Has methadone helped your life?

[renton]

Hey I thought I would take a poll to see if methadone helps people addicted to opiates lead a normal, productfull life. Most people I've met who take it seem to do pretty good aslong as there at a good dose. Does it make you feel sort of out of it or tired all day or does it enable you to do the things you want without having to worry about scoring so you dont go into wd? And is buprenorphine as good in your opinion? Sorry for all the questions but this is something I've been researching as I live in Vancouver which has the most heroin addicts in Canada and the methadone program is very good here and seems to help allot of people on the whole.

[ShaneFlipside]

My buddy swim refuses to get on a methadon maintenance, because when he uses it to detox he always notices the immediate malaise and almost depressive affect. He is understandaby adverse to substituting a lifetime of feeling like yuk for that of being on a euphoric plateau.

[Canis aureus]

Me it has helped... I'm junkie from late eighties. Was on bupe and now I'm on methadone. I'm trying to keep my tolerance low, and so is clinic... I'm sick every morning, and hope that they would rise the dose; they aren't likely rising it. But, on the other hand, there is dope which they don't seem to understand: that rising the dose minimizes the risk of using dope.

I must add that I have gotten pretty well though. It is just that rising doses are here SO hard... or getting appropriate dose takes time.

I have decided to stay in in this...

[Coddfish]

It's a tricky question, cause what's 'normal?' And I would say 'fuck no!' and 'I prefer bup.' I don't take done any more, but it really took all ambitions and drives out of me, and put about 60 lbs on me.
didin't realize it till I was off, though.

[opiobsessed]

I'm very strongly considering getting off my suboxone, switching to methadone, however alot of things concern me. I'm also afraid to try new things in life more and more these days, I've had alot go wrong when I tried new things in life and its got me into a holed up nervous wreck.
Wishing I knew the answer before I try something new is even harder because I dont understand alot of times or dont know the right people to talk to sometimes.

I'm hopeing things will work out soon, because lately I've been a wreck, just want opiates, I hope my other doc will understand me and give me some benzo's to calm me down. Only thing keeping me from trying the clinic now is, I have no money and I have bills pileing up.

[freedomclub]

hey when I voted yes that Methadone helps my life it made the percentage 33.3!

[Canis aureus]

I think that both drugs have their advantages, and only time will show which is better to each... to each his own (like it's said)

I was first on high dose of bupe (24mgs) and switched -- or should I say they switched me -- to methadone.

But in any case, I would like to say that bupe is in its best on "low" doses because in those it is mostly agonist, and it is potent, but when one needs doses over 20mgs it becames -- at least to me -- quite sedative, and its agonist properties are kicked back by its antagonist properties... and that feels strange, in best case not so fine. I got much more sedative effects from higfh dose of bupe than I ever have had with metadone. I could not say about methdone what it is after years (from my own experience) because I haven't used it extensive for years -- but I know more than few people who have been on methadone for decades (and successively).

I have used opiates from late eighties -- and also methadone. But I have been in MMT less than six months. Before that I have been on different opiates (or opioids) from heroin to fentanyl and other medical opioids. I have always preferred full agonists and I have rather excessive using profile with morphine and poppy pods (like many here). In relation to those, they feel quite the same as methdone, but they don't endure as long... And thus the methadone has its advantage -- it lasts long and one intake per 24 hours should be enough. With two dosings it still could become ideal, but with one dose, it lasts enough long to keep one in healthy condition... while I would use it twice if that just could be the option. Some say it is less euphoric, but I don't know -- it is or means health to me. It is the lifestyle and my body needs it. I won't feel much euphoria but am healthy and could do work or study... the quality of life is much better with it than with scoring dope and doing things what it involves. For me methadone has given a change to be with my son and do things with him like no other thing has given.

That is much!

[opiobsessed]

Canis, have you noticed any stomach or severe constipation problems while on sub? I am doing horrible lately, dont know what the heck is going on.

I had my whole colon taken out due to severe ulcerative colitis, then a modern reversal surgery, where they hook your intestines up so you can still go like normal like anyone else. Anyway, I've had problems with constipation before on my opiate of choice vicodin, but never near what I'm having now.

I have to drive down to my colon specialist soon, and hope I get some relief soon, because I feel like total shit right now. I copped some vikes for a few day vacation and am currently trying to enjoy them as much as possible right now. But I'm so screwed up, even my sub doctor doesn't understand what's going on, he gave me a script for some laxative slightly stronger than metamucil. Its barely doing anything.

I had a bad reaction to naloxone before, so I keep wondering if I would do much better off on methadone, rather than 24mg sub a day, I cut my sub dose down and that didn't help much.

[Canis aureus]

Yes I had severe cnstipayion with Suboxone, but should I say even more with methadone... I started to eat consciously very much of fibres: carrots, whole grain wheat and all that sort of stuff like that. Beforehands, I almost yielled when I was in toilet... Had to also smoke cigs in toilet (not because of good time but helping to getting something out :p)

[poonwhalla]

I can only say this about done it is a double edged sword that is about it. It is a pretty crazy thing and is its own demond be ready to face another(if you havn

[renton]

So does bupe fill that craving all us opiate users long for, the blisfull relaxation? That's what I am addicted to the most, not the rush but the feeling of contentment and that everything is good. It seems like meth would fill that need better since it acts in a more normal way on the opiate receptors but hey I havent tried either yet so i cant say.

[Canis aureus]

That was the problem with bupe, I craved opioids all the time, and didn't quit drinking habit. Methadone has put down my drinking: I don't drink a beer anymore (just once or less a week). Probably I have gained weight, but I'm rather careless regarding that what I put in my mouth; I should look bit more what I'll eat :p

[Tar_Baby]

That was the problem with bupe, I craved opioids all the time, and didn't quit drinking habit. Methadone has put down my drinking: I don't drink a beer anymore (just once or less a week). Probably I have gained weight, but I'm rather careless regarding that what I put in my mouth; I should look bit more what I'll eat :p

Yeah methadone seems to curb drinking habits as well...did same to me...I loathe alcohol when Im on done..but used to drink quite alot

[MagicMan]

Methadone has SAVED my miserable life as far as I'm concerned. One of the few good things that came out of the Nazi regime... Of course the Nazi chemists who cooked it up named it "Adolfin" back then, in honor of you-know-who...:mad:
When nazism fell (:D) the Yankees took the patent and changed the name to Dolophine and consequently, methadone.

Now, of course I have some petty problems and fights with my clinic, but on the bigger scale of life, I'm SO better off now than I was when I still shot many times a day junk up my arm(or leg, or neck, or wherevever.Like when I shot for a while into the veins on my CHEST. As far as I know, I'm the only one I know who has done that...):o .

[freedomclub]

Dolophine is derived from the Latin word for pain or dolor. Nazi's did invent it, tho.

