RC Opiates / Opiods

[imonsomeacid]

There is a complete lack of opiate / sedative RC's in comparison to the various MDxx, MDx, alpha-methly-substituted variants.

My question is why?

Certainly there are numerous novel structures out there that can be made, but the RC market tends to keep looking for a MDMA substitute. How many stimulants does one need really? Lol.

Aside from Methoxetamine (which is truly a gem), opiod RC's and good syntehtic downers aren't really around. Why is this?
Will there ever be?

The stims are great along with with the 2C's, NBOMes and DOxs, but that seems to be the majority of the market.


What compounds could potentially hit the market? I know The Good Doctor talked about a few, but how about some more?

Methadone analogs? n,Fenatanyl analougs, etc.

Discuss.

[dharma bum]

Their is an Analog Act that applies only to opiates. It makes any opiate analog illegal. I thought this question sounded familiar. I saw the same exact thread started by a poster named Chlorine on LegalHighGuides.com. Are you Chlorine imonsomeacid? Here is the post i'm referring to. Here is the link from LegalHighGuides. http://www.legalhighguides.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16805

Discuss.

[imonsomeacid]

Do you happen to be a member on that site?

There is an analogue act for all drugs. Stimulants, sedatives, and opiates. Besides, some of the new novel structures don't even hold a morphone back bone.

[Boy]

What about BDPC (Bromadol)? "Lednicer constructed Dreiding models (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dreiding_models&action=edit&redlink=1) to show that the model of bromadol will give an exact overlay on a model of fentanyl." - Wikipedia.com

Not the best source for info....but better than none.

[Import]

Do you happen to be a member on that site?

There is an analogue act for all drugs. Stimulants, sedatives, and opiates. Besides, some of the new novel structures don't even hold a morphone back bone.

They're not novel in that respect... fully synthetic opioids don't usually (ever?) have the morphINAN backbone.

Anyways, I can say with some degree of confidence that opioid rc's stay off the market because of overdose and addiction concern. Not that stims aren't addictive, but opioid addiction has some extra taboos.

Your RC company starts selling opioids, and when people start ODing and going to rehab, the gov AND public opinion will come down on your ass (not saying it's right...).

Anyways, bromadol and desmethyltramadol are the only ones I'm aware of. Good luck finding them too, unless you know the right people (which I don't, unfortunately).

Discuss...
(are we gonna say that after every post now? Shit's so irritating)

EDIT- You misspelled "OPiaates" AND "Opiods" in the title...

[fearofnormalcy]

I'm more interested in Boro's mention a while back about using Caseins as a precursor...or the even more novel concept of deriving a super-strong opiate from our own saliva: http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?25963-Opiorphin-endogenous-peptide-opioid&

Paging Boro to weigh in on this thread?

[Thanat0s]

becuz the dea would be up in they shit shutting down they bidniss with a quickness if any opio-ish rcs hit the market in any numbers.

'dope' is always pub enemy #1 to prohibitionists.

...seems kinda obv a bad choice when so many other more widely marketable and safer products can be produced.

why not just grow some poppies or order pods/seeds?
buy real dope?

oh,
and whats up with all the shitty new threads by shitty new posters?
DISCUSS this dick, bitch.

[Disconnect]

and whats up with all the shitty new threads by shitty new posters?
DISCUSS my cock, bitch.

but we did. Wet t thread, remember?

if you want more discussion, we are gonna need more pics.
just saying.

[Thanat0s]

but we did. Wet t thread, remember?

if you want more discussion, we are gonna need more pics.
just saying.

oh you...


off topic is right on track,
id say.

[imonsomeacid]

oh you...


off topic is right on track,
id say.

Discuss./

Aside from those points aforementioned, what novel opioid off of methadone or fentanyl or even morphine could be analogs?

[onewayonly]

well this thread just got funny as hell reading.
no company is going to have the feds breathing down there neck.
Fuck look at the opiate industry now(moms crying for dead sons-not that dead is good)

[SeVeN]

Good luck fining any. Let me know if u do.

