Any Jamband fans here?

[scikid]

Any other jamband fans here? If so who's your fav? Tour/Toured at all? I've toured with Cheese a bit but Sound Tribe Sector 9 will always be my number one. Shit maybe I've even met some of you on lot. Too opiated to keep typing this heh...

[candyshop]

jambands are a pox,a plague,a wart on the ass of music,a sin,a travesty,vile and an exercise in musical masturbation meant to amuse the the participant rather than the listener, NO AMOUNT of drug use can possibly excuse such a thing-when we finally were unburdened of the greatful dead ,i had high hopes that the smelly bands of trustifarians that left a slime trail across the stadiums ,fields and meadows of the nation would dissapear and the genre would fade into obscurity- no such luck -like a mutating virus, newer and equally heinous forms of this horrid crap sprung up and venues continue to bloom with tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things
and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs-a thouroughly icky subculture-no offense to anyone meant just my opinion

[kdreimiller]

I used to be a huge dead head. Seeing that I got into them in 92 at 17, I could only see the local shows for the next 3 years, sadly, well maybe for the better, some of the shows were pretty hurting. Though it really openend my eyes to what a party and a lots scene and a concert should be. So I saw them like 20 -30 times. Picked up with Phish, never really got into them, big time anyways, or the scene. My borhter did alot of their tshirt art work so I got lots of free tix that I never used.

Moving to SF I saw tons of music - and I've loved seeing shows. I was big into Kimock, STS9, Cheese, YMSBand a handful of others, (not so much Widespread panic though). So I made sure to catch those when they came to town.

But alas, now I live in Baltimore with no wheels (you need wheels here) so I'm stuck never seeing much music. And it's rare that grea tlive acts come to town.

The best parties are at jmabands - whether you like the music or not, people party at those shows. Especially those fetisvals - Hornings, High Sierra, Teluride.....

So now I just medicate myself with opiates since I have no music ..... boo hoo

[HistoryofMadness]

jambands are a pox,a plague,a wart on the ass of music,a sin,a travesty,vile and an exercise in musical masturbation meant to amuse the the participant rather than the listener, NO AMOUNT of drug use can possibly excuse such a thing-when we finally were unburdened of the greatful dead ,i had high hopes that the smelly bands of trustifarians that left a slime trail across the stadiums ,fields and meadows of the nation would dissapear and the genre would fade into obscurity- no such luck -like a mutating virus, newer and equally heinous forms of this horrid crap sprung up and venues continue to bloom with tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things
and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs-a thouroughly icky subculture-no offense to anyone meant just my opinion
Whoa, I mean I'm no fan, but I reserve this type of emotion music that goes beyond shitty, and emerges on actually doing damage to the future and growth of music, specifically POP 40, CRAP / R&BS, and Punktry (kid rockk etc), and the WORST OF THEM ALL -- anything that happens or anyone that performs is or is in any way associated with American Idol...

But since you are such an obviously enlightened person in the otherworldly realm of music, will you please shed a light for us on what IS good music... ? I mean, that is, if mere mortals such as us can even comprehend your immaculate thoughts... which god or goddess has enlightened you? You know there are more than 10 music deities... this allows all of us to hate each others' music equally, thank god(s).

For example, the god of jamband music is Donadar, god of music and dance. Apparently he's a wandering entertainer, and you're supposed to be nice to all the hippies because you never know when one of them might be him... and there's even a cult! (http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/cults/donandar.htm) Sound familiar???

You hippies are nothing but occultists trying to bring innocent concert-goers into your dark and fiery lair! Evil!

Ok, I'm coming over to your side candyshop!

[zombiewoof23]

Any other jamband fans here? If so who's your fav? Tour/Toured at all? I've toured with Cheese a bit but Sound Tribe Sector 9 will always be my number one. Shit maybe I've even met some of you on lot. Too opiated to keep typing this heh...

Definitely a fan. I stopped traveling as much to shows after New Years 2000 in the everglades. I did catch the first 2 years of Bonnaroo. Seeing Ween at the first one was memorable. The past three years I've only checked out three local concerts, Medeski Martin & Wood, and Widepread Panic twice. Widespread really won't take you in left field and leave you like Phish used to, but they are freaking intense. I knew Phish was my band after my first show in Dayton 1997, the only time they played Psycho Killer. Of course since the Talking Heads are one of my all time favorite bands, it was magical and meant to be. The acid played on my emotions that night pretty well too. Too many good times. I miss those days.

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

Hippie-shit-on-each-other-fest

I like Ween though.

[shaunclo]

jambands are a pox,a plague,a wart on the ass of music,a sin,a travesty,vile and an exercise in musical masturbation meant to amuse the the participant rather than the listener, NO AMOUNT of drug use can possibly excuse such a thing-when we finally were unburdened of the greatful dead ,i had high hopes that the smelly bands of trustifarians that left a slime trail across the stadiums ,fields and meadows of the nation would dissapear and the genre would fade into obscurity- no such luck -like a mutating virus, newer and equally heinous forms of this horrid crap sprung up and venues continue to bloom with tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things
and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs-a thouroughly icky subculture-no offense to anyone meant just my opinion

OMFG!!! I had to looki up to see if I was in the flame forum!!! LOL, I had no idea you had such a strong opinion about anything CandyShop.

[scikid]

jambands are a pox,a plague,a wart on the ass of music,a sin,a travesty,vile and an exercise in musical masturbation meant to amuse the the participant rather than the listener, NO AMOUNT of drug use can possibly excuse such a thing-when we finally were unburdened of the greatful dead ,i had high hopes that the smelly bands of trustifarians that left a slime trail across the stadiums ,fields and meadows of the nation would dissapear and the genre would fade into obscurity- no such luck -like a mutating virus, newer and equally heinous forms of this horrid crap sprung up and venues continue to bloom with tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things
and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs-a thouroughly icky subculture-no offense to anyone meant just my opinion


Sheesh... you sound like my 75 year old asshole grandfather


Anyways, sterotypes aside "jambands" aren't ever going to go away. The music is so adaptive that I bet many would be shocked at how different sounding some of the bands playing today sound then the grateful dead. I mean hell if you consider how different the frist big 3 jambands sound (GD,Phish,WSP) you'd be amazed.

[kdreimiller]

shit - STS9 doesnt even sound like "jamband music", more organic techno i guess.....but they are labelled a jamb band because the music is constantly evolving and no show is ever the same.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

No flamming...please, we are a community, and we share alot in common, but music is subjective to the individual.
I am a long time Jam band fan and have a deep respect for the MAGIC that improvisational music creates. Improvisational music embodies the freedom of the true spirit of music. My favorite jam band is Phish, i think all the jamband scene pretty much agrees that Phish are one of the greatest jam bands. Unfortunately they have disbanded, for the time being but Trey Anastasio rocks on along with almost all the other members.
Either way Phish rocks and they have made so many great achievements i could go on and on. I suppose one of the biggest achievements would be getting Jam bands them selves more notice. Even if you dont like Phish you have to respect a band that never sold out to MTV and Corporate bullshit and just always did what they wanted to do...Making music that they and there phans enjoyed. THey played almost constantly for 20 years and had massive gatherings with 80,000 people, playing near constantly for three days. They have more music for there fans then probably any band, seeing that they have like 30+records you can buy most of which are 2-3 discs. Then you have to consider almost all of there Live shows are free for download and they have a 1000+ (2-3disc) concerts (again phree to the public). So i really do think they have more music to offer than almost any band with the exception of the Dead and a few others. Im gonna stop now.
Since Phish stopped touring though i have been listening to Coheed and Cambria. Although they do jam...i wouldnt consider them a "jam band" per se, even though the name jam band is just a title. Coheed is a conceptual progressive rock band. All 3 of there albums create a story. Every song forms part of the story and its a really cool story. They have to more albums coming the next one will end the story and then they will put out the Prequel last about the origins of Coheed and Cambria. We have the middle three albums out already. They also have Graphic Novels to go with the albums to Illustrate the story. I mention all this cause the simmilarity is in that Phish also had a concept album and many of the songs revolved around this and coheed is a Concept band. Phish is also great to listen to when your Opiated....Alright im really gonna stop now. Sorry to go on and on but Yes i like Jam bands. Peace

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

Oh yeah its cool to see so many Phish fans/jam band fans.