[Tar_Baby]

Methadone has SAVED my miserable life as far as I'm concerned. One of the few good things that came out of the Nazi regime... Of course the Nazi chemists who cooked it up named it "Adolfin" back then, in honor of you-know-who...:mad:
When nazism fell (:D) the Yankees took the patent and changed the name to Dolophine and consequently, methadone.

Now, of course I have some petty problems and fights with my clinic, but on the bigger scale of life, I'm SO better off now than I was when I still shot many times a day junk up my arm(or leg, or neck, or wherevever.Like when I shot for a while into the veins on my CHEST. As far as I know, I'm the only one I know who has done that...):o .

Yes poppies didnt grow in Germany , at least not enough to supply all the morphine they needed for the wounded..So they had to come up with a chemical substitute...
Methadone is great due to its long half life. There is no other drug that will keep you fixed for up to 72 hrs.
Granted the kick is long and nasty, and I hate some of its side effects ~ mainly the hormone suppresion~ which causes a man in his 20's to have the hormone level of an 85 year old..BUT at least you CAN still function...pipes will work etc. Its odd because it just makes you lose interest...I compare it to trying to eat after just eating an entire pizza to yourself..just unappealing. But its better than being unable to get hard or whatever ( so yah it could be worse)
But then again when I was a junky, I was so busy hustling cash, searching for and fixing dope, I didnt have time to think of sex anyway. As soon as I fixed I couldnt enjoy it because I had to start hustling for the next one~ knowing it would wear off soon. What a shitty cycle and stressful way to live.
Methadone is cost effective ( compared to maintaining heroin habit) and the supply is constant...You no longer gotta dodge narcotics detectives ( not to mention all the regular cops) no longer gotta deal with the occasional "out of pocket..gotta reup ,call back later" the occasional low quality dope...digging for veins..abcesses..being around a bunch of scumbags you really hate and would never talk to if you werent in the heroin scene.
Sure methadone clinics can be a pain, and yes you are switching addictions over. But for people like myself, who are constant relapsers, and know that they probably will need to be maintained on an opiate for life..its a miracle.
I dont think methadone is for everyone. I think people should be over 23, and already tried and failed rehab etc a few times...I dont think first time short term addicts should go on it ( such as folks that have just had a habit for a year or few months..or people that dont have much of a habit like low dose hydrocodone addicts ~ which to me is like curing a headache by shooting oneself with a shotgun)
But for the long term chronic relapsers ~ otherwise hopeless addicts~ its great.
And when you get your dose right, and you stop craving and using, youll get carry out meds and not have to deal with the clinic but once a month or every two weeks.

[Tar_Baby]

Dolophine is derived from the Latin word for pain or dolor. Nazi's did invent it, tho.

Correct. Its a myth that it was named after adolf hitler. Nazis also invented methamphetamine..and the rockets we used for the Appollo missions.
We actually covertly brought many Nazi scientists into America and gave them new identities after the war
( see Operation Paperclip) you can google this and read up its very interesting.

[freedomclub]

"I compare it to trying to eat after just eating an entire pizza to yourself"

I'll give ya that, a little bit anyway. But you have to admit in return that the pizza still looks DELICIOUS, it's just that you're full!

[MagicMan]

Correct. Its a myth that it was named after adolf hitler. Nazis also invented methamphetamine..and the rockets we used for the Appollo missions.
We actually covertly brought many Nazi scientists into America and gave them new identities after the war
( see Operation Paperclip) you can google this and read up its very interesting.

I thought it a myth too, until I saw with my own eyes an chemistry book from the Nazi era, and it identifies "6-dimethylamino-4,4-diphenyl-3-heptanone" as Adolfin. :confused:
I'll post the exact quote when I get the book from the friend I lent it from in the beginning, and I'll double-check my info.
I can't give an vow that what I say is true, and I recognise the fact that it's still possible that it never was named after Hitler, but some proof does exist to prove that it was.

I'll check and get back to this.

[Tar_Baby]

I thought it a myth too, until I saw with my own eyes an chemistry book from the Nazi era, and it identifies "6-dimethylamino-4,4-diphenyl-3-heptanone" as Adolfin. :confused:
I'll post the exact quote when I get the book from the friend I lent it from in the beginning, and I'll double-check my info.
I can't give an vow that what I say is true, and I recognise the fact that it's still possible that it never was named after Hitler, but some proof does exist to prove that it was.

I'll check and get back to this.

You have a nazi era chem book?! Hmm anyway never heard of adolphine ...just dolophine. Then again, I'm merely a layman with alot of time and a comp...and I dont profess to know everything..but have read from multiple sources that it is in fact a myth.
That being said, Ill admit that Im often wrong as are alot of other folks who are sure they are right.

[vanilla_mlkshake2007]

Actually i am stocking up on suboxones I get 90 a month where if I went to a methadone clinic I'd have to go everyday which may or may no help me.There are also 1 hour programs to complete.a total of 5 I believe.It is just much easier to pee in a cup once a month and get 90 pills,which I don't use anyways,not yet but I feel I will be soon the cash is running low and so is the morphine connnections and with no heroin available in my state it looks like I will be starting on my sub stash.The reason I went on the program 9 months ago was so I wouldn't have to deal with a DR threatening to lower my dosage or cut me off or having total control of my intake of subs.for mr the subs do not bind me up in fact they do the total oppisite.I go within an hour after my dose.But there is way to much red tape for methadone and too many programs plus with this being daily and me not having a car the suboxone program is the way to go for me.Nowq its just going to depend on if I have the willpower to get through this which I hope I will.

[Tar_Baby]

Actually i am stocking up on suboxones I get 90 a month where if I went to a methadone clinic I'd have to go everyday which may or may no help me.There are also 1 hour programs to complete.a total of 5 I believe.It is just much easier to pee in a cup once a month and get 90 pills,which I don't use anyways,not yet but I feel I will be soon the cash is running low and so is the morphine connnections and with no heroin available in my state it looks like I will be starting on my sub stash.The reason I went on the program 9 months ago was so I wouldn't have to deal with a DR threatening to lower my dosage or cut me off or having total control of my intake of subs.for mr the subs do not bind me up in fact they do the total oppisite.I go within an hour after my dose.But there is way to much red tape for methadone and too many programs plus with this being daily and me not having a car the suboxone program is the way to go for me.Nowq its just going to depend on if I have the willpower to get through this which I hope I will.


Well, if you cant score morphine that will certainly help. But at least you have a good tool (sub). Perhaps you can save some $$ while you take the subs ( cuz you already have them , right?) And get more subs when they run out or whatever you need to do at that time. I dont have an answer to help you, I wish I did, but Im struggling with dope juswt like you...and I dont wanna be a hypocrite.

[dorje]

I thought done helped back in Boulder because I was an inch away from jail but later the kick almost killed me. I can;t stand the Done because of the WD's

[renton]

It makes you wonder why they use something that is so horrible to come off. I think they like it because they can make you do whatever they want knowing you'll do it so you get your dose.

