Got arrested, facing criminal charges

[LeChuck]

In case anybody has been wondering what happened to me...I'm not dead. I haven't been posting because I got arrested and the police took my computer. Anyway, this is what happened:

On the night of September 18, my girlfriend and I were smoking fentanyl and she OD'd. Like a dumbass I didn't have any Narcan on me, and as my girl was barely breathing and turning colors, I called 911. I assumed police would show up since it was an overdose, so I was trying to get rid of some shit in a box. The paramedics showed up like four minutes after I called, and they didn't use a siren. They were so stealthy I didn't realize they were here until they knocked on the door. I didn't have a good place to hide the box so I just kicked it under the coffee table and opened the door. The paramedics revived my girlfriend and she was fine. Meanwhile two cops show up and stroll through the door, unannounced, and start asking me questions like "Where's the rest of your stash?" At first I didn't say anything but then one of them claimed I was looking suspiciously over his shoulder so he goes into the kitchen and picks up a coffee grinder full of poppy grounds. I told him what it was. My line of thinking was that maybe if I gave up something small it would keep them from finding the real stuff. Obviously it didn't work. They kept talking to me, trying to get information, telling me I shouldn't be doing drugs, etc., and then one of them picked up the box (apparently one of the paramedics saw me moving it through the window and told the police), which was taped shut, and asked me to open it. I said I didn't want to open it. They said they were taking it and opening it anyway. At that point I panicked, because there were a LOT of drugs in that box (3111 pills, according to the police report), and I figured I was looking at a possible intent to distribute charge along with 20 counts of possession. So I started talking.

The paramedics insisted on taking my girlfriend to the hospital, even though she was fine. I wanted to go with her, but I couldn't drive or I'd get a DUI. The cops said they'd drive me there, and I went, handcuffed in the back of the car. After a couple hours sitting around in the hospital a different cop showed up and brought me into a room to interrogate me. They had opened the box and knew everything that was inside. I was bullied into talking. I was told if I didn't cooperate they would take me to jail over the weekend. My habit was rather large. I took a lot of different pharms, so it's hard to say exactly what my tolerance was, but I'd estimate a typical day would involve 120 mg oxymorphone (snorted), 200 mg of morphine (plugged), 3 - 4 tbsp pod grounds, and/or smoking 1 - 2 50 mcg fent patches. At one point I was just taking oxycontin and was taking about 400 mg a day, and this was 4 - 5 weeks before the arrest, so I'd say my habit was in that neighborhood, maybe more. SO the prospect of kicking this habit in jail scared the shit out of me, as I'd never kicked such a large habit, and I'd never been in jail. So I talked. A lot. After the interrogation was over the cop drove my girlfriend and me back to my place. He wasn't doing us a favor so much as seizing my computer as evidence.

Initially I was charged with one count of posession of CII substance but was told I could be charged with 20+ counts along with other charges. Luckily I got a good lawyer. He said the seizure of the drugs, as well as the computer, were illegal. If it went to court I could assert my constitutional right against unreasonable search and seizure and try to have the evidence suppressed. This would cost an additional $5k and would be unlikely to succeed as the cops would probably lie and the judge would probably believe the cops over me. So instead he was going to try to get me into this drug court program.

Meanwhile, I was in withdrawals as the police took almost everything. I had nothing but 5 mg percocets for several days and was taking 70 - 80 mg a day and still sick as hell. Didn't eat for several days, dry heaving constantly, no sleep. I tried to get into methadone clinics but nobody would take me since I didn't have a medically supervised detox attempt. I couldn't get into the detox places either as they were all inpatient and required at least a 1-week stay and I was starting a new job, literally the day after I was arrested. I made it to the first two days of my training but after that I was too sick. I finally found a bupe doctor who would see me on Thursday, the 24th. So I went in to see him, sick, and he wouldn't give me anything until Friday, after I was in total withdrawal for 24 hours. That night was almost unbearable and I probably would have killed myself if I didn't have a shitload of benzos and alcohol. So I went in and did the 1/4 pill at a time thing. After a few hours a lot of my physical withdrawal symptoms were gone but it didn't help with the anxiety, cravings, depression, crying, etc. I'd been hoping the Subs would make my life manageable enough to go to work but they didn't. I was still crying and having panic attacks by Monday so I quit. I'm currently unemployed.

My court date was October 14. I was charged with four counts of possession. My lawyer was able to get me into drug court, and orientation was today. I don't know all the details but I think for a year I have to go to classes, counseling, take drug tests, etc., and if I complete everything the charges are expunged. Unfortunately, from what I've been told so far they're not going to let me stay on Subs, which is bullshit. I'm barely functional as it is. I was really hoping for good news on this but I'm supposed to be completely sober for a year. The guy doing the orientation suggested I take another treatment, like naltrexone. Fucking moron. Naltrexone doesn't help addicts, it just keeps them from getting high. Along with experiencing pleasure of any kind. Being on that shit would be worse than nothing.

I still don't have my computer back. It will probably be another 2 - 3 weeks, at the minimum. My lawyer sent me a copy of the police report. The report was very inaccurate. There were several outright lies, mostly claiming I voluntarily gave up the drugs and my computer. The police also claimed to have seen bags of pills sticking out of the box, even though it was TAPED SHUT. Despite all this, if this goes to court the judge will believe the cops over me, so it doesn't matter.

So now I'm jobless, without opiates (except Subs, soon to be wholly without), and mildly addicted to benzos. Oh, and my girl and I have hospital bills for about $3000.

[bigNasty]

if you haven't already, you might wanna get a new password for this site as the cops probably have it now

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

WELL -OH YOU AND YOUR GIRL ARE ALIVE!!!

now hindsight is 20/20 but 2 big mistake:

1)--call 911 then quickly drag person outside home, lock door and continue CPR until paramedics arrive

2) lawyer up /shut up

your very lucky to be in a position where you could have this expunged.
have to play by there rules now
kick the benzo
try a done clinic again- maybe
definitely GET ANOTHER JOB

[LeChuck]

if you haven't already, you might wanna get a new password for this site as the cops probably have it now
They do have it. At least, they have my user name, as part of the police report included printouts of posts I'd made here. Nothing really incriminating, just proof that I'm a junkie. I went ahead and changed my password.

[mikey5string]

man it sounds like you did ok for what they claimed you had. amd im glad youre friend is OK.

rule number 1. NEVER TALK TO COPS when youre in a situation like that. THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS AND ARE NOT GOING TO "HELP" YOU.

if they ask to look in anything say NO. if they didnt have to ask, they sure as hell wouldnt.

im always seeing on cops people consenting to a search because the cops lead them into thinking that if they just fess up theyll be ok, or theyll "put in a good word" for them. the police are there to arrest you, thats all.

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ @ billpony
well you might then want to print out advice from here telling you to get help and use METHADONE CLNIC???

[More Feen]

First, good work saving your GF's life. 1st & foremost.

I have very little experience with LE, but from what I've seen, they rarely (NEVER) get the story/report right.

Don't know if it was always intentional, or not. Just fucking blatent disregard for veracity.

Do what you need to do, and get through this, it'll be okay.

M F

[Indy]

I just want to remind everyone that pleading the 5th does NOT "look bad in court" because if it is even mentioned that you chose to exercise your right to remain silent, the whole trial is likely to get thrown out, because it's not allowed to mention it in a courtroom.

But as we all know it's easier said than done, and the cops love to bully people into talking. So i'm sure you already know all of this anyway.

A lawyer might be a good idea even if it's costly, as it's possible you might be able to sue the county/city over it (there are a lot of BS lawsuits in this county but this wouldn't be one of them IMO).

I also want to say you should think about trying bupe again. for me and a lot of other people, it doesn't really kick in fully til the third day or later. just something to consider. just remember that it is very boring being on subs and you will kind of start to hate them after a while (i hate that they don't get me high, but i can't deny their usefulness), but I would imagine (never been in that situation really) it would be useful for "getting your life back on track" as people love to put it.

EDIT: i hate to mention this in such a serious topic, but is your location (listed as "IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY") a reference to the first Legend of Zelda on the original nintendo?

[LeChuck]

man it sounds like you did ok for what they claimed you had. amd im glad youre friend is OK.

rule number 1. NEVER TALK TO COPS when youre in a situation like that. THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS AND ARE NOT GOING TO "HELP" YOU.

if they ask to look in anything say NO. if they didnt have to ask, they sure as hell wouldnt.

im always seeing on cops people consenting to a search because the cops lead them into thinking that if they just fess up theyll be ok, or theyll "put in a good word" for them. the police are there to arrest you, thats all.
That's the messed up part, I did NOT consent to a search! They entered my apartment without asking or even announcing their presence. One of the paramedics supposedly saw me stashing drugs in a box, which is bullshit. What I was doing was taping the box and about to get rid of it. So the paramedics told the police (this is all in the report, I never saw this conversation take place) that he had seen me putting stuff in this box. So the police asked me to open the box. I said no, I wasn't going to open it. And they said, and I quote, "Well, we're going to take it and open it anyway." After they'd seized the drugs it looked like I was already screwed, so that's when I started talking to them. In retrospect I regret talking to them AT ALL. And I should have recorded the conversation or something, because they completely lied on the police report, saying they saw pills sticking out of a box that was TAPED SHUT, and saying they asked me if there were drugs in there and that I said YES.

