"baltushka"?

[Import]

A recent thread on homeless kids in odessa links to a photo album surrounding these children.

Several of them are injecting a drug known as "baltushka". To make it, they combine ephedrine with warm water, vinegar, and sodium permanganate.

I was wondering if any chem minded folks could speculate on whether this process might yield some other amphetamine/phenethylamine, or if it would simply end up as an unchanged mixture of these ingredients.

Seems as though SOMETHING must be better about it than simply shooting ephedrine... I'm sure many of these kids have tried shooting pure ephedrine at one point or another when they couldn't get all of the supplies needed for "baltushka". Seems as if the mixture was no better than the ephedrine, they wouldn't bother with it???

[Spork]

It yields methcathinone, the oxidation product of ephedrine. Unfortunately the leftover manganese causes parkinsons.

Methcathinone is less polar than ephedrine so crosses the BBB and produces a (short lived due to the ketone being readily reduced to an alcohol) high compared to methamphetamine, which has no polar group on the beta carbon.

[Import]

It yields methcathinone, the oxidation product of ephedrine. Unfortunately the leftover manganese causes parkinsons.

Methcathinone is less polar than ephedrine so crosses the BBB and produces a (short lived due to the ketone being readily reduced to an alcohol) high compared to methamphetamine, which has no polar group on the beta carbon.

I understand that the permanganate is the oxidizer, but what is the vinegar for?

Also, it looks like they were cooking this stuff in the street. Don't you need refrigeration and time to make methcathinone?

[methadoniac1972]

and i thought bath salt was bad stuff...wow a lil desperate for a fix..id even say no that drug.....thats sayin a LOT!

[borohydride]

I understand that the permanganate is the oxidizer, but what is the vinegar for?

The oxidation power of MnO4 is pH dependent - I assume it's to prevent over-oxidation.

[Larkin]

and i thought bath salt was bad stuff...wow a lil desperate for a fix..id even say no that drug.....thats sayin a LOT!

a lot of bath salts are a form of methcathinone

[Spork]

Yeah and a lot fo oxycodone is a form of morphine, except not really.

[ImChipperToday]

a lot of bath salts are a form of methcathinone

I think he was more worried about the "synth" process, or rather whatever was leftover in their concoction, than the methcathinone itself.

[Spork]

Fuck yeah, KMnO4 + acetic acid has to be so good for the soul.

[Tony]

To the Group,

It is truly a sad state of affairs when the young people of the world ( the
USA included, ) are so desperate to escape their realities, chemically or
otherwise, that they are willing to risk everything in the process. Even worse
is the fact that god given plants that would meet these needs are not only being
made unavailable, the distribution of same is the basis of the militarization
and profiteering of a huge and growing "punishing class of people that have at
their disposal the means to transfer wealth in amounts heretofore unheard of to
the Military, Industrial, Punishing class......

It is happening folks, I am not chicken little. Why are shows like "Cops", "Lock Up "
" Hard Time '' and and many many more almost the only shows on the tube? It is because
if you tell a lie big enough and long enough, that lie will soon sound credible? I think so!
I have been awaiting and making light of an upcoming show about " Neighborhood Prisons!''
The premise being that it would make more sense to build the new prisons in the hoods the
majority of folks already live in! That way. the good kids can have the jobs as the prison
guards and what the Punishers call the smart kids can get the jobs as Nurses and Medical
health professionals that are needed to " help " the bad eggs reeducated themselves and
become productive members of society!

Well I have been watching a show that is being filmed on the Nat Geo channel right in our great state of Texas! And man, it ain't far from my truth! They had guys and gals on all kinds
of cool equipment saving our youth from the evil Narco Gangs> The equipment alone is something to really be proud of! Everything from 3 wheelers to Land Rovers and Boats and
Helicopters and Planes and Drones and on an on........ I kept hearing that the night vision
equipment or a tip of from a concerned citizen ( a CI ) cause all the real jobs are for the white guys with money and connections, have spotted a group of Narco Terrorists! Yes, in
our own borders! I am talking Texas, New Mexico, Arizona even California! Anyway, sorry I
get so excited! Who can blame me! They always talk about how the Terrorists are many
times heavily armed and will fight to the death to protect the big profits from the poisons
they are bring over. Even that if no drugs are involved ( very unlikely due to the agents )
that the possibility exists that human Traffickers can have up to 100 illegals they have
overcharged to bring over the borders to make a better life for themselves and or families.
To bad they do not watch TV, if they did they could see all that all the good jobs went to
other countries!

Anyway, excuse me for getting over excited! It is just so cutting edge! Seems a little bit
hyped though. Honestly I must have watched at least 10 programs. And all I have ever seen
is the ICE, BP, Local Police Forces and many other Po Po and Alphabet boys do is one of the following variations on the same theme... They swoop, down or somehow get to where they
get the drop on the Narco Terrorists or Human Slaves..... They they get real close to catching them, we are always reminded why the heavy guns must be pulled and ready to use every time. Same reason every time too. That because of the huge profits to be made the Narcos will many time shoot first at the Agents cause of all the money at stake. Also
the Human Traffickers the same... In every case the good guys either catch the bad guys
or at least ( more often ) find the Drugs that they are bring over to poison our kids. It is always the same! The Drugs are 70 pound backpacks of Marijuana! They usually drop the
load off then run back to the Mexican side to try again the next day or whenever. The good
guys have figured out that the price for being the Mule is almost always the same! 80 Bucks! Yes, that's one American Twenty and the balance in Pesos. I have never seen any shots fired by the Narcos. ( I think most guns cost more than US 80.00 bucks! Also usually
the Human Traffickers are almost never caught. They leave the poor saps to get pinched and they head back to the Border!

To be fair I have seen some Coke and Heroin does get found being smuggled over through
the Check Points. I have never seen an Agent guy or Gal get shot at or even drown down
on! But rest assured! If that ever happens we ain't going be in no Mexican standoff!

We could start to build the prisons closer to the Border! One day all will be well! Badges
we don't need no stinking Badges!

And The Beat Goes On.......

Peace,

Tony