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View Full Version : Experience taking opiates while on Suboxone?



subinsoldot
12-05-2004, 04:44 PM
I've been on suboxone for about 4-5 months. I'm taking 2 to 2-1/2 8 mg. daily. I'm currently visiting my old stomping grounds and the temptations are tormenting me. Does anyone have any experience with what would happen if I were to take some methadone or do a hit of dope? I'm under the impression that nothing bad would happen, I just wouldn't feel it. Is that because buprenorphine is both an agonist and antagonist? Or because it's got Naloxone? Or both? How long would you have to be off the suboxone before you'd be able to effectively take an opiate (cop a buzz)? This is my first post and I hope I've done this correctly and put it in the proper place. Thanks, subinsoldot

bi11i
12-05-2004, 10:22 PM
I've been there. Right where you're at.

At one time in my life I was taking .2mg's of temgesic 3x daily. Not much at all. I went out and bought a couple of bags and what do you know? Nothing. Not a fucking thing. After every shot I thought I felt something, but it was all in my head. You just can't get high on suboxone. The buprenorphine binds too much. Even if you WERE able to get enough dope in you to knock it out, you'd get sick before you got high.

After 4-5 months of sub, it would take you at least 5 days of not using anything to be able to enjoy a good shot. The Naloxone in the bup does absolutely nothing except discourage people wanting to shoot the bup. It's not absorbed gastro or sublingually. It's just there as a deterrant.

it's not worth the risk and definitely not worth the money. head outside and be comfortable knowing you can't, even if you wanted to.

If you're visiting your old stomping grounds and not sure why - I know where you're at there, too. That's a tough one. Sub makes it so easy to go back, because you now know there's a quick way out. It also makes it difficult via the scenario above.

The only way I've ever been able to NOT go out and get high when I'm the stage where you're at is either substituting with another drug i CAN take, or make a drastic change in scenery (live, environment, job - move into a new apt, buy a new car - fill that hole somehow!)

Hope this answers your question....

subinsoldot
12-07-2004, 12:07 PM
Thanks for you answer. This is my scenario: I did make a drastic change in scenery. To be precise, 5,354 miles drastic (Alaska). Once or twice a year I come back to visit my kids and so I rationalize that I won't get strung out in a two week period. I've been extremely careful to avoid meeting any opiate users where I now live. When my Suboxone doctor suggests I go to NA meetings, I tell him I don't want to meet anyone who could introduce me to the local dealers. Although it's a damn good excuse to avoid going to meetings, which I always hated, it's true that a lot of the folks at meetings are there by court order. They haven't quit anything or if they have, it's temporary. As soon as those observed daily u.a.'s stop, they'll be right back where they were. And the closest Methadone clinic is a 2-1/2 hour drive through the mountains each way. Five hours daily rules out my ever getting back on methadone through the clinic route. And I've never been in an accident or have any x-rays or medical records that would justify a local doc prescribing adequate amounts of methadone for pain. They do seem pretty liberal with the oxy scripts up there. I was surprised to learn that, per capita, Alaska is the #1 state in the number of oxy prescriptions written. But oxy's just aren't my thing. I could chew 80mg oxy's by the handfull and not feel anything. I loved hydrocodone. It was the energy level that the hydros would give me that I got addicted to. Methadone can do the same when I'd exceed my normal dose by 20-40 mgs. That's really what I'm looking for now. It's been many, many years since I shot dope on a regular basis and as much as I'd love to get high that way (which is undoubtedly heaven on earth), the image of my kids (who know nothing about my drug use) having their Mom die of a heroin OD is enough to get me through that particular craving. I'm old enough\mature enough\maternal enough now that I won't let that happen for my own selfish indulgence.
So that brings me back to addressing your post. "head outside and be comfortable knowing you can't, even if you wanted to." Excellent advice and almost enough to make me feel comfortable enough to accept. The thing is, I skipped my Subox. dose yesterday and that last little devil sitting on my shoulder is saying "one down, 3-4 more to go - can I do it?" What to do, what to do....
I'll let you know how it turns out.