[zombiewoof23]

Sheesh... you sound like my 75 year old asshole grandfather


Anyways, sterotypes aside "jambands" aren't ever going to go away. The music is so adaptive that I bet many would be shocked at how different sounding some of the bands playing today sound then the grateful dead. I mean hell if you consider how different the frist big 3 jambands sound (GD,Phish,WSP) you'd be amazed.

Its not really a debate that you can win or effectively argue. People are pretty passionate about their opinions when it comes to music, culture, society, religion, politics etc. What was that old punk song "Bring me the head of Jerry Garcia?"

If I get it, I can dig it. That's pretty much my philosophy on music. I would venture to guess that the jamband scene is not very popular for most of the people in this forum. There are several oldskool heads here though if you pay attention. And yeah, Ween rules!

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

Since Phish stopped touring though i have been listening to Coheed and Cambria. Although they do jam...i wouldnt consider them a "jam band" per se, even though the name jam band is just a title.

lol

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

No offense to anyone and i really mean it...but come on. I like everyone hear but it was rude. I cant just tear someone apart and say mean things and then go on to say No OFfense...thats riddiculous. Most of my best friends are the and i qoute " tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs". No offense at the end of those kinda words just doesnt cut it. Almost all of these "dogs" are the nicest most generous and kind people you could ever meet...someone who would actually share there opiates and other things without even thinking twice about themselves. I have always respected Candyshops opinions and i still do, because opinions on music are personal...im just gonna ignore this and try not to think of it again. We should all have respect for all walks of life and never stereotype large groups of individuals, lets find the good in each other and learn from what we all have to share...thats what this community is for. I am not angry or upset or anything i just want to defend the people i care about because the above statement is false. Candyshop please dont think i mean you disrespect i value your opinions i just diverge on the above point. But this is a really stupid degredation of a conversation and i dont want to argue so peace out, music is subjective to the individual... lets have a good talk about jam bands. PS sorry for the Triple post it wont happen again. i agree ween rules peace have an opiated day.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

Anyone dig Oysterhead or Les Claypools flying frog brigade...Keller Williams...Mike GOrdon...I especially dig Mike Gordon. Mike is such a creative musician its phenomenal. I am not the biggest fan of jambands but i have a great respect for them. COheed and Cambria is a great band, they are Prog Rock but i think anyone that likes Jam bands would dig Coheed, they kinda play every style. I had to edit this in to avoid a triple post again i just thought about your name SCIkid and i remembered that at a Festival called Summit in New YOrk a few years ago me and my wife went to see a bunch of bands and we got to see SCI front row, i was really enlightened at the time if you know what i mean and the music was so loud it was like the guitar was pumping through my veins...(was it just the guitar, oh wait there were a few other things pumping through there too) it was a reall awesome experience.

[candyshop]

i also happen to love ween and some of my best ummm...parents are total hippies (i was concieved in a vw van ...ewwww) was just ranting -i hate the music -hate the clothing and well,the food -but i dearly love many of the participants -it was late,i was hi and i was ranting -hi mom and dad!

[HistoryofMadness]

No offense to scikid, but I bust out reading candyshop's reply. That was one crystal-clear and incredibly passionate response.

And in her defense, she did end it with, "no offense" intended" & it was just her opinion....

Still, it was hysterical. And I needed the laugh. Thanks.
True, agreed, and she didn't attack anybody... to me there's some irony in the hippies attacking her because she didn't like the music... its not like she said "you damn dirty hippies need to crawl out of the mud, go take a bath, get a job, and cut yer hair... and then stop faking all this love BS because its all a fad/show anyway"... did she?

No offense to anyone and i really mean it...but come on. I like everyone hear but it was rude. I cant just tear someone apart and say mean things and then go on to say No OFfense...thats riddiculous. Most of my best friends are the and i qoute " tie-dyed,hacky-sackin,unshaven,lentil slurping,patchouli smellin,dirty haired beasties-poor misguided things and thier ,poor,poor ,humiliated bandana wearing dogs". No offense at the end of those kinda words just doesnt cut it. Almost all of these "dogs" are the nicest most generous and kind people you could ever meet...someone who would actually share there opiates and other things without even thinking twice about themselves. I have always respected Candyshops opinions and i still do, because opinions on music are personal...im just gonna ignore this and try not to think of it again. We should all have respect for all walks of life and never stereotype large groups of individuals, lets find the good in each other and learn from what we all have to share...thats what this community is for. I am not angry or upset or anything i just want to defend the people i care about because the above statement is false. Candyshop please dont think i mean you disrespect i value your opinions i just diverge on the above point. But this is a really stupid degredation of a conversation and i dont want to argue so peace out, music is subjective to the individual... lets have a good talk about jam bands. PS sorry for the Triple post it wont happen again. i agree ween rules peace have an opiated day.
This is just a passive-agressive back-handed compliment anyway... listen man, its ok with me if you think my music sucks, and its ok for me to think your music sucks. You could have just let her her say her piece and move on...

Its ok for everyone to like or dislike whoever they please. Your hippie friends are just like everybody else. In fact some of the nicest people I know aren't hippies, and some of the biggest assholes I know are.

I hate hippies. (don't get your beads in a wad, those are just some lyrics from a song I like)...

[candyshop]

and i was not referring to the people as dogs i was talking about actual bandana wearing frisbee catching dogs like golden retrievers and such

[zombiewoof23]

I don't really consider myself a hippie, but I do like the scene, the drugs and the music. Anyways, this all reminds me of that Zappa song "Who Needs the Peace Core." Pretty amusing, Zappa wasn't a fan of the hippies. Check it out.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

i also happen to love ween and some of my best ummm...parents are total hippies (i was concieved in a vw van ...ewwww) was just ranting -i hate the music -hate the clothing and well,the food -but i dearly love many of the participants -it was late,i was hi and i was ranting -hi mom and dad!
i hear you about the late night blabbing/ranting. theres so many times i am on here late at night and totally blasted and the next day im like..huh..what did i write. and as i was saying i love jam bands but my favorite band isnt even a jam band as much as i love phish...as a musician i truly love all music styles. I have to listen to everything, classic rock, punk, ska, hardcore, jamband, heavy metal, classical, surfer shit, emo, progressive, damn near everything...its all good. Back to jambands i think the coolest part about it is the scene...its great pretty much anyone can go to a festival and have a good time. Even if someone doesnt like the music its a hell of a party.
Any good fests coming up if so post em. Since ive settled down quite abit there hard to get too but theres always an exception when the right bands are coming together. peace

[alowishus]

Candyshop don't do that!!!!
You have nothing to have to feel sorry about, all the bleeding heart thin skinned hippies CAN DIE!!!!!:p

That was one of the best posts I've ever read and I love the dead, hate Pee-ish though. Right on about the bare foot trust fund babies, I've said it before....crunchy granola patchouli wearing dirt munching tree hugging druids.


On another plane of thought:
Then we can "take the skin heads bowling", a great song and a great band, too bad it was used by Mike Moore in one of his "movies"

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

something i thought of...at the phish shows we used to call certain people trustafarians. you know rich kids that want to act like there rastafarian or something its pretty amusing. i thought of this because of the last post there that said something about trust fund babies...i dont know its kinda funny. trustafarians lol. peace

[HistoryofMadness]

I don't really consider myself a hippie, but I do like the scene, the drugs and the music. Anyways, this all reminds me of that Zappa song "Who Needs the Peace Core." Pretty amusing, Zappa wasn't a fan of the hippies. Check it out.

well, i do love bluegrass (which has been borrowed by some jam bands but is by no means a subgenre of jam bands)... and I'd be lying if I said I didn't like some of Jerry and Friends' bluegrass on the git-fiddle... to me bluegrass is the angry rebelious punk of country music, ken?

[alowishus]

something i thought of...at the phish shows we used to call certain people trustafarians. you know rich kids that want to act like there rastafarian or something its pretty amusing. i thought of this because of the last post there that said something about trust fund babies...i dont know its kinda funny. trustafarians lol. peace

Don't give me the credit.........

i had high hopes that the smelly bands of trustifarians that left a slime trail across the stadiums ,fields and meadows of the nation would dissapear and the genre would fade into obscurity- no such luck



Another reason why it's a candidate for post of the year.

