Morphine -> heroin without anhydride

[Woods]

I’ve been thinking about the creation of heroin from morphine using the oh so easy to get acetic acid instead of the oh so watched acetic anhydride for a while, and according to the search engine, so have many of you. In all the threads proposing the creation of some form of acetylated morphine without the anhydride, the conclusion is quickly reached that it cannot be done, but I’m not entirely sure that’s the case.

Granted I’m not exactly a chemist, and I only have a very small amount of university level organic chemistry under my belt, but I’ve performed similar esterification reactions successfully using only the carboxylic acid, and not the anhydride, and I don’t see why the same couldn’t be done here.

Now, for those who don’t know, esterification is the bonding of a carboxylic acid with an alcohol. In the case of heroin, the acid is acetic acid, and the alcohol is morphine (it seems weird, but thanks to its two hydroxyl groups, in this reaction morphine acts as an alcohol). This is the process used to make many artificial flavouring agents, and I used a wide range of industrial alcohols and carboxylic acids, many of which smelled horrid, one of which (sec-butanol) smelled a bit like rotting flesh, to create mint, rum, and various fruit flavourings.

Of course, in much the same way that drugs, alcohol, the right music, and/or a highly overpriced meal are often required to produce coupling between two people who would otherwise not, just adding a carboxylic acid to an alcohol isn’t going to give you anything but a mixture, unless you do something to catalyze the reaction. Heat is a must, but still you need something else. Technically the reaction is a dehydration reaction, which means that two or more molecules are bonded together while a water molecule is stripped from between them (being formed from the hydroxyl(OH) of the alcohol and a hydrogen on the end of the carboxylic acid). Sulphuric acid is usually used as a catalyst in dehydration reactions, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t work for morphineà heroin. Because of its catalytic nature, you don’t need a great deal of sulphuric acid, a few drops of already dilute acid was all I ever used, and things always turned out nicely.

So why do people use anhydride? Well, that’s just another way to do it. Acetic anhydride is created by heating acetic acid until it goes through a dehydration reaction itself, with two acid molecules bonding, and a water molecule being discarded. When mixed with water the anhydride breaks down into a molecule of acetic acid, and an acetate ion (not sure if it’s an ion, but sounds good enough). The acetate isn’t stable and wants to bond with something, so no catalyst is required, Just two ways of doing the same thing.

Oh, and if you’re thinking about trying to make your own acetic anhydride, forget it. It’s far safer to try and cook meth while drunk on turpentine. You need to heat acetic acid to about 800 degrees for the dehydration reaction to occur, and acetic anhydride is quite flammable, which means you don’t even need a spark to set it off, just oxygen in the air in the reaction vessel.

So, am I a useful little noob, or am I going to get chewed out by someone with more chemistry knowledge then I? I suppose only time will tell.

[superman]

i am not sure just what you're suggesting. if you want H you're gonna need anhydride no matter what. the anhydride is NOT manufactured from acetic acid, it's the other way around

[robojunkie]

Interesting idea, but...

The tertiary piperidyl nitrogen would be protonated by the catalytic sulfuric acid before any formation of a protonated acetic acid group (hence water leaving group) The reaction of an acid and an alcohol catalyzed by strong acid is usually most effective with aliphatic acids and alcohols, ie no other functional groups. Also you would most likely protonate the double bond, though this would be reversible in anhydrous conditions. If excess strong acid is used you may end up protonating the allylic 3-OH which may isomerize the double bond into the 2 position. So despite all this lets say some of the acetic acid was activated, the competing reactions would undoubltedly give you an unresolvable mixture of tar (not the good kind!) AA is a very clean reaction that doesn't require any chromatography/distillation or really anything other than hydrolysis and extraction. All the chem notwithstanding the biggest reason I'll say this won't work is that no one I'm aware of has ever reported this anywhere in decades even without the theoretical considerations.

You are right though that acetic anhydride is commonly manufactured via the "ceramic" catalyzed reaction, but like you said this is not practical. The only alternative that would probably work would be the use of acetyl chloride which is actually more active as an acylating agent than aa. And if too active, ac + acetic acid = acetic anhydride. Acetyl chloride is easily made though with chlorinating agents and such. Wish I could say it would work, but...

Not to mention that any OTC acetic acid won't be glacial acetic acid and it you have other access, problem solved anyway.

[devilsdrug]

what a bunch of total horseshit this thread is , speculation equals horseshit , action takes the cake , i dont really mean it but put up or shut up

[Woods]

The tertiary piperidyl nitrogen would be protonated by the catalytic sulfuric acid before any formation of a protonated acetic acid group (hence water leaving group) The reaction of an acid and an alcohol catalyzed by strong acid is usually most effective with aliphatic acids and alcohols, ie no other functional groups. Also you would most likely protonate the double bond, though this would be reversible in anhydrous conditions. If excess strong acid is used you may end up protonating the allylic 3-OH which may isomerize the double bond into the 2 position. So despite all this lets say some of the acetic acid was activated, the competing reactions would undoubltedly give you an unresolvable mixture of tar (not the good kind!) AA is a very clean reaction that doesn't require any chromatography/distillation or really anything other than hydrolysis and extraction. All the chem notwithstanding the biggest reason I'll say this won't work is that no one I'm aware of has ever reported this anywhere in decades even without the theoretical considerations.


Yea, I figured there'd be some sort of issue like that. Oh well.

[poppypyro]

Anhydride means "no water" acetic acid that is so concentrated is has no water in it. Vinegar is very very dilute acetic acid. I think what you mean is to try using glacial acetic acid (strong acetic acid but not 100%) which I think is possible it's just has a longer reaction time or needs to be heated I think) but glacial acetic acid is as hard to come by as acetic anhydride so why not go all the way and get some from a chem supplier.

[Woods]

Anhydride means "no water" acetic acid that is so concentrated is has no water in it. Vinegar is very very dilute acetic acid. I think what you mean is to try using glacial acetic acid (strong acetic acid but not 100%) which I think is possible it's just has a longer reaction time or needs to be heated I think) but glacial acetic acid is as hard to come by as acetic anhydride so why not go all the way and get some from a chem supplier.

Acetic anhydride isn’t just acetic acid without water. Read my above post or do a google search.

[zombiewoof23]

Acetic anhydride isn’t just acetic acid without water. Read my above post or do a google search.


You ever stuck any acetic anhydride up your butt? Did the benzo's work out alright fer ya?

[chemboy7]

Acetic anhydride isn’t just acetic acid without water. Read my above post or do a google search.


Anhydride - A compound formed by the removing of water from a more complex compound.

[orangejuice]

You ever stuck any acetic anhydride up your butt? Did the benzo's work out alright fer ya?


:jumping-s BBBBUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRNNNNNNN!!!:jumping-s

lol. i had to. funny shit.

[Woods]

Anhydride - A compound formed by the removing of water from a more complex compound.

Yep, that's true. I assume you're backing up what I just said.

[superman]

"Acetic anhydride isn’t just acetic acid without water. Read my above post or do a google search."
"Anhydride - A compound formed by the removing of water from a more complex compound."

looks to me like he's saying you're wrong, not backing you up. and he's right, sorry to say

[Woods]

Nope, I'm right, he's wrong, and so are you. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but at the same time, you should try to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you jump into an argument.


