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methadonian
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Swim is thinking about an early spring planting of some poppies next year and is considering how many plants he will need to produce about a pound of opium. Swim has also been doing some studying on how opium is processed into morphine base and then into heroin and finds that, if done correctly, is'nt as complicated and involved a process as most people would think. The ratio's for converting opium into morphine are about 10 to 1 with about a 3 to 1 ratio from there to heroin,...albiet the final product would'nt necessarily be #4 grade heroin but still a very usable product. Swim thinks that he can start with 16 ounces of crude, freshly harvested opium, and end up with between 1 1/2 to 1 ounce of heroin. Also ,after cutting, could feasably end up with 3 or 4 scrambled ounces of finished product to do with as he pleases.

Swim wonders about the finished product and potency/purity of what he will end up with. There is a book out called "hydroponic heroin" where some people actually grow/harvest/and chemically produce their own heroin without ever leaving the comfort of their own castle.:cool:

Morphus
10-04-2010, 02:57 PM
If you had the acreage, and the time to cultivate and harvest 1lb of O why mess around trying to turn it to H? Good O is fine by itself.

I havent read hydroponic H, I think the consensus is that recreational cultivation of O to yield H is very impractical in terms of labor,expenditure, space and risk. Growing some pods is of course easy and satisfying, but there is really no way around the fact that poppy cultivation yields a relatively low amount of morph per sq. foot.

nick
10-04-2010, 03:06 PM
Unless you're in Afghanistan it's a pipe dream.

Hell,if it was remotely viable...........we'd all be doing it,huh.

upstate_007
10-04-2010, 03:11 PM
From the web:


A typical opium poppy farmer household in Southeast Asia will collect 2 to 5 choi or viss (3 to 9 kilograms) of opium from a year's harvest of a one-acre field


Yield per acre ranges from 1.5–2.5 kg


The yield of opium is calculated at 350 oz. per acre

JonnyM
10-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Good luck getting the Acetic Anyhydride without raising any flags.

More Feen
10-04-2010, 03:25 PM
Why would you want to cut a ~pure chemical?

Knowing exactly how much you have of something is nice, when it comes time to dose.

There's usually only one reason to cut something.....

M F

Benz
10-04-2010, 03:33 PM
I heard about someone doing this hydroponically. An entire flat (apartment) was used bar the kitchen. I was told the work to yield ratio prevented a second go. This method allowed for poppy stems to be much closer together than soil allows. Still, despite this & the high spec lights and water/feeding system, the O could only be extracted the traditional way...
Be that as it may, a garden project could be fun & rewarding.



Benz

Woody Bear
10-04-2010, 03:56 PM
The yield of morphine is so low per square meter growing area, that it would almost be cheaper to buy morphine on the street, then pay for electricity to grow pods indoors. In the UK, it's definitely cheaper to buy heroin, as it would cost more for the electricity needed to grow enough poppies to get the same amount of morphine as would be in a £10 bag of heroin.

It would be way more efficient to grow weed, then sell it and buy heroin.

But if you have space outdoors, then you could do a poppy patch. If you score them to collect opium, then 5 grams opium per square meter, is about as good as you could expect. That would give about 0.5 grams of morphine, perhaps a little more.

12-16 plants per square meter is a good planting density. So if you want to get a lot of morphine, then you'll have to grow an extremely large area full of poppies.

methadonian
10-04-2010, 08:22 PM
Unless you're in Afghanistan it's a pipe dream.

Hell,if it was remotely viable...........we'd all be doing it,huh.


Wrong,.....a lot of people are under the misconception that opium poppies only grow in certain areas of the world when they will actually grow just about anywhere provided the conditions are met. Most poppies hate humidity and high heat and have a growth cycle that is shorter than growing cannabis. They love lots of sunlight especially in the later stages of their growth cycle. Also most people I know can spot a pot plant a mile away but not everyone is aware of what an opium poppy even looks like. I once took a handful of seeds I had saved from a pod order and threw them in my back yard without doing anything to cultivate and nurture them along. A few months later I had an explosion of papaver somniferum growing like wild weeds in my back friggin yard. Here it is 5 years later and I still have a problem with them if I let my grass grow too high. Also I have been told but don't know if this is true or not that the "Mccormick" brand of poppy seeds that you find in the seasoning isle of your local grocery store are a very viable seed that will grow as well.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. I go down and by a small bottle of seeds for a $1.99 and 4 months later I got a giant ball of opium maintenance free. Boy oh boy God really is good.

