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View Full Version : New to methadone, dose isnt holding me all day



Cureforpain
05-08-2011, 06:00 PM
So I have been on methadone for about two months now and have been completely clean from other opiates and drugs for two weeks now. I am on 80 mgs a day. For the most part, it holds me pretty well for about 18 hours. I always wake up pretty dope sick. Anyways, today it seems like my dose isnt holding me at all. And this has happened several times in last couple weeks. Is it all in my head? Does this happen to anyone else? Also, do you guys think I should try going up another 10mgs or stick it out a bit longer on my current 80mgs to see if it starts holding me longer than 18 hours.

danny
05-08-2011, 06:08 PM
dude eighty mill is a lot green, i really wouldnt push it unless youve absolutely got to, remember methadone takes a few days to hit you properly anyway...all too easy to go up, but the original whore from hell to come back down from, i wouldnt wish how you feel on a long term high dose of methadone on anyone, keep it as low as you can imho.....

pullmyhair
05-08-2011, 06:11 PM
For me, the whole point of mmt is be comfortable and not have wds or cravings, so IMO it sounds like you need to go up. As long as youre not totally nodding out from your dose, and dont see why you shouldnt go up. Mmt is a long term commitment, so I dont see the point in keeping your dose under some arbitrary number of mgs. I dont think 80 is very high, some might disagree, but that is just barely getting onto the range of the average theraputic dose.

nick
05-08-2011, 06:20 PM
Forget the numbers,take what you need to function-just remember not to look for high because you won't find one.

You might be better off discussing split dosing,with your clinic,before increasing your dose.

norseman
05-08-2011, 06:46 PM
Ya, I have been on the stuff going on 2 years now so I don't have as much experience as some of the above posters, but I must say that I have been on doses of 80 right up to 200mg and there is absolutely NO high for me at all. In fact I find the stuff quite Dysphoric, with many side effects. 200mg doses did keep me well for longer without any high or nodding etc, so an increase may help in that respect. Split dosing may help as well.

After saying that; I, myself have decided to keep my dose at 80mg or lower after experimenting a little. It doesn't hold me all day, but, it allows me to supplement with shorter acting opis to achieve a somewhat 'normal' existence, with lower side effects from the methadone.

Cheers.

P.S. The majority of the people in my clinic do very well on methadone, so just try to finding a happy medium and see how things go for you.

Cureforpain
05-09-2011, 08:53 AM
I would love to do spilt dosing, but they wont allow that until I earn my first level of take homes. I definitely want to keep my dose as low as possible. So I have decided to tough it out on 80 for another week to see if I start to feel better. Its a drag right now. I get hot and cold flashes all throughout the day along with the general aches and pains. And then I always wake up at about 3 or 4 am sick in moderate withdrawal. This morning the dosing nurse actually told me I should see the doc to get a raise because she could visibly see how sick I was today. If I do decide to go up, Ill go to 90 and definitely stay there.

Oh yeah, do you guys really think taking tagamet really works? I haven been taking two tagamets about an hour before dosing everyday. Im not really sure if it is making a difference or not.

Thanks for all the help.

sticky blueberry
05-09-2011, 06:47 PM
I understand why some people think staying low on done
is a good idea. For myself, I needed a higher dose for many
reasons. I have been a chronic relapser for years, at lower doses
I still used which made NO SENSE to me. I went up untill most of
my craving was diminished AND I was comfortable. So now I ONLY
use the done. My SO,however,is caught up in
"staying low",so although he is on less than me,it doesn't hold
him so he takes his take home doses early,then goes without,
and is a butthole for 2 days. Where's the logic?
Get comfortable at a dose,otherwise what's the point? It would
depend on what you want out of MMT.

nick
05-09-2011, 07:04 PM
I understand why some people think staying low on done
is a good idea. For myself, I needed a higher dose for many
reasons. I have been a chronic relapser for years, at lower doses
I still used which made NO SENSE to me. I went up untill most of
my craving was diminished AND I was comfortable. So now I ONLY
use the done. My SO,however,is caught up in
"staying low",so although he is on less than me,it doesn't hold
him so he takes his take home doses early,then goes without,
and is a butthole for 2 days. Where's the logic?
Get comfortable at a dose,otherwise what's the point? It would
depend on what you want out of MMT.