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3792/aceticacid2dskeletaljo6.png This is acetic acid


http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9711/aceticanhydride2dskeletaleu9.png This is acetic anhydride


Your confusion stems from taking a simplistic view of the phrase "removing water." In this case, the anhydride is formed through a dehydration reaction, as you can see, two acetic acid molecules are bonded, and in the process an H2O molecule is removed.

I hope you understand what I'm talking about now. Some days I think it would be nice to be a teacher, I really do like helping people learn new things.

[chemboy7]

Your getting into a pissing contest over semantics now. It is still a compound that is formed by the removal of water from another... what do you think a dehydration reaction is? The removal of H2O right? Even though two molecules of Acetic Acid are bonded together in the process doesn't change the fact that Anhydride means removal of water. I wrote what I wrote in response to your post because you were half-assedly cutting down poppypyro for stating this fact. So no, I was not wrong... I was simply defining the term Anhdride; and I wouldn't have had to do that if you hadn't been an ass in the first place. Smugness is not a good quality in a teacher BTW, don't quit your day job.

[Woods]

Your getting into a pissing contest over semantics now. It is still a compound that is formed by the removal of water from another... what do you think a dehydration reaction is? The removal of H2O right? Even though two molecules of Acetic Acid are bonded together in the process doesn't change the fact that Anhydride means removal of water. I wrote what I wrote in response to your post because you were half-assedly cutting down poppypyro for stating this fact. So no, I was not wrong... I was simply defining the term Anhdride; and I wouldn't have had to do that if you hadn't been an ass in the first place. Smugness is not a good quality in a teacher BTW, don't quit your day job.

First, I didn’t “half-assedly [cut] down poppypyro,” I just corrected him, there’s a difference. There’s nothing wrong with trying to stop people from being misinformed.

Second, I am sorry that I said you were wrong, but it wasn’t me who misinterpreted you, it was superman who didn’t know what the hell he was talking about, and used you to back him up by stating that what you said meant something it totally didn‘t. If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at him.

And yea, maybe I did start to get a little pissy once superman started to argue with me about something he clearly didn’t understand, but can you blame me for that? Someone who thinks they’re right all the time and isn’t willing to learn is by definition not only a very poor student, but not a student at all, so don’t denigrate my teaching skills by judging them with respect to how I deal with someone like that.

[superman]

"Nope, I'm right, he's wrong, and so are you. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but at the same time, you should try to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you jump into an argument."

haha, i know you're having trouble digesting this, but you can't consider every azeotrope to be a whole new molecule. sure it is structurally different, and that difference is precisely why boiling will not give you anhydrous. go read about azeotropes and you'll understand why I insist on correcting you..... But clearly, i don't understand any of this, my apologies for insulting your venerable teaching skills :)

[devilsdrug]

who gives a flyin fuk u aint makin any h any time soon without the anhydride

[chemboy7]

"Nope, I'm right, he's wrong, and so are you. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but at the same time, you should try to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you jump into an argument."

haha, i know you're having trouble digesting this, but you can't consider every azeotrope to be a whole new molecule. sure it is structurally different, and that difference is precisely why boiling will not give you anhydrous. go read about azeotropes and you'll understand why I insist on correcting you..... But clearly, i don't understand any of this, my apologies for insulting your venerable teaching skills :)

Man, it's becomming more and more obvious that this guy's gotta have the last word on everything why egg him on? Now he's gonna be forced to come back here and learn us a lesson with his superior teaching skills. I bet I get the dunce cap. Hahaha

[antony]

You're giving my cat a headache.
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Sidebox-Kitten-Thinks-R.article.jpg

[Woods]

"Nope, I'm right, he's wrong, and so are you. I'm sorry for being so blunt, but at the same time, you should try to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before you jump into an argument."

haha, i know you're having trouble digesting this, but you can't consider every azeotrope to be a whole new molecule. sure it is structurally different, and that difference is precisely why boiling will not give you anhydrous. go read about azeotropes and you'll understand why I insist on correcting you..... But clearly, i don't understand any of this, my apologies for insulting your venerable teaching skills :)

Where is the azeotrope? Please try to make some sense. I know what an azeotrope is, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

[orangejuice]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shittttttttttttt MY Head hurts fuck!
chill the fuck out.
cant we all just get along

[HeidiW]

Woods, what's with all the hostility? Every post you submit is designed to belittle, annoy, anger, etc. Do you have it in you to be polite for a change?

[Woods]

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. They're alternating between insulting me and speaking total nonsense and I'm supposed to sit back and take it.

[Opiyum]

I knew when I clicked on this thread it was gonna be a bunch of bullshit mostly if not all on the end of Mr. Woods. It's funny all in all but your still as irriatating as ever and now you think you know more than those who are going to school specifically for this kind of thing.
There must be something in the water up there in Vancouver.
I hear there are way cooler forums than this one Woods. These guys are all losers here. Why dont you leave and go find a better forum and I'll be right behind. Ill meet you there in five minutes or so. I promise.

[Opiyum]

I do have some respect for you in the way that you are able to take so much shit from every single person that you come in contact with and yet you keep on keepin on. Not really in a good way seeing that all you keep on doing is pissing more and more people off but hey you dont need people right? Your a dope fiend thats all you need is your dope. Which raises another question. How do you hang onto your connections? Dealers love talking about how stupid their custys are to other custys and I bet you are one of your dealers favorite subjects.

[chemboy7]

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. They're alternating between insulting me and speaking total nonsense and I'm supposed to sit back and take it.

Look Wood's, there is no reason to play the victim here. I got no problem with you; I think your something of an asshole, but I'm a freindly guy... I like everybody. It is in that spirit of freindliness that I'll take the time to tell you that it is not this thread specifically that people are forming unsavory opinions of you; it's your whole arrogant aura around the forum in general. I used the word "smug" before, and I think it fits... I have a feeling your a bluelighter right? Just an assumption. That's not really how we do things here, this is more like a family. You can "correct" someone, as you put it, without being an ass.

[antony]

I have a feeling your a bluelighter right? Just an assumption. .

sounds about right.

[Woods]

I haven’t done one single thing to show myself a arrogant. I haven’t done one single thing to show myself as an asshole. Search the rest of my posts,. I do nothing but contribute. I might not be the best member, but I’m good enough, and I don’t deserve the treatment that I’m getting here.

[Opiyum]

Ah come on now bud you earned it. Stop being so modest.

[Woods]

How? What have I done? Point to one specific thing.

[chemboy7]

How? What have I done? Point to one specific thing.

I really did hope this would all end, it is getting pretty old now, but I just couldn't turn down the challenge you tossed out. I took the time to peruse through all of your post so I could show you what I meant by your arrogant arua, although I couldn't choose which one post to use so I went ahead and quoted a few for you.

Perhaps it would be something not totally moronic to consider if you cwe’d them first. Otherwise, not (quite literally) on your life.

Will you please stop acting like a child?

Poppy Tea?
Powdered Titmice?
Popping Toads?

Why should I expect that? This isn’t a fucking pokemon discussion board, it’s a board populated by adults, discussing adult subject matter.

The internet is full of immaturity. Some of it, like Maddox’s site is pretty funny, but there’s a difference between that and childish flaming on a message board about serious content, such as this. Yes, I’m a noob with less then 40 posts, and I therefore have no legitimate right to tell any of you how to run your site. But it’s easy enough to see what you guys want this site to be, and it’s plane as day that childish crap the response I got to my question is virtually the antithesis of the purpose of this board.

