Best Drugs For Insomnia/Recreation

[Levity]

I have terrible insomnia; my mind races, I'm never tired at appropriate times, I don't sleep at night, ect. My doctor and I have ruled out parasomnias like nightmares, sleepwalking, and sleeptalking. My sleep apnea is within normal ranges (everyone has sleep apnea, mine is no worse than anyone else's), so that isn't causing the insomnia. I don't have restless leg syndrome either.

I just can't shut my brain off long enough to fall asleep.

So far I've tried... Lunesta, Sonata, Ambien (5mg and 10mg), Ambien CR, Seroquel, Nortrypltine, Estzasolam, and Temazapm. Only the Ambien 10mg and Temazapam 30mg works to any degree of effectiveness, and even then, not very much or very often.

So, I figure maybe you opiated friends o' mine can offer up some suggestions as to goodies to try?

[Curio]

when I was going through a divorce about 15 years ago, I would step up to the bar and ask the guy serving the drinks if I could have 'the equivalent of a large safe' to be dropped on my head....

course I had a lot of blackouts and amnesia during that time period as well, so those would be your trade-offs!

[Babydollangel]

xanax (alrprazalom) will shut your brain AND your memory off.....:)

[vaxn8]

I am really tough to get to sleep, most of the regular stuff doesn't knock me out but the following 2 did.

First, ambien at a higher dose. I am not positive what the dose was, it was several years ago, but it was rx'd at a higher than normal dose and it worked, i was shocked. I liked it because it didn't have a hangover effect.

Second, amitriptylene. Again, at a very high dose, but it did knock me out. Unfortunately horrible morning after effects - zombie-like!

Third and maybe the best since you haven't tried is chloral hydrate. That's the stuff they are talking about when they "slip someone a Mickey". That is some seriously strong shit! A few times I took way too much and don't have a clue what i did for 3 or 4 days. I definitely didn't show up at work, but i don't remember a thing. At a slightly higher than normal dose it knocked me out for the night. The downside is it tastes horrible. It is a liquid and a nasty one, even mixed with juice as recommended! :vomit: :vomit2:

[Levity]

Would it be appropriate to ask my (legit) doctor to prescribe Xanax?

Chloral hydrate interfers with liver function and cause liver damage. I damage my liver enough without adding this on top of it.

Amitriptyline (Elavil) probably won't work since Seroquel and Nortrypltine didn't. These drugs are virtually psycho-chemicaly identical.

So I may request some Doggy-Bones, as Xanax is called here. Any other recomendations?

[HeidiW]

I would suggest Halcion for insomnia. It's an excellent benzo. I sure wish Placidyl was still around. I can't find any pharmacy that can get it.

[Babydollangel]

Would it be appropriate to ask my (legit) doctor to prescribe Xanax?

Chloral hydrate interfers with liver function and cause liver damage. I damage my liver enough without adding this on top of it.

Amitriptyline (Elavil) probably won't work since Seroquel and Nortrypltine didn't. These drugs are virtually psycho-chemicaly identical.

So I may request some Doggy-Bones, as Xanax is called here. Any other recomendations?

hmm how to request it?? i dunno how to ask for it per say (i have GAD and have to take it to ward off panic attacks)
I do know you can buy them on the streets or if you know the right person ...(disclaimer here : not advocating that just stating facts !)
I DO know that xanax will do the trick for you for sure !! cure that insomnia right up as well as add in amnesia ...lol
try to stick to lowest effective dose of x. though.. lots of bad stuff could happen if you dont... also never drink while taking it.
just gotta think of a way to ask dr for it i guess....maybe say you have a friend whom it has worked wonders for the insomnia and maybe that youd like to try it being that youve already tried other things that he/she prescribed that isnt working..
I hear alot of people talk about ambien and sonata and i have taken both and neither of them help with my insomnia at all. I also have some temazapam (thinkin it has xanax in it) and it doesnt help me like the x. does BUT it might be that its a small dosage thus not effective for me since i take x. regularly anyways.
hope this helps some. If you need help or info on xanax (alprazalom) feel free to pm me as i know this drug WELL. I did lots of research on it while trying to wean myself off of it several months ago..(now im on it again).
anyways, just tryin to help some here.

[chemboy7]

I would suggest Halcion for insomnia. It's an excellent benzo. I sure wish Placidyl was still around. I can't find any pharmacy that can get it.

If the Temazapam didn't do the trick Halcion wont be of much use.

[Babydollangel]

I would suggest Halcion for insomnia. It's an excellent benzo. I sure wish Placidyl was still around. I can't find any pharmacy that can get it.

I have heard of halcion but I think it was for some other purpose than anxiety or insomnia ....never heard of placidyl but sure wish there was a way to request some of these meds ( for legit reasons) without sounding like *you know a little too much* (or is that what they call drug seeking behaviour! ha. anyways I have discovered the more educated you appear (and i am one of these that will get prescribed a med and look it up in my pill ref guide as well as online just to find out all i can about it) but the more informed you are the more they act as if you are trying to just get drugs !! pisses me off so much !

[ZodiacKiller]

I have terrible insomnia; my mind races, I'm never tired at appropriate times, I don't sleep at night, ect. My doctor and I have ruled out parasomnias like nightmares, sleepwalking, and sleeptalking. My sleep apnea is within normal ranges (everyone has sleep apnea, mine is no worse than anyone else's), so that isn't causing the insomnia. I don't have restless leg syndrome either.

I just can't shut my brain off long enough to fall asleep.

So far I've tried... Lunesta, Sonata, Ambien (5mg and 10mg), Ambien CR, Seroquel, Nortrypltine, Estzasolam, and Temazapm. Only the Ambien 10mg and Temazapam 30mg works to any degree of effectiveness, and even then, not very much or very often.

So, I figure maybe you opiated friends o' mine can offer up some suggestions as to goodies to try?

I'm assuming you only have this problem when you're not opiated, correct? If that's the case, I share your plight. I take Bupe during the week and binge on weekends---no problem sleeping while fuckered up, it's during the week on Subutex that I have the same problem. I'm lucky to get 3 hours a night, and that's usually interrupted.

Since me and the wife have been in the Sub program, the doc had been prescribing benzos, usually Temazepam 30mg, which didn't really help in getting solid sleep, but was great for other WD symptoms such as anxiety. 'Till today, that is---he put us both on a trial-run (7 days worth) of Rozarem, which is something new (I've seen TV commercials). I haven't looked over the info sheet that came with it, or even tried it yet---which I won't do 'till Monday, because today is Friday=Heroin time, yay!

But I will post here to let you know how/if it works. I have a feeling it won't, and even if it does, I'm gonna tell my docc it doesn't, because dammit, I want my benzos!

Anyway, long story short: it's called Rozarem, and that's all I know, sorry...:rolleyes:


ZK

[nick]

I just love the names of pills in the US."Better living through chemistry" should be your national motto.

