AH-7921 (Simple to make @ home ;-)

[borohydride]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/AH-7921_structure.png

Direct combination of the 2 compounds below in anhydrous conditions:

3,4-Dichlorobenzoyl Chloride [CAS 3024-72-4]
(1-Aminomethyl-cyclohexyl) dimethylamine [CAS 41806-09-1]

Both materials are commercially available. The drug is totally unlike any currently controlled drug so no analog laws. It's almost exactly as potent as morphine (the +- values for this suggest it may be 5% stronger or something). I am currently waiting for my precursors to arrive. When they do I will make nice photos. I will try DMSO, DMF and a couple of other solvents and I want the HCl formed scavanged to increase yield - that will take some thinking about.

[duck]

That's a pretty sick ring on the alphamethyldioxide group

[borohydride]

Alphamethyldioxide? Are you referring to the 3,4 dichloro moety <confused>? I was just trying to suggest a morphine strength opioid that a non-chemist could potentially make. The prices of the precursors arn't too high, even Sigma Aldrich cannot take the piss too much (like they usually do).

[Woody Bear]

I was just trying to suggest a morphine strength opioid that a non-chemist working in a University Chemistry department or for chemical company, who has a Sigma Aldrich account could potentially make. The prices of the precursors arn't too high, even Sigma Aldrich cannot take the piss too much (like they usually do).
Fixed.

Chemical companies don't sell these sorts of reagents to anyone off the street. You typically have to register with them to open an account, and in order to register you need to own or work for a business that has a reason for ordering the chemicals.

Now there are smaller independent chemical companies that will sell to individuals, but then you are restricted to buying more general chemicals with more uses, than the specialised reagents that you have been posting about so far.

By all mean's keep posting about chemistry, but in future make sure that any reaction you write about only requires reagents that can be bought OTC by an individual without having a chemical company account.

Also synthetic chemistry isn't something that anyone can do at home. It takes a certain skill set and equipment, which is why threads about it are only of limited value to most people here. Even if people do understand it, that doesn't mean that they are willing or able to do the reaction.

[borohydride]

OT: I was not suggesting Sigma Aldrich as a source. I just check their outragious prices, devide by 2 & expect to pay that from a local supplier. Happily I'm in the position to order small amounts of chemicals through a friend who is a pharmacist. Glassware is sold to anyone (& you can buy second hand off Ebay! All you need is a business account (which you pay money into first) and a company credit card. Then you can call your business whatever you like. Choose something vague like 'Core Design' or 'mole technology' Off the shelf companies are 10 a penny & references are NOT needed. Start by ordering glass wool and similar non-suspicious stuff then pay right away. After 3-4 transactions your cool with them...
I did the 6 times without a hitch.

You have to agree that chemically this stuff isn't controlled. If you have a buyer outside the US then the DEA go looking for them & if they are in Hong Kong or whatever, then they never find them.

[borohydride]

OT: I was not suggesting Sigma Aldrich as a source. I just check their outragious prices, devide by 2 & expect to pay that from a local supplier. Happily I'm in the position to order small amounts of chemicals through a friend who is a pharmacist. Glassware is sold to anyone (& you can buy second hand off Ebay! All you need is a business account (which you pay money into first) and a company credit card. Then you can call your business whatever you like. Choose something vague like 'Core Design' or 'mole technology' Off the shelf companies are 10 a penny & references are NOT needed. Start by ordering glass wool and similar non-suspicious stuff then pay right away. After 3-4 transactions your cool with them...
I did the 6 times without a hitch.

You have to agree that chemically this stuff isn't controlled. If you have a buyer outside the US then the DEA go looking for them & if they are in Hong Kong or whatever, then they never find them.

As long as your orders don't include watched chemicals (for drugs/bombs/poisons) then they can sell 'in good faith. I send them christmas & birthday cards. They feel comfortable with you. After a while you can order pretty much anything you want. 50l glass vessels were no problem at all...

[borohydride]

Fixed.

Chemical companies don't sell these sorts of reagents to anyone off the street. You typically have to register with them to open an account, and in order to register you need to own or work for a business that has a reason for ordering the chemicals.


Shell comanies cost only a few $100 to set up, whats the big deal? They also supply to academic institutes and the Chinese sell to anyone! There is no issue here...

