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Buckshot
07-10-2010, 10:58 PM
I have found a reliable online vendor offering Temgesic 0.5mg Buprenorphone pills.

These pills are something I have no experience with.

Assuming someone didnt use opiates often and had little or no tollerance at all?
Do they have potential for abuse if a person just chipped with them?
Is this kind of opiate/opioid a decent high? Much euphoria?

Does this stuff contain any naltrexone, like thier suboxone counterparts?

josh667
07-10-2010, 11:13 PM
they do NOT contain naloxone. but if you have a habit beware....bupe can cause precipitated withdrawal on its own

GetinLow
07-11-2010, 01:07 AM
^^^ What he said..... But , they are most likely ... .02mg not .05mg

Some euphoria - Sometimes ............... GetinLow

Chipper
07-11-2010, 01:15 AM
^^^ What he said..... But , they are most likely ... .02mg not .05mg

Some euphoria - Sometimes ............... GetinLow

I think you mean 0.20 & 0.50 mg as the standard therapeutic dose is 0.20 mg.

kill
07-11-2010, 03:19 AM
i thought temgesic came in IV solution only? i dunno i never looked into it really cuz noone ever gets it anymore since hte DATA act...

i wish i could get my hands on some temgesic IV solution ;)

OpiateQueen
07-11-2010, 03:58 AM
there is no naltrexone/naloxone in temgesic, but thats not what puts you into precip wds anyway, its the bupe itself - so I'd be very careful... as you say, you'd have to have pretty much no tolerance at all/be clean/or in mad wds.. and yeah I've only ever seen temgesic as an IV solution...
For someone that is opiate naive they seem to get a fuzzy high from bupe (subutex or suboxone). But if you're at all used to stronger shit then i would just keep it for when you're in wd's...

kill - why would you be so keen for IV temgesic? Just cos you can bang it or what? I mean it is the same drug as your subs.. you could shoot them up if you wanted to, although its obviously not recommended.. everyone who has ever talked about shooting them up on here has never felt any ill effects from the naloxone... or snort them so that the naloxone is not even an issue. If it's just so you can have bupe totally safe(as in preparation) to bang then fair enough..

We have had subutex here as a treatment option for much longer than you guys in the US(15 years?) - we've only had suboxone for the same time as you guys. Before suboxone came along everyone was on subutex and we were allowed to get take aways (it was dosed at chemist like methadone, same as subox here) Anyway it had no street value, most people who weren't taking it seriously just chucked/spat them out so they could use DOC later. If used in any other way than IV they're exactly the same as suboxone, and like i said - even IV everyone claims they're exactly the same, only subox is easier to mix up.. People were scared of the subutex cos it put heaps of people it precip wds before we all knew better- i think alot of you guys in the US have some false view that they must be better cos you didn't have the period like we did where everyone had them, and now they're harder to obtain than the subox. so it seems like they MUST be better.. The naloxone is just a huge marketing scheme by the drug companies, and allowed people to get sub take aways again cos the drs felt protected against the patients IVing it (wrong - most drs know this, they just don't care cos their arse is covered)... Don't be fooled by subutex/temgesic thinking its some magical different drug.

GetinLow
07-11-2010, 04:39 AM
Buprenex is the IV solution ... Temgesic are the Tablets =1/5 of a mg. Its easy nuff to GOOGLE:rolleyes:

................. Getinlow

Woody Bear
07-11-2010, 05:28 AM
Buprenorphine will only cause precipitated withdrawal if you are opioid dependent. So if you've been taking opioids every day for a while, and you get withdrawal symptoms already when your dose runs out, then taking buprenorphine before your withdrawal symptoms have started, will cause your withdrawal symptoms to immediately come on.

But if you're not opioid dependent, then chipping with buprenorphine won't cause withdrawal symptoms. However because the half-life is so long, it will stay in your body for ages, and this will make it much more likely for you to become dependent, than if you were to chip using another short-half opioid like oxycodeone, morphine or heroin.

So either way, buprenorphine is not a good drug to get high on if you are a chipper, or to take if you are already dependent on other opioids.

