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View Full Version : HELP!! bag got totally wet, how fucked is it?



KhaosKronik
11-22-2010, 11:20 PM
So, here's the low down; it's snowing like a mother fucker here, and SWIM's guy was like 2 hrs late bringing him the order. Finally gets the bag home, and it was a big bag, no little 20 sack. Opens it up and realizes that it's half chunks and half funky looking heroin syrup!! I don't know what the fuck happened, did water get added to the shit somehow, or what the fuck, I have no idea. SWIM is pretty sure that whatever happened it happened on the dealers end, not SWIM. He got out of the car, walked home then looked closely at the bag.

Anyone have any idea what the fuck went on with this stuff?

And more importantly, what can SWIM do to make this stuff a little more manageable, maybe get some of the water out?

havok
11-22-2010, 11:31 PM
put it in a spoon and IV it

Citrus
11-22-2010, 11:32 PM
...mix it with water and inject it? I'm missing the problem here; I'm assuming.

normus420
11-22-2010, 11:36 PM
wait I dont get it wernt u gonna put water in it anyway? just put less now or are you a smoker if so smoke the driest pieces you can pick out and leave the wet stuff out to dry. I dont see it being hurt to bad its only BTH rite.

KhaosKronik
11-23-2010, 12:48 AM
How can I put this delicately; SWIM probably won't be the end user for all of what he got, ya know? This is an amount such that it'll have to be stored for a few days and needs to be broken into smaller pieces. SWIM has a friend or two that he shares with, so some of this'll be going to them.

If it were just SWIM, he could IV it like it was no big deal, but the question I have is about storage and the possible distribution to another end user beyond SWIM; ie how to best store and separate the stuff.

SWIM isn't a dealer, he just shares with a couple of his homies. They give some to him and he gives some to them when one is in need and the other is flush.

Citrus
11-23-2010, 01:03 AM
How much was it all together? You can't put it all on a plate and let it all dry on the plate?

KhaosKronik
11-23-2010, 01:10 AM
How much was it all together? You can't put it all on a plate and let it all dry on the plate?

It was supposed to be a full piece; 24g's. There were 19 g's of solid chunks SWIM managed to pull out, then a ton of syrup left over. SWIM doesn't know if letting the liquid or even the mostly solid pieces sit out over night or whatever would even help it at all. It's been my experience at least that black tar is hydrophilic and tends to collect water rather then lose it when set out in the open air. Is there a reliable way to desiccate BTH? Getting all this water into the bag, however it happened, has really made this stuff a nightmare to deal with; a sticky mess all over the place just from unfolding the bag, trying to break off a g to do is a real pain in the ass.

anonymous49
11-23-2010, 02:33 AM
Same question but with stamp bags..anyone ever get one wet orrr even a bit moist? the best way i found of salvaging was to just sock the whole bag in water. anyone else have any ideas?

SHELLEY
11-23-2010, 05:54 AM
since imaginary friend isn't a dealer but it's just a couple buddies
why not scrape parts of wet chunk into smaller bags, explain to them that it got wet in the snow,
and then tell them to just put it in a spoon and shoot it?

i remember one time i had a bag hidden in my drawers, got rained on like crazy
got home, pulled out the bag and panicked that it had taken water
then i thought "wait a minute..."

Thanat0s
11-23-2010, 08:52 AM
prob got so wet in the dealers MOUTH bro.


IF its even dope thats all syrupy...

The Ryan
11-23-2010, 09:22 AM
Same question but with stamp bags..anyone ever get one wet orrr even a bit moist? the best way i found of salvaging was to just sock the whole bag in water. anyone else have any ideas?

i just open the bag and scrape all i can off with a razor blade or knife into a spoon.

Import
11-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Yeah, that shit is completely unamageable in that form as it sticks to everything. Also, it's been my experience that tar is hydrophilic, so letting it sit out might not help too much.

