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borohydride
09-18-2010, 10:37 AM
Hydrocodone is an interesting compound and a great starting compound. It's only 2 steps from 6-Methylenedihydrodesoxymorphine (6-MDDM) which is x80 morphine in potency.

Here is a cut & paste:

' ...6-Methylenedihydrodesoxymorphine is synthesised in two steps; first a Wittig reaction is used, reacting hydrocodone with methylenetriphenylphosphorane and an alkyl lithium reagent in diethyl ether to form 6-Methylenedihydrodesoxycodeine. The 3-methoxy group is then cleaved to hydroxy, by reaction with pyridine. The second step tends to be incomplete and often gives fairly low yields, but these can be improved by changing the reaction conditions...'

Here is a nice link:

http://www.acsmedchem.org/module/opioid.html

devilsdrug
09-18-2010, 03:12 PM
im sure glad u joined , as uve heard we had some really good chem guys in past, and now it looks like weve another ,

the good doctor
09-18-2010, 03:27 PM
Please quit posting these utterly untenable academic exercises in morphinan chemistry that can not be performed without access to a university laboratory and pharmaceutical reagents, as within the grasp of users. A total synthesis of fentanil wouldn't be much harder than what you described, and the precursors are much more widely available. I've never even heard of methylenetriphenylphosphorane; it probably needs to be synthed in situ from yet more precursors, making this far more than a 2-step synth. The Wittig reaction itself is complicated and very specific (e.g. unlike redox, it is not applied universally throughout chemical processes; it is applied only in very specific situations for the production of alkenes or ylid reagents): for Christ's sake, it won a Nobel Prize!

Whether borohydride has any actual grasp of the fundamentals of chemistry and chemical theory, or whether he's a cut and paster, remains to be seen, but from the first few posts of his, tends strongly towards the latter.

Boro, can you tell me what is a Wittig reaction?

duck
09-18-2010, 10:40 PM
This thread just got interesting

sweetpain
09-18-2010, 10:43 PM
Oh yea duck, oh yea-gonna be an interesting follow-up of there is one.

Welcome to our humble abode, hope you enjoy your stay.

love and peace,

More Feen
09-18-2010, 10:52 PM
I guess I gotta agree with le Bon Docteur.

If you have the tools & reagents (and skills), you can take coal tar (as your carbon source) and synthesize ANYTHING.

Lemme know when you find a procedure where one can take two coconut halves, clap them together with some Windex inside of them, and pour out 300mg of morphine.

M F

Cherry's Jubilee
09-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Please quit posting these utterly untenable academic exercises in morphinan chemistry that can not be performed without access to a university laboratory and pharmaceutical reagents, as within the grasp of users.

CJ's SO...

THANK YOU! Borohydride - do you actually think anyone on this board is going to acquire the necessary reagents, equipment, knowledge, and skill to complete any of these synths? Again, maybe it's different in the UK, but methylenetriphenylphosphorane? Good fucking luck!

If you have a decent one-pot from something (actually) available to something more potent, using available reagents, let us know. But this shit is useless.



The Wittig reaction itself is complicated and very specific (e.g. unlike redox, it is not applied universally throughout chemical processes; it is applied only in very specific situations for the production of alkenes or ylid reagents): for Christ's sake, it won a Nobel Prize!

Whether borohydride has any actual grasp of the fundamentals of chemistry and chemical theory, or whether he's a cut and paster, remains to be seen, but from the first few posts of his, tends strongly towards the latter.

Boro, can you tell me what is a Wittig reaction?
Last night, I was thinking "I've run a successful Wittig", but nope, that was a Wacker - on a certain isomer of a great-smelling essential oil

the good doctor
09-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Last night, I was thinking "I've run a successful Wittig", but nope, that was a Wacker - on a certain isomer of a great-smelling essential oil
Just buy a can of MeEtK, or acetone, but it might dry the skin out something awful.

borohydride
09-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Since the synthesis of fentanyl seems to be the benchmark, here is a reference:

A convenient one pot synthesis of fentanyl
Authors: Pradeep Kumar Gupta,; Ganesan, Kumaran; Pande, Ambuja; Ramesh Chandra Malhotra,
Source: Journal of Chemical Research, Volume 2005, Number 7, July 2005 , pp. 452-453(2)
Publisher: Science Reviews 2000 Ltd.

