Vaporizing with a terminal Lung Cancer patient?

[OrangeLude]

been spending a good deal of time with my brother who is in final patch of time with his struggle with Lung Cancer...on last Friday we moved as much in home Hospice facilities into his home...
When we were kids we shared everything - its so hard to watch him be taken by this horrible Cancer. His wife is another story, another day.
He wants to smoke pot with me...I have some serious exotics but a couple of weeks ago even the smallest toke was irititating to his lung...one of his lungs is just barely functioning...he hated those THC pellets - Marinol? or something like that. We cooked some brownies for him but he can barely eat...his condition is obviously degrading so inorder to consume some weed I'm looking at possibilities...

So I'm thinking we might try the vaporizor? Any folks with some experience ...terminal cancer..he has all the pain meds you could fantasize about...he wants to smoke pot...how do we help him?

thnx.

[Brony]

I think you're on the right path.

I'm no marijuana expert (haven't smoked it in a looooooooooong time), but vaporizing would seem to be the least irritating to his lungs.

[nick]

I suspect a vaporizer's as good as anything that uses the lungs.Maybe make dope hot chocolate-a drink maybe easier than solids to get and keep down.

[Thanat0s]

i knew a guy with COPD, older fellow,
he had an Rx fer greens,
vaporisor is the way to go...

start at the lower heat ranges(280F) and titrate up to the desired 'high'
and for minimal lung load.

you can make some VERY potent edibles with a butter or milk extraction,
to minimize what needs to be consumed.

once the bud takes hold i doubt hell have much trouble eating!

good luck.

[Opuim4TheMasses]

Yep, if the vape doesn't work def try eddibles. Easy to make and effective!

[Paregoric Kid]

sublingual and/or oral tinctures are great, vaporizing may work too depending on how his breathing is. vaporizing in combination with tinctures is good because the vaporizing can work really well for breakthrough pain. consider using hash instead of or with buds, less meds they have to take.
he could ask about nabilone (brand name cesamet), a synthetic cannabinoid stronger than THC prescribed for cancer and other diseases. there is also the legal synthetic cannabinoids which are quite potent in small doses.

[JTDuffet]

I suggest as others have said making some kind of tincture.. here is a good link at making canna butter.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/420-kitchen/37701-cannabutter-7-easy-steps.html



once you have butter, you can then add that to whatever your making. if eating it is hard you could always get these home made gelcaps with machine. put the butter into the caps and swallow em like pills. easy to titrate a dose with it, and should be easy to take.

http://www.cap-m-quik.com/ProductList.asp?CID=106


-jt

[Paregoric Kid]

cannabutter is good but in my opinion I think the alcohol tinctures are better. you can also use glycerin.

[OrangeLude]

thanks so much everyone...when he first went on Chemo we made up a batch of CannaButter from the instructions in PotCulture 101 - a very funny piece of media - he didn't really like the edibles but I think we'll give another try.
I have the vape with me today and we may break it out...

Now what about vaporizing the gel from one of his fent patches? j/k - he didn't like the fent....

[Thanat0s]

Now what about vaporizing the gel from one of his fent patches? j/k - he didn't like the fent....

im sure hed let you play with a used patch and the vaporiser...

good idea, btw...

[limitless_euphoria]

If he's going to smoke though, it would be best done from a vaporizer. There's probably going to come a point where he won't be able to smoke anything. The vaporizer is great for high quality weed especially (middies work in it but you need to use more) and I've noticed it can make me hack up a lung as much as a bong rip it's just that you're getting more THC and less of the stuff that does not get you high.

FWIW, I feel bad for your brother. Lung cancer is brutal. My sympathies to him. Hopefully they've made him nice and chemically comfortable. Also, it's good you're there for him. It probably means a lot to him.

[OrangeLude]

Thnx guys. We got the vape set up and he really enjoyed being able to get some THC comfort on top of all the shit they've given him...

forgive me for being an addict for this moment but he definitely has some serious meds on the table...none for me at this time 'cause I'm on a mmt taper & due for a UA any day now...no f'ing around....
he would let me sample any or all of it if I asked him...75mcg fent's, 80mg OC's, 8mg Dillies, bottles of 10/325 Endo's...all there as you would expect for a terminal cancer patient...he know's I'm tapering and that I've chipped...so he's not pushing 'em on me ... but knows my mouth is a little watery from all that shit.

