Police search?

[Spell Relief]

:( I cant' believe this! If the police had come to my house for one reason. Could they just ask to see the contents in
my safe in my own bed room, because swim said I have pods
in there? Assuming they were over for a non-drug related cause? and swim just wanted to give me a hard time?
Would'nt they have to have just cause w/or without search
warrant?

[Babydollangel]

i have always heard that they always have to have 'just cause' and a 'search warrant' ...its just that most people dont realize this and usually do as they want without question...a friend told me this...might be wrong but was told you can refuse them to search anything and at that point if they have just cause for a search warrant, then they might could get one.

[WarmCyanide]

need warrant signed by judge.

[repeek]

They need a warrant unless you let them in your house, once they are inside they can pretty much do as they please as you have waved your rights by letting them in.

[clinton]

has anyone ever been busted for pods? would a cop even know what they are? could they prove on the spot that they were papaver somniferum? arent they elgal as long as they are not used for medicinal purposes?

[RobOC]

Even if they have a warrant they have to be looking for something that could feasibly be in ur safe in order to look in there. So, say they were looking for a desktop computer, or a person, neither of which could fit in ur safe, then they cannot legally search ur safe without obtaining a new warrant.

[dorje]

Unless of course somebody ratted you out... Then they have probable cause and the right judge will flip for them and issue a warrant. You can refuse to let them in your safe but with a warrant they can get in but the warrant has to explicitly state the evidence is in the safe. While go to all that trouble for pods ??? Two ounces of smack maybe.

[HistoryofMadness]

They need a warrant unless you let them in your house, once they are inside they can pretty much do as they please as you have waved your rights by letting them in.

this is true, unfortunately, although its not exactly legal.

1. No cop can enter your home without a warrant. When you are out in public, you are pretty much fair game, and when you're in your car, you only have a few sacred cows. But your house is your castle, and you should NEVER give up ANY rights when it comes to that.

The sanctity of the home is really the only thing we have left that is protected under the 4th amendment. If you have any reason to believe you are being targeted in an investigation, or you have a reason not to let a cop in, then walk outside to talk.

Personally I make it a rule to NEVER LET THEM IN...

2. When they are in your house there are still rules. They are allowed to search the entire room they enter, and any rooms that open into it with more than a doorway (like a dining room / living room combo). There are also some other allowances, for example in the case of 'harboring a fugitive' etc.

If they are in the house with a warrant, CALL A LAWYER and get him/her there if you can. If you can't get a lawyer, get a vidoe or tape recorder or other recording device and get as much as you can on it. And ask questions while you're recording. This will be the second best thing for your lawyer as him being there.

If not, at least make sure you know what they're looking for, because they can't proactively look for something else. For example, if they are looking for a shotgun they can't open a shoebox they found under your bed (you know the one with the pistol in it?)...

And if they're looking for a pistol, they can't look in the cigarette box where you keep your shit. By the way, this is why you should always keep your stuff in the smallest possible container. They can look in a big box or tin lunch box for a pistol, and if they find drugs coincidental to the search, it counts as fair game.

And pretty much once they find drugs, they have reasonable cause to search for more drugs, and since drugs are so small, they can basically open anything.

But this is very important: NO COP CAN ENTER YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A WARRANT except in the very few cases of "hot pursuit" which means if you're running from the law after leaving the scene, don't fucking run home unless you want that to be open for search too.
Disclaimer: there may be a mistake or two in this small write-up. I'm working on a detailed 'article/post' of sorts on this very subject.

[HistoryofMadness]

:( I cant' believe this! If the police had come to my house for one reason. Could they just ask to see the contents in
my safe in my own bed room, because swim said I have pods
in there? Assuming they were over for a non-drug related cause? and swim just wanted to give me a hard time?
Would'nt they have to have just cause w/or without search
warrant?

sorry for posting twice in a row, but I gotta address this and the last one is already too fucking long: NEVER ADMIT TO A CRIME WITHOUT A LAWYER!!! As far as cops are concerned, poppies are illegal. If you have a legitimate reason, most likely your lawyer will end up having to explain it. But if a cop hears "poppy pods" they are going to search.

but regardless, they can't come into your house for anything without your permission. All you have to do is tell them to leave.

you're gonna have to explain what happened... and if you can't afford a lawyer, call the ACLU.

Unless of course somebody ratted you out... Then they have probable cause and the right judge will flip for them and issue a warrant. You can refuse to let them in your safe but with a warrant they can get in but the warrant has to explicitly state the evidence is in the safe. While go to all that trouble for pods ??? Two ounces of smack maybe.

