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miked138
05-31-2011, 10:24 PM
I know I have seen black seed oil mentioned on this site, but didn't see it in this section, having tried gfj, tagament, and most of the others, black seed oil has been by far the most effective for potentiating oxy for me personally (by potentiating i don't mean falling asleep). If i take 1-2 tbs of black seed oil 20 minutes or so before or after taking oxy i find i can get the same feeling at roughly 75% of my normal dose, or if i take a full dose it is definitely stronger with more euphoria. I have also given black seed oil itself to 2 people with no opiate tolerance and both reported a very mild opiate like feeling.

OpiatedChronically
06-02-2011, 08:36 AM
That's interesting, a mild opiate like feeling from the oil itself? I wonder if this would work to potentiate morphine? I'm gonna find out more about this...

jacky
06-04-2011, 11:35 AM
for most people nigella sativa oil works mostly as a Potentiator for other opiates/opioids.

the oil does seem to cut down on withdrawal symptoms.

the oil is used for pain relief as a stand alone treatment, as well as in combinations with opiates/opioids, or other herbs or drugs.

the seed that produces this oil is around 50% oil by weight, meaning that buying the seed might be cheaper than the oil, and it might be easier for some people to tolerate, especially if your dose of oil goes above the teaspoon level into the tablespoons a day level.

thymoquinone MIGHT be one of the active substances, which is a compound with some structural similiarity to menthol, menthol is a kappa opioid agonist in some way, so I reckon that thymoquinone could possibly have some effect on the opiate receptors.

always possible that the oil effects receptors in an indirect, or bi phasic way.

out of 20 some purported or proven opioid active herbs/plant materials that I have tried over the years, nigella sativa I would rank just right behind kratom, and before picralima nitida....but ONLY as a potentiator.

my habit has been too long running to test nigella sativa oil ALONE for any period of time longer than a day or so.

as a potentiator, I quickly learned that I could either drop my dose of opiates/opioids, or take just as much with the oil and either have sufficient, or intensified effects.
taking too much of the oil, can KICK YOUR ASS.......at least if combined with too much opiates/opioids. I had made the mistake several times before work, and spent much of the time itching, and nauseous.

I am not sure how "HUMANE" it is, but apparently in an Afghanistan drug rehab, they are using nothing but nigella sativa seed as a treatment for heroin addiction. That a major production point for some of the best H in the world, with PLENTY of addicts, should try this type of research is interesting.
I read that a dose is not above much more than a few grams of the seed a day. I dont think they are using the oil. the oil can be a problem coming back up the throat if not eaten with the right food combinations. some people have no problems...some do.
but the ground seed powder is probably much better assimilated I would imagine.
now, nigella sativa seed is a famous remedy in the middle east. apparently Mohammad stated that the seed is useful for hundreds of ailments, so for a Muslim nation to use this seed in this manner is understandable.
I would LOVE to talk to some of these detox patients myself. perhaps weening/detoxing off of afghan heroin is not that bad with the seed compared to methadone.....but I would be uncomfortable to be locked up for being an addict in afghanistan with only a few grams of nigella seed to keep me there.

Saint
06-04-2011, 05:23 PM
I think this is what Jacky was talking about:

http://www.ayubmed.edu.pk/JAMC/PAST/20-2/Sangi.pdf

(pdf: 'nigella sativa as treatment for opioid dependence')

Aqfchair
06-04-2011, 07:03 PM
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but the graph in that PDF charting the supposed mitigation of withdrawal symptoms via nigella sativa over the twelve-day period in which the subjects were hospitalized seems to indicate that, after the third day, the severity of heroin withdrawal decreases slightly each day. That makes me think that, at least for withdrawal, this isn't super effective.

Has anyone tried this one for WDs personally?

jacky
06-07-2011, 10:28 AM
tried it for withdrawal or tolerance reduction more than a few times but always alongside other herb/mineral materials.

the product can severely potentiate some opiates when used alongside, to the point of vertigo, nausea, vomiting and dysphoria....much like one experiences when using TOO MUCH of an opiate

one problem with the seed is that in oil form, only so much can be comfortably consumed. mixed into peanut butter, and drank with hot liquids, bread/food seems the best way.

also remember that oils can potentiate the bioavailability of many drugs, there are patents for using essential oils alongside standard medications to increase absorption,

here is how I look at it.
anyone with a serious habit might want to get the seed in ground form as well as the oil, in cases doses need to be increased. the seed is 50% oil by weight.
the powder can be mixed in with soups, hot cereal/cold cereal etc.
I would think that as an adjunct, alongside other herbs, this seed is surely worth many people at least trying.
but as a stand alone treatment, I would be a bit worried about starting the withdrawal process.