[Blind Melon]

I've tried Suboxone in the past, and I hated it. It made me tired with a very cloudy head, and not in a good way at all. I got no euphoria and while I was sleepy all day it didn't help me sleep at night. It killed all physical WDs, but my mental urge to use (for the euphoria) was unchanged.

2 weeks ago I got started on Methadone detox. (21 day program) I foolishly choose, when I could have gone for 180 program. But I'm kind of glad, because if I am not able to get back on 'done then I won't have as hard of a time quitting. I found out that I do qualify for MMT in my state. (2 previous, unsuccesful detoxes, severe addiction for over a year, tested positive) I find out on Tuesday if I'll be able to switch from my detox program to MMT. I'm praying that I can. Methadone has been great for me. It allows me to forget about scoring junk and lead a normal life. It regulates my mood, and I sleep very well, and very easily at night. At the proper dosage I have no physical or mental cravings whatsoever. And to me the high is very nice. Very similar to the tea, and I love how I can nod out if I wish, but it isn't forced. It is my favorite opiate for daily consumption, and I've tried quite a few. It's had a very positive effect on my life, is all I can say.

[nick]

Done is used because it comes in a form that's not supposed to be injectable and it has such a long half life that makes a "normal" life easier.
From personal experience done is a lot better than the street grind,but I found it had many nasty side effects.So I was ecstatic to move on to diamorphine.With diamorph I functioned "normally" for 15 years and am now in the process of kicking,hell even thinking of trying Ibogaine.

[trainwrecker]

Methadone has helped me tons for pretty much all the same reasons everyone else said. Saves me tons of money and allows me to function pretty normally. Keeps me out of the pawn shop, and out of jail. You do so much stupid shit when you are on dope just to get more dope. I know I have a constant supply with methadone. And since my clinic never tests for weed I have weekly carries now. It did suck though when I had to go every day.
The sex thing is the worst drawback for sure. It has put me and my wife through some serious trials. And I definatly don't want to be on it forever, but I'm scared as hell to detox. Not scared really, but I just don't even want to think about it.
And it's free, shit, you can't beat free dope.

[nick]

I hear that,about free dope.

[Narkotikon]

I voted no only because I really think my dose was too high. I still believe in maintenance therapy, and would like to give it another go around, just not so high this time. This first time I just felt really sedated and unmovitaved. I mean, I slept 12-14 hours a day and couldn't even make myself take out the trash. But that was 140 milligrams. I understand why the doctor gave me that much, the troughs, the sessions where he asked me how I felt, etc. I just didn't think it was all that great. If and when I do it again, I'm going to stay around 85-90 milligrams, as I felt great at that dose.

[Duckfeet]

Nah, I voted no. And I hear all the reasons. I know where the junky life leads, and I guess in a sense it really is better. I remember once this shrink in the San Antonio VA hospital telling me, this shit was *designed* for people like me.

It's just when I get on it--and I've been on maintenance twice--it's all right at first, but then my body just rebels, all the layaround constipated eat-too-much-icecream crap. I just feel so trapped. I mean I loose interest in shit, it just ain't right.

I mean, if they had any fucking heart, they'ed allow heroin maintenance for longtime junkies who have failed at detox repeatedly, like me. But instead we get these half-baked sickening shit, I swear Talwin is better (not really).

And now the longterm effects of buprenorphine are starting to look pretty weird too, at higher doses...and man, the way the clinics own you, it's a form of prison.

Hell, I'm ranting, I just got off the shit. When I'm on it, I always feel less is more. I know this goes against all junky logic. But I always want to stay at 30-40 mg, when I *am* on maintenance. Yeah, I get sick in the morning, but then I still get a bit of a buzz when it comes on. While I've found that when I go higher than that, that I not only loose that buzz, but that I keep wanting to "up the dose" hoping to find it, and never do...Anyway, I used subs, and got off the shit just about a month ago, and glad I did...

Vancouver had the right idea w/the heroin maintenance...I don't know what happened w/that....

[Narkotikon]

Nah, I voted no. And I hear all the reasons. I know where the junky life leads, and I guess in a sense it really is better. I remember once this shrink in the San Antonio VA hospital telling me, this shit was *designed* for people like me.

It's just when I get on it--and I've been on maintenance twice--it's all right at first, but then my body just rebels, all the layaround constipated eat-too-much-icecream crap. I just feel so trapped. I mean I loose interest in shit, it just ain't right.

I mean, if they had any fucking heart, they'ed allow heroin maintenance for longtime junkies who have failed at detox repeatedly, like me. But instead we get these half-baked sickening shit, I swear Talwin is better (not really).

And now the longterm effects of buprenorphine are starting to look pretty weird too, at higher doses...and man, the way the clinics own you, it's a form of prison.

Hell, I'm ranting, I just got off the shit. When I'm on it, I always feel less is more. I know this goes against all junky logic. But I always want to stay at 30-40 mg, when I *am* on maintenance. Yeah, I get sick in the morning, but then I still get a bit of a buzz when it comes on. While I've found that when I go higher than that, that I not only loose that buzz, but that I keep wanting to "up the dose" hoping to find it, and never do...Anyway, I used subs, and got off the shit just about a month ago, and glad I did...

Vancouver had the right idea w/the heroin maintenance...I don't know what happened w/that....


The last thing I read about the Vancouver heroin MT was that the US was pressuring Canada to stop it, citing the drug war and stuff. I'm not sure if it ever stopped it though.

Yeah, for some reason methadone made me crave sweets really badly, especially ice cream. There were tons of people at the clinic talking about how they were gaining weight from eating too many sweets (ice cream and sweetened kids cereal were the two biggest ones). I think it must have something to do with the fact that sweets release endorphins and that you're just trying to compensate by producing another high, rather than using drugs. At least that's what I concluded for myself. I remember I would dose at about 8:00-8:30, then come home and feel fine until noon, then I'd eat ice cream for lunch or something, then get really tired. I mean, I always got tired after lunch in the afternoon even before methadone, but this was like nodding off you can't control tired. When I didn't eat, it wasn't as bad, so I'm guessing it was the sugar. Also, I just think my dose was too high. The lack of motivation sucked. For me it was like the amotivation that you get when you're seriously depressed. The can't get out of bed, take a shower, do anything kind.

Edit: Oh, the doctor at the clinic prescribed topamax (that neuroleptic that's supposed to help with binge eating) to the women and I guess men, but mainly women, who complained about the weight gain. I never got that, but he had me on lexapro, wellbutrin, provigil, and levothyroxidine (because he was convinved that there was something wrong with my thyroid). I didn't feel like they worked though. Anti-depressants never work for me, the provigil just felt like coffee, all jittery like, and the l-thyrodxidine didn't do anything either.

[freedomclub]

The last thing I read about the Vancouver heroin MT was that the US was pressuring Canada to stop it, citing the drug war and stuff. I'm not sure if it ever stopped it though.