[Count Zero]

Good question-I already had methoxetamine written down but I will note others that come up. I wonder if anyone will ever come up with something that has opiod qualities (ie. it makes you feel great and kills pain) but without addiction/OD issues-that would be an accomplishment. OP-nice avatar btw.

[borohydride]

There are RC vendors selling designer opioids. Desmethyltramadol isn't so strong, but via IV apparently it is very, very good (IF the vendor actually sells the real thing!). Nortilidine, a BDPC relative (a weaker one!) and a few others are all out there. The people selling it don't really advertise, they only want people 'in the know' to know...

The thing is, if there was a spate of deaths due to overdosage, there would be trouble. For this reason they don't sell anything stronger than morphine (as far as I can tell). Sure, morphine is plenty strong enough to kill, but imagine BDPC!

[jacky]

while there are not many research chemical opioids out there,
there are a whole LOT of opioid active plant materials.....some also with nmda antagonist activity.

with the natural opioids though, there is still alot of WORK to be done,
some of the plants we KNOW have opioid activity, are still relatively, or completely rare,......
the WORK, and the RESEARCH that is needed to bring more plants to the market, is probably the biggest hinderance, as most of these plants are completely legal, as are most if not all of the compounds that they contain that are rumored to be active.

probably 50% of the reason I started this website, is because I thought more people would get excited about the growing number of opioid agonists/antagonists found in nature.......a few years later, and I realize that growth in this area is strictly limited to a small percentage of researchers.

when I realized that kratom can cause death, if a massive overdose of the active compounds is accidentally taken....I myself took a step back.

I reckon, every month, if I try, I can find at least 1-2 new reports on opioid active substances in nature.

I simply lost count of all the new plant materials that need to be tried.

one promising area of research, is into the psychotria genus, and several species that have been long rumored to have opioid/opiate activity, I recently found a website out of Peru, selling and advertising the wanted species.
really, its only a matter of time.

it takes alot of work, but can be rewarding....

the list of opioid activity in plants, has grown quickly over the last few years,
my ability to source, research, and bioassay some of these plants depends on funds, and other researchers.
I lost count actually.
one paper outlines over 250 known species that are PURPORTED analgesics/opioids,

one place to check, is journal of phytochemistry, and related publications.
usually every month I peruse their pages.
and at least every month, sometimes more, I find mention of opioid activity being confirmed. many times, this happens in plants that we already know about, or, already are commercially avialable.

as far as synthetic, new compounds are concerned, there is plenty of research being done, even non legitimate.

I think most of the reason that opiate/opioid RC's are not more popular, is because in general, only 10% or LESS of individuals get euphoria from opioids/opiates......

methoxetamine is an amazing compound....
very potent, nmda antagonist, opiate potentiating, tolerance reducing material. its still legal in the USA. methoxetamine, probably a dangerous compound at higher doses, and seems definitely possible that it could be addicting, as in tolerance producing.

there are scores of research chemical opioids avialable online, they are called peptides. most if NOT ALL OF THEM are not controlled. opiophile members did earlier research with this, unapproved of course.....I think those that researched peptides, and kept doing it, are keeping their research AWAY from the pages of opiophile.org for a reason. heh heh.
peptides companys are probably quick to cut off certian customers....
but not all peptide companys are the same, and some of these compounds, are being made in smaller, home labs.

I think there are many sides to this research chemical phenomenon, there are serious researchers, serious approved producing labs, underground labs, and alot of people without discipline or much thought, that take the low road to personal research....
research chemical companies, that cater to the general public, take risks.....like the pondman that got a life sentence for selling research compounds to people that he knew were taking them internally....and, who lost the lottery, and had a customer that died from abusing the products that were sold to them.
I think most of these companies could really give a shit about research....they probably do care about personal liberties, and making a buck.

stimulant/mdma substitute type of compounds are popular, because in many cases, they are easy as hell to synth, at least some of them, for some people, and because people burn through them quickly.

at some point it seems only a matter of time, until more opioid compounds become avialable on the research chem scene, the growing number of opioid agonist plants will help those matters, even if only analogs of those compounds become researched more.

there is something strange about reaction to opiates/opioids, by the psychedelic, research chem, Molly set.......its considered a "dark" substance, by some, only a hedonistic diversion, and by a few, an unholy alliance with ego or something.
stick around long enough, almost any active chemical can be used to fuck yourself over.

there is one individual I know, that is researching peptide uptake aided by cellular entitys...basically bacteria used to help strengthen weak peptide compounds that have all sort of activity, including opiate/opioid, I think it was the salivary compound, opiorphin that pulled them into this research.

