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skabbo
11-10-2010, 01:24 PM
This happened about a month ago, but I just started coming back to the site after a year-ish hiatus (too many memories of nodding while reading the boards here - was hard to read it and not start thinking about a friend of mine..) :rolleyes:


Sat down with my counselor to look over my last 3 months of drug tests, to see if I could get another take-home. She goes down the list, "Methadone, methadone, methadone.. Cocaine..".
Now, I haven't touched cocaine since high school. In fact, I hate it - always have. I did it a few times cause it was around (and a cokehead boss used to give me free lines when I worked at this recording studio - in those days I wouldnt turn down free drugs, even if it was something I wasn't fond of).. But since then, NOTHING. I also don't have a kidney/liver infection, as I've read those are some of the only things that can trigger a false positive for cocaine (also, some people say quinine, which I tend to doubt, or everyone drinking gin and tonics would be testing positive.. Either way, I didn't have any quinine either)..

Cocaine is NOT a common false positive - tons of cold medications can cause false positives for amphetamines.. Poppy seeds for opiates obviously (which happened to me when applying for a job in my pre-opiate days), but barely anything causes cocaine to trip other than, well, cocaine.
I told my counselor all of this, but when they're used to dealing with drug addicts, they kinda assume they're being lied to from the get.. When it comes down to it, if they trusted us, they wouldn't be drug testing us.
I was adamant though. I had every reason to be. I told her to take blood, take hair, do anything. I even demanded that from then on, whenever I gave a urine sample, I wanted a second bottle that they sealed, dated, and initialed, and that I took home and stored, so that if it happened again, I could have the same urine independently re-tested. They didn't go for this idea.. Shame, I think it was a good one.
Eventually, the doctor believed me after the counselor told her that I had no history with cocaine, and seemed pretty genuine.. I can be pretty convincing in general, and ESPECIALLY when I've got the truth on my side. Got my take home, but I'll never trust the drug testing system again..

So I figured I'd share, see if anyone has any theories on the cause, and see if anyone's had similar experiences.

Narkotikon
11-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Aside from certain OTC cold medicines causing false-positives for meth, I'm wondering if it could be a psych med? Do you take any psych meds? Wellbutrin is a weak dopamine-agonist, similar to how cocaine works. Have you ever taken Wellbutrin? I've gotten a false positive for coke from Wellbutrin before.

All in all, I think it depends on the test they use. Some clinics just use those OTC-like drug tests, others actually send them off to a lab for further scrutiny.

The policy at my old clinic was that they'd send someone of the same sex in there with you to watch you do your UA, then they'd seal it, date it, initial it. The only thing they really seemed to care about was benzos, in which case if you tested positive for benzos, they'd cut your dose in half until you no longer tested for benzos, BUT you'd have to work your way back up to where you were in 5-10mg increments.

In other words, if you were on 100mg a day and tested positive for benzos, they'd cut it to 50mg automatically and then keep testing you until you tested negative. This clinic had an absolute 100% no benzo tolerance policy, even if they were scripted.

In the case of false-positives, you could demand a more accurate retest, again sent to the lab, but tested more thoroughly. But, that cost an additional 25 dollars.

I would demand a retest, even though they eventually believed you, simply because if I was in a methadone clinic again I wouldn't want to be distrusted. There are too many political things that go on behind the scenes at some clinics that shouldn't be going on IMO.

OCD
11-10-2010, 01:59 PM
Could it possibly be a mix up and that your urine didn't actually test positive? I've heard of false positives for amphetimines and opiates, but not for cocaine. Very strange indeed.

nick
11-10-2010, 02:04 PM
No theories,but this is FAR from unusual.Drug tests frequently through up all sorts of weirdness and no one should have their treatment altered based solely on a drug test.

Rosetta Stoned
11-10-2010, 02:30 PM
I've read somewhere that Amoxicillin (for whatever reasons...) can cause a false positive for cocaine. I dont know if I believe it, but I have read it somewhere at least twice.

