IV extraction % / dosage reccomendations

[Love In Vein]

I have done a search on the subject here and found various opions, but nothing that gives me enough info to feel secure. Sorry if this is repost, feel free to merge if so:

I finally have a chance of copping some OP ER 40's in he near future. This is an opiate I've never done before. I don't have a ridiculous IV tolerance; usually use about 30-40mg morph iv when I do it. I know the straight conversion factor for morph to OP so that isn't the question. My question is, after doing the chosen extraction method (ISO, H2O, etc) what % of the drug will I be left with?

For example: If I quarter a 40, then extract a 10mg chunk of OP, how many mg (estimated) of OP will I be left with? OP is one of those drugs where 2 or 3 extra mg can make a big difference to someone so just checking. Done a lot of opiates n my day but never hit this one before. Sounds like it deserves a lot of respect, just paying that to it ya know? Od'ing sucks hha

[seven10kids]

I heard people saying it only felt like they got like 20mg out of a 40mg ER pill. That could all be relative to tolerance tho. I really dont know, but when you dose, start very small, please. That shit is supposed to go a long way.

I wouldnt suggest IVing any pill with gel in it, but if you insist, make sure you are taking all the steps you can to be as safe as possible. Do as much reading as you can while you are waiting. I know the search engine sucks, but hopefully others will chime in with mo betta info

[ryan5892]

If you will be using a 10mg chunk, just assume its 10mg and dose accordingly, if your yield wasn't 100% you can always do more.

[ausativa]

If you will be using a 10mg chunk, just assume its 10mg and dose accordingly, if your yield wasn't 100% you can always do more.

YEP!

[Dr. McKay]

I can always get at least 3 washes out of an 12-24 hour H20 extraction of the ERs.
Iusually put 3 40's in a shot glass with about 8 ml of hot hot water, thenlet sit for about 5 hours, then do a 2.5 ml shot, after that I fill it back up with 1.5 ml of bacteriostatic water and wait about 8-10 hours later then do another shot , then fill with another 2.5 ml of bac water and at hour 24 I will do 1 more extraction.
1 little trick I figured out is cut the tabs in half and you will get your first extraction even quicker, but the last extraction you are going to have apile of mush and will most likely have to just be careful and pull out the water while leaving the pills in there, so you have to filter very carefuly, and it is a very good idea to double filter these too.

[JuStOnEmOrE?]

I hate waiting for the water extractions. I end up using a modified ISO extraction, and it works perfectly every single time I've done it. Unfortunetly you cant get an accurate measuer on how many MG you are using no matter how to extract it for slamming. Just remember in hospitals a starting dose for analgesia is like 1mg, so anything over that means fun, until you're blue that is.

Bottom line, dilute your final product, and be careful. You can ALWAYS do more.... but you cant take some out of you.

[port rhombus]

I don't recommend that you start out with anywhere NEAR this much, but to give you an idea of the yields you can expect:

I'd crush and soak an entire ER 20 or two (two is pushing it--too much powder, and 20s are a bit smaller than 40s) in 2cc of ISO in a small vessel (little pill bottle) for less than 5 minutes, draw through a huge cotton using a 3cc rig w/ its luer point removed, squirt the solution into a spoon propped on an overturned iron, and start evaporating the ISO. Once the solution was in the spoon, I'd immediately repeat the process with another 2cc, adding it to the mixture already in the spoon. If I tried doing a third and separate ISO wash, I wouldn't get any measurable residue when the evaporation was done. So I stuck to two.

When the evaporation was complete (some boiling is ok), I'd add ~1.25cc of water to the film left in the spoon, let it soak for a few moments, push the solids off to the side with the needle cap, filter, and enjoy. Finally, I'd wash the spoon/cotton with another ~1cc of water and get a weak second shot.

I think I was getting most of the goodies this way, since I'd eat the leftover solids (including the powder in the mixing vessel, after it dried), and they were rarely very bitter.

When I wasn't feeling lazy, I'd sometimes redissolve the spoon solids in ISO and repeat the process. It wasn't really worth the effort IMO.

HTH

[Dr. McKay]

My question is when do you stop evaporating the iso/oxym filtered combo ? do you completely let it eveaporate whereethere is no liquid in the spoon or do you leave a small little pool of stuff in there ?
I tried it a few times and I think I left too much iso in the spoon becuase in the end, it burned like hell and felt like crap !!
I have stuck with the H20 soak method becuase I can't get the isp method down right.
If someone can help I sure would appreciate it !