But yeah, in retrospect, I regret saying anything whatsoever. I'm not sure it would have made much difference as they'd probably just have searched my place anyway and the same thing would have happened. But I could have felt better about it, at least. At the time I wasn't as concerned with my legal future as I was concerned with going into withdrawals, so after they seized the drugs I "cooperated" so they would go away and I could try to get into a methadone clinic.

None of the methadone clinics would take me though. And if this drug court thing won't let me be on Suboxone, I sure as hell doubt they'd let me be on methadone... :(

[nick]

Bill,if I were you(and right now I'm glad I'm not)I'd buckle up because the ride gets rough from here on in.

Hard rain gonna fall and all that,but with luck you'll survive.

Wish I had better news for you and of course, much luck.


EDIT,two pieces of advice;one,NEVER talk to cops and two,NEVER keep that much dope in your house-that was lazy or dumb.

[Indy]

It's important to remember that the most likely reason you weren't thinking of all this at the time is because you were thinking of MUCH more important matters, like your girlfriend's life. All this type of enforcement does is discourage people from seeking medical attention in situations like this.

Also it's completely bullshit that drugs are even considered "crimes" as opposed to violations of code/citations because the very definition of a crime in the USA has ALWAYS been something that inflicts loss or damage on someone, that's why speeding isn't considered a crime, but a violation of ordinance or something like that. I might be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that's the way the law -supposedly- works. Drugs simply do not fit a single one of those criteria.

I'm sorry, though, I don't mean to be on a soapbox in your topic, it just pisses me off to hear about things like this happening.

[LeChuck]

I just want to remind everyone that pleading the 5th does NOT "look bad in court" because if it is even mentioned that you chose to exercise your right to remain silent, the whole trial is likely to get thrown out, because it's not allowed to mention it in a courtroom.

But as we all know it's easier said than done, and the cops love to bully people into talking. So i'm sure you already know all of this anyway.

A lawyer might be a good idea even if it's costly, as it's possible you might be able to sue the county/city over it (there are a lot of BS lawsuits in this county but this wouldn't be one of them IMO).

I also want to say you should think about trying bupe again. for me and a lot of other people, it doesn't really kick in fully til the third day or later. just something to consider. just remember that it is very boring being on subs and you will kind of start to hate them after a while (i hate that they don't get me high, but i can't deny their usefulness), but I would imagine (never been in that situation really) it would be useful for "getting your life back on track" as people love to put it.
I didn't really admit to anything until the police had already seized the drugs. Once they'd done that, I was afraid of being charged with intent to distribute based on pill quantities, so I decided to try to convince the police I had a large habit and wasn't dealing (the truth). I probably should have just kept my mouth shut.

I do have a lawyer, and a good one, which is why I was able to get into drug court at all. He thought with the amount of drugs seized that I was lucky the prosecutor agreed to drug court. I am still on Bupe, by the way (Suboxone). I hate it compared to real opiates, but I'm sure I'd be way worse off on nothing, which is where the drug court apparently wants me to be.


EDIT: i hate to mention this in such a serious topic, but is your location (listed as "IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY") a reference to the first Legend of Zelda on the original nintendo?
Yes. Eastmost peninsula is the secret.

[taj]

man, I'm so sorry, I was just thinking about you this week too. I have no real advice, but to hang in there, sounds like things could be much much worse.. even though you probably don't really care about that right now, but it's the truth..

just try to do your best to get by, like I've said before, survival mode... you'll be in my thoughts.. -T

[SHELLEY]

i was facing drug court at one point
jail > drug court
seriously, if you hafta kick either way it's better to just do the time
than to (no offense or anything) probably violate drug court and do even more time

[jacky]

bargaining with the cops can be done....but it takes guts, or stupidity, depending on what happens. really this can only be done if you have a way to admit to a lesser crime than the one that you will most likely get charged with.
its worked for me a couple of times....but is hardly something that one can really prepare for.
I like to think I was just lucky rather brave or smart...the key determining factor I think is that I was still plenty high on dillies.
the info I gave up was nothing but claiming an alternate reason for possesion of cannabis...not giving up names or other snitch type information...lets just get that straight.
I was also not caught at my residence...but pulled over with some sketchy well known junkies in my backseat
but it was a way to get my charges reduced instantaneously.

anyway, that sucks that you got busted man.
you and yours are still alive though. and good news for you, there are some opioid active herbs out there that are not illegal, and not testable. you might have to keep them somewhere besides your own house given the nature of the drug war encroaching into areas of our lives that are really not applicable current laws. granted these substances are not really that euphoric...but they can help with some of the anxiety and such.
the problem is of course that herbs cost money, and having a computer is the only way to get many of them.
but for future reference..hang in there...you might recover from this incident quicker than you think.

good luck with these charges...if they are bunk enough...feel free to represent yourself if you need to...I have represented myself twice in court, and I WON both times. the judge even told the cops to apologize to me in the courtroom so I wouldnt press charges against them....those cops were so pissed at that suggestion that they refused to shake my hand in the court room, and wouldnt do it until we walked out of the court room...I wouldnt have shaken their hands at all...but it was sort of fun to fuck with their heads, that and the prosecutor was an OK Woman, so I went along with the apology as it was.
representing onself in court is surely risky....but also very cheap...ha ha. I really didnt have any option than a public pretender, and most times I think people are better off representing themselves than letting some of the public defenders sway shit to the courts side to begin with.

this is the type of thing that I want all opiophile members to consider...that law enforcement comes into possession of members computers on a sort of regular basis. that, or opposing lawyers got access to peoples info in a civil case.

too bad you werent just fucking around with just poppy pods....its a somewhat defensable material to get caught with compared to breaking prescription laws left and right, at least compared to getting caught with a large amount of pills.
I myself was caught with a bunch of meds...only some of which were opiate...most were pills for kicking...benzo's, muscle relaxants etc. the DEA agent actually felt bad about throwing away all my pills, as he wasnt about to press charges against me for keeping pills to try and kick heroin with. so they just wrote me a possession of paraphenalia...a bunch of spoons that I kept in my backpack.(luckily I was a greedy poor junky...and cleaned those spoons to the point of being microscopically useless..the only determining factor was all the lampblack on the bottoms of them from heating.

getting a job is a good idea. the economy sucks and many states are cutting back on putting people in jail that can just be controlled outside of jail.

I think the issue with buprenorphine is bullshit...no one should be able to tell you or your Dr that you shouldnt get the subs.
in a case like yours, I think buprenorphine could make a WORLD of difference.

and also, take it from my personal experience...NALTREXONE DOES NOT ALWAYS BLOCK OPIATES....I found this out myself, relapsing on heroin while I had naltrexone in my system.
I had taken 50 milligrams a day for months on end.
the naltrexone SORT of blocked the opiate high...but not for long, I just kept shooting up small amounts of H, and low and behold within a few hours, I was nodding and scratching.
I was worried about ODing...but I had some upstanding junkie freinds that watched me and hung out with me for 4 days while I relapsed into full blown addiction again.
I had a freind die trying to do the same thing as I had done.
so in my opinion, naltrexone is a risk.
I lost more weight on naltrexone than I did using heroin. no one thought I was sober from opiates, because I looked so shitty being maintained on the naltrexone.
also, naltrexone did nothing for my state of mind...because I could hardly sleep on that shit. I was drinking valerian extract everynight trying to get to sleep on naltrexone.
for months on end I could sleep no longer than a few hours at a time. my nights were spent sleeping in little blocks. I averaged 3-4 hours of sleep a night.
in the end, naltrexone maintenance was one of the reasons I think I was driven to dope again...that and a dishonest wife that was using behind my back, running up thousands of dollars with the mexicans, and cheating on me after just a month of being married.
excuses excuses.....
but anyway, naltrexone is a faulty peice of crap invention. it blocks more LSD effects than it does opiate (which is a fascinating subject in and of itself)

anyway, man, you have a long road ahead of you...but it sounds like things might be in your favor. besides money and time....at least you have one another hopefully to support one another through this.
and if anyone gives you a hard time about this website..well, maybe we can create a forum for recovery or something.
most people consider opiophile a purely transgressive website that is all about breaking laws and such....be sure and defend your right to information and freedom of expression, and remind naysayers that many people use opiates licitly, and that there are a growing number of opioid active herbs which are not controlled at all. chronic pain patients, methadone patients, buprenorphine patients, people in recovery, people out of recovery and not using, people that have scientific interests, and people that have religious interest in opiates (Shiva worship) all have a right to freedom of information/expression.

you might be one of those people that needs to just cut all ties with any influences though, if so, good luck to you and dont let things get you down.

remember that loperamide can help somewhat, and also remember that effexor is a partially opioid active anti depressant that has dopaminergic activity as well as the standard serotonergic activity. this anti depressant is habit forming, and feels like kicking opiates and anti dep. at the same time. I used it myself after "getting clean" and it has a real stimulant edge to it.
if you decide to get on effexor, you should know, and tell your doctor and your probation officer that the compound is VERY similiar to tramadol...so it might make you test positive for PCP, and possibly opiates/opioids due to its similarity and structure.
I was given effexor before many Dr's knew that it had opioid activity (they should have known from the start, due to its close structural similarity to tramadol)...and I like effexor...it woke me up in the morning...helped with pain experienced when working hard, and seemed to work great as an anti depressant. the reason I went with it is because the Dr told me it was safe to quit taking it abruptly for short periods of time to reduce sexual side effects....what I quickly realized was, if I missed a dose by a few hours I would start to experience withdrawal almost as bad as when I was strung on heroin.
I dont want to suggest effexor because its addictive...rather I know that some opiate addicts favor the substance.
your chances of being denied effexor are much lower than buprenorphine or methadone....the authorities love their little judges little helpers, the anti depressants and anti psychotics, the'll prescribe them to anyone for almost any reason.