Buckshot
07-11-2010, 10:33 AM
I said 0.5mg pills but that was an error.
I ment 0.2mg pills


I thought they put naltrexone in suboxone so people dont abuse the bupe?
If bupe causes WD's why even put the naltrexone in the suboxone?

that part doesnt make sense

candyman20
07-11-2010, 10:43 AM
they put the naloxone in it so u cant shoot it up

dharma bum
07-11-2010, 10:55 AM
I said 0.5mg pills but that was an error.
I ment 0.2mg pills


I thought they put naltrexone in suboxone so people dont abuse the bupe?
If bupe causes WD's why even put the naltrexone in the suboxone?

that part doesnt make sense

I think, like others on here, that the naloxone was added to convince the FDA (DEA?) that they were unabusable which allowed them their schedule 3 status.

If you have no habit you should feel pretty good on the temgesic.

Edit: Sorry Candyman you are wrong. Tell that to the many people that DO shoot the suboxone. It's such a low dose (2 MG.'s per pill) it is inactive. We like to stop misinformation on here. Misinformation provided by our friendly doctors. That's why I come here to find the real dealio....

NJPhile
07-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Temgesic might prove to be recreational if your opie habit is slim to none. Otherwise, you're risking wasting your money and possible precipitated withdrawl if you don't wait long enough.

kill
07-11-2010, 01:22 PM
OQ, because I unlike other people realize that if you do IV right there's nothing wrong with it..and it's not detrimental to your health unless your a scumbag and arn't sterile..


i still have that IV urge all the time...i've basically stopped shooting everything except if i get dillies which is once every month or two...and thats just cuz it's such a fucking waste not to IV dillies...and you can't say it's not...lol

other than that i'll be honest..when i used to IV my SUBOXONE(not subutex but same thing happened when i IV'd subutex feeling wise, it's just very very bad to IV the generic subutex so don't ever do it, seriously people) i'd get the bupe glow feeling really really hardcore...way harder than if i'd sublingual or plug it..it would almost feel like the whole hour and a half you normally wait for bupe to hit you when you take it a normal ROA...that hour and a half feels like it's compressed into 5-10 minutes...so instead of a long slow gradual buildup of bupe glow niceness...it's like a 5-10 minute type rush/buildup to the full effects...

thats the only way i can describe it...if i could get buprenex IV instead of subutex or suboxone..i definitely wouldn't want to go that route...i'm not a fan of poking needles in myself every day or even every couple days..and i don't ever want to go back to that...but like i said...

I personally think it would be fun to get my hands on some of the bupe IV solution just to bang once in a while for something different...hope you didn't take it the wrong way...


i think alot of you guys in the US have some false view that they must be better cos you didn't have the period like we did where everyone had them, and now they're harder to obtain than the subox. so it seems like they MUST be better.. The naloxone is just a huge marketing scheme by the drug companies, and allowed people to get sub take aways again cos the drs felt protected against the patients IVing it (wrong - most drs know this, they just don't care cos their arse is covered)... Don't be fooled by subutex/temgesic thinking its some magical different drug.

i think your on to something OQ i really do...like i posted in a previous post...what if the two camps here on opiophile (one that says they get high off bupe, the other that says they don't and don't know wtf everyone's talking about) are maybe one in the same...they are just taking radically different viewpoints on what they consider a high feeling is...like if the bupe isn't giving them the same feeling as their DOC they say bupe sucks and doesn't do shit...but the other side are the people like me who really don't want to get high off the bupe and just want to be stable..but found that the bupe definitely gives some type of effects...and because it changes the way i feel i consider that to be type of high because it makes me happy to feel that way...so i say i get "high" but always with the warning that it's not a true high...


but anyway the reason i quoted that is cuz i really believe what you said about the marketing scheme...the only reason they put the naloxone in was so they could patent it as a new drug and reap the profits for fucking years....it's so fucking sad if you ask me because before the generic subutex came out i was spending close to $500 a fucking month for my suboxone scripts...it's fucking ridiculous...like they say drug dealers and shit are bad but i mean for that amount of money i could go buy pills illegally for the whole month and i'd actually get fucking high...it's literally like legal drug dealing if you ask me...but it's really skanky that the government allowed them to pull that whole suboxone marketing myth...that the naloxone is such a big role that it's required to be mixed with bupe to make it suitable for junky maintenance...thats just plain bullshit...