OpiateQueen
11-10-2010, 02:36 PM
No drug test is 100% accurate, that's all there is to it. They should've told you at the time and you could've pushed to have it retested immediately.
The tests themselves are not even close to 100% (depending on what type/method they use), plus there are many chances for contamination if you are sloppy, or even slightly sloppy... or the handler/tester is... eg. handling the door of room/toilet that someone positive for coke has just touched with their pissed on hand, and then inadvertently touching anywhere from your piss hole to the inside of the cup/lid etc.

mbahole
11-10-2010, 03:26 PM
I've had 2 false positives for cocaine at the clinic. Once in July of this year and once in October of last year. Both times I was completely drug free apart from methadone, and I've never been able to figure out why it happened. I tried to argue with the clinic about it but they basically said false positives never happen, I must be lying.

nick
11-10-2010, 03:43 PM
No drug test is 100% accurate, that's all there is to it. They should've told you at the time and you could've pushed to have it retested immediately.
The tests themselves are not even close to 100% (depending on what type/method they use), plus there are many chances for contamination if you are sloppy, or even slightly sloppy... or the handler/tester is... eg. handling the door of room/toilet that someone positive for coke has just touched with their pissed on hand, and then inadvertently touching anywhere from your piss hole to the inside of the cup/lid etc.

I gotta ask,"is pissing on your hands an Australian thing because we try not to?"

and OQ, before you fly off in to a fit of high dudgeon.........I'm only joking.

Thanat0s
11-10-2010, 03:47 PM
yall non US weirdos sure have it made...

im AMERIKKKA,
we PAY folk to touch our 'PISS-HOLES...'
:rolleyes:

skabbo
11-10-2010, 03:54 PM
I've had 2 false positives for cocaine at the clinic. Once in July of this year and once in October of last year. Both times I was completely drug free apart from methadone, and I've never been able to figure out why it happened. I tried to argue with the clinic about it but they basically said false positives never happen, I must be lying.

Wow man, two positives must be some kind of liver or kidney condition.. One I could write off as a mix up at the lab, but if something's making it come up repeatedly, and it's not another medication (like Wellbutrin, like Nark mentioned), then it might be worth having a blood panel done or something.

I've been tested a dozen or so times since, and none have come up for anything other than methadone and benzos [see below]. Due for my 4-times-a-week take-home bump next week :D

And Re: Nark
The only psych med I take is Xanax, which they know about, so it shows on every test. They're ok with it, as long as it's scripted, and I've had it since long before I started there (or started opioids, actually). Other than that, I smoke pot, which they either don't test for or don't care about, and no other drugs, OTC or otherwise. I guess the door-handle theory is possible, if you touched someone else's pee. If it was the drug itself, I'm not sure the test would see it, since they're testing for the metabolite of cocaine (Benzoylecgonine).. I'd like to think I don't walk around with that much of someone else's piss on my hands, and therefore my dick, but I guess the clinic can be kinda skeevy :o

Slime Machine
11-10-2010, 08:43 PM
maybe some rock was melted on the weed uve been getting :O just kidding,but no seriously its been done to me before. if not melted down ive found little rocks in the bag. tho that was way back when, when i bought shwagg weed from ghetto dudes. ive never suspected that my kind bud had been laced.

yea sometimes those drug tests are faulty. nothing is a 100%, but the fact that it was a 2 time mistake makes me wonder. i dunno man, u mightve been slipped some coke in yer weed or maybe it is something else showing a false positive. sounds like a shitty thing to happen to someone, i know id be pissed.

i dont mean to thread jack here, but i tried asking this in another thread and never got a reply. i even sent out a few emails to people i knew who were going to the done clinics.... im going to be switching from bupe to methadone pretty soon and i am very curious about how they view weed use. i understand that benzos are definately not tolerated because of life threatening interactions, but how is weed viewed for most clinics? is it serious taboo or do they mostly not give a fuck? i definately wanna earn those take homes but i love smoking pot.

JonnyM
11-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Amoxicillin - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 13, 16, 18, 20, 21, 26, 29 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Ampicillin - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 29 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Diabetes - false positives for Amphetamines, Cocaine, Ecstasy, Meth and Opiates (Ref: 3, 15, 16, 20, 21 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Kidney disease - false positive for Cocaine (Ref: 3, 16, 20 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Tonic water - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 16, 18 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))

Some possibles?

Slime Machine
11-10-2010, 10:47 PM
some good info there^^^

norseman
11-10-2010, 11:37 PM
A while back I had a false positive for a benzo that I never used. I figured out what caused it and brought proof to my next appt. The Dr was cool bout it anyways, as I had been clean for a long time prior.