I hope you keep out of jail, and keep your head up.

take care!

[ka11ink]

I thank (someone, not god) like every day that I never got into any trouble with LE when I was in the game as I was involved in stuff that could have cost me a pretty penny/landed me behind bars for some good time. I was smart about shit, like not copping high etc, but even the most careful people can get unlucky, the more you do it the higher the odds are that you're gonna get caught, so I was very lucky to escape it all with nothing more than a really shitty habit, losing an apartment, and my significant other. Damn now that I list those again it sucks more than I remember.

[jacky]

well, you are also to be commended for calling the paramedics rather than just taking her to the hospital yourself...which is what we did when faced with an OD.

that you didnt really think about the consequences until it was too late says something about your character (probably....heh heh)

I have a few freinds that are dead because the people around them were too paranoid to get a grip and save a life. young vibrant people...that died on a relapse.

if the authorities are dealing with alot of this type of stuff...they should know who still has a heart and cared enough.

[OpiateQueen]

Dude thats sounds AWFUL. Here in OZ they make it a big point that if you call the paramedics for OD or whatever - the police WILL NOT be involved. And i have never seen them at any OD i have been at or heard about. As someone mentioned, they dont want to discourage people from calling the ambos and saving lives - i can't believe they turned up like that - do they turn up to all OD sitchs in the USA??

And as for the box - i know nothing about LE or talking/dealing with the cops, but even if he had refused to let the cops open that box, surely there is some way they could've legally got into it without having to leave the house and getting a warrant etc, which would obviously give Bill the chance to change contents.....

Surely they wil let you stay on Subs... if not maybe u should just go to jail - u will be abe to be on them or done there surely...

And just as an aside - whre the hell do u get 1-2 fentanyl patches A DAY from?! I don't kjnow where u guys manage to buy all this shit if thats where u getting it - ive never heard of or seen anyone selling pharms..
Never spoken to anyone in OZ who has heard of poppy pods either..

[taj]

... if not maybe u should just go to jail - u will be abe to be on them or done there surely...




ha ha ha ha, yeah right, in the US? ha ha ha..
sorry, not trying to poke fun(really, I'm not), but that doesn't happen..(or at least, I don't know anyone that was able to)

[limitless_euphoria]

Wow Bill. That's really rough man. Yeah, overdoses happen but like you said keep an amp of narcan around. That would have saved your ass.

My question is, do you think this is a wake-up call for you... how long have you had a habit? I know you can't want yourself to want to quit but maybe being forced to quit or hopefully subs if they'd let you. Maybe it's time for a change. Just food for thought.

Hey, and if after your year is up you don't think staying clean was worth it, fuck it, do what you want. The drugs aren't going anywhere.

If I were you I'd do the year clean if that's the best my lawyer could get me. I'd try for the subs though. It would help you a lot.

Also, there's no way you could have meaningful income in prison, you know?

[OpiateQueen]

ha ha ha ha, yeah right, in the US? ha ha ha..
sorry, not trying to poke fun(really, I'm not), but that doesn't happen..(or at least, I don't know anyone that was able to)
you're not allowed to be on methadone or subs if you go to jail in the USA?!?! Well what happens if you on a massive dose of done and then go to jail? couldn't u die just cold turkey?

In Oz 80% of the prison population is on methadone....

[marshalldylan1]

Dude thats sounds AWFUL. Here in OZ they make it a big point that if you call the paramedics for OD or whatever - the police WILL NOT be involved. And i have never seen them at any OD i have been at or heard about. As someone mentioned, they dont want to discourage people from calling the ambos and saving lives - i can't believe they turned up like that - do they turn up to all OD sitchs in the USA??

And as for the box - i know nothing about LE or talking/dealing with the cops, but even if he had refused to let the cops open that box, surely there is some way they could've legally got into it without having to leave the house and getting a warrant etc, which would obviously give Bill the chance to change contents.....

Surely they wil let you stay on Subs... if not maybe u should just go to jail - u will be abe to be on them or done there surely...

And just as an aside - whre the hell do u get 1-2 fentanyl patches A DAY from?! I don't kjnow where u guys manage to buy all this shit if thats where u getting it - ive never heard of or seen anyone selling pharms..
Never spoken to anyone in OZ who has heard of poppy pods either..

I've always heard, that if you have an OD going on in your place, and your holdin something, that when you call the paramedics you just say that the person isn't breathing. Then when the paramedics get there, tell them whatsup. The cops won't show up if they hear on the radio that someone isn't breathing. But if they hear those two letters back to back, you bet your ass they are going to be there. They are cops afterall....lazy mother fuckers.

[doctor diesel]

Dude thats sounds AWFUL. Here in OZ they make it a big point that if you call the paramedics for OD or whatever - the police WILL NOT be involved. And i have never seen them at any OD i have been at or heard about. As someone mentioned, they dont want to discourage people from calling the ambos and saving lives - i can't believe they turned up like that - do they turn up to all OD sitchs in the USA??



Hey Queenie,

When it comes to things like this, the USA is just about the most backward land in the world. The authorities there are only interested in blame, blame, blame, sue and incarcerate.
Yes, in a civilised society, you would give people an amnesty in the event of an emergency such as an overdose, because of course you don't wont to discourage them from getting lives saved.
The USA, from everything I read, is far from being a civilised society. I mean just look at the way the authorities treat physicians for crissake, watching and threatening them as if they were hardened criminals, just because they want to help relieve the suffering of people in pain.It's a disgustingly backward state. :mad:
I'm not going to say that we're that much better over here in england, but quite honestly, the US of A takes the biscuit when it comes to getting it arse-about-face in terms of 'controlling its populace'.
It really is a fucking disgrace, and it's time somebody like Obama stood back, took an overview, then kicked it all back into proper shape.


Doc

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Yeah that is all 911 needs to know is person is not breathing on their own
PERIOD

Billi don't be so sure 'done clinic is not ? allowed ask your lawyer
and yes again get a job
and I would seek help really just for your own sake from a addiction specilist shrink
That is shrink = real MD doctor
follow shrinks advise

[OpiateQueen]

Doc - they let u have methadone, subs in gaol over there dont they?? in the UK in mean??

I mean i dont get how they can refuse you that in the US?? i mean its a dr prescribed medicine. I mean what if you're on OCs for pain or something, do they let you have that?? Or what about antidepressants, or anti seizure meds - surely they let u have them.... what is the difference?? Surely it is monitored by drs in some way - they would know u couldn't just stop someone cold turkey from a stack of methadone..

[Actavis]

Doc - they let u have methadone, subs in gaol over there dont they?? in the UK in mean??

I mean i dont get how they can refuse you that in the US?? i mean its a dr prescribed medicine. I mean what if you're on OCs for pain or something, do they let you have that?? Or what about antidepressants, or anti seizure meds - surely they let u have them.... what is the difference?? Surely it is monitored by drs in some way - they would know u couldn't just stop someone cold turkey from a stack of methadone..

nope, nothing... most jails here are so ass backwards in the us it is amazing. when child molesters, rapists and murderers are out in 4 years and some get 20 for a drug crime you have to wonder. they will throw you in the klink and let you suffer. if you go into seizures or stop breathing then they will take you to the prison nurse... hopefully.

[SHELLEY]

you're not allowed to be on methadone or subs if you go to jail in the USA?!?! Well what happens if you on a massive dose of done and then go to jail? couldn't u die just cold turkey?

In Oz 80% of the prison population is on methadone....

if you're on a massive dose of opiates when you get locked up
you puke and shit and cry and roll around the bed for a week or two (three, four, whatever)
until you totally kick or get released, whichever comes first
i kicked 3g heroin/day in county, no fun
but dying from opiate w/d is like dying from the flu
yes it can happen, but it's not likely enough to put forth the $$$ to keep "criminals" not dopesick

they'll give ya anti seizure meds, blood pressure pills, HIV meds, antibiotics, nitro, stuff like that
but if you want painkillers, benzos, sleeping pills, anti depressents, etc
you're totally SOL because the jails responsibility is to keep you alive not to keep you happy

[OpiateQueen]

if you're on a massive dose of opiates when you get locked up
you puke and shit and cry and roll around the bed for a week or two (three, four, whatever)
until you totally kick or get released, whichever comes first
i kicked 3g heroin/day in county, no fun
but dying from opiate w/d is like dying from the flu
yes it can happen, but it's not likely enough to put forth the $$$ to keep "criminals" not dopesick

they'll give ya anti seizure meds, blood pressure pills, HIV meds, antibiotics, nitro, stuff like that
but if you want painkillers, benzos, sleeping pills, anti depressents, etc
you're totally SOL because the jails responsibility is to keep you alive not to keep you happy
i know its very rare from just heroin or other recreational opies.. but i thought going cold turkey from a really high dose of methadone was quite dangerous??
And what about other meds??? like seizure meds or antidepressents, blood pressure tabs, whatever - they must let you hv them - i mean where do they draw the line??