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

Anyone else find this interesting?? OP, let us know some more when you get the precursors! Good Post

[Ludakris]

Anyone else find this interesting?? OP, let us know some more when you get the precursors! Good Post


I DO! I DO! I love chemistry and am very much a novice so I take a great interest when people post things like this. Probability of real world use aside, I find it interesting and would like to hear more.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Shell comanies cost only a few $100 to set up, whats the big deal? They also supply to academic institutes and the Chinese sell to anyone! There is no issue here...

oh yes there are HUGE issues
I would listen to Woody Bear if I were you
but than I don't tnink I know it all
so me will let you find out those issues
all on your own.

[wisegal]

Everytime someone posts one of these threads im just all

"damn that sounds cool and all but ... :confused::confused::confused: UHHHHHHMMMMM?!!??!!?"

[dharma bum]

Anyone else find this interesting?? OP, let us know some more when you get the precursors! Good Post


I'm def. interested. "Simple to make at home" caught my eye. Maybe I can learn?

[borohydride]

I never suggested Sigma Aldrich as supplier but they quote prices. That's ALL I use them for.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

I never suggested Sigma Aldrich as supplier but they quote prices. That's ALL I use them for.

:confused:
okay- what does that have to do with anything???
just worth noting you have NO idea what you may get from a China source
but still
that not really the issues.

you really missed the WHOLE big picture
me thinks

- guess you will find THAT out on your own.

[borohydride]

:confused:
okay- what does that have to do with anything???
just worth noting you have NO idea what you may get from a China source
but still
that not really the issues.

you really missed the WHOLE big picture
me thinks

- guess you will find THAT out on your own.

I wan a 2CI lab in The netherlands when it was legal? Anyone else?

[norseman]

I wonder if owning a farming business can get you through the door with some of the supply companies.

I know for my business I can order copious amounts of Dexamethasone, DMSO, Acepromazine and other tranq type nasties, Flunixin Megulamine, phenylbutazone, and syringes and needles of any gauge

[jacky]

some chinese companys will not only sell to individuals...but for nominal amounts of cash, they will send you "sample" amounts of various chems, especially organic compounds pulled from plant materials.

one such company sent me a hundred grams of some natural compound called matrine that was reported to have opioid interaction, indirect if not direct...

I had only asked for a FEW grams and sent 20$ to them, it cost me more to wire the money than it cost me to buy the sample.

next thing I know I have a strange package in the mail only a week later, and did not expect to see the package for at least a month or two.
the company sent it express...
and sent me more matrine than I will need in a lifetime...

anyway, AH-7921 sounds like an interesting one for sure...
I would be a bit worried about the research chemical nature of the compound, and wouldnt want to get habituated to a compound that I dont know much about..
never the less, if an easy reaction of a few steps was possible with relatively benign substances it would be amazing if the result was something worth while.

[Thanat0s]

some chinese companys will not only sell to individuals...but for nominal amounts of cash, they will send you "sample" amounts of various chems, especially organic compounds pulled from plant materials.

one such company sent me a hundred grams of some natural compound called matrine that was reported to have opioid interaction, indirect if not direct...

I had only asked for a FEW grams and sent 20$ to them, it cost me more to wire the money than it cost me to buy the sample.

next thing I know I have a strange package in the mail only a week later, and did not expect to see the package for at least a month or two.
the company sent it express...
and sent me more matrine than I will need in a lifetime...

anyway, AH-7921 sounds like an interesting one for sure...
I would be a bit worried about the research chemical nature of the compound, and wouldnt want to get habituated to a compound that I dont know much about..
never the less, if an easy reaction of a few steps was possible with relatively benign substances it would be amazing if the result was something worth while.

the goose what laid the golden egg, my friend?


(its out there!)

[borohydride]

I wan a 2CI lab in The netherlands when it was legal? Anyone else?

2000

---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

Most Chinese sell to anyone IF you give a company name & pay by money transfer...

[borohydride]

I cannot post leads but-

1-get a catalogue
2-order safe stuff a few times
3-bore the fuck out of the operator so he hands you to someone else
4-your there

I mistakenly ordered ethylene chloride & all they did was query it! Order cyclizine - it sold for £1 in the UK!