[zombiewoof23]

This whole thread has been interesting to see unfold. The punks, skinheads, and several other groups have always been natural antagonists to the hippies. It's funny to hear the old hippie stereotype is still around. I have seen many of your peace loving hippies of today get rather violent at times when it is needed. I also want to know what happened to the punk movement. Is it still around? Why haven't some of these other groups achieved the same level of organization that today's so called hippies have? It's interesting to see many of these other groups come and go with their philosophies and the kids still keep rocking and rolling decade after decade. Musical taste is so subjective it is not a valid argument. I have always found this standoff amusing. Hey I'm just happy the punks and skinheads smell so good.

[scikid]

Yeah I just want to emphasize that I'm not offended by anyones post here, I respect all opinions. I have a pretty wide range of music but I like Jambands,Drum and Bass and Hip-Hop the best. It really is funny to read that so many people still think "tour kids" wear tye-dye and bandanas and whatnot. I don't own a single tye died shirt or a bandana. I wear a straight billed new era cap, have short hair, prefer baggy pants to patchwork, hoodies etc. Also you'd be surprised at the number of gutterpunks on tour/@ rainbow gatherings (I avoid gatherings personally) Also opiates and benzos/booze (with some yay if I'm lucky) over LSD for me anyday.

There's a difference between "kids" and hippies that you can't understand unless you a part of the scene. Hell even my punk/blahblahblahcore friends don't excatly get it and I'm with them all the time.

Ohh yeah, I'm not a hippie, hippies are dead. The only people who dress like hippies are the ones that I used to pretend to sell drugs to. :D

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

i knew of the word trustafarian from the Phish Encyclopedia its in the dictionary part. along with Lot Rats Lol

[zombiewoof23]

its in the dead head dictionary too.

[HistoryofMadness]

It's funny to hear the old hippie stereotype is still around. ..... Why haven't some of these other groups achieved the same level of organization that today's so called hippies have? It's interesting to see many of these other groups come and go with their philosophies and the kids still keep rocking and rolling decade after decade.

Organized? Hippies? Shiiiit. Ahh, hell, I was just yanking on your hippy chains. You know, for fun. Besides, all the real hippies have either sold out or become insignificant.

Most of the clutter of the '60s was youthful rebellion. The truly enlightened lost control of the movement as quickly as it began. It was to be a political / social revolution, but it failed miserably.

Nowadays, nobody even pretends its about change anymore. The kids just play out characters in costumes for a show or a tour. If hippies knew 50 years later thier movement would be about fashion, not change, they would have turned in their Communist Manifestos gone back to work.

I am not a skinhead, or a raver, or a punk, or a redneck, or a biker, or a prep, or a frat boy. I am a political activist / operative, and that's why I hate hippies. Specifically I hate them and every other large group of politically-cultureless young people that could get active and make a difference, but don't.

Subcultures do nothing but glorify the past - failed revolutions - and encourage kids to just get fucked up and not care. I'm all for getting high, but goddammit while millions of young non-voters are smoking pounds our country is being overrun with Neo-Conservative WingNuts that only win elections because no one else is fucking trying.

We only hear the same old shit because the youth, where progressive politics comes from, is being immobilized by candy-covered corporate subcultures masquerading as individualism... then the same jackasses have the balls to complain about the government.

Say what you want about the rigid paleo-politics of skinheads and punks, at least they're politically active... you say they're not organized, but whats the point of organizing if you're just going to march around saying meaningless shit like "taboot taboot" all the time. Where are the 'leaders' of these 'organized' groups that encourage people to take thier future by the nutsack and fucking do something for a change?

Oh, and obviously, if you vote, that's great. I'm not talking about individuals here, I'm talking about the political culture of the entire group. Ok, I'm done, and I hope you didn't actually read all of this.

[candyshop]

i vote,i read all of it and my earlier rant could have just as easily targeted any group

[HistoryofMadness]

i vote,i read all of it and my earlier rant could have just as easily targeted any group

that's what i'm saying ... no hard feelings specifically...

i did think the hippie calling candy an asshole was funny...

that and the comment about improvisation being the original intent of the music or some shit...

i think this thread is full of subjective and not objective opinions, and as such, not many minds will be changed...

I just want to see more of us young folks voting, so instead of talking about social security they'll be talking about drug policy... this isn't that far-fetched... just look at the numbers. That said, in 15 years when all the conservative baby boomers are retired with nothing better to do but be assholes, and all the cool baby boomers are dead or in prison, or sitting around nursing their fried brains, we young folks will not only be screwed, but we'll all be working for old motherfuckers...

Ok sorry the politics stop now... at least in this thread

[caesee]

ohh wow this is a very interesting thread to say the least. Well I had the great oppurtiny of following the dead around for close to a year and had one of the best times of my life. Now I did not have a dog, lol..It was not all about money, or drugs, it was abot meeting people and having a good time..the greatest thing about it was people that did not even now you would take care of you if needed and treat you as part of thier family. I have also been to many hudreds of what now are called raves, but when i was going it wasnt commerical it was a bunch of kids enjoying music in the middle on the desert, or forrest or a wharehouse. It was never about the drugs even though the were everywhere it was about the music and good time. Its like the old raver saying PLUR..Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect..i think that speaks allot...I did not have long hair and ware tiedied shirts when I was following the dead, neither did I wear big fuzzy pants and 20 necklaces with a pasafire in my moth when I went to parties..but to each there own..alot of what was said to me is a sterotype of what the "type" of people are that listen to a certain type of music..just my $.001

[zombiewoof23]

Organized? Hippies? Shiiiit. Ahh, hell, I was just yanking on your hippy chains. You know, for fun. Besides, all the real hippies have either sold out or become insignificant.

Most of the clutter of the '60s was youthful rebellion. The truly enlightened lost control of the movement as quickly as it began. It was to be a political / social revolution, but it failed miserably.

Nowadays, nobody even pretends its about change anymore. The kids just play out characters in costumes for a show or a tour. If hippies knew 50 years later thier movement would be about fashion, not change, they would have turned in their Communist Manifestos gone back to work.

I am not a skinhead, or a raver, or a punk, or a redneck, or a biker, or a prep, or a frat boy. I am a political activist / operative, and that's why I hate hippies. Specifically I hate them and every other large group of politically-cultureless young people that could get active and make a difference, but don't.

Subcultures do nothing but glorify the past - failed revolutions - and encourage kids to just get fucked up and not care. I'm all for getting high, but goddammit while millions of young non-voters are smoking pounds our country is being overrun with Neo-Conservative WingNuts that only win elections because no one else is fucking trying.

We only hear the same old shit because the youth, where progressive politics comes from, is being immobilized by candy-covered corporate subcultures masquerading as individualism... then the same jackasses have the balls to complain about the government.

Say what you want about the rigid paleo-politics of skinheads and punks, at least they're politically active... you say they're not organized, but whats the point of organizing if you're just going to march around saying meaningless shit like "taboot taboot" all the time. Where are the 'leaders' of these 'organized' groups that encourage people to take thier future by the nutsack and fucking do something for a change?

Oh, and obviously, if you vote, that's great. I'm not talking about individuals here, I'm talking about the political culture of the entire group. Ok, I'm done, and I hope you didn't actually read all of this.

Excellent rant. I couldnt agree more. I am a voter. Beyond that I am not an activist by any means. I do not claim to be any of the above. I am your average working class guy, trying to make a living for his family. I really don't have time anymore to sit around getting high and doing nothing (with the exception of being on this site).

The organization I was referring to was more the running of illegal substances, the free market in the parking lot, the way the kids weed out the parasites in the group, and so forth. The organizatin has nothing to do with the politics you are referring to. It is more of a money making device. I definitely agree with the costume line. That line applies to almost every culture, or subculture in one way or another. Punks, neo-hippies, goth kids, red necks, skin heads, religions, etc etc. All of it is meaningless, except to the person who is conforming to the subculture they claim to be a part of. The youth of today across the board, definitely shows a lack of responsibilty. I think going to a show for a political reason would take the fun out of it, however they could have propaghanda in the lots designed to encourage these kids to take action and vote at the very least during the normal course of their life.

[HistoryofMadness]

I think going to a show for a political reason would take the fun out of it, however they could have propaghanda in the lots designed to encourage these kids to take action and vote at the very least during the normal course of their life.

Ok, I said no more, but I was stupid to think I wouldn't respond.

Music should be about having fun... But the merchandise, lyrics, are only that group language, which is cool.. but there's no productive message to go along with that very structured identity...

