Adderall Eats Brains

[Cherry's Jubilee]

Adderall Abuse Alters Brain, Claims a Young Life (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/adderall-psychosis-suicide-college-students-abuse-study-drug/story?id=12066619&page=1) ABC News November 8, 2010


TL;DR: A 21-year-old Vanderbilt student ultimately committs suicide by standing in the path of an oncoming train after partying with friends. He was under a lot of pressure to maintain a 4.0 and study abroad and be awesome at some rich kid sport that I can't remember. He was taking prescription adderall at the time. In hindsight, his friends and family were able to recognize increasingly frequent and alarming patterns of behavior that were symptomatic of clinical depression and severe anxiety. The kid was seeking help from a therapist but apparently had just begun treatment when he tragically chose to end his life.

It follows, of course, that all the parents, teachers, and media are exclusively blaming adderall for his death. So they publish "factual" articles and definitively present adderall as the cause of death regardless of the fact that there exists an infinite number of unknown factors that could have caused or contributed to his anxiety and depression and influenced his decision to end his life. I totally agree that the stims probably weren't helping the situation at all, and very likely made things worse. Everyone knows that amphetamines and anxiety are usually a pretty bad combo and tend to increase symptoms like panic attacks, insomnia, and paranoia.

I understand WHY they want to blame the adderall--adderall is concrete and external and it's much more comfortable to identify ADDERALL as the sole villain, the demon that struck in the darkness, stronger than any man--than to consider that perhaps the poor kid was struggling with his sexuality or had begun to process long-suppressed memories of childhood trauma as a Catholic alterboy.

Question/Issue #1: is it really LEGAL to imply that sort of thing in journalism? I know that stories are sensationalized but I also know that there are ethics that apply to reporting and it seems bizarre to claim that adderall claimed his life. I'm sure the autopsy determined that getting run over by the train was the cause of death, not adderall. Could adderall sue? Isn't it kind of like slander? His therapeutic records are confidential but maybe he said why he wanted to die and it had nothing to do with adderall or depression. Maybe he said, "Hey, by the way, I left the Catholic Church for a way cooler religion. Anyway, I'm thinking I might go ahead and die because there are 72 virgins waiting for me and I'm not getting any pussy around here."

Question/Issue #2: Is there any truth to the following quote?
"In a patient with ADHD, the amygdala -- the part of the brain that controls emotions and aggression -- is overactive, and stimulants like Adderall slow it down. But over time, in adults without the disorder, the drug can destroy the receptors in the brain that allow a person to feel pleasure. 'It teaches the brain that it doesn't need to make dopamine and dopamine is the only chemical in the brain that once it is damaged, you never get it back,' said Schultz. Not only that, but the drug can sometimes trigger severe depression, and irreversible schizophrenia and bipolar disorder."
(http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/adderall-psychosis-suicide-college-students-abuse-study-drug/story?id=12066619&page=2)
Specifically, can stimulants "destroy" receptors and prevent you from ever feeling pleasure again? And the part about "teaching the brain not to make dopamine"--we all know that happens to a certain extent, like your brain suppresses its own chemicals for awhile--but this claims that once that happens, dopamine is the only chemical in the brain that never comes back. Is this a fear tactic or is it true? Is that what PAWS is--the longterm absence of natural dopamine because you permanently fucked up your receptors?
(http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/adderall-psychosis-suicide-college-students-abuse-study-drug/story?id=12066619&page=2)

[duck]

on that same note, adderall has a very very shitty rush. Swim tried it last night with a big dose, and wow, weak.


Good read though, thanks for posting.

[Thanat0s]

CJ:

i know some long term methAMph users
been off the drug for years,
and they still havent come back.

at high level long term use
i dont doubt that long term
if not permanent changes
take place.

at 21 though,
and in a high functioning college kid?

id say some sensationalism is at play
in a journalists overactive imagination...