[Milkdud39]

Dr. Mckay,

You have to evaporate all the iso off. When you do so there will be a film left on the spoon. Your goodies are in there. Hope that helps. If not let me know and I can explain further. Done it hundreds of times with no issues.

[Dr. McKay]

O.K. so there will no water at all in the spoon after it evaporates. Will you see any residue in the spoon or will it just be a little sticky ?
So from there with the spoon that has the solution evaporated , you just mix in some water and it is ready to go, or do you filter again then go from there ?
The last thing I want to go through is either not getting anything from it by having only water and no oxym left , or it buring like hell from any iso left.

[borohydride]

-Grind up pill
-Dissolve in 50ml hot water (enough so it's not gooey)
-Cool
-Filter out any solids
-Add equal volume of cold acetone
-Filter
-Wash with a little more acetone
-Dry

Oxymorphone hydrochloride is soluble in water but totally insoluble in acetone. Adding the acetone crashes out the product.

[port rhombus]

Boro, that would work a charm with IR oxyM tabs, but Opana ER has a nasty xanthan gum/locust bean gum-based extended release matrix (brand name: TIMERx, but as far as I can tell, the Opana ER variant isn't one of the current TIMERx products described on the Penwest web site) that becomes a gelatinous mess upon contact with water.

Some unexpected combination of solubility factors enables the matrix to be essentially defeated with 91% iso... until Endo's new Oxycontin OP-esque formulation is approved by the FDA, anyway. I've had no such luck with anhydrous iso (makes sense; oxyM's true alcohol solubility is poor), nor with lesser iso concentrations (this has the same effect as using water; don't waste your pills), but I've never bothered testing ethanol, methanol, nor other solvents that might theoretically work.

Ideally, one should use the iso extraction tek, crash and wash out the results with acetone, and run that through a micron filter. I've been admittedly self-destructive/stupid/etc. with regard to what I'll put in my veins, hence my lazy instructions. For the sake of harm reduction and the health of others, I should've made that abundantly clear to begin with.

Dr McKay: yes, the residue in the spoon will be a bit sticky, but it shouldn't have any visible liquid or odor of iso. Better to let the iso evaporate and then some, and better still to follow a combination of the iso tek and Boro's advice.

Ideally, the film should peel from the spoon in a large sheet after adding water. This can be pushed aside and "wrung out" by pressing it down with something sterile and nonporous. Upon drying for longer than necessary, the film begins to turn yellow and really adhering to the spoon. This can be remedied by letting the water sit for a few minutes before peeling. The alternative is to scrape the film from the spoon after adding water, which causes it to break apart and increases the risks of injecting solids and/or clogging your filter.

I've also been through this process (minus the acetone) many hundreds of times and would be happy to provide further guidance.

Just to be clear, please filter your solution after adding water and before injecting.

[Milkdud39]

Dr. McKay,

Here is what I do.

First I get all the things I need together. Keep in mind harm reduction. What I get together is 2 tablespoons, 91% iso, the pill, a paper towel, a new needle, cotton, water, and a needle with the tip cut off(used to filter) and a frying pan if you have a gas stove. Oh and the most important thing of all an OPANA ER.

First I take the coating off the pill using the paper towel with iso on it. After I clean the coating off I set it aside.

Second I crush up the pill as fine as possible and then place it in spoon number one.

Third I pour the iso in the spoon that contains the crushed up pill. I typically make sure all the powder is covered and then some.

Fourth I stir that mixture up for about a minute or two. (The longer it sits the better but I am an impatient junky)

Fifth I take a large piece of cotton and place it into the mixture and then I take the needle with the actual needle part cut off and filter that solution. You want to be sure there are no large particles after filtering.

Sixth I take the solution that has been filtered and place it into spoon number two. (You made need to suck up more of the solution from spoon number one and again place it into spoon number two.)

Seventh I take spoon number two and evaporate the iso off. There will be a film left on the spoon once all the iso has been evaporated off. That is where your goodies are.
-Now if you have an electric stove you can simply place the spoon on the burner and let the iso boil off. It will not catch fire.
--If you have a gas stove you will need to place a frying pan over the flame and then place the spoon on the frying pan. The pan eliminates your mixture catching fire. (If possible use an old pan with no non stick coating.)
---You can use a lighter to boil off the iso but this is dangerous because your solution will catch fire unless you blow continuously on the solution. Basically you need to keep the vapors away from the flame. (I do not recommend this method because chances are it will catch on fire and startle you causing you to dump you precious mixture.