bi11i
12-07-2004, 03:35 PM
Five hours daily rules out my ever getting back on methadone through the clinic routearen't you allowed weekly take-homes there?
The thing is, I skipped my Subox. dose yesterday and that last little devil sitting on my shoulder is saying "one down, 3-4 more to go - can I do it?" What to do, what to do....
good luck - hopefully you won't be looking at getting sick for a long time before being able to feel better. don't they drug test you over there for suboxone? over here, if you're dirty, they cut you off. at least for benzo's, etc. because of that 30 patient limit, some docs cut you off for using anything, claiming there are others in line that care more.... bah.

i say if you're this far along, you're probably going to go out and get loaded. i'm not going to AA, you - AA is pretty much horseshit, from my standpoint, but that's another thread. the only thing you've got to balance now is your kids. you are there to visit your kids, right? eh? what's that?

just fucking with you. good luck...

Baseball65
12-19-2004, 05:11 PM
Hey Brother.

I too think AA/NA is a bunch of horseshit,and I more than anybody can make that call...I was a hardcore member for a long time.

First off...I did move..a "geographic" and guess what? IT'sFUckinG workinG!!!

My buddy laughed though...he's lived here (Nashville)for a year and a half and never been offered shit.I was standing in front of a Walgreens and some gacked out redneck came up to me to see if I wanted to score.My friend was livid....."You're here for 1 day and you get offered dope,and I've been here 18 months and haven't been offered a dime bag"

Sorry for not stopping by as often as I'd like...I have been actually doing really well on the sub...down to 6 mgs a day/sometimes 8...depends on the day and work/sleep patterns.

I am using that "Ashton Manual" protocol to finally get off of benzo's...I got as low as 1mg a day,but when I tried to go any lower I'd always get really sick.

so,I take 1/2 mg of xan in the AM and 10 mgs of valium PM.Than I slowly lower the PM dose,and than eventually(this will be the hard part) swap valium for the xan in the AM.....I work way up high in the sky on ladders,and the idea of being drowsy up there scares me!!

I can get Hydro anywhere on the planet....I actually turned down a scrip that was automatically sent to me....I've had it with the stuff.BUT leaving the pressure cooker of LA has made it easier for me to defuse my constant anger/anxiety need to take more and more opiates...it's so freakin' beautiful here...trees,fields horses mountains.....My "traffic" drive to work means being stuck in some gorgeous neighborhood with sprawling meadows and bitchin' architecture......not starin' at the smoggy,dirty back of some arabs benz that's just came to this country and already getting pissy that he has to dive the 405...F-you sahib!! go back to Syria or whatever.....

can you see where LA can make a person stressed out(By the way...half of my LA friends are freakin' paki's,persians and Iraqi's...that was just a figure of speech)

Anyways...I got your message...go ahead and e-mail me and we'll hook up and NOT go to an AA meeting...we'll go to a bar and slam some bourbons....I've noticed that sub has also reduced my cravings for alcohol...my Dr. does NOT demand abstinence(he thinks AA is BS too) but I just haven't been as interested in drinking as I used to be.

also...my sub Dr. wrote me two scrips for 90 for the last month,so I have enough sub to get through June before I have to buy any.

Hey Bi11i!! how does the .2mg temgesic compare to an 8mg suboxone? I might buy that stuff on line,as a 90 count jar of sub is $451 !!!

out

hope everyone is AOK

baseball

bi11i
12-19-2004, 07:22 PM
Hey Bi11i!! how does the .2mg temgesic compare to an 8mg suboxone? I might buy that stuff on line,as a 90 count jar of sub is $451 !!!you're looking at .2mg's of buprenorphine, without the naloxone. that's about 40 temgesic's to one 8mg subutex. good for weaning, not all that great on the wallet for regular use....
I am using that "Ashton Manual" protocol to finally get off of benzo's...what's the ashton manual protocol? how is that, anyway? being hooked on benzo's?
I might buy that stuff on line,as a 90 count jar of sub is $451 !!!buy some health insurance. no kidding. even IF they don't cover pre-existing, they most likely cover medication. i pay $25 a month for my subs, but $280 a month in health insurance. Then you'd be paying about the same, but you'll have insurance for whatever else might be ailiing you. I highly recommend. If you're paying cash for sub, pay it to the right place....