I hate to say it,but the "logic" is some folks are in denial about their situation and are reluctant to make a commitment to maintenence.It's not surprising because it involves admitting a degree of powerlessness.
It's far better to come to acceptance because not using MMT properly is counterproductive and,in fact,dangerous.

norseman
05-09-2011, 07:07 PM
I agree with you Sticky. But everyones situation is a little different. i.e. If I did not have access to other opioids, I would definitely be trying to raise my dose to the point where I feel comfortable and have no cravings etc. But I do find that if I keep my dose at around 80mg and supplement with other opi's then I achieve a better quality of life then just a large dose of methadone.

But as I said above and as you are a good example of, the right dose of methadone can do wonders for some of us. So Cureforpain you might find that there is not much difference between 80mg and going up to 90mg as you just mentioned, so maybe try and keep an open mind for now and if you need more to feel right then don't feel guilty about it. Do what you gotta do.

Cureforpain
05-10-2011, 01:44 AM
Nick, you are absolutely right. I am somewhat reluctant to make a full commitment to mmt. It is a huge step. Ideally, I would like to be on methadone for a year and be done. I really dont think that is realistic though after 7 years of heroin use. I have been thinking about this all night. I have decided the best thing for me right now is to fully commit to it. In just the two weeks I have been off of heroin my life has already gotten better. I am going to see the doc first thing in the morning to see if 90mgs holds me better. I am so tired of sleepless nights. I appreciate everyones wisdom here so much.

sticky blueberry
05-10-2011, 05:52 PM
Good for you! I hope things go as good for you as
they have been for me.
MMT just really helps me have a stable life.
I would never really recommend this therapy
for a person that is new to using,even after
a few years there is still a"chance" that person could
stop using with just sheer will. But,for some, MMT is
a lifesaver!

Cureforpain
05-10-2011, 07:38 PM
hey sticky, if you dont mind me asking, where at are you in Ohio? Who knows, maybe we are going to the same clnic.

pullmyhair
05-10-2011, 08:05 PM
Good for you! I hope things go as good for you as
they have been for me.
MMT just really helps me have a stable life.
I would never really recommend this therapy
for a person that is new to using,even after
a few years there is still a"chance" that person could
stop using with just sheer will. But,for some, MMT is
a lifesaver!

word.
I always see new people at the clinic who are strung out on 'norco' (they don't even know what the actual drug they are addicted to is called) or codeine and I always try to recommend bupe, but they never want to hear it. MMT is a HUGE commitment, and as you said other routes should be tried first. I don't use my methadone exactly as prescribed, but I haven't had a dirty UA in a few years (and I don't mean that I just haven't been caught, I really haven't used and H for a few years), and I am back in school and working, which I was never able to do before MMT. So, I guess my point is when you make the commitment to MMT, it definitely can work, and being that it is something you have to commit to, don't worry about what your dose is, just get to where your are comfortable. Getting on and off in a year is unrealistic IMO. To the OP: get your life straightened out, and stay there for awhile, and then start to think about weaning off.

Count Zero
05-10-2011, 08:21 PM
Nick, you are absolutely right. I am somewhat reluctant to make a full commitment to mmt. It is a huge step. Ideally, I would like to be on methadone for a year and be done. I really dont think that is realistic though after 7 years of heroin use. I have been thinking about this all night. I have decided the best thing for me right now is to fully commit to it. In just the two weeks I have been off of heroin my life has already gotten better. I am going to see the doc first thing in the morning to see if 90mgs holds me better. I am so tired of sleepless nights. I appreciate everyones wisdom here so much.

It sounds like you know what you have to do-I was a junkie for about 15 years on and off, mostly on when I first went on done, strangely enough 9/11 was a big motivation at the time, I thought I can't spend all this money and time wastring my life scoring dope when terrorists are killing Americans and it helped-but I went from 0 to 80 in a few months and back to 0 6 months later, I got off it no problem although after a few months I did do dope for awhile, but it certainly doesn't have to be a multi year thing. I took it for a year and it makes my short I will never take again list, it's been almost 10 years and I haven't been tempted once.

narcant
05-11-2011, 01:06 AM
as said already, you need to get to a dose that keeps you comfortable for 24 hrs. You say you don't want to increase your dose unless you absolutely have to. I understand that but just make sure you have a good reason for that. I don't know if you plan on long term maintenance or not, that is a personal decision, some people need maintenance some people don't but there's no shame in needing maintenance. If you are planning on maintenace that extra 5 or 10 mg isn't gonna have any negative impact. If you plan on detoxing that 5-10 extra mgs will just extend the detox a little longer. There is really no downside that I can think of to increasing the dose. The downside to doing nothing is obvious.
I can't speak for you but I got on methadone because I was sick of the up and downs of dope. The point of methadone is to stabilize your body and If your not being stabilized the juice ain't doing its job.