Eighth I take spoon number two containing the film on it and add water then peel the film from the bottom and let it sit in the water a minute.

Ninth I place a cotton in the water and filter that solution (this is your goodies with no gel)

Finally I take the paper towel and place iso on it and wipe my injection site. Once clean I poke myself, register and then slide into pure BLISS!!!

(There will be a wash. Just complete the same process listed above.)

**********PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL INJECTING OPANA. IT IS VERY VERY STRONG STUFF AND CAN KILL YOU IF YOU DON'T TREAT IT WITH THE UP MOST RESPECT. REMEMBER 1 MG IV OPANA IS EQUAL TO 20 MG OF ORAL OXYCODONE. SO PLEASE ONLY INJECT OPANA IF YOU KNOW YOUR TOLERENCE AND WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE. START SMALL. YOU CAN ALWAYS DO MORE. UNFORTUNATELY YOU CANNOT TAKE IT OUT. PLEASE BE VERY VERY CAREFUL*****************

[Dr. McKay]

Thanks a bunch for the very detailed info!
BTW I am very experienced with IV opana, but I have always either done the IRs or did the 24 hour H20 soak.
My normal dose is about 30-40 mg per shot, so my tolly is pretty high unfortunatly.

[Dr. McKay]

Also did you read that they finaly aproved the new formula for Opana Er ? It is called Opana TRF.
It is supposed to be more crush resistant.
I am praying that they either offer both meds (ER and TRF) or maybe the generics that are due to come out in about a year do not have this new crush resistant formula.
IT is goona suck at first if I end up only being able to get the new TRF pills.
I have been either snorting or Iving the tabs since I got them. I actualluy only swallowed a pill 2 times and felt like I did not take anything.
I have to prepare myself for this switch by taking the Ers orally to get used to taking them this way.
Now I know how the oxy crowd must have felt when they came out with the OP's !

[Milkdud39]

Dr. McKay,

How did that method work out for you? I hope I explained it well enough. If need be I can email you a video. The whole process takes at most ten minutes.

In regards to the new Opana ER, Hopefully they do not get approved. The reason they are doing that is to hopefully expand their rights to solely produce Opana ER tablets. Its the same reason that Oxycontin did that. I remember reading that the FDA denied the application for the new Opana ER pills. However I am not to worried because us JUNKIES are a very intelligent group of individuals. Where there is a will there is a way. It only took about a week for the new Oxycontin to be defeated so I assume that the new Opana will be the same way.

I really hope that there will be some sort of generic Opana ER soon because it would make the prices go down and that would make the street prices go down because more insurance companies would cover Opana ER. I guess it is wishful thinking. Maybe just maybe tho.

Milkdud39

[Dr. McKay]

@milkdud39 :
How can we exchange email to discuss this and not get kciked off the board ?
I dont think that you can post your email addy ?

[Weefa]

I do the ISO method all the time... and i feel like im really doin it right when i squirt water into the spoon after you got the film and when you go to stir the whole film comes off in one big piece.. if you got a crusty film that you got to scratch into your shot you prolly overcooked it.

[Dr. McKay]

How do you know when to stop cooking it ? Do you stop as soon as the liquid disappears ?
Also how hot do you turn the stove on for this ?
Thanks!

Getting my script tommorow, so I am going to give it a shot !

[Weefa]

i cook it till i have a dry film in my spoon. i usually try not to evaporate the alcohol as fast as i can by putting the lighter as close to it as possible... i usually hold my lighter a little ways away and just let it simmer but i have been in a hurry before and just boiled the fuck out of it. haha

[port rhombus]

Do you stop as soon as the liquid disappears ?

Yes.

I personally boiled off the alcohol because I'm impatient. When the boiling stops, the evaporation is complete. AFAIK, this has no impact on the active substance (oxym's melting point is ~450º C) nor the useability of the resulting film.

One ophile member suggested burning off the alcohol. I wouldn't recommend that.



Also how hot do you turn the stove on for this ?
Dunno; I've never owned an electric range. I used a gas range on a very low setting during my first few extraction attempts, but I wanted to be able to walk away and didn't feel comfortable doing that with ISO near an open flame.

I'd set the evaporation spoon on an overturned iron (actually, a hand-held steamer) on the highest setting. This worked very well. I'm not sure how hot it was, but I don't think precision is of too much importance, considering the properties of the materials involved.