Coddfish
10-04-2010, 08:30 PM
omg. Srsly.

More Feen
10-04-2010, 08:34 PM
Wow...,

Time to stop typing about it and get plantin' !

Take lots of pics and share with us--okay?

M F

nick
10-04-2010, 08:47 PM
Wrong,.....a lot of people are under the misconception that opium poppies only grow in certain areas of the world when they will actually grow just about anywhere provided the conditions are met. Most poppies hate humidity and high heat and have a growth cycle that is shorter than growing cannabis. They love lots of sunlight especially in the later stages of their growth cycle. Also most people I know can spot a pot plant a mile away but not everyone is aware of what an opium poppy even looks like. I once took a handful of seeds I had saved from a pod order and threw them in my back yard without doing anything to cultivate and nurture them along. A few months later I had an explosion of papaver somniferum growing like wild weeds in my back friggin yard. Here it is 5 years later and I still have a problem with them if I let my grass grow too high. Also I have been told but don't know if this is true or not that the "Mccormick" brand of poppy seeds that you find in the seasoning isle of your local grocery store are a very viable seed that will grow as well.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. I go down and by a small bottle of seeds for a $1.99 and 4 months later I got a giant ball of opium maintenance free. Boy oh boy God really is good.

You're funny.
Listen man,I wasn't referring to growing conditions!! Growing poppies is the EASY part.I meant unless you're in a lawless narco state good luck acquiring the requisite chemicals,actually producing a usable product and avoiding arrest and prosecution.

Basically,the costs actual and potential make it an unviable proposition-unless you have amazing resources and are prepared to possibly invest your life and liberty.

As I say,if it were easy........we'd all be doing it,wouldn't we?

duck
10-05-2010, 03:42 AM
So mamasou lives in a failed narco state?

If you have even just a few acres its not hard to find a clearing away from peering eyes.

Woody Bear
10-05-2010, 04:08 AM
Ok, to produce a pound of opium, you'll need 454 g / 5 g/m2 = 90.8 m2 growing area.

That's about a 30 m x 30 m plot of land. And you'll only get 5 grams opium per square meter, if the ground is well prepared, which means well dug up before planting.

If you just throw seeds on the ground, you yield will be tiny in comparison.

Also opium harvesting, is so labour intensive, that you're looking at days of work scoring and scraping that patch. You'd be best off forgetting about producing opium, and just harvest the pods and extract pods. That way is less risky legally, although the inital extraction will need quite large buckets to hold the pods.

bindegal
10-05-2010, 04:55 AM
Unless you're in Afghanistan it's a pipe dream.

Hell,if it was remotely viable...........we'd all be doing it,huh.

Some of the poppies with highest morphine content was grown up there in Denmark by the danish pharmaceutical company Novo Nordisk.
One advantage of growing farther down south is that you can have multiple harvest per year. Up here it's only possible to have a commercial harvest per year.
But if you grow for fun in you garden, you may be lucky to harvest twice.
To the OP, it is quite simply not worthwhile. A few years ago there was a forum where there were several who tried, you can plant them the hydro, but the yield is minimal.

More Feen
10-05-2010, 06:52 AM
Ok, to produce a pound of opium, you'll need 454 g / 5 g/m2 = 90.8 m2 growing area.

That's about a 30 m x 30 m plot of land. .

Is my math right?

The Sqrt of 90.8 is ~9.5m. So a square garden that is 9.5m on each side should give you 90.8m2.

For Americans, 9.5m = 370.5 inches = 30.9 feet on a side.

So 30.9ft x 30.9ft = a garden of 953 sq ft.

A garden that is 30m x 30m = 900 meters square, or 97.5ft x 97.5ft, with an area of 9,506 square ft.

M F

PS --don't want the guy over-planting

doctor diesel
10-05-2010, 07:43 AM
What I want to know is how a bunch of barbarians with massive beards and towels round their heads, manage to make top grade heroin from opium while squatting on their haunches in the sand, uninterrupted supply of acetic anhydride et al. I mean, what do these near-medieval peasants know that we don't?


