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View Full Version : Banged an ABG 60. Scared the shit outta me.



longduckdong
01-01-2011, 10:47 PM
So I had never banged an MSC before. I got 5 ABG 60's for free, so I decided to give it a shot. I found the4 prep to be much easier than I had thought it would be. I crushed up fine, added 120-130ius of COLD water. Let it sit. Filtered very well, and it drew up about 75 units after. ( I let the pin sit for 20mins or so, just to make sure it didnt gel in my pin)... So I take the plunge, and the rush hits, and its pretty nice. Then 10-20 seconds go by, and I get the "pins & needles" feeling. (Only in my head and my neck). Did not really like that....... But then another 10-20 secs go by &, I get HOT. And I mean really hot. I felt like my head, face & neck were on fire. I look in the mirror, and my face is blood red....... After about 2-5 mins the redness & burning went away.... But that burning scared the shit outta me.

Is that normal for morph?

SuperJunky
01-01-2011, 10:56 PM
That would be most peoples reaction to morphine, I have the same exact pills at the moment and prep them the same way, sometimes I get a strong histamine release, sometimes I don't, then again I eat benadryl like candy, which it's a good idea to take a small dose of an antihistamine before hand. One thing I find strange is when I did what I know was *pure* morphine extracted from some pods I got absolutely no histamine release from aprox 75mgs, which at the time I had no antihistamines in my system. I find that drawing up the solution asap is the best way to avoid the gel factor, the pills do have a detergent in them, it's not all that harmful but that can cause a nasty head rush some days. I use 3ml of water for every two pills though. Just my experience, but that "pins and needles" feeling and flushing is pretty common IME.

longduckdong
01-01-2011, 11:07 PM
That would be most peoples reaction to morphine, I have the same exact pills at the moment and prep them the same way, sometimes I get a strong histamine release, sometimes I don't, then again I eat benadryl like candy, which it's a good idea to take a small dose of an antihistamine before hand. One thing I find strange is when I did what I know was *pure* morphine extracted from some pods I got absolutely no histamine release from aprox 75mgs, which at the time I had no antihistamines in my system. I find that drawing up the solution asap is the best way to avoid the gel factor, the pills do have a detergent in them, it's not all that harmful but that can cause a nasty head rush some days. I use 3ml of water for every two pills though. Just my experience, but that "pins and needles" feeling and flushing is pretty common IME.

Thanks for the reply... Yeah I was anticpating the pins feeling. But I had never even heard of the burning feeling.... I thought my body temperature had raised to an extremely dangerous level at the time..... But that redness & burning is pretty normal huh?

jdub
01-01-2011, 11:08 PM
Yep thats the histamine reaction. I hate that feeling. Sometimes it gives me the worst headache ever also.

SuperJunky
01-01-2011, 11:30 PM
Yep thats the histamine reaction. I hate that feeling. Sometimes it gives me the worst headache ever also.

Definatley jdub, some days after I drop the plunger I get the worst fuckin head ache, it only last 5-15 minutes but it can be extreme, makes your eyes tear up and your head throb. It can be pretty nasty. I'm curiose if any one has had any experience w/ 100% pure morphine and got no histamine release, I've seen this in my self and one other person, but I know no one else that has had pure (beyond hospital grade if that makes any sense) morphine to get additional input from.

n33d2Bn0dd1n
01-01-2011, 11:31 PM
sounds like there might have been Niacin (vitamin b3 or Nicotinic acid,) or a related compound involved - it sounds like a stereotypical "flushing" reaction... The RDA is between 14-16mg's so throwing it into a potentially "abused" formula wouldn't be beyond imagination - flushing can begin at as low as double the RDA, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was thrown in particularly because it's a medically recognized nutrient that's water soluble. I could be totally wrong here, and I don't know the first thing about the fillers and binders in that tablet, but adding a strong amount of niacin would make for an effective "anti-abuse" ingredient.