No doubt Lung Cancer is brutal...way too much of it running through my family history...(why I haven't has a cig in 22 years...)

...today was fulfilling being able to be there for him...he wanted a vanilla egg cream and Nathan's French Fries...he ate a whole bunch of the fries after we had the Vaporizer going...we were burning a very kind bud called Frost...very mellow head and gave him some comfort ..we chatted...he nodded.

[duck]

I'm really glad it worked out for you and him! Pot is an EXCELLENT drug to mix with opiates when one is in excruciating pain, especially for prolonged amounts of time because it not only potentiates the pain killers, it also helps you get a nice break from the common currents of one's mind.

That being said, I would DEFINITELY do some more more more research about this before continuing. I know it seems intuitive that it wouldn't be hurting him, because there isn't any smoke, but that does not make it 100% FOR CERTAIN safe.

I would look around online in medical forums, medical marijuana advocacy forums, etc. even the more "straight" medical forums online would probably be very open minded to answering the question.

In my humble opinon, don't keep doing this without more research! You would never forgive yourself if you hurt him.

[Thanat0s]

I'm really glad it worked out for you and him! Pot is an EXCELLENT drug to mix with opiates when one is in excruciating pain, especially for prolonged amounts of time because it not only potentiates the pain killers, it also helps you get a nice break from the common currents of one's mind.

That being said, I would DEFINITELY do some more more more research about this before continuing. I know it seems intuitive that it wouldn't be hurting him, because there isn't any smoke, but that does not make it 100% FOR CERTAIN safe.

I would look around online in medical forums, medical marijuana advocacy forums, etc. even the more "straight" medical forums online would probably be very open minded to answering the question.

In my humble opinon, don't keep doing this without more research! You would never forgive yourself if you hurt him.

if were talking hospice, i dont think the long term effects of smoke are as much of a concern as comfort is.
in fact, this thread is a bit of research,
'IRL benefits of medical mj'

if its hospice time, tell a doc if ya wanna, but let the man have his thc.

[OrangeLude]

I'm really glad it worked out for you and him! Pot is an EXCELLENT drug to mix with opiates when one is in excruciating pain, especially for prolonged amounts of time because it not only potentiates the pain killers, it also helps you get a nice break from the common currents of one's mind.

That being said, I would DEFINITELY do some more more more research about this before continuing. I know it seems intuitive that it wouldn't be hurting him, because there isn't any smoke, but that does not make it 100% FOR CERTAIN safe.

I would look around online in medical forums, medical marijuana advocacy forums, etc. even the more "straight" medical forums online would probably be very open minded to answering the question.

In my humble opinon, don't keep doing this without more research! You would never forgive yourself if you hurt him.

Duck - 100% - been looking and reading beyond the good opinions here. I appreciate your thoughts & your concern.

As his oncologist said on Thursday there is nothing left to do except keep him as comfortable and pain free as possible...he is in the care of the Hospice facility and his family - for the time being we're still at his home.

When the time comes that he loses his facilities and becomes a burden that his wife doesn't want to handle - he will be taken to full time Hospice care at an outside facility. Currently the nurses & aides are at the house only 8 hours/day....

He asked me today about setting up his dillies & OC in rigs so he can IV'em ...and I told him that as much as I am willing to do just about anything for him at this time...that I'm not ready to do for him. Ask the nurse to give you a butterfly and tell her you want to IV your pain meds...at that point they'll put him on a Morphine drip I think....

research is on going.

[Paregoric Kid]

if he has good ventilation and is breathing relatively normal the vapor might actually have an anti-cancer effect on the cancerous lung tissue without ill effect. just make sure he isn't coughing and having trouble breathing.

[duck]

if he has good ventilation and is breathing relatively normal the vapor might actually have an anti-cancer effect on the cancerous lung tissue without ill effect. just make sure he isn't coughing and having trouble breathing.

what do you mean an "anti-cancer" effect?

OL: I knew it was terminal, but I didn't know it was in one of the latest stages. I thought he may still be trying to maximize time; but if he is just trying to maximize comfort, then it should be fine.

[Import]

^^^cannabis smoke has been known to cause cancerous cells to slough off of lung tissue in certain cases.

[Paregoric Kid]

the vapor should be much cleaner and better for him. the vapor of cannabis buds/hash contains antioxidants and other compounds that slow or reverse the development of cancerous tissue.