[SHELLEY]

i know its very rare from just heroin or other recreational opies.. but i thought going cold turkey from a really high dose of methadone was quite dangerous??
And what about other meds??? like seizure meds or antidepressents, blood pressure tabs, whatever - they must let you hv them - i mean where do they draw the line??

they give you meds which are necessary for your survival
prozac, oxycontin, methadone, valium, ambien, and provigil don't make the cut
but if you have aids and you're gonna be there a few months
you can bet your ass you'll get your protese inhibitors or whatever
basically they don't give a flying rats ass what non-jail drs prescribe
what the jail dr prescribes (or doesn't prescribe) that's what you get or don't get
and they aren't in the business of making folks feel good

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

i know its very rare from just heroin or other recreational opies.. but i thought going cold turkey from a really high dose of methadone was quite dangerous??
And what about other meds??? like seizure meds or antidepressents, blood pressure tabs, whatever - they must let you hv them - i mean where do they draw the line??

dangerous- living hell =yes
but not life threantening = cold turkey
Benzo adiction is life threating = 24 hour lockdown slow very low taper
ANTI-DEREPRESSENTS IN PRISION? HAHA no way prision is suppose to be bleak & depressing
other meds not sure where line is drawn
lots of meds is 24 hour isolated lock down like Phsic. ward

crazy huh? if not it can make u

You have to remember that many prision system now here in US are privately run
Coporations prision system = BIG MONEY

usa:o

[drew1503]

Over here in Ca you can have done in most county lockups but not in prison. And it is just a detox at that but is way better than nothing but you have to be on a program before you go to jail and sometimes pay a nice fee.
Anyway, sorry about your situation man and hope it all works our for you. I was in Drug Court and after going to every rehab in the county pretty much they finally told me to just do the year I had over my head. I wished I would of declined drug court at first and plea bargained, I would of been home a lot sooner. Drug Court is hard here in CA and requires a lot of your time and a lot of people cannot be employed because of the restrictions and all the meetings/classes.
Even if it is a felony, here in CA you can petition after you have completed probation and have it reduced to a misdemeanor and have it dismissed, I think it is CA Penal code 1203.4 so you do not need Drug Court to get your charges dismissed.

[LeChuck]

bargaining with the cops can be done....but it takes guts, or stupidity, depending on what happens. really this can only be done if you have a way to admit to a lesser crime than the one that you will most likely get charged with.
its worked for me a couple of times....but is hardly something that one can really prepare for.
I like to think I was just lucky rather brave or smart...the key determining factor I think is that I was still plenty high on dillies.
the info I gave up was nothing but claiming an alternate reason for possesion of cannabis...not giving up names or other snitch type information...lets just get that straight.
I was also not caught at my residence...but pulled over with some sketchy well known junkies in my backseat
but it was a way to get my charges reduced instantaneously.
I did something like this, I have to be careful what I say because I don't want to incriminate myself (police have my user name here), but I was afraid of potentially serious charges and ended up with lesser charges.


anyway, that sucks that you got busted man.
you and yours are still alive though. and good news for you, there are some opioid active herbs out there that are not illegal, and not testable. you might have to keep them somewhere besides your own house given the nature of the drug war encroaching into areas of our lives that are really not applicable current laws. granted these substances are not really that euphoric...but they can help with some of the anxiety and such.
the problem is of course that herbs cost money, and having a computer is the only way to get many of them.
but for future reference..hang in there...you might recover from this incident quicker than you think.
At this point I don't care about euphoria. Subs are useless as far as euphoria but at least I'm not sick. I have no idea what I'll be like after quitting them. What herbs are you talking about? Only one I know about is kratom. Is there a cross tolerance between opiates and kratom? Was thinking about getting some but it's expensive, especially if I'm going to need a huge amount to feel anything.


good luck with these charges...if they are bunk enough...feel free to represent yourself if you need to...I have represented myself twice in court, and I WON both times. the judge even told the cops to apologize to me in the courtroom so I wouldnt press charges against them....those cops were so pissed at that suggestion that they refused to shake my hand in the court room, and wouldnt do it until we walked out of the court room...I wouldnt have shaken their hands at all...but it was sort of fun to fuck with their heads, that and the prosecutor was an OK Woman, so I went along with the apology as it was.
representing onself in court is surely risky....but also very cheap...ha ha. I really didnt have any option than a public pretender, and most times I think people are better off representing themselves than letting some of the public defenders sway shit to the courts side to begin with.
I've thought about facing the charges in court but my lawyer has advised me against that. He believes my version of events and says the search/seizure was illegal and if it went to court we could assert my 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. He said the judge will almost always believe the police when there are conflicting versions of what happened. Especially in drug cases because the police can fall back on the "fact" that I was too "high" to remember things clearly.


you're not allowed to be on methadone or subs if you go to jail in the USA?!?! Well what happens if you on a massive dose of done and then go to jail? couldn't u die just cold turkey?

In Oz 80% of the prison population is on methadone....
Yeah they don't let you have anything in jail. They'll give pain patients opiates in some cases but I imagine it's very controlled. They don't give a shit about addicts, even if they have documented mental health diagnoses like I do.


Over here in Ca you can have done in most county lockups but not in prison. And it is just a detox at that but is way better than nothing but you have to be on a program before you go to jail and sometimes pay a nice fee.
Anyway, sorry about your situation man and hope it all works our for you. I was in Drug Court and after going to every rehab in the county pretty much they finally told me to just do the year I had over my head. I wished I would of declined drug court at first and plea bargained, I would of been home a lot sooner. Drug Court is hard here in CA and requires a lot of your time and a lot of people cannot be employed because of the restrictions and all the meetings/classes.
Even if it is a felony, here in CA you can petition after you have completed probation and have it reduced to a misdemeanor and have it dismissed, I think it is CA Penal code 1203.4 so you do not need Drug Court to get your charges dismissed.
Drug court is pretty intense here too. I have to go to classes for three hours a day three days a week in addition to going to AA or NA meetings twice a week. And that's if you don't fail any drug tests. If you fail they send you to inpatient rehab facilities for as long as they want. Maybe that's not as bad as CA, I don't know. I think I'm going to have to take drug court though, as otherwise I'll have a felony conviction and will be unhirable in my line of work, at least until I get it expunged, which would take 2 - 3 years depending on the length of my probation.

[at&t]

-- Billthepony,
You are one strong guy, man......... For you to have made it this far, and not... I don't know... and not collapse under the weight of it all, or jump off a building, or... whatever. For you to have made it this far is no mean feat.

You'll get through this... You'll be able to get the law (eventually) the hell out of your hair, get a new job and pay off the 3000 dollars, and have happy days aplenty with your gf in the future....

That is incredible shit that happened to you......... Left me pretty much speechless........ other than

#1. congratulations for being such a strong badass guy, and having gritted your teeth and made it this far without freaking out and... like, attacking those people at the local methadone clinics, and making it through those hard painful days before (and after) subs, and etc, etc.......

and
#2. Don't forget to have narcan handy folks....


-- Jacky, Esteemed Opiohounder,
I'm always amazed by some of the things you post...



--OpiateQueen...
Yeah... Its pretty impressive, isn't it... There are only a couple of states in america where they DON'T send the cops along with the ambulance. One of them is New Mexico...

As for methadone in PRISON, nowhere in America is that an option. BUT-- In a few different counties-- (Including this county in New Mexico) Methadone IS available in JAILS (before sentencing to prison, etc) IF-- AND ONLY IF-- you are already a registered methadone patient when you are arrested. (They give you an excruciating (and dangerous) "three day taper" (or whatever they feel would meet the bare minimum of 'medical necessity') before transferring you from the jail to serve your sentence in the prison.)

And yes... Deaths resulting from this policy are not uncommon.... Heroin/Methadone/etc withdrawal is not USUALLY going to be fatal to a Healthy Young addict... But, not everyone is Healthy, and not everyone is Young.... So...

I don't know.........


Anyway,

I wish I had more to say to the OP... My hat is most certainly off to him for having made it this far.... Really good work so far, man.... Take care of yourself, and you'll make it all the way through, no trouble...

Stay strong, and Best of luck!!
at&t

[hovadagod]

I don't know why the search and seizure was illegal if you gave the police permission to search your shit and admit to having the poppy grounds. Maybe your lawyer doesn't know that poppy grounds are illegal. Didn't you consent to the police searching the box? Meaning that it doesn't matter if there were bags sticking out of not.

