about to do ibogaine

[trainwrecker]

Later on this afternoon I am going to be taking ibogaine to end a 10 year run of straight opiate dependency. I am also going to try to quit smoking cigs, caffeine, and refined sugar.

For the past year I have been taking 1 to 2mg of suboxone a day. I know it's a pretty mild habit, but to me quitting is just as hard as when I was on 100mg of methadone. I have all confidence that this will change my life.

I'll try to post back with the experience in a few days.

[lotus]

good luck......don't think i'd ever grow the nads to take this route.

[Opuim4TheMasses]

Good luck bro....Let me know how it goes!!!

[jacky]

very interesting.

hope all goes well.

just remember, keep certian activitys candid if possible.

your experience matters!

[nick]

Fingers crossed for you finding what ever you're looking for.

[chopstix]

Best wishes for a great experience, really looking fwd to reading a report..

[missPopET]

Awesome. Let us know what happens. I too am about to embark on an experience, not ibogaine but yeah. God speed!

[underide]

Like the above folks already said - best of luck to you
hope it goes well for ya mate

even more encouragement for me if hopefully it goes as smooth as possible for you,
..I have a feeling it will (well -i really hope it will, that is)
not that i need all that much encouragement - still have high hopes for it myself

despite everything i got to fuck around with and all that was bothering me by whatever's on every 'smart' dickwad's mind in terms of believing they know others better than they know themselves, knowing the score on bloody everything - i recognize the fools since i was one myself and to a degree still one of them on some fucked up and unfortunate occasions
doing my best to refrain from that BS these days thou..trying hard to keep myself away from that frame of mind
.
But fuck the above paragraph - tis about you here
Hope you get to prove some folks who think they know better about this subject denying it could EVER work
And Still ^^^not even about that....no need to prove shit to noone, i bet you know that since you have chosen to folow thrugh on this and i do hope you Succed

So just -BEST of LUCK

[Import]

Definitley an interesting choice...wish ya the best with all that housecleaning (especialy the refined sugar-yucko!).

I had a couple friends take this route, and I would be interested to hear how your experience compares with what they went through.

[Opiyum]

Well I imagine about now your right there in it.
I can't wait to hear back from you.
Hope all goes well.

I'm curious whether you stopped taking Suboxone a few weeks prior to dosing or not?

[mac]

I've always been fascinated with entheogens, particularly ibogaine, so I'll be very interested to read about your experience when you get through it. I've always wanted to try this myself but I don't think I'm quite ready yet, emotionally, physically, and mentally. It certainly takes some courage to put yourself through something so powerful and life affirming. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[dharma bum]

I hope you have a good experience trainwrecker. I would be VERY optimistic about using Ibogaine. Maybe it's because of the videos I watched today on youtube about a place in Mexico ran by a guy named Rocky. I remember Opiyum mentioned the guy and decided to check it out. Very positive reports---especially from this cute young lady. It's like they were all giddy to the point of hiding their smiles---and they all had smiles or fighting a smile. And they were dumbfounded at waking up, eating breakfast, drinking a cup of coffee, and not being dopesick.

Oh, and Opiyum, on one of those reports a guy was on Suboxone and went in for Ibogaine treatment-----you have to wait TEN days before taking the Iboga so they recommend maintaining on a short acting opiate first.

Anyway, I can't wait to hear about this experience and hope you had a good one.

[Opiyum]

I hope you have a good experience trainwrecker. I would be VERY optimistic about using Ibogaine. Maybe it's because of the videos I watched today on youtube about a place in Mexico ran by a guy named Rocky. I remember Opiyum mentioned the guy and decided to check it out. Very positive reports---especially from this cute young lady. It's like they were all giddy to the point of hiding their smiles---and they all had smiles or fighting a smile. And they were dumbfounded at waking up, eating breakfast, drinking a cup of coffee, and not being dopesick.

Oh, and Opiyum, on one of those reports a guy was on Suboxone and went in for Ibogaine treatment-----you have to wait TEN days before taking the Iboga so they recommend maintaining on a short acting opiate first.

Anyway, I can't wait to hear about this experience and hope you had a good one.

Yeah that's why I was curious because two different clinics I had talked too wouldn't dose a person until upwards of two weeks or so off of bupe.
And that was the difficulty I had with actually getting to the point where I could take it. Maintaining myself or paying for extra either way it was another obstacle in my way and then of course getting arrested changed all that and here I am in a sort of limbo, seemingly one or two doses away from being on the other end of it all. Chipping is certainly getting more difficult as the time grows greater between my forty some days of clean time last fall.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Good on you. When you feel you can, post. Excellent!

[trainwrecker]

My head is still pretty cloudy right now, so forgive and errors in grammer, etc.

I did find peace.

Two days ago I began the journey. I had a good experience the first night, but my dose was too low. We didn't have a scale that would do milligrams so we just had to eyeball. In hindsight I would guess I took about 500mg the first night.

Yesterday I felt pretty good, but seemingly from the start of the experience I knew that I had taken too little. I still felt alot better than when I started out(ie dopesick), but I had some pain in my legs, restlessness and general discomfort.

So I decided to take a full gram last night and oh boy, that was the ticket. I can not even begin to describe the things that were shown to me, all the mysteries of the universe. Birth, life, death and renewal. Infinity. I feel so lucky and so happy right now, beyond words.

I went back though my childhood, and was shown that ever since I was young I was at war with myself. Guilt, anger, self loathing. I have such a clear understanding now of what caused my addiction, and with that comes peace.

Nick I must specifically thank you, your words: I hope you find peace. Were guiding the experience, and only toward the end did I realize that was my problem, I have never felt true peace.

[Actavis]

Train, so you did this on your own and did not go out of the country to one of the clinics that do ibogaine treatment? I had no idea that one could procure ibogaine in the states (no, i am not asking how or where) just surprised you were able to get it.

it sounds as if things went very well for you. CONGRATS! from what i have read, ibogaine can and will reset the brain to a pre opiate state. (hence no tolerance after everything is said and done)

i read one story of someone that was at the 3-400mg mark with oxycodone, after ibogaine treatment and a month clean, he took one 10 milligram percocet and got excellent pain relief. (whereas before, obviously this would not have even come close to keeping him well let alone any pain relief).

Congrats on your new journey and i hope you are able to cope and stay clean for as long as you need/want to.

i would like to do this myself, but had no idea on how to go about doing it besides heading to mexico and spending a ton of cash. maybe i need to do a little more research. :)

[Papa Verine]

Very interesting trainwrecker.

Can you give us some more details about what happened with your withdrawals? I guess you'll have to give it a couple days to really know... but today, do you feel sick at all?

This is so interesting to me, and many others here. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I know I have many *issues* of my own, but it seems to me, what's holding me back most from getting off opiates, is the withdrawal process.

