Kick without withdrawls

[josh00]

I mean Ibogaine. Dont know what ibogaine is?
http://www.ibogaineclinics.com

[CUBErt]

Interesting, I didn't know that. I thought they meant that the trips were profound in such a way that it helped deal with mental cravings and turn over a new leaf. I didn't know that it helps with physical symptoms

[nick]

Ibo has been discussed here recently.I think Jacky said he was going to try it in Mexico and hopefully report back.I'm still very interested and am putting feelers out for some in London.

[josh00]

Im not familair with any treatment centers in London, just Canada and Mexico. Just be wary of under-ground treatments that offer no medical screening as ibogaine is know to be hard on the heart and liver.

[orangejuice]

my question is what can ibogaine do for us in the U.S.?? its illegal here right?

[josh00]

Yes, ibogaine is illegal in the U.S. All treatments are done elsewhere. Underground illeagl treatments can be dangerous as most do not have medical pre-screening pior to ingesting the ibogaine. Ibogaine will slow down your heart rate and put stress on the liver, so it important to have tests such as an EKG.

[orangejuice]

figures, a magic bullet is availible, but its illegal and we would have to travel 1000s of miles to get it, and then probably pay an outrageous price. Kinda like the anesthesia assisted detox with all that expense. I mean what the fuck is it any good if the methods of easiest and best recovery are not made availible to us.. that pisses me off.

[Opiyum]

The stuff is very dangerous and sometimes does not work. Right?

[Woods]

The stuff is very dangerous and sometimes does not work. Right?

That's what they want you to think. Lots of things in life are dangerous, but nothing I've read about it suggests that it's any more dangerous then, say, a weekend of binge drinking.

As for not working all the time, if you do a study where something is 100% effective, then you've done it wrong. Nothing is 100% effective, of course it doesn't always work. Some people are just drawn to opiates, and nothing can rend them asunder. Still, from what I’ve read it’s pretty effective, certainly more effective then any of that NA shit.

[Canis aureus]

Yaeh, what I have read and study, it really is effective. tested it once: made all WD's standable, except diarrhea. I didn't understand why I had diarrhea: one should have.

But what was best, was that I was able to do things, I wasn't in bed (like I usuall be all the time when WD'ing)

[shaunclo]

The stuff is very dangerous and sometimes does not work. Right?

Yes Opi, Ibogaine could be very dangerous to certain individuals, but thats pretty much a rule of thumb for everything and anything though. I mean there are people that could die from an allergic reaction from just eating some good ol fresh broccoli, so I guess anything could be considered dangerous.

And yes, to answer the 2nd part of your Q also......it doesnt always work. Personally, I have read nearly every article and or paper ever written on Ibogaine, and I sincerely believe that once someone can do a thorough and in depth study on this stuff involving atleast a couple of hundred junkies. ($$but whos gonna put forth the money that it would take to do such an experiment$$)

I think if you are truly ready and willing and just fuckin fed up with the whole junky life-style, and truly feel like you are ready for a change of body and mind.......then I serioulsy think that Ibogaine is going to put to bed methadone and even suboxone/subutex for a good amount of people.

I think I also remember Jacky talking about maybe giving it a try in the near future. I dont think there would be a better test subject than good ol Jacky.

So in my humble words, I think Ibogaine is going to slowly become the next craze. But I also think that it is only for those who are mentally willing and open-minded. You have to be completely honest with yourself about your addiction and want to do it for the right reasons for it to really work.

[Opiyum]

I guess what im trying to remember is how dangerous it is. I wonder if there are any stats out there on how many people have died due to it. I would assume that it hasnt been around long enough for the science world to say whether the benefit is worth the risk. I wonder if the trouble has been mostly due to malpractice and what not.
If there are only a few sources (in my case) that state any sort of opinion then I guess its in your best intrest to not come to any conclusions.

just eating some good ol fresh broccoli, so I guess anything could be considered dangerous.