Doc

Woody Bear
10-05-2010, 07:55 AM
Totally right More Feen, I got my maths wrong. I divided it up in my head instead of using the square root function on the calculator.

30 x 30 m = 900 square meters. Not 90 like I said.

9.5m x 9.5m = 90.25 m2

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------


What I want to know is how a bunch of barbarians with massive beards and towels round their heads, manage to make top grade heroin from opium while squatting on their haunches in the sand, uninterrupted supply of acetic anhydride et al. I mean, what do these near-medieval peasants know that we don't?
Child labour and wages of £0.02 an hour. That's the only reason why cocaine and heroin are cheap compared to the labour cost of producing the huge amounts of plant materials required to produce 1 gram of cocaine or heroin.

If poppy and coca growers were paid £4 an hour, then cocaine and heroin would cost more like £1000 per gram.

I've extracted morphine from my pods, and for the amount of work put in for a tiny 2 gram annual harvest, it's just not worth it from a financial cost analysis perspective. It would be cheaper for me to work a job stacking shelf at Tescos for so many hours, then buying heroin with the wages, compared to working in my garden growing poppies then extracting them.

doctor diesel
10-05-2010, 08:05 AM
I've extracted morphine from my pods, and for the amount of work put in for a tiny 2 gram annual harvest, it's just not worth it from a financial cost analysis perspective. It would be cheaper for me to work a job stacking shelf at Tescos for so many hours, then buying heroin with the wages, compared to working in my garden growing poppies then extracting them.


Wow. That puts in perspective for all budding home chemists. Closest I ever got to home chemistry was CWEs and pod tea making.


Doc

To Each His Gnome
10-05-2010, 08:59 AM
Also I have been told but don't know if this is true or not that the "Mccormick" brand of poppy seeds that you find in the seasoning isle of your local grocery store are a very viable seed that will grow as well.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. I go down and by a small bottle of seeds for a $1.99 and 4 months later I got a giant ball of opium maintenance free. Boy oh boy God really is good.

If you are gonna grow poppies, don't use grocery store seeds. SWIM was able to order a 7 gram pack of Popaver Somniferum Gigantheum seeds from Europe and it was only $10, shipping and all. I think it's worth spending the extra $8 to get good REAL seeds.

But I agree with most folks on here, growing that much square footage of poppies + aquiring Acetic Anhydride= good luck not getting noticed by anyone. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's more work and risk than you're thinking it is, I'm sure.

More Feen
10-05-2010, 09:25 AM
The real question is how do the clandestine labs get their acetic anhydride?

Back when film photography was the only game in town (exclude video) AA could be used by "film" companies to make cellulose acetate (is this really old film?).

Also, companies that make aspirin would use AA, some of that could be diverted.

Its probably best not to talk about HOW to make your own AA. But I'd assume one would start with glacial acetic acid. Whatever is done to GAA to make AA is probably what these clandestine labs do.

Could they simply let wine go bad, to become vinegar, then make GAA from that, then AA from that?

Woody-B-- I did use my calculator--no way could I do that in my noggin.

M F

devilsdrug
10-05-2010, 09:58 AM
have fun tryin , but its not really feasible

doctor diesel
10-05-2010, 10:13 AM
I'd rather eat an opium sandwich than drink a half pint of heroin.
No I don't know what I'm talking about.

upstate_007
10-05-2010, 10:24 AM
What I want to know is how a bunch of barbarians with massive beards and towels round their heads, manage to make top grade heroin from opium while squatting on their haunches in the sand, uninterrupted supply of acetic anhydride et al. I mean, what do these near-medieval peasants know that we don't?


Doc

It's not what they know that we don't. It's the availability of chemicals and space to grow poppies without raising eyebrows.

The process is relatively simple. That is fact. But for us westerners to gather all the pieces of the puzzle is difficult and prohibitively expensive.

By all means grow some poppies though. No reason not to. Just be realistic with your goals.

More Feen
10-05-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm not one to underestimate anyone, BUT,

I think that many of those people who process opium into heroin aren't well-educated chemists, BUT well-educated chemists have taught the methods that have been passed-down from one clandestine lab to the next.

After being shown How a few times, another lab worker would have a good "feel" about how to do the refining processes.