SeVeN
05-11-2011, 08:17 AM
Like Nick and Danny said and Norseman.

The point is to help overcome the cravings (which cause us to do bad things).


The main issue IMO however is I see so many people taking around 200mgs etc. Whatever works is good so i cant say i know for sure, but I am pretty certain that most people get caught on thinking they will get high again. A high dose can subdue more than a low dose, but tolerance is a bitch and if youve been on for only 2 months?

I absolutely want to warn everybody about high dose methadone, it can cause lots of problems when you decide you dont want to be on methadone any more or are on a high amount.

I guesse just be careful, and if you can split your dose (im guessing you cant as most clinics wont allow it (unless you have take homes but after 2 months u dont have many) .

Methadone really can change a lot. For me the biggest benefit is breaking the cycle. After being on methadone so long you realize you havent spent the last 2 weeks almost everyday trying to score. And the longer you do that the more you "learn" to do without. Kinda anyways.

Good luck keep us updated broham

Cureforpain
05-11-2011, 06:54 PM
So this past tuesday I saw the doc and she would only raise me up 5 mgs to 85mgs. My clinics policy is to keep people at 60 mgs until they give atleast one clean urine. ive never agreed with this policy of rewarding people with a high dose if they can manage on 60mg. The only reason I was able to get 85mgs without a clean urine is because I agreed to do an IOP program. Hopefully they will get my urines back from last week anyday now, as they were my first clean ones.

I havent noticed any change at 85mg. Im still having tons of trouble sleeping since I am always going into withdrawal by midnight. I want to use so badly at night just so I can get a good nights rest. Im really hoping to get a 10mg raise by the end of the week or early next.

sticky blueberry
05-11-2011, 09:48 PM
So wait,they will only raise you IF you drop clean urine?
How does that make sense? When I started we were
allowed several weeks of dirty urine drops because
they realize people are not at a stable dose yet. I mean,
there logic was,.."Well,if you can make it without using,then
your dose must be holdin ya"? So your clinic has things
backwards...hmmm...
Do they know your having such difficulty? Make sure they(doc)
understands you want to use and need more medicine!
Hang in there!

Sweet Jane
05-12-2011, 03:31 AM
Yeah, sticky, my clinic is the same way...they've got it back asswards..
They wont raise your dose without a clean urine and then if you piss dirty they drop you 5-10mgs!!
I had trouble getting stable like that when i first started cuz i wasnt able to sleep at night and was supplementing w/ other stuff to get me through.
I dont understand their logic behind this rule, its obvious if you are still pissin dirty, you're still having trouble w/ cravings and therefore need to increase.
Sorry to go o/t....

To OP:
I hope you get to a comfortble dose so that you can finally reap the benefits of MMT. Although it is best if you can be comfortable at a low dose and keep it there, but if you're still experiencing w/d you have a valid reason to increase your dose. I know you just started so you dont have takehomes yet, but I found that when I started split dosing it REALLY helped me w/ cravings, night sweats, and just the overall psychological aspects of it.
Hope you get stabilized soon...I know how bad that waiting period sucks when you're sick by the evening, but its so worth it once you get stable and can start rebuilding your life. Good Luck!

Cureforpain
05-12-2011, 05:14 AM
Im glad I dont have the only clinic that is completely ass backwards. It pisses me off so much. For instance, there is this girl who started the same day i did. She was only doing like two bags a day, she told me. Ive been doing like two or three grams a day. Since this girl was totally fine at 60mg and was able to give clean urines, she is now on 130mg and is getting totally high off of it everyday. Meanwhile, I have been struggling everyday. The doc is fully aware of my habit and how hard this has been for me. Fuck, the first day she saw me she told she didnt even think she could help me. wtf? The doctor acted like she was doing me this biggest favor in the world by letting me get to 85 without a clean and thats only because I agreed to attend groups 3 days a week and see my counselor once a week.