All shirts and songs etc don't have to be political, but some could. 'zines, and cd distribution, and when to throw glowsticks, when to yell shit... cd's with infamous sets, like white album in atlanta new years, etc...

think about the power that communication would have if just a fraction promoted direct political action.. not even a'brand' of politics, just to DO SOMETHING because 'tune in, turn on, and drop out ' didn't work.

we are talking mass movement that would alter the political landscape; that's how it happened in the 60s, but this time it could be evolved, more effective, and who knows, maybe even successful...

[ZodiacKiller]

I, too, have a lot of disdain towards jam-bands, and always disliked the Dead--but I, too, love Ween. Please tell me they aren't classified in the same genre as jam-bands. Their albums are full of structured, hooky songs---not 20-minute all-over-the-place hippy-dippy hoo-haa. Well, maybe the earlier few were a bit out-there, but still weren't 'hippy jam-bandish'. I hate when Ween gets lumped into that bunch. Sorry to any Dead fans, just my opinion. Now go wash your feet.


ZK

[alowishus]

Vote? vote on what, this isn't a poll is it, I didn't see the check buttons at the start of the thread, at least I didn't think I did.

Well I had the great oppurtiny of following the dead around for close to a year and had one of the best times of my life.

Was that after a "touch of grey" came out?

I spent a lot of time w/ 30,000 of my closest friends and the Dead in the 80's, selling "steal your face spag and balls" to fans in the lots. Fuck if I could only remember. BTW; yup VW bus (camper style: NICE) homemade tie dyes, the works, even played in a Dead-ish band, but we did more then just Dead tunes, etc etc. Now do I think I'm a hippie.... hell no!!! Was I a hippie.....hell no again!!!! Those dirty hungry mothers had to pay for my spag and balls, I had a "hippie stick" small childs baseball bat for the ones that would try to steal because they didn't "believe" in the concept of money.

But no one has said anything about the Dead letting ANYONE tape thier shows, try and do that at a U2 or chile peppers show.

Please tell me they aren't classified in the same genre as jam-bands.
Thier not, it the same genre as Falco.

Ween.:rolleyes:

[poonwhalla]

I don't think Ween is a very "jam Rock" band. I think the difference between them and lets say any of those fuckers like widesperm, phish, kellar willams, or what is classified as jam rock is that weeen rocks. If I know ya booze me up and get me high is a studio song and live one dat I gots. Not a big fan of what they call jam roch too many freakin duesch bags and for the most part can't get into your groove.i

[scikid]

i did think the hippie calling candy an asshole was funny...


Whoa Whoa Whoa, I didn't call her an asshole, I just said her rant sounds like something my asshole grandfather would say. I don't think Candyshop is an asshole at all. My grandpa on the other hand.... :rolleyes:

I'm not a hippie either, as I said earlier hippies are dead. They are either burnouts or sellouts, just like the original punks

anyways, this thread is interesting. I gotta get to work (12 hour day... shittt) but I'll post when I get back.

Anyways Ween tends to be associated within the jamband scene because of Phish. They are friends with the band, phish covers some of there songs and Ween has played at festivals. Personally I can't stand Ween's music.

[alowishus]

To tell the truth the term jam band is new to me.
If it's just a band that goes off the scritped sheet music and plays what they feel in their hearts, ya know lets their hearts move their fingers instead of their minds then; led zeppelin, jimi hendrix, bob marley (I'd say all reggae) the who, weezer, the police, guns and roses, the list is long long long, the only bands really that don't are teen pop acts, some punk bands (songs are to short; and don't mistake their inability to play their instruments as jamming) the prerecorded lip syncing bands (you know who you are) AND ANY BAND that does not have enough talent to be able to play their instruments without sheet music or the notes already created and played by someone else.

[candyshop]

honestly, i cannot believe what a ruckus-really although once again i do not like the music,i really was just sorta gettin off on my descriptive powers-i really could have thrown the same shit at any suba-cultcha type grouping
any alignment with a group in order to express how different and individual you are is pretty silly in my opinion- the idea that any sort of counter cultural movement still has any validity is sadly,unlikely-when you can buy rebellion at the mall and the same jocko-homophobes (settle down,am not saying all sports enthusiasts are a-holes) that used to beat up my friends for having blue hair now have blue hair,and tattoos
have become a rite of passage for every sorority girl-gone-wild the trappings and totems of "the underground" are meaningless ,they have been co-opted;bought and sold, yet, that said, i have nothing but
respect for the back to earth folks that really have dropped out and for thefucked up,scabby,rock and roll kids that still really and truly live and die by the guitar-i think there is a great deal of authenticity out there
it is not for me to decide who still carries the torch but i do not think the spirit of rebellion is dead

[alowishus]

honestly, i cannot believe what a ruckus-



hehehe you said ruckus......









:rolleyes: :D :p

[zombiewoof23]

I don't think I would necassarily put Ween in the jam band category either. Their style of music is so diversified, i think they pick up fans from all over the place. They do happen to have the curse of picking up some of these lot kids. And ZK I figured you had to skip that Voodoo Lady from Live in Chicago. That one is pretty intense and drawn out.

Anyways this has been a fun thread. Starting from one kid looking for others he may know from concerts, to candyshop's beautifully written post that got the reaction she was looking for and sparked this whole thing. To HOM's political speech. Any Dylan fans here? HOM for president!

[candyshop]

dylan is the be-all end-all- well,him and iggy or maybe i just like wrinkly old geniuses

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

I live and die by my guitar!:D theres nothing better than finishing up the days jobs whether they be working, taking care of kids, or even workin on the next fix (it doesnt matter) gettin home and going nuts on the guitar for as many hours as possible is a killer feeling. The guitar for me is the ultimate tool. When im wailing on the guitar everything goes away especially after 100+mgs of Oxy, but even without the O its nuts...it brings me and many many orthers so much freedom. I love the feeling that i can just jam and go anyway i choose. Im just going off on this because Candyshop mentioned the guitar, and it is my life...im not in a band or trying to make a record (it would be cool...but) i just love the music....i play music for the music, the aesthetic, the groove. I try to help any and everyone i can to play an instrument...but even loving music is the same, its freedom. I think its really cool that there are so many music lovers here at Opiophile. For the past several years i have loved much about this site, but i never really appreciated how theres many here that love music so much and are passionate about it. Music is spirituality for me, its eternal. I also really like how this threads been going, i dont think anyone really has hard feelings about anything, just people trying to make points and thats what its all about here at the opiophile, people that have somehting in common learning from the others here about there experiences, there simmilarities and differences.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

earlier i was talking about improvisation. all music is improvisational. when a band sits down or just some dude in his/her room and creates a song from nothingness and makes it something...that is improvisation. i think that is magic. yes improv can also be when a band is playing a song and they go off on a tangent and create something else and it came from nowhere. But part of my philosiphy about music is that its all improvisational...from nothingness comes something. people may disagree and thats fine, its cool. Jamband music is improvisational in one aspect. But all music is improv really in another aspect.
this is off topic but it happened...voting, well i always vote and encourage others to vote, but i do think the average person needs to go beyond just voting. Not everyone agrees but voting in our country voting isnt quite a 100% accurate science. I am no activist or rallier or whatever...but i do think our system would work if people could just shake up the mindless bastards in our country that just follow the mainstream politics and dont make any bit of difference. I think and especially when it comes to drug policies, people need to do way more reading and learning from others and wake the fuck up, and shake up the ignorant politicians that sit at there pristine desks catering to the rich of the country. I know more could be done but writing letters to politicians, signing petitions and voting and getting others to vote could make a bit of change...but i think it mostly falls on the people to share knowledge and help others to understand the truths of drug policy and other policies so that a difference can be made....alright i need to stop now...i am a very politicaly minded person and i couldnt help but throw in my 2cents but as someone said this is another topic

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

I was just going through my Black Sabbath collection and i am always amazed by these damn albums. I just figured cause this is a music related thread i had to say BLACK SABBATH RULES!!! music that relates to sprituallity-drugs-politics and more...i dont know Sabbath had some serious riffs that influenced tons of modern music.
alright i just edited this in... i know this is a triple post again i usualy never do that (just this past thread), sorry again...it was all hours apart i think though...i hope no one cares.

[alowishus]

Sabbath has to be in my top 5 of all time favorite bands, the chord changes, tempo changes, the range.......they were 4 of the most creative people ever in music. They did stuff that people are still copying today. I've been getting my sabbath changed over to digi, so I can play it through my computer.

Sabotage is the one I've been playing alot lately. Symptom of the Universe has the best opening to any song ever.