This isn't true at all. If they have a warrant, they can look in anything. If you won't open it, they will simply seize it and take it to the lab or station, where they will break it open. A safe isn't sacred UNLESS they are searching for something that wouldn't fit in it (drugs = yes, shotgun = no). Just because its locked up doesn't mean it can't be searched. Once a judge signs off, your house, and EVERYTHING in it, is fair game.

Again, get a lawyer, never let them in without a warrant, and have your lawyer present while they are there.

[WarmCyanide]

When you are out in public, you are pretty much fair game



Good post. Good advice. but i'm not sure if they can search for anything on your person without probable cause. :confused-

These issues have come up in the past as well. i.e. youtube ACLU viddy provided by CUBErt.

be nice if there was a resource on this site (like tucked away in "law-abiding critizen" forum) where a tiny little online handbook could be thrown together.

[HistoryofMadness]

Good post. Good advice. but i'm not sure if they can search for anything on your person without probable cause. :confused-

These issues have come up in the past as well. i.e. youtube ACLU viddy provided by CUBErt.

be nice if there was a resource on this site (like tucked away in "law-abiding critizen" forum) where a tiny little online handbook could be thrown together.

actually, standing in public is the least protected place. the requirements for 'reasonable cause' are very lax. For example, a cop can approach you, and then search your pockets to make sure you don't have a weapon, just to ask you questions.

he can say that you were acting suspicious, which is legitimate in court. he can say he had just seen you with / near / leaving the house of a known drug dealer/user/etc.

trust me, walking around with dope is the worst thing to do. driving in a car with it is the second worst. and being in your house is the best place to be. and being in someone else's house is pretty good too, unless they are not aware of their rights, and then you go down with them if you are in possession.

[Spell Relief]

Thanks Hom,
Thats lot a good info there that I need to know in case Someone wants to
be real ugly/mean an all. You never know also just what things that "could" happen
in your life. lots of lives here & our somewhat risky lifestyles. Good stuff to know.!:)

[blackdog]

if and when da cops come knocking on your door.grab a set of keys put'em in yer pocket then step outside the front door whilest closeing and locking it at the same time.what they cant see or get to by chance of you opening and leaveing the door open will be better in the end kinda i guess??

[dorje]

The police can search only the place described in a warrant and usually can seize only the property that the warrant describes. The police cannot search a house if the warrant specifies the backyard, nor can they search for weapons if the warrant specifies marijuana plants. However, this does not mean that police officers can seize only those items listed in the warrant. If, in the course of their search, police officers come across contraband or evidence of a crime that is not listed in the warrant, they can lawfully seize the unlisted items.

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[repeek]

If by chance you are served with a warrant, just sit there and let them do what they came to do, and under no circumstances have a conversation with them. Call your lawyer and if arrested do not open your mouth except to say “I want my lawyer present”.

In hast the police often make errors in acquiring a warrant, these errors are grounds for your lawyer to file a motion to suppress any and all evidence they might have seized.

[dorje]

Spell I reread your post. Are you saying someone threatened to tell the heat that you had pods in your safe ? Bad news...SWIM a narc.

[chemboy7]

Spell I reread your post. Are you saying someone threatened to tell the heat that you had pods in your safe ? Bad news...SWIM a narc.

Those are the types of people that you just write off and never talk to ever again, at the very least. I think if someone threatened me like that though it would piss me off, I think that might piss me off really bad. I mean, that shit's serious. I think I would find it afully hard to not to persue the matter.

[dorje]

Right. In New York in the old days you would write them off with a pistol. LE thrives on people ratting each other out. The standard deal is three friends or enemies and you walk. I looked at 7 1/2-15 years once because I would not give them any names.

[Spell Relief]

Spell I reread your post. Are you saying someone threatened to tell the heat that you had pods in your safe ? Bad news...SWIM a narc.
Yeah..shity ain't it. not a NARC
Just sort of defense tatic. If I do such & stuff, non drug related
then they play the Ill bust You Card.
I doubt it would happen but still, Swim uses stuff and I mean, thats Low!
Years ago their was alot of Pill selling Going on all the time in my neighborhood &
me.......personally I dont think I would do that to a enemy, unless Someone Harmed one of my
Babys or something like that.
People who live in glass houses..........ya know:confused:

[HistoryofMadness]

The police can search only the place described in a warrant and usually can seize only the property that the warrant describes. The police cannot search a house if the warrant specifies the backyard, nor can they search for weapons if the warrant specifies marijuana plants. However, this does not mean that police officers can seize only those items listed in the warrant. If, in the course of their search, police officers come across contraband or evidence of a crime that is not listed in the warrant, they can lawfully seize the unlisted items.