I think Nat Geo channel showed some lab worker processing cocaine, he was using a weed-whacker to chop the coca leaves, added kerosene etc.., and stomped around on the leaves to extract the bases. He carried around sulphuric acid (note the British spelling of Sulfuric) in a used water bottle, for making coca paste.

Basically, he knows what to use & when, and what to look out for (too much of one chemical, or not enough), but prolly doesn't know exactly what the reactions are doing. If you asked him to apply that knowledge to some other chemical reaction, he'd likely not do it correctly, until shown how.

Baking bread is complicated, if you don't read the instructions (proofing, punching-down, etc...) or have had someone show you how, or learn how to use your ingredients. You might end-up with something like beer, if you're lucky. Once you learn how things are done, you can make some tasty bread.

nick
10-05-2010, 03:11 PM
So mamasou lives in a failed narco state?

If you have even just a few acres its not hard to find a clearing away from peering eyes.

Duck,here's some free advice,feel free to take it or leave it,but I suggest you actually read the thread title and posts before responding.Mamasou has never made heroin(to my knowledge).

Any fool with access to private land can grow poppies and even make opium.Heroin is a different trip,no?

Producing H is possible,but it's just not worth it.

duck
10-05-2010, 03:36 PM
Duck,here's some free advice,feel free to take it or leave it,but I suggest you actually read the thread title and posts before responding.Mamasou has never made heroin(to my knowledge).

Any fool with access to private land can grow poppies and even make opium.Heroin is a different trip,no?

Producing H is possible,but it's just not worth it.

Nick, quit with your petty advice you give people, its extremely annoying because I really don't want you're advice. If you disagree just state it; lay off with the village elder crap. Advise whoever you want henceforth, just please don't advise me.

Re the thread, if u hadn't noticed the conversation had drifted toward the cultivation opium, and others had commented on making a mgmt amount of O.

nick
10-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Nick, quit with your petty advice you give people, its extremely annoying because I really don't want you're advice. If you disagree just state it; lay off with the village elder crap. Advise whoever you want henceforth, just please don't advise me.

Re the thread, if u hadn't noticed the conversation had drifted toward the cultivation opium, and others had commented on making a mgmt amount of O.

It's nothing to do with being an elder,village or otherwise and everything to do with being polite.
Being polite,I felt my post was better than saying "read the god damn posts and think about it because you sound dumb."Personally,I don't like to see someone who's supposed to be smart sound so dumb-hence the advice.

You're post ,quoting mine,was just lazy and that's fine,but don't expect not to get pulled for it,ya know.

NJDOKE
10-05-2010, 04:22 PM
Check out a book called Oxy as well. The name is deceiving but it might be right up your alley....:D

krinkov
10-05-2010, 07:33 PM
Nick, quit with your petty advice you give people, its extremely annoying because I really don't want you're advice. If you disagree just state it; lay off with the village elder crap. Advise whoever you want henceforth, just please don't advise me.

Re the thread, if u hadn't noticed the conversation had drifted toward the cultivation opium, and others had commented on making a mgmt amount of O.

Sorry for being dumb, but what is "mamasou"? I googled it but didn't really find anything.

To the OP, as has been already stated, it isn't worth it to do if you expect to get a large amount of H. Now OTOH, if you just want to do it to say you did, or just for the fun of it, that would be worth it. If I still had the land, I'd be growing poppies just for the hell of it. If I only got a gram of opium, so be it. It would be just to say I did it.

ETA:
Hell, you can buy seeds off Amazon.com. :

http://www.amazon.com/Danish-Flag-Afghan-Poppy-Seeds/dp/B000SOHVG4/ref=pd_bxgy_ol_text_b
http://www.amazon.com/Organic-White-Poppy-Papaver-Somniferum/dp/B000SONX0W/ref=pd_sim_b_5

Papaver Somniferum seeds right here in the USA.

Some one might want to check this book out too:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydroponic-Heroin-Opium-Poppies-Without/dp/1559501782/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Hydroponic Heroin: How to grow Opium poppies without soil.

mainline
10-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Sorry for being dumb, but what is "mamasou"? I googled it but didn't really find anything.

To the OP, as has been already stated, it isn't worth it to do if you expect to get a large amount of H. Now OTOH, if you just want to do it to say you did, or just for the fun of it, that would be worth it. If I still had the land, I'd be growing poppies just for the hell of it. If I only got a gram of opium, so be it. It would be just to say I did it.