[ZodiacKiller]

I just love the names of pills in the US."Better living through chemistry" should be your national motto.

That's my personal motto, that's for sure, except for maybe "humans suck" but that's a whole 'nother can of worms, heheh.

But yeah, the names they're coming up with are so fuckin' stupid. My favorite is the one for some bone-strengthening drug called "Bonesta". Who comes up with this shit, I wonder...


ZK

[HeidiW]

If the Temazapam didn't do the trick Halcion wont be of much use.
Good point. Temazapam is Restoril, correct?

[bronyraur]

Have you tried Trazadone? It's technically an antidepressant, but it is guranteed to knock just about anyone out. The brand name is Desyrel. It worked for me when all the traditional stuff failed. It does have a very slight morning hangover which is dose related (higher the dose=greater the hangover)

[orangejuice]

They prescribe trazadone to alot of addicts that go through treatment centers. I was prescribed 100mg at night for the 30 dayz i was in and it didnt really help me. I have no tolerance to any benzo or sleeping pill for that matter, just coming off alot of methadone. All im sayin is trazadone really didnt help me much. it did however make me tired as fuck real fast, but that didnt last long enough for me to fall asleep. But like i said im doinn a lot of methadone and those fuckin w/ds are the fukkn reaper...

[OpieContin]

Have you tried Dalmane? Not sure of the generic name, if I was not so lazy I would google it but maybe you can if interested. They are red and beige capsules and the ones I used to get said Roche30 on them. Damn those fuckers could knock out an elephant. It did leave me way groggy the next day and very fuzzy. Might be worth a try. Good luck with them.

O.

[clinton]

this might give you some answers

Letter From A Master Addict To Dangerous Drugs

British Journal of Addiction, Vol. 53, No. 2

August 3rd, 1956

Venice

Dear Doctor,


Thanks for your letter. I enclose that article on the effects of various drugs I have used. I do not know if it is suitable for your publication. I have no objection to my name being used.

No difficulty with drinking. no desire to use any drug. General health excellent. Please give my regards to Mr.----. I use his system of exercises daily with excellent results.

I have been thinking of writing a book on narcotic drugs if I could find a suitable collaborator to handle the technical end.

Yours,

William Burroughs.


The use of opium and opium derivatives leads to a state that defines limits and describes "addiction"--(The term is loosely used to indicate anything one is used to or wants. We speak of addiction to candy, coffee, tobacco, warm weather, television, detective stories, crossword puzzles). So misapplied the term loses any useful precision of meaning. The use of morphine leads to a metabolic dependence on morphine. Morphine becomes a biologic need just as water and the user may die if he is suddenly deprived of it. The diabetic will die without insulin, but he is not addicted to insulin. His need for insulin was not brought about by the use of insulin. He needs insulin to maintain a normal metabolism, and so avoid the excruciatingly painful return to a normal metabolism.

I have used a number of "narcotic" drugs over a period of twenty years. Some of these drugs are addicting in the above sense. Most are not:


Opiates.--Over a period of twelve years I have used opium, smoked and taken orally (injection in the skin causes abscesses. Injection in the vein is unpleasant and perhaps dangerous), heroin injected in skin, vein, muscle, sniffed (when no needle was available), morphine, dilaudid, pantopon, eukodol, paracodine, dionine, codeine, demerol, methodone. They are all habit forming in varying degree. Nor does it make much difference how the drug is administered, smoked, sniffed, injected, taken orally, inserted in rectal suppositories, the end result will be the same: addiction. And a smoking habit is as difficult to break as an intravenous injection habit. The concept that injection habits are particularly injurious derives from an irrational fear of needles--("Injections poison the blood stream"-- as though the blood stream were any less poisoned by substances absorbed from the stomach, the lungs or the mucous membrane). Demerol is probably less addicting than morphine. It is also less satisfying to the addict, and less effective as a pain killer. While a demerol habit is easier to break than a morphine habit, demerol is certainly more injurious to the health and specifically to the nervous system. I once used demerol for three months and developed a number of distressing symptoms: trembling hands (with morphine my hands are always steady), progressive loss of coordination, muscular contractions, paranoid obsessions, fear of insanity. Finally I contracted and opportune intolerance for demerol--no doubt a measure of self preservation--and switched to methodone. Immediately all my symptoms disappeared. I may add that demerol is quite as constipating as morphine, that it exerts an even more depressing effect on the appetite and the sexual functions, does not, however, contract the pupils. I have given myself thousands of injections over a period of years with unsterilized, in fact dirty, needles and never sustained an infection until I used demerol. Then I came down with a series of abscesses one of which had to be lanced and drained. In short demerol seems to me a more dangerous drug than morphine. Methodone is completely satisfying to the addict, an excellent pain killer, at least as addicting as morphine.

I have taken morphine for acute pain. Any opiate that effectively relieves pain to an equal degree relieves withdrawal symptoms. The conclusion is obvious: Any opiate that relieves pain is habit forming, and the more effectively it relieves pain the more habit forming it is. The habit forming molecule, and the pain killing molecule of morphine are probably identical, and the process by which morphine relieves pain is the same process that leads to tolerance and addiction. Non habit forming morphine appears to be a latter day Philosopher's Stone. On the other hand variations of apomorphine may prove extremely effective in controlling the withdrawal syndrome. But we should not expect this drug to be a pain killer as well.

The phenomena of morphine addiction are well known and there is no reason to go over them here. A few points, it seems to me, have received insufficient attention: The metabolic incompatibility between morphine and alcohol has been observed, but no one, so far as I know, has advanced an explanation. If a morphine addict drinks alcohol he experiences no agreeable or euphoric sensations. There is a feeling of slowly mounting discomfort, and the need for another injection. The alcohol seems to be short-circuited perhaps by the liver. I once attempted to drink in a state of incomplete recovery from an attack of jaundice (I was not using morphine at this time). The metabolic sensation was identical. In one case the liver was partly out of action from jaundice, in the other preoccupied, literally, by a morphine metabolism. In neither case could it metabolize alcohol. If an alcoholic becomes addicted to morphine, morphine invariably and completely displaces alcohol. I have known several alcoholics who began using morphine. They were able to tolerate large doses of morphine immediately (1 grain to a shot) without ill effects, and in a matter of days stopped taking alcohol. The reverse never occurs. The morphine addict can not tolerate alcohol when he is using morphine or suffering from morphine withdrawal. The ability to tolerate alcohol is a sure sign of disintoxication. In consequence alcohol can never be substituted for morphine directly. Of course a disintoxicated addict may start drinking and become an alcoholic.

During withdrawal the addict is acutely aware of his surroundings. Sense impressions are sharpened to the point of hallucination. Familiar objects seem to stir with a writhing furtive life. The addict is subject to a barrage of sensations external and visceral. He may experience flashes of beauty and nostalgia, but the overall impression is extremely painful--(Possibly his sensations are painful because of their intensity. A pleasurable sensation may become intolerable after a certain intensity is reached.)