i will say though from personal experience there is a difference between taking suboxone and subutex....when i got switched to the generic subutex and the people i help every now and then by throwing them a pill would tell me straight off the bat that the subutex gave them WAYYYY MORE of a high than the suboxone..i've often thought that even tho they say the naloxone doesn't absorb in significant quantities to cause any effect....i really think that a little bit DOES get into your system and it DOES counteract atleast a little tiny bit of the euphoric effects that bupe produces..

when your on high doses it's a lot harder to tell...but everyone i've given them to that has a low ass tolerance says the straight bupe(subutex) gets them WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY "higher" than if they took the same dose of suboxone....weird shit eh? i dunno what to make of it other than i really think a little of the naloxone gets into your system and does cause a slight effect...i mean it fucking HAS to be causing something....i know when i used to shoot my suboxone back back back in the day...you could literally feel the naloxone blocking the bupes effects for about 10-15 minutes...sometimes i'd even see my pupils dilate for 5 minutes and then go back to pinpoints once i thought the naloxone should have been done with it's effects...weird shit right?

TrackStar
07-11-2010, 01:55 PM
Re: Temgesic

they do NOT contain naloxone. but if you have a habit beware....bupe can cause precipitated withdrawal on its own


Really? Bupe causes precipitated withdrawals? I always thought it was the naloxone, thats what my Dr. told me lol.

slick
07-11-2010, 07:13 PM
I think, like others on here, that the naloxone was added to convince the FDA (DEA?) that they were unabusable which allowed them their schedule 3 status.

If you have no habit you should feel pretty good on the temgesic.

Edit: Sorry Candyman you are wrong. Tell that to the many people that DO shoot the suboxone. It's such a low dose (2 MG.'s per pill) it is inactive. We like to stop misinformation on here. Misinformation provided by our friendly doctors. That's why I come here to find the real dealio....
Alright that's enough of this. You are telling him he (candyman) is wrong when you haven't tried it yourself? Is that correct?

Well swim has banged subutex on many occasions for over a year, and swim knows many other people who use subutex that way as well as a DOC. And I can say, with 100% certainty, that there is a difference, a big difference. And that is a lot of first hand experience talking. Not 3rd hand experience, like a lot of people on here offer when it comes to banging subs. The difference is you don't get high. It gives you a weird orange taste in your mouth, and then a weird feeling (not necissarily bad, but weird), but it is NOTHING similar to subutex.

I hope that clears something up. There seems to be a lot of people on here passing on 3rd hand information when it comes to banging subs and a lot of it is not true.

Paregoric Kid
07-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Buprenex also comes in spray, liquid, and sublingual tablet. Everyone thinks its IV only for some reason.

jimmyfingers
07-11-2010, 08:30 PM
Kill,
I have tried the amps if Bupe, and the difference is very small from subutex when IV'd

josh667
07-12-2010, 01:39 AM
Really? Bupe causes precipitated withdrawals? I always thought it was the naloxone, thats what my Dr. told me lol.

yes sir, the naloxone is only put in there to discourage I.V. use, and is not orally active. The Bupe itself causes precipitated withdrawal because of it is a mixed agonist/antagonist. I cant fathom that a Dr wouldnt know this because I understand that Suboxone/Subutex perscribers have to take a special course..........anyone know if thats true or not?

OpiateQueen
07-12-2010, 05:11 PM
Buprenex is the IV solution ... Temgesic are the Tablets =1/5 of a mg. Its easy nuff to GOOGLE:rolleyes:

................. Getinlow
maybe YOU should google also. Temgesic definitely comes as an injectable multiuse ampoule. We use it all the time in Vet, particularly cats. I haven't googled it so it may also come in tabs but i have never seen it.

TRACKSTAR - your Dr is either an idiot and doesn't know shit about it - or is just saying that to try and scare you away from abusing it.
SLICK - like i said before - we had subutex here for way longer than suboxone - heaps of ppl abused it, ie.injected it (if they weren't using DOC), or just chucked it, it had no street value and certainly sent everyone into precip wds if they had a habit or wahtever. Years later we got suboxone and they stopped giving anyone take aways for subutex, but you could voluntarily change to suboxone and get that as take aways. At first people were skeptical cos of the naloxone. But now almost everyone gets the suboxone cos they have realised that there seems to be no difference in the shooting of either of them. So I'm going on first hand exp (although minimal with suboxone) and the exp of about 10 other ppl i kknow who shot their subutex, then voluntarily swapped to suboxone and now shoot that. They feel it is the same. But you know, everyones different... I personally feel the naloxone does fuck all, and if it does then only for a few seconds/minute, and ofcourse only if IV.