AND Iggy Pop is in the top 7, but there's something about his work after 85-86.....I don't know, I just don't get, it's not Iggy.

[zombiewoof23]

Sabbath has to be in my top 5 of all time favorite bands, the chord changes, tempo changes, the range.......they were 4 of the most creative people ever in music. They did stuff that people are still copying today. I've been getting my sabbath changed over to digi, so I can play it through my computer.

Sabotage is the one I've been playing alot lately. Symptom of the Universe has the best opening to any song ever.


AND Iggy Pop is in the top 7, but there's something about his work after 85-86.....I don't know, I just don't get, it's not Iggy.

Definitely can't go wrong with sabbath. Definitely have to give credit where credit is due. I never get burned out on good ol War Pigs. Studio music I have always tended to get burned out on over time.

[ZodiacKiller]

Yeah, fucking Sabbath! I am forever chained to all the albums up to and including "Never Say Die". I worship them. Always have, always will. Got to see 'em in '78 (I was 13), on their last tour with Ozzy. Sabbath rules.

I've got some incredible bootleg video footage, including an entire concert in Paris, 1970. With the original lyrics to "War Pigs". I just about creamed myself when I found that on DVD.

Z-bloody-K

[alowishus]

Yeah, fucking Sabbath! I am forever chained to all the albums up to and including "Never Say Die". I worship them. Always have, always will.

There is no Sabbath past Never Say Die.

I liked Dio alot, loved his 1st two albums, even listened to The Eternal Idol back when it was released the name of the band that did it was called Black Sabbath but it wasn't, but if it was any other band name it would of been a great album.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

Hand of Doom=nough said. I really dig playin there shit on my guitar but i usually play the more common ones...sweet leaf, iron man, hand of doom, war pigs and more....many more...wiked inspiration on the guitar.
This band i really like Coheed and Cambria's main influences are Zepplin, Black Sabbath, Pink floyd, glass jaw, mahavishnu orchestra and more, i know thats pretty diverse, but its there influences, you can really see those influences too.
But sabbath man they f'in rock, im psyched to see sabbath fans here. ZodiacKiller thats cool you got to see them like that back in the day... that must have rocked

[scikid]

Wow, I didn't expect this at all.. I'm way to tired (two 13 hour work days in a row) to expand on my thoughts but I just want to thank everyone who has participated so far. I have friends that are into all different types of music so I've had similar convos to this before but its always interesting discussing this stuff with people you haven't met face to face...

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

Candyshop mentioned this earlier, and i had to write something to the same effect...Dylan is the man. Bob Dylan's entire body of work is phenomenal. I have his poetry/songbook and even just reading the stuff he wrote is unbelievable. WHen he was in the hospital from an accident i think i read he was writing hundreds of songs...maybe even daily. Bob Dylan deserves much respect from musicians and listeners alike.

[kdreimiller]

No love for the Beatles??? What? Man, I know I'll be the only person in the world who thinks this, but I think the Beatles were the best lyricist and song writers ever. Plus, pretty good technically. I know the ret of the world says Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricist / songwriter, but I dunno, while I think he's great, maybe #2, I think the Beatles are better. Maybe I should say Lennon and sometimes Paul, instead of saying the Beatles.

kdrei

[ZodiacKiller]

^ I will agree with the above statement. The Beatles were very progressive for the time, and waaaay ahead of their time, actually (if that makes any sense at all). One of my 80s cover-band co-guitarists also plays in a Beatles tribute band (they're called AppleCore, and are a tribute to the recorded works of The Beatles, ie. they don't dress up like them or anything---and they are absolutley amazing:http://www.applecorerocks.com/) and they play everything according to the sheet music. Well, he says that, having played just about every genre of music over the years, that playing Beatles music is hands down the most difficult to play of all. Their genius creativity and sheer astounding prowess at their instruments is unbelievable. So, whether you like 'em or not, you gotta give credit where it is due, I guess....


ZK

[zombiewoof23]

I definitely have love for the beatles, post LSD. Sgt. Peppers, White Album, Abbey Road, etc, etc. I am a huge Wings/McCartney fan, and Lennon fan also. That Lennon/Plastic Ono Band album is one of my favorites of all time with God, I Found Out, Working Class Hero, and Mother. I can't say that Beatles or their members lyrics are better or worse than Dylans. They're both up there on top. That's Right Ma (I'm only bleeding), Master's of War, Positively Fourth Street (my fav), Tangled up in Blue, Desolation Row, Stuck Inside of Mobile etc. Dylan's poetic qualities are pretty tough to beat. Both Dylan and the Beatles were way ahead of the game, visionaries that carved their own paths. Its funny how touchy of a subject music is, like politics or religion. Of course if you get HOM involved its all politics.

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

I'm not much for Guitar Gods and bitchin solos. I prefer simple structured music to pretentious jam fests. Theres something about watching stoned guys dicking around with their instruments that just doesnt attract me.

[zombiewoof23]

I'm not much for Guitar Gods and bitchin solos. I prefer simple structured music to pretentious jam fests. Theres something about watching stoned guys dicking around with their instruments that just doesnt attract me.

I'm just the opposite. I love the guitar gods from ZK to Randy Rhoades, Vai to Garcia, Anastasio to Malmsteen. And who can forget Dean Ween. Hendrix to Clapton. There's too many to mention. To each his own bro!

[HistoryofMadness]

beatles quite possibly are the best band ever.

[kdreimiller]

Youd think Ween was one of the biggest and most successful bands ever. Seems (at least in the world of online message boards and the like) everyone has heard of ween and everyone likes them - whther it's "yeah I got their albums, I really dig em" to "ween is the most awesome live band eva". Everyone has some love for Deen and Gene Ween.

[ZodiacKiller]

I'm just the opposite. I love the guitar gods from ZK to Randy Rhoades, Vai to Garcia, Anastasio to Malmsteen. And who can forget Dean Ween. Hendrix to Clapton. There's too many to mention. To each his own bro!

Wait a sec, Zombie--those aren't my initials are they? If they are, man....I am nowhere near in the same league as Randy, Vai, and Malmsteen. Three of my gods that have influenced me for all of my playing existence. And the others are great, too..I mean Hendrix, Clapton, even Mr.Ween? I am nothing compared to these guys...if I was, then why can't I even support myself playing my instrument? These guys have shaped the face of guitar music and will be remembered for eternity...all I did was play on some indie-label released, cult-audience type stuff that most have already forgotten about. I mean, I had some fun and got to travel, I wrote some songs that I thought were kinda ok, too, and I played the best I could and did some shows and toured, but it obviously wasn't good enough, was it, and I am nothing now. I mean, now I play in an 80s metal cover band that can't even find a decent drummer to save our lives.

If those are my initials, Zombie, then I thank you--despite what I just wrote it made me feel good. If they aren't my initials, then I feel like a total ass and will probably delete this post.


ZK

[hovadagod]

I like ween.

Beatles are the best band ever but I don't listen to them much unless they're on the radio b/c I've listened to all their albums for a year each.

[zombiewoof23]

Wait a sec, Zombie--those aren't my initials are they? If they are, man....I am nowhere near in the same league as Randy, Vai, and Malmsteen. Three of my gods that have influenced me for all of my playing existence. And the others are great, too..I mean Hendrix, Clapton, even Mr.Ween? I am nothing compared to these guys...if I was, then why can't I even support myself playing my instrument? These guys have shaped the face of guitar music and will be remembered for eternity...all I did was play on some indie-label released, cult-audience type stuff that most have already forgotten about. I mean, I had some fun and got to travel, I wrote some songs that I thought were kinda ok, too, and I played the best I could and did some shows and toured, but it obviously wasn't good enough, was it, and I am nothing now. I mean, now I play in an 80s metal cover band that can't even find a decent drummer to save our lives.

If those are my initials, Zombie, then I thank you--despite what I just wrote it made me feel good. If they aren't my initials, then I feel like a total ass and will probably delete this post.


ZK

Yeah those are your initials bro! I enjoyed listening to your guitar style. One of the things I noticed was that you have your own style. Just because you haven't made the leap to mainstream doesn't mean your guitar licks don't kick ass. There's too many other factors in the music industry to consider besides just talent alone. Proper management, record label, studio, the right producer, and the politics that go along with being in a band. I'm seeing some of my friends out there touring right now trying to make the leap. Many people make it who prlly shouldn't have, who just happen to have the right connections. By the way, I know of a kick ass drummer that you would hit it off with.