I have noticed two special reactions of early withdrawal: (1) Everything looks threatening; (2) mild paranoia. The doctors and nurses appear as monsters of evil. In the course of several cures, I have felt myself surrounded by dangerous lunatics. I talked with one of Dr. Dent's patients who had just undergone disintoxication for a pithidine habit. He reported an identical experience, told me that for 24 hours the nurses and the doctor "seemed brutal and repugnant." And everything looked blue. And I have talked with other addicts who experienced the same reactions. Now the psychological basis for paranoid notions during withdrawal is obvious. The specific similarity of these reactions indicates a common metabolic origin. The similarity between withdrawal phenomena and certain states of drug intoxication, is striking. Hashish, Bannisteria Caapi (Hamaline), Peyote (Mescaline) produce states of acute sensitivity, with hallucinatory viewpoint. Everything looks alive. Paranoid ideas are frequent. Bannisteria Caapi intoxication specifically reproduces the state of withdrawal. Everything looks threatening. Paranoid ideas are marked, especially with overdose. After taking Bannisteria Caapi, I was convinced that the Medicine Man and his apprentice were conspiring to murder me. It seems that metabolic states of the body can reproduce the effects of various drugs.

In the U.S.A. heroin addicts are receiving an involuntary reduction cure from the pushers who progressively dilute their wares with milk sugar and barbiturates. As a result many of the addicts who seek treatment are lightly addicted so they can be completely disintoxicated in a short time (7 to 8 days). They recover rapidly without medication. Meanwhile any tranquilizing, anti-allergic, or sedative drug, will afford some relief, especially if injected. The addict feels better if he knows that some alien substance is coursing through his blood stream. Tolserol, Thorazine and related "tranquillizers," every variety of barbiturate, Chloral and Paraldehyde, anti-histamines, cortisone, reserpine, even shock (can lobotomy be far behind?) have all been used with results usually described as "encouraging." My own experience suggests that these results be accepted with some reserve. Of course, symptomatic treatment is indicated, and all these drugs (with possible exception of the drug most commonly used: barbiturates) have a place in the treatment of the withdrawal syndrome. But none of these drugs is in itself the answer to withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms vary with individual metabolism and physical type. Pigeon chested, hay fever and asthma liable individuals suffer greatly from allergic symptoms during withdrawal: running nose, sneezing, smarting, watering eyes, difficulty in breathing. In such cases cortisone, and anti-histamine drugs may afford definite relief. Vomiting could probably be controlled with anti-nausea drugs like thorazine.

I have undergone ten "cures" in the course of which all these drugs were used. I have taken quick reductions, slow reductions, prolonged sleep, apomorphine, antihistamines, a French system involving a worthless product known as "amorphine," everything but shock. (I would be interested to hear results of further experiments with shock treatment on somebody else.) The success of any treatment depends on the degree and duration of addiction, the stage of withdrawal (drugs which are effective in late or light withdrawal can be disastrous in the acute phase) individual symptoms, health, age, etc. A method of treatment might be completely ineffective at one time, but give excellent results at another. Or a treatment that does me no good may help someone else. I do not presume to pass any final judgements, only to report my own reactions to various drugs and methods of treatment.

Reductions Cures.--This is the commonest form of treatment, and no method yet discovered can entirely replace it in cases of severe addiction. The patient must have some morphine. If there is one rule that applies to all cases of addiction this is it. But the morphine should be withdrawn as quickly as possible. I have taken slow reduction cures and in every case the result was discouragement and eventual relapse. Imperceptible reduction is likely to be endless reduction. When the addict seeks cure, he has, in most cases, already experienced withdrawal symptoms many times. He expects an unpleasant ordeal and he is prepared to endure it. But if the pain of withdrawal is spread over two months instead of ten days he may not be able to endure it. It is not the intensity but the duration of pain that breaks the will to resist. If the addict habitually takes any quantity, however small, of any opiate to alleviate the weakness, insomnia, boredom, restlessness, of late withdrawal, the withdrawal symptoms will be prolonged indefinitely and complete relapse is almost certain.

Prolonged Sleep.--The theory sounds good. You go to sleep and wake up cured. Industrial doses of chloral hydrate, barbiturates, thorazine, only produced a nightmare state of semi-consciousness. Withdrawal of sedation, after 5 days, occasioned a severe shock. Symptoms of acute morphine deprivation supervened. The end result was a combined syndrome of unparalleled horror. No cure I ever took was as painful as this allegedly painless method. The cycle of sleep and wakefulness is always deeply disturbed during withdrawal. To further disturb it with massive sedation seems contraindicated to say the least. Withdrawal of morphine is sufficiently traumatic without adding to it withdrawal of barbiturates. After two weeks in the hospital (five days sedation, ten days "rest") I was still so weak that I fainted when I tried to walk up a slight incline. I consider prolonged sleep the worst possible method of treating withdrawal.

Anti-histamines.--The use of anti-histamines is based on the allergic theory of withdrawal. Sudden withdrawal of morphine precipitates and overproduction of histamine with consequent allergic symptoms. (In shock resulting from traumatic injury with acute pain large quantities of histamine are released in the blood. In acute pain as in addiction toxic doses of morphine are readily tolerated. Rabbits, who have a high histamine content in the blood, are extremely resistant to morphine.) My own experience with anti-histamines has not been conclusive. I once took a cure in which anti-histamines were used, and the results were good. But I was lightly addicted at that time, and had been without morphine for 72 hours when the cure started. I have frequently used anti-histamines since then for withdrawal symptoms with disappointing results. In fact they seem to increase my depression and irritability (I do not suffer from typical allergic symptoms).

Apomorphine.--Apomorphine is certainly the best method of treating withdrawal that I have experienced. It does not completely eliminate the withdrawal symptoms, but reduces them to an endurable level. The acute symptoms such as stomach and leg cramps, convulsive or manic states are completely controlled. In fact apomorphine treatment involves less discomfort than a reduction cure. Recovery is more rapid and more complete. I feel that I was never completely cured of the craving for morphine until I took apomorphine treatment. Perhaps the "psychological" craving for morphine that persists after a cure is not psychological at all, but metabolic. More potent variations of the apomorphine formula might prove qualitatively more effective in treating all forms of addiction.

Cortisone.--Cortisone seems to give some relief especially when injected intravenously.

Thorazine.--Provides some relief from withdrawal symptoms, but not much. Side effects of depression, disturbances of vision, indigestion offset dubious benefits.

Reserpine.--I never noticed an effect whatever from this drug except a slight depression.

Tolserol.--Negligible results.