I think the facility in afghanistan is one of those places where people are court ordered much of the time.
it might be an effective treatment, and cheap, in places where your only other option is.....nothing....
reading the protocol if I remember right it was only a few grams of seeds that were allowed for each dose.

I would want to have tens of grams of seed a dose possibly if I was going to use as a stand alone treatment.

I know for me, tested a multitude of times, over a period of probably 5-6 years, that nigella sativa oil definitely helps a ween reduction.
taking too much of the oil can mess me up, I know that for a fact as well, itchy, nauseous, dysphoric......the type of feeling where you are thinking " I am too damn old to do this to myself at work again".

as a source of hedonistic pleasure, I think the oil is most effective in combination with drug of choice, or opioid of choice....

people in chronic pain might benefit possibly.
that is one of the main uses of this oil, as a painkiller, both topically and internally.

pure thymoquinone is avialable fore relatively cheap from chemical wharehouses that specialize in organic chemistry....I am sure there is a process for removing from the oil as well that might be possible in a kitchen with some distillation equipment and other chemicals.
I have not saddled up to trying any pure thymoquinone,
my own experiences with nausea and dysphoria alert me to the fact that thymoquinone in pure form could be toxic, and it definitely has killed animals in research testing for ld50 data.
the oil is relatively rich in thymoquinone...I dont remember exactly....but I believe its much more than 1%.....
people probably take thymoquinone in the tens to hundreds of millligrams....
but I will have to check the exact ratio's recorded.

as a tool for tolerance management or withdrawal reduction, I think this seed can be beneficial, but my experience that is always combined with other herbs and minerals.

I would love to hear of someones reports of using as a sole ingredient.....
but I dont know anyone that dedicated.

danny
06-07-2011, 03:16 PM
there maybe other threads on this if anyone wants to/can amalgamate them, im sure ive discussed this with people on here in the past....

LadySniffsTheBlues
08-03-2011, 06:14 PM
I have been stupified with the new batch of black seed oil I got online a few days ago! I had been getting some for a while that worked "ok" but didn't realize it was not 100% black seed oil until I got this new shipment of a different brand in that IS 100% pure black seed oil.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I have been fucked out of my head with this stuff. I love it. I can truly testify that black seed oil works like a charm with Roxi. I took my normal dose and a big swallow of the new black seed oil, expecting a similar experience as before and was knocked on my ass. I thought maybe it was a coincidence and decided to make sure I waited a few days before letting you all know about it. 3 days later and I am still rocked every time.

Be warned that when purchasing it, just because it says 100% natural oil doesn't mean it is 100% pure Nigella Sativa only. I called the manufacturer of the old brand and low and behold it was only 40% black seed oil and the rest was filler oils. Because the filler oils were 100% natural, they got away with a label that said 100% natural black seed oil. A phone call to the new brand manufacturer confirms it is 100% pure, uncut black seed oil.

I have used black seed oil for a few months now as a potentiator and thought it was "just ok" until I got a hold of some 100% pure, uncut black seed oil. The difference is miles apart.

My dreamstate of nodding has turned into a half hallucinatory state of bliss that I only hope for all of you today.

I hope this info helps anyone who is wondering about the effects of black seed oil.

miked138
08-03-2011, 08:37 PM
glad to hear it worked for you,black seed oil is amazing stuff, esp with oc, with dope i dont notice much difference. if you don't mind, what was the brand that was not 100% black seed oil, just so i never get that one.
does the new brand have that black seed oil "bite"(taste)? i have been through many batches and notice even among the 100% black seed oils, there is often a difference in taste and effect, the last bottle i got had a very strong bite and was a very strong oil. but i have had some batches from the same company that i was less than impressed with.

Count Zero
08-04-2011, 10:20 AM
I have been stupified with the new batch of black seed oil I got online a few days ago! I had been getting some for a while that worked "ok" but didn't realize it was not 100% black seed oil until I got this new shipment of a different brand in that IS 100% pure black seed oil.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I have been fucked out of my head with this stuff. I love it. I can truly testify that black seed oil works like a charm with Roxi. I took my normal dose and a big swallow of the new black seed oil, expecting a similar experience as before and was knocked on my ass. I thought maybe it was a coincidence and decided to make sure I waited a few days before letting you all know about it. 3 days later and I am still rocked every time.