[OrangeLude]

yeah we are at the place we're it's about keeping him comfy as possible and allowing him to begin closure process with a few of the people still in his life....

his family life was a bit of mess and his greatest comfort & sense of self came from his work world...appears some of those people are his intimates...his wife at time is more of an obstacle than a caregiver - its a little dis-functional ;) to say the least....they had been looking at divorce until he was diagnosed....

he texted me this AM that he enjoyed the vape last night & looks forward to my coming up tomorrow.

we persevere...

[OrangeLude]

he's been getting good use from the the Vape...the biggest side effect benefit is that the THC in him is absolutely giving him an appetite. He's eating. Eating pretty well too. Some protein & veggies. Some good fibrous cereals...it was a pleasure to be with him and his wit today. to enjoy the vape with him ...and to be a companion.

[Dhedmo]

Awesome. Glad to hear it!

[missPopET]

I'm glad yr bro got some relief, Orangelude. You might try the tincture idea as well. You can mix weed tincture with various herbal extracts that would also heighten his appetite. Glad you can be there for him during this...

[Paregoric Kid]

that is really good to hear man. I really respect people who help the sick and dying have a better time while they are still here. I used to help AIDS and MS patients grow cannabis and opium and I know it made their lives a lot better. keep up the good work and hope your friend is doing better.

[Restharrow]

Hi O.L.

My father died from lung cancer. He lasted 13 months. I was glad I got to spend so much time with him.

Hospice is a great organization for patients and their family.

You are in my prayers.

Will

[pain-patient]

Good to hear of your experience with the vaporizer. I'm working with a 90 year old woman who is a new medical mj under our state program and has never used the stuff before nor has ever smoked. She has neuropathy in her legs and feet which has not responded to every treatment the pain docs offered. Thus, she needs a vaporizer. She ignored my advice to buy a Volcano (money is no issue for her) and instead bought this little hand-held "sexy" model the doc recommended that is powered by butane and has no fan at all so your inhalation must be sufficient to draw the heat convectively around the medicine.

Anyway, today I am going to bring her first batch, EVER, of medicine (if the snow ever lets up) and we will learn how to use this newfangled vaporizer. If a 90 year old can do it, anyone can.

I'm avoiding edibles because it's very easy to get too high on them -- and I've seen a LOT -- given the delayed onset and increased psychoactivity of THC after it's first pass through the liver.

[Paregoric Kid]

sublingual tinctures are amazing and don't get mentioned enough, no first pass metabolization, fast onset, etc. you could also try nebulizing cannabis tincture or some sort of liquid/oil extract. remember that in the US till the late 30s and the UK till the late 60s cannabis was prescribed as a tincture, just as opium is still prescribed.
also suppositories/enemas work very well too for people who don't mind rectal drug administration.
vaporizing and smoking are great and obvious ways to take cannabis but other routes of administration should be considered, especially in medical cases.
if the person has a chronic condition oral cannabis can be very helpful especially when used in combination with vaporizing/smoking. once you know the typical dose smoked/vaporized you can pretty much calculate an oral dose. yes its easy to take "too much" but if you titrate the dose conservatively you won't run into that problem and you will be able to know a dose that works after a little experimentation. other routes of administration, particularly oral, work very well for chronic conditions because the relief is longer lasting orally and more potent due to the many active metabolites. when the oral dose isn't relieving symptoms well enough, or the onset isn't occurring fast enough, then smoking/vaporizing some usually helps as a breakthrough option on top of the oral dose.
one more advantage of sublingual, buccal, and oral cannabis is that you can easily take your dose in places where you cannot smoke/vaporize and also take it quickly and without drawing as much unwanted attention.

[pain-patient]

PK --

The idea of a tincture is appealing, but I have very little experience with them and would not want my errors to affect a very nice old woman.

Don't tinctures and extracts require alcohol or some such non-polar or semi-polar solution to extract the lipophilic cannabinoids? This woman will not ingest alcohol either. Can one make a tincture or such without using alcohol or similar compounds?