Barbiturates.--It is common practice to prescribe barbiturates for the insomnia of withdrawal. Actually the use of barbiturates delays the return of normal sleep, prolongs the whole period of withdrawal, and may lead to relapse. (The addict is tempted to take a little codeine or paregoric with his nembutal. Very small quantities of opiates, that would be quite innocuous for a normal person, immediately re-establish addiction in a cured addict.) My experience certainly confirms Dr. Dent's statement that barbiturates are contraindicated.

Chloral and paraldehyde.--Probably preferable to barbiturates if a sedative is necessary, but most addicts will vomit up paraldehyde at once. I have also tried on my own initiative, the following drugs during withdrawal:

Alcohol.--Absolutely contraindicated at any stage of withdrawal. The use of alcohol invariably exacerbates the withdrawal symptoms and leads to relapse. Alcohol can only be tolerated after metabolism returns to normal. This usually takes one month in cases of severe addiction.

Benzedrine.--May relieve temporarily the depression of late withdrawal, disastrous during acute withdrawal, contraindicated at any stage because it produces a state of nervousness for which morphine is the physiological answer.

Cocaine.--The above goes double for cocaine.

Cannabis indica (marijuana).--In late or light withdrawal relieves depression and increases the appetite, in acute withdrawal an unmitigated disaster. (I once smoked marijuana during early withdrawal with nightmarish results.) Cannabis is a sensitizer. If you feel bad already it will make you feel worse. Contraindicated.

Peyote, Bannisteria caapi.-- I have not ventured to experiment. The thought of Bannisteria intoxication superimposed on acute withdrawal makes the brain reel. I know of a man who substituted peyote during late withdrawal, claimed to lose all desire for morphine, ultimately died of peyote poisoning.

In cases of severe addictions, definite, physical, withdrawal symptoms persist for one month at least.

I have never seen or heard of a psychotic morphine addict, I mean anyone who showed psychotic symptoms while addicted to an opiate. In fact addicts are drearily sane. Perhaps there is a metabolic incompatibility between schizophrenia and opiate addiction. On the other hand the withdrawal of morphine often precipitates psychotic reactions--usually mild paranoia. Interesting that drugs and methods of treatment that give results in schizophrenia, are also of some use in withdrawal: anti-histamines, tranquillizers, apomorphine, shock.

Sir Charles Sherington defines pain as "the psychic adjunct of an imperative protective reflex."

The vegetative nervous system expands and contracts in response to visceral rhythms and external stimuli, expanding to stimuli which are experienced as pleasurable--sex, food, agreeable social contacts, etc.--contracting from pain, anxiety, fear, discomfort, boredom. Morphine alters the whole cycle of expansion and contraction, release and tension. The sexual function is deactivated, peristalsis inhibited, the pupils cease to react in response to light and darkness. The organism neither contracts from pain nor expands to normal sources of pleasure. It adjusts to a morphine cycle. The addict is immune to boredom. He can look at his shoe for hours or simply stay in bed. He needs no sexual outlet, no social contacts, now work, no diversion, no exercise, nothing but morphine. Morphine may relieve pain by imparting to the organism some of the qualities of a plant. (Pain could have no function for plants which are, for the most part, stationary, incapable of protective reflexes.)

Scientists look for a non-habit forming morphine that will kill pain without giving pleasure, addicts want--or think they want--euphoria without addiction. I do not see how the functions of morphine can be separated, I think that any effective pain killer will depress the sexual function, induce euphoria and cause addiction. The perfect pain killer would probably be immediately habit forming. (If anyone is interested to develop such a drug, dehydro-oxyheroin might be a good place to start.)

The addict exists in a painless, sexless, timeless state. Transition back to the rhythms of animal life involves the withdrawal syndrome. I doubt if this transition can ever be made in comfort. Painless withdrawal can only be approached.


Cocaine.--Cocaine is the most exhilarating drug I have ever used. The euphoria centres in the head. Perhaps the drug activates pleasure connections directly in the brain. I suspect that an electric current in the right place would produce the same effect. The full exhilaration of cocaine can only be realised by an intravenous injection. The pleasurable effects do not last more than five or ten minutes. If the drug is injected in the skin, rapid elimination vitiates the effects. This goes double for sniffing.

It is standard practice for cocaine users to sit up all night shooting cocaine at one minute intervals, alternating with shots of heroin, or cocaine and heroin mixed in the same injection to form a "speed ball." (I have never known an habitual cocaine user who was not a morphine addict.)

The desire for cocaine can be intense. I have spent whole days walking from one drug store to another to fill a cocaine prescription. You may want cocaine intensely , but you don't have any metabolic need for it. If you can't get cocaine you eat, you go to sleep and forget it. I have talked with people who used cocaine for years, then were suddenly cut off from their supply. None of them experienced any withdrawal symptoms. Indeed it is difficult to see how a front brain stimulant could be addicting. Addiction seems to be a monopoly of sedatives.

Continued use of cocaine leads to nervousness, depression, sometimes drug psychosis with paranoid hallucinations. The nervousness and depression resulting from cocaine use are not alleviated by more cocaine. They are effectively relieved by morphine. The use of cocaine by a morphine addict, always leads to larger and more frequent injections of morphine.


Cannabis Indica (hashish, marijuana).--The effects of this drug have been frequently and luridly described: disturbance of space-time perception, acute sensitivity to impressions, flight of ideas, laughing jags, silliness. Marijuana is a sensitizer, and the results are not always pleasant. It makes a bad situation worse. Depression becomes despair, anxiety panic. I have already mentioned my horrible experience with marijuana during acute morphine withdrawal. I once gave marijuana to a guest who was mildly anxious about something ("On bum kicks" as he put it). After smoking half a cigarette he suddenly leapt to his feet screaming "I got the fear!" and rushed out of the house.

An especially unnerving feature of marijuana intoxication is a disturbance of the affective orientation. You do not know whether you like something or not, whether a sensation is pleasant or unpleasant.

The use of marijuana varies greatly with the individual. Some smoke it constantly, some occasionally, not a few dislike it intensely. It seems to be especially unpopular with confirmed morphine addicts, many of whom take a puritanical view of marijuana smoking.

The ill effects of marijuana have been grossly exaggerated in the U.S. Our national drug is alcohol. We tend to regard the use of any other drug with special horror. Anyone given to these alien vices deserves the complete ruin of his mind and body. People believe what they want to believe without regard for the facts. Marijuana is not habit forming. I have never seen evidence of any ill effects from moderate use. Drug psychosis may result from prolonged and excessive use.


Barbiturates.--The barbiturates are definitely addicting if taken in large quantities over any period of time (about a gramme a day will cause addiction). Withdrawal syndrome is more dangerous than morphine withdrawal, consisting of hallucinations with epilepsy type convulsions. Addicts often injure themselves flopping about on concrete floors (concrete floors being a usual corollary of abrupt withdrawal). Morphine addicts often take barbiturates to potentiate inadequate morphine rations. Some of them become barbiturate addicts as well.