The fuck? Do you know what a joke is?

I bet in elementary school you were one of those weak toadies who followed bullies around, laughing at kids getting the shit kicked out of them, even though without the bully you’d be completely defenceless against said kid his ass beat.

And just to make it clear where that analogy stops, Just being a jerk and insulting people for no reason except to make yourself feel better isn’t exactly the same as beating them up. One requires a measure of strength, the other no discernable skill whatsoever


I decided to take a light hearted approach to asking a question that many would be to embarrassed to ask, and prefaced it the way I did, the reputation thing, because I know that a lot of closed minded and ignorant individuals might feel as if there was anything whatsoever wrong with what I said, or the concept of rectal administration in general. Thank you for proving my point.


I’d like to make it perfectly clear that I’m not flaming you here in any way, just laying out the facts as they are. Of course I’m not going to demand an apology, as that would be very uncanadian of me, but if you want to do the right thing a PM would be an appropriate way of doing it, without losing face in front of your buddies.


You couldn’t handle your drugs, you were a pathetic lowlife. A worthless pustule on the rectum of drug use that gave us all a bad name. Either that or maybe you never were a user, which would make sense given how little you know about anything related to drugs.

The details don’t make a difference, an imbecile who begs only the question whether he is a failure or merely a fraud, is trying to talk to the regular members of a forum as an equal, with predictably mind numbing results.

You’re like Bill O’Reilly or Senator McCarthy, you spew as ,much garbage as you can, and quickly retreated to let people with a better understanding of the situation take over its discussion. You just set the initial tone and provide reinforcements to your cause whenever the conversation begins to turn to something the least bit rational or into an intelligent discussion, you break out the crap personal story stuff and turn everything into a drug issue

Finally, since you obviously know absolutely nothing about what you’re taking about, I would ask you to shut your useless noise hole. Just use it as God intended, shoving food down it when you’re rejected by every human being and most animals, because they can sense your desperation and pathetic ness a ile away.
^^^ I think this last one here is my favorite!

[zombiewoof23]

How? What have I done? Point to one specific thing.

Hey! Do you know what you are?

You're an asshole!

An ASSHOLE!



Some of you might not agree

'Cause you probably likes a lot of misery

But think a while and you will see...

Broken hearts are for assholes

Broken hearts are for assholes

Are you an asshole?

Broken hearts are for assholes

Are you an asshole too?

Whatcha gonna do, 'cause you're an asshole.. .

Grab the benzo and .....

Ram it, ram it, ram it

Ram it up yer poop chute

[devilsdrug]

yee fukkin haw excellent job in research chem

[Woods]

I’d like to preface this by sating that there are some cool people here, you know who you are and need no introduction. Then there are the cocksuckers who take pleasure in making me feel like shit. Pain for pain’s sake.

What? It was late, I was high, and it seemed like an interesting idea at the time. What I’ve said here may show that my knowledge of opiate chemistry isn’t terrific, but it does show that it’s better then 90% of those of who are attacking me.

If any of you worthless pieces of shit (this only applies to those who have been randomly and unprovoked attacking me) took a little time out of your lives, and it’s obvious that you’re not doing anything with them except not dying fast enough, you’d see that I’m really a pretty nice guy.

I do, however, get easily depressed, and I’ve been hurt and fucked around a lot recently, and by recently I mean the last couple of decades of my life (I‘m only 21). What fucking right do any of you have to hurt and belittle me when all I try to do is be a decent, kind, caring, nurturing person. I give and I give and all I get in return is a flaming bag of dogshit on my doorstep

[joekker]

Speaking with the wealth of experience that makes this my first post I'd like to confide in you Woods sincerely that you are'nt an asshole.

[zombiewoof23]

I’d like to preface this by sating that there are some cool people here, you know who you are and need no introduction. Then there are the cocksuckers who take pleasure in making me feel like shit. Pain for pain’s sake.

What? It was late, I was high, and it seemed like an interesting idea at the time. What I’ve said here may show that my knowledge of opiate chemistry isn’t terrific, but it does show that it’s better then 90% of those of who are attacking me.

If any of you worthless pieces of shit (this only applies to those who have been randomly and unprovoked attacking me) took a little time out of your lives, and it’s obvious that you’re not doing anything with them except not dying fast enough, you’d see that I’m really a pretty nice guy.

I do, however, get easily depressed, and I’ve been hurt and fucked around a lot recently, and by recently I mean the last couple of decades of my life (I‘m only 21). What fucking right do any of you have to hurt and belittle me when all I try to do is be a decent, kind, caring, nurturing person. I give and I give and all I get in return is a flaming bag of dogshit on my doorstep


Just chill out dude. You started off on the wrong foot. You've rubbed a few ppl the wrong way. Figure out how to work with the grain of the site, not against it. There is nobody here that truly feels that strongly against you, most of us don't have time to worry that much about you. You have just been an easy target based on some of your posts, or threads that you have started. There is a bunch of ppl on here who could sit around and piss and moan about not being treated fairly throughout their lives, but choose to not play the victim card. You can talk to some of the ppl around here who have been in the game for awhile and I'm sure you can find plenty of horror stories. You can find plenty of them on this site. I don't know your history, you may have had a rough childhood, but you still have a long way to go based on your age. Many of us here struggle with depression as well, it seems to go hand in hand with the lifestyle for some people. You truly haven't come across as being decent and kind in many of your posts, you have in fact come across as being an asshole which chem took the time to try to show you.

As long as the Mods aren't bothered by you or have not said anything to you about breaking any rules, who gives a shit what the rest of us have to say. Just try to learn what works and what doesn't. So far you've been good at figuring out what doesn't work. Just my opinion guy. Try not to take this internet stuff too seriously. If this stuff is affecting your emotions that bad, maybe you should seek some other form of entertainment and take a break off of here until you have time to gather yourself.

A good example of somebody who used to cry themselves to sleep at night from getting picked on, on this site is young Opiyum. Antony used to whip his ass into shape everyday. He seemed to turn out......well he's still here and now a top poster.

[Opiyum]

I drove my mother into debt from useing so many tissues and had to have tear duct surgery.

[SmackTalkw/RushLimbo]

another thread to rub my hands together over on a cold winters eve

[orangejuice]

possibly a happy ending??? if not i say we bump this arguement into the abysmal pits of some place scary and far away lol

[The Mayor]

Keep on Woods... I think you'll notice there are a lot of people in here who are touchy about thier sense of humor (chemboy) and take everything personally. (unless they made the joke.) thier are others (insanestevo) who just hang around and kiss the ass of others who sound knowledgeable.

If your expecting anyone to grant you any leivity, look elsewhere. If you have legitimate quesitons, then you'll have to phrase them in a humbler form; remembering of course that your knowledge is shit here unless you have 1000+ posts. Also, you can rattle off a bunch of things that are technically true, and have one misstep towards the end and you'll be single out for it.

All in all, there is a lot of good information and exchanges here. And by and large people are pretty nice and upfront. But ego is not in short supply here, as I'm sure you've noticed, and until you've been here longer, you're going to be picked apart no matter what. Especially if chemboy is trolling the boards.

[insanesteveo]

Keep on Woods... I think you'll notice there are a lot of people in here who are touchy about thier sense of humor (chemboy) and take everything personally. (unless they made the joke.) thier are others (insanestevo) who just hang around and kiss the ass of others who sound knowledgeable.