[borohydride]

some chinese companys will not only sell to individuals...but for nominal amounts of cash, they will send you "sample" amounts of various chems, especially organic compounds pulled from plant materials.

one such company sent me a hundred grams of some natural compound called matrine that was reported to have opioid interaction, indirect if not direct...

I had only asked for a FEW grams and sent 20$ to them, it cost me more to wire the money than it cost me to buy the sample.

next thing I know I have a strange package in the mail only a week later, and did not expect to see the package for at least a month or two.
the company sent it express...
and sent me more matrine than I will need in a lifetime...

anyway, AH-7921 sounds like an interesting one for sure...
I would be a bit worried about the research chemical nature of the compound, and wouldnt want to get habituated to a compound that I dont know much about..
never the less, if an easy reaction of a few steps was possible with relatively benign substances it would be amazing if the result was something worth while.

This man is right on the money. Sorry for not reading it properly before :-( The Chinese DO have drug laws so you still have to be a little careful. You can get custom synthesis done as well...

B-)

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------

I am having trouble finding the synthesis of this. It wasn't patented & 'British journal of pharmacology 49 (1): 158P–159 Anti-nociceptive effects in N-substituted cyclohexylmethylbenzamides (R T Brittain, D N Kellett, M L Neat, and R Stables) doesn't go into the chemistry.

The problem is that when an acid halide reacts with an amine, an acid is formed (HCl in this case) which will react with other amines. What is needed is a scavenger base. Now, simply using NaOH would result in the formation of H2O and that would not be good. I am considering NaH or LiH because they are potent bases & only NaCl (which drops out of solution) and H2 gas (so safety, folks) are evolved.

If anyone can suggest a better scavenger then please tell me.

With thanks,
B-)

[borohydride]

US Patent 3975443 has a 1-step, RT synthesis yielding over 70%. US Patent 4346101 has a lower yielding & more fiddly route (Lednicer makes EVERYTHING complex) BUT he uses triethanolamine & THF in place of pyridine as the solvent system. His product has a MP of 208-209 whereas the former patent is 215-216C so theirs seems purer. Recrystalization using ethyl acetate/DCM seems simple enough...

Now, just a case of finding a good (cheap) source of (1-aminomethyl-cyclohexyl)-dimethylamine. Lednicer makes it from cyclohexanone, dimethylamine & KCN in high yields... that may be the way to go unless someone finds where the stuff is used commercially (as an intermediate I would hazard) & ask for a supply...

[havok]

By all mean's keep posting about chemistry, but in future make sure that any reaction you write about only requires reagents that can be bought OTC by an individual without having a chemical company account.



So now we have restrictions on what chemistry topics people can post about? What is this a communist board now? Who made you the head censor? The whole point of this board is that people are free to discuss any kind of chemistry/synthesis, not just what you deem to be appropriate. The OP is discussing a synthesis method for an unscheduled chemical, the source of the precursor chemicals is irrelevant. So kindly shut the fuck up.

[borohydride]

The problem with this compound is not the availability of the chemicals - DOZENS of places offered me their services; it's the cost. (1-aminomethyl-cyclohexyl)-dimethylamine is just too expensive for an M potency drug - DIY a la Lednicer looks OK as long as you don't mind working with KCN and can get it (UK has the Poisons List).

[imonsomeacid]

Wow, this is definitely interesting. I stumbled upon this thread while reading another one on here about novel research opioids.

Any word on what is going on with it. Has any one assayed or synthed it?

[irish]

The whole research chemical industry is fascinating, but I find it scary at the same time. Sure, this stuff has a similar effect to morphine, but are my kids going to have tails and antennae?

[Disconnect]

I really wanna know about the stuff you can make from morphine with lithium battery acid that's supposedly 10x stronger and lasts longer too. . . how to extract the proper chemical from the battery (I doubt it's pure), how to keep it from burning your eyes/lungs while you're burning it off, etc. SWIM will do it if you'll tell me so I can relay it to her. She's very curious and wants to feel it for herself.

[Larkin]

I really wanna know about the stuff you can make from morphine with lithium battery acid that's supposedly 10x stronger and lasts longer too. . . how to extract the proper chemical from the battery (I doubt it's pure), how to keep it from burning your eyes/lungs while you're burning it off, etc. SWIM will do it if you'll tell me so I can relay it to her. She's very curious and wants to feel it for herself.

what in the hell are you talking about? lithium is used to make meth, never heard of a morphine based reaction though got a link?