I hate to spread the butter over so much of the bread in these kind of cases but with the whole spinach thing going on right now, and the scallion thing a few years ago that ended Chi-Chi's forever, your words have some merit.
It's crazy the allergies soem people have. People order food without Gluten due to allergies and peanuts, butter, wheat, SALT!!! (I didnt believe it was possible but people(apparently) can be alletrgic to rocks)....what were we talking about?....anyway its good to be back.

Stealthily removing spinach from your artichoke dip on a nightly basis,
-OPIYUM

[chemboy7]

^^^Yeah people can have some wierd allergies. I, myself, am allergic to chocolate. I never used to be then one day I broke out something fierce and couldn't figure out why. Pressing firmly on the rash made it go white then back to red so I knew it was something that I had taken internally that was doing it to me, not something that just came into contact with my skin. It was horrible, for just under 6 months all I ate was unseasoned hamburger, alone... no sauce, no bread, no side dish. Everyday I would eat one more thing (preferably something with 1 ingredient only) waiting to for a rash to develop so I could figure out what the hell I was allergic to... it sucked; I grew to dispise hamburger. Anyway, one day I was about fed up with it and ate a few bags of M&Ms. I broke out shortly after and knew the cause. So you can acquire an allergy too, you don't have to be born with it.

[shaunclo]

one day I was about fed up with it and ate a few bags of M&Ms. I broke out shortly after and knew the cause. So you can acquire an allergy too, you don't have to be born with it.


Wow Chemboy, I guess you still learn something new every day. I had no idea whatsoever that allergies could be acquired like a rash or a sickness, I thought you were either born with them, or you werent.

Yo Chem, if you can acquire an allergie, does that mean that you can lose one over time also then? What I mean is that if you can pretty much catch an allergie, can you get pretty much get over one too? Pretty crazy stuff man.....

[chemboy7]

Wow Chemboy, I guess you still learn something new every day. I had no idea whatsoever that allergies could be acquired like a rash or a sickness, I thought you were either born with them, or you werent.

Yo Chem, if you can acquire an allergie, does that mean that you can lose one over time also then? What I mean is that if you can pretty much catch an allergie, can you get pretty much get over one too? Pretty crazy stuff man.....

You know, I have no idea. I start fall semester bright and early tomarrow morning though so I guess I start out with a question for the professor. I assume not, then again I always assumed that you were either allergic at birth or not. I was young at the time (12 or 13 I believe) and it was around Halloween when it happened, I had always chalked it up to going overboard with the candy; that's pure speculation on my part though.

I can eat small amounts of chocolate and be fine now, the worst I have ever got from it was hives really... never messed me up very bad. I guess that allergic reactions to chocolate are not that uncommon, although I have never met anyone else that was.

[Hammilton]

I thought the biggest problem with getting Ibogaine approved was that it's CI with heroin and LSD making it super hard to get studies approved or even funded. I'm sure someone would like to though. Think about the $$ made by Suboxone's manufacturer, there's big money in addiction treatment. Hell, I'd be willing to have the worst trip of my life if I could kick w/o withdrawals.

It'd be worth the mental anguish in a couple ways. Who woudln't want to get around being dope sick??

Hammilton

[jacky]

I think it is the theraputic use of ibogaine that can actually be just as dangerous as any "underground" use. In my opinion not enough research has been done really to effectevily screen people for any health problems except maybe heart problems/high blood pressure...

people think they have to use this whopping dose of ibogaine to get well....I dont think may be the case, if the metabolites of iboga alkaloids are responsible partly or wholey for the action or reducing/abating withdrawl perhaps smaller, multi day doses could be used to slowly build up these metabolites. the drug POTENTIATES other opiates, so perhaps small stimulant doses of ibogaine could be used slowly to reduce opiate dosage while the actual iboga dose doesnt need to be increased..sorta how I think the "catuama" extract could be used.

of course there is more to iboga/ibogaine that just the physical aspects, perhaps some people need that psychedelic experience to get well, but I also know that many addicts would not want to go through a psychedelic experience for maybe even years after getting clean, so perhaps lower doses might be beneficial for these people.

