PDA

View Full Version : Bupe and drug testing; can u make a clean sameple show positive for bupe?



KhaosKronik
11-12-2010, 11:26 PM
So, here's my question; when I'm getting drug tested by my sub doc, it'd be great if I could just use a clean sample and substitute it when I'm in the bathroom, the problem is that my doc tests for bupe too to make sure ur taking ur dose. I've heard rumors that you can take a bit of a tab or SL strip and add it to a clean sample and that it will come up positive for bupe. It doesn't sound like it would work, I think the immunoassay test tests for metabolites, not the actual substance itself, since that's what shows up in the urine. Maybe the bupe itself is similar enough to the metabolite that it would trigger the same mechanism in the UA.

Any thoughts folks, I gotta go to my appointment on monday, so I'd love to hear what you all have to say.

RifRaf
11-12-2010, 11:39 PM
No, I really doubt that would work because of the reason which you stated. Metabolites of the substances, not the substance itself, is what is being looked at (I don't know of a drug test, especially urine, which works any other way).

If this test is on Monday your best bet is to just take a little bit on Sunday, even 0.25mg's or lower will give you a positive reading. If you somehow "lost" all of your Suboxone you may be in trouble. This happened to me once. I lost my last 5 tablets so I tracked down some Methadone and took it and when my Doctor asked why there was Methadone in my piss and no Suboxone I explained that my Subs most have been stolen at a party I hosted and I didn't want to relapse back on Heroin, nor could I afford to be sick for 5 days, so I thought my best course of action was to get Methadone. He told me I did the right thing and on I went.

KhaosKronik
11-13-2010, 12:12 AM
I think I'll be fine, I have pleanty of SL strips left, it's just that I'm not looking forward to having to take subs, switching from H to subs is pretty painful for the first few days, and I was hoping to put it off till I can just stay at home and don't have anything else to do. It's been just over 12 hours since I last did a shot, so i'm thinking about 10 or so more then I'll have to take my first sub dose.

JonnyM
11-13-2010, 12:35 AM
you should be fine to dose in 10 hours, also a good idea is to piss into a something and stick it in the freezer until your next appointment, you can thaw it out and use it the next time you are tested so you don't have to take a break from having fun if you don't wish.

Cassady
11-13-2010, 02:17 AM
I know someone who does this every time she gets tested and she claims it works. never done it myself but she said she takes clean piss and just adds a very very tiny amount of sub to it and it works for her apparently

Chemical_Boy
11-13-2010, 04:11 AM
I gotta say...I am curious.

Didn't you just say in another thread that you were starting bupe tomorrow?

Is this your first time getting on subs? Or is this just a sub maint visit at a doc you have been seeing?

If you are looking to get on subs... Why are you doing it? I am really just curious. If it is for long term maint, then I am curious as to why go with maint if you are already planning/ hoping to fuck with drug tests from the getgo? It seems easier, cheaper, and better for your body just to coninue using without adding subs if that is the case.

I mean to say that bupe is a horrible drug to jump back and forth from it to another full aggie... It really starts to takes its toll after a few cycles- the bupe takes longer and longer to make you well, and you spend a lot of time neither high nor well playing that game.

Maybe you have been on it for a while and are just looking for a way to successfully take sub vacations? For that, I would second JonnyMo's recommendation to make sure you are clean+ subs and fill a couple of bottles to freeze in the meantime. Then you are good to go and don't have to even worry. Just keep that shit frozen. warm pee in a bottle gets fuuuuuuunky quick.

But the other thing I will ad, is that if the whole point of the subs is to play without pay (withdrawal safety net), then methadone is much better suited to what you are doing. Though either is going to jack your tolerance sky high.

So, yeah man, what gives? What are your motives if ya don't mind me askin?