How bad is it? Is it like one of those goopy bags you get when it's hot out, or is it even worse?

I would freeze it immediatley so it doesn't have the chance to stick to anything else.

It might be some cutting disaster on the dealers part...too much coca cola?!?!?!

Woody Bear
11-23-2010, 12:42 PM
Get a large bowl and place in on top of a pan of simmering water, make sure that there's a gap between the water and the bowl, because steam is hotter than water, and it works best if steam is touching the bowl, not the water.
Put the heroin in the bowl.
Once it heats up, start mixing the heroin around with a spoon, until it's dry.
Once dry, remove the bowl from the pan.
Dry the underside of the bowl, and quickly package it up.

If you leave the dry powder sitting in the pan, then it will suck the water out of the air again, and there will be quite a lot of water in the air from the steam bath. So you need to remove it from the bowl as soon as it's dry.

highdayz
11-23-2010, 01:22 PM
if you get those real sticky bags, the ones where the tar gets caught up with the plastic dip the baggie into your cooker/spoon. The tar will slip right off and into the water. There will be some of the mixture in the baggie left so just rub your cotton on it.

KhaosKronik
11-23-2010, 08:47 PM
I know that whatever happened, it was accidental, not the dealers fault. It's actually pretty good stuff if u get past the wet sticky-ness of it all. I tried freezing it, but it just re-melted again at room temp; can't keep it in the freezer all the time. Not a cut that I've noticed, or anything like it at least. It looks like the connections normal cut, just wet.

After SWIM talked with his connection, the guy said that it likely got the water added to it because some standing water got into the hiding spot he had in his car. Water got in the hide-a-hole and from there soaked into the baggie. Hopefully SWIM's connect will replace what he lost, at least that what the dude said.
I hope it works out for him!!!

To the one guy who talked about putting it in the spoon with the water, and trying to get the stuff off the baggie that way. That doesn't really work, specially not when your water is already saturated with dope. Putting the baggie in the water just makes a mess of the whole deal, overall a bad idea.

I read the method posted by Woody Bear; sounds great. I never knew there was a way to desiccate black tar; I'll have to try it out and see how it works. It sounds like, if it does work as described, that a lot of the so called gun powder is just made with this method from normal strength dope. I hope it works, I'll be sure and report back

smackNcheez
11-23-2010, 09:17 PM
There's also ways to lay it out on a place and microwave in short bursts to get it to dry as well. It's the same procedure as when one wants to make a powdered snortable version of tar.

harmonik
11-23-2010, 09:43 PM
if you do any of that heating and stuff, i'd be sure to mix it in with the rest 'cause that portion will likely be mostly morphine/6-mam by then.. right?

jimmyfingers
11-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Ask your dealer what his return policy is? Do you still have your receipt?

highdayz
11-23-2010, 10:52 PM
To the one guy who talked about putting it in the spoon with the water, and trying to get the stuff off the baggie that way. That doesn't really work, specially not when your water is already saturated with dope. Putting the baggie in the water just makes a mess of the whole deal, overall a bad idea.
oh sorry this isn't ideal for you. I guess it's just the difference in dope. whether it's sticky, or you just can seem to scrape it off for whatever reason "smushing" the bag in the spoon with water always worked at least for me. Good luck, hope your dealer can fix your situation. I know mine wouldn't lol.

smackNcheez
11-23-2010, 11:13 PM
Ask your dealer what his return policy is? Do you still have your receipt?

I doubt he bought it from Whitney

havok
11-24-2010, 01:57 AM
All you have to do is put it on a plate and let it sit out. The water WILL evaporate given enough time. I have definitely done this before. I'm not sure why people think this won't work. Water does evaporate you know. Of coarse you could speed up the evaporation process with heat, but that could potentially degrade the heroin.

From Wikipedia:
Generally, evaporation can be seen by the gradual disappearance of a liquid from a substance when exposed to a significant volume of gas.

