Wildnil

[paesan]

Any one have any experience with the Veteranery Fentanyl Analouge Wildnil? Here is a description from streetdrugs.org "Carfentanil (Wildnil®) is an analogue of fentanyl with an analgesic potency 10,000 times that of morphine and is used in veterinary practice to immobilize certain large animals."

I am not far from Mexico, and I have been known to occasionally cross the boarder for uuuhhh tacos...yeah. From previous taco trips I've made I know that obtaining veterinary pharmicuticals such as ketamine is easier than obtaining pharmies for human consumption so I'm almost positive I could get it, I just want to know if it's worth it. It's obviously extremely dangerous, which is why it's generally sold with an opiate antagonist to help reduce animal fatalities.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[anthropod]

All the information I've been able to find about it is that it is "extremely toxic to humans." Now, whether that is simply intended to dissuade use and the inevitable accidents that would result were many to try it, or if it's based on it's actual pharmacology, I don't know. I have heard speculation that the gas used by the Russians to knock out everyone in the Moscow theater siege recently was an aerosol of Carfentanil. I read somewhere a while back that one of its advantages is that its effective dose is a very small fraction of its lethal dose, but still, it's active in such small amounts that it seems extremely dangerous for anyone considering use in humans.

Edit: Got curious and found this (http://www.tjetjenien.org/Moskvagas.htm)
Carfentanil is another fentanyl derivative with very high potency and a high therapeutic index. It is a one of a series of N-4-substituted 1-(2-arylethyl)-4-piperidinyl-N-phenylpropanamide compounds. It is the only opioid approved in the United States for immobilizing large exotic animals; it is not approved for use in human beings.(19) Known as Wildnil, it is used primarily as an incapacitating agent for large animals, such as elephants, rhinoceroses, wolves,(20) seals,(21) and polar bears (22). A typical dose to immobilize seals is 10 µg/kg.(21) It may also be administered intravenously, transmucosally,(23) or orally.(24)
Published reports on the analgesic activity and toxicity of carfentanil date to the 1970s. In a rat study, Van Bever et al(25) compared carfentanil and 3-methyl fentanyl with fentanyl, morphine, and meperidine. They found that carfentanil had the lowest median effective dose (0.00032 mg/kg), with a potency 10,000 times greater than morphine. Furthermore, they found that these 4-substituted fentanyl derivates had an unusually high safety margin (Table). (Italics mine; I don't know how to read this table; anyone that does is welcome to interpret it for us!)

Table. Characteristics of opioids including fentanyl derivatives.(25,34-36)
Opioid Potency (Compared With Morphine) Lipid Solubility*
Therapeutic Indexâ€*
Morphine 1 1.4 70
Meperidine 0.5 40 5
Methadone 4 120 12
Fentanyl 300 800 300
Sufentanil 4500 1800 25,000
Alfentanil 75 150 1100
Remifentanil 220 18 33,000
Carfentanil 10,000 10,600
*Lipid solubility=octanol/water distribution coefficient.
â€*Therapeutic index=median lethal dose (LD50)/lowest median effective dose (ED50).

On October 23, 2002, more than 800 people attending a stage show were taken captive by some 50 Chechen rebels. The rebels repeatedly threatened to blow up the theater if their political demands were not met. The Russian military stormed the theater early in the morning of October 26. An unidentified "gas" was introduced into the theater through the ventilation system approximately 15 minutes before the military offensive (4). Hundreds of hostages were taken to local hospitals suffering from "sleeping gas" poisoning. According to local reports, "doctors spent the first few hours testing various antidotes before they found something that worked."(5) Some of the medical personnel may have assumed that the victims had been exposed to conventional chemical agents, such as the nerve agents sarin or VX. Some of the first victims were treated with atropine, an intervention that proved ineffective (6). The finding of miosis may have added to the initial confusion. Other experts speculated that the gas might have been BZ, an incapacitating agent that produces anticholinergic delirium (7). Western embassy physicians examined some of the hostages and concluded, "the agent they were exposed to appears consistent with an opiate rather than a nerve agent."(1). According to 2 Moscow physicians, "many patients had classic signs of opioid intoxication: pinpoint pupils, unconsciousness, [and] depressed breathing."(8). The opioid hypothesis was supported by reports from Russian physicians that naloxone was successful in reversing the effects of the intoxication (9).
The Russian Health Minister announced 4 days after the event that, "a fentanyl derivative was used to neutralize the terrorists." He went on to state that the gas "cannot by itself be called lethal."(10) Despite this claim, 127 (16%) of the 800 hostages in the theater died, and more than 650 of the survivors required hospitalization.(11) The Russian Health Minister attributed the deaths of the hostages to their poor condition from limited food and water and immobility during 3 days of captivity. By 12 days after the rescue, 67 hostages and 9 rescuers remained hospitalized, 5 in critical condition.(11)
Little information is available about the dose of the chemicals used. One Russian physician stated that toxicology testing to identify the exposure was not performed because "to conduct such tests we have to know approximately what we're looking for, and we didn't know what to look for. Besides, we didn't have the technical means to conduct such tests."(8) Preliminary analyses of blood and urine specimens from 2 survivors who returned to Germany detected traces of halothane, no fentanyl, and no evidence of nerve agents.(12)
Although one of these patients had been on a ventilator, a possible source of halothane contamination, the other patient had not been ventilated. These early analytic findings and the reports from Russian health officials suggest that the toxic gas was some sort of combination agent. News reports suggested that the most likely combination of agents was a highly potent fentanyl derivative used in conjunction with an inhalational anesthetic agent, such as halothane.(8)