[trainwrecker]

I feel a little less euphoric than I felt a few hours ago, but I still have this amazing feeling of peace. Like there was a missing piece, and now it is in place.

As far a symptoms, I have none. I'm 5 days off the subs now, no runny nose, runny ass no chills, nothing!

I do feel kind of amped up, like on speed or something, but it is different, not uncomfortable. One thing is I haven't slept in over 48 hours. I guess it will be a while before I'm sleeping right again, but I can handle it.

I have a feeling that even if I do get some symptoms back I will be able to handle them.

One thing, in response to a question about the suboxone, I too heard that you had to wait at least a week, switching to a different opie. I waited a little over 48 hours with no other ops for help.

[nick]

I'm genuinely glad it was a positive experience for you.

[chopstix]

Awesome. Really glad you had a good experience man, please keep us posted over the next few days and let us know how you're feeling.

Very inspirational thread.

[underide]

Genuinely happy for you trainwrecker - at least someone has followed through on this!
and i do still intend to go for it, as soon as i can get a liitle more stable plus take care of a few other issues

Congrats, and i would also like to hear what hapens in the next few days - if you feel/able to post, i'm sure i'm not alone who'd be very interested in reading about your experiences

This thread, your post and most importantly YOURSELF, has certainly got the ball rolling in terms of moving this section of the forum (i.e the Ibogaine section) to another level - i.e an opio with an actual experience

I wish you the best of feelings throught the next days and weeks to come
And I hope you have gotten form this just what you were hoping for/expected, and although it might still be too early to tell, i have a slight feeling that you got even more out of it (judging by your post-experience post) than you've expected, and that could only be a good thing

Thank you for posting this
and best of luck with it mate

[Seedy]

Wow, this is history man, the first ever report on opiophile of ibogaine, and it seems like it worked! man, i've been taking psychedalics and a lot of dissacociatives lately, partly because i like to get wasted, but deep down to find the answer - what is the root of my addictions. it helps a little, especially a big dose of k, or dxm but the peace is always fleeting.

ibogaine sounds like everything i've always wanted it to be. this thread has given me, and probably others a lot of hope. thanks for being the guinea pig! i hope the peace stays with you.

[duck]

what is the root of my addictions. it helps a little, especially a big dose of k, or dxm but the peace is always fleeting.


Same here, I've used psychedelics to get to the bottom of my addiction, and I do, and it provides temporary peace b/c I have a new found hope, based on the aforementioned "infinity,"

But then a month or so passes and I realize, yes, I will get to experience infinity, but as a corpse and eventually dirt. Which is a little less warm and fuzzy.

I'm glad step 1 worked for you trainwrecker....and I truly hope the rest of the journey works out for you.

[Chipper]

So It does work - excellent. I've been skeptical but no longer. Well done, smart choice.

[mac]

I'm glad that your experience with ibogaine was so positive and successful. And although I understand the difficulty, or rather, near impossibility of describing such an indescribable experience, is there any way you can find words to better paint us a picture of what went through your mind during the experience? What did you envision and what were the visions like? Having experience with hallucinogens myself, although nothing quite as powerful as ibogaine, I understand the semantic problem with relating such an event to others; however, I am really curious as to what was changed in your consciousness, how it was changed, and what sort of things were presented in your mind.

Also, I noticed a few posters have mentioned using hallucinogens to better understand their addictions or to discover the reasons behind their drug usage. In my case, I used psychedelics before ever using an opiate for the purpose of finding answers about life, the universe, my consciousness and to possibly connect more with others. I have always felt rather alienated from society and I thought that I might find some answers about what environmental or internal factors made me feel so isolated. I approached it with naivete, however, and although I did discover a plethora of knowledge about myself and the world around me, it didn't lead me to being any less withdrawn. In fact, my social anxiety worsened as I continued to take such substances and it was that anxiety that lead me to use opiates in the first place. I found that they helped to lessen the animosity I felt towards people in general and that they alleviated my anxiety, helping me to feel more "normal."

Anyway, I'm glad that you made it through your journey with ibogaine a better person and hopefully with a new outlook on life. I am certainly happy that you've found some measure of peace and contentment.

[trainwrecker]

I still haven't slept since I started with the small dose three days ago. But I am awake, not speedy, but wakeful. Some of the 'euphoria' has worn off, but I still get tracers and small hallucinations. Probably from being awake so long at this point.

The experience it's self is actually pretty easy to put into words. Unlike acid or mushrooms you maintain a fairly clear head and the whole point is to remember the visions, so they stick with you.

The first night was really mild. But still pretty magical in it's own way. The second night I took a proper dose and I could feel right away that I was in for something much more intense.

It starts out with a feeling of pleasure kind of welling up in your stomach/groin area, I began to hear an orchestra of crickets and spring peepers, all very calming sounds that I have always enjoyed.

I put a pillow over my face and opened my eyes to the darkness. It began with a single point of red/orange light, like a fire light. The light grew bigger and I realized it was an eye, then it became a pair of eyes. It was then I realized I was facing the famous spirit of iboga, the African man wearing the top hat.

He didn't speak, but telepathically communicated. He began to introduce images into my field of vision, first they started out sort of obscure. As if they were back-lit by a camp fire.

Then everything was kicked into overdrive, he was showing me 5, 10 different things at once. Images would flash across my sight and dissapear, or change into other images. There started to be a theme of birth, death and re-birth. I saw flash before me generations of families, it was infinitely expanding. Birth, death, re-birth.

Around this time I was shown some horrible images as well. War, destruction, murder, pure evil. But I was made to understand that the universe is a balance between good and evil, they are equal opposites and each one must exist. I was able to let go of my fears, and my worries about the state of the world. Such a clarity.

I was taken back to a few specific traumatic events in my childhood. I was made to realize that since I was very young I have been afraid, guilty, angry and these feelings have just built up. There was a great feeling of letting go, that just by witnessing the events I could come to terms with them.

There is alot more, I will try to write some more down in the next few days. It can be fleeting.

[Opiyum]

Any nausea or vomiting? Were u able to stand or did you even try to or did you just spend the entire journey in bed?

[jpeg]

i am VERY glad you had such a positive experience! i have been very curious about this approach, as it sounds like the perfect thing for me. i've read some good experiences, some bad about Ibogaine, but you are the first that i "know" in any sense who has actually done it. i hope that you are able to keep things in perspective, and that it really worked. i have to ask...did you go to an actual Ibogaine "clinic"? or did you aquire it through a "friend"? what was your enviornment like? i'm sure everyone who has posted iin this thread would love to chat with you about this...such a fascinating subject.

i have another quick question for you guys saying you had to be off bupe for 10+ days before taking the Iboga...do you have to 10 days off all opiates? or is it just a special case for bupe?