TIA,

M

[Paregoric Kid]

glycerin can substitute alcohol easily. you could also use oils (like hemp seed oil or cannabis flower essential oil). basically take your cannabis/hash/hash oil and measure it, grind it up or if its hash oil just dissolve it in the menstrum (alcohol, glycerin, or oil) and let it soak. the amount of solvent/menstrum used depends on how strong you want it and what you are extracting. if you are using oil you can basically follow the cannabutter recipe. or you could use oil and glycerin or alcohol together, if you are using glycerin you usually let them soak in a dark place for 1-3 weeks, shaking once every day or so and after the weeks of soaking it is strained and ready.
perhaps a cannabis tincture recipe thread is a good idea. I have a collection of old recipes and could go into a lot more detail if anyone wants.

[Thai_Stick]

I've got personal experience with chemo and medical marijuana, and I think it's great that you're trying to help him out. I wanted to recommend that you focus on edibles if you can. They last much longer than smoked/vaporized pot and having someone with lung cancer inhaling anything will inevitably lead to discomfort.

My favorite recipe when I was sick was a chocolate fudge, basically melted chocolate with the pot butter and other flavors/sugar etc. Sweet, easy to let melt in your mouth, get down and keep down. Lots of recipes for butter fudge on google, of course it's just a suggestion. You can consider just taking butter plain if volume of food is an issue.

I know you said he prefers the vape, but I think now that he's eating more he'll find that the medicinal benefits of oral cannabis are superior to those of vaporized pot. The tincture they're talking about above is a great idea too, but it can be tough to make smaller quantities sometimes. Paregoric's post about using the vape for "breakthrough" effects with an emphasis on the oral doses is right on the money. In the end it's up to your brother of course, I just wanted to let you know what I personally felt did the best job of getting my through the rough patches. Getting him used to edibles might be a good idea for when he makes the move to a hospice facility as well.

I really feel for the both of you. It sounds to me like you're doing a wonderful job of being there for him. You being there to lean on and advocate for him I know makes all the difference in the world. Be sure to check your mail, I sent a couple of positive vibes your way (overnight).

Peace and love
Peace and love
Peace and love

[OrangeLude]

I've got personal experience with chemo and medical marijuana, and I think it's great that you're trying to help him out. I wanted to recommend that you focus on edibles if you can. They last much longer than smoked/vaporized pot and having someone with lung cancer inhaling anything will inevitably lead to discomfort.

My favorite recipe when I was sick was a chocolate fudge, basically melted chocolate with the pot butter and other flavors/sugar etc. Sweet, easy to let melt in your mouth, get down and keep down. Lots of recipes for butter fudge on google, of course it's just a suggestion. You can consider just taking butter plain if volume of food is an issue.

I know you said he prefers the vape, but I think now that he's eating more he'll find that the medicinal benefits of oral cannabis are superior to those of vaporized pot. The tincture they're talking about above is a great idea too, but it can be tough to make smaller quantities sometimes. Paregoric's post about using the vape for "breakthrough" effects with an emphasis on the oral doses is right on the money. In the end it's up to your brother of course, I just wanted to let you know what I personally felt did the best job of getting my through the rough patches. Getting him used to edibles might be a good idea for when he makes the move to a hospice facility as well.

I really feel for the both of you. It sounds to me like you're doing a wonderful job of being there for him. You being there to lean on and advocate for him I know makes all the difference in the world. Be sure to check your mail, I sent a couple of positive vibes your way (overnight).

Peace and love
Peace and love
Peace and love

Thanks so much Thai & everyone else...my brother and I have had a wonderful patch of moments together over the vaporizer during the past few days,,,early on we had tried edibles...and althugh I enjoy them he did not have an appetite (pun intended) for canibas edibles.

His condition is in decline but some what stable...the greatest relief for him came from coming off the chemo...he has actually cut back on the narcotic/opiate pain killers and increased tranquilizer intake....he is in a slow decline...and it continues to amaze me as I watch the process of a human being disintegrate. He and I have warmed up a great deal to each other and really been able to be there whether to nap next to him or make him toast & tea.
He and I spent the first 25 years of lives stuck to each other like ribs.
Marriage, work lives, different interests took us in different directions and although there was never bad blood between us we were no where near as close as we had been or as I idealized...so another 30 years have passed and this is where we are....3 and a half years ago we were together at my Mothers funeral and I tried to have a heart to heart with him...at the time he was frozen and untouchable.....
The closeness of the past few months is a great take away from this period...all I could have asked for under the circumstances...my sister comes north from Florida every other weekend since last May...we have always been close - worked at it - traveled to be together on family occasions, holidays etc... these circumstances remind us how good that it is we've one that.
Thanks for letting me do a little grieving.