why do people overdose

[jacky]

many reasons. as the number of users in a group go up so do overdoses, the numbers grow at different rates. human error and attention seeking may result in increased casualty. I just heard that Jack died. heroin overdose. if the answer can be summed up in a short sentence. he fucked up. I was just hitting his house up this summer.....showing them other ways to kick....maybe used the information to push the envelope. like when I told Dan that I used while on naltrexone and got "high" his freinds let him rot in a corner. high on naltrexone and vicoden. the bottom line is you better know your dosages. and this is pretty much impossible with heroin. same with the poppy seeds if you are combining them with pills it looks like.....people dying widens the road to the underworld for the living.

[Paregoric Kid]

I read somewhere that a company is making OxyTrex, containing mostly oxycodone and a very small amount of naloxone, the antagonist helps prevent a tolerance from forming

one of my favorite bands, the germs, their singer intentionally OD'd, it is a pleasant suicide, another reason why people overdose

[Peripat]

The one time I ever dropped was on a combination of Xanax and heroin... I remember thinking "mmmm, this would be a pleasant way to die" before everything went black and my legs collapsed from under me... didn't even get the spike out of my arm, heh...

[bi11i]

somewhere that a company is making OxyTrex, containing mostly oxycodone and a very small amount of naloxone, the antagonist helps prevent a tolerance from formingwouldn't that potentiate the oxy?

[Paregoric Kid]

yeah it's supposed to from what I've heard

[bi11i]

i would imagine that they're putting in the naltrexone so you can no longer inject it - similar to suboxone....

[Opiyum]

Is there any truth to the myth that people OD when they are forced to cop from a different source. From what I've heard the users body is used to them going to the same house and the same room with the same people around and when these series of events takes place the bodies immune system kicks in and is prepared for the foreign substance. As opposed to going somewhere new where you supposedly are catching the body off guard allowing more of the substance to get through.


I remember reading a study with mice that confirmed this but cant seem to find the damn thing anymore.


Is this horseshit?

[Paregoric Kid]

a lot of heroin overdoses might just be fatal reactions to cuts in the heroin like quinine.
check this out it's pretty interesting:
The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports Magazine, 1972
Chapter 12. The "heroin overdose" mystery and other occupational hazards of addiction

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu12.htm

[blackdog]

HEROIN does not kill
PEOPLE KILL!!!!!!

[illchemist]

The only time I ever came close to overdosing was a few years back. I hadn't done H in a few years and I was visiting an old friend when this girl showed up with the most incredible, purest, pharmaceutical grade shit I ever saw. I bought 2 20's. There was such little powder in them that when I sniffed half, I got off really good. Later I sniffed the other half. After that I remember smoking a hit and then later walking down the stairs and purposefully lied/collapsed down on the carpet floor. My breathing had become so shallow that I literally had to tell myself to breathe. I hallucinated that a wise old bearded man had risen out of the floor and began talking to me (what, I don't know). Eventually, I came around and made myself stand up. I was fucked up throughout the following day. Very pleasant experience but rather scary, I must say. Better make sure you control your doses if you are not used to purity.

[Opiyum]

a lot of heroin overdoses might just be fatal reactions to cuts in the heroin like quinine.
check this out it's pretty interesting:
The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports Magazine, 1972
Chapter 12. The "heroin overdose" mystery and other occupational hazards of addiction

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu12.htm

That is the best informational site on drugs I've seen. There are entire copies of books there man. God thats great. So much reading material. Thanks Paregoric.

Although it still didnt answer my initial question but who cares at this point anyway.

[ZodiacKiller]

Interesting thread. And I have a question.....

Has anyone heard of anyone ODing after snorting H (remember the scene in Pulp Fiction where Uma honks one line and collapses back on the couch-ODing..)? I know overdose is mostly associated with IVing, and it would seem to me that you'd have much more control over your intake/dosage via the insufflation method...

Actually, I'm asking 'cause this past weekend the stuff we copped from our regular guy (which is usually very good), was insanely strong. We only snort, no IV. I was a little worried there, for a while: we did our usual few small lines, and about 10 minutes later it was like getting hit by a truck. Good because we didn't do anymore that nite, but wow, it was like a ton of bricks. Our usual one nite's worth kept us high for 3 days instead.