[Opiyum]

i am VERY glad you had such a positive experience! i have been very curious about this approach, as it sounds like the perfect thing for me. i've read some good experiences, some bad about Ibogaine, but you are the first that i "know" in any sense who has actually done it. i hope that you are able to keep things in perspective, and that it really worked. i have to ask...did you go to an actual Ibogaine "clinic"? or did you aquire it through a "friend"? what was your enviornment like? i'm sure everyone who has posted iin this thread would love to chat with you about this...such a fascinating subject.

i have another quick question for you guys saying you had to be off bupe for 10+ days before taking the Iboga...do you have to 10 days off all opiates? or is it just a special case for bupe?

No one said you had to be just that that is what most clinics recommend and most won't dose a person till they know they haven't had any bupe for ten days at least. It's ten days off bupe and most of the clinics I talked to said they use oral morphine to tide you over until you get your Iboga dose...If it was ten days for all opiates it would kinda defeat the purpose of why one takes Iboga in the first place.
Bupe is a special case because of its ling half life and high affinity but apparently it's not the issue it's made out to be....Trainwrecker seems fine...maybe there are complications with some cases and the clinics just try to avoid that all together.

[trainwrecker]

No nausea at all. I was in bed most of the time, through the most intense parts, but after 12 or 15 hours I got up and could move around. During the intense parts your legs are very unstable and any kind of light feels like it's burning your retinas.

I still feel pretty damn good today, not quite as euphoric, but still very positive. I slept for a few hours this morning and it was very restful. But I feel pretty spent now.

I'll keep you all posted. I am really happy to be an example. This treatment seems hard to come by, but if you really want it, you will get it.

Tomorrow I am dosing my wife. I may take another little booster just for kicks.

edit: About the sub question. I was only off for 48 hours, but I have been only taking 1-2mg a day for over a year now. I've been on 4 years total, but mostly small amounts. I think it would be alot different if you were on 8 or even 4mg.

And no clinic, the comfort of home is good.

[China white]

No nausea at all. I was in bed most of the time, through the most intense parts, but after 12 or 15 hours I got up and could move around. During the intense parts your legs are very unstable and any kind of light feels like it's burning your retinas.

I still feel pretty damn good today, not quite as euphoric, but still very positive. I slept for a few hours this morning and it was very restful. But I feel pretty spent now.

I'll keep you all posted. I am really happy to be an example. This treatment seems hard to come by, but if you really want it, you will get it.

Tomorrow I am dosing my wife. I may take another little booster just for kicks.

edit: About the sub question. I was only off for 48 hours, but I have been only taking 1-2mg a day for over a year now. I've been on 4 years total, but mostly small amounts. I think it would be alot different if you were on 8 or even 4mg.

And no clinic, the comfort of home is good.
do you like like you could go to work right now???

[Indy]

The fact that you were taking suboxone and managed to get through withdrawal without it lingering on for weeks alone is nothing short of amazing. I was and probably am skeptical of iboga but this is very very convincing and encouraging, if true (which I have no reason to doubt).

[mac]

All of the ibogaine experiences I've read have simply amazed me. I'm almost intrigued enough to try it for myself.

I've heard and read a lot of reports from people saying that they felt almost as if they were communicating with their own subconscious for the first time and it was almost as if they were tapping into some kind of universal resource for wisdom and understanding. One guy described it to me as if his brain was being rewired by some kind of entity. He wasn't sure if the entity was external or internal. Did you feel anything like that? Also, were the visions vivid and were their meanings made clear at all?

Entheogens fascinate me and I can see where the name came from. Substances like these should be under research, not prohibition!

Once again, I'm happy your experience was positive and I hope it plays a role in shaping your future for the better.

[jacky]

sounds like a real interesting experience.

hopefully that experience can carry you for awhile!

[trainwrecker]

11 Days clean today and I want to give an update. Besides some sleeplessness I feel better than I ever remember feeling, physically and mentally.

Days 4-10 were pretty trying, I felt some mild w/d's and the lack of sleep up over the days was adding up. Luckily we have plenty of greens and I were able to get a few adavans the other night, that helped with sleep alot. All I am using now is Valerian root and melatonin and get about 4 hours of straight sleep a night, but it is actually very restful.

I did take two small 100mg(ish) boosters on days 5 and 8 I want to say. More of a placebo effect than anything, a little extra energy and sort of 'iboga' feeling. I think boosters are better taken weeks later if you feel strong cravings come back.

After the iboga wears off you kind of slip back into your own head again. I can say honestly I had no thoughts of using, but negative thinking would creep in if I wasn't careful.

My wife dosed about 1g-1.25 5 days ago and I must admit the experience was not as smooth as mine. I should tell you a little about my wife as a prologue to this, for I think it shows how much the users initial intentions reflect on the whole iboga experience.

My wife has never been in withdrawls, never more than day 1 or 2. She has been using heroin and suboxone for about 4 or 5 years, but by the grace of god as never run out during that time. She did not want to quit opiates with nearly the same fervor as I did. That is not to say she did not want to quit at all, but it's the difference with someone who is pushing 30 and been using 10 years and someone not yet 25 and been using 5 years.

Anyway, she was pretty uncomfortable throughout the whole experience. She had some pretty intense visions, but not the great feeling of awakening and revelation that I had. Her main problem was she felt physically uncomfortable throughout the whole process. Just anxious and sleepless, symptoms of withdrawl.

Now she is feeling better now, but for the first few days she was really starting to get me down. Just sort of negative, but I knew she didn't even know what 'real' w/d felt like and she just had to suck it up.

I am actually happy it has worked out like this, because it really inspires us to talk more about it. I am just trying to be her rock and be positive, and I think raising her spirits benefits us both. Every day she gets a bit stronger, she has been working a few hours a day and going for walks etc. It is really all about keeping busy, and keeping out of your head if something bad is kicking about in there.

Personally I have been working a ton. We run a little farm and work is never in short supply, good hard physical labor. I have basically been trying to completely exhaust myself, go to bed soar and tired. This really is key. We are lucky to have a worthwhile endeavor that we both care about to work toward.

In general I still feel like I've been reborn. I seriously see the world totally differently, I've had hundreds of opinions and feelings change over the past 11 days. Music and art effect me like I never thought possible. I find myself watching ballet and weeping, or listening to opera and trying to sing along.

I also have a new sort of interest in the dark side of life. Iboga showed me that everything is in perfect balance. Good is just as necessary as evil, and neither one is right or wrong. The Aleister Crowley quote: 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' is often in my head.

I think that for all those years opiates were the dark side in my life. I'm finding now I need to replace that with something, something more healthy. I don't know, some harmless mischief may be in order.

Eventually I am going to try to write a much more complete report about all this. I am glad I was posting here right after, something to refer back to, I wish I had kept a more regular journal.

[Synack]

Glad to hear you had a good experience... Ibogaine is what I intend on doing to get clean if they even resolve most of my pain..just because I don't want to deal with the w/d's...