I.E. water disappears when exposed to air, its not rocket science folks


It's been my experience at least that black tar is hydrophilic and tends to collect water rather then lose it when set out in the open air. Is there a reliable way to desiccate BTH?

This line made me laugh out loud. Do you even know what hydrophilic means? For someone who doesn't know how evaporation works, you sure like to use fancy words.


if you do any of that heating and stuff, i'd be sure to mix it in with the rest 'cause that portion will likely be mostly morphine/6-mam by then.. right?
Most of it will still be heroin, but a small amount will degrade into morphine/6-mam.

harmonik
11-24-2010, 02:26 AM
Even with the heat element? I thought boiling water would increase the rate of heroin -> morphines... I could be wrong, though.

havok
11-24-2010, 02:58 AM
Even with the heat element? I thought boiling water would increase the rate of heroin -> morphines... I could be wrong, though.


from http://nzic.org.nz/ChemProcesses/biotech/12C.pdf
"heroin itself decomposes (hydrolses) in the presence of heat and/or moisture."

Yes heat will definitely increase the deacetylation of heroin (conversion of heroin into 6-MAM), but there will still be a lot of heroin left. Only some of it will decompose depending on how much heat you use.

KhaosKronik
11-24-2010, 03:15 AM
All you have to do is put it on a plate and let it sit out. The water WILL evaporate given enough time. I have definitely done this before. I'm not sure why people think this won't work. Water does evaporate you know. Of coarse you could speed up the evaporation process with heat, but that could potentially degrade the heroin.

From Wikipedia:
Generally, evaporation can be seen by the gradual disappearance of a liquid from a substance when exposed to a significant volume of gas.

I.E. water disappears when exposed to air, its not rocket science folks



This line made me laugh out loud. Do you even know what hydrophilic means? For someone who doesn't know how evaporation works, you sure like to use fancy words.

Wow, for somebody who doesn't have any idea what kind of black I get you seem pretty sure of yourself. With the shit I get, if it gets left out overnight, it COLLECTS water, and will melt into a little sticky puddle given time. It takes in water, same with the so called gunpowder.
I don't know what kind of stuff you get, but if you had any idea what I'm talking about, you wouldn't make so obvious a mistake.

A hydrophilic molecule or portion of a molecule is one that has a tendency to interact with or be dissolved by water and other polar substances.

Walk with me for a second on this; hydro mean water, philla or phillic, means love. loves water. A tendency to interact with/ be dissolved by water. Sounds a lot like what i meant.

Arguing over the precise definition of a word and using your knowledge of the dictionary to insult people isn't helpful, and isn't why I posted this is the first place. I come to this board for help, and advice, not a sarcastic lesson in terminology. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, why would you jump in?

Don't waste my time.

ausativa
11-24-2010, 03:19 AM
Damn bro.. harsh. Throw it in the freezer.

havok
11-24-2010, 03:33 AM
Right I made the mistake by quoting wikipedia. Evaporation is a pretty basic principle, I thought everyone understood it.




A hydrophilic molecule or portion of a molecule is one that has a tendency to interact with or be dissolved by water and other polar substances.
So now you want to look up the definition of hydrophilic.


Walk with me for a second on this; hydro mean water, philla or phillic, means love. loves water. A tendency to interact with/ be dissolved by water. Sounds a lot like what i meant. Unfortunately this sounds nothing like what you said. No where in your post did you say anything about heroin being soluble in water. I think your exact words were "collects water out of the air" (that is not the definition of hydrophilic)


I come to this board for help, and advice, not a sarcastic lesson in terminology. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, why would you jump in?All I did was try to help, and you turn around and attack me. I gave you a very easy method to get rid of the water. If you leave any type of heroin out in the air, the water will evaporate and it will dry out, it just might take awhile. The water will completely evaporate eventually (try it if you don't believe me, it might take a couple days). Even a sponge, which definitely does collect water, will dry out if left in the open air for a period of time.