Be warned that when purchasing it, just because it says 100% natural oil doesn't mean it is 100% pure Nigella Sativa only. I called the manufacturer of the old brand and low and behold it was only 40% black seed oil and the rest was filler oils. Because the filler oils were 100% natural, they got away with a label that said 100% natural black seed oil. A phone call to the new brand manufacturer confirms it is 100% pure, uncut black seed oil.

I have used black seed oil for a few months now as a potentiator and thought it was "just ok" until I got a hold of some 100% pure, uncut black seed oil. The difference is miles apart.

My dreamstate of nodding has turned into a half hallucinatory state of bliss that I only hope for all of you today.

I hope this info helps anyone who is wondering about the effects of black seed oil.

Great post, thanks, I will check it out & repped you.

Disconnect
08-04-2011, 10:39 AM
glad to hear it worked for you,black seed oil is amazing stuff, esp with oc, with dope i dont notice much difference. if you don't mind, what was the brand that was not 100% black seed oil, just so i never get that one.
does the new brand have that black seed oil "bite"(taste)? i have been through many batches and notice even among the 100% black seed oils, there is often a difference in taste and effect, the last bottle i got had a very strong bite and was a very strong oil. but i have had some batches from the same company that i was less than impressed with.

So I guess it wouldn't help much with morphine? OC is stupidly priced around here, so fuck that.

ausativa
08-04-2011, 12:25 PM
So I guess it wouldn't help much with morphine? OC is stupidly priced around here, so fuck that.


oxy sucks ass anyway.. MORPHINE FOR THE WIN!!

Import
08-04-2011, 02:34 PM
So I guess it wouldn't help much with morphine? OC is stupidly priced around here, so fuck that.

Probably would work just as well as with oxy...

They're all opioids, should work the same with all of them. Dunno why dude doesn't get the effects with heroin, but yeah. All opioids. You'd just have to try it and see if it works for you...

PoppyLlama
08-04-2011, 03:03 PM
are you allowed to say which brand the uncut black seed oil was? I am really curious.
also, do you guys think this would work for hydrocodone, as well as oxy?

murphle
08-04-2011, 03:07 PM
I'm interested in brand as well. If ya don't wanna blow up yer spot V/M is appreciated!

jacky
08-05-2011, 02:53 PM
good to hear more people are finding out about this precious oil.

I gave some to a friend who was trying to kick kratom. it made him feel sick mostly.

good quality oil can be hard to find sometimes. most herb stores in the US havnt even heard of it.

I am careful mixing it with other opiates/opioids, because it can really lay on nausea and potentiate opiates TOO WELL sometimes. I learned the hard way more than once that I need to measure accurately, otherwise I might take too much.

my suggestion to people that are concerned with getting pure product,
just buy the seeds.
they are 50% oil, and sit better in some peoples stomachs than the isolated oil.
usually the seeds are cheaper.

thymoquinone is a purported active, this compound is available from organic chemical suppliers for relatively cheap, so I would assume that some day a standardized form of the seed might come out in the dietary supplement market.

I rank this seed right behind kratom in effectiveness.

danny
08-09-2011, 04:51 PM
could someone merge the at least three threads on nigella sativa (black seed) oil that i can remember being discussed in under a year, i cant be bothered to keep repeating what ive found out about it
YES it potentiates dope of all kinds
YES its good for you full stop.....

LadySniffsTheBlues
08-09-2011, 06:03 PM
I have no problem with listing brand and telling you where I got it but I just wanna make sure it's okay before I do so. Can anyone tell me what the rules are about that?

Count Zero
08-09-2011, 07:20 PM
I hope it's OK to post addys for vendors of completely legal food/nutritional supplements on the boards, I can't see why it wouldn't be it would be nice to have a mod chime in. I'm going to order one anyway, it says 100% pure and it costs $7.99 so wtf, why not? I would like to know where LSTB got the good quality product...

LadySniffsTheBlues
08-09-2011, 08:13 PM
It is sold on ebay And is by amazing herbs. It is under 20 dollars for an 8 ounce bottle. It clearly states it's 100 percent pure blackseed oil.

miked138
08-09-2011, 09:07 PM
amazing herbs black seed oil is normally very high quality , 1 time i got a bottle that didn't taste right and was very weak,, they replaced it for free, good company all around, i think i notice black seed oil more with oxy than dope, it still works with dope, i just don't find the effects to be as noticeable which could be any number of reasons,i personally find black seed oil to be kind of stimulating like oxy. and with oxy i know the exact mg i am taking so its easier to measure the effects whereas with dope it can vary several mgs from bag to bag let alone batch to batch... ohh and amazon has it for even less.