[duck]

CJ:
i know some long term methAMph users
been off the drug for years,
and they still havent come back.
at high level long term use
i dont doubt that long term
if not permanent changes
take place.
at 21 though,
and in a high functioning college kid?
id say some sensationalism is at play
in a journalists overactive imagination...

Re journalist sensationalism: I agree completely than, and I'm guessing cj does also, considering the.thread title, lol.

I've known dozens and dozens of college kids had been taking adderall for 4 years at high doses, often with a benzo and/or ssri. None of them ever got spun way out on the shit. Seem pretty normal...a lot like people on smt or mmt.

Methamp is hard to. Compare, because often the doses are SO much higher. A lot of people in my home town in Missouri are on the stuff, and I will dabble for the hell of it and to get work done. My buddy and I can easily finish a gram in one sitting, so even if its only 50% pure that's still 250mg each. And those people smoke about a teener a day of that shit per person...and their stuff is fire, $280 a ball!! But its hard to complain when your ball is one giant solid cloudy beautiful crystal.:)

Auburn, Methamp, GOOD methamp, is a fucking amazing drug. This past summer we got some FIRE. I took several hits fom the bubble and jumped on my friends Buell xb12s and met god while redining and wheelying into the next gear.

The rush from methamp is fucking awesome also, especially with some smack in it.



A big part of methamp is learning to smoke a bubble properly....night and day.

I love.bein amped.up but I hate the spun feeling after a four hours, and try to only fuck with t if I have some opiates to pad the fall.

[Flowergirl]

Jesus. Having a child on stimulant medication scares the HELL out of me. It is so hard to know what the right thing to do is.

[duck]

Jesus. Having a child on stimulant medication scares the HELL out of me. It is so hard to know what the right thing to do is.

IMHO kids are scripted adderall and other add stimulant meds wayyyy to often. you mean a little bundle of energy doesn't want to sit silently in a classroom for 7 hours a day, and he MUST have add or adhd because he dosnt want to pay attention to a dumbass state teacher talk about the implications of Eli Whitney and his fucking cotton gin.

I think so many kids are erroneously diagnosed with an attention disorby getting them dependant on a strong stimulant.

A lot of kids genuinely do have severe focus.issues and they should get the treatment they need; but imho its way overcorrected when really they are just being kids. you have to really consider what kind of burden you're placing on the child by getting them severely functionally and psychologically Dependant on stimulants.

[Import]

When I was in 9th grade and got "diagnosed", not only did they put me on huge doses of concerta, but they talked my mom into getting on concerta and my dad onto adderall.

Shit fucked my mom up, and she no longer takes it. My dad takes a low dose of adderall when he needs it, and he's cool.

"adult add"=$$$!!!

And yeah, I believe chronic stim abuse can permanently damage dopamine receptors. You hear about various stims regarded as 'neurotoxic'. In these cases, the neurotoxicity directly refers to the destruction of dopaminergic brain cells. According to wiki, methamp is supposed to be more highly neurotoxic than dextro/adderall salts.

This whole thing is a product of taking many many klonopin. Still fucked up this morning. Fact check later, and be nice.
Import
zzzzzzz

[mainline]

Adderall and I have that in common.

[LayinLow]

Agreed duck. Just about every time I go into a pharmacy I see a mom/dad with a little kid discussing doses, cost etc of very potent stimulants. It makes me feel sad. I just look at the little kid, and can't really see how much good they're doing to their brains taking these once or twice a day. He has to be told to remember to wipe his ass, yet he's getting ritalin or adderall handed to him every day. Most of the time it seems like the mother needs it way more than the child.