Glad everyone ended up alive but this is a great lesson in why you don't say shit to the cops. You never should have told the cop about teh poppy grounds but it's good you called 911!

[upstate_007]

Goddam. Shitty situation amigo. And like Nick said, it's only the beginning.

Here is my unsolicited advice:

1. Do you think you can complete drug court without screwing up? Being totally honest with yourself about that goes a long way. If you think you can go a year without dropping dirty, then do it. If not, a short stay in the county would be the better way to go. But, that would probably include some probation afterward as well.

2. In my experience, initial charges are always trumped up and heavy. Designed to get you to plead to something lesser and more appropriate to the case. Take it to trial with a good lawyer if you feel confident that it could benefit you. A lawyer will have knowledge about the specific court where you will be tried and how they typically treat cases like yours.

3. Be very careful about who you talk to and what about from here on out. You never know what the police are up to and to what lengths they will go.

4. Voluntarily entering treatment before your case goes to trial can be a very good thing. Even if it is just attending meetings. Something is better than nothing.

5. As you learned the hard way......never incriminate yourself by talking to the police. They promise you the world if you cooperate, but rarely deliver on that promise. Look at what it got you. You still got charged for everything and gave them a bunch of info to help their case against you. Since they know about the phile, I am assuming you told them about ordering something online? Pods? Anything else?


Best of luck to you. You're going to need it.

[NV12]

-- Jacky, Esteemed Opiohounder,
I'm always amazed by some of the things you post...

As am I.

billthepony.. good luck man, under the circumstances you sound pretty focused and seem to be holding up well.. it's a big price to pay, but in the grand scheme, you did the right thing and saved someone's life.
best to you, nv12

[nick]

Upstate's point number 3 is excellent.The cops will come back and try again if they think your "worthwhile."

So,be very careful and this time keep your house "clean."

I'd still like to know why you kept that much dope in your home?

[PaythePiper]

Me and my girl got arrested in March of '07 for possession of H w/ intent to distribute Drug Free Zone(DFZ), possesion of cocaine DFZ, and possesion of paraphernalia DFZ. It was our first arrest ever and we were looking at 0 to life on the possesion with intent DFZ which was a class I felony.

Anyway my girl took the drug court and was able to graduate after almost two years.. A couple dirty UA's kept her in there for a while. But as soon as she graduated her entire record was whiped clean. Meanwhile I took a plea of abeyance and took some half assed outpatient rehab where I went to class one time a week for 6 months and got UA'ed twice. I have to stay out of trouble for 3 years and my record gets dropped as well.. Got my fingers crossed till March of 2010.

It's hard to say who got the better deal in the end though. My girl (wife now) has been clean for over 2 years and as for me I just got done with a little H vacation so I have a whole week clean under my belt. Drug Court works because they dont let you fuck around unless you want to sit in jail for months at a time. My girl got caught after almost a year in drug court going to a doctor to get fentanyl patches which the labs can't test for. So she ended up staying in jail for 2 months then they made her do a 3 month inpatient rehab.

Anyway what I'm trying to tell you is drug court works well if you think you can stay clean. If you think you can fuck around then think again. They've seen everything in the book and it's impossible to get away with using in there.

If your not sure you can do it talk to your lawer about going my route and getting a pley of abeyance which means as long as you dont get arrested again, in my case in 3 years, your record can be whiped as well. I have no probation officer over my head, no surprise UA's.. Just had that lame ass 6 month program.

Anyway getting arrested and charged is a bitch. Whoever said you should drag your friend outside and lock the doors was right. I did this once and the police couldn't do shit. I just kept saying no when they kept asking to go inside my apartment.

Good luck

[The Paregoric Man]

I don't know why the search and seizure was illegal if you gave the police permission to search your shit and admit to having the poppy grounds. Maybe your lawyer doesn't know that poppy grounds are illegal. Didn't you consent to the police searching the box? Meaning that it doesn't matter if there were bags sticking out of not.

Glad everyone ended up alive but this is a great lesson in why you don't say shit to the cops. You never should have told the cop about teh poppy grounds but it's good you called 911!

Most DAs and cops don't know poppy pods are illegal, I doubt it will even matter or he will even be charged with it.

[hovadagod]

This is the truth. You have to wear a patch when you go out of town. The patch detects drugs in your sweat.



Anyway what I'm trying to tell you is drug court works well if you think you can stay clean. If you think you can fuck around then think again. They've seen everything in the book and it's impossible to get away with using in there.

Good luck

[Papa Verine]

Hey Bill, I've been reading this thread and I'd really like to see you try to beat this case in court. Whether you can hire some good legal representation or do as Jacky said and defend yourself.

It WAS an illegal search and seizure. I hate to hear the police are doing shit like this! I hope they're reading my post right now. Apparently our constitutional rights mean nothing to these fucking jag-off PRICK COPS!!!

I'll talk to the police. And by that I mean I will tell them what I think of them. Nothing else!

[doctor diesel]

It's a sad, scary situation.

But don't you all just love the name "Billthepony"?!



Doc

[Poppylvr]

Billthepony - Thank God your girlfriend lived.
Getting the charges just suck. Drug court is tough, but doable, and to be able to have a clean record in the end it worth it.
The trick with a sub wean (since it seems pretty inevitable that you must go off it) is low & slow. Start now dropping by small amounts for say a week at a time. Here's hoping you can get completely off the subs well before you have to get to drug court.
I sure hope your Lawyer pushes the illegal search & seizure angle.
Good Luck, bro - please keep us posted.

[doctor diesel]

[QUOTE=OpiateQueen;430028]Doc - they let u have methadone, subs in gaol over there dont they?? in the UK in mean??
[QUOTE]


Hey Queenie, I can confirm that they don't, no.
The guy I used to buy off has just been put away for two years. I think this is his third time in the slammer. He was doing eight spikes of H a day and sixteen large cans of 9% proof lager. He told me that on past experience he was going to have to CT in the big house, becaue they don't give you jack for your opiate addiction. In fact they probably enjoy watching you drown in your vomit and excrement.

How humane, eh?


Doc

[OpiXPO]

Hey, I'm terribly sorry you had to go through this, and reading this makes me want to get back to the streets so I can get back to trying to fix things even more rather than sit behind a computer an apologize for law enforcement gone wrong.

All of the advice given on this thread already is some of the best advice you can get, such as taking the OD person outside and closing and locking the door, and what not.

As for advice that I can give on the situation? Go over their reports as many times as it takes and just look for conflictions in the report to prove they are lying. If they weren't smart enough to do it correctly, then they probably are not smart enough to do it corruptly. Do not depend on your lawyer to do this for you, although doing it with you lawyer would be good. YOU were there, and YOU know how things really were as apposed to how they say. Find some shred of proof to find that they lied about ANYTHING, and then the entire case will fold and there is a good chance the officers will be fired for lying.

Also, when you plea barging a case, your chance of getting an appellate court to take up your case for wrong doing on the LEO's part is nil.

Also, If I were you, I'd quit posting about this all together as I promise you this thread is being watched.

[pain-patient]

Silencer --

Sorry to hear of the travails of you and your now wife. You mentioned that, "My girl got caught after almost a year in drug court going to a doctor to get fentanyl patches which the labs can't test for. So she ended up staying in jail for 2 months then they made her do a 3 month inpatient rehab."

I hope I am not being too nosy or intrusive, but I wonder if you could illuminate a bit just how she got "caught" trying to obtain pain relief meds if they couldn't be tested for? It might help others hear reduce risks and harms......

M

[pain-patient]

Just thought I would add that I would not be optimistic about prevailing on the search and seizure issue. I've argued many motions to suppress with fact patterns like these and lost most of them. In your case, the words "OD" on the phone plus the likelihood that the EMTs asked you what she OD'd on --- not to mention the pods -- were evidence of crime that would fall in the "plain view" category (or, I guess, "plainly heard" in the case of the statements). When an officer claims "plain view" and there is no way to absolutely disprove them (e.g., they were in the foyer and claim to have seen something in another room and it can be shown by video or diapgrams that LEO couldn't possibly have seen what they claimed), the court will usually believe the officers. The statement by one cop that you looking "suspiciously" at the box could also be used to justify their search and seizure.

That said, I don't think I have encountered too many situations where it actually hurt my client or our plea bargaining position to argue a motion to supppress. If a prosecutor or judge would threaten that filing and arguing such motions would result in lesser plea options for you, they are really saying you will prosecuted, or more prosecuted so to speak, for exercsing your constituional rights. Often, we would have our evidentiary hearing on the motion(s) and the judge would promise to issue a written ruling later, and t during the pendency of that opinion, the case would resolve itself via a plea, usually more favorable to my client than the iniital offer because proecutors hate to even take a chance of losing --- those m*therf*ckers are so used to winning, the thought of losing terrifies them.

What if you could find a sub or methadone doc who is also an addiction med specialist? Couldn't you then ask the judge if his/her probation department would work with the "addiction treatment team" you already have on board because the nice officers convinced you at the scene you had a problem and needed help, so you went and got it?

My condolences on this horrid predicament coming into your life, but as others have pointed out, at least someone very important to you didn't go out of your life!.