Billy the kid
11-13-2010, 05:17 AM
People always say that this won't work but it always does! I've done this once or twice when I was on suboxone and I know other people at my methadone clinic that just add a drop or two of methadone. I think that even though the test does test for glucoronide metabolites (usually) the chemicals are so similar that it gives it a "false positive" so to speak.

at&t
11-13-2010, 08:43 AM
Yeah.... I have no idea about trying this with subs, but Don't count on it for the methadone.

They specifically look for the METABOLITES.

Then again, those tests are so flaky, you're probably right about just getting "false positives" for the metabolites/etc...
but.................

<shrugs>

jimmyfingers
11-13-2010, 10:38 AM
If your spending time writing these types of posts, you are wasting your time and money on bupe.

limitless_euphoria
11-13-2010, 10:55 AM
Dude, you must have excellent insurance because I thought buprenorphine testing was expensive as hell. How often does he test? This is the first time EVER I've even read about this. I know it won't show on a 5-panel or even the 10-panel, its metabolites have to specifically be tested through I thought gas chromatography. But, I could be wrong on that... yeah, I'd just say take a really small dose at least 12 hours before and you ought to be good but I don't know that you can take my advice to the bank 100% for sure. That's what I would do anyway.

Import
11-13-2010, 10:59 AM
I don't know about bupe, but with methadone they only recently started testing for metabolites at clinics. They used to test solely for the drug. They changed because people were taking clean samples, dropping a lil mdone in em, and handing that in for testing.

Now, they test for mdone as well as a metabolite.

So, it really wouldn't surprise me if one actualy could get away with adding a lil bupe to a clean sample. Just don't turn it orange...

jimmyfingers
11-13-2010, 01:26 PM
http://www.meditests.com/buprenorphine-test.html

I have seen all types of bupe and bupe combo (x,coket, ect) tests on the internet for years now and are very inexpensive. I assume most docs are using these

at&t
11-13-2010, 04:55 PM
Very interesting, Import.... I don't know what the deal was in the past-- Somehow hadn't EVER tried mdone before just a couple of years ago.

I guess that nowadays some clinics probably do and some don't (test only for the "metabolites.")

Good info man.
at&t

PS. And best of luck to the op. Sounds like some potentially high-stakes trial and error, but do post back and let us know how it works out! sounds like it could be useful info for a lot of people here.. :)

RifRaf
11-13-2010, 08:45 PM
you should be fine to dose in 10 hours, also a good idea is to piss into a something and stick it in the freezer until your next appointment, you can thaw it out and use it the next time you are tested so you don't have to take a break from having fun if you don't wish.

Does this really work? Doesn't it need to be at a certain temperature as well (somewhere near the body temp)? I have always thought about it and possibly adding a tiny amount of Creatine while in the bathroom but I haven't really had the need to go through with it yet.

KhaosKronik
11-14-2010, 04:34 AM
Alright, well, first of all, thanks for everyone who gotten back to me.

To chemical boy, I've actually taken subs on and off for about a year, and it's only recently that I've relapsed and am now trying to get back on bupe. Actually I tried it this morning, and despite 3 of the 8 mg SL strips I was still almost sicker then I've ever been before. I mean really sick, dripping from my eyes, nose and mouth, slick with a sheen of sweat, and running between the bathroom and sitting in front of my space heater with a blanket around my shoulders. I actually made it almost 4 hours before I broke down and had did a blast. The shot didn't get me particularly high, but it did get me well. So ever since 1bout 1 or 2 I've been riding the well-ness of the 2 shots i did. I don't know if i have the willpower to go through what I did this morning.

I can buy clean pee in a bottle at local smoke shops for $25, that's why I was asking about how to alter a clean urine sample, so i can get my subs but do the switch gradually, when I don't have work or school.

To jimmyfingers; I usually like to stay on my subs, but take a vacation from that every 3 or 4 weeks, so I don't think I'm wasting my time or money. I get a lot of benefit from suboxone, but I fucked up this time and went on few week binge, so lighten up man!


to RifRaf: yes, you can save piss in the fridge, and it'll keep no problem, I've even read a process for freeze drying it. It's only when "producing" the sample for the actual test that it needs to be near room temp. Creatine is the substance that you body takes in, in what u eat and drink and is then metabolized in the muscles i think, into creatinine which is tested for when the GCMS test is run, not on the immunoassay test. You would only need to add it if u were substituting water or some other substance for your urine, that or diluting it by drinking a ton of water.