This, (Niacin, not niacinamide or other "non-flushing" forms,) is also the only thing I know of that will allow you to pass a UA from a medical insurance company aimed at figuring out if you're a smoker of tobacco...

uncomfortable, yes, but when you want your blood supply scrubbed clean with a Brillo pad in a short amount of time, accept no substitutes.

if it is a straight histamine reaction, mixing a little diphenhydramine with the shot [ "benadryl (c)", up to 50 mg's or two caps- (I like the target brand, "up & up" as it seems pretty clean)] will not only potentiate the nod factor, but will reduce those nasty side effects. if you're comfortable with the filtration method you already have for pharms, this shouldn't be an issue.

hope this helps...

edit to add: I wish I could find something beyond hospital grade for damn near anything other than fent...

To Each His Gnome
01-02-2011, 11:20 AM
So I take the plunge, and the rush hits, and its pretty nice. Then 10-20 seconds go by, and I get the "pins & needles" feeling. (Only in my head and my neck). Did not really like that....... But then another 10-20 secs go by &, I get HOT. And I mean really hot. I felt like my head, face & neck were on fire. I look in the mirror, and my face is blood red....... After about 2-5 mins the redness & burning went away.... But that burning scared the shit outta me.

Is that normal for morph?

Oh yes, my friend. Welcome to the wonderful world of IV morphine;)

The first time I experienced this, I also thought that something was wrong. Pins and needles were almost too much and I was red as a lobster for about five minutes. But, yeah, that's the norm for a good morph rush. And the parts that you don't like about it at first will grow on ya over time.

Nowadays, when I get a good enough morph shot that the pinz & needles are damn near overwhelming, I LOVE IT. Especially the warm, cozy, itchy, euphoric blanket that wraps itself around me as the lobster-ness fades...:cloud9:

jill
01-02-2011, 11:33 AM
sounds like there might have been Niacin (vitamin b3 or Nicotinic acid,) or a related compound involved - it sounds like a stereotypical "flushing" reaction...

This, (Niacin, not niacinamide or other "non-flushing" forms,) is also the only thing I know of that will allow you to pass a UA from a medical insurance company aimed at figuring out if you're a smoker of tobacco...


if it is a straight histamine reaction, mixing a little diphenhydramine with the shot [ "benadryl (c)", up to 50 mg's or two caps- (I like the target brand, "up & up" as it seems pretty clean)] will not only potentiate the nod factor, but will reduce those nasty side effects. if you're comfortable with the filtration method you already have for pharms, this shouldn't be an issue.

hope this helps...


I just double checked all the ingredients in the Watson ABG Morphine 60mg tablets (which are actually manufactured by Purdue Pharma, LP) and there is no niacin in any formulation as an ingredient, inactive or otherwise.

Sounds like the typical histamine, flushing reaction. My only concern would be from a HR standpoint that isn't the beginning of an allergic response.

Have you taken a lot (enough) of morphine previously in any ROA to know if this was a factor then?

@ SJ: Yes, I have had a bad histamine response to injection grade morphine in the hospital setting. I have also seen it in patients in the hospital.

harmonik
01-02-2011, 12:55 PM
Yeah man.. you just experienced the part of morphine & some BTH that reels most of us in...

the very lovely, warm, mouth-watering, all-encompassing histamine release of good ole morphine.

like others said, if you really can't handle it or don't like it, add 25mg of diphenhydramine(benadryl) to your shot... i've seen it used as a cut in H before to mask the shitty (read: damp) quality.

Hartdude
01-02-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm curiose if any one has had any experience w/ 100% pure morphine and got no histamine release, I've seen this in my self and one other person, but I know no one else that has had pure (beyond hospital grade if that makes any sense) morphine to get additional input from.

How do you get beyond pharmacutical morphine??