jacky
01-09-2005, 04:41 PM
I used to take just naltrexone, 50 milligrans a day. at one point I was desperate, my wife had run away to relapse, the mexicans were calling me saying I needed to attend to the debts she was incurring etc, I was lost. I went out and scored a couple of bags, copped a huge"horse needle" and proceeded to try and get high. after shooting BOTH bags I experienced a rather blunted high. some freinds called who wanted to score .their ,junkie radar seemlingly honing in on my activitys, I thought it smarter to use with others that day so we all went on a relapse. the high was definitely there, but I had to use 4-8 times to achieve limited effects. this started my two week binge of throwing it all away. later that a year another heroin user who was on naltrexone heard about my experience, he shot up more than a person should, and died in a corner while his freinds periodically "checked" up on him. This just sucked, and taught me a lesson about people and using, that one persons experience can become the catalyst for anothers fatal oversight. this person heard the amount of dope I had to do to achieve effect, possibly considered his greater weight a factor and bought and shot the same amount (as far as one could assume the dope would be anywhere the same potency). The kid who died, his dad , his family were jehovas witnesses, they had kicked him out of the church because of his junk addiction. He hadnt done junk even two years when he died. His father took him in and actuallly gave him money to score. I was suprised 6 months after he died that his father called me, trying to unload a variety of scales both triple beam and electronic that his son had left at the house. like all overdoses this stupid event could have been interrupted at various stages, starting with me shutting my mouth about the particulars of my stupid move of shooting dope while on naltrexone. shooting dope while on bup is a risky deal. while people have been given large amounts 1500 milligrams of heroin in laboratory/hospital settings and lived, taking unknown amounts of street skag while still using bup is of course potentially fatal, while the bup probably stays on the receptor sites even in the presence of heroin, who knows what parts of the brain may accept the "overflow"

beldar
01-13-2005, 11:53 AM
Like everyone else said. It won't work. I broke some ribs in Nov. and they gave me a ton of stadol. It didn't do anything for about three days. even then it was negligible. Four days waas better and five days was right on! That's the day I ran out though and started getting w/d from the stadol or sub. I was on 8mg at the time so I think it was the sub that I was having trouble with. I went right back to 8mg and felt fine in about 30 minutes. Trust me, it ain't worth messing with unless you go back to being a career junkie and who the hell want's to do that?!

1badrabbit
01-28-2005, 04:39 AM
I find that 4mg or less of Sub blocks some, but definitely not all opiate activity. And that usually lasts 12-24 hours for me. On dosages above 4mg a day it usually takes 24 hours or so before I can get high with a normal dose. It took extremely high doses to break the barrier on 4mg+ as well. The high was very minimal and nowhere near a normal one. Its just too safe and costly to break the barrier, unless your on like less then 4mg.

bi11i
01-28-2005, 09:33 AM
I had an experience similar to that about a year ago, but I was taking the .2mg temgesic's - which isn't much. No matter how much smack I would push up my arm, I got nothing. Just a little bit of the taste of blood in my mouth and the anticipation that comes with a good, healthy shot of tar but nothing - nada.

I'm glad I've not been one to test it the other way around, and slap a bit of bup on top of the h - although it might be fun to watch someone else do it....;)

panic82
02-18-2005, 04:58 PM
how long does it take 4bupe blockade 2 be gone where i can feel opiates!i was takin 4mg 3x a day

1badrabbit
02-19-2005, 12:07 AM
how long does it take 4bupe blockade 2 be gone where i can feel opiates!i was takin 4mg 3x a day

I would say between 12-36 hours to fully feel opiates again. Definitely at least 12 though, and usually by 24 its not too hard toget high. But to get complete effects it can take up to 36 hoursfor some people.

panic82
02-19-2005, 02:36 PM
at 11am this mornin it has been 48hrs since my last dose!i took a couple of lortab 10s and i got nothing!it just pissed me off!i was on methadone 4 4 yrs i ben off for a wile i only ben takin the bupe for almost 2weeks!