Import
07-12-2010, 05:53 PM
Slick-Actualy a lot of people with first hand experience also say that there is no difference. This is IRL, I'm not sure what the general consensus here is.

OP- 0.2 mg shouldn't cause precipitated wd even if you are dependant (actualy, this is just my experience. I'd hate to see someone follow my advice and end up in PWD). I'm currently on 105 mg of methadone, and it takes 3-4 mg to put me in withdrawal (learning this was the most painful thing I've ever experienced:rolleyes:)Less than that doesn't get me high though, just no effect. However, when I had no tolerance bupe would get me rocked.

Josh667-Yes, they are required to take a special course. However, I believe that it's highly likely that this course tells them that the naloxone is what causes the withdrawal since this is the info that the prescribing info puts forth.

Think about this-they say that since the naloxone isn't orally active, that this is why it doesn't affect the individual if taken as prescribed. This is misleading, since suboxone isn't taken oraly, but sublingualy. Since sublingual dosing avoids first pass metabolism, the naloxone actualy IS active when taken as prescribed. What this means is that the naloxone doesn't do jack shit, EVEN IF INJECTED (if it did, it would also cause withdrawals when taken as prescribed since sublingual dosing makes the nalox about as available as injection since it avoids first pass metabolism.) Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity than naloxone, making the nalox null and void. The naloxone is just a gimmick to make the pills look less abusable.

kill
07-12-2010, 06:37 PM
SNIP

Think about this-they say that since the naloxone isn't orally active, that this is why it doesn't affect the individual if taken as prescribed. This is misleading, since suboxone isn't taken oraly, but sublingualy. Since sublingual dosing avoids first pass metabolism, the naloxone actualy IS active when taken as prescribed. What this means is that the naloxone doesn't do jack shit, EVEN IF INJECTED (if it did, it would also cause withdrawals when taken as prescribed since sublingual dosing makes the nalox about as available as injection since it avoids first pass metabolism.) Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity than naloxone, making the nalox null and void. The naloxone is just a gimmick to make the pills look less abusable.


yes it is a marketing gimmick..but there's been a lot of reports..and even studies done that report that when you take SUBOXONE sublingually a small amount of naloxone does get into your body...if a person is hypersensitive to naloxone they could have a bad reaction..it says so in the little info pamphlet you get with your script(if you ask for it).

i've said this many times...when you take suboxone sublingually versus when you take subutex sublingually i think that that slight bit of naloxone that gets into your body DOES decrease the euphoric effects that bupe produces...i feel this is true from first hand experience..and i know a shitload of people on here that say this could be true cuz they notice it themselves that the subutex gives a way more pronounced effect than suboxone does when taken normally.

GetinLow
07-12-2010, 07:36 PM
maybe YOU should google also. Temgesic definitely comes as an injectable multiuse ampoule. We use it all the time in Vet, particularly cats. I haven't googled it so it may also come in tabs but i have never seen it.

TRACKSTAR - your Dr is either an idiot and doesn't know shit about it - or is just saying that to try and scare you away from abusing it.
SLICK - like i said before - we had subutex here for way longer than suboxone - heaps of ppl abused it, ie.injected it (if they weren't using DOC), or just chucked it, it had no street value and certainly sent everyone into precip wds if they had a habit or wahtever. Years later we got suboxone and they stopped giving anyone take aways for subutex, but you could voluntarily change to suboxone and get that as take aways. At first people were skeptical cos of the naloxone. But now almost everyone gets the suboxone cos they have realised that there seems to be no difference in the shooting of either of them. So I'm going on first hand exp (although minimal with suboxone) and the exp of about 10 other ppl i kknow who shot their subutex, then voluntarily swapped to suboxone and now shoot that. They feel it is the same. But you know, everyones different... I personally feel the naloxone does fuck all, and if it does then only for a few seconds/minute, and ofcourse only if IV.