You will notice that the synthesis will work equally well for 3-MF by replacing the piperidone & to make beta hydroxy fentanyl if you replace the phenylacetaldehyde with phenylglyoxal. If you replace both...

nick
09-20-2010, 11:33 AM
I think I just realized why all of your chemists left. I just posted a link, I didn't 'big myself up' or make any comment on the difficulty of the procedure - what equipement/precursors you have access to I didn't ask.

Since the synthesis of fentanyl seems to be the benchmark, here is a reference:

A convenient one pot synthesis of fentanyl
Authors: Pradeep Kumar Gupta,; Ganesan, Kumaran; Pande, Ambuja; Ramesh Chandra Malhotra,
Source: Journal of Chemical Research, Volume 2005, Number 7, July 2005 , pp. 452-453(2)
Publisher: Science Reviews 2000 Ltd.

You will notice that the synthesis will work equally well for 3-MF by replacing the piperidone & to make beta hydroxy fentanyl if you replace the phenylacetaldehyde with phenylglyoxal. If you replace both...

If anyone has an issue with my presence then PM me, I only posted because I already feel like I'm being ganged up on. I guess for some people recognition on a board is as far as they will ever get, I THOUGHT I might be able to elicit some help on chemistry problems I have been unable to solve but it would appear not.

Man,your presence isn't an issue,but 6 odd posts on purely academic opiate chemistry is a little much.Maybe start a thread and add one chemical/reaction a week to it.

It's good to have some chemistry discussed again and your contribution is welcomed,but maybe slow down a little.

retrogradeamnesia
09-20-2010, 11:14 PM
Please quit posting these utterly untenable academic exercises in morphinan chemistry that can not be performed without access to a university laboratory and pharmaceutical reagents, as within the grasp of users...

QFT

GERMAN PATENTS FFS

Locke
09-21-2010, 02:43 AM
Man,your presence isn't an issue,but 6 odd posts on purely academic opiate chemistry is a little much.Maybe start a thread and add one chemical/reaction a week to it.

It's good to have some chemistry discussed again and your contribution is welcomed,but maybe slow down a little.

Yeah, I completely agree with this. There are people here who will find this interesting, but just make one thread and post all this stuff in there. Because nobody would have given you shit if they didn't see a half dozen threads all started by you. Well, somebody probably would have given you shit, but not many people. I'm sure you have plenty of interesting things to chime in on, so do a little bit of that and the very small amount of people who are interested in your science will find you and thank you duly for your contributions.

borohydride
09-21-2010, 08:46 AM
I certainly do not have all the answere. Iposted in the hope that it would be useful or a least interesting to others. I asked a question in the BDPC & W18 threads in the hope someone had reference. I wish to increase my knowledge in these syntheses.

I don't know everything & often people have great papers tucked away. One of them could solve my problems - so I ask!

As for the Wittig reaction, yes DISCOVERING the reaction got a nobel prize but it's not difficult - only obtainig the precursors is hard, Anyonw with the nous to buy an off the shelf company can worm their way in. It takes a few techniques, but it works. I'm not giving those secrets away but it's basically ordering glass wool & similar stuff the first few times then paying on the dot. Guess what? After that you are considered a good customer. Bore them to death - get 1 guys name and spend long times on the phone boring him. After a bit he asks a colleage to take the call and the first guy basically acts as your shill. 'great guy but so borig. Serve him quick or he will tie you up on the phone for an hour!' See, an inside man gives you the thumbs up. See? Come across as chemistry nerd with no friends. They get a comission so the stick with you, u=but they just want the order & for you to FUCK RIGHT OFF!

