Substituting opies with benzo's

[Seedy]

I am soon getting my hands on a couple of boxes of valium 10mg's. My experience with benzo's is pretty minimal as they're pretty hard to come by where I'm from. I'm wondering if valium would be a good thing to use to cut down on opiates, ie lower my doses & frequency to reduce tolerance, & taking valiums in between doses. Is this realistic or just plain moronic?

[LayinLow]

I am soon getting my hands on a couple of boxes of valium 10mg's. My experience with benzo's is pretty minimal as they're pretty hard to come by where I'm from. I'm wondering if valium would be a good thing to use to cut down on opiates, ie lower my doses & frequency to reduce tolerance, & taking valiums in between doses. Is this realistic or just plain moronic?

In my experiences, it did not cut my frequency of my use of opiates, all that happened was I ended up with another addiction. They do help with w/d's though. I found benzo's to be fun when I first started taking them, now I don't find too much recreational value in them. Love them when I really have anxiety though.

[DrMuffy]

Well I dont think the benzos would help much in he sense of physical addiction to opiates, but they sure as hell help wih the mental withdrawal part.

[Babydollangel]

Benzos hold no recreat. value to me...i dont quite understand how it does to some ..but to each his own...unless you like the feeling of being a sloppy fallin down drunk after taking enough of them.

I know someone that eats them like candy and i just sit in amazement at them..i dont understand i swear i dont..like a shot of alcohol in a pill if you ask me...they like that feeling though..not me...id rather be euphoric anyday....but maybe that feeling IS some's euphoric..who knows..

[antony]

Benzos hold no recreat. value to me...i dont quite understand how it does to some ..but to each his own...unless you like the feeling of being a sloppy fallin down drunk after taking enough of them.

I know someone that eats them like candy and i just sit in amazement at them..i dont understand i swear i dont..like a shot of alcohol in a pill if you ask me...they like that feeling though..not me...id rather be euphoric anyday....but maybe that feeling IS some's euphoric..who knows..

its a waste of a post, but...

I feel the exact same way.

[Seedy]

Well I've found (in my limited experience) benzo's to be most fun mixed with other stuff. Alcohol for instance (crude, yes!); puts me in a happy sloppy couldn't-giv-a-fuck state where I can really let loose. I might lose an hour or 2 but everyone tells me I was having a great time! Mixed with mushrooms was one of the coolest drug experiences I've ever had. All the coolest parts of the mushy trip with an intense feeling of happiness & well-being. Mixed with a bit of opies/weed & I can happily potter around at the most mundane tasks for hours on end.;)
My RX still hasn't turned up (a bit of a worry after 2.5 weeks) but when/if they do I think they'll just be used for fun not function. How addictive are benzo's anyway?

[antony]

Well I've found (in my limited experience) benzo's to be most fun mixed with other stuff. Alcohol for instance (crude, yes!); puts me in a happy sloppy couldn't-giv-a-fuck state where I can really let loose. I might lose an hour or 2 but everyone tells me I was having a great time! Mixed with mushrooms was one of the coolest drug experiences I've ever had. All the coolest parts of the mushy trip with an intense feeling of happiness & well-being. Mixed with a bit of opies/weed & I can happily potter around at the most mundane tasks for hours on end.;)
My RX still hasn't turned up (a bit of a worry after 2.5 weeks) but when/if they do I think they'll just be used for fun not function. How addictive are benzo's anyway?

I've heard they can be very addictive, but, anything is when you like in (or not) and you make a consistent habit of it.

The w/d's I've heard are the scary part, though. It fucks up your anxiety base line, because of the calming effects. And if you are to stop cold turkey, and you have a panic attack, (I've heard), you can have a stroke or heart attack. Pretty fucked up shit, if you ask me.

[AceBeans]

You are probably not going to use less but you'll get more of a nod :).

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

With me the valiums (10 milligrams)became an addiction till I started the morphine now I can go weeks without my valiums and not even notice I'm not taking them.I guess the morphine high outweighs the valium high,but it never enhanced the morphine high either.I guess the opiates help me get off valiums but I've never tried the valiums to get off opiates so I can't really tell ya.