[ausativa]

I was on Pretty much every add med there is.. Patches and subl. tabs. They work but after a few years of day in day out amphetamines I got very irritable. But I needed the medication or I would of with out a doubt failed school. Many "acts of rage" through out highschool. Always at the home tho for some reason:confused:
I probably wanted to jump out in front of a train too. But I made goodgrades but obviously it didn't take me very far since I never went to college and became a homeless opiate addict. FML

[Flowergirl]

IMHO kids are scripted adderall and other add stimulant meds wayyyy to often. you mean a little bundle of energy doesn't want to sit silently in a classroom for 7 hours a day, and he MUST have add or adhd because he dosnt want to pay attention to a dumbass state teacher talk about the implications of Eli Whitney and his fucking cotton gin.
I think so many kids are erroneously diagnosed with an attention disorby getting them dependant on a strong stimulant.
A lot of kids genuinely do have severe focus.issues and they should get the treatment they need; but imho its way overcorrected when really they are just being kids. you have to really consider what kind of burden you're placing on the child by getting them severely functionally and psychologically Dependant on stimulants.

I agree in regard to children being overprescribed when the problem is the parent. No doubt I do fail as a mom, I'm not perfect, but I am confident his diagnosis is correct. The difference between him 3 years ago and now, on Vyvanse and in therapy, is night and day. He gets a monthly session with his psychiatrist (who is a GOD), every other Saturday am is a group session, and parents go one night a month as a group.

I can't tell you the peace this treatment has brought to our household. We were broken. Bad. All of us. Everything, every fucking thing you could imagine, centered around him and his "moods" and our anticipation of his behavior. School was a miserable failure, yet this child was seriously bright. Dude built the Lego Death Star at age 4, no joke. Fixed it upon a major crash 6 months later with no directions. Maybe our anxiety about the mayhem became a self-fulfilling prophecy, hell if I know. We knew there was a problem, and just didn't know what to do. It was WAY more than typical cage-appropriate behavior.

I DO know what we're doing is working. I insist on quarterly pediatrician visits, regular echocardiograms, blood work, all kinds of excess shit that, on paper along with what we see, and feedback from the psych and his teachers, tells me he's ok.

Fuck, being a parent is hard. I'm pretty much doomed, for realz. What adult doesn't have some problem, and what loving mom doesn't beat herself up over it? He's color-blind - my fault. He has Asperger's Syndrome and anxiety - my fault. OCD tendencies - my fault. My other kids get hosed on the attention department because I'm wrapped up with a special-needs child - my fault.

My point, that I can't seem to get to, is that, for now, things are good. Great, actually. There's debate on taking children off the medication for periods of time, and I do currently do that. Summers, some weekends, most long weekends or other various school breaks.

I don't appreciate one fucking bit that I was handed this situation, but I was, we were, and we deal. Then we get to a smooth place and I freak myself out wondering why the increasing rates of the diagnoses we have. Perfect pregnancy aside from rh incompatibility, no drug, alcohol, or tobacco use... Mommy with an idyllic childhood and a decent education, daddy from a fucked home, but he grew from it instead of wallowing in it and repeating the cycle... Whatever.

I appreciate everyone's views on the matter, by the way. ;)

[comeondogbarkbite]

i know this is off topic but i read that article and saw this one

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/man-caffeinated-psychosis-defense-hit-run/story?id=9306666

and thought it was funny. driving under the influence of caffiene? how does that even happen? last time i was in the hopsital they gave me two big ass bags of iv caffiene and i wasnt buzzed or nothing. how is this a valid defense? btw adderal sux

[LayinLow]

flowergirl, your situation seems to be made for therapy and medications. If things get that bad, then meds are there for a reason. You seem to be going at it the correct way too, and couple the meds with other behavior modifications that will help much, much more than meds alone. Don't get down on yourself. You seem to be dealing with this situation perfectly, and I applaud your parenting skills. Stop blaming yourself.
What do I even know, I don't have kids. It does seem they give out these C-II drugs a lot quicker than others. I have seen a few stories on the DEA looking in stim Rxing, nothing like painkillers, which I hear bad stories of weekly.