1badrabbit
02-19-2005, 03:46 PM
at 11am this mornin it has been 48hrs since my last dose!i took a couple of lortab 10s and i got nothing!it just pissed me off!i was on methadone 4 4 yrs i ben off for a wile i only ben takin the bupe for almost 2weeks!

Yah it sounds to me like its tolerance more then anything man. If you were on methadone and bupe your tolerance is probably too high to get anything from 20mg of hydrocodone. I know people who are just starting to take opiates and 20mg barely gets them high. So I would really doubt that you will get off from 20mg.

Sykotherapudik Lee
02-19-2005, 05:53 PM
No, wrong interpretation of what Suboxone does - you've still just too much buprenorphine in your system to feel the effects of hydrocodone, regardless of how small the amount. Remember, buprenorphine is potently bound even after 36 hours from your last dose.

I would imagine that to gauge the most opportune time of getting high, you'd want to wait until you start feeling the withdrawal effects from buprenorphine (how ever slight they may be) and then take your hydrocodone. After two weeks of no Methadone, i'm willing to bet 10mg's of Hydrocodone could be felt, if only a little bit.

jacky
02-20-2005, 12:29 AM
which receptors? ALL of them or just the kappa? when I have come off of buprenorphine in the past I waited 24 hours and experienced euphoria from just codeine and poppy seeds. I also was on an antagonist called naltrexone, I took 50 milligrams daily, one day I used 60$ worth of heroin tryuing to get high, normally on a relapse I would use 5-10$ and get some euphoria effects, this time It took more, but eventually I did feel the heroin....anyway, I am not sure if the naloxone mixed in the bup is there just so the product cannot be IV'd or if it has a real effect on perception and experience? I think Mr Lee is definiteley correct in the sense that the main reason a person cant feel other opiates when taking methadone and Bup is the fact that they are potent and long lasting drugs, maybe something stronger than those two would have soime effect, but what is stornger and avialable except for fentanyl?

Dwale T. Brewer
05-07-2005, 08:11 PM
:juggle: I just posted kind of a similar question in the Q and A section somewhere in the forums. If it's true they just wouldn't work then why bother trying? Because you are hoping for different results, huh? The danger in that (IMHO) is that you could overdose just trying to feel that high. The bummer about these maintence type drugs is they seem to take away your ability to ever enjoy a good opiate high again -- EVER in your life.
I have a suggestion though, why don't you ask whoever is prescribing you the suboxone to up your dose, because it is obviously not an effective dose if you are experiencing these kinds of cravings. Tell them that you are, and more then likely they will give you more suboxone, and if suboxone ever gave you any kind of a buzz when you started taking it, if you are lucky, you will achieve the same feeling when you get more.
I don't know anything about suboxone though, this is what I would do if the substance was methadone. So, I might be way off base, but I thought I'd share my thoughts anyway, just in CASE they are helpful!
BE SAFE!!
And good luck! :cool:

miosis
07-01-2005, 11:24 AM
yea I just came across 22.5 mgs of Hydrocodone and since I am on bupe I am considering just "offing" the HC, but it would be nice to have a little pure mu antagonist.

blahblahblah
07-02-2005, 09:42 PM
The time it takes for me to get high off opiates/heroin after a dosage of buprenorphine depends on 3 things. One, the metabolism of the person and how quick/slow ones body clears the bupe out. Two, the frequency and duration of dosing [i.e. 12 month maintence daily dosing compared to a one day use to keep sickness at bay]. Three, the amount of bupe used for dosing.

If I am on maintenance taking 16mg+ and have been taking that dose for months, I would give myself 48 hours to feel full effects from heroin. 24 hours would bring a diminished experince where I would get the rush but the high would deteriorate quickly. If I took 2mgs once or twice during the week because I didnt feel like using H, 24 hours will give me the ability to shoot past the blocking barrier if I shot enough dope, 36-48 hours and I am back to baseline.