On another note, I did end up using last night. First time in like two weeks. I was just so sick of only getting like two hours of sleep a night. I just wanted a full nights worth of sleep so bad, so I shot up a half gram. Im actually really pissed I did that today. And I know I am going to get in trouble for it at the clinic today. Yay. :(

Sweet Jane
05-12-2011, 06:32 AM
Im glad I dont have the only clinic that is completely ass backwards. It pisses me off so much. For instance, there is this girl who started the same day i did. She was only doing like two bags a day, she told me. Ive been doing like two or three grams a day. Since this girl was totally fine at 60mg and was able to give clean urines, she is now on 130mg and is getting totally high off of it everyday. Meanwhile, I have been struggling everyday. The doc is fully aware of my habit and how hard this has been for me. Fuck, the first day she saw me she told she didnt even think she could help me. wtf? The doctor acted like she was doing me this biggest favor in the world by letting me get to 85 without a clean and thats only because I agreed to attend groups 3 days a week and see my counselor once a week.

On another note, I did end up using last night. First time in like two weeks. I was just so sick of only getting like two hours of sleep a night. I just wanted a full nights worth of sleep so bad, so I shot up a half gram. Im actually really pissed I did that today. And I know I am going to get in trouble for it at the clinic today. Yay. :(

Yeah...thats the crap that pisses me off..dosent make any sense at all....
I know several ppl like that...one in particular that was nodding her face off at 50mg, but continued to go up to 150mg so she could get her takehomes and sell the xtra 100mg!!! Its shit like that that gives m-done such a bad name...like everyone on it is a non-functioning zombie all day that sells their dose to ppl naive to done and they end up OD'ing. Maintenance drugs should be left for the ppl that need them....

Really sux you had to go use to just 2feel OK b/c you couldnt get proper treatment from the ppl you're payin to treat ya!! But, dont let this discourage you...hang in there..it'll get better, i promise!

nick
05-12-2011, 06:47 AM
It's warped logic and misplaced priorities.Their concern is,if you're dropping dirty,you're not stable and if they give you more.......they may end up with a corpse on their hands and that's bad for business.

Obviously,this is wrong-as is the no split doing till you drop clean.Hell,it's like they're admitting their clinical skills suck because if they were competent they'd be able to stabilise you without the stupidity and greed.

Business is business after all,huh.

Frankly,I'd look for another clinic or keep NAMA'S number on speed dial.

JUNKYJAY
05-12-2011, 12:45 PM
Nick What is NAMA'S Stand for?

nick
05-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Nick What is NAMA'S Stand for?

I'm pretty sure it's,national alliance of methadone advocats.

but it could be north american methadone advocats.

I'll check.

EDIT, It's the former, http://www.methadone.org

That comes up for national alliance of medical assisted recovery.So,I'm confused(again) what ever the acronym it's the U.S. methadone advocats org.

Not to be confused with NAMBLA.

Cureforpain
05-12-2011, 04:41 PM
hah!...nambla. definitely dont want to be calling them.

norseman
05-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Hey Cureforpain. Its not the best advice, BUT; you could always collect a sample of your clean urine with just methadone in it and store it in the fridge. Then when you go to leave your sample put it in a 20cc syringe, stick the syringe in a hot glass of water on the way to the clinic and bring a thermometer with you and just before you go in to leave your sample make sure your piss is between 91-93F and all should be well.

Its not the best advice, but it has always worked for me in a pinch, and this way you will get your drink up to were you are comfortable and plus you will get carries much quicker and possibly be able to avoid all that group stuff. Although you may find the group meetings beneficial. I don't know what that is all about as my clinic doesn't offer any group shit or counselling at all for that matter.

Cheers!

Vico-Dan
05-15-2011, 10:33 PM
You may be a "fast metabolizer"

Ask your clinic to do a "Peak and Trough" test.

They will test your blood before you dose, make you wait around for a couple of hours after you dose, then take another blood sample.

If the ratio is 2.5:1 or higher, you're a "fast metabolizer" and you can campaign for split dosing, which would be taking half your dose in the AM and being allowed to take the remainder home.