4-AcO-DMT

[robothanded]

Either I suck at UTMFSE, or it didn't show up anything..

Long shot, doesn't seem like there's a heap of psychedelic users in these forums, but there's some a comin from some fairy up north. All the reports I've read have been nothing short of remarkable, resembling it to mushrooms without the bad parts, like cramps, thought loops, bad body load, etc. And good parts, such as a sedating/non anxious come-up, and euphoria throughout.

Just thought I'd share my hopeful future encounter.. I'll post reports on how it goes.

[dieselbaby]

If it compares to 4-AcO-DiPT you will probably be in for a good time. Being that there are so many different research chemicals out there with minor variations in effect, I don't know if you are going to have some remarkable experience- so don't go in there with any expectations and you may end up pleasantly surprised. Happy dosing :)

[Suboxer]

I can't stand 4-HO-DMT (psilocin/mushrooms)... I LOVE DMT, and 5-MeO-DMT is just sucky... it's none of the great, "load universe into cannon, fire at brain" goodness of DMT, and has a harsher body load; it's conducive to short, intense BAD trips IME. n,n-DMT, IMO is BY FAR the King of all Hallucinogens.

I don't have that much experience with RCs (I won't buy powder from a shady online source, and that's a good thing, considering the recent 2cb-fly and bromo-dragonfly mixup that killed a bunch of users of RC Haupt [now defunct]. It's too risky; an end product made by chemists of questionable skill, packaged by people of questionable skill, etc.. Questionable skill and shady right down the line, from precursors to your front door.)

I've had experience with 3 DMT derivatives. (5)-Methoxy-DMT (5-MeO-DMT), self-extracted (I'm a chemist of somewhat reasonable skill, definitely enough to do good extractions), n,n-DMT, self-extracted, and (4)-Hydroxyl-DMT (4-HO-DMT), self-extracted from Psilocybe cubensis and Psilocybe cyanascens by the lemon tek method.

Each has vastly different effects. Based on chemical structure (which is notoriously unpredictable when it comes to predicting the effects of hallucinogens: they have a strange structure-activity relationship, and many delicate nuances that are impossible to derive from a chemical formula), 4-Acetoxy-DMT (Your 4-AcO) is very similar in structure to psilocin. The only difference is a substitution of a hydroxyl for an acetyl. This leads me to believe it will have very similar properties to mushrooms, differing only in potency. It's going to be EXACTLY like mushrooms, and much less like DMT. 4-AcO-DMT is a very, very similar derivative of psilocin, the active component of mushrooms.

4-HO-n,n-DMT. 5-MeO-n,n-DMT. n,n-DMT. Three chemicals, very similar in structure, yet vastly different in effects. I can't stand the mushroom trip: it is sinister, thought-looping, and panic-evoking, and not psychedelic. It lasts almost 8 hours. I love the DMT trip. It is clear, intense, clean, and extremely psychedelic. It lasts under 30 minutes. Some people love mushrooms and hate DMT. Anecdotal evidence is nearly worthless, unless a certain drug is universally applauded (2c-I) or universally shit upon (DOx series). Everyone reacts differently to hallucinogens, and the same person reacts differently under different set and setting.

Based on the structure of the drug, I would say it is analogous to psilocybin, which is metabolized to psilocin in vitro. Ten will get you ten thousand that it is a prodrug for psilocin; that is, once it enters the body, it is metabolized to psilocin. That your body can't tell the difference between mushrooms and this, except there should be less nausea and body load due to the other constituent chemicals of the mushrooms that cause these toxic effects. It is a cleaner version of mushrooms. There is NO, and I repeat, NO DIFFERENCE between this chemical and the active chemical in mushrooms once inside the body. It is metabolized to psilocin, 4-HO-DMT, just like psilocybin is.

4-AcO-DMT, once in the body, becomes 4-HO-DMT, psilocin - the active chemical contained in mushrooms.

[robothanded]

Neither of the extractions you did, though, require any sort or special equipment, not found at your local hardware store. I've n,n-DMT(and partake on a regular basis) and 5-me0-dmt myself. A child could do these extractions.

I realize that it converts to psilocybin. But, heroin converts to morphine and there is a world of different in onset.

"there should be less nausea and body load due to the other constituent chemicals of the mushrooms that cause these toxic effects. It is a cleaner version of mushrooms"

That's exactly what I said. Cleaner equates to more euphoria.

Since you've never actually done 4-AcO-DMT, you can speculate at most. Just as I am.

Look on Bluelight. Look at all the reports. I doubt it's just placebo.