[Papa Verine]

Aren't there a number of websites selling Iboga? Is this the plant, the raw material from which Ibogaine is extracted? How hard is it to extract Ibogaine?

I'd love it if MANY of us could try Ibogaine, and we could report our experiences here in writing. I'd be happy to go first.... (I mean second now) because we need to see how it works in larger populations of opiate addicts. Everybody's different... Everybody's different...

[Opiyum]

Aren't there a number of websites selling Iboga? Is this the plant, the raw material from which Ibogaine is extracted? How hard is it to extract Ibogaine?

I'd love it if MANY of us could try Ibogaine, and we could report our experiences here in writing. I'd be happy to go first.... (I mean second now) because we need to see how it works in larger populations of opiate addicts. Everybody's different... Everybody's different...

I think a methanol extraction can be performed and it's fairly easy. Only dangerous part would be evaping the methanol. Just don't want to use a gas stove for such a thing.
A lot of places do sell it and you can even find the HCl of it but can't really talk about that here.

[goagirl23]

Wow Trainwrecker.....I am seriously so happy for you. I have been wanting to do Ibogaine for a few years ever since I saw that documentary "Ibogaine-Rite of Passage". I felt like I could semi relate to you in your saying you saw the balance of good and evil in life, I had a DMT trip where I saw something similair. Im sure Ibogaine is way different though. Im really glad your feeling so well. Thank you so so much for sharing all this....

[jacky]

yes, this is a great thread trainwrecker!!

I was hoping that I could have joined your research by now....but my monetary situation has been draggin on for years longer than I had wished....

ibogaine can be sourced in some plants other than iboga.....but most are of rather low potency, and have some dangerous compounds that would need to be isolated out of the mixture to be consumed in concentrated form.

there is a species of tabernaemontana that exists in south america...this particular species has just been found to have mostly ibogaine as the active compound.
rumor is that commercial supply is just about ready to hit the market.
since this species is not a controlled plant in the USA, similiar to other entheogenic plants that happen to contain controlled substances...but not SPECIFICALLY scheduled as a species....the plant material would be able to be shipped into the USA for research and or other, non consumption uses.
there would be a considerable window perhaps, for a high ibogaine containing species to exist before any reactive scheduling would take hold.
plants like trachelopspermum jasminoides and various tabernaemontana species have been known to contain ibogaine for years now...there is a bit of internet info that was avialable with the t. jasminoides species being used for a group of hippies getting off of methadone somewhere in europe or Asia...I havent been able to find this report for some time now. I will probably just have to stumble over it again, either that, or its been taken off the web.
anyway, if this south american material contains around .5-1% ibogaine as the major alkaloid, its possible people could utilize this substance for addiction research. its possible it might even contain other alkaloids that make it even more efficacious than iboga?

its a bummer that treatment costs so much, even to procur enough ibogaine in pure form, not to mention the costs of travel and lodging.....decent iboga rootbark can be bought for as low as 300$ a kilo....I was able to source a kilo at this price for a freind in Brazil. nothing was shipped to the USA...but I thought I would mention this...as certian people might benefit more from buying the material themselves and having it shipped to their country of choice...say Canada or Mexico or maybe even Puerto Rico if its not illegal there.

sadly, this species of tabernaemontana has not shown up on the market, and I am worried that iboga producers might be worried about competition, and not having the market cornered completely....perhaps some iboga producers and european vendors have gotten together and bought all of this material in bulk for their own extraction purposes, too keep the market from growing or taking hold.
when there are only a few sources for a plant, supply could possibly be delayed for many reasons.

anyway, its a great thread that I look forward to following, as sometimes iboga users claim inspiration can last alot longer than just the direct action of the drug itself...rather the experience...has legs.

[Woody Bear]

J Ethnopharmacol. 1985 Nov-Dec;14(2-3):315-8.
Phytochemical investigation of Tabernaemontana crassa.

van Beek TA, de Smidt C, Verpoorte R.

From the stembark of Tabernaemontana crassa the alkaloid ibogaine was isolated as the major component. Ibogaine showed activity against the gram-positive Bacillus subtilis. Conopharyngine was identified as one of the minor compounds.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4094474
Tabernaemontana crassa is one I'll have to look in to.

[mac]

yes, this is a great thread trainwrecker!!

I was hoping that I could have joined your research by now....but my monetary situation has been draggin on for years longer than I had wished....

ibogaine can be sourced in some plants other than iboga.....but most are of rather low potency, and have some dangerous compounds that would need to be isolated out of the mixture to be consumed in concentrated form.

there is a species of tabernaemontana that exists in south america...this particular species has just been found to have mostly ibogaine as the active compound.
rumor is that commercial supply is just about ready to hit the market.
since this species is not a controlled plant in the USA, similiar to other entheogenic plants that happen to contain controlled substances...but not SPECIFICALLY scheduled as a species....the plant material would be able to be shipped into the USA for research and or other, non consumption uses.
there would be a considerable window perhaps, for a high ibogaine containing species to exist before any reactive scheduling would take hold.
plants like trachelopspermum jasminoides and various tabernaemontana species have been known to contain ibogaine for years now...there is a bit of internet info that was avialable with the t. jasminoides species being used for a group of hippies getting off of methadone somewhere in europe or Asia...I havent been able to find this report for some time now. I will probably just have to stumble over it again, either that, or its been taken off the web.
anyway, if this south american material contains around .5-1% ibogaine as the major alkaloid, its possible people could utilize this substance for addiction research. its possible it might even contain other alkaloids that make it even more efficacious than iboga?

its a bummer that treatment costs so much, even to procur enough ibogaine in pure form, not to mention the costs of travel and lodging.....decent iboga rootbark can be bought for as low as 300$ a kilo....I was able to source a kilo at this price for a freind in Brazil. nothing was shipped to the USA...but I thought I would mention this...as certian people might benefit more from buying the material themselves and having it shipped to their country of choice...say Canada or Mexico or maybe even Puerto Rico if its not illegal there.

sadly, this species of tabernaemontana has not shown up on the market, and I am worried that iboga producers might be worried about competition, and not having the market cornered completely....perhaps some iboga producers and european vendors have gotten together and bought all of this material in bulk for their own extraction purposes, too keep the market from growing or taking hold.
when there are only a few sources for a plant, supply could possibly be delayed for many reasons.

anyway, its a great thread that I look forward to following, as sometimes iboga users claim inspiration can last alot longer than just the direct action of the drug itself...rather the experience...has legs.

Thats great to find out that there are other plants containing ibogaine. I didn't know that. I really hope that the species you speak of -- trachelopspermum jasminoides -- may well be available soon in the United States. Perhaps this will lead to more research into ibogaine and it's effects.

Plant evolution really fascinates me, even more so than animal evolution. The chemicals and defense mechanisms plants have developed through millions of years of evolution are simply amazing. What's even more intriguing is these chemicals' effects on animals, specifically human beings. Plants produce everything from medicines to psychedelics to poisons and you just have to wonder what led to the formation of these compounds/alkaloids and what else might be out there.