Woody Bear
11-14-2010, 08:32 AM
KhaosKronik, after going on a weeklong binge your opioid receptors adjusted to being more stimulated, so then when you took the suboxone, the buprenorphine kicked the residual dope out of your receptors, and didn't stimulate them as much as they had gotten used to. That's why you got sick, because you got a mild case of precipitated withdrawals.

In future if you do a binge, then when you transfer back to suboxone, wait until you are sick, then then only take 1 mg per hour until you get well. Taking an extremely large dose of suboxone at the start won't make you well quicker, as it's the taking buprenorphine too early that's making you feel sick.

OxyQueen
11-14-2010, 09:15 AM
KhaosKronik, after going on a weeklong binge your opioid receptors adjusted to being more stimulated, so then when you took the suboxone, the buprenorphine kicked the residual dope out of your receptors, and didn't stimulate them as much as they had gotten used to. That's why you got sick, because you got a mild case of precipitated withdrawals.

In future if you do a binge, then when you transfer back to suboxone, wait until you are sick, then then only take 1 mg per hour until you get well. Taking an extremely large dose of suboxone at the start won't make you well quicker, as it's the taking buprenorphine too early that's making you feel sick.


This is what happened to me this past binge...ugh it fuckin sucked yesterday morning!
Even still this a.m.~not quite "right"

Now-a-days it takes 3-4 dayz before i adjust back to Subs& feels somewhat "normal"...It sucks; but as we all know--There ain't no free lunch!

OQ

limitless_euphoria
11-14-2010, 09:21 AM
http://www.meditests.com/buprenorphine-test.html
I have seen all types of bupe and bupe combo (x,coket, ect) tests on the internet for years now and are very inexpensive. I assume most docs are using these

Shit JF I had no freakin' idea. My sub doc made it sound as though it was expensive to test for bupe. Then again, he said this a couple of years back. He made it sound like, "Well, the majority of pre-employment tests and standard panel tests won't pick it up, but, wait and see, I'm sure insurance companies with their denials based on pre-existing conditions are going to start testing and maybe employers too."

It's funny because almost all the older stuff out there (the literature etc.) says "Only a patient who is not opiate tolerant would experience any type of narcotic effect from this medication" (paraphrasing) but we've proven that wrong by taking dosages in the microgram range.


The Buprenorphine drug test will detect use of Suboxone®, Subutex® or Buprenex® (buprenorphine hydrochloride). This drug currently being marketed in the United States for the treatment of opiate addiction. Similar to opiates such as Methadone, Subutex® and Suboxone® are designed as a replacement for injected and snorted opiates such as heroin. Buprenorphine, a derivative of thebaine, provides pain relief and also produces a narcotic high. In fact, Buprenorphine was originally used for pain relief purposes over many years ago.

I guess our little kitty is out of the bag because, go back a few years, and all the doctors selling people on bupe convinced the families and spouses or loved ones of addicts "there's no way they can get high off this and by using this there's no way they'll get high off any other opiate," but my question is whether they believed it or not (docs). That's probably what they were told in their eight-hour course to be certified to prescribe and I'm sure that's what RB (the company that makes brand-name) wanted everyone to believe.

Maybe physicians and others (like us) are starting to find out that there is more abuse potential than people first thought when Suboxone hit the market in '03. Or, maybe this site is just selling its product. I'm not sure what to believe. Still, for the most part, most people I know that have taken Suboxone didn't think there really was a way to get high off it unless you didn't use it for an extended period of time.

KhaosKronik
11-14-2010, 03:58 PM
KhaosKronik, after going on a weeklong binge your opioid receptors adjusted to being more stimulated, so then when you took the suboxone, the buprenorphine kicked the residual dope out of your receptors, and didn't stimulate them as much as they had gotten used to. That's why you got sick, because you got a mild case of precipitated withdrawals.