Yea, I think I will keep my mouth shut... cause it looks like there are so many Preparations of Bup in many different countries . My Bad .......... GetinLow

slick
07-12-2010, 07:39 PM
SLICK - like i said before - we had subutex here for way longer than suboxone - heaps of ppl abused it, ie.injected it (if they weren't using DOC), or just chucked it, it had no street value and certainly sent everyone into precip wds if they had a habit or wahtever. Years later we got suboxone and they stopped giving anyone take aways for subutex, but you could voluntarily change to suboxone and get that as take aways. At first people were skeptical cos of the naloxone. But now almost everyone gets the suboxone cos they have realised that there seems to be no difference in the shooting of either of them. So I'm going on first hand exp (although minimal with suboxone) and the exp of about 10 other ppl i kknow who shot their subutex, then voluntarily swapped to suboxone and now shoot that. They feel it is the same. But you know, everyones different... I personally feel the naloxone does fuck all, and if it does then only for a few seconds/minute, and ofcourse only if IV.
Well it is true that it can be different for everyone. I tried doing just 2mg like that and I have to say that it worked out much better. But a 4mg or 8mg... no way. There is a reason that one goes for $20-$30 (sometimes even $35) and the other will go for $10-$15 (at the very most). The margin of difference in the price says the majority agrees that there IS a difference.

jimmyfingers
07-12-2010, 09:03 PM
Well it is true that it can be different for everyone. I tried doing just 2mg like that and I have to say that it worked out much better. But a 4mg or 8mg... no way. There is a reason that one goes for $20-$30 (sometimes even $35) and the other will go for $10-$15 (at the very most). The margin of difference in the price says the majority agrees that there IS a difference.


Hey Slick,

I was on Subutex for a long time and decided to take a suboxone one day that I had stockpiled from my first doctor. It did feel slightly different and better than the Subutex. This difference was so small though that it could have just been a mental thing.

What I am getting at is their is not much of a difference if any. If I decided to get back on bupe tomm and the doctor told me that he would write me suboxone and I would only have to see him once every 3 months or subutex and see him every month, I would pick suboxone.

Import
07-13-2010, 05:48 AM
Kill- Yeah, it wouldn't suprise me if some people had some side effects from the sublingual naloxone. I guess what I was getting at is just that the naloxone won't cause precipitated wd in it's current formulation in suboxone.

Most of my friends who IV that stuff say that they can't tell the difference, but I'm getting the impression from reading here that this may be far from universal.

OpiateQueen
07-13-2010, 04:53 PM
Well it is true that it can be different for everyone. I tried doing just 2mg like that and I have to say that it worked out much better. But a 4mg or 8mg... no way. There is a reason that one goes for $20-$30 (sometimes even $35) and the other will go for $10-$15 (at the very most). The margin of difference in the price says the majority agrees that there IS a difference.
i dunno i reckon it might be just cos of the fear and misinformation about the naloxone that causes the price difference. You only have to read on here for 5 minutes to see how much misinfo there is about bupe in general - let alone the whole drug/bupe buying community. If i didn't know anything about bupe and someone offered me one with naloxone and one without then i think i would def pay more for the one without nalox, just to be on the safe side...

I also think the difference could be mental. Like the methadone thing. The first chemist i went to had the brown syruppy meethadone. One day they told us they were gonna change to the red water based one. After they did there was uproar with people saying it wasn't holding them as long etc etc.. petitions, blah blah. Then the next chemist i was dosing at they had the red done, but for some reason changed to the brown done - anyway it was exactly the same thing! Everyone was incensed that there was a change and was absolutey sure that the brown done was not holding them for nearly as long etc etc. I think the grass is always greener - esp when one is marketed to and prescribed to that effect if you know what i mean..
I'm sure it prib is different for some though, abit.

Buckshot
07-15-2010, 07:37 PM
So Im on 40mgs of methadone/day and Im expecting some 0.5mg temgesics and day.

Can I use the temgesics to potentiate with my methadone?

OpiateQueen
07-15-2010, 10:45 PM
So Im on 40mgs of methadone/day and Im expecting some 0.5mg temgesics and day.

Can I use the temgesics to potentiate with my methadone?
have you not read any of this thread??? NO. They will put you into precipitated withdrawl... but go ahead and try if you want to.. It will be exacty like bupe, cos that is what temgesic is - bupe (subutex)