again, this is partially true, and partially untrue. if a cop has a warrant looking for pot, and you have a locked safe that is large enough to have pot inside, then they are legally able to look inside of the safe, just like they can look inside of a drawer or closet or box. usually they can search the whole premise, including the house, front and back yards, tool sheds, and everything else. but of course, if it only says 'inside the house' then sure, that's it. they rarely do that, though, because they know people have other buildings on the property, etc.

but here's an important exception: if you are renting, they will be able to get permission from your landlord. they can also get permission from a guest in your house, so if you have any stupid friends, never let them answer the door. there's a concept established in case law called "good faith" which covers them entering without a warrant if they believe the person that answers the door has the authority to approve entrance (which implicitly means 'search') whether the person at the door actually has that authority.

If by chance you are served with a warrant, just sit there and let them do what they came to do, and under no circumstances have a conversation with them. Call your lawyer and if arrested do not open your mouth except to say “I want my lawyer present”.

In hast the police often make errors in acquiring a warrant, these errors are grounds for your lawyer to file a motion to suppress any and all evidence they might have seized.


actually on second thought ^this^ is the best advice... most people slip info without knowing or meaning to, so the best policy is not to say a word. if they have an arrest warrant, especially don't say anything but "lawyer" - they can badger you and ask you a million questions, and make you think you have to talk. but by law they HAVE to stop asking questions as soon as you say 'lawyer'.

Policy: never talk to cops if you think they're investigating, or if they're searching or arresting. say 'lawyer' then call one as soon as you can.

[vaxn8]

Excellent info HoM. My little sister is a public defender, so she deals with lots of this stuff. Everything HoM said is very similar to things my sister has told me (about her clients of course!). :)

[blackdog]

Right. In New York in the old days you would write them off with a pistol. LE thrives on people ratting each other out. The standard deal is three friends or enemies and you walk. I looked at 7 1/2-15 years once because I would not give them any names.

It wouldn't have happened to have been 7 1/2 -15 years ago would it?ahemmmmmm:rolleyes:
i didn't think so....just wondering .......what then? I'm intrigued
dawgg

[dorje]

Blackdog- 71/2 to 15 years for possession with intent to sell. In New York that is "giving, sellinbg or bartering narcotics" a high felony. This was for a nicklel bag of heroin. When I was arrested I was told "if you move, you'll be shot.: Did almost a year waiting bail reduction. Lawyer talking 5 years minimum. Miranda decision happened. They had not read me anything about rights. They offer a misdeanor possesion. I choose a Kennedy hearing to see if evidence was obtained legally. The judge doesn;'t buy them claiming they read me rights they didn't know they were supposed to read. Case dismissed. D.A. doesn't refile.

[kdreimiller]

I'm going with cops with do whatever they want and will say whatever they need to get you at least arrested, conviction might be another story.

Ive been arrested and search 2x, both with any rights being read. My lawyer told me that they didnt need to because they saw me commit the crime (well one they didnt really see me do it, but they dropped the charges).

People in baltimore are getting arrested for not having reflectors on their bikes for christ sake.

[Spell Relief]

[quote=kdreimiller;40770]I'm going with cops with do whatever they want and will say whatever they need to get you at least arrested, conviction might be another story.

Ive been arrested and search 2x, both with any rights being read. My lawyer told me that they didnt need to because they saw me commit the crime (well one they didnt really see me do it, but they dropped the charges).

People in baltimore are getting arrested for not having reflectors on their bikes for christ sake.[/quote

My GOD!....Reflectors; they must hve alot of free time and/or a low incedance of real crime.. I would
hate to get caught spiting on the sidewalk or Jay-walking.
Where you live must have a low crime rate.
Going back to the begining of this thread...about..; perhaps getting busted with pPods
Has anyone around here had that experience? And what are the charges for that
in your State?

[vaxn8]

My GOD!....Reflectors; they must hve alot of free time and/or a low incedance of real crime.. I would
hate to get caught spiting on the sidewalk or Jay-walking.
Where you live must have a low crime rate.
Going back to the begining of this thread...about..; perhaps getting busted with pPods
Has anyone around here had that experience? And what are the charges for that
in your State?



Actually no, we are the opposite - I'm in the same area. We were #3 in murder last year and are the site where they film The Wire and The Corner, so were pretty big in H up here. I used to live about an hour West of Baltimore and there they actually started a campaign against J-walkers and arrested people for almost a week, that was last year some time - definitely a little lower crime out there. But no, Baltimore is NOT low crime at all!

