Calcium Channel Blockers/potentiation

[vaxn8]

I have read a lot of posts about substances used to potentiate opiates (gf juice ect.). My question is, haven't you guys heard of calcium channel blockers? I spent several years working on it in a lab and know there are lots of papers talking about it. Along with enhancing antinociception they have also been show to prevent tolerance development and other things (depending on the type of Ca channel they block). Anyway, was just wondering if anyone else has tried this or even read much about it? It's not my area of research anymore (jobwise), so I haven't kept up on it as well as I used to.

[devilsdrug]

clue us in cause u are obviously the one to do it insider info and all that u hav sworn not to divulge for the good of the company ect ect ect ,

[vaxn8]

Hey DD. No, it's not proprietary info the work I did was at a university and was published so it's available to the public. Basically what's been shown is that you can do a few things by co-administering Ca2+ channel blockers and opiates.

First, most Ca2+ channel blockers are used to lower blood pressure. Most of the work has been done in N-type Ca2+ channels, a specific kind that has been shown to be involved in opiate tolerance. The Ca2+ blockers are also used for other things, in my case they are supposed to dilate blood vessels, same mech of action as lowering bp, but in my case it is supposed to decrease pain. I'm not sure if it does that or not.

The drugs that block the N-type are nifedipine, nitrendipine, ect. The drug I have been taking along with my pain meds is an R-type blocker. The other day I was looking up some other info and checked to see if anyone had done anything with the R-type Ca channels and the papers I found showed pretty much the same thing as the N-type channels. You can prevent development of tolerance and improve pain control (in rats).

The interesting thing that I noticed is that since I have been taking it, over 2 years, I haven't had an increase in tolerance at all. I do have a really high tolerance, but it at least hasn't gone up. I've actually been on the exact script for over 2 years. I was just curious if anyone else was taking them or had read anything about it.

[insanesteveo]

thats another post with lots of information in it, thanks.

but i still dont understand to the fullest.

many people on here, including me, will most be interested in a list of all the drugs that are in this category. the generic names, name brands of the drugs. where can we get these? is it a supplement perhaps? get it at gnc?

id love to try it out.

[vaxn8]

Steveo-

This is actually a massive class of drugs. If anyone had it, most likely they would be on it to lower blood pressure. I mentioned the big ones, nifedipine, nitrendipine and amilopidine. If I run across a good list of them, i'll post it.

[jacky]

wow, this sounds like a better approach than my year long dxm daily regimine for opiate tolerance control, without the sideeffects of getting physical withdrawl symptoms of quitting dxm.

any organic calcium blockers known?
like perhaps an already used medicinal herb/food product?

thanks alot for this info, a real important peice of information.

[HistoryofMadness]

Its interesting you say that... I've noticed a definite potentiation from a Chinese herb called "danshen" (salvia miltiorrhiza). Its a 'blood mover' that slows my heartbeat (contraindicated with warfarin) and has a mild benzo quality.

I just checked and its been found to have characteristics of a Ca2+ calcium channel blocker. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Pharmacological+evidence+for+calcium+chan nel+inhibition+by+danshen+%28Salvia+miltiorrhiza%2 9+on+rat+isolated+femoral+artery.&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) That also possibly explains some very powerful OP Tea I drank one morning (talked to devilsdrug until I was sure I was going to pull through...) it was really that strong, and I never did understand why.

Besides the chamomille and passion flower (decent potentiators in high concentrations), which I use in nearly every cuppa, the only thing different from every other one was danshen...

It was supposed to have been a mild cup of tea with some danshen to help me relax, but it ended up being so strong I was nodding off typing, trying to keep my head up and eyes open, and worrying about how much I'd ingested.

Eventually I had to toss my breakfast to the wind before I started coming back around. It was really strange. Anyway I've got a great source for anyone that wants to give it a try... and no its not an employer or anything. . .

[vaxn8]

wow, this sounds like a better approach than my year long dxm daily regimine for opiate tolerance control, without the sideeffects of getting physical withdrawl symptoms of quitting dxm.

It's definitely a very easy and as far as I'm concerned an economical thing to do! As far as improving pain control, it is not just the vessel dilation that is causing that, I have personally tested that (on me, a human not a mouse). I have tried other vessel relaxants and haven't had the same improvement in pain control.

any organic calcium blockers known? like perhaps an already used medicinal herb/food product?

Hx o' Madness had a good point with respect to this. Ya know the majority of the drugs we have are dreived from natural strux. In my current state of mind & body, I can't recall the discovery of the Ca2+ blockers and what other naturals there may be. I'll definitely let ya know when I remember or have a chance to look it up.


thanks alot for this info, a real important peice of information. No prob, like I think I mentioned, I was surprised to see no one had ever mentioned or discussed it. Since I spent so long working on it, it has always been in the back of my mind. Just in the last year, I have been realizing how well it seems to be working for me (no clue why it took me so long- I guess I'm just used to most of my work being irrelevant to my personal life!).

A few other things.. when I get a chance, I'll write up a little more info for those interested. Really, what you are looking for are things that block very specific Ca2+ channel types. I think I mentioned the voltage gated N-type. There is also more recent work on the R type channels. Keep in mind there are many types of Ca2+ channels and you need to block these certain types. A more broad spectrum blocker not specific to the N or R types may just work if it is present in a large enough dose. You have to pay attention and not go too far with most of these because of the bp. The opiate on it's own is going to slow HR & resps, so you don't want to drop your bp a boat load. Smoking does help bring it up, even just after feeling the effects. A few times, i was concerned I went too far and smoking/moving around seemed to help with that. Of course there's going to be a point where you just can't reverse "too much" and that's going to be an individual thing! :D :D :D