Indy
08-09-2011, 10:09 PM
I don't think it would be a problem to post about sources for LEGAL potentiators. If the admins think it's an issue I can go through and edit them out, but I wouldn't worry about it.

flowergirl
08-09-2011, 10:42 PM
could someone merge the at least three threads on nigella sativa (black seed) oil that i can remember being discussed in under a year, i cant be bothered to keep repeating what ive found out about it
YES it potentiates dope of all kinds
YES its good for you full stop.....

Well, hell, sure. I didn't know they were the same thing or I'd have jumped all over it already.

jumping*

Indy
08-09-2011, 11:47 PM
I merged the two that were on page 1 of the potentiators forum, there's probably one or two more that i didn't catch

PoppyLlama
08-10-2011, 09:07 PM
well I am definitely going to pick some of this up and I'll let you all know how it works for me! it sounds promising, and I am going to make sure it is 100% pure OIL not 100% natural.

Seedy
08-10-2011, 10:02 PM
good to hear more people are finding out about this precious oil.

I gave some to a friend who was trying to kick kratom. it made him feel sick mostly.

good quality oil can be hard to find sometimes. most herb stores in the US havnt even heard of it.

I am careful mixing it with other opiates/opioids, because it can really lay on nausea and potentiate opiates TOO WELL sometimes. I learned the hard way more than once that I need to measure accurately, otherwise I might take too much.

my suggestion to people that are concerned with getting pure product,
just buy the seeds.
they are 50% oil, and sit better in some peoples stomachs than the isolated oil.
usually the seeds are cheaper.

thymoquinone is a purported active, this compound is available from organic chemical suppliers for relatively cheap, so I would assume that some day a standardized form of the seed might come out in the dietary supplement market.

I rank this seed right behind kratom in effectiveness.

i've just bought 100g of the seeds and munched a few down (assuming that if i hadn't chewed they'd pass through my system pretty much whole). i had 20g of seeds and am just about to try a dose of pst.

do you think chewing is necessary or could i just load up some capsules? the taste isn't that pleasant.

SapphireBlue
08-10-2011, 10:22 PM
What is a good starting dose of the oil? I wanna try it too but definitely don't need to end up sick..

LadySniffsTheBlues
08-10-2011, 11:43 PM
What is a good starting dose of the oil? I wanna try it too but definitely don't need to end up sick..

I use 2 tablespoons each time. It is nasty but worth it. I'm not sure about the seeds or what amount you would use. I have only tried the oil.

Count Zero
08-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Nothing like a good new potentiator to brighten one's day, just the idea puts a spring in my step.

miked138
08-11-2011, 08:05 PM
as far as a starting dose, honestly i would say 1-2 TEAspoons, the first time and see how it works for you, the first time i used it i used a little over 1tsp with oxy and was blown away by the how well it worked (this was a few years ago), now after taking it for some time 1-2 tablespoons works.
of course this all depends on the individual, drug, dose, etc, but to be on the safe side and not end up sick start small.

retrogradeamnesia
08-13-2011, 11:14 PM
IME Chewing is unnecessary..

ausativa
08-13-2011, 11:57 PM
put it in a sprite with some jolly ranchers and you have some herbal sizzurp

SapphireBlue
08-16-2011, 06:16 PM
I did a bit of research and it seems that black seed oil is actually very good for many things, apparently. Here's a quote from Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center's website:



Nigella sativa is a flowering plant found throughout India, Arabia, and Europe. The seeds, commonly known as Black Seeds or Black Cumin, are used in cooking and in traditional medicine for inflammation, infection, and cancer. Constituents from Nigella sativa demonstrated immunomodulatory (1 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (2 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (11 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)), antioxidant (15 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)), antiparasitic (13 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) and hepatoprotective effects (14 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) in vitro and in animal studies. Nigellone, a component of Nigella sativa seed, may be useful in the treatment of diarrhea, asthma (21 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)), and hypertension (5 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (10 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (22 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)). Thymoquinone exhibited anti-epileptic effects in children with refractory seizures (23 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)). Nigella sativa may also relieve symptoms of allergic reactions(12 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)), but allergic contact dermatitis was reported with topical use (19 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)).

Evidence also suggests that Nigella sativa has anticancer properties. The constituents of the seeds, including thymoquinone, reduced the growth and size of tumors in rats (4 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (5 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (6 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (7 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (8 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)) (9 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)). In another study, Nigella sativa oil, when injected, demonstrated a protective effect against tissue damage caused by radiation (15 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)). Human studies are lacking.

Adverse effects are rare, but high doses of Nigella sativa oil caused liver and kidney damage in rats (7 (http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69141.cfm#References)).