[OpiateQueen]

[QUOTE=OpiateQueen;430028]Doc - they let u have methadone, subs in gaol over there dont they?? in the UK in mean??
[QUOTE]


Hey Queenie, I can confirm that they don't, no.
The guy I used to buy off has just been put away for two years. I think this is his third time in the slammer. He was doing eight spikes of H a day and sixteen large cans of 9% proof lager. He told me that on past experience he was going to have to CT in the big house, becaue they don't give you jack for your opiate addiction. In fact they probably enjoy watching you drown in your vomit and excrement.

How humane, eh?


Doc
i knew they didn't give it to those that weren't already on it - i don't know when they do that here - although you'd think that they must if so many are on it inside... anyway, do they give it to those that are already registered on the done program when they get arrested/gaoled?

[PaythePiper]

Pain-Patient,

My wife got caught eventually because her brother found out about it and told her couselor. He was suspicious, and one day when he was borrowing her car he found some shit. She was actually on the fentanyl patches, the suckers, and those new kind you stick between your gums and they fizz away/dissolve. Anyway there isn't much you can get away with in drug court but if you can keep it under control the fentanyl isn't a bad idea every once in a while because it's so hard to test for.

[China white]

In case anybody has been wondering what happened to me...I'm not dead. I haven't been posting because I got arrested and the police took my computer. Anyway, this is what happened:

On the night of September 18, my girlfriend and I were smoking fentanyl and she OD'd. Like a dumbass I didn't have any Narcan on me, and as my girl was barely breathing and turning colors, I called 911. I assumed police would show up since it was an overdose, so I was trying to get rid of some shit in a box. The paramedics showed up like four minutes after I called, and they didn't use a siren. They were so stealthy I didn't realize they were here until they knocked on the door. I didn't have a good place to hide the box so I just kicked it under the coffee table and opened the door. The paramedics revived my girlfriend and she was fine. Meanwhile two cops show up and stroll through the door, unannounced, and start asking me questions like "Where's the rest of your stash?" At first I didn't say anything but then one of them claimed I was looking suspiciously over his shoulder so he goes into the kitchen and picks up a coffee grinder full of poppy grounds. I told him what it was. My line of thinking was that maybe if I gave up something small it would keep them from finding the real stuff. Obviously it didn't work. They kept talking to me, trying to get information, telling me I shouldn't be doing drugs, etc., and then one of them picked up the box (apparently one of the paramedics saw me moving it through the window and told the police), which was taped shut, and asked me to open it. I said I didn't want to open it. They said they were taking it and opening it anyway. At that point I panicked, because there were a LOT of drugs in that box (3111 pills, according to the police report), and I figured I was looking at a possible intent to distribute charge along with 20 counts of possession. So I started talking.

The paramedics insisted on taking my girlfriend to the hospital, even though she was fine. I wanted to go with her, but I couldn't drive or I'd get a DUI. The cops said they'd drive me there, and I went, handcuffed in the back of the car. After a couple hours sitting around in the hospital a different cop showed up and brought me into a room to interrogate me. They had opened the box and knew everything that was inside. I was bullied into talking. I was told if I didn't cooperate they would take me to jail over the weekend. My habit was rather large. I took a lot of different pharms, so it's hard to say exactly what my tolerance was, but I'd estimate a typical day would involve 120 mg oxymorphone (snorted), 200 mg of morphine (plugged), 3 - 4 tbsp pod grounds, and/or smoking 1 - 2 50 mcg fent patches. At one point I was just taking oxycontin and was taking about 400 mg a day, and this was 4 - 5 weeks before the arrest, so I'd say my habit was in that neighborhood, maybe more. SO the prospect of kicking this habit in jail scared the shit out of me, as I'd never kicked such a large habit, and I'd never been in jail. So I talked. A lot. After the interrogation was over the cop drove my girlfriend and me back to my place. He wasn't doing us a favor so much as seizing my computer as evidence.

Initially I was charged with one count of posession of CII substance but was told I could be charged with 20+ counts along with other charges. Luckily I got a good lawyer. He said the seizure of the drugs, as well as the computer, were illegal. If it went to court I could assert my constitutional right against unreasonable search and seizure and try to have the evidence suppressed. This would cost an additional $5k and would be unlikely to succeed as the cops would probably lie and the judge would probably believe the cops over me. So instead he was going to try to get me into this drug court program.

Meanwhile, I was in withdrawals as the police took almost everything. I had nothing but 5 mg percocets for several days and was taking 70 - 80 mg a day and still sick as hell. Didn't eat for several days, dry heaving constantly, no sleep. I tried to get into methadone clinics but nobody would take me since I didn't have a medically supervised detox attempt. I couldn't get into the detox places either as they were all inpatient and required at least a 1-week stay and I was starting a new job, literally the day after I was arrested. I made it to the first two days of my training but after that I was too sick. I finally found a bupe doctor who would see me on Thursday, the 24th. So I went in to see him, sick, and he wouldn't give me anything until Friday, after I was in total withdrawal for 24 hours. That night was almost unbearable and I probably would have killed myself if I didn't have a shitload of benzos and alcohol. So I went in and did the 1/4 pill at a time thing. After a few hours a lot of my physical withdrawal symptoms were gone but it didn't help with the anxiety, cravings, depression, crying, etc. I'd been hoping the Subs would make my life manageable enough to go to work but they didn't. I was still crying and having panic attacks by Monday so I quit. I'm currently unemployed.

My court date was October 14. I was charged with four counts of possession. My lawyer was able to get me into drug court, and orientation was today. I don't know all the details but I think for a year I have to go to classes, counseling, take drug tests, etc., and if I complete everything the charges are expunged. Unfortunately, from what I've been told so far they're not going to let me stay on Subs, which is bullshit. I'm barely functional as it is. I was really hoping for good news on this but I'm supposed to be completely sober for a year. The guy doing the orientation suggested I take another treatment, like naltrexone. Fucking moron. Naltrexone doesn't help addicts, it just keeps them from getting high. Along with experiencing pleasure of any kind. Being on that shit would be worse than nothing.

I still don't have my computer back. It will probably be another 2 - 3 weeks, at the minimum. My lawyer sent me a copy of the police report. The report was very inaccurate. There were several outright lies, mostly claiming I voluntarily gave up the drugs and my computer. The police also claimed to have seen bags of pills sticking out of the box, even though it was TAPED SHUT. Despite all this, if this goes to court the judge will believe the cops over me, so it doesn't matter.

So now I'm jobless, without opiates (except Subs, soon to be wholly without), and mildly addicted to benzos. Oh, and my girl and I have hospital bills for about $3000.


dude, didnt you have plenty of time to flush or eat your shit...why did you wait until they were knocking at your door? did I miss anything?

[nick]

[QUOTE=doctor diesel;430236][QUOTE=OpiateQueen;430028]Doc - they let u have methadone, subs in gaol over there dont they?? in the UK in mean??

i knew they didn't give it to those that weren't already on it - i don't know when they do that here - although you'd think that they must if so many are on it inside... anyway, do they give it to those that are already registered on the done program when they get arrested/gaoled?

This isn't right.MMT is available in jail for short and medium sentence prisoners,you don't need to have been on MMT before.

Hell,we readdict prisoners before they leave jail.So,they're less likely to od on release.

However there's still a post code lottery with MMT in prison.Some jails are resistant to rxing done,but will if pushed.On the other hand some jails virtually force it down folks throats.

Doc,tell your mate to push for MMT and if he's sentenced to under 5 years(I think 5) he should get it.

[LeChuck]

Hey, I'm terribly sorry you had to go through this, and reading this makes me want to get back to the streets so I can get back to trying to fix things even more rather than sit behind a computer an apologize for law enforcement gone wrong.

All of the advice given on this thread already is some of the best advice you can get, such as taking the OD person outside and closing and locking the door, and what not.

As for advice that I can give on the situation? Go over their reports as many times as it takes and just look for conflictions in the report to prove they are lying. If they weren't smart enough to do it correctly, then they probably are not smart enough to do it corruptly. Do not depend on your lawyer to do this for you, although doing it with you lawyer would be good. YOU were there, and YOU know how things really were as apposed to how they say. Find some shred of proof to find that they lied about ANYTHING, and then the entire case will fold and there is a good chance the officers will be fired for lying.

Also, when you plea barging a case, your chance of getting an appellate court to take up your case for wrong doing on the LEO's part is nil.

Also, If I were you, I'd quit posting about this all together as I promise you this thread is being watched.
I didn't even think about dragging my girlfriend outside and locking the door. It would have been difficult, under the circumstances. The 911 dispatcher deliberately kept me on the phone until the paramedics arrived. I had a hard time even moving shit around to lie my girlfriend on the floor as the dispatcher was like "HEY what are you doing? What was that noise?" And like I said, neither the ambulance nor police used sirens. They got here so fast I don't know what else I could have done. I go over the scenario in my head over and over again, thinking what I could have done differently that wouldn't have endangered my girl and keeping the cops from seizing anything. It's useless thinking about it now, though. Cops took my drugs, I lost my job, and I have criminal charges. I can't change what happened. All I can do is look for a new job and try to fight the charges or else get through drug court on nothing. It sucks but I don't know what else I can do.