[CognitiveDissonance]

So, how's it going?
Can you tell us anything?
Hope all's well



Oh, by the way thanks for the info you did send along.

I've been saving for a trip to a clinic in mexico.
But hearing your story I have only a short drive to Portland and might just drive over and find someone.
Hard part/ finding the right someone

[More Feen]

Wow, I have been skeptical of Ibogaine's reported powers, as we've heard it before "its good for what ails you."

But hearing 1st-hand reports of this chemical's powers is making me believe that there are some great benefits to be had with this chemical.

Off to do more searching.

Great job and congrats on getting yourself clean Train-W!

M F

[trainwrecker]

I've got 29 days today and feel like a fucking champion. No desire to do opiates at all. I have, however, been smoking weed like a fiend. I have always went through phases like that though.

I must admit the first couple weeks were still pretty sketchy. If I didn't have weed and valerian to help with sleep it would have been much uglier. Sleep is easy now, no benydryl, valerian or even melatonin.

I think the reason I felt kind of bad after the initial effects wore off is because of the suboxone. Pretty much all clinics want you off for at least a few weeks, I think if I would have switched to dope it would have been easier. I should say though that the 'bad' feeling I had was nothing compared to regular withdrawl.

I hear alot of people who quit subs with traditional methods say they still feel bad after a month, or even longer. I would say I have felt normal for the past week or even two, once the sleep cycle normalizes it is much easier.

[underide]

Sounds great, Trainwrecker!
What makes it even more incredible and just absoluely courageous of you is the fact you went through the whole thing being YOUR OWN therapist(s)..
I don't think i could trust myslef with that just yet( i,e doing the whole procedure on my own) nor do i think it would be a good idea in my case for now

And just the type of encouragement i need...
though i must admit- just over a year ago i was way more eager in terms of going for this treatment to the point of VERY positive anticipation of the treatment

Sadly stuff happened, i got more chaotic than ever and now i'm just not quite as "excited" about the whole thing as i was back then, but nonetheleless-
pretty hopeful still and would prefer this treatment option above others...
One thing that's still keeping me from going for it, and making my folks push for quite radical OTHER options instead, is that my prospective ibo doc/therapist is hesitant to do the treatment at this stage

I kind of thiink i may already have a (successful) shot at it, but also i do realise i need to sort some other stuff first

So thanks again for this type of "positive-reinforcement"
and genuinely happy for you , Trainwrecker..
Wish you the best of luck at sticking with your current frame of mind

[trainwrecker]

I can't give myself too much credit for being my own therapist. I truly believe there is a spirit inside this plant that guides you through the journey, he told me as much. It's like an all in one shamanic experience, the shaman is inside the substance.

I still will recall forgotten visions and I instantly have an impression of their meaning. The whole experience was like that, like you were shown an image and that is all you had to see. By seeing this image you realize the problem, understand it and resolve it in your own mind in the flash of a second.

I probably mentioned this before but I am thrilled to offer encouragement through this experience. Particularly if you have a strong will to kick drugs and change your life, and put a strong intention into it: you will have a life changing experience.

As far as the dangers of ibogaine go, they are grossly overstated. If you have a bad heart or are on certain medications it is maybe best to avoid it or find a clinic with a medical staff. But you have to think; African's have been taking this stuff for hundreds of years, likely thousands. They administer it and lay you out on a cold cement or dirt floor, wearing just a thin robe. The shaman will usually try to feed you as absolutely much as you can swallow(and this shit is bitter), almost always followed by intense purging at some point during the trip. Some tribes will douse the initiate with freezing cold water.

I really appreciated being able to do it at home in my own bed. I think having a doctor or nurse hovering over me taking vitals would have taken away from the experience. I initially wanted my wife to check on me every hour through the night, after the second visit I told her just to go to bed. It is such a personal thing, comfort and solitude went a long way for me.

[trainwrecker]

Here is the first part of a more detailed recalling of my ibogaine experience.