[Disconnect]

what in the hell are you talking about? lithium is used to make meth, never heard of a morphine based reaction though got a link?

look at the thread titled something like "IV users: which do you prefer, mallies or abg's" in the morphine section. I promise I'm not nuts. or at least not that nuts.

[doctor diesel]

You could all be talking in mandarin chinese for all I understand.
Goodnight.



Doc

[Woody Bear]

what in the hell are you talking about? lithium is used to make meth, never heard of a morphine based reaction though got a link?
look at the thread titled something like "IV users: which do you prefer, mallies or abg's" in the morphine section. I promise I'm not nuts. or at least not that nuts.
The thread is called: "IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s)". Here's borohydride's post about it:

If I were paying for morphine then I would be converting it to ά-chloromorphide by simply extracting morphine from pills, adding a few drops of thionyl chloride (from a lithium battery) & boiling off the liquid until I got a powder. It's x10 as potent & lasts a lot longer.... that's just me, of course. US Patent 2,694,067 gives a very simple route (dissolve morphine freebase in DCM, drip in SOCl2... wait!)

There's no lithium used in that reaction, it instead uses thionyl chloride which is only found in a certain type of industrial lithium batteries, not the type you can buy in supermarkets. These batteries are not used in civilian products because of safety concerns (they can explode when short-circuited). So you better be careful if trying to take one apart.

Wikipedia's page on thionyl chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thionyl_chloride) says:

SOCl2 is a reactive compound that can explosively release dangerous gases upon contact with water and other reagents. It releases hydrochloric acid and sulphur dioxide as it reacts, so don't breathe it in, and don't let it get wet.

And although Borohydride says the method used in US Patent 2,694,067 is: "dissolve morphine freebase in DCM, drip in SOCl2... wait!", if you read the patent and do understand the chemistry, then you'll know that Boro's summary of it wouldn't work. Because morphine is scarcely soluble in DCM, and what the patent actually says is they needed reaction temperatures of 55 - 90°C, in chloroform or tetrachlorethane, and even with a large amount of thionyl chloride it still took 15-20 hours of refluxing in order to convert.

DCM = dichloromethane, which has a boiling point of 39.6°C. That means that refluxing DCM could only reach 39.6°C, so DCM can't reach the temperature needed for this conversion.

Also in the IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s) thread, borohydride replies to onewayonly's question on how to extract morphine from pills:

Dissolve morphine in minimal amount of water, add NaOH (caustic soda/lye) & add an equal volume of DCM. Shake for several minutes. The freebase morphine is all in the DCM. There will be a small quantity of water in there but it won't hurt (just use slightly more SOCl2).
This is flat out wrong. At best it could extract about 8% of the morphine, the other 92% of the morphine would be in the water, as morphine is water soluble in sodium hydroxide solution. The fact that borohydride claims that it works, proves that he has not done a morphine extraction like that, despite claiming to. Plus the patent authors took great pains to ensure that all water was excluded from the reaction, so boro's claims are both wrong and potentially very dangerous if done indoors without a gas mask.

Chloroform, the solvent favored by the patent authors, if heated to dryness produces phosgene gas, which is a poisonous gas that was used as a chemical weapon in WW1.

So while US Patent 2,694,067 is an interesting article, trying it out without a couple years of experience in organic chemistry may well be fatal. If you can't do a morphine extraction, you've no business advising people on how do to synthesis requiring batteries that explode if you short-circuit the contacts, and that need solvents that form chemical weapons during storage and/or when overheated.

[ausativa]

The thread is called: "IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s)". Here's borohydride's post about it:


There's no lithium used in that reaction, it instead uses thionyl chloride which is only found in a certain type of industrial lithium batteries, not the type you can buy in supermarkets. These batteries are not used in civilian products because of safety concerns (they can explode when short-circuited). So you better be careful if trying to take one apart.

Wikipedia's page on thionyl chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thionyl_chloride) says:
It releases hydrochloric acid and sulphur dioxide as it reacts, so don't breathe it in, and don't let it get wet.