If your expecting anyone to grant you any leivity, look elsewhere. If you have legitimate quesitons, then you'll have to phrase them in a humbler form; remembering of course that your knowledge is shit here unless you have 1000+ posts. Also, you can rattle off a bunch of things that are technically true, and have one misstep towards the end and you'll be single out for it.

All in all, there is a lot of good information and exchanges here. And by and large people are pretty nice and upfront. But ego is not in short supply here, as I'm sure you've noticed, and until you've been here longer, you're going to be picked apart no matter what. Especially if chemboy is trolling the boards.

why the fuck do i get singled out as a kiss ass? fuck you mayor.

[devilsdrug]

this is what happens on threads that are worthless as i said at the beginning , botton line there is no h without ah

[insanesteveo]

yea, i was probably out of line, but i had just woke up to read that i kiss ass. and i dont. i dont give a fuck what people think of me, i will be who i am forever. and of all the people on this site, why do i come to mind as a kiss ass? because i respect and listen to the older wiser members on here? oooooooook.

all in all, i say delete this thread DD.

[antony]

I’d like to preface this by sating that there are some cool people here, you know who you are and need no introduction.



Here I am. Now pull your tounge outta my ass. I'm nice to pretty much everyone. Except for that fucking Ted Danson. He knows what he did.

[antony]

why the fuck do i get singled out as a kiss ass? fuck you mayor.
Thats a good question alderman. why are you picking on steveo?

[The Mayor]

all in all, i say delete this thread DD.

This is why... and past posts like this.

[chemboy7]

Keep on Woods... I think you'll notice there are a lot of people in here who are touchy about thier sense of humor (chemboy) and take everything personally. (unless they made the joke.) thier are others (insanestevo) who just hang around and kiss the ass of others who sound knowledgeable.

If your expecting anyone to grant you any leivity, look elsewhere. If you have legitimate quesitons, then you'll have to phrase them in a humbler form; remembering of course that your knowledge is shit here unless you have 1000+ posts. Also, you can rattle off a bunch of things that are technically true, and have one misstep towards the end and you'll be single out for it.

All in all, there is a lot of good information and exchanges here. And by and large people are pretty nice and upfront. But ego is not in short supply here, as I'm sure you've noticed, and until you've been here longer, you're going to be picked apart no matter what. Especially if chemboy is trolling the boards.

I have a feeling this was wrote just to stir the shit. Either way, what was said about me doesn't bother me; I have had truer things said about me that have damaged my charactor alot worse... I'm just glad my mom isn't a member here. Hahaha. Frankly, I'm happy that Woods has made a freind or two... everyone deserves a few. But if you feel so strongly about the site why would you want to stick around?

[insanesteveo]

This is why... and past posts like this.

yea, that sure does make me a kiss ass. im not even sure whose ass im kissing, but my lips DO taste like feces.

[The Mayor]

All in all, there is a lot of good information and exchanges here. And by and large people are pretty nice and upfront.


Maybe you missed this part...

[The Mayor]

yea, that sure does make me a kiss ass. im not even sure whose ass im kissing, but my lips DO taste like feces.


I'm looking for the thread where you said something like:

"I've said in the past and many times that DD's work will be manadatory teaching for your children's children and will be classic American literature..."

that's not the wording exact, but it's close. I have just noticed that you don't contribute much except critism of others who are wanting to advance theories, (without sound knowledge of your own) and are very quick to jump on the bandwagon when someone is being raked over the coals. You never start it, mind you (that would require original thinking) but you're sure quick to try and add fuel to the fire. I have sat and watched you do this for some time. This, and trying to get your head up DD's ass, seems to be your M.O.

[antony]

modus operandi...snap.

[insanesteveo]

I'm looking for the thread where you said something like:

"I've said in the past and many times that DD's work will be manadatory teaching for your children's children and will be classic American literature..."

that's not the wording exact, but it's close. I have just noticed that you don't contribute much except critism of others who are wanting to advance theories, (without sound knowledge of your own) and are very quick to jump on the bandwagon when someone is being raked over the coals. You never start it, mind you (that would require original thinking) but you're sure quick to try and add fuel to the fire. I have sat and watched you do this for some time. This, and trying to get your head up DD's ass, seems to be your M.O.

that was a joke. get it?

and i like dd, so maybe that is a reason you think my head is up his ass. as for contribution, i have contributed, maybe not much, but i do what i can. as for criticism, you are the only critisizing right now. im just going to leave this at that, i just dont care what you think anymore. so go at me all you want, i wont respond.

[The Mayor]

so go at me all you want, i wont respond.


ummm, ok.

[Opiyum]

What a bizzare contest this has become.

Stevo...none of my business but you should ignore this guy. Hes trying to get a rise out of you and its never gonna end. Noone is reading into this shit the The Mayor is saying and if they are and they too dont like you....Fuck em.

Yall have fun.

[Opiyum]

I hope this will serve as some sort of distractioni.


Most of the following measurements are for maximum speeds over approximate quarter-mile distances. Exceptions—which are included to give a wide range of animals—are the lion and elephant, whose speeds were clocked in the act of charging; the whippet, which was timed over a 200-yard course; the cheetah over a 100-yard distance; humans for a 15-yard segment of a 100-yard run; and the black mamba snake, six-lined race runner, spider, giant tortoise, three-toed sloth, and garden snail, which were measured over various small distances. Also the Mule deer, which was dropped out of an airplane (punted, actually) and the giraffe, which was shot out of a cannon.
a big-ass fucking cannon

Animal Speed(mph)
Peregrine falcon 200.00+
Cheetah 70.00
Pronghorn antelope 61.00
Lion 50.00
Thomson's gazelle 50.00
Wildebeest 50.00
Quarter horse 47.50
Cape hunting dog 45.00
Elk 45.00
Coyote 43.00
Gray fox 42.00
Hyena 40.00
Ostrich 40.00
Zebra 40.00
Mongolian wild ass 40.00
Greyhound 39.35
Whippet 35.50
Jackal 35.00
Mule deer 35.00
Rabbit (domestic) 35.00
Giraffe 32.00
Reindeer 32.00
Cat (domestic) 30.00
Kangaroo 30.00
Grizzly bear 30.00
Wart hog 30.00
White-tailed deer 30.00
Human 27.89
Elephant 25.00
Black mamba snake 20.00
Six-lined race runner 18.00
Squirrel 12.00
Pig (domestic) 11.00
Chicken 9.00
House mouse 8.00
Spider (Tegenearia atrica) 1.17
Giant tortoise 0.17
Three-toed sloth 0.15
Garden snail 0.03

[poonwhalla]

It would cost me more to make it than buy it drop the ego shit and talk some shit that I can do easyily and cheaply do or some shit mang other then that its all just bullshit. Damn snails are slow as shit

[The Mayor]

Funny thing about these boards... misspeak and it's like mangling the klingon language at a Star Trek convention... Just was fed-up with the same people saying the same shit all the time. So, take it for what it is. Nothing else.

[devilsdrug]

azeotrope is that a planet

[antony]

azeotrope is that a planet

close dd. its the 234th moon of jupiter

[nick]

Christ I just read this thread and now I can't even remember how it started.Some of you guys sure get uptight.I think it's probably best to get loaded and forget all this crap.

[The Mayor]

fuck you mayor.

;)

[Opiyum]

I hope this will serve as some sort of distractioni.