It has been about a month and a half since I took ibogaine HCL and there have been many aborted attempts to write about the experience. I think it is because for an experience so monumental, so incredible words can not do justice. So this is in no way a full report, even to this day I recall visions and insights that I had forgotten.
Just for a little back round, I am a man in my late 20s. I had been addicted to opiates for about 10 years, first to heroin, then on to the methadone clinic and finally for the last 3 years I have been on suboxone. During this entire time I had only been clean for about 2 weeks.
My wife and I both had been wanting to do ibogaine to kick our sub habits for many months. We talked to many, many different providers and treatment centers. We had treatments set up, and then canceled, we had enough money and then we had other things to spend the money on. It was really up and down for about six months until we finally got ahold of 3g of ibogaine HCL.
We had decided our best bet was to just do it on our own, at home. Having her 'sit' for my trip, and once I was on my feet she went for hers. We were discouraged from doing this by many people, but ultimately it was the best decision we could have made. There is nothing like the comfort of your own home.
We were also discouraged from using the ibogaine to directly detox from suboxone. Everyone said you should switch to a short acting opiate for at least a few weeks. We tried to maintain on heroin for a few weeks, but it was a dream. Who can actually maintain on heroin?
So I quit taking my 1 to 2mg daily dose of suboxone for about 48 hours before dosing. It was early evening and I felt like absolute hell. Unfortunately we didn't have a scale that measured small enough weights, so we had to eye out the dose. Something I thought I would come to regret, but in hindsight I am very happy we had to do it this way.
I put about a heroin packets worth(I was always told a packet was about 100mg) in a gelcap for a test dose and then filled up two other gel caps about half or three quarters full. I took the test dose and laid down in bed. My wife smudged me and the room with sage and I focused my intention as much as possible. I was hoping to quit the suboxone, smoking tobacco, refined sugar and to cut back on my marijuana intake.
After an hour or so my wife came back and gave me the rest of my dose. I was still feeling pretty bad, but perhaps a bit better with the test dose. I felt like I should buckle in for a wild ride, but I was mistaken.
That night I took too little, I would guess around 500mg. After some hours past I was seeing some very minor visons of which I don't remember too clearly. It was sort of a mid-evil European theme with some alchemy symbols and experiments thrown in for good measure. I do remember feeling my body being cleaned, organ by organ, especially the colon and bladder. And now that I think of it purging was sort of a theme too(of the visions, for I did not purge from one end or the other that night).
My wife checked on me a few times over the course of the night. Each time I wanted to ask her to give me more, I knew it wasn't enough, but I didn't. I felt relief from the withdrawals, but I was still very restless. I just wanted to sleep(yeah right) and I knew if I took more I would not sleep any sooner.
I got up before dawn and could walk around without too much trouble. I felt quite good physically and was glad to be out of bed. I watched the sun rise and ate some fruit. It was also at this time I smoked a cigarette(old habits die hard).
The day went on and the ataxia wore off, I was still feeling some slight withdrawls, but nothing compared to the day before. I went outside and shoveled snow from the driveway and did some other fairly physical labor around the house. My wife was amazed at the way I bounced back.
Later that evening my symptoms started coming back in a pretty major way. Intense aching in my legs was the worst. I took a hot bath and got some temporary relief. But by the time midnight rolled around I was in misery.
For a number of hours I was kicking around the idea of taking more. I knew it wasn't enough, but since we just eyeballed it there was no telling. Just after midnight I eyed out about double what I had just taken the day before.
I laid down again and almost immediately I could tell this was going to be very different. It began with a warmth starting in my solar plexus, eventually moving to all parts of my body. It was intensely pleasurable.
I closed my eyes and saw the familiar sort of electric waves from the night before. Soon I was concentrating on a single point of orangish red light. The light turned into an eye, and then two eyes.
The night before I saw these two eyes, but I was afraid and tried to avert from them. They did not reappear, and all day I had regretted not facing them. Now I was confident I was ready to see and around the eyes a face was formed.
It was a black man with tribal patterns painted on his face. He was lit up as if in fire light, as if we were standing on opposite sides of a fire. He sort of danced around, smiling and laughing knowingly. Beckoning me me follow him, not to any physical place, but to allow him to enter me.
I gladly accepted and he began communicating with me telepathically. It is a strange thing, I never heard his voice, it was my voice the entire time talking to myself in my head. But I understood that he was the one behind it.
I asked him who he was and he told me he was the spirit of iboga. I asked why he was there and he told me he was the first human to ever try iboga. The gods then sort of trapped him in the plant as a guide for all others who may take the plant in the future.
He continued to dance around the fire manifesting different colors and shapes as if to impress me. I didn't doubt his power, but it was as if he had to prove it to me. At this point the visions really went into overdrive. My wife checked on me about two hours into it and I told her "I am being shown all the secrets of the universe!"
The speed and intensity of the visions increased. I saw so many things, and I don't mind admitting I didn't really understand in my brain what they all meant. I did however understand in my heart, and since then I have recalled many of those visions and put the meaning together.
One of the most often reoccurring, most intense and enigmatic visions was of a giant and infinitely complex sort of pinball machine. The ball would bounce around off different points and end up at the top where there was a sort of victorious sound and pleasurable flashing of lights. Every time the ball would reach it's goal I felt intense waves of pleasure.
Eventually the game became sort of redundant. The ball was hitting the pleasure spot with such frequency it no longer had such a nice effect. The game went on for what seemed like hours and would reoccur at certain points later in the night. At the time I had not the slightest idea of what it meant, I thought he was just trying to impress me with his power.
Looking back I understand. Drugs were like a very fun game for a time in my life. Just bouncing around, hitting that pleasure spot. But the more you play the same game, the more you tire of it. It becomes a boring sort of exercise. A frivolous pursuit, with no real gain.
After about 4 hours my wife checked on me again, I told her just to go back to bed and not worry about me. I knew I would be fine and wanted to get really personal with my soul, without interruption.
The following visions are not in any real order, for it has been some time now since the experience. But these are the ones that really stuck with me, the ones I understood immediately and the ones that gave me the strength to prevail through all of this.
On of the biggest impacting visions was of the cycle of birth, life, death and re-birth. I was shown many different examples of it, from the microcosm(bacterium and mycelium growing and decaying) to the macro(entire universes and stars being born/dying) and everything in between(us and other animals).
I don't remember a starting point.(many people say they saw Adam and Eve(my wife did) but I recall an infinitely expanding picture of humanity. Babies turning into children, into adults, into elders and then death. But it never ended, it was like they were multiplying exponentially, one on top of the other, the bodies became so dense my view had to move backward to fit all of them into my plain of vision. They never stopped expanding, to infinity.
The infinite was an extremely prominent theme. I don't recall seeing the symbol of the oraborus, but the idea was constantly in the front of my mind.
Between visions the spirit of iboga would return and help give me insights into what I just saw. It was a very valuable teaching tool, I would be in total awe of the splendor and complexity of the vision, and I understood it immediately in my heart, but then he would come and help clarify it in my head.
He had an interesting humor about him too. Even when he was showing me horrible events and traumatic experiences, he had a sort of easiness about him, he laughed and smiled often. And even when he was serious he had a way of comforting me.
I traveled through the universe, past planets and stars through pure dark space. I would stop off on different planets and observe how similar to earth they were. I was not shown any inhospitable or otherwise scary planets. There was human and animal life similar to ours but different in small ways. I heard different languages, some of the earth and some not, but I understood them all.
I took this to mean that life is universal. Not that there are some crazy aliens on other planets(although there may be) but that we are connected to the entire infinite thing. A piece of us is in every star, planet, asteroid, etc and in us there is a piece of everything in the universe.
I was shown the recent history of man on earth. From tribal life to burgeoning cities, to exploration of unknown countries, all the way up to modern times. I was made to understand that this is all just a cycle of life too, as the seed of plant germinates, breaches the soil, thrives in the sun and rain to ultimately wither and die, providing seed and fertilizing the soil for the next generation.
There was defiantly a strong theme of imperial domination. I saw the whole planet with the various flags of the countries sticking out as if on a map. The united states flag began to replace many of the original flags until it dominated the entire globe.
For many years I have been far left wing. Making the transition from democrat to socialist to anarchist. The imperial motif was presented in such a way that I accepted it. Not that I necessarily now support US global domination, but I understand it as a natural cycle. What is the use in fighting such a thing?
I was also shown horrible atrocities. Not done by any specific country, but just general war, genocide, rape, torture, oppression, slavery. Basically pure evil, things that used to eat away at my soul. I would get all upset about the evil in the world, but through these horrible visions I was made to understand that it is just part of the world. The universe is in perfect balance, by definition it must be in balance.
I understood that there is no right or wrong, it is all subjective. There is light and dark, good and evil, and for one to exist the other must exist too. This was one of the greatest insights given to me. As I mentioned before I used to get so depressed about all the evil in the world, but I came to understand that it is an essential part of the universe. The best a person can do is live their life striving for one or the other, both are valid.
Maybe I should mention I choose the light.
Equals and opposites were probably the most major theme. In direct opposition to the war and death was the eternal life motif of the families multiplying. I understood them both to be natural forces of the universe, one as valid as the other.
The idea of 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.' Was planted in me. Before the experience that was about the extent of my knowledge of Aleister Crowley. Just that he said that famous quote and he was a famous mystic. I must thank the spirit of iboga for inspiring me to investigate Crowley further. Much of what I have learned from his books since then makes a great deal of sense in the context of my visions.
To be more specific, I understood that free will was the only real law. Every person ultimately has the free will to create their own universe. So in this case every person is divine, we are the creators of our own reality. Before the experience I had little conception of the god within me. I understood it in my head, but not my heart where it really counts.
I was shown many events from my past, mostly from young childhood. I don't want to charcterize them as 'bad' but perhaps traumatic. It gave me insights into how these events shaped me as a person, and perhaps how I was not letting go of them. How they lingered deep within me, and set the stage for maladjustment which manifested as addiction in later life.
However I should say there were no feelings of regret, sadness or pain. It was just like a lesson. It was me as a child in the visions, but I was somehow emotionally disconnected and therefor able to understand the experience and deal with it.
This was one of the most valuable things about the experience. How I was shown all these things, and could instantly understand and come to terms with them. It was as if I was being shown the story of someone else's life, it was me, but I was outside of myself looking in. Without the personal emotional connection it was much easier accept.