borohydride
09-21-2010, 09:55 AM
Oh, for anyone who hasn't got access to the 1-pot fentanyl synthesis (also 3 methyl fentanyl & betahydroxy fentanyl) here is the paper:
Overview
---------
Opiate agonists play a significant role in the short and long term alleviation of pain as well as in various fields of biomedical research.1-2 Among the three types of agonists, relatively specific for ?, ? and ? receptors respectively, ? agonists are therapeutically the most significant. 4-Anilidopiperidines3,4 represents a particular class of ? agonists which are characterised by a high analgesic potency, relatively short duration of action and a good overall safety margin during surgical anesthesia. Fentanyl [N-(1-phenethyl-4-piperidyl) propionanilide] is a prototype of this series.5,6 It is about 50–100 times more potent than morphine in humans with a fast onset and short duration of action. It acts in the central nervous system to relieve pain and is widely used in surgical anesthesia as the citrate salt at doses ranging from 2 to 50 ?g / kg.7 The low molecular weight, high potency and lipid solubility of fentanyl make it suitable for delivery via transdermal therapeutic system (TTS).8 Various methods for the synthesis of fentanyl have appeared in the literature.9-11 All of these methods however, require multiple steps and lengthy refluxing reaction conditions. The isolation and purification of the intermediate compounds is tedious and leads to increased time and energy consumption and reduction in overall yield.
Herein, we report a straightforward one pot synthesis of fentanyl that involves tandem reductive alkylation and amination reactions in presence of sodium triacetoxyborohydride (STAB) followed by N-acylation reaction (Scheme 1). Sodium triacetoxyborohydride is mainly used for the selective reduction of aldehydes,12 stereocontrolled reduction of ?-hydroxyketones to ?-antidiols13 and the reductive alkylation/amination of the amines.14 Our approach takes advantage of the mild reducing power of sodium triacetoxyborohydride. To preferentially reduce imines to amines in the presence of aldehyde and ketones.
The starting compound in the proposed scheme is 4-piperidone monohydrochloride 1 which is a bifunctional molecule containing keto and sec-amino functional groups. In the first step, the sec-amino group of this precursor was reductively alkylated with phenylacetaldehyde (1 equiv) in presence of sodium triacetoxyborohydride (1.4 equiv) to generate 1-(2-phenethyl)-4-piperidone. Under these reaction conditions, the ketonic function of the reactant remained intact due to the chemoselectivity of the reagent. No reduction of the aldehyde to the alcohol was observed. After completion of the step I, aniline (1 equiv) with additional amount of sodium triacetoxyborohydride (1.4 equiv) was added to the reaction mixture for reductive amination of keto group of 1-(2-phenethyl)-4-piperidone. Glacial acetic acid (2 equiv) was also added in the second step to accelerate the reductive amination of the keto group. After completion of step II, 4-anilino-N-phenethylpiperidine was converted to fentanyl 2 by dropwise addition of propionyl chloride to the reaction mixture in the final step. Isolation and purification of the fentanyl from the above reaction mixture was done by the following procedure. After the completion of the reaction, the reaction mixture was diluted with dichloromethane. It was then washed with aqueous sodium hydroxide solution followed by water. The product was purified by shaking organic phase with 2 N HCl which converted all the basic compounds along with desired product in to their hydrochloride salts. The organic phase was separated and washed well with water. The nonpolar fentanyl hydrochloride remained in the dichloromethane layer. Concentration of the organic phase gave crude fentanyl hydrochloride, which was recrystallised from acetone to give the pure salt as white powder. On treatment with 20% sodium hydroxide, fentanyl was obtained as colourless crystalline compound, m.p. 82–83 °C (lit3 83–84 °C) and characterised by its spectral data.