ZodiacKiller

[candy]

Opiyum,
I doubt that your environment has anything to do with it or your immune system. From what I have seen and know, most OD's happen after a combination of drugs, respiratory depressants(benzo's/opiates).

And I wouldn't believe what I have seen in a movie. They tend to push it a bit far!

[shaunclo]

Interesting thread. And I have a question.....

Has anyone heard of anyone ODing after snorting H (remember the scene in Pulp Fiction where Uma honks one line and collapses back on the couch-ODing..)? I know overdose is mostly associated with IVing, and it would seem to me that you'd have much more control over your intake/dosage via the insufflation method...

Actually, I'm asking 'cause this past weekend the stuff we copped from our regular guy (which is usually very good), was insanely strong. We only snort, no IV. I was a little worried there, for a while: we did our usual few small lines, and about 10 minutes later it was like getting hit by a truck. Good because we didn't do anymore that nite, but wow, it was like a ton of bricks. Our usual one nite's worth kept us high for 3 days instead.

ZodiacKiller

Yes, it is most certain that you can OD just as Uma did in Pulp Fiction. Sounds like Good Shit.

You can OD by any way of administration, being IV the most dangerous, (of course)

Was that your question Z_K?? Maybe I read the post wrong.

[shaunclo]

Yes, it is most certain that you can OD just as Uma did in Pulp Fiction. Sounds like Good Shit.

You can OD by any way of administration, being IV the most dangerous, (of course)

Was that your question Z_K?? Maybe I read the post wrong.

Actually I think the only way I have never heard of someone OD'ing is by smoking it, I think you would pass out before you could smoke enough to OD.

[shaunclo]

Opiyum,
I doubt that your environment has anything to do with it or your immune system. From what I have seen and know, most OD's happen after a combination of drugs, respiratory depressants(benzo's/opiates).

And I wouldn't believe what I have seen in a movie. They tend to push it a bit far!

They always add a couple of extra affects for the veiwing pleasure, put you can definitely OD by sniffing H.

[Opiyum]

They always add a couple of extra affects for the veiwing pleasure, put you can definitely OD by sniffing H.

Yeah but I dont think shooting adrenaline into your heart is gonna do shit. Quentin didnt do his homework there, but it is one of the best scenes. So shit on my house.

[illchemist]

Smoking is by far one of the best methods of ingestion. Well, it hits you very fast and you get a nice rush. This also allows you to titrate your dosages better. It is easy to put a little too much up your nose or in your veins all at once whereas smoking allows only for a certain dose at once. Usually one hit is good if it is pure. You can see where your at right away after a smoked dose.

[Opiyum]

Opiyum,
I doubt that your environment has anything to do with it or your immune system. From what I have seen and know, most OD's happen after a combination of drugs, respiratory depressants(benzo's/opiates).

And I wouldn't believe what I have seen in a movie. They tend to push it a bit far!

EUREKA!!! After alot of searching I found what I was beginning to think was my Memory shitting on me. This is a very long medical journal that is a kind of an extension on the link Paregoric offered. I wont pretend to be a scientist so all I can say having skimmed through it is that what I remembered reading somewhere apparently seems to be true. Like I said its a long read but the entire thing is about overdose and studies that have recently been done on it. So maybe it will help to answer the question as to "Why people overdose" for some of us. For me though all the big words just confused me.

I think you need the Adobe reader to view it...maybe not though...hope I could be of some service.

http://search.bwh.harvard.edu/concourse/900/articles/SiegelRamosDrugECP02.pdf

Now that I've forced myself to read it I see that the enviromental or Pavlovian response is just a part of this study. This is a very in depth article and I think all the Chemists here will enjoy it immensely.

Happy Trails...

[ZodiacKiller]

Yes, it is most certain that you can OD just as Uma did in Pulp Fiction. Sounds like Good Shit.

You can OD by any way of administration, being IV the most dangerous, (of course)

Was that your question Z_K?? Maybe I read the post wrong.

Actually, I'm not sure what my question was, but maybe I'm just trying to delude myself into thinking that 'cause I don't IV that I'm in less danger of overdose. However I know that is definitely not the case--it's just common sense. Reading stories of fentanyl being sold as heroin in small, toxic doses doesn't do much to reassure me either. Usually when I first begin to use H, I'll chop it all up on the mirror and cut me and the wife 2 big lines each--that always seems to be a good starting dose. However, with the powerful-ass shit I had last weekend, those 2 initial lines were enough to really throw us good, and had we done more right off the bat, it may have been too much.