[HistoryofMadness]

Just because you haven't made the leap to mainstream doesn't mean your guitar licks don't kick ass. There's too many other factors in the music industry to consider besides just talent alone

Agreed... many masters aren't discovered until they're long gone... Besides, it is the recording industry's own fault that (a) many masters of music are being passed over for rewarmed bullshit, and (b) growth in music is being stifled because the industry is trying to control the direction of music by contractually obligating musicians to a style and not allowing expansion, instead of getting the fuck outta the way and letting evolution and history do their job...

[ZodiacKiller]

Yeah those are your initials bro! I enjoyed listening to your guitar style. One of the things I noticed was that you have your own style. Just because you haven't made the leap to mainstream doesn't mean your guitar licks don't kick ass. There's too many other factors in the music industry to consider besides just talent alone. Proper management, record label, studio, the right producer, and the politics that go along with being in a band. I'm seeing some of my friends out there touring right now trying to make the leap. Many people make it who prlly shouldn't have, who just happen to have the right connections. By the way, I know of a kick ass drummer that you would hit it off with.


Well, all I can say is "Thanks, man!". And yeah, the business side of the music industry is pretty much bullshit--and if you aren't savvy and make smart decisions people will take advantage of you. And touring is hard, very hard--yeah, it seems fun and glamorous, but in reality, you are beating the shit outta yourself mentally and physically. A few years of that with no financial reward and it can make you seem very jaded..But anyway, thanks for the props ZW--made me feel good, as I said...

BTW: well, let's talk about this drummer!!


ZK

[Opiyum]

honestly, i cannot believe what a ruckus-really although once again i do not like the music,i really was just sorta gettin off on my descriptive powers-i really could have thrown the same shit at any suba-cultcha type grouping
any alignment with a group in order to express how different and individual you are is pretty silly in my opinion- the idea that any sort of counter cultural movement still has any validity is sadly,unlikely-when you can buy rebellion at the mall and the same jocko-homophobes (settle down,am not saying all sports enthusiasts are a-holes) that used to beat up my friends for having blue hair now have blue hair,and tattoos
have become a rite of passage for every sorority girl-gone-wild the trappings and totems of "the underground" are meaningless ,they have been co-opted;bought and sold, yet, that said, i have nothing but
respect for the back to earth folks that really have dropped out and for thefucked up,scabby,rock and roll kids that still really and truly live and die by the guitar-i think there is a great deal of authenticity out there
it is not for me to decide who still carries the torch but i do not think the spirit of rebellion is dead

I didnt read this post nor did I read most of the posts in this thread since there was a lot of bitching going on about who called who an asshole and if they did it properly or not....anyhow your original post was one of the best things I've read in a while. So yeah... I quit as far as this thread goes(i know your all jumping with joy in regards to that comment heh).
What I wanted to say and forgot to was that you should exercise your magnificently marvelous descriptive powers more often no matter what the topic. As you can see I need the help...Magnificently marvelous???


Oh and Ringo is the most underrated drummer ever. Next to Danney Carey hes my biggest influence. His work with so many different styles of music in one band in such a short time is remarkable plus he had great skill when it came to tempo and time signature change. Great writing drummer.

[HistoryofMadness]

I didnt read this post nor did I read most of the posts in this thread since there was a lot of bitching going on about who called who an asshole and if they did it properly or not....anyhow your original post was one of the best things I've read in a while. So yeah... I quit as far as this thread goes(i know your all jumping with joy in regards to that comment heh).
What I wanted to say and forgot to was that you should exercise your magnificently marvelous descriptive powers more often no matter what the topic. As you can see I need the help...Magnificently marvelous???

Damn Opi-1 you missed pages 2-5 if you think that's what this was all about.. .actually most of the thread is positive... you should start reading about half-way down pg. 2 (or is it 3?)...

Or not, who cares.

[zombiewoof23]

Yeah opi, this thread has it all. Candyshop's beautifully written post to HOM's rant on getting kids at concerts to stop parading around in costumes, pretending to be a generation that already failed, and to take responsibility and pick up activism instead. Then we go back to the subjective musical debate. This was an entertaining thread for a while. Lots of strong opinions. I'm also trying to get ZK to get a good drummer I happen to know for his band. Oh by the way ZK, if you are looking for a kick ass cow bell player, I'm your man. I challenge anybody who thinks they are a master cow bell player to a duel.

[WarmCyanide]

I like ween.

Beatles are the best band ever but I don't listen to them much unless they're on the radio b/c I've listened to all their albums for a year each.

I used track 11 on white pepper album as our wedding recession song LOL

[alowishus]

I used track 11 on white pepper album as our wedding recession song LOL

What's "white pepper" album, and if you mean the white album, there are two track 11, "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey" and "Blackbird" the best song ever writen.

i just looked and my white album part 2 is ALL messed up, track 11 should be cry baby cry not monkey, all the songs are off. WTF must have an import.


Great site for fans, goes album by album song by song, all the inside dirt, can say enough about it.
http://www.iamthebeatles.com/index.html

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

blackbird besides being one of the best songs ever writen is also a fun song song to play on the guitar. It might not have any tearing solos or any thing like that, but the way the chords jump around the fretboard is awesome. You have to use your fingers, i usually always use a pick but this is one of the few songs that foced me to move beyond the pick. And the chord structuring is damn fun the way there are open strings throughout, it is a really fun song to just run with on the guitar. I lived near this irish chick for awhile and she had an awesome voice and she played that song so damn well, it was really inspiring. I know not to many like Phish here but they did a complete live cover of the white album, i think it was in 94. All four of the members singing and everything, a feat that not many bands have attempted succesfully, the live cover album has sold marvelousely as well (in a way a proof of there success). A cool thing about Phish is that they did Musical costumes on halloween for many years, covering complete albums. They played so much throughout the year it was a real treat to the phans. They covered the likes of Lou Reed's Rock and Roll Animal, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, The Talking Heads Step into the Light (i think thats the name offhand-it rocked though i can tell you that) The Who and the Beatles...for those that like the more structured and masterfull covers of great songs. Cover songs are cool when done right...they show that the music is still alive and bring a certain aspect of it back to life. I just mention Phish again because afterall this Thread is about Jambands and many jambands and jam fans alike kinda look at Phish as the last recent kings of jam music. Of course phish didnt play as good as the originals but that wasnt the point, they play a cover song almost in honour of the original giving the songs-live life again, playing favorites for the fans--and most of all just having a fun time on haloween. peace everyone.

[zombiewoof23]

They played so much throughout the year it was a real treat to the phans. They covered the likes of Lou Reed's Rock and Roll Animal, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, The Talking Heads Step into the Light (i think thats the name offhand-it rocked though i can tell you that) The Who and the Beatles...for those that like the more structured and masterfull covers of great songs. Cover songs are cool when done right...they show that the music is still alive and bring a certain aspect of it back to life. I just mention Phish again because afterall this Thread is about Jambands and many jambands and jam fans alike kinda look at Phish as the last recent kings of jam music. Of course phish didnt play as good as the originals but that wasnt the point, they play a cover song almost in honour of the original giving the songs-live life again, playing favorites for the fans--and most of all just having a fun time on haloween. peace everyone.
They actually covered Velvet Underground's Loaded I thought, and Talking Heads-Remain in Light, The Who's-Quadraphenia, and the Beatles-White Album. Also the others you already mentioned. That Dark side of the moon in the middle of Harpua from Utah is fucking awesome. I believe that was the night they encored with Smells like Teen Spirit as well.

[ZodiacKiller]

What's "white pepper" album, and if you mean the white album, there are two track 11, "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey" and "Blackbird" the best song ever writen.

i just looked and my white album part 2 is ALL messed up, track 11 should be cry baby cry not monkey, all the songs are off. WTF must have an import.


Great site for fans, goes album by album song by song, all the inside dirt, can say enough about it.
http://www.iamthebeatles.com/index.html

I think he means Ween's "White Pepper" album, and track 11 is a song called "Falling Out", and is a great song about fucked up relationships and friendships ending (one of my fav Ween tracks--incredible guitar solo), but as a wedding song? Whoa, that must've been some wedding...

Ok ZW, let's get going on that drummer...

ZK

[Opiyum]

Damn Opi-1 you missed pages 2-5 if you think that's what this was all about.. .actually most of the thread is positive... you should start reading about half-way down pg. 2 (or is it 3?)...