[Opiyum]

i know this is off topic but i read that article and saw this one

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/man-caffeinated-psychosis-defense-hit-run/story?id=9306666

and thought it was funny. driving under the influence of caffiene? how does that even happen? last time i was in the hopsital they gave me two big ass bags of iv caffiene and i wasnt buzzed or nothing. how is this a valid defense? btw adderal sux
There was probably only a couple hundred milligrams(at most half a gram in 24 hours I would think) of caffeine all together in those bags. It's extremely rare but in some people caffeine, especially in high doses(5-10grams or more a day), can illicit some pretty intense responses.
From John's Hopkin's:
Common features of caffeine intoxication include nervousness (anxiety), restlessness, excitement, insomnia, rambling flow of thought and speech, gastrointestinal upset, tremors, tachycardia, diuresis, muscle twitching, periods of inexhaustibility, and psychomotor agitation. In addition, there have been reports of patients with caffeine intoxication having fever, irritability, tremors, sensory disturbances, tachypnea, and headaches. High dose caffeine toxicity is very rarely fatal.
In my opinion, from that article, it sounds like the guy maybe put a bit too much mescaline in his coffee. I hate when that happens....no I mean I love when that happens.


As for the original topic...
Someone mentioned (maybe the article) that the adderal probably wasn't helping the kids situation but there is also the chance that it was the only thing keeping him alive, or one of the only things. People have a wide variety of responses to that mix of amphetamine salts and they don't necessarily always increase the likely hood of panic attacks. In any case I play in a band with two people that take adderal every day and neither of them are suicidal. Or at least they aren't exhibiting any suicidal tendencies that I've noticed.
I like the idea, in some respect, of adderal, and who ever makes it, suing for slander. At the same time I understand that I can't possibly understand the grief and despair those parents must be going through and if they get any relief from blaming some inanimate object than so be it. There's really no harm in it especially when it comes to amphetamine. It's not as if some story like this is going to change someones mind about amphetamines. That damage has already been done and those that do inform themselves know that some amphetamines are perfectly harmless and incredibly awe inspiring, consciousness expanding drugs and others are neuro-toxic and highly addictive and to be avoided or at the very least used with great caution.

[LayinLow]

There are people who take 5-10 GRAMS of caffeine a day? Yikes, no one I would like to have around every day.

[irish]

I am super sensitive to caffeine, likely do to major overuse while in the military. I can't even drink a can of coke without having a MAJOR panic attack, I can see how someone like me could have major problems if they ingested a few cups of coffee.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Jesus. Having a child on stimulant medication scares the HELL out of me. It is so hard to know what the right thing to do is.

ah Flowergirl, sure is difficult at times to know what the right thing is,
BUT I KNOW- your doing the right thing,
including and/or especially hanging out on Opi,
that will serve you well to-
the best we all can do is just to try
nice that your here, me dear
<3


The article -YES, journalist sensationalism:
Note-there's a fuckton of a long way between proper use of meds to full blown tweaker. IMO-it the 'tweaker' lifestyle, not the drugs that could cause more permanent damage. Stay awake for 72 ++HOURS crash, repeat cycle over and over. I believe it the lack of SLEEP that would cause the damage. Restorative sleep is how the body repairs in any person. Take that away, or fucker with it for years, yes there could/would be damage done- permanent-IDK?
Point being at take a fuckton of abuse to even get there.

I like Opiyum note- 'perhaps the meds where what save his life that long,'I'd agree w/ POV.
I had 3 friends kill themselves during HS years, none drug related,
maybe if they had proper treatment w/ drugs- who knows they could still be around...

[digby]

It's all about the quantities. Almost every single drug is toxic if the quantity is large enough, including vitamins, aspirin, herbs and certain fruits and vegetables.

The argument in favor of amphetamines for ADHD and ADD kids is that the quantities of the drug are not large enough to do any serious damage if taken as directed. Triple or quadruple the dose or more and that argument goes out the window. But no one really knows that the actual safe limit is. They feel they know approximately where it is, and prescription dosage normally falls under those limits.

As for the original article - the fellow has poor pen control. I'm sure he meant (well, not entirely sure - he sounded a bit half-baked) the part of the brain that either creates or receives the dopamine, not the dopamine itself being deleted. He pointed out in his previous sentence that the brain "makes dopamine", then goes on to say that dopamine once gone is the only thing that can never be replaced. Dumb ass.