I once took two nembutal capsules (one an a half grain each) every night for four months and suffered no withdrawal symptoms. Barbiturate addiction is a question of quantity. It is probably not a metabolic addiction like morphine, but a mechanical reaction from excessive front brain sedation.

The barbiturate addict presents a shocking spectacle. He can not coordinate, he staggers, falls off bar stools, goes to sleep in the middle of a sentence, drops food out of his mouth. He is confused, quarrelsome and stupid. And he almost always uses other drugs, anything he can lay hands on: alcohol, benzedrene, opiates, marijuana. Barbiturate users are looked down on in addict society: "Goof ball bums. They got no class to them." The next step down is coal gas and milk, or sniffing ammonia in a bucket--"The scrub woman's kick."

It seems to me that barbiturates cause the worst possible form of addiction, unsightly, deteriorating, difficult to treat.


Benzedrene.--This is a cerebral stimulant like cocaine. Large doses cause prolonged sleeplessness with feelings of exhilaration. The period of euphoria is followed by a horrible depression. The drug tends to increase anxiety. It causes indigestion and loss of appetite.

I know of only one case where definite symptoms followed the withdrawal of benzedrene. This was a woman of my acquaintance who used incredible quantities of benzedrene for six months. During this period she developed a drug psychosis and was hospitalized for ten days. She continued the use of benzedrene, but was suddenly cut off. She suffered an asthma type seizure. She could not get her breath and turned blue. I gave her a dose of anti-histamine (thepherene) which afforded immediate relief. The symptoms did not return.


Peyote (mescaline).--This is undoubtedly a stimulant. It dilates the pupils, keeps one awake. Peyote is extremely nauseating. Users experience difficulty keeping it down long enough to realize the effect, which is similar, in some respects, to marijuana. There is increased sensitivity to impression, especially to colours. Peyote intoxication causes a peculiar vegetable consciousness or identification with the plant. Everything looks like a peyote plant. It is easy to understand why the Indians believe there is a resident spirit in the peyote cactus.

Overdose of peyote may lead to respiratory paralysis and death. I know of one case. There is no reason to believe that peyote is addicting.


Bannisteria caapi (Harmaline, Banisterine, Telepathine). -- Bannisteria caapi is a fast growing vine. The active principle is apparently found throughout the wood of the fresh cut vine. The inner bark is considered most active, and the leaves are never used. It takes a considerable quantity of the vine to feel the full effects of the drug. About five pieces of vine each eight inches long are needed for one person. The vine is crushed and boiled for two or more hours with the leaves of a bush identified as Palicourea sp. rubiaceae.

Yage or Ayuahuaska (the most commonly used Indian names for Bannisteria caapi) is a hallucinating narcotic that produces a profound derangement of the senses. In overdose it is a strong convulsant poison. The antidote is a barbiturate or other strong, anti-convulsant sedative. Anyone taking Yage for the first time should have a sedative ready in the even of an overdose.

The hallucinating properties of Yage have led to its use by Medicine Men to potentiate their powers. They also use it as a cure-all in the treatment of various illnesses. Yage lowers the body temperature and consequently is of some use in the treatment of fever. It is a powerful antihelminthic, indicated for treatment of stomach or intestinal worms. Yage induces a state of conscious anaesthesia, and is used in rites where the initiates must undergo a painful ordeal like whipping with knotted vines, or exposure to the sting of ants.

So far as I could discover only the fresh cut vine is active. I found no way to dry, extract or preserve the active principal. No tinctures proved active. The dried vine is completely inert. The pharmacology of Yage requires laboratory research. Since the crude extract is such a powerful, hallucinating narcotic, perhaps even more spectacular results could be obtained with synthetic variations. Certainly the matter warrants further research.[1]

I did not observe any ill effects that could be attributed to the use of Yage. The Medicine Men who use it continuously in the line of duty seem to enjoy normal health. Tolerance is soon acquired so that one can drink the extract without nausea or other ill effect.

Yage is a unique narcotic. Yage intoxication is in some respects similar to intoxication with hashish. In both instances there is a shift of viewpoint, an extension of consciousness beyond ordinary experience. But Yage produces a deeper derangement of the senses with actual hallucinations. Blue flashes in front of the eyes is peculiar to Yage intoxication.

There is a wide range of attitude in regard to Yage. Many Indians and most White users seem to regard it simply as another intoxicant like liquor. In other groups it has ritual use and significance. Among the Jivaro young men take Yage to contact the spirits of their ancestors and get a briefing for their future life. It is used during initiations to anaesthetize the initiates for painful ordeals. All Medicine Men use it in their practice to foretell the future, locate lost or stolen objects, name the perpetrator of a crime, to diagnose and treat illness.

The alkaloid of Bannisteria caapi was isolated in 1923 by Fisher Cardenas. He called the alkaloid Telepathine alternately Banisterine. Rumf showed that Telepathine was identical with Harmine, the alkaloid of Perganum Harmala.

Bannisteria caapi is evidently not habit forming.

Nutmeg.--Convicts and sailors sometimes have recourse to nutmeg. About a teaspoon is swallowed with water. Results are vaguely similar to marijuana with side effects of headache and nausea. Death would probably supervene before addiction if such addiction is possible. I have only taken nutmeg once.

There are a number of narcotics of the nutmeg family in use among the Indians of South America. They are usually administered by sniffing a dried powder of the plant. The Medicine Men take these noxious substances, and go into convulsive states. Their twitching and mutterings are thought to have prophetic significance. A friend of mine was violently sick for three days after experimenting with a drug of the nutmeg family in South America.


Datura-scopolamine.--Morphine addicts are frequently poisoned by taking morphine in combination with scopolamine.

I once obtained some ampoules each of which contained one-sixth grain of morphine and one-hundredth grain of scopolamine. Thinking that one-hundredth grain was a negligible quantity, I took six ampoules in one injection. The result was a psychotic state lasting some hours during which I was opportunely restrained by my long suffering landlord. I remembered nothing the following day.

Drugs of the datura group are used by the Indians of South America and Mexico. Fatalities are said to be frequent.

Scopolamine has been used by the Russians as a confession drug with dubious results. The subject may be willing to reveal his secrets, but quite unable to remember them. Often cover story and secret information are inextricably garbled. I understand that mescaline has been very successful in extracting information from suspects.


Morphine addiction is a metabolic illness brought about by the use of morphine. In my opinion psychological treatment is not only useless it is contraindicated. Statistically the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia where opium is sold without control, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psycho-analyser several million Persians to find out what deep conflicts and anxieties have driven them to the use of opium? I think not. According to my experience most addicts are not neurotic and do not need psychotherapy. Apomorphine treatment and access to apomorphine in the event of relapse would certainly give a higher percentage of permanent cures than any programme of "psychological rehabilitation."