It seems that the oil inhibits cytochrome P450 enzymes CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 which are both involved in the metabolism of oxycodone; this may be why a PP mentioned they felt more of an effect with oxy than with heroin. These enzymes are present in the liver and GI tract so wouldn't come into play with heroin use I'm guessing. If I remember correctly, this is also how Tagamet (cimetidine) works.

Some more info about the metabolism of oxycodone:


Until recently, oxycodone O-demethylation to oxymorphone was thought to be a CYP2D6-mediated bioactivation process, similar to codeine. Otton et al. (1993 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full#ref-27)) demonstrated that CYP2D6 is the principal O-demethylase; oxymorphone formation in human liver microsomes was much lower in CYP2D6 poor metabolizers, as compared with extensive metabolizers, and inhibited by quinidine, a selective CYP2D6. Also, Somogyi (1999 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full#ref-35)) has reported that oxymorphone formation in human liver microsomes was inhibited by anti-CYP2D6. However, blockade of oxymorphone formation by quinine has been shown not to decrease the antinociceptive effect of oxycodone in rats (Cleary et al., 1994 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full#ref-5)). Inhibition of CYP2D6 by quinidine did not attenuate the opioid-induced side effects of oxycodone in human volunteers (Kaiko et al., 1996 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full#ref-16); Heiskanen et al., 1998 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full#ref-13)).

I was wondering how oxy could still work - and be potentiated - when it's not being metabolized into oxymorphone and noroxycodone. Maybe the above explains some of it?
Maybe Boro could expound further...

In case anyone wants to read the article I pulled this from, here's a link. It's very technical, but interesting reading.

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full

--- auto merge ---


as far as a starting dose, honestly i would say 1-2 TEAspoons, the first time and see how it works for you, the first time i used it i used a little over 1tsp with oxy and was blown away by the how well it worked (this was a few years ago), now after taking it for some time 1-2 tablespoons works.
of course this all depends on the individual, drug, dose, etc, but to be on the safe side and not end up sick start small.

THanks miked...I thought 2 tablespoons seemed like an awful lot. I'd rather err on the side of caution. I know LadySniffs has a huge tolerance so maybe she needs more? Anyhow, if I try it out I'll start with this.

Junkette
08-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Okay so black cumin is the same thing as nigella sativa??? Cause if so every Arabic store in my city carries that shit by the pound and by the parcel...I always see it when I'm looking for poppy seeds (which I never buy cause they look super washed).....hahai wonder if there is a reason I ALWAYS see the two right next to each other??

So, if I go get some, and it's seed, not oil...but each seed is 50% oil how much should I take?

Junkette
08-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Okay everyone quick word to the wise, Arabic stores sell black cumin as black caraway seeds in bulk. I picked up a 9.5 ounce bottle for $2.49 and a cheese bread for under 5 bones. Across the street I went to just double check the product and they sold it under the label of straight up Nigella seed for 5.99 a pound. Holla at that. Beats waiting on eBay any day and way cheaper.

For drinkers of pst, nigella tastes sorta similar when you are chewing it up, leaves a slight oily slickness in the mouth after eating it with a very rich and nutty aftertaste.

I've eaten about three teaspoons. I've had no opiates today but plan on it later. I'll keep everyone updated as far as if I find any help with the wds...

Hey I'm taking one for the team here. Thank god it's my day off. If it's good enough for dope fiends in the poppy fields, it's good enough for me.

Junkette
08-28-2011, 08:54 PM
My findings.

After initial ingestion of three teaspoons of seed, within 30 minutes I became very sleepy, something abnormal for someone going through dual withdrawal from both benzos and opiates. Although I have been on a really half assed benzo taper, I still expected to have some withdrawal affects from them. I am happy to report I have had none. In fact today is the first day I have not had to dose some type of benzo in 3 months!

So, I took the seeds and became tired to the point of literally passing the fuck out for four hours. Several people tried to wake me and I brushed them all aside. Eventually I got the call I had been waiting for and went out and scored my dillies which I immediately plugged, snorting one, taking a total of 12 mgs of hydromorphone. I will say that I noticed no increase in the intensity of my high but i did notice a decrease in my withdrawal, to the point that my eyes were no longer watering which is a large part of my detox syndrome....and I was also able to wait to score without crying, tearing my hair out, or having a lot of my usual semi psychotic symptoms.

Conclusion: I noticed more withdrawal relief than I did from loperamide with less stomach upset. This may work for some people who are unable to take loperamide due to g.i. Issues like myself.