I did go over the reports and there was a ton of bullshit in there. Glaring omissions, outright lies. One of the reports says that when asked what was in the box, I said there was, quote, "over a thousand dollars of narcotics inside." I said no such thing, and I don't even use the word "narcotics"--EVER. It's a police term. There's a lot of shit like that in the reports. I made notes of all the lies/inaccuracies and ended up with over three pages. I've talked to my lawyer about it and he believes me on everything but thinks rejecting drug court in this situation would be very risky. There's no proof I didn't consent to a search except for my word, and an addict's word isn't worth shit in a court of law.

I assumed this thread would be watched when I created it. My lawyer says the police would not be investigating my case at the moment, as long as the drug court offer is in effect. If I reject drug court, the police might look into my recent postings on here. I've been careful not to say anything incriminating, but I do worry about it. I felt like I needed some advice from people like me, though, as all the support I've had so far has been from family and my lawyer.


Just thought I would add that I would not be optimistic about prevailing on the search and seizure issue. I've argued many motions to suppress with fact patterns like these and lost most of them. In your case, the words "OD" on the phone plus the likelihood that the EMTs asked you what she OD'd on --- not to mention the pods -- were evidence of crime that would fall in the "plain view" category (or, I guess, "plainly heard" in the case of the statements). When an officer claims "plain view" and there is no way to absolutely disprove them (e.g., they were in the foyer and claim to have seen something in another room and it can be shown by video or diapgrams that LEO couldn't possibly have seen what they claimed), the court will usually believe the officers. The statement by one cop that you looking "suspiciously" at the box could also be used to justify their search and seizure.
The box in question was taped shut with duct tape, so there's no way the police could have seen bags of pills sticking out, as they claim in the reports. However, there's no way for me to prove it was taped shut. I assume the police threw the tape away when they opened the box. I suppose the box could be analyzed to prove there was tape on it at one point, but that wouldn't really help me. So the way I see it, the seizure was definitely illegal but the cops are saying I voluntarily gave up the box (why would anyone voluntarily give up a box with over 3000 pills?) so it's the word of a drug addict against the word of two fine, upstanding peace officers.


That said, I don't think I have encountered too many situations where it actually hurt my client or our plea bargaining position to argue a motion to supppress. If a prosecutor or judge would threaten that filing and arguing such motions would result in lesser plea options for you, they are really saying you will prosecuted, or more prosecuted so to speak, for exercsing your constituional rights. Often, we would have our evidentiary hearing on the motion(s) and the judge would promise to issue a written ruling later, and t during the pendency of that opinion, the case would resolve itself via a plea, usually more favorable to my client than the iniital offer because proecutors hate to even take a chance of losing --- those m*therf*ckers are so used to winning, the thought of losing terrifies them.
I am pretty sure that in order to file a motion to suppress, I would have to reject the offer of drug court, because to do drug court I have to plead guilty. Filing a motion to suppress will also cost $5000 (I have no idea why it costs this much, but it's what my lawyer charges). I would hate to spend the money and draw this out in court only to get convicted anyway.


What if you could find a sub or methadone doc who is also an addiction med specialist? Couldn't you then ask the judge if his/her probation department would work with the "addiction treatment team" you already have on board because the nice officers convinced you at the scene you had a problem and needed help, so you went and got it?
My Sub doctor IS an addiction specialist. I have an appointment with him today. I'm going to ask him if he could write a letter or something so I can have a documented, expert medical opinion that I should not be taken off Subs.


dude, didnt you have plenty of time to flush or eat your shit...why did you wait until they were knocking at your door? did I miss anything?
They arrived about 4 minutes after I called 911 (no sirens), the dispatcher kept me on the phone all that time, and there were over 3000 pills. No way I could have flushed everything. I was going to take the box down to the dumpster (live in an apartment complex) but there was no time. I think the paramedics and cops have this system worked out to an art. In retrospect I might have been able to throw the box on the roof and they wouldn't have seen it since it was night, but I didn't think about it. Plus I was hoping to recover the drugs. The worst thing about everything (after my girlfriend almost dying) was having my pharms taken away.

Silencer, I'll ask my lawyer about a plea of abeyance. I googled that and got a lot of results from Utah--maybe it's something you can only do in certain states? I feel like he would have mentioned it to me if it were an option.

Nick, the reason I had so many drugs at my place was basically laziness. Up to this point I had had no encounters with LEO, and I assumed they couldn't search my place without a warrant (they CAN--it's illegal, but it doesn't stop them). I didn't foresee that my girlfriend would OD. I thought we were being very careful. I told her how strong fent was, but we'd smoked it several times before and she was fine. This last time, I guess she took a massive hit (she only took one), because she was unconscious within two minutes and barely breathing two minutes later. Word of advice to anyone smoking fent: don't dry the gel first unless you have a massive tolerance. If you dry the gel out, you can smoke half a patch in one hit if you're not careful (or even if you are--we thought we were careful).

[hydro chris]

sorry to here OP
i dont know about you guys but i hide all my shit if its just 20 perks and their even scripted.

[hovadagod]

Just because the police lie about shit doesn;t mean that you'll get away with lying. No worries on not flushing your shit. You should have hung up on the 911 operator and attended to your GF but I guess they keep you on the phone.

If there was duct tape on your box there should at least be glue on it. Why would you duct tape a box shut?

[SHELLEY]

please, tell us more about how you broke the law
any details you omitted? HOW many illegal oxys did you have?
can you sign a statement for us? :rolleyes:

[chopstix]

My line of thinking was that maybe if I gave up something small it would keep them from finding the real stuff. Obviously it didn't work.

Obviously not - I'm sure it was a heavy moment but cops play on that kind of shit. If anyone finds themselves in this situation, you FOUND them like that, you have no idea why they're unconcious.

And learn CPR if you don't know it - it's not hard.

Glad your GF is alive and ok man, and good luck with the court systems and your current predicament, must suck to be kicking and dealing with this shit..

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

please, tell us more about how you broke the law
any details you omitted? HOW many illegal oxys did you have?
can you sign a statement for us? :rolleyes:

SHELLY, he is quoting from the POLICE REPORT-public record a non issue
though Not making light of BP sit. I do like that count they couldn't just round it of at 3,110 nope 3,111 - trying to sho w HOW acrrute they are

BP -a is your addiction specialist a shrink? psychiatrist ?? if not get one

regarding calls to 911 again: call first state friend is not breath on their own
PERIOD- GIVE THE ADDRES -TELL THEM YOU ARE DOING CPR
DO NOT TALK TO THEM WILL SOMEONE IS LYING THERE DIEING
LEAVE PHONE OFF HOOK - DO NOT HANG IT UP- (that all they want is a means to track down call and location - it for good reasons)
TAKE BODY OUTSIDE- CLOSE DOOR (hopefully lock)
DO CPR UNTIL PARMEDIC COME- TALK TO THEM ONLY


AN OPEN DOOR TO PARAMEDICS IS OPEN TO PUBLIC IS OPEN TO COPS/
UNWARENTED SEARCH AND SEIZE GOES RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW WITH AN OPEN DOOR (sorry,man)

[LeChuck]

Just because the police lie about shit doesn;t mean that you'll get away with lying. No worries on not flushing your shit. You should have hung up on the 911 operator and attended to your GF but I guess they keep you on the phone.

If there was duct tape on your box there should at least be glue on it. Why would you duct tape a box shut?
Why do you think I'm lying? I haven't lied about anything. And I did attend to my girlfriend, I did exactly what the dispatcher told me to do, which was to lie her on the floor and prop her head back. I had to move some furniture first so that took me at least a minute. As for the tape, I didn't want bags of pills sticking out of anything to prevent exactly the kind of bullshit reason for seizing the box the cops used anyway. Plus I intended to throw the box somewhere and recover it later. Didn't want goodies scattered everywhere. It wasn't the most brilliant of plans but it was the best I could come up with at the time. Would have worked if I'd had 1 - 2 more minutes.



AN OPEN DOOR TO PARAMEDICS IS OPEN TO PUBLIC IS OPEN TO COPS/
UNWARENTED SEARCH AND SEIZE GOES RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW WITH AN OPEN DOOR (sorry,man)
Not according to my lawyer. The seizure was definitely illegal. If all they needed was an open door, why lie on the police report about me consenting to a search and giving up a box full of drugs? Besides, I didn't open the door for the police. I opened it for paramedics, they didn't shut it, and as there were at least five of them blocking a tiny room I didn't think to go past them and shut the door. Cops showed up at almost the same time and strolled right in unannounced.

I really wish I'd dragged my girlfriend outside and locked the door. It seems like such a good idea in retrospect. I'm not sure I could have done it without hurting her, though. I had a hard enough time pulling her off the couch. She's not a big girl but pulling dead weight is difficult, especially for a scrawny dude like me.

I don't have a psychiatrist at the moment. Shrinks are expensive...

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

Bill pony- just try to help- lawyer can say alot of things on princple
but when all is said and done my quote above will hold true- trust me
how are YOU going to prove otherwise, lying on report, welcome to the real deal
again you are there with girl turning blue and a box with over 3,000 pills

who would you believe if you where on jury of this one??