Or not, who cares.

okay when did this whole opi-1 thing start and who the hell started it? I hate all things star wars except the empire stikes back or which ever one is the one with the dude who sleeps insidee the animal for warmth.


anyhow I guess now i have revealed a way to push one of my buttons. fuckin Kinobi.

is there a page five yet? well soon enough there will be... havent you learned to ignore me yet? I even ignore my old posts when they pop up in revived threads.

I respect any band that plays while jumping on trampolines. Though that doesnt mean ill listen to them regularly.

[alowishus]

I think he means Ween's "White Pepper" album, and track 11 is a song called "Falling Out", and is a great song about fucked up relationships and friendships ending (one of my fav Ween tracks--incredible guitar solo), but as a wedding song? Whoa, that must've been some wedding...

Ok ZW, let's get going on that drummer...

ZK

THAT would explain it...... drummer? Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, two of the best EVER.

And I WILL fight this point. But 1st you guys better look 'em up on google just so you know whom I'm talking about ....:rolleyes:

[Opiyum]

Fast playin Jazz doesnt impress me...although some of Buddy Rich's fills are way ahead of there time. It's like he was listening to Lamb of God in the fifties.
I measure a drummers skill by their range not their legacy.
The shit Weckl, Portnoy and Carey do now would blow Krupa and Rich's fuckin minds

[alowishus]

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Buddy_Rich.html

Need quicktime to see it, but, no offence here Opi, but if you don't see the greatness in these two, you don't know anything about drumming, how is Keith moon from the who was he good, peter criss from kiss, both were taught by Krupa think it was Krupa or Rich.....anyway I can see things that todays drummers ARE still ripping off from them....the old blues guys never got their due either, even though EVERYONE stole from they and they were the 1st to do it, just because you don't like jazz, Big band. you don't think that the two most influential drummers of all time suck.

You are high.


And let a guy know if you're gonna edit your post before he starts him.......:o

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

They actually covered Velvet Underground's Loaded I thought, and Talking Heads-Remain in Light, The Who's-Quadraphenia, and the Beatles-White Album. Also the others you already mentioned. That Dark side of the moon in the middle of Harpua from Utah is fucking awesome. I believe that was the night they encored with Smells like Teen Spirit as well.

youre right i was going off memory-and sometimes my memory isnt that great. LOL. Especially when like most phish phans you have 500 plus CD's that you listen to almost all-equally religiously. Its interesting that Phish fans have such a good memory of so much info, that has always amazed me, its like phish fans are walking phish encyclopedias. thanks again for the correction though. I have all those albums except for the Floyd cover (which i really want). I knew the the Talking Heads one was something "in the light" though. and i goofed on the Velvet underground one, reason was i was listening to rock and roll animal all night and this morning. Thanks bro i am a big phan of phish and i wouldnt want any misinformation. I was typing that post rather quickly. My favorite one is the Talking Heads one it has an unbelievable groove to it, that show really stands out in my mind, ive never heard Phish do anything like that before really-every song on that album is awesome. Did you know that at the Utah-Floyd show you mentioned there were only around 4,000 people there supposedly it would be so sweet a nice small crowd. Most of the shows i went too were pretty damn large compared to that. ZombieW did you get to go to any of the final tour or the Last fest-Coventry. Camden was in my opinion-unbelievable, the Boston Shows were spectacular also. Me and my wife got to hit up the last leg of that tour right up to Coventry. We lived in the North East in the Mass-Vermont area so it was pretty easy to hit up all those last shows.

[ZodiacKiller]

Whoa, ok, drummers: in my book, Alowishus, you are correct that Krupa and Rich were among the greats from their era. Keith Moon: awesome. Peter Criss: I dunno, man...I mean, I love old Kiss, but he wasn't all that, IMO.

My personal favorite drummers: Neil Peart, Mike Portnoy, Dave Lombardo, and I really dig Scott Travis (Racer-X, Halford, Judas Priest). The guy from Dave Matthews band is good, but I don't care for their music too much.
There are many great drummers...this should be interesting.

ZK

[Opiyum]

Never said they suck and I happen to love jazz. I just have more respect for thought out performances. Jazz is a free form art and there for, in my opinion not as difficult. I have more respect for drummers who write to accent the rest of the band not drummers who have fifteen minute drum solo's. Percussion is afterall supposed to hold the beat down and thanks to the more progressive drummers it can also be part of the melody and can be harmonized and used to accent even the vocals. I have dozens of videos of all the old greats and have already seen what you posted many a times.

Sorry but I just dont buy into legends and all that shit. Keith Moon is the shit and so is everyone else you mentioned but I think that percussion is something that will never have a climax or...well some sort of peak that cant be surpassed. It will always continue to progress and what drummers are doing today is proof of it.
No offense taken but a comment like you know nothing about -anything- for whatever reason is assinine. No offense.
Technical Reputation

Danny Carey has amongst the greatest technical repututation of any drummer. DigitalDreamDoor credited "Lateralus" as possessing the greatest drumming performances of any album, with "Ticks and Leeches", "Reflection", "The Grudge", "Lateralus", "Parabola", "The Patient", "Schism" ranked as the 3rd, 28th, 46th, 72nd, 152nd, 155th, 160th greatest drumming performance ever.

Amongst live performances, his renditions of "Third Eye" and "Merkaba" on Salival were adjuged the 8th and 19th greatest live performances, respectively . Critics have noted his mastery of complex time signatures, and polyrhythms.



He trains with Aloke Dutta but you dont hear anyone makin noise about that...maybe in fifty years they will. Id be willing to bet Krupa and Rich are higher on the list that Im quoting but its just to emphasize the point that neither one of us are stupid for thinking one way or another.




That guy is my favorite and as always its all totally subjective. "The Patient" to me is the best drumming ever recorded. oh well. This conversation is really making me want to practice. Sadly Im not high as you say though I so sorely wish that I was.

The skins are calling.
Till later.


EDIT: Only Bonham and Baker beat him on the recorded best performances. But who the fuck is this guy that made this list anyway.

[zombiewoof23]

Have you ever checked out Medeski Martin & Wood, Opiyum? They are prlly my favorite jazz group. Usually 3 piece, but I've seen them with a DJ before. I've never gotten tired of that brooklyn sound. Billy Martin is prlly the best percussionist/drummer I've ever witnessed personally. They are all top notch musicians and definitely original.

[WarmCyanide]

I think he means Ween's "White Pepper" album, and track 11 is a song called "Falling Out", and is a great song about fucked up relationships and friendships ending (one of my fav Ween tracks--incredible guitar solo), but as a wedding song? Whoa, that must've been some wedding...

Ok ZW, let's get going on that drummer...

ZK

HEHE i fucked up. Track ten from Ween's album "white pepper" stay forever.

The track 11 I was thinking of was from an Aphex Twin album we used as well

god, im such an absent minded dumb ass sometimes.

hey ZK. did you pick up ween's "quebec" ?

[WarmCyanide]

Whoa, ok, drummers: in my book, Alowishus, you are correct that Krupa and Rich were among the greats from their era. Keith Moon: awesome. Peter Criss: I dunno, man...I mean, I love old Kiss, but he wasn't all that, IMO.

My personal favorite drummers: Neil Peart, Mike Portnoy, Dave Lombardo, and I really dig Scott Travis (Racer-X, Halford, Judas Priest). The guy from Dave Matthews band is good, but I don't care for their music too much.
There are many great drummers...this should be interesting.

ZK


drummer...Neil Peart (sp) from the band, Rush

edited by warmcyanide's dumb ass due to not reading ZK's entire post.

[ZodiacKiller]

HEHE i fucked up. Track ten from Ween's album "white pepper" stay forever.

The track 11 I was thinking of was from an Aphex Twin album we used as well

god, im such an absent minded dumb ass sometimes.

hey ZK. did you pick up ween's "quebec" ?

Ah, see that makes more sense, "Stay Forever" is a great track, and very melancholy and appropriate for a wedding.

And yes, "Quebec" is as good a Ween album as any--it took a few spins to get into it, but songs like "Transdermal Celebration" are instant classics if you ask me....

ZK

[zombiewoof23]

Ah, see that makes more sense, "Stay Forever" is a great track, and very melancholy and appropriate for a wedding.

And yes, "Quebec" is as good a Ween album as any--it took a few spins to get into it, but songs like "Transdermal Celebration" are instant classics if you ask me....