1 Since this was published I have discovered that the alkaloid of Bannisteria are closely related to LSD6, which has been used to produce experimental psychosis. I think they are up to LSD25 already.

[pointed]

this might give you some answers

Letter From A Master Addict To Dangerous Drugs

British Journal of Addiction, Vol. 53, No. 2



From the master himself! That was very interesting. I was particularly interested that he found many opiate addicts don't care for weed. I hate the stuff, and I have met many other heroin addicts who feel the same way. It seems to be almost a universal. In fact, the only junky that I have ever personally known who liked weed is my ex fiance. He claimed that it took the edge off w/ds.

I was surprised that anyone would use datura recreationally! Powerful hallucinogenic and if I recall correctly, herbal healers used it to treat heart ailments way back when. Very powerful stuff! Could kill you if you weren't careful.

[pointed]

I have terrible insomnia; my mind races, I'm never tired at appropriate times, I don't sleep at night, ect. My doctor and I have ruled out parasomnias like nightmares, sleepwalking, and sleeptalking. My sleep apnea is within normal ranges (everyone has sleep apnea, mine is no worse than anyone else's), so that isn't causing the insomnia. I don't have restless leg syndrome either.

I just can't shut my brain off long enough to fall asleep.

So far I've tried... Lunesta, Sonata, Ambien (5mg and 10mg), Ambien CR, Seroquel, Nortrypltine, Estzasolam, and Temazapm. Only the Ambien 10mg and Temazapam 30mg works to any degree of effectiveness, and even then, not very much or very often.

So, I figure maybe you opiated friends o' mine can offer up some suggestions as to goodies to try?

I'm an insomniac too, although it is kinda an intermittent thing for me. Yikes, you took Seroquel? That is some rough stuff. This will sound rather strange, but - I find Thorazine to be effective. If you take enough Thorazine, you should sleep fairly well. Are you sensitive to antihistimines at all? They make some people quite sleepy. (I am not familiar with Nortrypltine and Estzasolam; don't know what kind of meds they are. For a straight up sopoforic, I am partial to Ambien.) Oh! Eureka! This will not fix your sleeping habits, but it might give you some great, healthy, and restful sleep - acupuncture! That is one of those things that works well for some and not so well for others. I always get a wonderful and more importantly, restful nap out of it. Getting an hour of good sleep is better than getting none. Have you tried reading yourself to sleep? My insomnia is very similar to yours in that I can't shut my brain off. Even when my insomnia is not active, I must read myself to exhaustion every night else I start thinking and the brain just spins and spins. Rarely, if I physically exhaust myself during the day, I can avoid reading but not often. (Not like I'd want to anyway! :-) I deeply sympathize with you. Good luck, Levity.

[Paregoric Kid]

antihistamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, chloral hydrate, alcohol, ether, ambien, zopiclone, etc.

[ZodiacKiller]

Great article, Clinton---you should submit it to bi11i for possible use in the "project". I enjoyed it immensely.

I just hope the OP doesn't think it derailed his thread and get mad. If so, we'll find another place for it.



ZK

[Zoop]

Personally, I swear by Sonata, I love it. Don't love the amnesia that always comes with it, though, but if you still got some, it's fuckin way cool to sniff 'em. Try sniffin' up the powder from one capsule up each nostril, I mean sniff two capsules - then 10mg ones. If you got 5mg ones, then do four. It's a trippy drug, no lie.

As most of the people on this forum know, Ambien and Sonata are similar, but I haven't gotten this effect from sniffing sonata (shooting the ambien is another story - ugh! Just thinking about it makes me feel nauseated).

Anyways, as far as not bein' able to get to sleep, if you've tried all of that shit, then chloral hydrate might work - it's some wild stuff. Been around since the late 1800's.

Even more likely, though, if you've tried all of those drugs and they don't work for your insomnia, then they doctor ought to be willing to prescribe a barbiturate to you. Butisol (that's the brand name - drug is called butabarbital sodium) is a C-III barb (the only C-III barbiturate in the U.S.) which is still sometime, rarely though, used. Doctor could call that one in over the phone. Better yet would be good ol' nembutal (pentobarbital) or seconal (secobarbital), although seconal wouldn't last long enough for a full 8 hour's sleep. Both nembutal and seconal are C-II drugs, which requires a written prescription form the physician. You'd probably have a difficult time locating a pharmacy that actually has some of these drugs in stock because they're so rarely used, but I bet two capsules of nembutal would knock you right the fuck out.

Last one, as far as barbs go, is a brand-name drug called "Phrenilin," which is prescribed for migraines. It has butalbital, a barbiturate, in it (it lasts 4-6 hours). Now phrenilin is like fioricet/fiorinal because it is for migraines and has butalbital and APAP in it, but I wouldn't try fioricet or fiorinal because both have caffeine in them, the last thing you need to take if you're trying to get some sleep. Phrenilin is just butlabital and APAP (I think it's 50mg of the barb and 325 of APAP). And the kicker is phrenilin is not a controlled substance. Neither is fioricet, although fiorinal is (the only diff. b/tw fioricet and fiorinal is fiorinal has aspirin instead of APAP in it - the rest, butalbital and caffeine, is the same).

To summarize, I'd try and get some barbiturate drugs from your doc. First choice would be nembutal (pentobarbital), second would be butisol (butabarbital sodium) third would be seconal (secobarbital, because it does't last that long).

Chloral hydrate used to be available in capsules (look like pretty green jelly beans) or in syrup. Now it's only available in syrup. Tastes nasty as hell.

[Babydollangel]

Personally, I swear by Sonata, I love it. Don't love the amnesia that always comes with it, though, but if you still got some, it's fuckin way cool to sniff 'em. Try sniffin' up the powder from one capsule up each nostril, I mean sniff two capsules - then 10mg ones. If you got 5mg ones, then do four. It's a trippy drug, no lie.

As most of the people on this forum know, Ambien and Sonata are similar, but I haven't gotten this effect from sniffing sonata (shooting the ambien is another story - ugh! Just thinking about it makes me feel nauseated).

Anyways, as far as not bein' able to get to sleep, if you've tried all of that shit, then chloral hydrate might work - it's some wild stuff. Been around since the late 1800's.

Even more likely, though, if you've tried all of those drugs and they don't work for your insomnia, then they doctor ought to be willing to prescribe a barbiturate to you. Butisol (that's the brand name - drug is called butabarbital sodium) is a C-III barb (the only C-III barbiturate in the U.S.) which is still sometime, rarely though, used. Doctor could call that one in over the phone. Better yet would be good ol' nembutal (pentobarbital) or seconal (secobarbital), although seconal wouldn't last long enough for a full 8 hour's sleep. Both nembutal and seconal are C-II drugs, which requires a written prescription form the physician. You'd probably have a difficult time locating a pharmacy that actually has some of these drugs in stock because they're so rarely used, but I bet two capsules of nembutal would knock you right the fuck out.