Most of the following measurements are for maximum speeds over approximate quarter-mile distances. Exceptions—which are included to give a wide range of animals—are the lion and elephant, whose speeds were clocked in the act of charging; the whippet, which was timed over a 200-yard course; the cheetah over a 100-yard distance; humans for a 15-yard segment of a 100-yard run; and the black mamba snake, six-lined race runner, spider, giant tortoise, three-toed sloth, and garden snail, which were measured over various small distances. Also the Mule deer, which was dropped out of an airplane (punted, actually) and the giraffe, which was shot out of a cannon.
a big-ass fucking cannon

Animal Speed(mph)
Peregrine falcon 200.00+
Cheetah 70.00
Pronghorn antelope 61.00
Lion 50.00
Thomson's gazelle 50.00
Wildebeest 50.00
Quarter horse 47.50
Cape hunting dog 45.00
Elk 45.00
Coyote 43.00
Gray fox 42.00
Hyena 40.00
Ostrich 40.00
Zebra 40.00
Mongolian wild ass 40.00
Greyhound 39.35
Whippet 35.50
Jackal 35.00
Mule deer 35.00
Rabbit (domestic) 35.00
Giraffe 32.00
Reindeer 32.00
Cat (domestic) 30.00
Kangaroo 30.00
Grizzly bear 30.00
Wart hog 30.00
White-tailed deer 30.00
Human 27.89
Elephant 25.00
Black mamba snake 20.00
Six-lined race runner 18.00
Squirrel 12.00
Pig (domestic) 11.00
Chicken 9.00
House mouse 8.00
Spider (Tegenearia atrica) 1.17
Giant tortoise 0.17
Three-toed sloth 0.15
Garden snail 0.03



http://www.wereboard.com/camel_cannon.jpg

[Opiyum]

An even larger Giraffee Cannon....http://static.flickr.com/83/249948885_9dc4d1b1bd.jpg

[The Mayor]

Have you seen the FatGirl cannon?

[Opiyum]

i have not had the pleasure

[Woods]

What you people did to this thread is making baby jesus cry.

[devilsdrug]

not really it was worthless anyway as iv stated several times

[Woods]

I think you might be confusing this thread and yourself.

[antony]

woody the thread was dead a long time ago. relax.

[Woods]

I am relaxed, just pointing something out.

[devilsdrug]

u keep resurecting a worthless piece of shit thread because only idiots think they can make h withacetic acidand withoutout anhydride and ur right i v been dead a couple times and i can prove it because a brain surgeon like urself said so

[WarmCyanide]

k. none of us are wearing crowns here, right? unless I missed something when I signed up. this is not the tone of the site that I know and love. unless we all missed the coronation. everybody's ass here is up for grabs. dont care how long youve been here or what bragging rights newbs or vets claim. sounds like everyone is kickin simultaneosly. breathe. we all human. chill them niggas out!!!! If i'm out of line, let me know. P.S. slow down woods.:)

[The Mayor]

k. none of us are wearing crowns here, right? unless I missed something when I signed up. this is not the tone of the site that I know and love. unless we all missed the coronation. everybody's ass here is up for grabs. dont care how long youve been here or what bragging rights newbs or vets claim. sounds like everyone is kickin simultaneosly. breathe. we all human. chill them niggas out!!!! If i'm out of line, let me know. P.S. slow down woods.:)


Yeah, you're right. Anything benificial that could come has long since gone. Perhaps I've misjudged. Pull that stick out of your ass Woody- the only reason I sided with you on all this is because I know what it's like trying to advance ideas here that are a little above and beyond. But such advancement requires tact- something that seems to have eluded you. You may have something with your theory in morphine chemistry. I don't know. Not my area of expertise. But I do know this: there is a library of collective knowledge on this board. You may never know it if you start off like a prick right out of the gate.

[WarmCyanide]

Well now that this thread has come to the end of it's usefulness.

Heres a joke:

What is the difference between a police car and a cactus?
...................with a cactus, the pricks are on the outside. :juggle:

[antony]

k. none of us are wearing crowns here, right?

technically no, but I do have to wear it on ceremonies.

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

k. none of us are wearing crowns here, right? unless I missed something when I signed up. this is not the tone of the site that I know and love. unless we all missed the coronation. everybody's ass here is up for grabs. dont care how long youve been here or what bragging rights newbs or vets claim. sounds like everyone is kickin simultaneosly. breathe. we all human. chill them niggas out!!!! If i'm out of line, let me know. P.S. slow down woods.:)



I know this thread is old and dead but do we have to resort to using the "N" word?I have a bi-racial daughter and it just offends me.Nothing personally to you Cyanide but I noticed this happens more and more lately on the forum.I'm sure tons of you will disagree and tell me to get over it,but it really is hard for me when my daughter is constantly abused by that word almost daily I don't know maybe I'm the one outta line because it's a hurtful issue right now in my family and my 11 year old daughter didn't even kn ow what the word was till she started getting constantly called that.
I know it can be used in a negative way and also in a way that alot of people seem to except.I just am going through a hard time with it right now.Sorry if this seems outta line.Usually I don't say anything about stuff like this but it's certainlly to closde to my home and my heart right now.

[alowishus]

I thought it was time we looked at this again, ya I'm a asshole too & I didn't get my abuse yet:

Woods, you did say sorry and "I was wrong" all that kind of crap in the very start, but when you asked to be show what you had said in the past and chem did....well you just ignored that. But on top of that you got "moxie".

Mayor picked fights w/ a couple of the other people and fought for woods but by the end had turned all that around and picked a fight w/ woods...:rolleyes:

vanilla_mlkshake2007 I hear ya, and I agree, but as I know what and where WarmCyanide was quoting that from, he gets a pass on that one, no harm meant.

I'm sorry I missed this thread and for those of you that did, please take the time to read it ALL before posting any comments.

PS it's a good read, DD shines as always....whoops did I just slip my head up your ass DD sorry about that, have it out in a jiffy.;)

PSS and who the hell made their 1st post in defense of Woods and as never posted again, Woods you got two log-ins?

I love you guys. Everyone of you fuckers.:p :p Ahww hell I did it again.

[AWOL]

do we have to resort to using the "N" word?I have a bi-racial daughter and it just offends me.

Hi Vanilla, Just thought I would recommend the movie "the N word - divided we stand" by Urban Works Studio. The blockbuster by me only has 1 copy, but they do atleast have it. It's not a movie making any sort of an argument or a stand. It's just a very informative and interesting movie with interviews from all walks of life.

I haven’t done one single thing to show myself a arrogant. I haven’t done one single thing to show myself as an asshole. Search the rest of my posts,. I do nothing but contribute. I might not be the best member, but I’m good enough, and I don’t deserve the treatment that I’m getting here.

Have you been evaluated by a professional yet?

Confabulation: is the confusion of imagination with memory, and/or the confusion of true memories with false memories. People with Korsakoff's syndrome characteristically confabulate by guessing an answer or imagining an event and then mistaking their guess or imagination for an actual memory.

It can also occur as a result of damage to the ACoA, or Anterior communicating artery, in the Circle of Willis.

[OxyContinuously]

Maybe i can clear this up. I am a chemist by profession, and i will tell you right now, that you 100 percent need acetic anhydride to facilitate the production of herion from morphine. Now I have heard of a demethylation of codeine (producing morphine which is in turn, made into heroin) but you still need the acetic anhydride. Note: acetic acid ,CH3COOH, is insufficient, and also, acetic anhydride, (CH3CO)2O, decomposes into acetic acid, NOT the other way around. Now, what you CAN do is condense acetic acid to form acetic anhydride, and then complete the reaction, but acetic acid on its own is insufficient...