In conclusion, we describe a convenient and efficient one pot synthesis of fentanyl hydrochloride. This method is very simple and efficient. The whole reaction takes place under mild conditions and at room temperature. By performing three successive one pot reactions, separation and purification of the intermediates were excluded, thereby increasing the overall yield. This method can also be used for the synthesis of fentanyl analogues.
Experimental
------------
To a stirred suspension of 4-piperidone monohydrochloride (15.36 g, 0.1 mol) in dichloroethane (450 ml), triethylamine (27.87 ml, 0.2 mol) and phenylacetaldehyde (11.17 ml, 0.1 mol) were added and stirred for half an hour at room temperature under N2. Thereafter sodium triacetoxyborohydride (30 g, 0.14 mol) was added to the reaction mixture with continuous stirring. Reaction mixture was further stirred for 24 h. Aniline (9.12 ml, 0.1 mol), acetic acid (11.53 ml, 0.2 mol) and sodium triacetoxyborohydride (30 g, 0.14 mol) were then added and again stirred for 24 h. Propionyl chloride (26.16 ml, 0.3 mol) was then added dropwise and the mixture was stirred for 2 h. The reaction mixture was then diluted with dichloromethane and washed with 4% aqueous sodium hydroxide solution followed by water. The organic phase was then shaken with 2N HCl. The organic layer was separated and the aqueous layer was extracted with DCM. Combined organic phase was dried over sodium sulfate and concentrated to give crude HCl salt of fentanyl. Crude product was recrystallised with acetone to give white powder of fentanyl hydrochloride. The salt was treated with 20% NaOH to give fentanyl which was recrystallised from petroleum ether (60–80°), 13.44 g (40 %), m.p. 82–83 °C.
IR (KBr): 1657 cm-1. 1H NMR (400 MHz, CDCl3): ?= 0.99 (t, 3H, -CH3), 1.3–1.4 (m, 2H, Ph-CH2), 1.7–1.8 (m, 2H, -N-CH2), 1.85 (q, 2H,), 2.05–2.15 (m, 2H), 2.45 (dd, 2H), 2.65 (dd, 2H), 2.9–3.0 (m, 2H), 4.58–4.67 (m, 1H), 7.00–7.35 (m, 10 × Ar-H). 13C NMR (100 MHz, CDCl3): ?= 9.58, 22.57, 28.49, 30.56, 33.82, 52.14, 53.08, 60.46, 125.98, 128.21, 128.34, 128.59, 129.24, 130.41, 138.85, 140.24, 173.50.
EIMS (m/z): 336 [M+, C22H28N2O], 245, 202, 189, 146 (100), 132, 105, 96, 91, 77, 70, 57, 42.
References
-----------
1 A.F. Casy and R.T. Parfitt, Opioid Analgesics; Plenum Press, New York, 1986, p 287.
2 M. Williams, E.A Kowaluk and S.P. Arneric, J. Med. Chem., 1999, 42, 1481.
3 I.V. Micovic, M.D. Ivanovic, S.M. Vuckovic, M.S. Prostran, Lj. Dosen-Micovic and V.D. Kiricojevic, Bioorg. Med. Chem. Lett., 2000, 10, 2011.
4 I.V. Micovic, G.M. Roglic, M.D. Ivanovic, Lj. Dosen-Micovic, V.D. Kiricojevic and J.B. Popovic, J. Chem. Soc., Perkin Trans., 1, 1996, 2041.
5 P.A.J. Janssen, US Patent 3,164,600, 1965. 6 The Merck Index, 12th edn. Merck., Inc., NJ, 1996.
7 P.A.J. Janssen, C.J.E. Niemegeers and J.G.H. Dony, Arzeneim.-Forsch. (Drug Res.), 1963, 13, 502.
8 W. Jeal and P. Benfield, Drugs, 1997, 53 (1), 109. 9 Y. –G. Suh, K. –H. Cho and D. –Y. Shin, Arch. Pharmacol. Res.,1998, 21 (1), 70.
10 S. –H. Zee, C. –L. Lai, Y. –U. Wu and G. –S. Chen, K’Hsueh Fa Chan Yueh K’an, 1981, 9 (5), 387.
11 S. –H. Zee and W. –K. Wang, J. Chin. Chem. Soc., 1980, 27 (4), 147.
12 G.W. Gribble and D.C. Ferguson, J. Chem. Soc., Chem. Commun., 1975, 535.
13 D.A. Evans, K.T. Chapman and E.M.Carreira, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1988, 110, 3560.
14 A.F. Abdel- Magid, K.G. Carson, B.D. Harris, C.A. Maryanoff and R.D. Shah, J. Org. Chem., 1996, 61, 3849.
I'm sure people will say I just ripped it off another site -well I put it onto the other site after ordering the papers!
I understand that some people do the shell company thing. But fuck that. It's too much like work. And I'm on benefits.
Q.) How would it look to be claiming benefits while also being an owner of a chemistry company with the business address being a council house, and that the business records show no money going in or out, and no profit made?
A.) Well fucking dodgy.
Buying glacial acetic acid and making HBr from pool chems is something that's do able for any aspiring chemist. But setting up shell companies to order chemicals, is kind of like setting a cannabis grow in a factory instead of a closet or bedroom. It's just not worth it if you are just after a bit of personal smoke.