[kdreimiller]

Following up on vaxn8, Baltimore used to be known as the City That Reads, Baltimore Believe, Baltimore: Get In On it, Baltimore: The Murder Capital of the US, Baltimore: The Heroin Capital of the US.

Generally speaking, we are good for about a 1 murder a day. It's dropped slightly, so maybe only 300 a year. And last esimate I read said 1 out of 7 was a heroin addict. Good numbers, especially for a pretty small city that up until last year had a continually decling population. (Populations is in the 500- 600k range if I recall correctly)

Central Booking is always overcrowded and they arrest people for quality of life crimes, public urination, loitering, failure to obey, etc.. I think what they are doing is arresting people for stupid crap to see if they have outstanding warrants and have a real reason to put them in jail.

We hired the Police Commish that was under Guliani (sp?) when he was NYC mayor and really cracked down and cleanep up NYC. Unfortunately he wasn't able to achieve the same results in Baltimore. And then he got involved in some scandle I believe and was replaced. The replacement hasn't had any luck cleaning up Baltimore either.

If youve never been to Baltimore-- - driving around Baltimore can be pretty depressing, street after street after street - houses are boarded up. Take a drive down any street it seems and on one block 12 of the 20 houses will be boarded up, sometimes the whole block. It's pretty crazy and pretty sad. Sure, they're are good neighborhoods and more and more up and coming neighborhoods, but the bad outweighs the good I believe.

I think Baltimore is a city that would be a great test for legalization of drugs. Kurt Schmoke (1 or 2 mayors ago) was all for legalization of drugs. He saw it as the only solution for Baltimores drug problem. I'm too young to remember why it was never tried (outside of the obvious federal / DEA issues).

But certainly arresting everyone for really petty quality of life crimes isn't straightening this city out.

ps- I haven't heard of any being arrested for jay walking, but I'm certain it's happened.

Sorry for the slightly off topic post and ramble.

Oh and the ACLU is trying to build a case for all the violations by the police department. The flex squads have gotten in trouble but dealing drugs, taking dealers drugs and money and putting it back on the market, and also other sex charges, etc..

[blackdog]

Blackdog- 71/2 to 15 years for possession with intent to sell. In New York that is "giving, sellinbg or bartering narcotics" a high felony. This was for a nicklel bag of heroin. When I was arrested I was told "if you move, you'll be shot.: Did almost a year waiting bail reduction. Lawyer talking 5 years minimum. Miranda decision happened. They had not read me anything about rights. They offer a misdeanor possesion. I choose a Kennedy hearing to see if evidence was obtained legally. The judge doesn;'t buy them claiming they read me rights they didn't know they were supposed to read. Case dismissed. D.A. doesn't refile.

i've been arrested 3-4 times in da city (rotton apple)
and have never been read/given my miranda rights.
it aint like tv, best you can hope for is a DAT(desk appearence ticket) i hear ya dorje.
dawgg:p
o yeah hey KDREIMILLER,what you said about b-more all boarded up well, da bronx was the same way.what there doing is the speculaters are letting the market go down and then scaffing all them properties back up then rebuilding with government loans and its all one big money game. cycles and cycles what goes around come's around and around, again & again.peace

[kdreimiller]

i've been arrested 3-4 times in da city (rotton apple)
and have never been read/given my miranda rights.
it aint like tv, best you can hope for is a DAT(desk appearence ticket) i hear ya dorje.
dawgg:p
o yeah hey KDREIMILLER,what you said about b-more all boarded up well, da bronx was the same way.what there doing is the speculaters are letting the market go down and then scaffing all them properties back up then rebuilding with government loans and its all one big money game. cycles and cycles what goes around come's around and around, again & again.peace

I wish that were happening in Baltimore but its not except in some small instances. I know that the area near Camden Yards (wher ethe Orioles play) used to be straight up Bmore ghetto. Well they wanted to put in the stadium but they didnt want all those folks coming in town and having to go through the ghetto so they (the gov) sold the houses for $1 each as long as you invested like $25k or something over the course of a year. Now those places are going for $300k - $400k, but like I said, most of Baltimore, that isn't happening.

[dorje]

I had a friend who lived in Baltimore when going to college. He said he knew two dealers there-Big Loey and Little Loey. They would stash in a beat up brick building by pulling out a brick and hiding it in a crevice. One day he got there early for the meet, pulled out a few bricks, found the stash, walked away, came back later pretending he wanted to cop and watched Big Loey pull out the same brick and get surprised when no stash was in the crevice. When he described Baltomore it sounded like parts of New York boarded up on the down side.