-----------------------------------

As fascinating as all this is, getting anywhere near this stuff would obviously be a very bad idea for anyone without proper expertise and training. Don't anyone go dying on us! :(

[paesan]

I bought some carfentanil about 3 weeks after that post. That shit is hard core. I got about 40-50 bumps out of a 10ml bottle, and for 90 bucks that aint bad. If anyone goes to Mexico I suggest checking out veterinary pharmacies and picking some of that shit up. You may have to look around as some of them may not carry itever. The only problem I had with this material is that it's a very short acting opiod (longer then fentanyl but not by much) so Ifound that I had to redose almost every 45minutes to an hour. I never had any problems with it healthwise and I polished that bottle off in a week, so I don't think it's toxic to humans, but I could be wrong.

[anthropod]

Interesting. Do you know if it has good oral bioavailability? Also, is it really necessary to redose every hour or so just to stave off WD's, if one already has developed a tolerance, or could one get by with something more along the lines of every 4-12 hours? Let's say for someone that already has a moderate habit. (I realize it's different for everyone, but maybe the question makes a certain amount of sense?)

[Paregoric Kid]

why take it orally when you can take it sublingually? yes it would be necessary to redose because it is short acting, ie: it does not last long in your system, tolerance doesn't have anything to do with that. regular fentanyl is short acting as well, of course the patch is time released.

[jacky]

p-450 enzyme inhibitors might be somewhat risky to take with fentynal products.

[paesan]

I never tried it sublingually, I just insufflated it and it worked very well. And as PK said yes you have to redose do to the fact that it's so short acting. It had nothing to do with staving off WD's and everything to do with staying high as a fucking kite for as long as I possibly could. That's why the bottle was gone in less than a week. Funny thing is though, I had no WD's at all other than a little bit of the achy brakeys (which means I was kinda stiff and sore for a couple days).

[anthropod]

I had just assumed it's a liquid rather than a powder, so if it's in liquid form, would it be best diluted? Or would a drop from an eyedropper do it as is?

Fascinating stuff.

[paesan]

Honestly I don't know. I would probably dilute it if I were to keep it in liquid form. A drop from anything may be too much, it's hard to regulate dosing when kept in liquid form unless you're Iv'ing or just using a rig to regulate the dosing. I dried it out like K so I could do bumps, it's easier for me to control dosing that way plus I love putting shit up my nose.

[alowishus]

I dried it out like K so I could do bumps, it's easier for me to control dosing that way plus I love putting shit up my nose.

How much about, per time? sound like some very interesting stuff. I stopped using the fentanyl pops because they were soooo short acting. What a waste! Great for about 15-20 min. I understand they're just for breakthrough, but....:D

[paesan]

I'd say the buzz wore almost completely off after about an hour. But I found if I redosed sooner than maybe 1/2 an hour I'd get very nauseous (puked a few times) and I'd get the crazy cross eyed vision where I couldn't focus on anything and I'd have trouble standing/walking straight (but fentanyl does that wobbly shit to my legs too). But if I spaced it out to like 45min-1hour then that didn't happen, or least it was no where near as bad.

[anthropod]

Wow, if I've done the math right, one dose insufflated is about two-thirds of a milligram.

I'd hate it to get caught on a nose hair, LOL.

[SomniGod]

how about a m15/1bump mixer up the schnauze? May last longer.....also effects of potentiators? Tagamet ....pyrgetime (or whatever the chem in Grapefruit juice is)....or how bout a Wild-yayo nose cocktail? Hmmm........

~S~
:rolleyes:

[alowishus]

Are there any ill effects from taking to much tagamet?

Like 400-600mg a day for a week or two?

[paesan]

how about a m15/1bump mixer up the schnauze? May last longer.....also effects of potentiators? Tagamet ....pyrgetime (or whatever the chem in Grapefruit juice is)....or how bout a Wild-yayo nose cocktail? Hmmm........

~S~
:rolleyes:

Yeah it may work but those damn m15's clog my shit up fo days. Potentiators, I'd be a little worried about. I’m telling ya this shit is scary strong. I'll tell ya what though, I’m definitely digging the Wild-Yay cocktail, talk about a kick to the fucking head.

What'dya say cuzin, trip to Mexico? I could go for some of them tacos in the 10ml jars!!!

[SomniGod]

Once again it's on... u know I'm down to make a run for the border....I mean go to Taco Bell...

:D

~S~