[Duckfeet]

Yep: sounds like similar to LSD and psilocybin experiences...which to me were earthshattering, totally transformative, etc...but whenever I'd try to explain them to others...it was pretty much like describing one's dreams: not all that interesting to'em...

Whether or not this actually helps people stay off opiates 'for good' is arguable, and the only person I met who had personal experience--as a councilor/facilitator down in a mexican ibogaine clinic--(somebody had died down there and he had to leave country), but anyway, he didn't stay sober, but seemed seriously changed by the experience and gave me the impression of being disappointed in me and others who didn't want much to hear about it, since it 'hadn't worked...' ...but to him the experience of doing ibogaine was life-changing in his words...

Oh well, to each his own...I would, tho, edit your post and put in paragraph breaks(Just hit enter 'twice' at the end of paragraphs), as *not* using breaks in lengthy posts asks too much of the reader and is a surefire way to get people to pass post up, or give irritable responses...best wishes...

[Thanat0s]

goddamn Trainwrecker,
awesome write up,

i dont even have a habit anymore,
but sounds like an ibogaine experience is something i need for my mental and spiritual reconcilliation...

id like to hear from someone who has used the substance simply for spiritual/mental/emotional growth etc...

i do my best work on myself in the psychedelic realm.

THX a TON for this thread, btw...

[norseman]

Yes, thanks Trainwrecker for the time spent explaining your experience. A lot of what you said hit home with me. I hope your wife was able to get some positive insights as well.

Cheers!

[tui]

Incredibly interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing trainwrecker.

Did your wife have the same african guide as you? Were your visions similar to each other?

p.s. how's it going with the tobacco & refined sugar?

Thanks tui

[underide]

I can't give myself too much credit for being my own therapist. I truly believe there is a spirit inside this plant that guides you through the journey, he told me as much. It's like an all in one shamanic experience, the shaman is inside the substance.


well my surprise might be slightly presumptuous in tha regard since - i've still haven't done IBo THERAPY but from what i know so far on the therapeutic level of the ibo administration - both reading-up and talking to a doc that treats people quite consistently (wel it would seem so anyway -make-belief?? but i still trust him), as well as talkin to a few people who went through it -
what surprises me is you being able to go through with it achieving what you had hoped for and more -well it seems so anyway =)
But all those that gave me a first hand experience - not more than 3 people (including my doctor) seem to stress the fact that when taking Ibo for therapeutic purposes or addiction cessation/interruption -etc (however pseudo -scientific this may come across to most) - for some it works a treat for some like yourself it seems) - you have to commit to a certain set of guidelines or rules, and follow strict (or not so strict) - therapist varying from one to the next, bu there seems to be some general guidelines, that are meant to be adheare to at least as best one can situations and all)
DOSING Procedure -

In my own grasp of it - you have to first estimate the right or at least somewhat 'right' dosage for treatment, then you have to split the dosage, so that you take it at 30-50 mins intervals, and each dose seems to cause more and more nausea to a point where you're just UNABLE to keep eating the caps - even being forced is a hard chore to bear, to say the least - but again just anecdotal accounts and the very few talks i've had with people having gone through it
But most seem to agree - someone keep pushing you too keep taking the caps, even forcing these caps down your throat while not always very successful (AFAIK), but then some seem to suffer more from this side-effect (volatile nausea), AFAIK

add on top of that the loss of motor-function - ataxia, loss of co-ordination,
plus losing time perception

IDK - to me it always seemed like something that someone just has to be there pushing forward in a way - encouraging to swallow the 'cure', and just being mobile and aware, still tied down to general, mundane type of time perception - i.e sober#
Someone to guide you, encourage you along, while not interfereing too much at the same time - seem an important factor for the experience itself, but still be around and keep an eye on you, make sure you take all that you have to take, and just be there to look after you and support you - well that's my idea of a decent therapist - once again - still hanging out to dry - odd, cold and shriveling up ol' me :rolleyes: :cool:

that's why personally i've always doubted i would be able to go through with Ibo therapy, or even if i DID decide to do it YOUR very sound way, i somehow doubt it would work for me personally
Maybe i'm being a pussy, but then i thought i was being a realist - i.e fucking it up for no good reason, and it being pointless in the end, turning me off it completely for the possible future treatment

And that ^^ is exactly why i admire your courage and just plain amazed it has seemed to work so well for you, mate...
Courage, straight head, S/O or loved-one's total understanding and support, and just having both enough balls and money to do it

while money is not particularly an issue in my case, as someone has agreed to help me out - i think i do lack most (if not all) of the above listed qualities to be a suitable candidate
But - like i said - maybe i'm being a pussy or just think too much, or both...in terms of doing it on my own

what i would be interested in doing though - is taking a moderate to just below (what's considered) high dosage of ibo for the experience, just before i have the actual treatment
and again - your thread here - just all the more encouraging for that purpose

so thanks a MIL from me also and i do hope you stick with your new found outlook on this life(style?)

Good luck and all the best

i still have hope it seems, however fleeting

[jacky]

I think an ibogaine enema might be a good way to get the large amounts of materials into ones system, if using rootbark/root powder.
smaller amounts of the pure alkaloids would obviously be easy to apply that way as well, and could possibly help with a percentage of the nauseating effects...at least those directly caused from swallowing herbs/gel caps again and again.

of course application of iboga in this fashion might be about as taboo as you could get from the bwiti-ist perspective.

I have had a bit of experience with enema's and psychoactive substances.
I did a san pedro ritual that way...and found that I overdosed myself by 3-4x what was necessary.
some substances are more potent via enema than via oral consumption.

a slow IV push/drip would also be an interesting set up.

[Opiyum]

I think an ibogaine enema might be a good way to get the large amounts of materials into ones system, if using rootbark/root powder.
smaller amounts of the pure alkaloids would obviously be easy to apply that way as well, and could possibly help with a percentage of the nauseating effects...at least those directly caused from swallowing herbs/gel caps again and again.
of course application of iboga in this fashion might be about as taboo as you could get from the bwiti-ist perspective.
I have had a bit of experience with enema's and psychoactive substances.
I did a san pedro ritual that way...and found that I overdosed myself by 3-4x what was necessary.
some substances are more potent via enema than via oral consumption.
a slow IV push/drip would also be an interesting set up.