Brony
09-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Please quit posting these utterly untenable academic exercises in morphinan chemistry that can not be performed without access to a university laboratory and pharmaceutical reagents, as within the grasp of users. A total synthesis of fentanil wouldn't be much harder than what you described, and the precursors are much more widely available. I've never even heard of methylenetriphenylphosphorane; it probably needs to be synthed in situ from yet more precursors, making this far more than a 2-step synth. The Wittig reaction itself is complicated and very specific (e.g. unlike redox, it is not applied universally throughout chemical processes; it is applied only in very specific situations for the production of alkenes or ylid reagents): for Christ's sake, it won a Nobel Prize!
Whether borohydride has any actual grasp of the fundamentals of chemistry and chemical theory, or whether he's a cut and paster, remains to be seen, but from the first few posts of his, tends strongly towards the latter.
Boro, can you tell me what is a Wittig reaction?

Do you need to be an ass? The guy is a new member, and a little positive encouragement instead of a negative diatribe would be much appreciated.

borohydride
09-22-2010, 07:21 AM
Of course, you can attack the N-methyl with cyanogen bromide & remover with Fe(I)Cl producing norhydrocodone. Replacing the N-methyl with an N-phenylethyl should give a nice increase in potecny (it's about 12.5 according to my papers). That makes it 8x morphine which is 3/2x heroin.
Cyanogen bromide is NOT easy to work with but if you hsve access to large amounts of hydrocodone, it could be a possible route?

doctor diesel
09-22-2010, 08:42 AM
I love the way Borohydride ignores the jibes and just carries right on... makes me chuckle more than a bit!


Doc

mainline
09-22-2010, 09:39 AM
I love the way Borohydride ignores the jibes and just carries right on... makes me chuckle more than a bit!


Doc


It's fucking great, aint it Doc? Funny stuff around here lately

devilsdrug
09-22-2010, 09:41 AM
yeah what he said

GOLD N DIEMONDS
09-22-2010, 06:45 PM
Do you need to be an ass? The guy is a new member, and a little positive encouragement instead of a negative diatribe would be much appreciated.

I don't understand, if the OP is a new member
why is his join date MAY 2007

or did I miss something?:confused:

Brony
09-22-2010, 10:34 PM
I don't understand, if the OP is a new member
why is his join date MAY 2007

or did I miss something?:confused:

My bad, I ignored his join date. I didn't see him post much, so I equated that with a noob. Simple mistake, that's all.

borohydride
09-25-2010, 04:36 AM
Forgiven ;-) I hold no grudges: your all friends ;-)

---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

You now have the fentanyl synthesis. You can make 3MF or ohmefentanyl with it (8 isomers) but and interesting one is 3 methyl 3 hydroxy. 4x 3MF... look in the Janssen patents.

opiomagik
12-03-2010, 09:02 AM
Call me stupid, but I enjoy each and every synthesis I can get my hands on...it's interesting the way the world works, and whether people like it or not everywhere around you chemistry can be found. But, maybe it's just me i love opiates and i love chemistry so opi-chemistry fascinates me....

You know what they say, one man's shit is another's treasure...

hd69
12-03-2010, 11:50 AM
So, do the coconuts need to be dried or is fresh OK?
Will a generic brand of Windex work just as well?
I'm off to market to purchase these along with steel wool, I promise to be boring and hold up the check out line as long as possible.:rolleyes:

doctor diesel
12-03-2010, 11:56 AM
I must say Boro seems to have a sweet nature, and does not rise to provocation. An honorable characteristic indeed.


Doc

GOLD N DIEMONDS
12-03-2010, 02:07 PM
I must say Boro seems to have a sweet nature, and does not rise to provocation. An honorable characteristic indeed.


Doc

Ah yes the sweet nature Boro, IMO his true intentions here are rather questionable.
His Shell corps and all the trigger key words in most of his title of threads.
Have you noticed none of the 'real' chemist here have responded to him?

danny
12-03-2010, 02:23 PM
Ah yes the sweet nature Boro, IMO his true intentions here are rather questionable.
His Shell corps and all the trigger key words in most of his title of threads.
Have you noticed none of the 'real' chemist here have responded to him?

dyou think hes 5-0 g'n'd? say it if you do my man.....

as for 'real' chemists on here i thought most of the ones who used to post didnt any more for one reason and another

just out of interest why do you think that more of him than anyone else on here whos posted chem questions and threads?

SuperJunky
12-03-2010, 04:19 PM
To hell w/ hydro, get codeine, revert it to thebaine then your three steps to etorphine...

For the love of god fent is a nice thing, from experience, but keep it to yourself, people will try, fuck up and die... Even if they nail it they're fuckin screwed. Tolerance sky rockets, every junky you know will be on you till you run out and then you feel like you've let every one else down... Even a very skilled chemist in WD can fuck shit up.

Seriously, I'm all for the free sharing of info, but be ethical. A one pot fent synth huh? how many chems are watched? Any one have access to NMR so they know the shot they're about to do won't kill them? And once you have a 100mg a day fent habit (it will happen) you can jump back to that tolerance even after a year plus in less than a week... No lies here, just the painful wisdom I've obtained, am living and watching others live. There is no more high for me and the lowest I've been able to get my tolerance is 40mg of methedone in split doses w/ cats claw and bacopa, a massive benzo habbit, amphetamine for ocasional depression breaks and since the fent I can't stand SSRI's or even the smallest amount of an antagonist (such as that found in 1/10th of an 8mg suboxone) regardless of how many days I wait before tacking it. If I run through my 'done script early I need a half finger every 2 days to stay straight or 300mg of morphine IR broken up in 6 doses just to stay "straight.