I dont think a "crappy" little clinic with 1 or 2 medical doctors is going to insure you that your ibogaine dose isnt too much, I would look for any situation near a REAL hospital, I know that there are some good clinic out there, but many of them appear to me to literally RAPE addicts for the price of treatment. there is NO WAY, that I am going to be able to afford treatment in exotic locations that approaches 10,000$. the amount of ibogaine/iboga provided surely wouldnt cost a person more than 1000$?

if there are experts on ibogaine that have actually taken the material themselves, then show me the way, alot of people that are involved with these clinic I imagine havnt touched the material themselves?

I am still amazed that I dont here more reports from canada on this amazing plant, or anywhere else the material is still legal (UK) and people enjoy a standard of living that makes this material somewhat affordable. the material in low doses is a stimulant, in low doses the material can potentiate opiates, and in higher doses becomes a trance inducing and psychedelic compound...what more would you ask of a plant?

[dorje]

I'd ask the plant for a little slack. This isn't just a psychedelic Oh my the clouds are beautiful, this is an OhhhNoooooo the damn clouds are out to get me...They have claws...My face is gone...Why does God hate me ?? What can it all mean psychedelic.
If you want to be frightened forever you can pay 10,000 buckeroos. The question is can they isolate the WD suppresing metabolite from the jarhammer psychedelic effects.

[jacky]

might be all in the dose.....
break a psychedelic dose up and take it over 7 days, dosing 3 times a day........perhaps this would create more of a stimulant effect, and while the metabolites build up over the 5 days, the daily opiate dose could be dropped comfortably as iboga potentiates opiates. on the 5th day the opiates would be completely stopped, and for the remaining 2 days the iboga dose could be increased/decreased as needed....
on the 7th day MAYBE just perhaps, the person would have enough metabolic products in their bloodstream to not experience extreme withdrawl.........
or perhaps I am full of shit, and I just dont know it yet.

I have tried a few tabernaemontana species mixed with opiates, t. divaricata contains some compounds that might aid opiate withdrawl....taberneamontana crass does as well, and also contains a small amount of ibogaine....
tabernaemontana pacysiphon contains opioid alkaloids similiar to those found in picralima nitida
I have heard one report that picralima nitida alkaloids helped a person withdrawl from opiates, this plant is in the same genus as tabernaemontana/tabernanthe iboga, the apocyneacea....

chewing t.divaricata roots didnt taste bad, and I swear after 45 minutes the combination with morphine put me to sleep quickly.

[dorje]

Your method has merit. I do know there was some research attempting to isolate the WD stopping alkaloids. My bias is William Burroughs bias-if it slows biologic time-it has to be paid back in interest (Wd's)( so what helps withdrawals generally has it's own hook. Heroin as a "cure" for morphinism or the more current methadone as a :cure" for heroin addiction and the done withdrawal is from hell

[nick]

I investigated Ibogaine here in the UK.My significant other introduced me to a friend of hers who cowrote the Ibogaine paper John Doe posted.She said it would cost £250 for just the ibogaine never mind the medical help required.For this money I could get a 1/4 ounce of junk.
Still if my doc stiffs me tomorrow I'm going to go for it and I'll let you all know.

[vaxn8]

Wow Chemboy, I guess you still learn something new every day. I had no idea whatsoever that allergies could be acquired like a rash or a sickness, I thought you were either born with them, or you werent.

Yo Chem, if you can acquire an allergie, does that mean that you can lose one over time also then? What I mean is that if you can pretty much catch an allergie, can you get pretty much get over one too? Pretty crazy stuff man.....


Shaunclo- the type of allergies that you can "catch" are sensitization reactions. For example, people who use latex gloves and other latex products can develop a sensitivity after repeated exposure to it. Also happens with a lot of the chemicals use in photo processing/printing.

Some people do almost recover from old allergies - it really isn't understood exactly what is happening. In people who take allergy shots and "recover" it is assumed the injections lead to an innate immunity. Personally, I used to be severly allergic to cats, couldn't breathe if one was in the room. After living with some for awhile, I can now be around them without serious consequences.

Back to the Ibo- I'm not sure what I think of it. It really sounds too good to be true. I know I wouldn't go to a different country to try it. I wouldn't trust a clinic with something like this, but that's just my opinion.