Not only would overdosing maybe be an issue but would the ibogaine also not be converted in nor-ibogaine if taken this way? Would that maybe be an issue?
... ... ... ...
Well now that I have looked around it seems it is a pretty popular way to take Ibogaine but it makes me wonder if the side effects your losing maybe are a sign that there are certain aspects of the drug that are necessary for the drug to work that you are missing out on.
Just an assumption.

[trainwrecker]

People do take enemas, especially with a total alkaloid extraction which yields much more material that one must consume. As far as bio-availability goes I couldn't say, I have looked for charts with no luck.

We have a small amount left and we have been taking 50-100mg doses for energy on certain occasions. I asked the guy who got it for us if it would be ok to IV it, since I figured it would go farther that way. He told me to do so under no circumstance, and that even snorting it was a bad idea.

Conversely I have heard of cocaine and speed addicts who will take small bumps daily up the nose in place of their DOC. This often goes on for a week or two and then they are supposedly able to kick it completely. And as far as IV goes, I would be willing to bet at Dr. Mash's clinic in St. Kit's the dosing is done through a drip, but maybe not.

On a side note ibogaine is a wonderful stimulant in small doses. Nothing like any sort of speed or even caffeine. It gives me good energy for about 2-3 days, and of course I am able to sleep well in between.

[Tautou]

Honestly, this thread has me inspired. It is funny how many nay sayers there are out there, yet I haven't been able to find a single negative FIRST hand account.

I have been interested since last fall, and want and need more information

Thanks for the posts Trainwrecker. I just want to confirm, you live in the good old stars and stripes right?

[trainwrecker]

Born and raised in the good ol' USA.

[jmorri2nd]

good luck please let us know how it goes

[Duckfeet]

Honestly, this thread has me inspired. It is funny how many nay sayers there are out there, yet I haven't been able to find a single negative FIRST hand account.

I have been interested since last fall, and want and need more information

Thanks for the posts Trainwrecker. I just want to confirm, you live in the good old stars and stripes right?

On Opy you won't always get first hand info, but when it's something that could be potentially dangerous, or where we've heard a lot of 'wishful' thinking when it comes to *staying* off dope, we like to pass on even second hand info...if you want to do ibogaine, do it, we don't give a shit....but we'd personally be remiss not to pass on whatever credible information we do have...so whether you think it's "funny" or not, your own comments tell me you're pretty much already convinced, so go ahead and jump...but if we take the time to respond to questions, comments, no need to pass judgement...but of course, passing judgement and making these sort of put downs is also part of this site...there was a time on here when there was at least the slightest bit of 'promotion' of some of these alternative detoxes, and we wanted to make sure all the info, such as it was, got out there...good luck....

[Tautou]

"I have been interested since last fall, and want and need more information"

I appreciate the post duckfeet, though I wouldn't say I have myself totally convinced. I like to learn, and to explore. Like I said earlier, I want, and NEED more information. I honestly cannot find a single negative first hand account. Here or ANYWHERE else. If you could point me in the direction of some people who have tried it I would like to talk to them. Second hand information is very valuable, and I'll make sure I don't smoke my suboxone thanks, but I do also appreciate first hand experiences.

I am not proclaiming this the be all and end all of drug addiction (as many in the world have go this far already). I am interested in it. I note the few deaths that have occured, so they are not here to give a first hand account. Scouring the web, all I find are first hand positive experiences.

I do, and always will appreciate any information passed on, especially from more "experienced" members such as yourself. My current take on ibogaine is this: if the likely hood that you are to be harmed using this, isnt much if at all higher than methadone or suboxone, and it can help with the mind (where chemicals are fucked up and causing cravings), and several people with first hand experience give a very good report, then what would one have to lose by trying this? This train isnt going to slow down an let us off nicely. So I would think we should want to try anything available, that isn't going to kill us, and even if it does, the dope was probably going to do that for me anway.

While interested in alternative approaches, I do currently still subscribe to the "no free lunch" camp.

[Woody Bear]

On the balance of things, I'd try Ibogaine, but it's not really recreational, and it has way more side-effects than the other traditional psychedelics, so it's best used as an addiction interuptor or for healing.

However because you asked about negative reports about it, Tautou, I found you a link.
http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

I've actually listened to another bad report on a podcast with a guy who did underground Ibogaine treatments. It didn't work on a guy and he had some medical complications during the experience. The guy was late to the session, because he spend the entire night before the ibogaine smoking crack and didn't get any sleep.

Both that podcast report, and the one on heroin helper that I linked to, where the ibogaine didn't work, the thing they both had in common, where that their last dose of whatever was very close to their first dose of ibogaine.

So if your using opiates, you want to make sure that you're in withdrawals before you take your first ibogaine dose. And you want to make sure that you're well-fed and well-rested beforehand also.

[Tautou]

I also listened to the same podcast from this American life. I wouldn't classify that as a negative report entirely because like you said, the subject lied about using drugs the night before. Thanks for the other link tho. I am about to explore it.

I hope I've not given the impression that I am interested in it for recreation. I am interested in reducing my cravings as much as possible without using a maintenance drug. I am learning here, and I appreciate any and all feedback

[underide]

On the balance of things, I'd try Ibogaine, but it's not really recreational, and it has way more side-effects than the other traditional psychedelics, so it's best used as an addiction interuptor or for healing.

However because you asked about negative reports about it, Tautou, I found you a link.
http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_nightmares_part_2.shtml

.

read that very article myself (quite some time ago, as well)

Thing is, apart from the obvious fact that it's not going to work for every single one to try the ibo, there's also important factors to consider in terms of it being successful or failure..

All of this is just what i read/heard, etc, so i know, i don't have to mention that my post here is to be taken with a few grains of salt, and i know some probably will even dissmiss it right out of hand but anyway - what i know is -

Some very important factors to consider - some 'therapists/providers' are pretty inexperienced, and some even are only in it for the $$$$
In such cases, it can go very wrong if not ultimately tragic - but that is not anything that could be blamed directly on Ibogaine itself - people are to blame here IMO

Another thing - some people don't stick to what the thereapists,(especially those ones that actually KNOW what they are doing), are telling them to do
i.e - some people get loaded on their DOC right up to the minute of the tcommemcement of Ibo treatment, when the thing they should be doing is following instructions and abstaining from ALL drug intake for a certain period

Misdjudging the dosage, individual health isuues, physiology are also factors of significance AFAIK

what sruck me having read this article was that the therapist in that partcular case was not really good at what he was supposed to be doing
Another thing - perhaps the 'patient' herself was either not ready, or did not follow some basic guidelines...

but again - just my take on this