ZK

Transdermal Celebration really hit home with me, since I have in fact turned into a tree after ingesting too much of one variety of fungi.

[alowishus]

Opi like I said you need to let us know when you edit, when all I read is "Fast playin Jazz doesnt impress me" well what do you except.

There are SO MANY great drummers, Tool is my favor band since I saw them play on the 2nd stage at lalpolozza (sp) in90 or 91 Janes headlined but there was this band on the 2nd stage w/ this little guy who talk all shy and kind of well queer-ish, but then he let ROAR some sound that made my hair stand up straight, all I could get then was the EP but I'll been a HUGE fan since so I do know about Danny.

ZK on a side note my mom works at one of the arenas in NY back stage where Dave Matthews was playing like in 2002 2003, she'd been great friends w/ him and the drummer mostly ever since. I don't really like the music either but I had to say I did when your hanging out w/ 'em, and sitting on his set for warm-ups....FUCKING WILD let me tell you.

[Opiyum]

I didnt edit anything...except for the part when I said "Edit:" about Bonham and Baker. Doesnt matter anyhow I think we are on the same page.
I cant remember what its called but I like how Carter Beauford plays the drums ummm...Not cross handed you know right hand on snare left on HH. It seems to me that any drummer who plays this way has a way of doing things with a different feel than drummers who play cross handed like me.
Sometimes I try to play like that but I just cant do what I can normally that way.

[alowishus]

I didnt edit anything...except for the part when I said "Edit:" about Bonham and Baker. Doesnt matter anyhow I think we are on the same page.
I cant remember what its called but I like how Carter Beauford plays the drums ummm...Not cross handed you know right hand on snare left on HH. It seems to me that any drummer who plays this way has a way of doing things with a different feel than drummers who play cross handed like me.
Sometimes I try to play like that but I just cant do what I can normally that way.

I tried for a while but I had to switch my set all around, HH on the right side, I was making a lot of miss hits and hitting sticks, but when I worked I could see the benefit in it. Guess you gotta be left handed for it to really work well.

The fun will be in about a yr when I get my 2yr old his own kit, he can already keep time well w/ the HH on my set....:D


I didnt edit anything....

Bro it's water under the keg, in post #78 all that was there wassomething like "I don't like fast playing jazz drummers......" then you put more to the post. it's a non-issue, All I;m saying is I responed to that 6 word post in#78 everything before the "....." that's all man.

[WarmCyanide]

Transdermal Celebration really hit home with me, since I have in fact turned into a tree after ingesting too much of one variety of fungi.


how bout chocolate town?

"a new breath, i feel the grip releasing.

scraping my guts off of the ceiling."

[candyshop]

k-sorry to bring this back but i actually thought of one band i heart that sorta /maybe/possibly could be included in the genre -zappa and the mothers-just re-watched 200 motels -some ahead of it all genius ass shit-nothin to do with anything but i am high as a keith and sorta bored,there is no chat and i cannot seem to goad anyone into an argument

[Beautifully_Broken]

fabulous thread, great work everybody!

why all the hate for widespread panic though :(

[alowishus]

but i am high as a keith


Would that be "high as a Keith Richards".........:D :D :p :p


I love Zappa, god of all, just think about how many great guitarist he mentored.

Never really listened to W.S.P.

Jimi was always jamming, just wish I could get some of those tapes he made in Elec. ladyland late at night w/ anyone and everyone.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

Zappa was a huge infuence on the lead guitarist of phish. The dude had some kind of major experience at once of his shows that fueled his desire to be a musician. Zappa is cool. Its true so many guitarists have been and are influenced by his music.

[PRIZEFIGHTERINFERNO]

WSP is cool if you like that style. I really like progressive rock but i spent years and years submerged in the jamband scene/culture. Alot of shows combined with ganja/acid/opium. peace

[candyshop]

YES " high as a keith"- as in richards ,moon and that nicole kidmans greasy husband too-lotsa high keiths

[alowishus]

YES " high as a keith"- as in richards ,moon and that nicole kidmans greasy husband too-lotsa high keiths


I thought ya fat fingered a key and it worked anyway, but it was intended....never heard that saying; like it though!:D

I just meant the ones in his band over the yrs....but yeah I'm sure loads of been by his music/style, one of my fav. zappa records is just like 1 hour and a half of solo's no singing or anything else. He recorded most all his live shows.....love to get into that vault.

[ZodiacKiller]

Oh, crap, y'all had to mention Zappa. Been a fan for-fucking-ever...

Some of my faves: Zoot Allures, Sheik Yerbouti, all the Joe's Garage stuff, and the "Leatherette" bootleg, which Frank himself released live over the radio because he didn't want to give it to Warner Bros, who he was at war with at the time....It's got the un-edited version of "Titties & Beer" on it, and a version of "The Illinois Enema Bandit" that is just amazing.

BTW, there is a cool tour (of course, not coming anywhere near me) called Zappa Plays Zappa, here, check it out:

http://www.zappaplayszappa.com/

Oh, fuck forgot to mention "Bongo Fury", his album with Capt. Beefheart. Freakin' amazing.....the solo at the end of "Muffin Man is unbelievable...


ZK

[candyshop]

ya never heard it cuz i made it up -i am gonna trademark it like that cum guzzling twinkie paris hilton did with "thats hot"

[alowishus]

Oh, crap, y'all had to mention Zappa. Been a fan for-fucking-ever...

Some of my faves: Zoot Allures, Sheik Yerbouti, all the Joe's Garage stuff, and the "Leatherette" bootleg, which Frank himself released live over the radio because he didn't want to give it to Warner Bros, who he was at war with at the time....It's got the un-edited version of "Titties & Beer" on it, and a version of "The Illinois Enema Bandit" that is just amazing.

BTW, there is a cool tour (of course, not coming anywhere near me) called Zappa Plays Zappa, here, check it out:

http://www.zappaplayszappa.com/

Oh, fuck forgot to mention "Bongo Fury", his album with Capt. Beefheart. Freakin' amazing.....the solo at the end of "Muffin Man is unbelievable...


ZK

What's the un-edited version of titties and beer, the one I had was pretty un-edited:D :D :D
I can still sing it, every word, I was in 4th grade and got dumped by a girl, when I got home from school mom amd dad could tell I was bummed, I told 'em and my dad, well stepfather, he put that song on and gave my the headphones, you know the ones in those days, was like putting a helmet on, so from 4th grade i was a huge zappa fan, the only elementary shcool kid walking around singing titties and beer out loud:D

Love muffin man, and the song yes it's a song fer those that don't know....."I promise not to cum in your mouth again". Gotta love Zappa.

ZK there is some unbelievable guitar work on Sheik Yerbouti, "what ever happened to all the fun in the world" and another w/ something to do w/ tomatoes I think, you got my to dig out peice of mind (hasn't left my tape deck) now I'll be digging up my old zappa tapes.


Cool man that tour is in Orlando on dec 11, at the hard rock, nice place, saw APC there, and a couple other shows, very nice place, if you can get in the upstairs!!! And Steve Vai, Terry Bozzio are playing w/ him, man Thank ZK I would have missed this.....

[alowishus]

ya never heard it cuz i made it up -i am gonna trademark it like that cum guzzling twinkie paris hilton did with "thats hot"

Anyone seen the computer anime kids movie chicken little that came out a couple yrs ago, Foxies friend the goose, I think looks just like Pairs Hilton, they're twins!!!

[Woowoo]

Lately I've been finding that Leftover Salmon is quite tastey.

[scikid]

Hell yeah I'm seeing the Biscuits tommorow!

[surdali124]

anyone goin to the moe/keller/ some other people at the brown tomorow..only 20 bucks for 5 bands..great times..

[soulninja]

I toured with the biscuits for a bit,anyone into Brothers Past?I'm pretty good friends with those guys,they are awesome if you never heard of them checkem out.How bout Keller Williams any fans for that crazy guy out there?

Lets see ...who else is good...Umphreys McGee,Moe.,Particle,STS9,Future rock,The New Deal, and i cant believe people dont like Panic? Just wondering if those people have seen them or just heard cd's

[forevadazin]

Brothers Past are sick. I've seen them a bunch of times. And the Biscuits, what can I say. Just can't get enough. Toured with them a couple times. Pissed off I didn't even get to catch the show in my town this tour cause of obligations but next tour im catching every show.