[BigWaves]

Yes benzo[-diazepenes; anxiety/panic disorder medications, i.e.; Valium™/diazepam, Xanax™/alprazolam, Klonopin™/klonazepam and other "pams" ;) ] are addictive as hell, tolerance is rapid; the withdrawals, although no where's NEAR as initially emotonally/physically devastating, CAN cause seizures with sudden dosage cessation after a week or so on a substantial amt...which varies GREATLY, natch. They can and will keep opiate WDs at bay...for a few hours...even a few days with some people/dosages.

Benzodiazepenes also have an additive/potentiating effect when taken with opiate analgesics.

(Though the rate of which is a crap shoot on a good day.)

Feelin' lucky? ...Well DON'T DO THAT!!

[PantyShot9]

Benzos hold no recreat. value to me...i dont quite understand how it does to some ..but to each his own...unless you like the feeling of being a sloppy fallin down drunk after taking enough of them.

I know someone that eats them like candy and i just sit in amazement at them..i dont understand i swear i dont..like a shot of alcohol in a pill if you ask me...they like that feeling though..not me...id rather be euphoric anyday....but maybe that feeling IS some's euphoric..who knows..

I was just planning on posting about this because I was thinking about how so many people say they don't find benzos euphoric. The thing is I realized although they are euphoric to me I don't believe it is in the classical sense of euphoria. I think it is just feeling extremely happy that you are getting relief from anxiety. Kinda how me and my friend were talking about people in severe pain getting high practically from pain relief (although obviously opiates have more of a classic sense of euphoria). And oddly enough I've been using benzos for 4 or 5 years now and although I have what I could consider a massive tolerance (I've taken 30 mg of Xanax in a day and was somehow able to stay up until 6 AM without feeling extremeley tired) I have never felt any physicall affects of an addiction. Also I've never really felt psychological effects because after my first dose of benzo which was prescribed and happened to be Ativan I feel the same way mentally about them as I did that day they are basically the only thing that works for my anxiety. So I like them in that sense.

[Babydollangel]

I was just planning on posting about this because I was thinking about how so many people say they don't find benzos euphoric. The thing is I realized although they are euphoric to me I don't believe it is in the classical sense of euphoria. I think it is just feeling extremely happy that you are getting relief from anxiety. Kinda how me and my friend were talking about people in severe pain getting high practically from pain relief (although obviously opiates have more of a classic sense of euphoria). And oddly enough I've been using benzos for 4 or 5 years now and although I have what I could consider a massive tolerance (I've taken 30 mg of Xanax in a day and was somehow able to stay up until 6 AM without feeling extremeley tired) I have never felt any physicall affects of an addiction. Also I've never really felt psychological effects because after my first dose of benzo which was prescribed and happened to be Ativan I feel the same way mentally about them as I did that day they are basically the only thing that works for my anxiety. So I like them in that sense.

When anyone finds out I take 6 mgs of xanax (prescribed amt. by my dr) they freak out...i cant fanthom 30 mg...and being alive...but i guess your body could adjust by tolerance. Just like I couldnt at one time see how anyone could take 20 hydro's at once and still be walking but now i figured that one out:D ......30 mg of xanax though...WOW...i keep going back and reading that you said thirty and not just put an extra 0 by mistake, meaning three...lol

[antony]

It's all your d.o.c.

George Carlin was doing like 5 gr. of coke a day. everyday.

Jason Mewes was at at least 450mgs of oxy a day.

It's all in what you like.

[Digitopium]

You know, the only time I would ever use benzos is if I wanted to date rape...myself:o

No seriously though, about the euphoric nature of benzos...they affect different people in different ways-much the same way stimulants such as adderal and ritalin do. Some people get twacked the fuck out on methylphenidate (ritalin), Dex, and addys...like the same kind of intoxication one would experience with pure non-pharmaceutical speed. And some people, I.E. SWIM take a ritalin and feel focused and relaxed, versus sped up and anxious. A friend of mine says valium affects him the same way ritalin affects me...mental clarity, increased alertnes, eliminates tiredness...but ritalin is like coke for him ( too speedy, jaw clenching, bouncing off the goddamn walls), and if I take a benzo its like 1) I pop it 2) 20 minutes or so later it takes effect 3) I wake up the next day and dont remember a damn thing. Seriously...I take a benzo and the next thing that happens is I fucking wake up and 18 hours have passed. According to my high school friends, one time they took me to a diner after popping a Xan bar and I apparently ordered a lemon merange (spell?) pie, and then proceeded to scoop it up and smear it all over my face, then reached for the waitress's apron to wipe the cream off of my eyes. 3 of em swear this happened, so I guess I believe it... (shirt was sticky too...and NO not that kind of sticky)