Did I mention that despite the fact that I don't have the monkey on my back, and I'm a weekend warrior now, I still have a monstrous tolerance? WTF? Last Friday I chewed up 160mg of OC (ABG generic), and still would have liked a line or two of smackity-smack...thankfully we both have good jobs, but sometimes I just can't seem to get high enough. Only sometimes. I'm a heroin pig, I guess (Bruce McCullough, anyone?).

ZodiacKiller

BTW, Shaunclo: check your pm's...

[devilsdrug]

trust me when i first did a match head of straight from nam dope , if i had done say a line the size of a paper match id been history, or damn close

[red26]

I was over a fellow opiophile house one night and was doing my usual shit, S.B. combo. I lucked out cuz they noticed I had been in the bathroom for a long time, so upon discovering my body they tried to get me breathing again, but it took them a half hour. This happened about two months ago. When I came to I was fine and just wanted another hit. Of course they wouldnt give it to me but the person that was there would definatly explain it better. Where you at poon?:angry2:

[renton]

I take adrenaline sometimes for allergic reactions and am fairly certain that if you took it during an OD it would save your life. It speeds up your heart and breathing and makes it easier to breath in general, although it only lasts for a short time till you can get to a hospital. Seems like it would make sense for heroin users to have an Epipen, "thats an adrenaline syringe", just incase. Candy would probably know allot more about it though.

[Opiyum]

I take adrenaline sometimes for allergic reactions and am fairly certain that if you took it during an OD it would save your life. It speeds up your heart and breathing and makes it easier to breath in general, although it only lasts for a short time till you can get to a hospital. Seems like it would make sense for heroin users to have an Epipen, "thats an adrenaline syringe", just incase. Candy would probably know allot more about it though.

Most OD's happen, as Candy and many others have said, take place during the mixture of drugs, Inpeticular benzo's and opiates. To add a stimulant like cocaine or adrenaline to this mix would be extremely dangerous. This is the definition of speedballing which is bad to begin with but to do this while ODing well thats just not something I would recommend. I'm fairly certain that Candy or anyone else who's had to deal with people ODing would agree.

I guess it might give you more time to get the person to some Nal' but the risk is definatly not worth it.

No offense bro but I think it's a bad idea for any addict to keep epinefrin on hand.

[poonwhalla]

yeah that was a crazy night the whole SB thing can be dangerous. Red dissappeared while we were sitting around next thing I know this chick asked me where my friend went so I got up to check. I go to the bathroom and see red hunched over I figured it was just a nod so I shook his arm no responce so I opened his eye and not reflex turning blue so the chick was like get him in the shower get some cold water on him. That was a heavy 175lbs but anyway. Smack his face a few times nothing. lucky for me and red this girl was a nurse. so we took his body into my studio room and found a pulse but he wasn't breathing and turning a purpleish blue and heart rate was going down to 10 bpm. She cocked his head back and started giving mouth to mouth. after 10 mins he still wasn't breathing on his own. She was asking if I had any speed in the house to jump start his heart. We knew it was risky but were afraid if we dumped him off at the ER he might not make it. So no speed I hate the shit we got ice and started shoving it down his pants...nothing. I was starting to lose it worring I was going to lose one of the coolist people I know who has been there through thick and thin anyway, we decided it was time to take a ride to the ER figuring fuck having the fuzz come to the house that is just more trouble so 4 of us carried him down the steps to the kitchen while Sally(name has been changed to protect the innocent) kept going with mouth to mouth while my gf was checking his pulse to make sure we didn't have to start doing that chest thing. It was up and down. So I pulled the car to the door and ran inside and I heard a big sigh next thing you know red's eyes opened up...amen. Well he wanted his gear back right after but his shit was all over the house. I went outside to smoke half a pack of ciggs and red got to think about making out with a 400 lbs mexican chick. all in all thank God there was a nurse in the house and I learned a lot. Granted but if I had speed or adrenaline I probably would have taken the risk on the advise of an ex-junkie nurse who at this point it was her 5th OD.

[red26]

muchas gracias poonwalla! I still dont understand why I was absolutly fine when I came to.

