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alb123
11-30-2009, 04:15 PM
There was a discussion I overheard the other night... The subject was drug testing and while I know something like oxycodone can be differentiated from something like morphine, the people were saying that morphine & heroin can not be tested independently. Is that true? When a drug screening is performed can they determine whether or not heroin was used versus morphine or vice-versa? Or do both trigger a positive result for morphine? I was always under the impression that heroin metabolizes into morphine. As you can see, I am certainly no expert...


Thanks!

Opiyum
11-30-2009, 04:23 PM
No there is no way to tell if you used heroin codiene or morphine. All they will know is that you used an opiate. A true opiate.

Chemical_Boy
11-30-2009, 04:28 PM
There was a discussion I overheard the other night... The subject was drug testing and while I know something like oxycodone can be differentiated from something like morphine, the people were saying that morphine & heroin can not be tested independently. Is that true? When a drug screening is performed can they determine whether or not heroin was used versus morphine or vice-versa? Or do both trigger a positive result for morphine? I was always under the impression that heroin metabolizes into morphine. As you can see, I am certainly no expert...




Thanks!
You can tell heroin with in 12 hours of use because of the presence of some other short lived metabolite that is unique to heroin. After that it just shows up as morphine.


No there is no way to tell if you used heroin codiene or morphine. All they will know is that you used an opiate. A true opiate.

I thought this was true but found out wrong when I tried to pass off codeine intake as the reason for the positive. I then dug up an old script for morphine and this satisfied them.

Needless to say, I was surprised cuz like you I thought the three were essentially indistinguishable from each other.

Alas, this is not the case.

alb123
11-30-2009, 04:30 PM
You can tell heroin with in 12 hours of use because of the presence of some other short lived metabolite that is unique to heroin. After that it just shows up as morphine.



I thought this was true but found out wrong when I tried to pass off codeine intake as the reason for the positive. I then dug up an old script for morphine and this satisfied them.

Needless to say, I was surprised cuz like you I thought the three were essentially indistinguishable from each other.

Alas, this is not the case.

Okay, if you're saying that codeine IS distinguishable from morphine are you also saying that heroin IS distinguishable from morphine?

Chemical_Boy
11-30-2009, 04:43 PM
It is for about twelve hours. Then, as I understand it, there is no longer the presence of the short lived metabolite associated with the heroin. Also, I do not know if most standard tests with test for this metabolite. If you have a script for morphine, it will cover heroin usage.

However, I was using dope, got popped on a piss test for work and tried to explain it away with my recent codeine script. The testing facility that did the GC/MS test called me to verify scripts. They said specifically that I tested hot for morphine. The codeine explanation did not work. Then I said "oh yeah... I did take #@$@$#" as a long shot. I sent them records of a morphine script that was over a year old saying I had hung onto a few for the condition they were originally scripted for and then the test was ok.

alb123
11-30-2009, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the responses!

Citricburn
11-30-2009, 05:14 PM
I remember one of my old probation testers ( they did 2 swabs a week that were sent for lab analysis) and she told me there was a chemical that was only present in STREET heroin and so they were able to tell between that and other opiates, so I guess they could distinguish between that and morphine....this is only possible in lab analysis though, not piss test or on the spot saliva tests...she mentioned the name of the compound too but i cant remember for the life of me..

Chemical_Boy
11-30-2009, 05:26 PM
^^^ 6-acetyl-morphine

Although this is a metabolite of heroin whether it is street or pharmaceutical grade.

port rhombus
11-30-2009, 05:50 PM
^^^
Theoretically the presence of noscapine (and/or papaverine, maybe others?) metabolites in urine can be used as a marker of street heroin use. These compounds can survive the illicit diacetylmorphine manufacturing process. I doubt this sort of test is widely used, if at all.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10697778?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed _ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

More Feen
11-30-2009, 06:47 PM
^^ + 1 ^^

The standard urine dip test can dectect OPIates, but cannot distinguish between Codeine, Morphine or Heroin (probably other closely structured compounds--hydroC & hydroM).

Strange opioids like fentanyl, darvocet & bupe generally don't show up on the opiate panels though.

Once the OPIate panel is Positive, then they'll send it off for GC or MS for confirmation and determination of the drug(s)' metabolite present.

Heroin created in clandestine laboratories (jungle labs) will have many by-products in it due to short-cuts made to save money. I think TAR is the result of TOO MANY shortcuts in the process, but since people still buy it, they'll keep making it.

Anyway, whereas pharm-pure H should be 99.99% H, illicit H will likely contain the following:
3,6-diacetylmorphine, 6-monoacetylmorphine, morphine, acetylcodeine, codeine and probably some other alkaloids of the opium poppy (mentioned above).

I was always told that it is the presence of these other drugs (their metabolites, actually) that can be detected by GC or MS after the + urine stick test.

I have no idea about the time range for these things.

M F

retrogradeamnesia
11-30-2009, 08:05 PM
^^^ I was also under the impression that certainly GC/MS will be able to determine which opiate thru ID of major metabolites namely,

Heroin: Morphine, 6-monoacetylmorphine, Urine 3-4 days as the morphine metabolite.

Morphine: Morphine Glucuronide, Urine 3 - 4 days

Codeine: Norcodeine, Urine 2 - 3 days.

pdxninja
12-11-2009, 05:14 PM
im resurrecting this thread to make a statement which is also kind of a question.

according the the dr i saw about getting comfort meds for my cold turkey, he claimed that the gc/ms tests his lab does can detect heroin metabolites for up to four weeks. im not sure if he was just bluffing me or what. can doctors lie about that?

More Feen
12-11-2009, 05:21 PM
Damn, I'm sorry, but anyone can tell you anything, they can even lie.

A doctor can--maybe if they feel it will benefit the patient (with holding cancer diagnosis from patient--common in Japan, I think).

If your doctor is talking about Hair Samples for GC / MS then yes, heroin use can be detected for as far back as your longest hair has grown.

Keep your locks cut short, maybe even shave your head (should include eyebrows, pubes, arms--fuck, all body hair).

I'd rather just get busted then go thru all of that.

M F

pdxninja
12-11-2009, 05:26 PM
he was definitely talking about detectable metabolites in urine.
he was claiming that up to 4 weeks they could find the most finite amounts of metabolites.

he probably wants to make sure i dont relapse and also cover his ass for rxing benzos to an addict. (even if it was librium:rolleyes:)

but 4 weeks? in piss? sounds highly illogical. but who knows with modern tech.

im taking a long vacation anyway maybe permanent from my DOC. but i found it interesting that a dr would mention 4 weeks for gc/ms heroin metabolites in urine.

More Feen
12-11-2009, 05:38 PM
Generally, 4 weeks is the longest time for UA to catch something--usually a fat-soluable metabolite.

There very well might be something in illicit heroin that sticks around that long.

Fuck, I don't know dude,

M F