[nick]

Oh christ not again!

[alowishus]

The church of England has a Christ too?:rolleyes: :D


And it's like this nick.....

[nick]

The church of England has a Christ too?:rolleyes: :D


And it's like this nick.....
God is actually dead here,we worship credit cards now.Our father who art access.hallow be the bread thy provide and all that.I'm thinking about the church of satan they seem to have a relaxed attitude to people like me.

[SpecialGuy69]

This thread just makes me want to cash my paycheck, buy a giant sack of dope, and bury my computer in the backyard. I'll dig it up when everyone decides to stop arguing about stupid shit online.

[AWOL]

Friedrich Nietzsche was the bomb bizzle dizzle.

[alowishus]

This thread just makes me want to cash my paycheck, buy a giant sack of dope, and bury my computer in the backyard. I'll dig it up when everyone decides to stop arguing about stupid shit online.


I go havzies w/ ya but we bury YOUR computer.:p

[alowishus]

Friedrich Nietzsche was the bomb bizzle dizzle.

Always loved his little pros about women......what a shit head though, big pompus asshole.:D

Smart, but an ass.

[AWOL]

Always loved his little pros about women......what a shit head though, big pompus asshole.:D

Smart, but an ass.


True, but for his statment that

God is actually dead

Then combined with Reznor's prolific

and no-one cares

My hat's off.


Don't mind me I'm :cloud9: and won't remember any of this tomorrow.

[nick]

We'll remind you DV.

[devilsdrug]

u fukkin freaks drop the bomb

[nick]

Hey DD you sound like Kurtz in Apoclypse now.

[AWOL]

The best / cheapest way is to go down to your dealer and cop some. :D:D:D:D:D

(Robo told me so)

[robojunkie]

You be one fast mutha fukka dv. too bad woods aint around, i bet that guy would love to hear that!

Oh yeah the SuperMario Princess, did mario drop some roofies or GHB in her crystal wine glass (or whatever the fuck princesses drink outta)? She don't look too well...

[AWOL]

You be one fast mutha fukka dv. too bad woods aint around, i bet that guy would love to hear that!

Oh yeah the SuperMario Princess, did mario drop some roofies or GHB in her crystal wine glass (or whatever the fuck princesses drink outta)? She don't look too well...

Mario has a large pipe, and the princess ... there's no audio, but you should hear the shit coming out of that girls mouth !!

[milkybarkid]

I have only read the first couple of pages of this but it seems to be that it was all a misunderstanding. Someone (woods) had an idea -based on a little knowledge of chemistry (a little knowledge is dangerous) whixh then degenersted into everyone thinking the other didn't know the meaning of anhydride, or removing water, or complex , depending on how you look at it. And then a big slagging match.

It's not really my business but that's how it seemed to happen to me.

Makes me ask though - how old are ost of the peole here.. seems like a lot of early 20's, which is great.. just asking

MBK

[alowishus]

I have only read the first couple of pages of this but it seems to be that it was all a misunderstanding. Someone (woods) had an idea -based on a little knowledge of chemistry (a little knowledge is dangerous) whixh then degenersted into everyone thinking the other didn't know the meaning of anhydride, or removing water, or complex , depending on how you look at it. And then a big slagging match.

It's not really my business but that's how it seemed to happen to me.

Makes me ask though - how old are ost of the peole here.. seems like a lot of early 20's, which is great.. just asking

MBK

Just need to say one thing; Woods.

[milkybarkid]

actually i've just re-read it and the woods guy said the anhydride ISN'T just acetic acid without water -- which i would have thought someone without any chemisty and only 3000 year old greek could tell you is wrong.... i apologize

MBK

[nick]

MBK you wait till Woods gets back.

[robojunkie]

Makes me ask though - how old are ost of the peole here.. seems like a lot of early 20's, which is great.. just asking

MBK

There's a thread somewhere about that, if I remember, way off, probably mid 30's. I'm chronologically 34, emotionally somewhere between 18 and 25, look about 25-30, depending on who ya ask and whether I shave, intellectually somewhere between 2 and 80.

PS: This is now officially (I have given myself that authority w/o any affirmations cause I feel like it) a joke thread. No one would want to debate the shit on the first two pages. Woods posting the chemdraw structure, though, that was funny. Woods was funny too. I've found some good humor looking through his posts...I am pretty certain he'll be getting a Nobel prize of some sort in the next year or two, well if they have one for arrogance...

[AWOL]

Maybe he has a large penis ?? I'm arrogant, and my penis is fuckin HUGE !!!!


...... OK NOW THAT THE SERRIOUS TALK IS OVER, THE JOKE THREAD CAN BEGIN

[nick]

Chemboy 7's post taking Woods to pieces(after Woods made the mistake of challenging him) is one of my all times favs.

Personally I think woods has been offed by an irate dope dealer after Woods complained about the nature of the anhydride in his product.

[AWOL]

Chemboy 7's post taking Woods to pieces(after Woods made the mistake of challenging him) is one of my all times favs.

Personally I think woods has been offed by an irate dope dealer after Woods complained about the nature of anhydride in his product.

hah, yeah .. I pointed chemboy for that one I recall. Just for the effort alone.

[milkybarkid]

There's a thread somewhere about that, if I remember, way off, probably mid 30's. I'm chronologically 34, emotionally somewhere between 18 and 25, look about 25-30, depending on who ya ask and whether I shave, intellectually somewhere between 2 and 80.

PS: This is now officially (I have given myself that authority w/o any affirmations cause I feel like it) a joke thread. No one would want to debate the shit on the first two pages. Woods posting the chemdraw structure, though, that was funny. Woods was funny too. I've found some good humor looking through his posts...I am pretty certain he'll be getting a Nobel prize of some sort in the next year or two, well if they have one for arrogance...


thanks man, that is what i thought from readig the posts but it is hard to know. I always think people are the same age as me. This backfired when i told a beautiful 22 yr old girl that i thought she was 28

woods: a joke; what do you get if you cross a horse with a donkey?

..........a mule ..!

MBK

[robojunkie]

actually i've just re-read it and the woods guy said the anhydride ISN'T just acetic acid without water -- which i would have thought someone without any chemisty and only 3000 year old greek could tell you is wrong.... i apologize

MBK

It's a joke thread now, remember? j/k. I can feel the pull, not gonna do it no, no, no, shit! I can't help myself...Woods was right its not the same as "anhydrous". It's the way he came off about it. You're saying he's wrong or am I misreading this? Somebody fucking shoot me. Please.

I wish I had a large penis so I walk around naked and impress people. If I did I'd never wear clothes or say a word. Ask me a question or argue, I just point down, end of debate, beatches!

Oh, MBK, if I can't read english right and you agree with woods (only the damn anhydride answer Imean) feel free to flame the fuck out of me for not learning how to read. However I will start pointing down if it gets outta control...j/k

[Hammilton]

So where'd he go, btw? Back to bluelight, I suppose?