ETA:
Hell, you can buy seeds off Amazon.com. :

http://www.amazon.com/Danish-Flag-Afghan-Poppy-Seeds/dp/B000SOHVG4/ref=pd_bxgy_ol_text_b
http://www.amazon.com/Organic-White-Poppy-Papaver-Somniferum/dp/B000SONX0W/ref=pd_sim_b_5

Papaver Somniferum seeds right here in the USA.





mamasou is a member here, krink. lol :P

jacky
10-05-2010, 07:53 PM
scrap milking a 90x90 foot poppy pod field......
or do so for the mere pleasure, or transgressive euphoria...

that 90x90 plot's potential lay in not just the opium....but the entire load.

plants tops, pods, straw, leaf, and roots all could be bulk extracted just like the companys do it.

milking opium is high profile...

not letting the plants reach maturity/flower is another option.

I read a bit about turkish production in a 1960's book I found at a state library....they found highest levels of opiates in the roots of plants that were just about to start flowering.
when the flower opens and the pod starts swelling with seed production and bract building, the alkaloids start moving up from the roots apparently.

my idea is to weed eat, very carefully, all the flower tops right as they start to bud.
It would probably take a person 50 -60 minutes to properly prune the flower tops.
as the flowers heal, you could beat the hell out of the plants with the weed eater...
and as well as growing poppy...you could also seed lactuca plants in with the poppys.
let some of the lactuca plants grow past the poppys, and to the untrained eye, you would have a bunch of plants that look more like weeds than anything.
by beating the hell out of the plants, you will bruise them...

check out dried pods sometimes...the bruised, banged up parts of the plant that dont succumb to mold, seem to be ripe with opium shellac...
after all, scoring a pod is just a controlled invasive wound.....
by beating the green pods, perhaps more alkaloid production could be coaxed.


the only real labor intensive part would be turning all the roots up and harvesting.....a tractor would obviously make much of this work very easy.

of course this process would cut out the self seeding potential of your garden...
but as poppy seeds are pretty cheap and widely avialable...
seeding the following winter/fall would be no problem.

I know one thing....
if I came across a bunch of opium, the last thing I would do is extract and isolate the alkaloids.
in my opinion, opium in its natural state is perfect...preferable.

heroin is so cheap and pure these days, its hard to compete with that.

krinkov
10-05-2010, 08:28 PM
mamasou is a member here, krink. lol :P

I knew it looked familiar. LOL

Woody Bear
10-06-2010, 05:08 AM
I read a bit about turkish production in a 1960's book I found at a state library....they found highest levels of opiates in the roots of plants that were just about to start flowering.
when the flower opens and the pod starts swelling with seed production and bract building, the alkaloids start moving up from the roots apparently.
I read that too. But in another book it explained that the alkaloids don't translocate. This means they don't start out in the roots and then move up the plant into the pods. What happens instead, is that the alkaloids are produced in lactifers, and pretty much stay in the lactifers, which are specialised resin producing cells. Before flowering the plant part with the highest lactifer concentration is the roots, but once flowering starts, the plant part with the highest lactifer concentration is the pods.

What that means is that cutting off the pods will not increase the amount of alkaloids, because you'd be eliminating the plant part with the highest amount of lactifer cells, which produce the alkaloids, the pods.

If you wanted to, you could do an experiment, where you grow two patches of poppies. On one patch you cut off the flowers, then harvest the roots. On the other patch, you let the flowers develop, and at the end harvest the pods and roots.

Then you'd extract both, and see which gives the highest total amount of alkaloids. I've not done that experiment myself, but I'd bet you'd have two or three times more plant material from the patch with both the pods and roots. So then even if the roots did have a higher concentration of alkaloids, you'd still get less total alkaloids because you'd be extracting a much smaller amount of plant material, than you'd get from harvesting the pods as well as the roots.