And although Borohydride says the method used in US Patent 2,694,067 is: "dissolve morphine freebase in DCM, drip in SOCl2... wait!", if you read the patent and do understand the chemistry, then you'll know that Boro's summary of it wouldn't work. Because morphine is scarcely soluble in DCM, and what the patent actually says is they needed reaction temperatures of 55 - 90°C, in chloroform or tetrachlorethane, and even with a large amount of thionyl chloride it still took 15-20 hours of refluxing in order to convert.

DCM = dichloromethane, which has a boiling point of 39.6°C. That means that refluxing DCM could only reach 39.6°C, so DCM can't reach the temperature needed for this conversion.

Also in the IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s) thread, borohydride replies to onewayonly's question on how to extract morphine from pills:

This is flat out wrong. At best it could extract about 8% of the morphine, the other 92% of the morphine would be in the water, as morphine is water soluble in sodium hydroxide solution. The fact that borohydride claims that it works, proves that he has not done a morphine extraction like that, despite claiming to. Plus the patent authors took great pains to ensure that all water was excluded from the reaction, so boro's claims are both wrong and potentially very dangerous if done indoors without a gas mask.

Chloroform, the solvent favored by the patent authors, if heated to dryness produces phosgene gas, which is a poisonous gas that was used as a chemical weapon in WW1.

So while US Patent 2,694,067 is an interesting article, trying it out without a couple years of experience in organic chemistry may well be fatal. If you can't do a morphine extraction, you've no business advising people on how do to synthesis requiring batteries that explode if you short-circuit the contacts, and that need solvents that form chemical weapons during storage and/or when overheated.


this is harm reduction at its finest. kudos woody.

[borohydride]

The thread is called: "IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s)". Here's borohydride's post about it:


There's no lithium used in that reaction, it instead uses thionyl chloride which is only found in a certain type of industrial lithium batteries, not the type you can buy in supermarkets. These batteries are not used in civilian products because of safety concerns (they can explode when short-circuited). So you better be careful if trying to take one apart.

Wikipedia's page on thionyl chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thionyl_chloride) says:
It releases hydrochloric acid and sulphur dioxide as it reacts, so don't breathe it in, and don't let it get wet.

And although Borohydride says the method used in US Patent 2,694,067 is: "dissolve morphine freebase in DCM, drip in SOCl2... wait!", if you read the patent and do understand the chemistry, then you'll know that Boro's summary of it wouldn't work. Because morphine is scarcely soluble in DCM, and what the patent actually says is they needed reaction temperatures of 55 - 90°C, in chloroform or tetrachlorethane, and even with a large amount of thionyl chloride it still took 15-20 hours of refluxing in order to convert.

DCM = dichloromethane, which has a boiling point of 39.6°C. That means that refluxing DCM could only reach 39.6°C, so DCM can't reach the temperature needed for this conversion.

Also in the IV Users...ABGs or M's (http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?34029-IV-Users...ABGs-or-M-s) thread, borohydride replies to onewayonly's question on how to extract morphine from pills:

This is flat out wrong. At best it could extract about 8% of the morphine, the other 92% of the morphine would be in the water, as morphine is water soluble in sodium hydroxide solution. The fact that borohydride claims that it works, proves that he has not done a morphine extraction like that, despite claiming to. Plus the patent authors took great pains to ensure that all water was excluded from the reaction, so boro's claims are both wrong and potentially very dangerous if done indoors without a gas mask.

Chloroform, the solvent favored by the patent authors, if heated to dryness produces phosgene gas, which is a poisonous gas that was used as a chemical weapon in WW1.

So while US Patent 2,694,067 is an interesting article, trying it out without a couple years of experience in organic chemistry may well be fatal. If you can't do a morphine extraction, you've no business advising people on how do to synthesis requiring batteries that explode if you short-circuit the contacts, and that need solvents that form chemical weapons during storage and/or when overheated.

Thank you for the many corrections, Woody. What I would REALLY like is you to add some original stuff yourself. I mean, you obviously have enough ability & another person looking in different directions would make things much more fun!

I have tried PMing you asking what I considered quite reasonable questions, but you didn't bother to reply....

I would be the first to admit my summaries are often shoddy, but I always try to provide the original patent & recommend people read them!