That was the last benzo I took deliberatly. Except I came upon a small supply of halcion that I keep around as a psycadelic parachute for emergencies.

Back to topic though...anyone else feel this way about benzos versus pharm stimulants? I am diagnosed ADD since I was very young, and that obviously has a great deal to do with my penchant for 'codones and the way my brain reacts to ritalin ( I was scripted it for a decade starting at age 7!), but then why do I just pretty much pass the fuck out when I take a benzo? (any benzo...even half a valium). Whereas my friend takes valium when he works and he functions beautifully on it and has nowhere near the type of physical reaction to it that my body does. Wierd stuff huh? Benzos are ritalin for him, and ritalin is like an advanced form of caffine for me. Anybody react the same way? Anybody informed enough about behavioral drugs/brain chemistry to explain this to my imbecilic mind?

OH, and I dont know why you would want to take benzos as a substitute for opiates...we're talkin apples and oranges...not even, more like apples and broccoli. They will distract your mind during w/d though, but I would much rather have Carisoprodol (SOMA) for w/d....Sidenote, what is SOMA technically (?)...not a benzo obviously, as it has muscular effects and doest knock me the fuck out!

Thanks for your patience in reading this retarded, dischevled, dain-bread post! Hopefully it was entertaining enough to warrant its length! Its 2pm and I just finished a graveyard shift that began at fucking 3am!!! And this is why my brain think unorganized and dumbness.

[Seedy]

Well I cant really answer that last thread but I gotta say I get mental clarity & a sense of well being off opiates, benzos, amphetamines, mdma.... even weed in small doses, Fuck I just love drugs in general. I'd be one boring depressed mother fucker without them, that's for sure! Or so I'd like to think. Maybe I'd actually be happy, rich & married with children, working as an accountant or something, (fuck that!) who's to say? Dammit I'm sure I'm a much more interesting character after nearly half a lifetime of drug abuse!!:D

Anyway, as I was saying, I just got my mexican valiums in the mail. I couldn't believe it. The packaging was dodgy as fuck!! They were taped in their sheets to the inside if a DVD case which was wrapped in tissue paper in a brown envelope. That's how a complete ammatuer would smuggle illegal drugs. Any, can't complain, theyre here, time to much a couple!

[DrMuffy]

I love Benzos, from Xanax to Valium....I usually get euphoric effects off of semi-small doses of Benzos, but they work soooo much better when combing them with other CNS depressants like alcohol or opiates. Dont get me wrong i would much rather have a a couple percs than some k-pins, but i do think they are pretty good when it comes to getting high. As for the addiction, i kno more people who are addicted to their prescription Anti-Anxiety pills than meth, crack or herion.

[edarrin]

You will likely just end up with another addiction as the first poster mentioned. I love the combo of opioid (preferably H) and benzos (preferably diazepam) and hydro weed. Wonderful combo.

They may help you sleep...which is half the battle in w/d for me. I can deal with the rest...if only I could sleeeeep.......

I think one of the reasons some people today don't find rec value in benzos is that they have become more potent and seemingly specific in the effects. Xanax is great at relieving anxiety...but I never get euphoria from it. Almost as if they tried to wean the 'pleasant effects' out. Diazepam is alcohol in pill form IMO.

Diazepam is king of the benzos IMO. It is one of the first and most widely active. Temazepam is good but very hypnotic. Haven't tried nitrazepam but think it might be OK too.

[Seedy]

You will likely just end up with another addiction as the first poster mentioned. I love the combo of opioid (preferably H) and benzos (preferably diazepam) and hydro weed. Wonderful combo.

They may help you sleep...which is half the battle in w/d for me. I can deal with the rest...if only I could sleeeeep.......