Yeah, for some reason methadone made me crave sweets really badly, especially ice cream. There were tons of people at the clinic talking about how they were gaining weight from eating too many sweets (ice cream and sweetened kids cereal were the two biggest ones). I think it must have something to do with the fact that sweets release endorphins and that you're just trying to compensate by producing another high, rather than using drugs. At least that's what I concluded for myself. I remember I would dose at about 8:00-8:30, then come home and feel fine until noon, then I'd eat ice cream for lunch or something, then get really tired. I mean, I always got tired after lunch in the afternoon even before methadone, but this was like nodding off you can't control tired. When I didn't eat, it wasn't as bad, so I'm guessing it was the sugar. Also, I just think my dose was too high. The lack of motivation sucked. For me it was like the amotivation that you get when you're seriously depressed. The can't get out of bed, take a shower, do anything kind.

Edit: Oh, the doctor at the clinic prescribed topamax (that neuroleptic that's supposed to help with binge eating) to the women and I guess men, but mainly women, who complained about the weight gain. I never got that, but he had me on lexapro, wellbutrin, provigil, and levothyroxidine (because he was convinved that there was something wrong with my thyroid). I didn't feel like they worked though. Anti-depressants never work for me, the provigil just felt like coffee, all jittery like, and the l-thyrodxidine didn't do anything either.


Vitadone! 3 times a day, no sweets cravings, no constipation, less sweating.

[Narkotikon]

Vitadone! 3 times a day, no sweets cravings, no constipation, less sweating.

Is this something you've taken yourself, or are you just reporting it? I'm going to do a search for it now. It seems interesting. Yeah, I wish there were more MT options here. Methadone was just strange to me. I'm very functional on morphine and other opiates. Very sociable, outgoing, am able to function, etc. Methadone just made me depressed and amotivational.

Edit: Oh, so it's a nutritional supplement. I've never even heard of it. Seems interesting.

[Duckfeet]

The last thing I read about the Vancouver heroin MT was that the US was pressuring Canada to stop it, citing the drug war and stuff. I'm not sure if it ever stopped it though.

Yeah, for some reason methadone made me crave sweets really badly, especially ice cream. There were tons of people at the clinic talking about how they were gaining weight from eating too many sweets (ice cream and sweetened kids cereal were the two biggest ones). I think it must have something to do with the fact that sweets release endorphins and that you're just trying to compensate by producing another high, rather than using drugs. At least that's what I concluded for myself. I remember I would dose at about 8:00-8:30, then come home and feel fine until noon, then I'd eat ice cream for lunch or something, then get really tired. I mean, I always got tired after lunch in the afternoon even before methadone, but this was like nodding off you can't control tired. When I didn't eat, it wasn't as bad, so I'm guessing it was the sugar. Also, I just think my dose was too high. The lack of motivation sucked. For me it was like the amotivation that you get when you're seriously depressed. The can't get out of bed, take a shower, do anything kind.

<snip>

.


Yeah, that, the eating sweets, and the constipation, were too much for me. No matter what I intended, I *had* to get my donuts in the morning, then pint of ice cream in the evening. And I'm pretty healthy, but I knew it wouldn't last, so I got off it after a couple months, again...
I'd get on heroin maintenance, if I could. I don't kid myself. I've fought this shit forever, and I've given in, and got on the 'done a couple times, like I said...but no matter what anybody says, I just *know* something isn't right. Something is just gone, for me. But others are cool with it, and I know the street life, fuck. I never knock people who get on it, because we just don't have many good choices. I just got off a few weeks of subutex, to get off methadone. I'd probably get on sub maint, if I had to do one or the other. Subutex, to me, is a lot like methadone, in the sense that less is more. I was much happier on 4mg, than I was on 12mg, seemed to feel it more. But buprenorphine too, seems to have longterm really wierd shit that happens, well anyway, I did my last half of a 2mg sub, this morning, so we'll see how happy I am in a day or too....I know like methadone, sub also has long half like, so right about the time I think I'm done, is right when I'll start to kick... :-(

[nick]

Wow Man,didn't realise I wasn't the only guy turkeying.Let us know how you go.

[Duckfeet]

Wow Man,didn't realise I wasn't the only guy turkeying.Let us know how you go.


You might have been talking to Nick, but anyway, my own attempt failed: I made it a couple of days, but subs had a lot more withdrawal symptoms than I expected, and I just don't think I personally was that motivated, and I need a lot of motivation, before I'm successful.

But by day two, second time I tried kicking subs, I threw the towel in, and did the ER thing I'd posted, and got the D, and amazingly, a bunch of perks, which I did *not* expect, since hydros are the big thing at VA's now...

so I just did the perks this morning, and doubt I'll be CT'ing it any time soon. I wonder if you have an income, if you can be from another country and get on H maint, anywhere...I think I'll do a post on that


Anyway, *Nick*, if you are reading this, and are still plugging away, best wishes to you!

Duckfeet
4 perks past coffee

[prettypoppy]

Methadone has not just helped my life, it has literally SAVED my life! I had a 20 year history of Rx opioid and heroin addiction, and had been to 10 rehabs and several trips to jail and prison based rehabs as well (for Rx fraud), and had tried every method known to man to get and stay clean, but every time, abstinence left me awash with insatiable cravings, depression, and despair. I know now that I had a fucked up endorphin system, probably from birth, which I made worse (while attempting to medicate it) with years of short term opioid abuse. Methadone has restored my brain chemistry to normal function, and I know now that it will likely need to be a chronic, lifelong med for me, much like insulin for a diabetic. Sure, there are side effects, but none worse than my life of active addiction, I can say that!

[insaneike]

From what I've seen if you want to get clean for GOOD, go with bupe. None that done shit. Cause form allll the junkie friends i've had(from late '80s till recently) all said that methadone WD is somewhat worse than smack WD. AS done WD lasts nearly a whole month, while smack WDs last arond a week(for the worst of both)... and if you go to done for life you're just trading one addiction for another, but without the 'fun'. Unless of course you don't have a steady connect and go through WDs regularly, thats the only reason i personaly see to go the done route...

but from all the ppl i've seen in this boat bupe is the hands down best way to go if you truly wanna get clean for good!

I just figured I'd give the imput from the ppl i've tlaked to LOCALY. Now i notice most of u guys are nothing like the junkies I know. and I've never had to go into no detox so... as I'm ins evere chronic pain and on opis legaly.

later

[freedomclub]

Methadone has not just helped my life, it has literally SAVED my life! I had a 20 year history of Rx opioid and heroin addiction, and had been to 10 rehabs and several trips to jail and prison based rehabs as well (for Rx fraud), and had tried every method known to man to get and stay clean, but every time, abstinence left me awash with insatiable cravings, depression, and despair. I know now that I had a fucked up endorphin system, probably from birth, which I made worse (while attempting to medicate it) with years of short term opioid abuse. Methadone has restored my brain chemistry to normal function, and I know now that it will likely need to be a chronic, lifelong med for me, much like insulin for a diabetic. Sure, there are side effects, but none worse than my life of active addiction, I can say that!