In future if you do a binge, then when you transfer back to suboxone, wait until you are sick, then then only take 1 mg per hour until you get well. Taking an extremely large dose of suboxone at the start won't make you well quicker, as it's the taking buprenorphine too early that's making you feel sick.


Aha, now, this seems to hit the nail on the head! Here's the thing tho, I waited more then 24 hours to take my first dose. I assure you, I was 100% sick when i took my first 8mg, after which I waited a few hours, took another 4, and then 2 more hours for the last 4mg.

Lemme get this straight, if I had waited longer, then taken 1-2mg per hour, after I'm really really sick, that I will gradually get better, and I won't have to deal with the 3-4 adjustment days to get my body used to subs?

In my experience, no matter how you take you subs on that first day, whether you do it slow after you are really sick, or whatever, there's no way you're gunna feel anything close to well on day 1. And that has nothing to do with precipitated WD's, I supposed its what u said, the receptors aren't being as stimulated and have to get used to being on a high binding affinity opioid such as bube, as opposed to a low binding affinity opiate such as H or oxy or whatever.

Anyhow, I'm more then willing to try it your way, I'll report back later today and we'll see how it goes.

FlapJack
11-14-2010, 06:02 PM
Back to the whole adding of actual drugs to achieve flase positives:

I never bought that shit and would pretty much call bullshit the few times I heard about it. But when I was visiting my boy in florida I was buying a bunch a roxis off this kid. I was paying for his appointment and the script pretty much for his bottle so I went with him to his doctors. He was a doctor shopper, was prescribed 80's a blues from two different docs, a shitload of meth from another, and fent patches and dilaudid from a few other doctors. All of his doctors drug tested him and on the way to the clinic he put on his whizzinator belt so he could pass the test, but he had to be positive for what was prescribed by that specific doc and negative for everything else so he would make sure he saved atleast one of each pill whether he took them or sold them and would add a few crumbs to his sample when he filled up the belt. Since he'd been seeing all these doctors for atleast a few months and some for years I would definetely say that for him atleast this worked completely successfully. I know he was prescribed oxycodone, methadone, fentanyl, dilaudid and probably more and it worked for all of these. I think that maybe they only test for the metabolites of meth at the clinics if that's the case because he was getting pills from a pm doc.

Anyways yeah I always called bullshit but I don't see how else his doctors would have continued to treat him so I can only assume that it worked for him. When other people had talked about it I always just kind of though they were trying to sound cool but I don't this kid buying a whizzinator and shit and putting it on in his car just to trick me into thinking that shit works lol

KhaosKronik
11-14-2010, 06:29 PM
I think the only fool proof solution is to do everything as prescribed, no cheating on other drugs, until u can drop a clean sample. Then either freeze or freeze-dry a bunch of ur piss, and the sample having the proper drugs in it can be stored till you need it. That way, there's no chance of it not working or whatever. Sure, it's a pain in the ass, but if u have the will power to do it, it's the best way for sure.

Vico-Dan
11-23-2010, 12:11 AM
Dude, you must have excellent insurance because I thought buprenorphine testing was expensive as hell. How often does he test? This is the first time EVER I've even read about this. I know it won't show on a 5-panel or even the 10-panel, its metabolites have to specifically be tested through I thought gas chromatography. But, I could be wrong on that... yeah, I'd just say take a really small dose at least 12 hours before and you ought to be good but I don't know that you can take my advice to the bank 100% for sure. That's what I would do anyway.

My Sub Doc uses a 5 panel test that will show positive/negative for Bupe.

I was there today and he showed me himself.

It looks similar to this:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/meditests_2126_1271402

OCD
11-23-2010, 08:55 AM
I once made a friend of mine that was clean take a tiny bit of bupe and got his pee 12 hours later. That worked. He was fucked up as hell for almost a whole day, but it worked... :p