I think one of the reasons some people today don't find rec value in benzos is that they have become more potent and seemingly specific in the effects. Xanax is great at relieving anxiety...but I never get euphoria from it. Almost as if they tried to wean the 'pleasant effects' out. Diazepam is alcohol in pill form IMO.

Diazepam is king of the benzos IMO. It is one of the first and most widely active. Temazepam is good but very hypnotic. Haven't tried nitrazepam but think it might be OK too.

Well I spent about a week benzo'd & managed to get my opiate tolerance down enough to get pretty high a couple of days straight. i made sure I wouldn't have more than a week's supply of valium but can definately say If I had more I would have kept taking them. I even felt a bit of withdrawal, just a bit of anxiety, irritability & insomnia. Over all a pretty educational experience and I'm glad I live somewhere I can't regularly score benzos.

[edarrin]

^ not a total waste then. Glad you got the desired effect from them. And yes...you are lucky that you have limited access. I think benzo withdrawl is much worse than opiates, at least for me. With op you know you will feel better in a few days/couple of weeks. With benzos it is months, years, never.

[chemboy7]

^ not a total waste then. Glad you got the desired effect from them. And yes...you are lucky that you have limited access. I think benzo withdrawl is much worse than opiates, at least for me. With op you know you will feel better in a few days/couple of weeks. With benzos it is months, years, never.

Yeah Benzodiazepine withdrawl is definately more intense than it is with Opaites. They cause grand mal siezures and I believe they can even be fatal in extreme cases.

[nick]

I was addicted to benzos for 16 years and kicking them hurt.No proper sleep for days,restless nights for months.Fun,fun and more fun.
I did learn a valuable lesson.Kick junk THEN benzos,not benzos then junk.

[(inaudible screams)]

Benzos hold no recreat. value to me...i dont quite understand how it does to some ..but to each his own...unless you like the feeling of being a sloppy fallin down drunk after taking enough of them.

I know someone that eats them like candy and i just sit in amazement at them..i dont understand i swear i dont..like a shot of alcohol in a pill if you ask me...they like that feeling though..not me...id rather be euphoric anyday....but maybe that feeling IS some's euphoric..who knows..


I'm with you, sugar lips. I got benzos for when I fly and feel like knocking myself out, but I don't like taking them for fun.

And like you I have a friend who likes to chew the xan bars and drink a bottle of wine. It's kind of gross to watch him and try to have a conversation you know he will forget 5 minutes later.

[Narkotikon]

I guess this is all subjective, as with most things, but I like some benzos better than others. I hear everyone say how much they love Xanax bars, and the blue footballs, but I can't stand them. I mean, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn them down if in need, but I just think they're too strong. I take a bar, and I'm blacked out, and I HATE that feeling. When I wake up, I feel soiled, gross, inept, stupid, moronic, etc. I just hate it. That's one of the major reasons I hate alcohol. I just act stupid on it. At least with opiates, I'm high but it's a controlled high. I mean, you'll never see me dancing naked on some table top while on opiates, even though they do make me more sociable, but give me a xanax bar, and I'd probably hump a dog in a black out. Now, that being said, I do like the medium / longer acting benzos. My favorite is Ativan, just because it really relaxes me but I can still control it. I also have taken Klonopin, which is more like Ativan to me. Valium was fun, but I hated the hangover the next day. It just lingers long. I mean, I try to stay away from benzos and alochol because if I go overboard I know what will happen. But, I don't really feel like that's a problem now. I mean, I just don't buy alcohol anymore and I don't really have a supply of benzos on a regular basis. They only thing I have an interest in benzos for now is as a w/d med. I mean, maybe a milligram or two, but certianly not 10 or more anymore. I just can't deal with the anxiety and the insomnia of w/d, plus I think they help with the leg cramps too. Other than that, I have no interest in benzos. It's really been four years since I've even done them. The last time I drank anything was I think this past March. As far as the euphoria form them goes, I guess I can see that. Again, it's probably subjective. I certainly don't consider it to be like the euphoria from opiates. For me, it's more like the happiness and giddyness associated with alcohol consumption and lowered inhibitions.