When I harvest my poppies, I save the pods, the stems and the roots. But I've not gotten around to extracting the roots myself yet, so at this stage, I'm not sure what the alkaloidal content of my batch of roots is.

itchintofix
10-06-2010, 06:50 AM
Growing some poppies in hydro sounds like fun to me, never mind the pathetic end yield I would just do it for the experience, growing isn't just about the destination but the journey too.... grow a nice south-east Asian sativa and make some nice opiated buds.

methadonian
10-06-2010, 06:54 AM
Swim speaks from a position of ignorance when he talks about converting opium into heroin. It would probably be a more feasable idea to simply harvest and use the opium. Still a morphine ph extraction might work provided the morphine alkalinity content in the opium is high enough. Swim has actually read that the Turkish strain of poppy has a higher morphine content as opposed to some thing like the Tasmanian poppy which is harvested by a lot of pharmacuetical companies for it's thebaine content.

Swim once considered a try at extracting the morphine from dried pods but that idea was given up on.Pod puddy and opium are very different in that the pod puddy has a much higher percentage of plant matter as opposed to raw opium. This is why smoking pod puddy is'nt such a hot idea. Even raw opium needs to be cooked and strained before you end up with something that is enjoyable to smoke. You don't necessarily have to cook it but it is a good idea to do so.

Harvesting the entire live plant while it has peaked at it's opium production and then attempting an extraction is an interesting idea but I am sure it is a much more involved process and might take someone with a good working knowledge of organic chemistry to do so. Anyway I think it might be something which is beyond Swim's ability I don't know. Maybe some pharmacuetical companies do this but I believe that the worlds legitimate opium production is actually grown by the pharmacuetical companies and the poppies strain is developed depending on it's particular application. I have heard that there was a poppy developed in Britain soley for it's morphine and they managed to develope a strain of poppy with a 20% morphine alkaloid content which is high and would be an ideal type of opium for conversion to heroin.

Or better yet......what about a conversion into something like a type of "tar heroin" provided the acetic anhydride was available for procurement? Interesting idea.

methadonian
10-06-2010, 07:28 AM
Check out a book called Oxy as well. The name is deceiving but it might be right up your alley....:D

I've been looking for it but no luck so far.........thanx:puterwork

MEKONE
10-07-2010, 08:06 AM
Some one might want to check this book out too:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydroponic-Heroin-Opium-Poppies-Without/dp/1559501782/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Hydroponic Heroin: How to grow Opium poppies without soil.I own this book as well a a bunch of others.This book is good to have if your into collecting books like these (Which I am)however if your buying it as a guide you can find MUCH BETTER information on the net.If you can find it for cheaper than what it usually sells for then grab it but if not surf the net for awhile.

I've been looking for it but no luck so far.........thanx:puterworkJust do a Amazon search for it and it will pop up,also the ISBN # is 9780966312829. This book is geared towards people that know their chem..If not then this is NOT a good book to use as a guide.

Growing some poppies in hydro sounds like fun to me, never mind the pathetic end yield I would just do it for the experience.Growing can be a very fun experience but as you already said the yield sucks,LOL.Hydro growing,although much more fun than soil (IMHO)can also cost a pretty penny and require MUCH more attention than soil.

Most poppies hate humidityIn order for the seeds to germinate they need humidity.

Also I have been told but don't know if this is true or not that the "Mccormick" brand of poppy seeds that you find in the seasoning isle of your local grocery store are a very viable seed that will grow as well.
YES they are very viable seeds,they usually produce Tazzies.The seeds that you may find from sellers,although they may be expensive,produce much bigger pods.

I got a giant ball of opiumYou probably won't have a GIANT ball of "O" but you'll have a small amount for personal use.

China white
10-07-2010, 09:37 AM
Why would you want to cut a ~pure chemical?

Knowing exactly how much you have of something is nice, when it comes time to dose.

There's usually only one reason to cut something.....

M F
I could understand why one would cut something a little bit, maybe from 100% to anywhere to 50% to 80% just so what you have isnt so deadly

More Feen
10-07-2010, 05:32 PM
I could understand why one would cut something a little bit, maybe from 100% to anywhere to 50% to 80% just so what you have isnt so deadly


Well, say you're talking about having 100% morphine sulphate powder (or other soluable opiate), I would want to dissolve that in water/saline to a KNOWN concentration of 15mg/mL or 20mg/mL. That way dosing would be easy:

2mL = 30mg or 40mg, etc....

The way the OP posted it, it sounded like he was cutting it for sale, not diluting it for use.

My assumption may have been wrong though.