I just wanted to agree with ya. Methadone has giving me a new lease on life as well. Whenever I'm without opiates the depression is so intense it isn't worth it.

[Duckfeet]

Hell, I had hard time kicking the subs, when I got down to 1mg, and dropped to zero...so after a couple of days of I *that* I'm back on mmt. And right now I like it all right, but I know, no matter what I say, seems like after a while I feel trapped, want off it. A lot of my friends suggest I go to higher doses, that that is the solution, but for me, I prefer to stay at the lower doses--I'm at 30mg--since I get sick in the mornings a bit, but at lower doses I alway still get a lift, when it hits me...I don't know. I know I got friends on here, I talk to on other forum, so I don't want to bore them with same thing I always say, but we'll see. Bigger waves today, I had on my old fins, had a good time, then made me some California imitation lowrent wannabe sausage Jambalaya, so I'll survive, I been doing it this long :-) Drugs and cajun food, that is ;-)

[freedomclub]

Drugs and cajun food, that is ;-)


Ca cest bon!

[prettypoppy]

and if you go to done for life you're just trading one addiction for another, but without the 'fun'

This is a very very common misconception about methadone. First of all, methadone IS a substitute, but NOT for heroin. It is a substitute for the NATURAL ENDORPHINS we have destroyed by using opioids for many many years. Many long term opioid users have suppressed their natural opiates (endorphins) to the point that no matter how long they remain abstinent, they will never resume normal production, and as a result, the person experiences severe depression, irritability, lethargy, cravings, etc. Methadone restores the brain chemistry to normal, like insulin therapy restores a diabetic's blood glocose to normal because their pancreas no longer produces it. Methadone is a much better choice for this than short acting opioids, because of its long half life and very slow rate of tolerance, and the lack of a potent "high", while annoying to some, does make it easier to have a normal life. Many patients will need to be maintained on an exogenous opioid for life, just as with many chronic diseases that require medications for life.

Saying that it is just trading one addiction for another is ludicrous if you compare the two outcomes. When I was using heroin and hydrocodone, I was constantly obsessed with the drug and getting more, I picked at my skin until I looked like I had leprosy, I broke laws, lied, cheated and stole, drove in a highly intoxicated state, rarely ate or slept properly, and could not hold any kind of a job. On methadone, I look much better, eat and sleep correctly, hold a full time job, care for my family, pay my bills, have no need to steal, lie or cheat, and can drive safely. In no way does this look like the addiction I "traded" it for. While it is true that I am dependent upon methadone, it is also true that most people who are on medications for chronic conditions would sicken and possibly die in short order without them--but that doesn't mean they should not take them! We are all dependent on lots of things--water, food, shelter, air, clothing, etc. Being dependent upon a medication that restores your brain chemistry to normal functioning is a blessing to those who truly need it, not a curse. It's all in how you choose to look at it.

[geanine.aurora]

Methadone and Bup can be great. I guess I have a problem with having to go to a clinic at first daily and all the supervision. Why can't it be done privately and given out for at least a week at a time? I was on Methadone last 22yrs ago at that time the doses were kept low. 40mg maybe 60. Problem with the clinic was we would all hook up and shoot through our dose. At 40 mg you truelly can still do that. I found after a short while on Methadone I just felt normal and I craved getting on the nod so after a couple of years on maintaince got kicked off for dirties. And man they would kick you off quick! Recently I have had the Pleasure? of experiencing Bup. I had been taking Dillies and hydros at home and in the hopsital for 6 mo and I was a fraid I would relapse into a screaming addiction. I started with 24mg Sub a day and tapered down to 2-3mg a day in 4 months. Then just jumped off! I was miserable. Couldn't eat, move, etc I was highly motivated to quit, but 5 or so days later started back in with the hydros and percs. I have a chronic pain syndrome, back as an addict I find this hard to believe. I just wnt through 90 10/500 hydrs and 120 10/325 perc in 20 days and I'm almost 2 days out. I'm doing okay amazingly. I can't believe I went through those two scripts that fast! No more percs for 2 weeks. My husband said call the doctor and tell him. I doubt my husband realizes that the percs were just filled on the 25th and that the dr should have no reason to refill. This is a fairly new doc and he specifically said. I will not fill this early and had me fill out a pain contract.
So anyway back to Methadone and Bup. I think they can both be great for providing stabilty. I think they may be better for just long term and I think sub is probably better at lower 2-4 mg doses.

[prettypoppy]

Methadone and Bup can be great. I guess I have a problem with having to go to a clinic at first daily and all the supervision. Why can't it be done privately and given out for at least a week at a time? I was on Methadone last 22yrs ago at that time the doses were kept low. 40mg maybe 60. Problem with the clinic was we would all hook up and shoot through our dose. At 40 mg you truelly can still do that. I found after a short while on Methadone I just felt normal and I craved getting on the nod so after a couple of years on maintaince got kicked off for dirties. And man they would kick you off quick! .


I can see why going daily at first is a good idea. Most addicts just arriving at a clinic are not stable enough to deal with a bunch of extremely potent methadone takehomes. They are trying to stabilize you, and they need to see you regularly to judge your reaction, if you need more, less, are still using, etc. Once you are stabilized, then you can start getting TH doses. I only go once every 2 weeks now--takes 5 minutes.

And of course you guys were still using on doses like that! That is how MMT gets a bad name. A recent study from Scotland claimed that "MMT only works for 3%". They based this on how many people were clean from ALL drugs INCLUDING methadone after 3 years! That is like saying insulin does not work because most diabetics are still on insulin 3 years later! And, the majority of UK patients are massively underdosed (about 50mg) so of course they continue to use other drugs. It is really amazing what an adequate dose will do.

Many people on MMT find themselves nodding during the day and they blame it on too high a dose, when in reality their dose is too low. This makes them unable to sleep well at night as it wears off. Then, after they dose in the AM, they feel better and so are able to sleep, and their exhaustion kicks in and they nod off. A higher dose can actually help with this.

[remybur12]

Methadone has helped me a lot but I stoped taking my prescription about 3 months ago and started using H again. So I have all of these 40mg methadones setting around.

[flipside]

When I was on MMT to keep away from the H ( long before I had CP issues) I switched from done to LAAM. For me it was night and day. I was not as sedated, and felt more functional.

Plus the idea of going to the clinic 3x a week and not having to dose myself daily(even with take homes on done) was more appealeing to me.

it just felt like I had become a slave to another drug, the clinic was my dealer, albeit it did allow me to return to work and to get away from the dope scene for 3 years.

When it was time to kick ( due to insurance being lost) I wished I had never heard of the stuff, and was right back on H.

That's just me though. I never had any intention of being on done for life, but know many who did and are 13years + who lead full productive lives.

Whoever said it's a double edged sword said it best.