SWIM used to "obtain" sterile syringes from the hospital 10mg/ml of MS04 (Morphine Sulphate), and syringes of Hydromorphone 4mg/ml, and used to IV them regularly. SWIM very often would get the typical histamine release, pins and needles along with the flushing and hot feeling. There were times, it seemed when SWIM was on a long run, when the histamine release would be little or nothing at all.

The Ryan
01-02-2011, 01:21 PM
normal

murphle
01-02-2011, 02:48 PM
Happened to me the 1st time I did MS04 too. But my ass did 100mg one, and was like oh shit, this is gonna end bad. Now 1000's of shots later, I get pissed when it doesn't happen. Welcome to the joy of IV narcotics!!! Have a nice stay!

SuperJunky
01-02-2011, 03:55 PM
How do you get beyond pharmacutical morphine??

SWIM used to "obtain" sterile syringes from the hospital 10mg/ml of MS04 (Morphine Sulphate), and syringes of Hydromorphone 4mg/ml, and used to IV them regularly. SWIM very often would get the typical histamine release, pins and needles along with the flushing and hot feeling. There were times, it seemed when SWIM was on a long run, when the histamine release would be little or nothing at all.

I once had access to pure morphine hcl in a very potent solution, that's why I was saying beyond hospital grade, no ingredients other than morphine HCL and water, gave no histamine release, the dose was something like 70mgs if memory serves and it was in < 1ml of water.

longduckdong
01-02-2011, 04:59 PM
like others said, if you really can't handle it or don't like it, add 25mg of diphenhydramine(benadryl) to your shot... i've seen it used as a cut in H before to mask the shitty (read: damp) quality.

So you just crush up a 25mg benadryl pil with your MS?

What about if you have the diphen gel caps?

I liked the shot.... Except I didnt like the lobster face burning.

harmonik
01-02-2011, 05:00 PM
I once had access to pure morphine hcl in a very potent solution, that's why I was saying beyond hospital grade, no ingredients other than morphine HCL and water, gave no histamine release, the dose was something like 70mgs if memory serves and it was in < 1ml of water.
...? You can't fit 70mg of morphine in less than 1mL of water.. IIRC the HCl salt is even less soluble in water than the sulfate.. although (iirc) the sulfate salt is heavier..

also, hospital grade morphine is going to be equivalent to if a chemist buddy synth'd/extracted some morphine and put it into a solution...

only extraneous ingredients i know in hospital morphine... preservatives (sometimes) and NaCl.. that's about it.


So you just crush up a 25mg benadryl pil with your MS?

What about if you have the diphen gel caps?

I liked the shot.... Except I didnt like the lobster face burning.
I had these diphenhydramine capsules.. never crushed any benadryl. They contained talc I'm pretty sure so I'd use a 3mL rig packed with cotton to pre-filter.. I have no idea about the gel caps, but I'd never shoot any gel-caps period.. People have lost arms/veins before by shooting temazepam gel caps... ich, I can't even imagine it...

Thanat0s
01-02-2011, 05:03 PM
So you just crush up a 25mg benadryl pil with your MS?

What about if you have the diphen gel caps?

I liked the shot.... Except I didnt like the lobster face burning.
dude use the KAPSEALS, or generic CAPSULES.

the walmart generic IIRC didnt have any insolubles in it,
many,many DID...

ausativa
01-02-2011, 05:04 PM
morphine is only soulable up to 60mg/ml

longduckdong
01-02-2011, 05:18 PM
dude use the KAPSEALS, or generic CAPSULES.

the walmart generic IIRC didnt have any insolubles in it,
many,many DID...

Thanks Thanat.

Pardon my idiocy for a moment on this benadryl thing, but, you just mix the ingredients from the keapseals with your MS pil?

Thanat0s
01-02-2011, 05:22 PM
yeap.

mix some of it first by itself in water to see how well it mixes,
the benadry MIGHT need heat.

mix 25mg with 1/2cc of water, draw up then use that with another 1/2cc of water to mix with the morphine, prep as usual.

be advised the benadryl has a rush all by itself,
might be overwhelming with the morphine.

not only does it quell the histamine thing but it is also a fantastic potentiator IV.