M F

Kenaz
11-04-2010, 10:50 AM
Do a little bit of research on "Kompot," also known as "hanka" or "chernaya" in Russia. If you have access to a good-sized quantity of poppy straw and a whole lot of aspirin it is definitely possible to make homemade heroin. The guy who mentioned aspirin was on to something: one can back-engineer aspirin to recover some of the acetic anhydride used in its creation.

That being said, we're talking about bales of poppy straw. In much of Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries, poppies are grown for their seeds. The remaining poppy straw is nearly useless - you can't feed it to cattle unless they are really hungry, since it tastes bitter to them -- and if they eat too much of it they can die from intestinal blockages and constipation (something which will be familiar to anyone who has consumed poppy tea). As a result, addicts can buy huge quantities for a pittance, sometimes even taking it for free.

There are several steps involved in making kompot (I go into more detail in my book, but I don't want to run into any rules against synthesis discussions). The end result contains a good deal of diacetylmorphine, along with morphine, other poppy alkaloids, and deities only know what else.

Thanat0s
11-04-2010, 11:26 AM
KOMPOT is in NO way heroin.

ill pass on a tester of that shit...

Kenaz
11-04-2010, 11:45 AM
KOMPOT is in NO way heroin.

ill pass on a tester of that shit...

If the classic Gdansk kompot recipe is used, there will be at least some diacetylmorphine in the final product. There will also be a lot of plain morphine: people I have spoken to who have used it report that it gives the prickly "pins and needles" morphine rush. But there is an acetylization process involved, albeit one so crude it would give the makers of the nastiest black tar heroin pause.

GOLD N DIEMONDS
11-04-2010, 01:05 PM
KOMPOT is in NO way heroin.

ill pass on a tester of that shit...

ah yea CORRECT- Thant is per thee norm

at best, a desperate substitution for



PS- ah note -eating a pod can gives a those prickly too, so what

Disconnect
11-04-2010, 01:35 PM
I was wondering about this, myself. SWIM has inherited about ten acres of rural land, out in the woods here in Alabama. The soil is good, there's a private lake and even a greenhouse. Trees surround it. You can't see the road or any neighbors from it and it's in a pretty quiet little area. SWIM was wondering if it would be worth it to grow poppies just for pods and seeds on that land, without fucking with too much chemistry or any of that. H sounds like too much effort to this person.

Thanat0s
11-04-2010, 01:41 PM
best use of the space is simply to grow good pods,
MAYBE score and collect latex,
then dry for teas.


dont even bother with 'heroin...'
itll never happen,
at best youd waste your pods,
at worst youll really hurt/kill/imprison yourself.

harmonik
11-04-2010, 02:31 PM
best use of the space is simply to grow good pods,
MAYBE score and collect latex,
then dry for teas.


dont even bother with 'heroin...'
itll never happen,
at best youd waste your pods,
at worst youll really hurt/kill/imprison yourself.
agreed.

what was it, somewhere between 20-50 pods for just a gram of opium? and even then, it's highly uncertain... depends on strain variation, climate, methods of scoring, nutrients, etc...

a good read for this ( http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1960-01-01_1_page005.html )

given that one had 10 acres of land, very good supply of AA, and perfected the process of opium refining... the output of heroin would be pretty negligible, IMO.

Michael.
11-16-2010, 02:29 PM
The idea of doing it from opium resin sounds totally stupid to me. An amateur would have difficulty extracting a pure morphine from the different shit in the poppies.

Morphine to heroin however is very realistic and is done here all the time. Shit, it's normal to get a few bars of AA with your pill. I've come to expect it.

chopstix
11-16-2010, 03:55 PM
The idea of doing it from opium resin sounds totally stupid to me. An amateur would have difficulty extracting a pure morphine from the different shit in the poppies.

Morphine to heroin however is very realistic and is done here all the time. Shit, it's normal to get a few bars of AA with your pill. I've come to expect it.

It's actually quite easy to freebase morphine from poppies, just like it is during an A/B purification by freebasing and isolating diamorph.. It might seem complex if not familiar, but if you've ever rocked up coke it's the same principle..

duck
11-16-2010, 04:27 PM
Could you also use a centerfuge (sp?) To separate the goods from the pod gunk?

Michael.
11-16-2010, 04:46 PM
Interesting. I'm no chem whizz. I left school at 15 and everything about cooking homebake I know from being shown, I dont really understand the chemical aspects of it.