I think its the amino peptide research opioids that most excite me, besides the natural, plant produced opioid compounds. the nice thing about peptides is, that generally, your precursors, are the building blocks of life itself, how the hell are you going to eliminate amino acids from being used to produce drugs?

[imonsomeacid]

There are RC vendors selling designer opioids. Desmethyltramadol isn't so strong, but via IV apparently it is very, very good (IF the vendor actually sells the real thing!). Nortilidine, a BDPC relative (a weaker one!) and a few others are all out there. The people selling it don't really advertise, they only want people 'in the know' to know...

The thing is, if there was a spate of deaths due to overdosage, there would be trouble. For this reason they don't sell anything stronger than morphine (as far as I can tell). Sure, morphine is plenty strong enough to kill, but imagine BDPC!

I didn't know that you could IV desmthyly Tram. How is it?


while there are not many research chemical opioids out there,
there are a whole LOT of opioid active plant materials.....some also with nmda antagonist activity.

with the natural opioids though, there is still alot of WORK to be done,
some of the plants we KNOW have opioid activity, are still relatively, or completely rare,......
the WORK, and the RESEARCH that is needed to bring more plants to the market, is probably the biggest hinderance, as most of these plants are completely legal, as are most if not all of the compounds that they contain that are rumored to be active.

probably 50% of the reason I started this website, is because I thought more people would get excited about the growing number of opioid agonists/antagonists found in nature.......a few years later, and I realize that growth in this area is strictly limited to a small percentage of researchers.

when I realized that kratom can cause death, if a massive overdose of the active compounds is accidentally taken....I myself took a step back.

I reckon, every month, if I try, I can find at least 1-2 new reports on opioid active substances in nature.

I simply lost count of all the new plant materials that need to be tried.

one promising area of research, is into the psychotria genus, and several species that have been long rumored to have opioid/opiate activity, I recently found a website out of Peru, selling and advertising the wanted species.
really, its only a matter of time.

it takes alot of work, but can be rewarding....

the list of opioid activity in plants, has grown quickly over the last few years,
my ability to source, research, and bioassay some of these plants depends on funds, and other researchers.
I lost count actually.
one paper outlines over 250 known species that are PURPORTED analgesics/opioids,

one place to check, is journal of phytochemistry, and related publications.
usually every month I peruse their pages.
and at least every month, sometimes more, I find mention of opioid activity being confirmed. many times, this happens in plants that we already know about, or, already are commercially avialable.

as far as synthetic, new compounds are concerned, there is plenty of research being done, even non legitimate.

I think most of the reason that opiate/opioid RC's are not more popular, is because in general, only 10% or LESS of individuals get euphoria from opioids/opiates......

methoxetamine is an amazing compound....
very potent, nmda antagonist, opiate potentiating, tolerance reducing material. its still legal in the USA. methoxetamine, probably a dangerous compound at higher doses, and seems definitely possible that it could be addicting, as in tolerance producing.

there are scores of research chemical opioids avialable online, they are called peptides. most if NOT ALL OF THEM are not controlled. opiophile members did earlier research with this, unapproved of course.....I think those that researched peptides, and kept doing it, are keeping their research AWAY from the pages of opiophile.org for a reason. heh heh.
peptides companys are probably quick to cut off certian customers....
but not all peptide companys are the same, and some of these compounds, are being made in smaller, home labs.