[stick+lick]

Whoever said it's a double edged sword said it best.

YEah but isn't EVERYTHING in this life?

And as far as meds go there are always things that are good and things that are really BAD. All that really matter is does it make your life BETTER or WORSE? Some people will undeniably say that their life was worse ON DONE than on dope, even. But the problem comes when people start comparing their lives on methadone to that of "normal" people. I have to go to the clinic, I can't shit for three days, I have to pay all this money.....it's pointless because we will NEVER be normal people.

If you compare your life on methadone to that of when you where on dope or when you were completely clean...and life on methadone is by far the best you've had it in a long time than the choice is easy. It's when you start to think you can get off it and live life without that "want" that you get in trouble. ALSO, when your on it and life doesn't feel any better than it was before--then there is no point.

[HeidiW]

Dolophine means end pain.

[Somniferous]

Methadone lasts a long time. That's what's good about it. I tend to notice more of the adverse effects of opiates are more pronounced in methadone (feeling really hot, nausea, constipation). It takes quite a while to fully kick in compared to other things. I think that's why people sometimes tend to abandon methadone therapy for their DOC.

[HeidiW]

If I'm recalling the literature correctly, methadone is active in your system for 96 hours, very long-acting.

[tui]

It's not a quick fix. First year on methadone I used heroin every day too. They kept cranking my dose, telling me not to worry, I just wasn't dosed high enough.

At 95mgs I was still shooting a quarter of heroin a day. Then, I found coke. Yay! I could feel something!!!

So coke it was... Made me forget all about heroin (too expensive to maintain two habits)... And I was still on the 'done so no sicklyness...

It wasn't until I changed my environment... and literally shifted a hemisphere away from my dealers that I stopped using coke...

Coke (intravenously) makes you fucking mad. I was scared of myself.

And so, for the past three months it's been daily visits to the pharmacy and reducing my 'done like hell.

But now I'm all reduced out. And free.

True story.

t

[tui]

If heroin was free, that would be far better than methadone on a daily basis. Physically, mentally, emotionally... and way more fun for the masses.

t

[dannydanko420]

I'm a chronic pain patient and since i've been on methadone I've noticed that it has helped me so much. I'm able to get up outta bed and live a semi-normal life. For 5yrs I've been searching n searching for one pill that will take my pain away so I can stop being a damn hermit crab and get out so i can have some fun and socialize. Ever since I've hurt my back I havent been able to do the shit I use to do. I havent been able to get out of my house to visit friends for so long. I've been prescribed all kinds of shit and when I got put on oxy I got addicted to it quick. That was the pill I was looking for cuz it took my pain away completely. Even before I got it prescribed to me I was snorting it up everyday, I couldnt get out of bed without it. When I realized I was getting addicted to it my doc suddenly cut me off from it, so in a way that was good for me but on the other hand I went thru horrible withdrawls on n off for like a month 1/2 . I finally went to the doc.'s again and told him I didnt want to be on the Oxycontin anymore and that it was too expensive, like $400 a month, he put me on Methadone. Now I'm able to do everything I used to do. I've been going out a lot more, socializing a lot more. I'm able to do what a 20yr old would normally do. For 5 fuckin yrs I've been stuck up in the house cuz of my pain. I would definitely recomend Methadone for chronic pain patients cuz I'm only on 40mg a day and when I wake up the next day my pain level is still at like a 4 instead of a 10 like it usually is. It's pain relief for the whole day. Methadone has completely turn my life around back to wat it use to be. The only thing I'm scared about is coming off of it when and if I need to.

[Majortom]

It helped me to finish my studies for 2 and half years and the rest went gone by fixing but If we had meth legally in my country I d have used it instead.
:music2::music2:
for the last two days I start to write a reply or pm to someone I couldn't finished it because of nodding.

Yes thats it I did itttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

[Inspektahdek]

The last thing I read about the Vancouver heroin MT was that the US was pressuring Canada to stop it, citing the drug war and stuff. I'm not sure if it ever stopped it though.

Yeah, for some reason methadone made me crave sweets really badly, especially ice cream. There were tons of people at the clinic talking about how they were gaining weight from eating too many sweets (ice cream and sweetened kids cereal were the two biggest ones). I think it must have something to do with the fact that sweets release endorphins and that you're just trying to compensate by producing another high, rather than using drugs. At least that's what I concluded for myself. I remember I would dose at about 8:00-8:30, then come home and feel fine until noon, then I'd eat ice cream for lunch or something, then get really tired. I mean, I always got tired after lunch in the afternoon even before methadone, but this was like nodding off you can't control tired. When I didn't eat, it wasn't as bad, so I'm guessing it was the sugar. Also, I just think my dose was too high. The lack of motivation sucked. For me it was like the amotivation that you get when you're seriously depressed. The can't get out of bed, take a shower, do anything kind.

Edit: Oh, the doctor at the clinic prescribed topamax (that neuroleptic that's supposed to help with binge eating) to the women and I guess men, but mainly women, who complained about the weight gain. I never got that, but he had me on lexapro, wellbutrin, provigil, and levothyroxidine (because he was convinved that there was something wrong with my thyroid). I didn't feel like they worked though. Anti-depressants never work for me, the provigil just felt like coffee, all jittery like, and the l-thyrodxidine didn't do anything either.


I think methadone lowers your glucose/sugar level kinda thing if I'm correct. I recall the same effects on myself and it's kind of like a pseudo diabetic effect.

[sweetdreams]

i have to say that it did help my life get back on track the thing I DONT like is the clinic that i attend!!! Thhat is the problem. There is so much riff raff goin on there that it isnt even funny! I used to go and dose in the morning but due to al the bullshit i changed my dosing time to later on in the day. That seemed to help a little. But there still are so many rules and regualtions you have to follow when you go on the clinic. Like now as of the end of this month NO BENZOS AT ALL!!!!! so who knows what i am gonna do. i told my counselor to find me a rehab to get me off the methadone then! cause i want to take my benzos! I need then for anxiety, see at my clinic we dont even have a REAL dr! she is a nurse practionion( whatever that is) so they think they can just make you stop taking your meidcations just like that!? They dont care about you, sometimes i feel like all the clinic cares about is the money that they get from the county and from the insurance! Seriously!!!! That is pretty sad. It used to be a good place to go but not anymore, Imean shit you can buy almost any drug right outside the door of the place! That is when I would say its getting bad!!!

[tui]

Vancouver had the right idea w/the heroin maintenance...I don't know what happened w/that....

they have it in montreal,
and in sydney too (so i hear)
t

[renton]

I didn't expect so many replies to this question. It seems that the response you get from people actually taking methadone is more positive than the people who just know about it. I'm just suprised they haven't come up with a longer acting or safer way of dispensing it so that people can go to the clinics less often and not have the docs worrying about overdoses. A number of people have OD on methadone here so I can see why they like to see the person take it. One thing is for sure it's way different than any other opiate, my friends mom had horrible cancer that was in her bones and spread to her brain so she was in constant pain and the morphine worked but was hard for her to dose right and made her into a zombie. When they put her on methadone it made a big differance, she was more clear headed and had better pain control too boot.