Would the process be similar to extracting the morphine from tablets by precipitating it out?

Billy the kid
11-16-2010, 05:42 PM
AFAIK, a simple Acid/Base extraction would get a refined alkaloid mix but it wouldn't be pure morphine. There are certain solvents however that will specifically pull out the morphine from the other alkaloids. I do not know what those are but More Feen had a great thread on extracting morphine from poppy straw.

If you acetylated the alkaloid mix and then salted you would end up with an acetylated pantopon type product which would be awesome. This is all in theory though. Actually growing the poppies and doing all of this yourself is just not practical or possible in most cases.

Import
11-16-2010, 05:44 PM
If you score the pods and collect the latex, would the pods then be shitty for making tea? Or do they retain/regenerate enough alkaloids to dry and make good tea?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I know very little about how pods work.

FlapJack
11-16-2010, 06:53 PM
What I want to know is how a bunch of barbarians with massive beards and towels round their heads, manage to make top grade heroin from opium while squatting on their haunches in the sand, uninterrupted supply of acetic anhydride et al. I mean, what do these near-medieval peasants know that we don't?


Doc

I know this is old and I haven't read the rest of the thread but damn yo that's some ignorant shit.

I really hope that's some kind of sarcasm.

duck
11-16-2010, 07:22 PM
I know this is old and I haven't read the rest of the thread but damn yo that's some ignorant shit.
I really hope that's some kind of sarcasm.

Fuck off.

FlapJack
11-16-2010, 07:59 PM
?

I'm seriously wondering if that was some kind of pseudo sarcastic fox news joke. Those "Barbarians" all around the world make the clothes you're wearing, the furniture you're sitting on and probably alot of the food you eat, and you don't understand how they can be taught to recreate a few simple chemical procedures? Opium's always been grown and heroin has largely been produced in clandestine labs populating the third world as have all other drugs and many other commodities.

If they can take gold out of rock using mercury with a rag over their face then I'm sure they don't have a problem producing heroin seeing as is it's probably the most profitable and attainable business for most people in many regions of Afghanistan to be in.

You honestly think that post was a pillar of intelligence? If it was a joke maybe it wouldn't be too far from it and I may be wrong.

And I got no problem with dd or anything in fact if it wasn't just a joke that narrowly missed the top of my head then he'd probably see what I'm saying if he reads his post again, whether he thinks I'm a moron because he was joking, or a prick for blowing it way out of proportion.

I don't post much but something in his post struck a chord and for some reason I was compelled to make a concise comment, forgive me.

More Feen
11-17-2010, 10:37 AM
If there are any fans of analogies out there, I would make one with this topic & pancakes (or as the British like to call them: "Flippy-pan-pan-Blinnie-crepes").

* Is it difficult to make Pancakes?
* Do you have to grow your own grain, mill it, raise hens for their eggs & cows for their milk & butter? Do you have Maple trees you can tap? A flat rock to cook them on, over a fire?
* Or can you buy these ingredients at your local grocer?

I know this analogy seems pretty stupid & basic, but it comes down to what you are starting wif. If you already have the ingredients ready to go, making pancakes is simple.

Starting from scratch, not so much.

M F

Thanat0s
11-17-2010, 11:45 AM
?
I'm seriously wondering if that was some kind of pseudo sarcastic fox news joke. Those "Barbarians" all around the world make the clothes you're wearing, the furniture you're sitting on and probably alot of the food you eat, and you don't understand how they can be taught to recreate a few simple chemical procedures? Opium's always been grown and heroin has largely been produced in clandestine labs populating the third world as have all other drugs and many other commodities.
If they can take gold out of rock using mercury with a rag over their face then I'm sure they don't have a problem producing heroin seeing as is it's probably the most profitable and attainable business for most people in many regions of Afghanistan to be in.
You honestly think that post was a pillar of intelligence? If it was a joke maybe it wouldn't be too far from it and I may be wrong.
And I got no problem with dd or anything in fact if it wasn't just a joke that narrowly missed the top of my head then he'd probably see what I'm saying if he reads his post again, whether he thinks I'm a moron because he was joking, or a prick for blowing it way out of proportion.
I don't post much but something in his post struck a chord and for some reason I was compelled to make a concise comment, forgive me.

sarcasm,