Last one, as far as barbs go, is a brand-name drug called "Phrenilin," which is prescribed for migraines. It has butalbital, a barbiturate, in it (it lasts 4-6 hours). Now phrenilin is like fioricet/fiorinal because it is for migraines and has butalbital and APAP in it, but I wouldn't try fioricet or fiorinal because both have caffeine in them, the last thing you need to take if you're trying to get some sleep. Phrenilin is just butlabital and APAP (I think it's 50mg of the barb and 325 of APAP). And the kicker is phrenilin is not a controlled substance. Neither is fioricet, although fiorinal is (the only diff. b/tw fioricet and fiorinal is fiorinal has aspirin instead of APAP in it - the rest, butalbital and caffeine, is the same).

To summarize, I'd try and get some barbiturate drugs from your doc. First choice would be nembutal (pentobarbital), second would be butisol (butabarbital sodium) third would be seconal (secobarbital, because it does't last that long).

Chloral hydrate used to be available in capsules (look like pretty green jelly beans) or in syrup. Now it's only available in syrup. Tastes nasty as hell.

Zoop,
gotta ask ya........
since you like sonata so much....i must be missing something ...first off my dr. wrote me a script a few months ago for 30 of them to which the pharmacy would only dispense 21 (called them and they said for some reason the INSURANCE would only allow 21 of these to be prescribed at a time)...i have a refill plus pharmacy owes me the other 9 more..they want me to pay a double co pay...its ALL about money..always is i guess..
I didnt refil script or even go p/u the other 9 cuz the ones i have didnt do anything.......i have the low dose capsules I guess...but wondering if someone was wanting to have any sort of expereience with them how much orally would you think? (not into the post nasal drip ...makes me nauseaus all day) ..i have taken 2 of them at a time and still didnt go to sleep or feel any different. I was surprised when i saw someone likeing these so much.
anyways just wanted to ask.
thanks!

[nick]

Sorry I'm a bit off topic here,but I love cannabis.Hate hanging out with potheads though.

[Levity]

Great information...
So far I'm going to request, Xanax, Choral hydrate, and some Barbs.
Doc will love this conversation.
;-)

[Bastian]

The best drugs for insomnia would have to be the barbs and benzos, specifically seconals among the barbs and restorils among the benzos. halcion is OK and xanax is great also.

[Adormidera]

Xanax definitely may help, but it builds tolerance quickly and is highly addictive--make sure you think hard: do you really want another addiction? I would recommend asking your doctor about Rozerem (the one that ZK mentioned). Here's some info:

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/109/109150.htm

In the meantime you could also try melatonin, a supplement you can buy in the vitamin isle; it is what Rozerem is based on and may help some. I would take 3-6 mg (it comes in as small as 30 mcg doses, don't waste your time with those!) an hour or so before I needed to go to bed, then lie down in the dark after 30 minutes or so. It's pretty gentle compared to the high-powered knock-you-flat sleep drugs out there, but it would often help me, and I am like you in that my mind races all the time especially at night and nothing works well for me for insomnia, so I was frankly surprised when melatonin actually helped. It does not develop tolerance, which is a plus. It can also be good in combination with other meds, such as the antihistimine diphenhydramine (Benadryl, Nytol, etc.).

There are lots of new sleep meds coming down the pipeline right now, so hopefully all of us insomniacs will find help soon!

P.S. When asking for something you want from a doctor, I find one good way is to have had an Rx in the distant past--"Oh yeah, I remember years ago I used to use Xanax and that worked well" or to have a nurse relative--"My mom is a nurse and she told me I should see if you would recommend trying Xanax" or something like that. I work in a clinic so that helps, they don't think I'm suspiciously too well-informed. These days there's so much advertising too, that's a good excuse to bring something up. Good luck asking for barbiturates though--I doubt you're going to get far with that! And once you start mixing opiates and benzos and barbs, etc. you got yourself a recipe for an OD. Be careful and good luck.

[HeidiW]

antihistamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, chloral hydrate, alcohol, ether, ambien, zopiclone, etc.
Not to get off topic, how the hell does one do ether? Do ya huff it in a rag like Raoul Duke in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?

[HeidiW]

Sorry for the double post, but how I get the old-time sleeping pills, I tell the doctor I was prescribed whatever I'm tring to get 10 years ago and it seemed to help then. Works every time.

[dorje]

You huff ether. A small rag in the bottom of a glass, pour in ether, put mouth to glass, cup hand around glass to seal, inhale through mouth. Bad come down. People get angry. Alittle like alcohol which is a poor anesthetic.

[Zoop]

P.S. When asking for something you want from a doctor, I find one good way is to have had an Rx in the distant past--"Oh yeah, I remember years ago I used to use Xanax and that worked well" or to have a nurse relative--"My mom is a nurse and she told me I should see if you would recommend trying Xanax" or something like that. I work in a clinic so that helps, they don't think I'm suspiciously too well-informed. These days there's so much advertising too, that's a good excuse to bring something up. Good luck asking for barbiturates though--I doubt you're going to get far with that! And once you start mixing opiates and benzos and barbs, etc. you got yourself a recipe for an OD. Be careful and good luck.

This is really really good advice. It always works. Just say, looking off into the distance, like you're trying to remember something... "I got a prescription from a doctor I was seeing back about five years ago for ____ and I remember it really helped a lot! I had forgotten about that until just recently." Or something along those lines. It can't be too recently, because you run the risk of your current doctor asking who this other previous doctor was and (especially if the previous - fictitious - doctor was in the area) trying to contact this previous doctor to discuss how he treated your problem in the past. Not likely, but you run the risk of your current doctor saying something like that if you say "oh yeah, about six months ago I got ___ from another doctor I saw, right around here - really helped..."

If you're about 10 years out of college (if you went to college), then say you got something, whatever it is you want, from student health back in college and it really really helped. I got some methamphetamine tablets from student health back in college to help me cram for exams, yeah, that's the ticket! Naw, but you know what I mean.

OH - BABYDOLLANGEL - (I don't know how to double quote yet)

If you wanna try and get off by taking sonata's, then I'd say you need at least 30mg orally. At least. If you're a chick, then you're probably going to be at the lower end of the dosage range. 30mg ought to do you - just make sure it's on an empty stomach. It'll be a non-event if you take it right after a regular sized meal. A snack or something is o.k.. Try sniffing 'em though. There is NO burn whatsoever.

[chemboy7]

OH - BABYDOLLANGEL - (I don't know how to double quote yet)

If you wanna try and get off by taking sonata's, then I'd say you need at least 30mg orally. At least. If you're a chick, then you're probably going to be at the lower end of the dosage range. 30mg ought to do you - just make sure it's on an empty stomach. It'll be a non-event if you take it right after a regular sized meal. A snack or something is o.k.. Try sniffing 'em though. There is NO burn whatsoever.