I think there are many sides to this research chemical phenomenon, there are serious researchers, serious approved producing labs, underground labs, and alot of people without discipline or much thought, that take the low road to personal research....
research chemical companies, that cater to the general public, take risks.....like the pondman that got a life sentence for selling research compounds to people that he knew were taking them internally....and, who lost the lottery, and had a customer that died from abusing the products that were sold to them.
I think most of these companies could really give a shit about research....they probably do care about personal liberties, and making a buck.

stimulant/mdma substitute type of compounds are popular, because in many cases, they are easy as hell to synth, at least some of them, for some people, and because people burn through them quickly.

at some point it seems only a matter of time, until more opioid compounds become avialable on the research chem scene, the growing number of opioid agonist plants will help those matters, even if only analogs of those compounds become researched more.

there is something strange about reaction to opiates/opioids, by the psychedelic, research chem, Molly set.......its considered a "dark" substance, by some, only a hedonistic diversion, and by a few, an unholy alliance with ego or something.
stick around long enough, almost any active chemical can be used to fuck yourself over.

there is one individual I know, that is researching peptide uptake aided by cellular entitys...basically bacteria used to help strengthen weak peptide compounds that have all sort of activity, including opiate/opioid, I think it was the salivary compound, opiorphin that pulled them into this research.

I think its the amino peptide research opioids that most excite me, besides the natural, plant produced opioid compounds. the nice thing about peptides is, that generally, your precursors, are the building blocks of life itself, how the hell are you going to eliminate amino acids from being used to produce drugs?

I've heard reports of the peptide opioids, on another forums, and they were nothing short of garbage. I'm looking for novel new opioids, methadone analogs, the ne AH 7921 which were trying to get going, and some others. Nice insight tho.


Good question-I already had methoxetamine written down but I will note others that come up. I wonder if anyone will ever come up with something that has opiod qualities (ie. it makes you feel great and kills pain) but without addiction/OD issues-that would be an accomplishment. OP-nice avatar btw.


MXE has opioid like activity but there have been studies that it does not bind with the mu opioid recepter directly... it uses a different mechanism to produce those opiate effects.

There must certainly be other opioids out there that maybe don't bind to the opiate recptors but still trigger opioid effects... like MXE.


Thanks about the avatar =D


There are RC vendors selling designer opioids. Desmethyltramadol isn't so strong, but via IV apparently it is very, very good (IF the vendor actually sells the real thing!). Nortilidine, a BDPC relative (a weaker one!) and a few others are all out there. The people selling it don't really advertise, they only want people 'in the know' to know...

The thing is, if there was a spate of deaths due to overdosage, there would be trouble. For this reason they don't sell anything stronger than morphine (as far as I can tell). Sure, morphine is plenty strong enough to kill, but imagine BDPC!

BORO can you elaborate on this list of opioids that you posted? some of them look very promising, do you have any more?\


morpholine? That's one of the most basic ring systems in organic chemistry...?

There are literally hundreds of active opioids that fall outside the MoDA:

-Viminol
-BDPC
-W18
-AH-7921 (which I posted a synth)-Azaprocin
-Methapholine (and it's nitro analog!)Info would be much appreciated. Saw it from another thread.

[borohydride]

I didn't know that you could IV desmthyly Tram. How is it?

It comes as a water-soluble powder so I assume just dissolve & shoot. I've talked with a couple of people who have done it, but TBH I didn't think to ask them for details.

-Viminol: Brand-name Dividol. Available from Brazil off internet (credit card payment).
-BDPC: Potent (X500 morphine) joint MOR/DOR agonist. I've posted trip-report on it.
-W18: Legal, but frankly a bit of a bitch to make - there are other, simpler things 3 try first.
-Methopholine: Like strong codeine. Slow onset. Was RC a while back.

I've mentioned nortilidine. THAT is the one to buy while it's still available. It's a joint MOR agonist/DRI so like an all-in-one speedball! Already some German reports on it - they loved it!

[LateDay]

I know Kratom isn't an RC but might as well be since its treated and marketed like one. Its cheap and legal. Does the trick. Besides that like others noted, buy seeds, pods, or dope/pills.

[borohydride]

MXE has opioid like activity but there have been studies that it does not bind with the mu opioid recepter directly... it uses a different mechanism to produce those opiate effects.
Thanks about the avatar =D

Deprotection of phenol. With a bare -OH the stuff has a LOT of MOR activity.