Don't forget to talk to your pharmacist as well. They can really help in a situation like this.

I think it is a little ridiculous for them to fuck with your treatment/dose based on one bad urine.

doctor diesel
11-11-2010, 06:32 AM
At my bupe clinic some time ago my case worker piss-tested me and put my golden man-water in some new instant-test container, shaking it about a bit then reading some indicator on the side of it.
She said it had come up positive for morf. I said "bullshit".
Faced with a "where do we go from here then?" silence, I asked her to send it off to the lab for a proper test.
Saw her again three weeks later and she happily announced that the lab test had come back negative.
Bullshit, bullshit instant-test bullshit.



Doc

More Feen
11-11-2010, 07:25 AM
piss hole

are these available in the US yet? NE1 know how much?

M F

skabbo
11-11-2010, 10:14 AM
Amoxicillin - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 13, 16, 18, 20, 21, 26, 29 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Ampicillin - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 29 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Diabetes - false positives for Amphetamines, Cocaine, Ecstasy, Meth and Opiates (Ref: 3, 15, 16, 20, 21 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Kidney disease - false positive for Cocaine (Ref: 3, 16, 20 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))
Tonic water - false positive for cocaine (Ref: 16, 18 (http://www.askdocweb.com/references.html))

Some possibles?

Awesome info, but sadly none explain it (unless I have undiagnosed diabetes, but I seriously doubt it). The Tonic water and kidney disease I mentioned, but forgot about the antibiotics that could trip a positive for cocaine.. At least I know what to stay away from.. Actually, the night before my next random test, I'd had a couple sips of my girlfriend's vodka tonic, and that wasn't enough to cause a false positive (fortunately - I doubt they'd have believed me twice).


doctor diesel - good call, always demand a lab test.

Slime Machine - I was totally freaked out before I started at the 'done clinic in Jersey, and it turns out they didn't even test for weed. Then I moved to Brooklyn 5 months ago, and the new clinic doesn't care about weed either. Two clinics in two states is promising, but it in no way guarantees that your clinic won't care. These clinics both use lab testing, so they may not even check for marijuana due to the extra cost and low risk involved.. But if your clinic uses a classic 10-panel test or something similar, they may choose not to ignore the marijuana-positive right in front of their noses. Only one way to find out - at very least, it shouldn't stop you from trying - I'd imagine most drug counselors would rather see you substituting methadone for H, even if you're still coming up for pot.

As far as the benzos, that varies much more from clinic to clinic. My first clinic actually made me bring in every new prescription I filled, and they counted them in the back room, wrote down the quantity, that way anytime during the month they could ask me to bring in the bottle and count them to make sure I wasn't taking more than prescribed. As long as I complied with this I could get take-homes as usual. After I moved, the new clinic was slightly less restrictive. They make me bring in proof of prescription every month, but even the receipt from the pharmacy will work (as long as it says 'Xanax' on it). I've heard that tons of clinics have zero-tolerance policies when it comes to benzos though, so YMMV.

jimmyfingers
11-11-2010, 02:25 PM
I actually find the standard urine tests to be fairly accurate. For a relatively inexpensive test, they tend to get it right most of the time. I find trying to predict these tests to be extremely inaccurate.

They get it right enough of the time to where they make excellent 'initial' tests. I think a positive should be sent to a lab and verified with no questions asked.

Slime Machine
11-11-2010, 04:04 PM
beautiful, thanks for sharing that info skabbo. its been bugging me for a while. i plan on doing the switch from bupe to done pretty soon and i know ill need pot not only for the detox in between meds but later in treatment as well. weed is what makes all this bs of being an addict and running around to meetings and doctors semi-tolerable, at least for me anyway.

limitless_euphoria
11-12-2010, 05:57 AM
I know a guy (a genuine SWIM) who never, ever did coke in his life not even once. He was in a car accident and was being scripted like #90 perk 10's every couple weeks. He also got some benzos, This was through his primary-care doc.

Then, after a few months of the primary-care doc treating his pain, the doc just comes in one day acting all weird and he says "We've had a lot of people who have been on pain meds that have breached our trust lately. We're now testing people randomly to make sure that they're actually taking their meds and not selling them and to make sure they're not using them with other things they should not be."