[Suboxer]

Why heroin is so different than morphine has more to do with the ROA than anything else. If you shoot it up, the acetyl groups make the chemical much more lipophilic, and thus cross the blood-brain barrier much more quickly. If you EAT heroin, first-pass metabolism converts it to morphine BEFORE it reaches the brain - making it physiologically IDENTICAL to morphine if taken per os. It is my understanding that certain chemicals or proteins within the brain itself cleave the acetyl groups while inside the brain, leaving morphine, 6-monoacetylmorphine, and 3-monoacetylmorphine; heroin itself has a very low affinity for mu-opioid receptors. The difference is only in the amount of time it takes to cross the blood-brain barrier, when taken intravenously.

Unless this 4-AcO-DMT is water-soluble, and you plan on shooting it up, I don't see how there could be any difference between it and psilocin. First-pass metabolism in your gut and liver will convert it to psilocin before it hits your brain. The mind is a strong thing; especially under the influence of psychedelics. I've known many people who smoked "red rock opium" (e.g. Dragon's Blood incense) with weed, and claimed it affected the high. Psilocin is much more psychedelic than weed; expectation influences the experience more than the chemical itself.

The only possible differences will be in 1. the body load and untoward side-effects caused by the other constituents of whole mushrooms, and 2. the come-up time.

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I did my own very unscientific experiment before, on three separate occasions, into the placebo effect (completely free of charge). I gave some over-the-counter Prilosec to two people I was smoking pot with. I claimed it was "Pramazepam," (due to the P on the pill), and both claimed a distinct benzo feeling to the high, and one passed out promptly. These were two daily smokers with quite a weed tolerance. One other time, I gave someone who was freaking out on weed a blue-food-coloring soaked antacid, a diazepam 10. All he said was, "damn, this valium is big." he promptly calmed down (long before the actual medication could have entered circulation), and passed out shortly after.

The third deserves a paragraph of its own.

I took a keg of O'Douls to to frat party, after noticing how many of the guys started getting aggressive and girls slutty and clingy, half-way through their first beer, long before any CNS effects of alcohol could be noted. It is duly noted that EVERY LAST PERSON at the party, beyond me and my accomplice, aware of the contents of the wayward keg, proceeded to get smashed. Aggressive, beer goggles, stripping, and promiscuity abounded at truly drunken levels. Some were even stumbling. One puked. Me and my mate chuckled at their delusion; this also confirmed another long-held belief I had previously hypothesized - alcohol does not make a person as uninhibited as they act when under its influence - the belief that alcohol makes one uninhibited is responsible for the majority of its effects, its users comfortable in the fact they believe they can absolve themselves of any wrong, any sin, or any mistake committed while under its influence, using the time-testedmea culpa: "I was drunk."

I doubted this would work as people had many beers, and knowing that the effects of heavy liquor consumption are inevitable, incontravertible, and uncontrollable, I figured people would wise up after their third or fourth, noticing the fact they weren't getting drunker. I don't know if this would fly with more experienced drinkers, or in a different setting.

[robothanded]

"Unless this 4-AcO-DMT is water-soluble"

Well, the fumerate, which is what generally circulates primarily because it's the most stable, isn't water soluble. But, it's not to say you can't convert it to it's HCL salt form for injecting, which I think has been done.. don't quote me on that, which is what produces the most profoundly different effects.

I'm getting the fumerate, and plan on keeping that way for storage.

I don't doubt the power of placebo, either. I have nothing as evidence because I've never taken it yet. I've only the many accounts, mainly over at bluelight, that, it is, indeed a bit different.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=342544
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=365088

[baltiland87]

I have tried 4-AcO-DMT many times, having taken it orally, nasally, and rectally, it is now one of my favorite chems. Ranking right up their with Mescaline, LSD, 2c-e, DMT, and MDXx IMO. Also, I know people that have had pure 4-HO-DMT and also 4-AcO-DMT, they have all said that their is a difference in effects, though not massively different their is less anxiety and the body buzz seems to be greater, all I know is that 15mg's administered rectally in a liquid carrier gives me some of the most amazing experiences I've ever had. Honestly, I use this instead of mushrooms 3 out of 4 times, mushrooms still have something extra that I like occasionally, but only when I want to completely fuck my mind and hit the reset button, so to speak. Have a good time trying it out, I've only seen a handful of people who don't like psilocetin and a truckload who love it. Good luck and take care.

[Spaazkaz]

SWIM is really considering making the leap on this one... don't see it around too often at rc vendors and hear many good things.

Would you care to report back if you know of anyone who decides to follow through, 'robothanded'? Given the rarity of the chem and it being in its fumerate form and the timing of your post, im just guessing we share a similar source.

Question about this "fumerate" word... Is it all generally always/going to be sold in fumerate form? I mean how fast does the HCL break down??

Anymore insight from people with any experience would be great! And thank you very much fellers for the detailed explanations and comparisons above (db, Suboxer, baltiland87)!

peace and BE SAFE!
-spaz
oh and THANKS!