I know Kratom isn't an RC but might as well be since its treated and marketed like one. Its cheap and legal. Does the trick. Besides that like others noted, buy seeds, pods, or dope/pills.

7-hydroxymitragynine (the active principal) is available. It's actually rather strong, like 17 x morphine or so. Some Japanese researchers looked into it as a possible new analgesic for medicinal use but it had no particular advantage (just as addictive, just as dangerous in OD).



The fact is that there are actually quite a few RC opioids beyond the ones I mentioned, but as soon as they become known they will be banned. I suspect the guys making this stuff make just a few batches of each & move on. It's not like they are any cheaper than the equivalent black-market drug; the guys selling it KNOW it's worth.

[Marley]

I found one vendor who is planning to make BDPC available. It is several months away, though. This is because they are getting set up to synthesize it in house, instead of sourcing it from someone else. They don't trust anyone else as a source (especially given the potential ramifications due to the extreme potency), so they will be making it in house. The ingredients aren't tough to get they said, but they need to obtain the equipment to do it. I asked about price and they couldn't give me an answer on that unitl they get closer to production.

[Tony]

BDPC. It's coming!

[borohydride]

Since BDPC is rather simple to make, it wouldn't take 'several months' but more like 'several days'. I don't believe for one minute that anyone would release an opioid x 504 morphine - the death-toll would be very, very high. I've posted one human test with BDPC & 0.1mg was considered 'intense' by someone with tolerance. If anything, this is a drug that will end up as a cut for H. There is already a weaker BDPC analogue on the market & that is quite enough!

[Marley]

Just passing along what I was told. I'll defer to you, since I have no clue as to the complexity of making it and whether they are bullshitting or not. But below I've copy/pasted the message that was emailed (in qoutes below) to me when I emailed them about it.

"Sourcing bromadol? I have yet to see a vendor I trust at all carrying it. That, my friend, is in house synth. We are getting there. The raw materials are not terribl difficult to find, its more the equipment/time used to deal with the chem (plus having to wear haz-mat suits, etc). We have no idea on price, because I think we are going to be the first I know of to stock it. Its just one of those weird things. As soon as its done, Ill have a better idea. Your bet bet is to join the mailing list....that is going to update once a week to let everyone know what products are in, how much, new stuff, specials, etc.

yeah dude bromadol is going to be nasty:)"

[Jahh]

If Bromadol ever makes it "main stream" I would hope vendors would prepare it by individual dosages(vials) as a safety measure.

[borohydride]

That doesn't strike me as anyone knowledgeable since there is an analogue that is stronger & more importantly, easier to make. The -Br makes the Grignard more tricky so swapping it for a group that doesn't cause such an issue doubles yield. The Swedish made & tested it ;-)

If viminol (CAS 21363-18-8) can be obtained cheaply then separating out the R isomers (3 of the 6) is simple & the drug becomes a full agonist (L2 is the antagonist) 1.7 x morphine. That is about the simplest RC opioid to make. The stuff is made by Zambon in Brazil - I would expect powder to 'leak' from the maker.

I also spotted that the 2'F substituted acetylate analogue of dextropropoxythene is as potent as M. There are thousands of legal thigs possible.

[aka]

Sorry to bump an old thread. I'm very, very into RC's myself and I often wondered the same thing. You guys pretty much covered it already and I even learned some solid new info here.

I know this guy is a bit of a tool and bullshits his way thru his articles, but still I found the article interesting anyway:

http://www.vice.com/read/hamiltons-pharmacopeia-804-v16n4


" The general consensus is that if you’re smart enough to be making designer opioids, you should be using your skill to make LSD or a similar tool for enlightenment, but the temptation is hard to beat. I called up a chemist friend in England who has dabbled in the field. He said, “I’ve accumulated a shitload of data on designer opiates, but hopefully it will never see the light of day. I truly don’t want to encourage people to make these things that are effectively in the realm of psychochemical weapons, but they are so damn interesting that sometimes my judgment goes out the window and I start to chunter on about potential routes of synthesis and… oh well, sometimes I wish I could just shut the fuck up. ”