The next time he went back for his meds the doctor calls him in and says "We've gotta talk [name omitted], is there anything you want to tell me about? Have you been using something?"

To this the guy responded that he did not.

The doctor came back with "Well, you tested positive for opiates and benzos which I expected but you also tested positive for cocaine."

Before my acquaintance could get a word in edge wise, the doc tells him he's cutting him loose and he doesn't even want to hear that the test is wrong or his "bull shit."

He said something like "Yeah I had another guy tell me that too... I hate bull shitters and junkies. I'm going to catch all you liars blah blah blah...."

The worst part: he was just straight up cut off. Being opiate and benzo dependent, you would at least figure, to avoid a lawsuit the guy would have given him something to taper with as the combination of the two simultaneous withdrawals could be lethal considering benzo withdrawal itself can cause seizures and we know what opiate withdrawal is like! But he gave him nothing but a one-way boot out the door.

The guy found a new doc who actually happened to know a lot about the old one. I know this part is a bit o/t but the guy with the false positive in question had medicaid for insurance and the new doc told him that he'd heard rumors that the old doc was trying to run all his medicaid patients that he didn't make much money off of out of his practice. He was a greedy fucker.

So then the question becomes, was this all a part of the original doctor's agenda to get this dude outta there because he only wanted the insurance that paid top dollar or was it a genuine false positive?

The new doctor, as far as I know, ended up sending the guy to PM after a while. Then like two or three years later his wife died of cancer. His wife was a former family friend and she was the reason I even knew the guy. I have no idea whatever happened to him but I'd be curious to know.

So, false positives have happened for coke, more than one actually that I've heard of but the second report could be b.s. as the person who told it is known for b.s. so I won't belabor my post. But, I have to question whether people have an agenda at times after stories like the one above.

P.S. And yes, as was stated earlier, I have heard of various psych drugs causing various false positives as well.

Billy the kid
11-12-2010, 09:17 AM
I have quite a bit of experience with the standard tests. I agree with Jimmyfingers that the tests are surprisingly very accurate. My clinic tests once a week and Ive been on the program for 7 years. Ive never had a false positive and I've also never tested negative when I've used. I've taken approximately 364 tests and out of all of those they have always been dead on.

jimmyfingers
11-12-2010, 01:01 PM
The problem with people posting on opi and IRL is that they always claim that they haven't seen cocaine in 8 years or something similar. Most of these cases, they are probably guilty but trying to figure a way to climb out of the hole.

I do not believe doctors either. With the climate on pain meds, a doctor becomes spooked and next thing you know he claims you test positive for benzos. I think they see it as an excellent excuse to trim some of the fat.

If a doctor tells you this, and you know you have not used, you have pretty much 0 recourse. No point in even spending the effort trying to fight it.

skabbo
11-12-2010, 02:22 PM
The problem with people posting on opi and IRL is that they always claim that they haven't seen cocaine in 8 years or something similar. Most of these cases, they are probably guilty but trying to figure a way to climb out of the hole.




Trust me, I have zero reason to lie in this situation. All I'd stand to lose is my take-home, which is only one day a week at this point. Besides, if I was just lying to get out of losing my takehome, what would be the point of coming here to start a thread asking if it happened to anyone else? Occam's razor here, the simplest explanation is the right one.

And the unsettling thing is, this isn't even the first time this has happened, but it wasn't for cocaine. I was on probation in 2005, and I was one month from getting off - had been testing clean for a year, and if I violated, I risked going in for a 27 year mandatory minimum.. I came up positive for marijuana. I had not smoked, or been around anyone who smoked, in over a year. Since right before I was arrested, and like I said, my year was almost over.. I would've had to have been a complete fucking idiot to risk 27 years just to smoke some weed. I swear on whatever the hell us junkies still hold sacred to swear on, I didn't touch pot that time, or coke this time.
So, while I realize many have experienced these tests to be extremely accurate, that experience unfortunately hasn't been common to everyone, which makes it all the more frustrating to argue against when something like this does happen.
As far as probation, I convinced my PO to re-test me, and [luckily] got the prosecutor to accept the second test, which showed me clean immediately afterwards, as sufficient evidence that it was a false positive, but for about 3 days there, I thought I was going to spend most of my adult life in prison because of these tests, so my feelings towards them are less than charitable now.