Dr.G
01-02-2011, 05:32 PM
the reason that happens with niacin is because of histamine release, so it was infact that, histamine release.

jill
01-02-2011, 05:42 PM
be advised the benadryl has a rush all by itself,
might be overwhelming with the morphine.


If you didn't like didn't like the lobster face and that feeling of the MS, you may not like the rush of IV diphenhydramine along with it.
It is pretty strong itself and gave me palpitations & chest pain the first several times I had it (IV grade in a medical setting). I believe I also got diaphoretic too.

You do build tolerance to it too though, it doesn't bother me any longer and I get it twice a month. It just burns like hell if it's in a smaller vein or the further away from my heart it is.

Thanat0s
01-02-2011, 06:06 PM
i used to shoot plain diphenhydramine all by itself,
upwards of 200mg at a time...

needle fixation circa 1997...

jill
01-02-2011, 06:13 PM
i used to shoot plain diphenhydramine all by itself,
upwards of 200mg at a time...

Than0, I was just agreeing that you made a very valid point...the diphenhydramine can be a huge rush, especially the first few times and if OP didn't like the rush/lobster face feeling, he may not like it even more combined with the MS.

I've been getting it 7+ years now and it no longer gives me a reaction in itself.

:)

Thanat0s
01-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Than0, I was just agreeing that you made a very valid point...the diphenhydramine can be a huge rush, especially the first few times and if OP didn't like the rush/lobster face feeling, he may not like it even more combined with the MS.

I've been getting it 7+ years now and it no longer gives me a reaction in itself.

:)
oh no misunderstanding,
just posted to note that it IS a fairly intense rush all by itself,
so do exercise caution when mixing with any opiate IV...

i did the shit daily for about a year,
fucking got me offa my first heroin habit even.

have had trouble finding the proper capsules for iv in the past few years however.

makes a TOP NOTCH dope cut as well...

retrogradeamnesia
01-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Thread made my day thnx to the OP...I can jus imagine the reaction of
someone unaware of the histamine response :D

longduckdong
01-02-2011, 09:47 PM
Thread made my day thnx to the OP...I can jus imagine the reaction of
someone unaware of the histamine response :D

Hahahaha.... No shit..... I was like: "Oh shit". Puttin away my gear super fast.... My wife was in the bedroom, (Me in the bath), And Im thinkin: "Shit, babe, uuuummmmm I think somethings wrong"..... By the time she got to me, the red was gone.... She told me I overreacted.

Funny thing, I always heard of the histamine response, I just thought it was gonna give me an injection-site bump.... I didnt know I was gonna be REDMAN! LOL

jill
01-03-2011, 12:02 AM
... I didnt know I was gonna be REDMAN! LOL


Haha, actually "Redman Syndrome" is a real drug reaction to the drug Vancomycin! :(

Just make sure you don't use that terminology with medical personnel...you might get them a little worried!

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------


...the diphenhydramine can be a huge rush, especially the first few times and if OP didn't like the rush/lobster face feeling, he may not like it even more combined with the MS.

I've been getting it 7+ years now and it no longer gives me a reaction in itself.

:)

LOL, I just realized how this sounded....I've been getting diphenhydramine for over 7 years, every 2 weeks (prior to a medical treatment) and after a few months of it, it quit bothering me symptom wise, other than some burning at the site if in a small vein. (Not morphine and diphenhydramine!)

Love In Vein
01-03-2011, 12:07 AM
I usually don't have a very strong histamine reaction normally, but I have found just like tolerance increases/decreases with familiar locations you inject at (dwelling, etc. not injection site) my histamine response varies as well. I shot up a rinse of M at a friend's house one time and thought my head was going to blow off my body. Seriously had to take my hat off cause I felt the pressure in my head so badly and all my friend did was stare wide eyed and say "Holy fuck you are so red right now". Never experienced it at home with up to 100mg IV, but a silly rinse on a strong push almost KO'd me. Anyone else have similar experience?