Yeah, Sonata is fucking awsome. I have only had them once, scripted years ago, but I remember they were nice. Sea sick green caps right, mine were 10mg I believe. I had no Benzo or psuedo-Benzo tolerance at all at that point so 10-15mg intranasally did me nice, any more and I'd have black out spells. Really good with a couple beers (probably not much more though, if you want to remember it).

[Woods]

I’m going to vote oxazepam here too again. However, as has been stated over and over in different threads, differences in body chemistry make different benzos work differently in different people.

It also depends on exactly what your problem is as to what drug would be best to counteract it. There’s a difference between not being able to get to sleep, and not being able to stay asleep. If you just can’t get to sleep, but once you do you’re fine, I would recommend a shorter acting benzo. Among other benefits, you can take relatively large doses of the short acting benzos and still be ok in the morning. If you’re having trouble staying asleep, which it sounds like you are, and are sleeping poorly when you do, then you might be in the market for a medium to long acting benzo. These will keep you down all night long, but may interfere with rem sleep, have other unwanted and negative side effects, and may leave you feeling somewhat groggy, even at recommended dosages, at least in the beginning.

[Levity]

I'm having trouble getting to sleep, not staying asleep.
I just want a magic bullet that will stop my brain for a few hours and let me konk the hell out.

[Paregoric Kid]

yeah you put ether on a rag and breathe it in. I hear that during prohibition people actually drank the stuff. I've seen people soak rags with ether then stick the rags underneath the vent intake in a car and it would blow the ether up through the vent and into your face, don't try that at home unless you're fuckin nuts. the first time I did it was at some college dorm and they soaked it onto respirator masks, the kind doctors sometimes wear and then put the mask on.

[PantyShot9]

If the Temazapam didn't do the trick Halcion wont be of much use.

Actually Xanax and Halcion are two benzos that are chemically disimilar to the other benzos but chemically similar to each other and Halcion is even stronger than Xanax. In fact Halcion is the "strongest" benzo (strong being a relative term). And Placidyl isn't sold on the US market at all anymore it's been that way since 99. I have horrible insomnia too and both Xanax and Klonopin both work for me. I recently got my new doc to prescribe me Klonopin after years of suffering from intense GAD and insomnia with the occasional relief from buying benzos so I'm happy. I just wish he'd at least give me th 1 mgs but I can live with 90 0.5 mg pills a month.

[Levity]

So would you recomend me requesting Xanax or K-pins?

[PantyShot9]

So would you recomend me requesting Xanax or K-pins?

I think either is good although I have to admit Xanax is at the least a little better. The downside to Xanax is they have a 0.25 mg pill for that and getting that prescribing runs you the risk of getting that dose even though you'd most likely get it three times a day. 0.5 K-pins beat 0.25 Xanax anyday. Plus Klonopin works for a longer period and for some reason most doctors don't look at the two the same way they'd probably look at you weirder for asking for Xanax than Klonopin because they consider Xanax a)more abusable and b)a commonly abused drug at this time although all of us on this forum know all the benzos are abused and abusable. So if you want to run the risk of getting the low dose or having your doc look at you weird (which you probably wouldn't have to worry about with the drugs you've already been prescribed) ask for Xanax. But if you want to stay on the safe side like I did ask for Klonopin because I truly consider at least as good as Xanax sometimes I consider it better but everyone's different.

[PantyShot9]

What I meant to say at the beginning of my last post was that Xanax was at least a little better recreationally speaking. But in terms of theraputic value they're at least just as good and sometimes I find Klonopin superior. I have an ungodly benzo tolerance I can take 20 mgs of Xanax and stay awake and be semi-fuctional but one day I took 10 mgs of Klonopin and passed out in a Family Video bathroom and mind you that hasn't happened to me on 10 mgs of Xanax in years so sometimes K-pins can kick your ass more.

[Levity]

Thanks for the clarification...

I just talked to my doc at her son's birthday party (she's a mutual family friend) and she said she's willing to try any med I can come up with, so long as it isn't Schedule II or a barbituate. She refused to script barbs, and I can't say I blame her.

So, looks like in a few weeks (my next apt) I'll get some Xanax and K-pins.

[LayinLow]

Thanks for the clarification...

I just talked to my doc at her son's birthday party (she's a mutual family friend) and she said she's willing to try any med I can come up with, so long as it isn't Schedule II or a barbituate. She refused to script barbs, and I can't say I blame her.

So, looks like in a few weeks (my next apt) I'll get some Xanax and K-pins.

I have had bad insomnia for years, and have tried many drugs to help it. The one prescription that easily blew away any benzo even for sleep was Amitriptyline. It's a tryclic antidepressant, but when taken in small doses (25-50mg) it works GREAT for sleep. Better than any benzo to put me to sleep. It does not make you feel good like a benzo does, but if sleep is what you are after, ask the Dr. about Amitriptyline and see what they say.

[WarmCyanide]

yup. Elavil is my fav but i take it with booze to get perfect synergy for snooze land.
when I wake up in the morning the TV I have on through the night is so loud i dont realize that in the evening when im sinking in the sunset,, its actually that loud.

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

Wow Levity if Serequel doesn't work I don't know what to say.AAHHH maybe Soma(carisaprodal).Thats what I take and 10 milligram valiums.But usually if I really can't get to sleep the serequel will knock me out.I guess you really got a bad insomnia problem.
Also sometimes when I take too many opiates late in the afternoon it will keep me up all night.Just something to think about.

[Levity]

Amitriptyline - I tried it, doesn't work for shit.
Seoquel - Tried it, works, but a side effect is body-aches and exhaustion. I couldn't walk up a ramp the next morning.

[AceBeans]

You can also give Valerian Root a try, they sell it an GNC and places like that. It's not going to get you high but I also have insomnida at times and the root does the trick. You will also dream vividly.

[Levity]

You can also give Valerian Root a try, they sell it an GNC and places like that. It's not going to get you high but I also have insomnida at times and the root does the trick. You will also dream vividly.

Those natural cures don't work for me either...

Valerian root, Camolmeal, acupuncture.
Zip, zero, zilch.

[PantyShot9]

Those natural cures don't work for me either...

Valerian root, Camolmeal, acupuncture.
Zip, zero, zilch.


Same here man I'm happy they work for some but if anything sometimes those things keep me up more because I'm so pissed they were recommended so enthusiasticly and didn't work. And about the med thing if your doc said you could get anything other than CII drugs I'd get Halcion. It's supposed to be better than Xanax or Klonopin I've wanted to try it for years but have never been able to get my hands on any.

[Bastian]

Halcion is not better than xanax or klonopin, and I am speaking from experience here. Oxazepam absolutely sucks, it takes so long for it to kick in. I hate it. the best benzos are really xanax, k-pin, restoril, mogadon, and rohypnol, imo.