Not to mention I'm losing my fucking mind, godawful nightmares most of which make no sense.
Bizarre visions of those that used w/ us. Fent has cost me every friend I had... Fent has cost me almost everything...

IF ANY ONE HERE ACTUALLY MAKES FENTANYL HCL IMMEDIATELY DISSOLVE IT ALL IN WATER, LOT'S OF IT, DESTROY EVERY SYRINGE LARGER THAN 1/3CC IN YOUR POSSESSION, MAKE SURE SOME ONE ELSE IS THERE FOR YOUR MAIDEN VOYAGE, THEN ADD MORE WATER SO YOU HAVE IT ABOUT HEROIN STRENGTH OR LESS.

Flonut7
12-03-2010, 05:39 PM
I hear your words junky and i too know the razors edge one rides while on the rollar coaster of fentanyl addiction. I do not have much to offer on the OPs post or the subject of wheather or not posting ideas and/or instructions on chem experiments is kosher or not, but i do agree with your feelings on how dangerous Fent is and that people should avoid it like the plauge unless they are ready to enter a new level of addiciton. While i cannot imagine having a 100MG a day habit for both financial and tolerence reasons, i do have experience with what the reality of Fent addiciton is.

I had never even heard of Fent three years ago when a PM doc put me on the patch to battle the pain caused by my pancreatic dissorder, and my experience with opiate addiction at that point was limited to a nor-co and morphine habit that i would now classify as mild. My intro to the Fent patch also marks my intro to this site and these forems. In reality this site actually provided me with my first instructions on how to smoke my patches and allthough i place no blame what so ever on opiophile or its members, as i am an adult and chose to read and put into practice the information i obtained, i must say that my world was forever changed in many horrible ways after i started smoking and abusing Fentanyl on a daily basis.

I managed to get off the patch in march of 2009, but it cost me 15000$ to be medically detoxed, not to mention the cost of three rehab programs, and although i managed to stay off of Fent for over a year and a half, much of psycological damage i had accrued is permanant.

Three months ago after a short hospital stay that was both caused by my chroinic condition and me running out of my prescription of PO pain meds that i was on at the time, the doctors decided to put me back on the patch. While my family and myself where both scared to have me back on the patch, my need for pain relief and the deep rooted desiere to obtain stronger drugs, in this case my DOC, i accepted the Dr.s script for the 75mcg patches.

now only a few months later i am near tears reading my own and junkys post. my patches have been increased in strength and i just spent my thanksgiving in the hospital because i ran out of my script early and both the physical pain i feel without the patch and the fear of a withdrawl that in my experience is unmatched in severity by any other WD from any other substance was too much for me to take on alone. I wish i never let myself go back down the path created by Fent addiction, and allthough the pain relief is unmatched by anyother med i have tried, i know where this will all lead and the few months of pain relief i might gain from the patch will undoubtedly be replaced by a longer span of time filled with deep depression, physical pain, intense WD and more then likley some half assed suicide attempt followed by another letdown to my family and friends who have invested too much of their time and energy into a lost cause.

Superjunky i hope you and your friends are doing ok, and are getting help if you need it. I wish you the best of luck with all your legal problems and allthough you seem to know your way around the Fent game well enough if i can offer you any help, i would be more then happy to do so.

Count Zero
12-03-2010, 05:53 PM
Both posts repped. Makes me very glad I never fucked with that shit, read it and learn children.

limitless_euphoria
12-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Here's my proposal: make a sub forum for chemistry, then, for those of us who don't have an IQ of 160+ and a Ph.D. in chemistry have the option of following those oh-so-scintillating threads or maybe not... I mean, I consider myself a nerd with an above average intellect (no genius here) but I feel like Forrest Gump reading some of your posts boro.

All due respect, I'm not making this into an ad hominem attack. I'm suggesting a diplomatic solution so that chemistry nerds have a sub forum of their own and for the uninterested among us, it can be skipped over.

My suggestion for a title would be "oipo chemistry and synthesis" or something along those lines. Then all the chemistry dorks can prattle away with their ideas whether it be "you can really try this at home without your doctorate" or "extremely theoretical in nature."

As always, my 2¢.