[shaunclo]

Damn!!!! Thats some story, Red Im glad your still here with us man.

Just outta curiosity, was it just H you were using that night? I know you said S.B., but I assume you mean Speed ball?? correct me if Im wrong.

[red26]

Yeah, I was speed ballin it alot then. I just got used to it , drivin to denver and all. On the way back I'd be noddin out behind the wheel so I'd have to pull over and do a shot of ya' for the trip home. Just got used to it is all. The combo can take its toll after a while. Thanx man, I'm glad I'm still here too. Wasnt the first , probably wont be the last but I hope so.

[candy]

I have not heard of any heroin addicts that were given adrenaline(epi-pens) for overdose. While Epinephrine may work to restore a cardiac rythm during a cardiac arrest, an overdose is due to respiratory arrest, which in turn causes the heart to slow to dangerous rythm or stop altogether. In anaphylaxis, it works by relaxing bronchial smooth muscle by way of the sympathetic nervous system. I wouldn't administer it to anyone who is overdosing. It could make problems much worse as it affects heartrate, blood pressure. Epinephrine also reacts with a number of drugs and can have bad effects.

It's a great drug when used for what it is intended for, but not one I would keep around for OD.

The best drug to give anyone who has OD'd or is suspected of OD is Narcan. And if someone is not breathing or is out cold, call 911. If your worried about arrest or other legal problems and it is not your home, give the 911 operator as much info as possible. Leave the door unlocked and bail if you need to. If you intend on staying....Be more discreet with the 911 operator. If you mention OD, you bet the cops are going to come. You want the medics only and if you have to BS to get them there quick, do so.

But by giving the medics as much info as possible if you do not stay will help your friend. Tell them exactly where to find them, especially if your outside. Leave them in a well lit area if you are outside. Don't stick them in a bush or in some area where they cannot be seen. Sucks if the medics have to go looking for your friend and he dies while they are searching for him. Give any other pertinent info you know; any other medical problems or meds they may be on, are they HIV or Hep C positive, things like this can make a huge difference.

And don't roll someone from the car if your taking them to the ER. They may keep rolling and never make it to the front door. And I know some of you are laughing at this, but it has happened and they were found the next day by the guy who trims the trees. Ruined his day for sure.

It can be a really scary deal when someone OD's and most of us have dealt with it at aome point. Take a quick lessons in CPR. get some chart to keep on the fridge that shows how to give CPR. I know it may sound a bit strange, but if your going to play around, why not be safe as well. Especially if your having outhers in your home who are using as well. You could really save someone's life while your waiting for help. Brain damage occurs when the brain goes without oxygen and CPR can make a huge difference.

Hey, we should all enjoy what were doing, but being prepared and knowing what to do can save someone's life. Nothing ruins the evening more than someone dying on your floor! And there is nothing wrong with asking your friends to follow some basic rules. I had some strict rules when other's used my home to get high in and this was years ago, but it saved me a lot of trouble and I didn't worry about my neighbors or the cops.

The more you know, the better off you will be!

[poonwhalla]

thanks for all the great advise candy! there was 4 of us that were going to leave him at the door, not just dump him off like I stated before I live like 3 mins from the hospital mouth to mouth would have still been happening. On the adreniline thing I think that was a wise tale that she kept engrained in her mind, but just from that experience I asked her alot of questions about cpr and got a crash course on it. I have been working too much recently but I would like to take a class someday. Once again you are a blessing to us OPers on this site

[blackdog]

i'm sorry to but in without all da facts.however many times in the past it's been mentioned to me thatit's not the heroin that kills us ,moreso it's got to do with the adultrants and cuts,something about
how you can do all the heroin(pure) that ya want and survive it,s the mixture/cuts the end product you know heroin is a deisigner drug and sum is speedy other burn and or itches .

when i know exactly what i'm talking about i'll get back to ya's peace steve

[red26]

This was clean tar. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but getting all different shit from all different people I know clean junk just by smelling it.

[furber]

i'm sorry to but in without all da facts.however many times in the past it's been mentioned to me thatit's not the heroin that kills us ,moreso it's got to do with the adultrants and cuts,

totally correct, my doctor says that most addicts can take about five times their normal dose and only feel sleepy, it is the adulterants that kill,