Bluelight is a great place, a great repository of knowledge, and I'm a member myself (though I rarely contribute), but whenever they leave there and come here

it seems everything they say gets translated into asshole

must be a problem with SSL encryption

[greenfox]

OK I'm no Owsley but I do know my way around a beaker. SWIM has had friends that cooked meth (before pseudoephedrine hydrochloride and pseudoephedrine sulfate became banned,) any anyways....) is it possible to replace the ethyl group and do a runaround on the synthesis using sister cousins? If so, check:

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=6081

"The first step is to cook the morphine at 85°C (185°F) for six hours with an equivalent weight of acetic anhydride. In the second, a treatment of water and hydrochloric acid then purifies the product moderately. When the chemists add sodium carbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate), the particulates settle. Step four involves heating the heroin in a mixture of alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol) and activated charcoal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_charcoal) until the alcohol evaporates."

[greenfox]

It seems like a good idea....

[Opiyum]

Does anyone else miss Woods or Harry Pothead? I sure do.

[HistoryofMadness]

Does anyone else miss Woods or Harry Pothead? I sure do.

no.


-edit- ok i miss Woods a little, but i'll never say that to him!

[nick]

er you just did bro,but as I say,I think Woods is dead-shot by an irate dealer after Woods complained about the anhydride in his H.

[OxyContinuously]

I am *not* going to say a word. Not one thing.

[nick]

Silence is golden.

[greenfox]

Silence is golden.


I think I'm missing something here.

[Euphoricgirl]

OK I'm no Owsley but I do know my way around a beaker. SWIM has had friends that cooked meth (before pseudoephedrine hydrochloride and pseudoephedrine sulfate became banned,) any anyways....) is it possible to replace the ethyl group and do a runaround on the synthesis using sister cousins? If so, check:

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?t=6081

"The first step is to cook the morphine at 85°C (185°F) for six hours with an equivalent weight of acetic anhydride. In the second, a treatment of water and hydrochloric acid then purifies the product moderately. When the chemists add sodium carbonate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate), the particulates settle. Step four involves heating the heroin in a mixture of alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol) and activated charcoal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_charcoal) until the alcohol evaporates."

Hold on I am getting out my chemical dictionary....;)

[chemboy7]

Chemboy 7's post taking Woods to pieces(after Woods made the mistake of challenging him) is one of my all times favs.

Personally I think woods has been offed by an irate dope dealer after Woods complained about the nature of the anhydride in his product.

You know, and anyone who knows me knows that it is totally not in my nature to flame or trash on anybody; but that asshole had it coming. It's one thing to come on here with that 'woodsier than thou' attitude but then to challenge the board to come up with "just ONE thing" he has ever said again someone... well fuck I had to take that challenge. That kid just get's under my skin; I don't miss him. Wood's was a splinter in my ass.

[nick]

Naw bro,Woods was ......well Woods and I know he was asking for it.If you'd just flamed him it would be different.

You're 100% right,he had your classic post coming.

[sebastian869]

I’ve been thinking about the creation of heroin from morphine using the oh so easy to get acetic acid instead of the oh so watched acetic anhydride for a while, and according to the search engine, so have many of you. In all the threads proposing the creation of some form of acetylated morphine without the anhydride, the conclusion is quickly reached that it cannot be done, but I’m not entirely sure that’s the case.

Granted I’m not exactly a chemist, and I only have a very small amount of university level organic chemistry under my belt, but I’ve performed similar esterification reactions successfully using only the carboxylic acid, and not the anhydride, and I don’t see why the same couldn’t be done here.

Now, for those who don’t know, esterification is the bonding of a carboxylic acid with an alcohol. In the case of heroin, the acid is acetic acid, and the alcohol is morphine (it seems weird, but thanks to its two hydroxyl groups, in this reaction morphine acts as an alcohol). This is the process used to make many artificial flavouring agents, and I used a wide range of industrial alcohols and carboxylic acids, many of which smelled horrid, one of which (sec-butanol) smelled a bit like rotting flesh, to create mint, rum, and various fruit flavourings.

Of course, in much the same way that drugs, alcohol, the right music, and/or a highly overpriced meal are often required to produce coupling between two people who would otherwise not, just adding a carboxylic acid to an alcohol isn’t going to give you anything but a mixture, unless you do something to catalyze the reaction. Heat is a must, but still you need something else. Technically the reaction is a dehydration reaction, which means that two or more molecules are bonded together while a water molecule is stripped from between them (being formed from the hydroxyl(OH) of the alcohol and a hydrogen on the end of the carboxylic acid). Sulphuric acid is usually used as a catalyst in dehydration reactions, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t work for morphineà heroin. Because of its catalytic nature, you don’t need a great deal of sulphuric acid, a few drops of already dilute acid was all I ever used, and things always turned out nicely.

So why do people use anhydride? Well, that’s just another way to do it. Acetic anhydride is created by heating acetic acid until it goes through a dehydration reaction itself, with two acid molecules bonding, and a water molecule being discarded. When mixed with water the anhydride breaks down into a molecule of acetic acid, and an acetate ion (not sure if it’s an ion, but sounds good enough). The acetate isn’t stable and wants to bond with something, so no catalyst is required, Just two ways of doing the same thing.

Oh, and if you’re thinking about trying to make your own acetic anhydride, forget it. It’s far safer to try and cook meth while drunk on turpentine. You need to heat acetic acid to about 800 degrees for the dehydration reaction to occur, and acetic anhydride is quite flammable, which means you don’t even need a spark to set it off, just oxygen in the air in the reaction vessel.

So, am I a useful little noob, or am I going to get chewed out by someone with more chemistry knowledge then I? I suppose only time will tell.


U can also use Acetyl chloride, but from what I read you DONT want to. Easyer to make but harder to use (in the sense that its more toxic)

[greenfox]

You know, and anyone who knows me knows that it is totally not in my nature to flame or trash on anybody; but that asshole had it coming. It's one thing to come on here with that 'woodsier than thou' attitude but then to challenge the board to come up with "just ONE thing" he has ever said again someone... well fuck I had to take that challenge. That kid just get's under my skin; I don't miss him. Wood's was a splinter in my ass.

Does this post still exist? Love to read it. :)

[nick]

Top of page 3 in this very thread.

[ZodiacKiller]

You know, and anyone who knows me knows that it is totally not in my nature to flame or trash on anybody; but that asshole had it coming. It's one thing to come on here with that 'woodsier than thou' attitude but then to challenge the board to come up with "just ONE thing" he has ever said again someone... well fuck I had to take that challenge. That kid just get's under my skin; I don't miss him. Wood's was a splinter in my ass.

Agreed, I don't miss him either, but these 'acetic anhydride' threads are just getting to the point where if I even see the words, I start to get enraged. Other forums have 'no synthesis thread' rules and I can now kinda see why. Can't we just give this particular avenue a rest? If you want heroin, just go cop some, for god's sake....

I, for one, can't handle it anymore...:mad:



ZK

[robojunkie]

Agreed, I don't miss him either, but these 'acetic anhydride' threads are just getting to the point where if I even see the words, I start to get enraged. Other forums have 'no synthesis thread' rules and I can now kinda see why. Can't we just give this particular avenue a rest? If you want heroin, just go cop some, for god's sake....

I, for one, can't handle it anymore...:mad:



ZK

Yeah, and they're almost never in the "chem" section where they should be (so I can delete 'em!, haha, j/k). But yeah that's where they should be and usually never are...except chem's point by point shredding of Woodsie's victimhood claims...That should have a nice sticky at the top of somewhere...