I have had the type of heroin you are describing that sort of melts at first when you expose it to air. However after a couple days it will dry out and turn solid.

I think I added greatly to the discussion. There is no need to get upset.

KhaosKronik
11-24-2010, 03:49 AM
All I did was try to help. I gave you a very easy method to get rid of the water. If you leave any type of heroin out in the air, the water will evaporate and it will dry out. Even a sponge, which definitely does collect water, will dry out if left in the open air for a period of time. I think I added greatly to the discussion. There is no need to get upset.

This is not how the H I get/have reacts, my stuff gains weight and appears to collect water, becoming more viscus and sticky. Any type of H will not lose water left out, maybe the kind you get will, but not mine, and not where I live. It just doesn't, and if you saw it you'd know this is how it works. Period. End of story, no two ways about it.

Here's a little tip, if you are trying to help and actually want people to listen to what you have to say, try not to treat everyone else like they are so much stupider than you, and it never helps to insult people. But you were just trying to help, right? Not even a little bit of trying to make yourself seem smarter and more important, boost your self esteem a little?

I just want to get this straight, leaving black tar heroin out in a humid environment means it will gain water weight; it will take in water, absorb water, accrue water, however you wanna say it. Don't leave it out unless you are prepared for this to happen.

havok
11-24-2010, 03:53 AM
I have had the exact type of heroin you are describing. While it appears to melt and turn viscous when exposed to air at first, the water will still evaporate eventually and it will dry out if left in the open (dry) air for a long enough period of time (3-5 days).

There is no way around evaporation. Anytime moisture is left exposed to the open air, it will evaporate. "Period. End of story, no two ways about it."

By the way, it does not "gain weight" (wouldn't the dealers love that). You can verify this yourself by actually weighing the product before and after exposure to air, so therefore it is not actually collecting/absorbing/accruing water from the atmosphere.

I really am just trying to help. You can interpret it however you like, but I think it says something about how you view other people. I find it quite funny that you are accusing me of trying to act superior/smarter than other people. Wasn't it you that used the words "hydrophilic" and "desiccate" in your original post? I mean really, desiccate?

harmonik
11-24-2010, 04:42 AM
I have had the exact type of heroin you are describing. While it appears to melt and turn viscous when exposed to air at first, the water will still evaporate eventually and it will dry out if left in the open (dry) air for a long enough period of time (3-5 days).

There is no way around evaporation. Anytime moisture is left exposed to the open air, it will evaporate. "Period. End of story, no two ways about it."

By the way, it does not "gain weight" (wouldn't the dealers love that). You can verify this yourself by actually weighing the product before and after exposure to air, so therefore it is not actually collecting/absorbing/accruing water from the atmosphere.

I really am just trying to help. You can interpret it however you like, but I think it says something about how you view other people. I find it quite funny that you are accusing me of trying to act superior/smarter than other people. Wasn't it you that used the words "hydrophilic" and "desiccate" in your original post? I mean really, desiccate?
who knows what cuts are in tar... i'd bet many of them act different ways towards moisture

edit: and let's not forget the humidity of different regions

jdub
11-24-2010, 12:04 PM
Same thing happened to me once. I put it on a foil covered plate and put it in my oven on "warm" which I believe is about 150f. Dried out in 20 min tops with no degradation.

Woody Bear
11-24-2010, 03:15 PM
The heroin will break down to 3-MAM, and 6-MAM, and those will break down into morphine. Heat and moisture will speed this up. But if you have damp heroin, then you'd have more heroin break down if you left it damp and stored it for awhile, rather then drying it fully. Also damp heroin will have more bacteria in it, then totally dry heroin, because the bacteria need water to breed.

If you only get a days worth of heroin at a time, then it's not worth drying it out. But if you get a bit and let it last you for a week or more, then it's definitely worth drying it, more from the prevention of bacterial growth angle, then from preventing heroin's decomposition.