SuperJunky
01-03-2011, 09:25 AM
I usually don't have a very strong histamine reaction normally, but I have found just like tolerance increases/decreases with familiar locations you inject at (dwelling, etc. not injection site) my histamine response varies as well. I shot up a rinse of M at a friend's house one time and thought my head was going to blow off my body. Seriously had to take my hat off cause I felt the pressure in my head so badly and all my friend did was stare wide eyed and say "Holy fuck you are so red right now". Never experienced it at home with up to 100mg IV, but a silly rinse on a strong push almost KO'd me. Anyone else have similar experience?

I've never experienced this for myself but have heard it documented both in a research paper and on heroinhelper, as well as seen it happen to others. I honestly think your comfort level can play a role in tolerance, there have been studies done in mice that showed that if taken out of their normal cage and given the same dose almost 75% of them died from the reaction.

EDIT: Sorry I never give references, I no longer have access to many of the medical or chem journals I ounce had...

n33d2Bn0dd1n
01-03-2011, 12:45 PM
I just double checked all the ingredients in the Watson ABG Morphine 60mg tablets (which are actually manufactured by Purdue Pharma, LP) and there is no niacin in any formulation as an ingredient, inactive or otherwise.

Sounds like the typical histamine, flushing reaction. My only concern would be from a HR standpoint that isn't the beginning of an allergic response.

Have you taken a lot (enough) of morphine previously in any ROA to know if this was a factor then?


I've had experience with MS via IV dozens of times over the years, (I usually use Heroin,) but but not Watson ABG 60's, and I've never experienced this type of reaction. mosquitos bite me and don't leave those itchy welts for years though, and my cat allergies disappeared years ago too, so maybe my body doesn't respond to histamine the same ways other's do now...
I have experienced Niacin flushing, and that's exactly what it was like. I do know that when I get the itchies from dope, a little benadryl seems to do the trick.


the reason that happens with niacin is because of histamine release, so it was infact that, histamine release.huh... how 'bout that. I had no idea - learn something new every day. Thanks.


i did the shit daily for about a year,
fucking got me offa my first heroin habit even.

have had trouble finding the proper capsules for iv in the past few years however.

makes a TOP NOTCH dope cut as well...

If you ever get the desire to check out Target's brand, "up and up", I'd be interested to hear what you had to say. It dissolves leaving nothing after the draw, but does leave the solution slightly cloudy though.

SuperJunky
01-27-2011, 12:31 PM
If you ever get the desire to check out Target's brand, "up and up", I'd be interested to hear what you had to say. It dissolves leaving nothing after the draw, but does leave the solution slightly cloudy though.

I take diphenhydramine on a regular basis to the point where my eyes water for no reason other than I haven't taken any, so I don't know how much this helps others.

I needed more benadryl and prefer the caps to the pressed pills so since I had to pick up rx's at a pharmacy w/ a $4 program I decided to try target's Pharmacy and remember this thread mentioning Up and UP brand diphenhydramine. I use a large quantity of water for my shots, so this may not help you guys using 1cc rigs but I could easily dissolve 2 25mg caps in 3ml of water along w/ my shot of morph.

Thanat0s
01-27-2011, 12:36 PM
dude,
with the capsules i could fit 8 of the 25mg in 3cc...

im sure could 3 into 1cc, no?

for dope shot/diphen i use 25-50mg generally,
but its been years.

ausativa
01-27-2011, 06:07 PM
ok so, if someone posts on opiophile.org on threads.. do they show up in here.. just not vise versa or what?

SuperJunky
01-27-2011, 06:16 PM
There's no auto cross over, I posted it on both sites.

Diphenhydramines Cheap, I'll go break a capsule and let you know how many 25mg caps I can get into 1cc of room temp water.