[geanine.aurora]

Unfortunately I started taking Ativan 1mg 3 times a day about 8 months ago when I was super upset and kicking sub. I'm still taking them. I don't think I feel them but now when I don't take them I feel even more nervous then I normally am. I never take more than prescribed nor have the desire to do so. -I remember too well how in the old days I could take an entire scrip by accident.-Take maybe 5 then forget if I had taken any and proceed to empty the entire bottle. I don't yearn for a benzo feeling like I do opiates but they sure can help take the edge off. I doubt they would help in lessening a dope habit .

[chemboy7]

I doubt they would help in lessening a dope habit .

They make withdrawl slightly more palatable... that's all; no magical replacement. Although they are an ace in the hole for dealing with WD depression/anxiety, sleep deprivation, RLS, ect. They are an awesome aid in WD but hardly a substitute once the sickness/craving is all gone; Benzodiazepines are just plain shitty recreational drugs (by themselves). They produce no euphoria, can't be IV'ed practically, and have a bad habit for erasing your memory at moderate to high doses. The sad fact is there is no substitute for Opaites, for Opaites are the king of all drugs, if there was anything better out there I would be high on it right now and posting in a forum dedicated to it.

[Sitar]

The sad fact is there is no substitute for Opaites, for Opaites are the king of all drugs, if there was anything better out there I would be high on it right now and posting in a forum dedicated to it.

Yep, I totally agree. Opiates are the most absolute pleasurable drugs in the world, hands down.

But yes, if you take benzos, you could probably lessen your daily dose of opiates, although it would probably still be necessary to slowly lower the opiate dose. I have to come off of pods and go back to Suboxone within the next few days, which I'm not looking forward to at all, and then in 3 months I have to be off the Suboxone since the bupe doc I'm seeing doesn't allow patients so take bupe for longer than one year. This is gonna suck since I love opiates so much, but I can't afford to be on them any longer.

Fortunately, I have a good supply of Ativan, Xanax, and Klonopin for coming off everything. I wish I had some Valium, too, but I'm happy to have the benzos I do have.

[Hammilton]

I hate how people push that "speed calms some, speeds others"! That's complete bullshit- utterly untrue.

It's all a dose thing. If you take a small amount of speed, you become focused and alert. Take more, and you become hyper. Even when you're hyper, though, the focused and alert aspects aren't missing, but they aren't what you're rambling on about- fersher.

That was the line that was pushed by the Drug Companies who wanted to make it sound like Amphetamine would calm hyperactive kids, but speed up normals.

Doctors have literally used that as a test for AD(H)D- here, take this pill and in 20 minutes we'll know if you have ADD or ADHD... Guess what? 99% of the time they found what the drug companies wanted them to find: A hyperactive child in desperate need of this medication.

The other 1% or so is that part of the population who were more sensitive to the drug.

There was actually a study on this in the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, very informative.

In reality, it makes complete sense. drugs all affect us differently. That is, they affect some of us more and some of us less. When it comes to the objective effects, 95% of the time they are same more or less. Subjective affects can vary widely, though, because they are more influenced by the mind.

Pot has the pseudo-psychedelic affect on everyone, intensity varies to the point where it's basically just a mild depressant in some, to a full blown psychedlic roller coaster in others.

Coke has the same stimulating affects on everyone, too. Some will enjoy it more than others, and others will hate it more than others, but it's going to be stimulating (while acting as a depressant on some systems, however).

Opiates kill pain, increase intracranial pressure, cause constipation, pin pupils, etc. Some will experience euphoria, and a sad few will experience dysphoria. (get it- 'sad few" :) )

And amphetamines will stimulate everyone. Raise blood pressure, pulse, boost concentration, keep you awake, etc. At a low dose those effects will be minimal, and the focus will be most apparent. Focus is really a objective phenomena now, thanks to the billions of dollars of research Adderall and Methylphenidate have paid for. Yey, we can measure focus! Thats how they tested to see that everyone had higher levels of "focus". What they couldn't test for was euphoria, which is subjective and not everyone experiences.

I'm off my soapbox. Now everyone quit with the stupid "one drug, two vastly different affects"- if you keep it up I'll think you're a Drug Rep