Things will dry out on a steam bath quicker and at a lower temperature then they would if you stick them in the oven. This is because the movement and mixing rapidly evaporates the water, and as the water evaporates, it cools down whatever it's evaporating from.

If you evaporate water by sticking it in the oven, what happens is that the surface tension on top of the water traps the water underneath, and makes it need more energy to over come the surface tension. That's why mixing water or wet/damp powder around greatly speeds evaporation, because there's not the surface tension like there would be if you just leave it in one spot untouched.

Also morphine hydrochloride is hygroscopic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopic), which means that it sucks water out of the air, and gains weight. There's no reason to believe that heroin wouldn't behave exactly the same.

If something is extremely hygroscopic, it will suck so much water out of the air that it forms a puddle and dissolves into it, then it is said to be deliquescent. Wikipedia says that instant coffee behaves like this. So I'm guessing that havok's heroin that dries if left out, isn't cut with coffee, but KhaosKronik's heroin which gets wetter when left out, is cut with coffee. This is because although morphine hydrochloride is hygroscopic, it is not deliquescent.

Woody Bear
11-24-2010, 04:46 PM
This is because although morphine hydrochloride is hygroscopic, it is not deliquescent.
Scratch that one out. I thought it wasn't because I had some morphine hydrochloride extracted from poppies that gained weight when it was wet, but it just changed it from a dry white powder to a grey damp powder by being exposed to open air.

But I found out recently that that stuff wasn't as pure as I thought it was, so I reextracted some, and today I've been converting 30 mg morphine (well mixed poppy alkaloids really) into their hydrochloride salts.

They are just refusing to dry out fully. I can get them mostly dry in the oven, and then when I scraped it up, it was a glassy slightly damp white crystaline splodge. After sitting in a slightly warm oven for 5 minutes, when I took it out it was wetter than before it went in, and it had started to dissolve back into a puddle.

So if what I have is actually morphine hydrochloride, then it does seem to be deliquescent. At least it looks that way with all the humidity in my house from doing the dishes and making tea. Also because of heroin's two acetyl groups, it would be more non-polar, so less hydrophilic, so there is actually a good reason for heroin hydrochloride to not absorb as much water as morphine hydrochloride.

KhaosKronik
11-25-2010, 03:50 AM
Alright harmonik, lets get this bullshit squared away. Sorry I was so salty, but SWIM was trying to deal with a bag that was full of fucking water, and it was a god-dam nightmare to deal with. That said, I don't appreciate being talked down to, and I think you would admit that what you said was easy to construe that way. If I attacked you, it was, in my mind, turn about being fair play and all that. Fair enough?

Bro, I guess you are actually trying to help in your own way, but I know how my dope reacts, no matter how long the stuff sits, if it's humid like it is pretty much all the time where I live, the shit will actually gain weight. I swear to god, I've weighed it and it does gain physical weight. Sure, if it's drier in the air then the dope itself, it would eventually dry out. I dropped a weighed gram once on the hard wood floor in my room, came back a coupla weeks later and it was a puddle that after I scraped it up weighed 1.2 or so. Personal experience, and you can say I'm wrong, but that's just the way it is; we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm done with the counter attacks, but harmonik bro, will all due respect, if I were you I would think about how you phrase things so you come off as you want to sound, helpful and chill. I think we might just be able to agree on something like that, agreed?

From Woody Bear:If something is extremely hygroscopic, it will suck so much water out of the air that it forms a puddle and dissolves into it, then it is said to be deliquescent. Wikipedia says that instant coffee behaves like this. So I'm guessing that havok's heroin that dries if left out, isn't cut with coffee, but KhaosKronik's heroin which gets wetter when left out, is cut with coffee. This is because although morphine hydrochloride is hygroscopic, it is not deliquescent.

I think that this terminology more accuratly describes whats happening to my tar on the marco level. Good looking out bro, that sure hits what I was trying to say, loaded off my ass, in my earlier posts.