[i8op8s]

I'm just suprised they haven't come up with a longer acting or safer way of dispensing it so that people can go to the clinics less often

I read that they had a maintenance program called LAAM, which was supposed to hold you for like 2-3 days "I think"....But i read it was giving people heart complications.....i dont know if they still use it....You should look it up..They have a forum on opiophile dedicated to it....

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

Done has helped me kick a lonng Norco habit and I'm thankful for it. Using it wisely and in low doses is important.

[Duckfeet]

yeah, I'm all for heroin maint, but other than Vancouver, they're all kind of far away, and not a sure thing. I got on this board in the first place, looking for H Maint., and Nick helped me a lot, gave me hope.

I know this is an old thread, and I was always the first one to bash methadone, know all the downsides, and really did try to get up to Vancouver a few months ago, on the odd chance I could get on the H program, which was still--apparently--taking people.

but I wasn't allowed in country, because of felony convictions, so came home, and got *seriously* strung out on tar, which, to me, isn't as good as white dope.

So, I have to fess up, that right now, where I sit, I'm pretty grateful for methadone. I'm on 90mg, and I know all the problems, but still, it's what made me feel human again, and got me back on here, and bodysurfing and swimming, so I"ve had to reevaluate, and say right now, methadone is doing this old boy good...what I had become, up to 2 grams of tar--at 60 bucks a g--a day, was doing me in, and would have ended in jail, since I couldn't cut down or stop, not really...

[prettypoppy]

You're on 90 now, Duck? I thought it was 80? But anyhow, if so, I think that's great. I think you will find that if you "give it it's head", like you do with a horse, lol, it will work for ya!

[Duckfeet]

whoops! yer rite! I'm on 80mg...Must be bragging, trying to hang w/the hardcases ;-)



You're on 90 now, Duck? I thought it was 80? But anyhow, if so, I think that's great. I think you will find that if you "give it it's head", like you do with a horse, lol, it will work for ya!

[30_Units]

I have to say it has.

The past year or so of being 'on' was just a series of missteps and bad decisions. Benzo addictions in the midsts of opioid addictions in the midsts of overdoses of both of them and withdrawl and jail and generally doing everything in my ability to fuck up my quality of life.

This has put some routine back into my life, and even if i'm shackled to the clinic, it's not so bad. I have a good councilor and they're compassionate enough to not get aggravated with. I'm not od'ing anymore. I'm not completely shitty to my family and friends because I'm either sick, or copping, or banging, or nodding all the time anymore. I feel remarkabley stable and came out of a pretty severe depression, with little to no relapse of symptoms. I can speak without getting pissed, as i pretty much did always when junked, and goddamn, i just feel dandy.

I feel good about myself and the decision to get on mmt. I died several times (just for a few seconds) this last time i was on, and I'm not doing that anymore. I see that as a positive. I'm off benzos, also a positive. I can do all the things that I was medicating for with tons of drugs, now, sans all but one of them. very positive.

Certainly getting off is going to be a challenge, But that's part of life. I trust in my clinic and the people I've talked to coming off, that they watch and do the best they can with what the situation is- kicking a very long halflife'd opioid.

so, yeah. I'm glad.

[candy]

Methadone has helped me and as someone who had tried just about everything to get clean, Methadone has been the one treatment that has kept me clean off of H for the longest. I had a few mishaps recently and it was more of a situation of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, something I knew was going to pull the trigger so to speak.

Whatever works for you! For some it is Subs and others Methadone and others rehab. Regardless of what it is, if your main goal is to get off of H and you know the pros and cons and get all the info you need to make an informed decision, then your doing the right treatment for you.

Everyone is going to have an opinion and there are those who swear by subs and those who swear it is methadone that has helped.
If your life has become better on subs and you are off the H, great! If methadone has made life better for you and your doing well and off the H, great!
But be informed and get the info you need from sources you can trust and from those that have had experience with subs and methadone.

And know that most of us rarely get clean the first time around. It may take a few times, it may take 20 times, but if being clean from H is what you want, you will get it right.

Most I knew, tried to sway me off of Methadone, but it has worked best for me and I don't look at my few times using H as failure, just part of being a dope fiend. This is a life long in my opinion and I am just going to do what I can for today and hope tomorrow I do the same.

I have had the experience to work with others who use professionally at needle exchanges, research projects, passing out a free lunch on skid row and the one thing that has stuck with me is that is a tough fucking battle dealing with opiate addiction. And if Methadone helps you, your one step further into fighting that battle.

[30_Units]

That's a really sound fuckin perspective you've got there candy. thumbs up with that.

[dirtdog]

doesnt help when u wanna get high.

[OhJoy]

My buddy swim refuses to get on a methadon maintenance, because when he uses it to detox he always notices the immediate malaise and almost depressive affect. He is understandaby adverse to substituting a lifetime of feeling like yuk for that of being on a euphoric plateau.

Yes, complete malaise, depression and totally lethargic. That in no way takes my need for real opies away.

Note - She meant to post this about sub, not methadone.

[tptptp]

Yes, complete malaise, depression and totally lethargic. That in no way takes my need for real opies away.

That's really confusing?? I know you've tried bupe but last I've heard you just take hydro right? You tried methadone to detox off?! What dose were you at? That's not how most people feel on a decent dose. Detoxing off/getting sick and maintaining are quite different too. The original posst was over a year ago too....really confused.

[rachamim18]

Well, it certainly has allowed me to live a very stable life for most of the 23 years I had spent on it. I am so glad to be off of it though figuring that I" am now addicted to morphine, licitly thoguh, it is not much of an actual improvement save for occaisonal euphoria. It is a trade off though for having to dose every 8 hours (supposed to be 6 so I do have discomfort even with this regimen) as opposed to on ce every day, or even once every 3 days in a bind.

[prettypoppy]

And certainly not everyone feels depressed or has malaise on methadone. I have been on a fairly high dose (240mg) for 3 years now and I feel fine, and I know many others who do as well. Not to negate the feelings of others--just saying it is not an "across the board" thing that it causes this. I don't feel much of anything in the way of euphoria, but somehow I am now ok with that, where I wasn't before.

[Canis aureus]

I feel very good on methadone. Not euphoric, but just like I hadn't taken anything.

If I haven't taken anything I wouldn't feel good; I would feel like shit instead. And I have taken opiates since later part of eighties... So for me methadone is really, really good stability (plus I mostly used illicit opiates before methadone...)

[IceCold]

I take methadone mostly during the week because I am so busy with school and work that I pretty much don't have time to go cop dope at all. Also methadone is cheaper than dope and saves me a lot of money so I can get high on the weekend and still afford other things in life. Also it keeps my tolerance done because i purposely take a low dose that is just enough to keep me well. So when I actually do dope on the weekends or whatever I can actually get high off of a reasonably priced amount.

