the piperidine/morpholine analogues have been tested but lacking the NRI activity, are MORE abusable and therefore not something that is likely to become licenced?

BTW Tramadol, or rather (+)-desmethyltramadol is a stronger analgesic than tapentadol but has little or no NRI/SRI activity & is therefore likely to be fairly abusable. Check out:

'A Practical Procedure for the Resolution of (+) & (-) Tramadol' Organic Process Research & Development 2000,4,291−294

Basically, it's simply the formation of the mandalate salt using (-) mandelic acid in a solvent system comprised of isopropyl acetate/ethyl acetate (3:2) @ 70C.

Demethylation of tramadol is pretty simple. Although you may want to go with a lewis acid (FeCl2 makes an usual but excellent choice), a simple HBr/MgBr2 system will work just fine.

Of course, for the trouble involved, it may be easier just to produce 6-methyl tramadol (US Patent 6828345) which is almost exactly 3 x more potent.

Dutch
08-21-2011, 10:33 AM
I experienced more side effects from Nucynta than i have ever had with any other medication. Dry Mouth, Insomnia, Visual Distortion, Hallucinations, Elevated Heart Rate. That drug just feels like it's affecting too many parts of my brain. I feel totally off and tripped out on that shit. I honestly can't believe that shit made it through trials.

SubHuman
08-21-2011, 11:17 AM
Now also, why do you sound so mad "drugs like this have no reason to exist" this isn't something to get worked up over you sound like you're just pissed cuz you couldn't get high off it.?

Sorry if I sound like a dick, but I think you should think before you post and make sure you actually know what you're talking about. Read up on something before you give advice or bad talk it. For real, it's so dumb not to.
Ive never taken it therefore how could I "not get high from it"? Nothing wrong with me saying drugs like this shouldnt exist, its not as effective as the traditional opiates/opoioids and isnt proven as safe.

doctor diesel
08-25-2011, 06:52 AM
I experienced more side effects from Nucynta than i have ever had with any other medication. Dry Mouth, Insomnia, Visual Distortion, Hallucinations, Elevated Heart Rate. That drug just feels like it's affecting too many parts of my brain. I feel totally off and tripped out on that shit. I honestly can't believe that shit made it through trials.


Have you experienced tramadol, Dutch? If so, what comparison would you make with Tapentadol's effects?


Doc

ausativa
08-25-2011, 11:01 AM
tramadol = lame.

doctor diesel
08-25-2011, 11:54 AM
tramadol = lame.

Maybe, but it can be a lifesaver nonetheless.


Doc

ausativa
08-25-2011, 11:55 AM
that is true, but it is a fine line between lifesaver and seizure.

SeVeN
08-25-2011, 12:00 PM
that is true, but it is a fine line between lifesaver and seizure.

Are you tweaking? I swear ever single thread has you as the last one replied for two pages lol

ausativa
08-25-2011, 12:10 PM
nope, just bored.

blinky89
08-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Have you experienced tramadol, Dutch? If so, what comparison would you make with Tapentadol's effects?


Doc

ive taken both....fairly experienced with trams.

even though from what ive read, that tramadol and tapentadol are related, they have different feels. its really hard to explain. tapentadol has an opi feel/buzz to it at lower doses (100-150 mgs) and the other effects of 'speediness' ect that are related to tramadol arent really as issue.

now this would be great for someone that has a very low opi tolerance...however, when taking higher doses (200mgs +) the speedy effects drown out the opi effects which is kinda unpleasant.

i wish i could be a little more specific about how the two contrast as far as how they feel, but i think if you know the kind of feeling that trams produce it higher doses, then youll know what im talking about. basically, (with an opi tolly) taking enough tapentadol to feel the opi buzz, would involve too much of the unpleasant speedy effects to enjoy it.

i hope this kinda makes a little bit of sense

Akhkharu
08-26-2011, 05:42 PM
ive taken it. background info: tramadol and codeine dont effect me at all because of something about the CYP-2D6. so anyways, i have no idea what tramadol feels like.

i would describe the buzz as a a decent opiate buzz along with making me kind of hyper. not adderall hyper, more like i drank a red bull hyper. oh, my dosage was 400mgs and i have a pretty high tolerance. it takes me around 100mgs of iv morphine to get a decent nod.

doctor diesel
08-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Okay guys, I'm getting the picture. Thanks.




Doc

jill
08-26-2011, 05:53 PM
August 26, 2011 — The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved tapentadol extended release (Nucynta, Janssen Pharmaceuticals) for moderate to severe chronic pain.

The drug, already approved (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/584149) for acute pain, has now been given the okay for long-term use, the company announced today. In Europe, tapentadol is marketed as Palexia.


The drug is a centrally acting synthetic analgesic. The oral mu-opioid agonist is taken twice daily in adults when a continuous, around-the-clock analgesic is needed for an extended period of time. Tapentadol extended release is not intended for use on an as-needed basis.


It is classified as schedule II of the Controlled Substances Act and carries risks for abuse similar to those of other opioids. Working with the FDA, Janssen has developed a risk evaluation and mitigation strategy for tapentadol.


The strategy, which is similar to those developed for other medications in this category, is designed to educate prescribers about the potential for abuse, addiction, and overdose.
Janssen says it also plans to monitor for inappropriate use of its products.
Chronic pain is the most common cause of long-term disability; almost one third of Americans will reportedly experience chronic pain at some point in their lives.
Despite the treatments available, the American Pain Society says additional options are still needed to help patients manage their pain.


"Chronic pain is difficult to manage, and even with the treatments available today, it can be a challenge to balance pain relief with a patient's ability to tolerate the medicine," Sunil Panchal, MD, president of the National Institute of Pain, said in a news release. "People with chronic pain will continue to need additional options, so an approval like this is welcome news for this community and the people who suffer from this often debilitating condition."


The most common adverse reactions, appearing in at least 10% of patients, were nausea, constipation, headache, dizziness, and somnolence.
Life-Threatening Serotonin Syndrome
Respiratory depression is the primary risk for mu-opioid agonists. They can also raise cerebrospinal fluid pressure and should not be used in patients who may be susceptible to the effects, such as those with evidence of head injury and increased intracranial pressure.
Tapentadol extended release has not been evaluated in patients with a predisposition to a seizure disorder.


The product is also contraindicated in patients who are receiving monoamine oxidase inhibitors or who have taken them within the last 14 days because of potential additive effects on norepinephrine levels, which may result in adverse cardiovascular events.
Cases of life-threatening serotonin syndrome have been reported with the concurrent use of tapentadol and serotonergic drugs.

This includes serotonin reuptake inhibitors; serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors; tricyclic antidepressants; triptans; drugs that affect the serotonergic neurotransmitter system, such as mirtazapine, trazodone, and tramadol; and drugs that impair metabolism of serotonin.
Complete product information is available online (http://nucynta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/nucyntaer-pi.pdf).