It varies a bit between individuals, I have been on bupe therapy for on-and-off 3 years and the above statements hold true to me. Some people claim they have better luck getting high earlier than I do, but I question what 'high' means to them or maybee they have some superhuman metabolism and shit I thought mine was fast

b240c
07-04-2005, 01:01 PM
yea im wit blah^3

infact i just tried it the other day with little to no sucess. it had been 24 hours so i tried a shot thought i felt something and then nothing..so i proceeded to get drunk. after 3 fouties i decided to try again, but two hits and felt a little something for a quick second and then just a sloppy drunk feeling.

moral of the story is..
dont try it until youre feeling like your withdrawling, was 48 hours for me, til you shoot something if you want to enjoy it.

1badrabbit
07-04-2005, 01:40 PM
I agree with both of the above statements, and to add something that I have noticed in my own experience. It seems at least for me that when I try and shoot dope like say 12 hours after taking sub even though I don't get high the sub seems to clear out faster. Then my next shot at say 24 hours feels stronger then if I had just waited 24 hours and tried for the first time. Think this is just mental or because there is still some heroin in the body 12 hours later that makes the second dose feel stronger?

thespiral
07-05-2005, 07:23 PM
my body must be different from most, but this is my experience:

I've been prescribed 2 x 8 mg suboxone (16 mg / day) for the last year. For the last six months or so, though, I haven't been taking more than 8 mg /day . Just to keep this short, and because I'm in a hurry, for some reason the suboxone does not very effectively block the effects of full agonists for me anymore. While when I started on suboxone I could hardly get high even spending hundreds of dollars, now its different. A week ago, I took 4 mg of sub in the morning , and then about 6 to 8 hours later took one or two 80 mg oxys and boy oh boy was I feeling it... it was like I hadn't taken the sub at all.

One other thing I've noticed, however, is that the sub really doesn't seem to do much anymore to keep withdrawal symptoms at bay. What has happened here? It's like my brain doesn't even accept the buprenorphine anymore....

1badrabbit
07-06-2005, 10:50 AM
Funny you say that I had almost the exact same problem man. I could get high much sooner then I was supposed to be able to wihle on sub. My experience was much shorter though only 3 months. Within 1.5 months I was experiencing what your talking about. Pretty soon I would get chills/sweats, anxiety, and insomnia even if I took 24+mg of sub per day. Dr. told me I was just tripping, I ended up goin on methadone cause the sub just wasn't cutting it.

bdubya13
07-19-2005, 01:37 PM
There must be a way to get high on bup....cant some of you chemist out there find a way to alter the chemical structure of bup...and make it something enjoyable..16mg a day is getting boring and im getting sick of switching back and forth

bi11i
07-19-2005, 05:48 PM
very, VERY interesting. i've been on the sub with only a week's break for almost a year. does it stop working? am i feeling miserable because i'm getting 100% side effects and nothing more...?

opiobsessed
12-28-2005, 04:41 PM
I'm glad I've not been one to test it the other way around, and slap a bit of bup on top of the h -
although it might be fun to watch someone else do it....;)[/quote]

This is one thing I've been wondering since I've been on suboxone and wasting 120 to 240 vicodin 10/500's in a week, just trying to get my old buzz back after waiting only 24 hours into wd from my last sub dose to get high. I just lapsed last week and got just a slight buzz all weeklong from my vico, I was cwe'ing 10 pills at once and gulping down that mixture all at once, still just a light buzz. Being on these maintanence drugs sucks, but anything keeping the receptors humming all day is much better than nothing at least for me. Has anyone done this or brought it up on here? I mean the taking suboxone after taking H or a full agonist? What can happen?

HistoryofMadness
01-26-2006, 01:32 AM
When I was on Sub I tried a few times to get high, once even shot something like 16 mg dilaudid and felt nothing but sleepy... stupidly I learned a new trick: If I skipped a day between each dose for a few days, lowering the "clinical level" of sub in the system, I could then wait 24 hours after my last dose and 8 mg dilaudid would do the trick. . . but it would still take another day or two to really get high.

Finally I ended up using the sub only when out of cash, to not get sick, and fucked it all up... ended up with a combo habit of sub, dillies, and h... kindof defeats the purpose!

So I am with those who say if you are on Sub for maintenance take it every day and forget about using... the funk will always be there if you change your mind...