[Duckfeet]

I'm on methadone, and fairly glad of it. I'd rather be on nothing, maybe the occasional shot of dope. But I don't work that way...when it's available, I tend to either not do it at all, or get all strung out. Been like that forever. Methadone, I think is largely a learning process. To learn what methadone can and cannot do for you, and what you can do about the side effects. Worst one for me is constipation. Hardest thing for me to deal with, is the sort of letdown that happens after the first few weeks. It appears like depression, but I think it's just getting back to normal, after the first few weeks when euphoria comes with the dose. Eventually the body adjusts, and I dont' get the euphoria anymore, tho I am more active during the day, after taking dose.

Hardest thing for me is simply to make consistent decisions with regard methadone, when it is more typical of me to get on, love it, then hate it, then run away, get off it. Kind of dope fiend behavior. The other thing is to sort thru all the information, so much of it which is conflicting, and learn to seperate myths from reality. I'm still in the process of doing that. I don't think methadone is a wonder drug. I was reasonably happy sober, and so I don't think I have EDS, and so for me, it is a constant struggle not to want to detox off methadone, and try--one more time--to get off methadone altogether. I'm trying now to work the PM angle more. I think if I could get a doc to perscribe me enough strong opiates, I'd wean myself off of methadone, as it's too difficult for me to convince myself that it isn't the methadone that has brought on the depression and aches in joints...and to go up, just goes against my common sense, even tho others, with problems, have found that going up has helped them.

So I'm still learning, still irritated we don't have at least trials of heroin maintenance in this country...

[SurfRat]

So I'm still learning, still irritated we don't have at least trials of heroin maintenance in this country...

That may change someday, but the politics are so backwards on this. :(

That Heroin is said to have "no medical utility" in the U.S.A. Because politicians circumvented science and medicine. Is ridiculous. At the time of the Harrison Act, Heroin was the best painkiller in existence, and they were arresting doctors for prescribing it. So it makes no sense. A tragedy and a crime for all the pain and suffering the legal process has been responsible for in this regard.

Maybe after the EU and Canada have been able to document their success that is so obvious people over here have to pay attention...

[Beautifully_Broken]

It's a tricky question, cause what's 'normal?' And I would say 'fuck no!' and 'I prefer bup.' I don't take done any more, but it really took all ambitions and drives out of me, and put about 60 lbs on me.
didin't realize it till I

im thinkin of switchin to suboxone judst so i can try and start to get this weight off!!! that and my clinic is goin to 13 dollars a day, whichi i cant afford

[MPVT]

I've been on methadone for 5+ years.I started out at 400mgs and stayed there for the first 3 years until I could heal enough upstairs so to speak.I'm now at 230mgs and I'll probably stay there for now as I have both chronic pain and addiction to control.
I spent 23 years of hell before getting on methadone!! I was down to 123lbs on a 5'10" frame and I was depressed so badly I couldn't or wouldn't get off the couch except to go to the bathroom or score.I hated everyone and everything.
All of that changed when I got on methadone!!! So for me it's been a lifesaver as I up to 185lbs which is were I should be and I stay away from the couch until nighttime.Have a good one......Dave

[L0VE]

It's hard to answer this. It helped me so much when I was on it. I was myself again and I just can't even explain it. But now that I on my 3rd day without it, after being on it for 8 months, the withdrawals are horrid and it emotionally fucks with your head in a way that oxycontin doesn't. The withdrawls if your lucky I've heard last for a month to months!

[L0VE]

I thought it a myth too, until I saw with my own eyes an chemistry book from the Nazi era, and it identifies "6-dimethylamino-4,4-diphenyl-3-heptanone" as Adolfin. :confused:
I'll post the exact quote when I get the book from the friend I lent it from in the beginning, and I'll double-check my info.
I can't give an vow that what I say is true, and I recognise the fact that it's still possible that it never was named after Hitler, but some proof does exist to prove that it was.

I'll check and get back to this.

Well that would explain the withdrawals. ;)

Nah, I voted no. And I hear all the reasons. I know where the junky life leads, and I guess in a sense it really is better. I remember once this shrink in the San Antonio VA hospital telling me, this shit was *designed* for people like me.

It's just when I get on it--and I've been on maintenance twice--it's all right at first, but then my body just rebels, all the layaround constipated eat-too-much-icecream crap. I just feel so trapped. I mean I loose interest in shit, it just ain't right.

I mean, if they had any fucking heart, they'ed allow heroin maintenance for longtime junkies who have failed at detox repeatedly, like me. But instead we get these half-baked sickening shit, I swear Talwin is better (not really).

And now the longterm effects of buprenorphine are starting to look pretty weird too, at higher doses...and man, the way the clinics own you, it's a form of prison.

Hell, I'm ranting, I just got off the shit. When I'm on it, I always feel less is more. I know this goes against all junky logic. But I always want to stay at 30-40 mg, when I *am* on maintenance. Yeah, I get sick in the morning, but then I still get a bit of a buzz when it comes on. While I've found that when I go higher than that, that I not only loose that buzz, but that I keep wanting to "up the dose" hoping to find it, and never do...Anyway, I used subs, and got off the shit just about a month ago, and glad I did...

Vancouver had the right idea w/the heroin maintenance...I don't know what happened w/that....

You explained clinics great, prisons. They say what they want and you must nod your head or they'll kick you out. Basically they are always right, 90% of the time they are wrong but they are always right in their minds. That's how this one clinic is here in philly. They use words like benzos and wafers instead of the actual words. You feel like you're talking to another junkie, oh wait you are 90% of the time, and they call their selves "ex users", they're are uneducated most of them and need to learn how to talk to patients as people and not criminals or whatever they think some people are. I take care of myself and I am attractive and still got treated like shit their. The first day I went through I found a nice counselor but the rest, niet. Hence the reason I bailed before even getting treated.

Btw, does anyone have a clinic that holds the bottle over your head if you miss a "group", we have a clinic here where you have to go to like an 8am group almost everyday and if you skip it they don't medicate you and will basically constantly remind you. It's inhumane and I wonder if they even can do that.

Basically if you are entering a clinic, lie your ass off and don't tell them you're taking sedatives (they usually only pee test every month) and make sure you don't shower and act tired, they'll probably be easier on you and not look at you like you're trying to get on methadone for the fun of it. And if you don't have proof, which only means tracks, in most cities you'll need a letter that's like documented or something. Methadone works great, withdrawals are a downside so researching is key and find a clinic that has professionals and not a bunch of wacks calling themselves counselors.

[paperrabbit]

eh. I was one bupe 1.5 years til the insurance started giving me shit for it. Got to a pretty low dose and started 'done (low dose), but god...this shit is killing me to get off of.
I just can't go through w/ds with work and shit and have to be of sound mind... damn drugs, my delight and destruction.