[chemboy7]

except chem's point by point shredding of Woodsie's victimhood claims...That should have a nice sticky at the top of somewhere...

Making that a sticky? I'm touched but I'd rather not; I don't want to be remembered for that. Like I said, it's not in my nature to go after someone like that. But also like I said, that asshole deserved it. Wood's was one of a kind, I don't think we will be seeing another like him for a very long time. Making my thrashing of him a sticky would prove little other purpose than hilaritity and making me look like a prick.

As to all these Morphine to Heroin via AA threads, I was sick of them a long time before any of you started complaining about them. I noticed the trend, I seen how they all end up. I try my damnedest even now not to post a single word in them; but it's alot harder than it seems. I am drawn to them like a fly to one of those blue light bug zappers; likewise in the end someone usually ends up getting zapped. I wouldn't be against closing the chemistry forum; after all there are maybe 10 of us here that can actually carry a real chemical conversation and it would cut back on the rest of this bullshit. I swear a new thread like this pops up about once a week; I would have thought that all the possible thread titles including the words "Morphine" "Heroin" and "Acetic Anhydride" would have been all used up by now. You won't see me complaining when they are.

[Paregoric Kid]

you can make 6-MAM with acetic acid but you need to use an appropriate catalyst. acetic anhydride and acetic chloride are hard to make 6-MAM with because they also acetylate the phenolic 3-hydroxy group. when you acetylate morphine with acetic acid and the right catalyst you will be able to acetylate just the 6-hydroxy group.

[thbronze]

Agreed, I don't miss him either, but these 'acetic anhydride' threads are just getting to the point where if I even see the words, I start to get enraged. Other forums have 'no synthesis thread' rules and I can now kinda see why. Can't we just give this particular avenue a rest? If you want heroin, just go cop some, for god's sake....

I, for one, can't handle it anymore...:mad:



ZK

Agreed,thought I was quittin,till now,if the mfer only had bigger 40's

[gooserooster]

I can always find a thread that is going absolutely NOWHERE....look for about ten pages in about 2 hours, and you just know there's a bunch of people putting each other down, quoting each other....just to show each other..."I'm right your wrong"..

Can't we just share some info...what happened to acetic anahydride. I thought I was going to find out how to convert my O into some black tar at least...

Can we get back to that subject?

[gooserooster]

I'm tired of not getting high off my methadone, or anything else I take nowadays....I'm thinking about just going cold turkey for a few weeks, so I can at least catch a buzz again.

[tui]

Hehehe

So many gems in this thread. Chemboy, you're truly the internet Zorro. Brilliant.

t

[dan46]

YES
Heroin can indeed be produced without acetic or acetyl chloride
Glacial acetic acid can be used under pressure seal or

a cold cook ==which is not even a 'real cook at all has been found to be effective with
another unwatched chem to produce heroin :

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43
-------------------





A ‘cold synthesis’ of heroin and implications in heroin signature analysis
Utility of trifluoroacetic/acetic anhydride in the acetylation of morphine Luke R. Odella (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43#aff1), Jana Skopecb (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43#aff2), 1 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43#fn1) and Adam McCluskeya (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43#aff1), http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REcor.gif (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6W-4JJ87WY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F20%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=45ed20efb30c23a11eb87a8cca7f5a43#cor1), http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REemail.gif (Adam.McCluskey@newcastle.edu.au)
aChemistry Building, School of Environmental and Life Sciences, The University of Newcastle, University Drive, Callaghan, NSW 2308, Australia
bAGAL, 1 Suakin Street, Pymble, NSW 2073, Australia
Received 5 October 2005; revised 25 January 2006; accepted 2 February 2006. Available online 23 March 2006.





Abstract
Treatment of morphine, at room temperature, with a mixture of trifluoroacetic anhydride (TFAA) and acetic acid (20–30 min) affords good yields of heroin. GC–MS and HPLC examination shows that heroin produced by this route to be extremely clean, but the product contains slightly less heroin than observed via the more traditional acetic anhydride (AA) route (76.1% versus 83.55%); and greater quantities of 3-MAM and 6-MAM (6.9% versus 0.75% and 7.13% versus 0.63%). The concentration ratios of the major alkaloid impurities were found to be both production method (TFAA and AA) as well as morphine extraction methodology dependant. Data contained herein describe the impact of this new production method on current intelligence efforts, largely by-passing existing heroin signature programs and the UNDCP's efforts to restrict access to key synthetic precursors. Given the methodology dependency we find that examination of the major alkaloid ratios is unsuitable for the development of a new heroin signature program.
Further examination of the TFAA methodology allowed the identification of TFAA specific marker compounds, namely bis-trifluoroacetylmorphine (30), 3-trifluoroacetyl-6-acetylmorphine (31), 3-acetyl-6-trifluoroacetylmorphine (32) and trifluoroacetylcodeine (33). However, the hydrolytic lability of trifluroacetyl esters requires careful treatment of suspect samples, thus we propose a modification to existing HSP's in instances were the 6-MAM/WM ratio falls within the average minimum and maximum values of 6.17 and 17.32. Keywords: Heroin; Signaure program; Acetylation of morphine

[2HI2C]

What you people did to this thread is making baby jesus cry.


...well...this is without a doubt the funniest thing I've read today!

[devilsdrug]

i for one am surprised this fukken thread aint been 86d yet im tempted

[2HI2C]

i for one am surprised this fukken thread aint been 86d yet im tempted

I know, I know...ur gettin tired of sayin it... AIN'T NO H W/O AH! :) I love it!

It doesn't mean shit to me, but this is by far the most entertaining (old) thread I've read...

Keep those chain clanking, Devilsdrug dude!

[OpiOEyE]

Yes... anhydride means the removal of water. BUTTTTTTTTT.... the removal of water chemicallly... not physically. Acetic acid is the acid dissolved in water. If you evaporate the water, it does not become acetic anhydride. You need to chemically remove an H2O molecule from the acetic acid to get acetic anhydride, meaning taking out 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen from the chemical. It's the difference between having something dissolved in water, and then taking it out of solution, and having water chemically removed from the bonds of the molecule... I know there's a better way to put it than that, but I figure that's the easiest way to understand it.

[Paregoric Kid]

acetic anhydride can acetylate morphine at two positions thus making it DIacetylmorphine, acetic acid could only possibly add one acetic group to morphine, thus producing MONOacetylmorphine. glacial acetic acid even in a relatively pure form would only add one acetly group, yielding 6-monoacetylmorphine, which is just as good or maybe better than heroin. the problem is that no matter what method you use you are going to end up with a low yield of acutal 6-MAM acetate but mostly just morphine acetate. instead of bothering to make your own AA you might as well look into some lesser/none watched chemicals you could use to synthesize compounds that penetrate the BBB more easily than morphine just like heroin does. these other semi-synthetic morphine derivatives are sometimes even stronger than heroin.

[robojunkie]

i for one am surprised this fukken thread aint been 86d yet im tempted


There ya go dd, closed. NO ONE CAN ACYLATE MORPHINE ONCE or TWICE with GAA. How? Acid catalyzed esterification (ya know like sulfuric acid)? Ain't gonna happen, ya might have a shot with a leaving group like the acetylsalicylic acid procedure, though I'd prefer AA or acetyl chloride even better, but when will this die? Chemistry isn't like drawing the molecules and saying "I'll lose a water and get 6MAA and two and get heroin", it isn't fucking magic.