Sophora Subprostrata Dosage

[Sunwheel]

Holy hell, read this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9430418&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

Now, I calculated a dosage from this, they were giving the rats up to 30 mg/kg...I decided to calculate a rough dosage from 20 mg/kg....in a person weighing 150 pounds, this comes to over 1300 mg of matrine.

The average potency of Sophora Subprostrata is 1% total alkaloids, which is 10 mg per gram of material. A dosage for a mid-range analgesic effects mentioned in that study would be about 130 grams....or about 26 grams of the 5x extract. The LD50 of these sophora alkaloids is really high, I just wonder if anyone has taken Sophora Subprostrata root and felt anything, and at what dosages.

The study says that the analgesic effects of matrine were identical to pentazocine (I think thats how you spell it)

Anyone have any advice on a good dosage level?

[jacky]

I usually take the sophora 5x extract. by my calculations 5 grams of the 5x extract should contain upwards of 500 milligrams of matrine, the active opioid compound found in sophora...the content could even be a little higher.
I have heard matrine compared in potency to pentazocine..so i imagine that 500-1500 milligrams of matrine might not be too much of a dose.

I take this stuff when i might want to cut my opiate dose......I think it sedates me more than anything, a few times I have felt that the material might be causing me some strange thoughts, maybe related to the kappa opioid activity?..well, perhaps..but more than anything this stuff sedates me.

I have never taken sophora/matrine alone , but usually mixed with other opiates.
there is a possibility that this herb could interact positively with other opiates as far as tolerance/physical side effects are concerned.
I think that matrine might also be a partial mu agonist.??

[Sunwheel]

Hey Jacky, thanks. I took a teaspoon by itself at first, around 2.5 to 3 grams. I felt a nice sedation, but it really light, I just wanted to make sure it was safe to take more than that.

BTW, you're right about it being a partial mu-agonist; that site I linked to above describes the analgesic (they use some other synonym thats WAY to long to type out, hehe) effects in those higher-end doses. Sounds good to me! That study also linked to above also said the analgesic test results in rats were identical to pentazocine. I'm not really interested in the eurphoria, but it sounds like it'd be nice to take with kratom, since kratom is a little too stimulating for my tastes...maybe it could potentiate it, too. I'll find out sometime this weekend. :) I was surprised the 5x powder from phyto hardly has any taste at all, goes down good (unlike that awful 15x kratom extract...ugh).

Anyways, thanks again jacky, I'll post about this weekend if I get around to trying it with kratom. BTW, I also read the LD50 in humans could be around 7 grams of the pure alkaloids....sounds pretty safe to me.

[jacky]

if the ld50 is around 7 grams for a human, that might convert say to the equivalent of 350 grams of raw root material.
alot of sophora.
looking at other sophora species I realize that this particular species is relatively edible compared....

I have taken this material maybe 20 times now, and a few of those times, in the equivelant to maybe 35-40 grams of raw material, or 7-8 grams of the 5x extract, I felt some definite added analgesia and mental relaxation...

I am interested in the isolate matrine...which is avialable in the 98% pure form and lesser strenghts

[Sunwheel]

Yeah, I'd say matrine would be worth looking into. I've been taking around 3 grams of the extract to help me sleep at night. Doesn't give me that god-awful zombie feeling like Xanax does. Altho I haven't tried mixing it with any other opioids, yet. Tonight I'm taking ayahuasca, and I don't wanna mix it with MAOI's, so I'll prolly try tomorrow.

If nothing else, it could be good for w/d's...

[Hammilton]

Jackie, having experimented a bit, would you say it has any potential recreationally? I don't typically get blasted (35mg of methadone after 10 months just doesn't do that, does it?) but enjoy a nice calming 'buzz' once in a while. Or every day.

[lukilu]

Ayahausca ! Tonight ? Tell us more . Ive got 2 bottles full been sittin in my fridge for 5 years ;) . Ahh DMT and Banisterosis Caapi what a Cocktail that should be ! Let us know how it goes ? Have you been with the elders before ? Have a great trip :p !
Lukilu

[Sunwheel]

It was horrible the first half hour...usually is, tho. Solid nausea, then, finally, the purge! Smooth sailing after that...altho I think I prolly didn't store my viridis very well, seems to be a little less potent that when I last did it. Still tho, overall, a very entertaining, interesting 4 hours or so.....lotsa neon patterns, and at one point I kept hearing whispering, but it went away everytime I tried to listen closer. DMT is soooo neat in complete darkness, with some good, laid back music on....your eyes will feel so tired afterwards, too much stuff going on!

In other news, I was gonna try 3 or 4 grams of Sophora, and then take hald my usual dose of kratom later on after I feel the sophora. Work up from there. I'll post the results either tonight or Monday...

Ayahausca ! Tonight ? Tell us more . Ive got 2 bottles full been sittin in my fridge for 5 years ;) . Ahh DMT and Banisterosis Caapi what a Cocktail that should be ! Let us know how it goes ? Have you been with the elders before ? Have a great trip :p !
Lukilu

[myke]

Hey,
I just took ayahuasca last night as well...11pm est. I would like to take some kratom today...being it's been 13+ hours since I took the maoi...is it safe to take the kratom yet?

[jacky]

I am not sure, might want to give it 24 hours....from what I have read though, the worry over the MAOI's in the caapi vine are not nearly as potent as other synthetic drugs...even Jonathan Ott states that he ate cheese and other "banned" foods right after a ayahuasca or pharmahuasca experience and didnt notice any detrimental effects.
so I dont know, on one hand I have heard the worry of maoi's in ayahuasca, and having a serotonin syndrome experience from eating certian foods is perhaps overzealous....
but considering kratom is a psychoactive more than it is a food, I would still be careful.

hard one to call, but I think 13 hours might be long enough?
dont take my word for it...I have only taken ayahuasca ONCE, and felt little effect besides the pleasent effects caused by the caapi vine. I have taken dmt, and mainly 5me0-dmt and bufotenine from plant sources, and never really had to deal with the maoi's cause I was snorting or smoking the material.

take care, and take it easy!
jacky

[Sunwheel]

Yeah, I waited around 24 hours before taking anything else...better to be on the safe side!

I've never smoked or snorted DMT...I've only done it orally (which also means on maoi's)...as heavy as an oral dose is, I bet smoked or snorted is just fucking insane....is it worth doing that extraction work?