Lawyers are expensive too
SHRINKS TRUMPTS ALL IN ABILAILTY TO PRESCRIBE any meds, any
AND CAN personal help to start the hard part of self healing,
this is for your benifiet
again I Have followed your threads to where you are now,
SOMEONE?thing IS WATCHING OVER YOU, IN A GOOD WAY

much luck

ps they ability to carry somone weight, I've been in simliar situation,I not a big guy.
but with gal dying in me arm I could have pick up a car at that monet in time.
yes she lived too- no I wasn't partying with her jsut happen to stop on way home from working
This was a long,long time ago, and it haunted me for long time- but she's clean and happy

[upstate_007]

please, tell us more about how you broke the law
any details you omitted? HOW many illegal oxys did you have?
can you sign a statement for us? :rolleyes:

But his lawyer said the police would not be investigating any further. And surely they won't be coming back here anymore to dig up dirt. :D

I trust lawyers about as much as I trust the police.

[Restharrow]

When people get into this kind of heavy duty partying and someone OD's -- about the best that can happen is the life gets saved.

You can re-play this over and over in your mind, but its like having a bad car wreck -- if you are going to drive, you take the chance of a car wreck.

Personally, I could NOT get comfortable with 3,000 pills in a box on the coffee table, while I was partying, but I am that type of up-tight dude.

I keep most of my meds in a safe and every couple of days take out what I need. IMO a safe is the best investment anyone can make that takes a lot of controlled substances.

Hope it all works out for you and good job in saving your GF's life.

EDIT: When Swim had some legal problems, the FIRST thing his lawyer said was, "DO NOT POST ANYTHING ABOUT THIS IN ANY DOPER CHAT ROOMS". This was a long time ago and I know lawyers have different opinions about stuff, but it was a BIG ISSUE with SWIM's lawyer that EVERY WORD SWIM SAID about the case went thru counsel. You sure you ought to be discussing this in here?? Not trying to be an AH and it is interesting to hear about it.

I am NOT suggesting that Opiophile is a"Doper Chat Room". No offense intended to anyone.

Will

[More Feen]

As I've said earlier in this thread;

You saved your Girlfriend's life.

I've been out of touch with mainstream America for a while, but could you not play up this IMPORTANT fact for the judge/jury:

Regardless of your personal use of drugs, you were still able to assess the situation and prioritize/triage the steps needed to save a person's life--successfully.

Did you put yourself in to harm's way? Well, you did not rush into a burning building to save this life, but you did put yourself at risk by not hiding your stash FIRST. So in that regard, you "sacrificed" something, your freedom, potentially, to save a life.

In almost any other circumstance, one might call you a hero. But the drug aspect will taint this perception, unfortunately.

I think in the right mouth (lawyer) you could make a compelling case.

Best of luck to you,

M F

[SeVeN]

So, Am I the only one wondering what you told the police to make them go back and get your computer?!!

Or did I miss some one asking that one already ( i really did try to read every post)

[upstate_007]

So, Am I the only one wondering what you told the police to make them go back and get your computer?!!

Or did I miss some one asking that one already ( i really did try to read every post)

I was wondering the same thing.

[More Feen]

Depending on the circumstances, a person's computers can provide a wealth of information to LE.

Purchases, websites visited, downloads, etc....

I saw video of a pedophile caught grabbing the bum of a young girl at a BestBuy (or someplace similar), the security detained him and called LE on him. They searched his home computer and found enough evidence to put him away for quite a while (hopefully).

I don't know if seizing a computer & searching it comes under "probable cause" or what, but it happens all the time and they have comp. forensic technicians who can glean data from the HD--even if its been deleted.

People used to say that after deleting files, you should save "innocent" files--like nature pix--hundreds of them over the same space you just deleted. Re-delete those pix and repeat.

The magnetic data that could be retrieved & used against you will eventually be unretrievable. But how many times must you save & delete the "innocent" files before the bad data is unretrievable??

IDN--maybe a computer-savvy O-file can answer??

M F

[SeVeN]

I was wondering the same thing.

Good, I've found a lot of O'philers to be pretty quick on the up-take so I couldn't understand why this hasn't been asked yet and made me wonder about the rest of you:confused-


Depending on the circumstances, a person's computers can provide a wealth of information to LE.

Purchases, websites visited, downloads, etc....

I saw video of a pedophile caught grabbing the bum of a young girl at a BestBuy (or someplace similar), the security detained him and called LE on him. They searched his home computer and found enough evidence to put him away for quite a while (hopefully).

I don't know if seizing a computer & searching it comes under "probable cause" or what, but it happens all the time and they have comp. forensic technicians who can glean data from the HD--even if its been deleted.

People used to say that after deleting files, you should save "innocent" files--like nature pix--hundreds of them over the same space you just deleted. Re-delete those pix and repeat.

The magnetic data that could be retrieved & used against you will eventually be unretrievable. But how many times must you save & delete the "innocent" files before the bad data is unretrievable??

IDN--maybe a computer-savvy O-file can answer??

M F

I understand that a siezed computer can bring a wealth of information, but in many of the cases it is siezed because investigators think they will find something, and my more important point is that Bill said he basically spilled his guts to the cops and then they came and got his computer.
So to me the logical question to ask is, what did he say that made the police want his computer?:confused:

[OpiXPO]

Standard Operating Procedure for a drug cache of that size. Usually incriminating evidence can be pulled off it, so detectives usually want it pulled for an investigation and have the guys on patrol nab it. At least that's how it worked where I was. I'm so sorry you had to go through this, at least you still have your girl friend though.

[nodrover]

Seems like Mexico sounds pretty good right about now, huh?:D

[chopstix]

People used to say that after deleting files, you should save "innocent" files--like nature pix--hundreds of them over the same space you just deleted. Re-delete those pix and repeat.

The magnetic data that could be retrieved & used against you will eventually be unretrievable. But how many times must you save & delete the "innocent" files before the bad data is unretrievable??

IDN--maybe a computer-savvy O-file can answer??

M F

Depends. After one pass what's recoverable is already gonna be seriously fragmented; but the amount of data, the OS and the type of activity on the machine are all factors in forensics. There are tools out there that can wipe drives clean quickly, but if you're storing incriminating shit or using your machine for incriminating shit, smart to educate yourself on this stuff.

One option is to use an encrypted file system, then they can't get shit off the drive without the passphrase, and the encryption IS (or I should say "can be") strong enough to keep even the NSA out, if you set it up right..

Complicated subject..

[Restharrow]

So, Am I the only one wondering what you told the police to make them go back and get your computer?!!

Or did I miss some one asking that one already ( i really did try to read every post)
If I understood the OP, he had 3,000 pills in his possession in a box on / under the coffee table. That size stash has a good chance of coming thru the web IMO. Either the pills themselves, or purchase of money orders, etc. or correspondence with people buying or selling the pills.

I did not catch the part about coming back for the computer -- I assumed they took it during the original search.

Will

[More Feen]

Depends. After one pass what's recoverable is already gonna be seriously fragmented; but the amount of data, the OS and the type of activity on the machine are all factors in forensics. There are tools out there that can wipe drives clean quickly, but if you're storing incriminating shit or using your machine for incriminating shit, smart to educate yourself on this stuff.

One option is to use an encrypted file system, then they can't get shit off the drive without the passphrase, and the encryption IS (or I should say "can be") strong enough to keep even the NSA out, if you set it up right..

Complicated subject..

Thanks for the input ChopStix!

Of course, the best encryption is meaningless if the subect reveals it during interrogation (not a dig on the OP). Sometimes in such a situation where a life was lost, or nearly lost, a person is so overwhelmed emotionally, that they spill all the beans.

LE count on this happening, I'm sure.

M F

[SeVeN]

If I understood the OP, he had 3,000 pills in his possession in a box on / under the coffee table. That size stash has a good chance of coming thru the web IMO. Either the pills themselves, or purchase of money orders, etc. or correspondence with people buying or selling the pills.

I did not catch the part about coming back for the computer -- I assumed they took it during the original search.

Will


Thats a good probability. That'd be my guesse too. He def. said that the cop drove him and his girl back to the house from the hospital and picked up the computer.

I just figure he told the cop where he was getting the pills from so they confiscated his computer.

[hovadagod]

I'd like to a know if there is any cheap free program that will wipe the old files or whole drive.


Depends. After one pass what's recoverable is already gonna be seriously fragmented; but the amount of data, the OS and the type of activity on the machine are all factors in forensics. There are tools out there that can wipe drives clean quickly, but if you're storing incriminating shit or using your machine for incriminating shit, smart to educate yourself on this stuff.

One option is to use an encrypted file system, then they can't get shit off the drive without the passphrase, and the encryption IS (or I should say "can be") strong enough to keep even the NSA out, if you set it up right..

Complicated subject..

[LeChuck]

Thats a good probability. That'd be my guesse too. He def. said that the cop drove him and his girl back to the house from the hospital and picked up the computer.

I just figure he told the cop where he was getting the pills from so they confiscated his computer.
I can't really say why they took my computer as it might tend to incriminate myself. I did NOT consent to them taking it, however, and my lawyer says the seizure was illegal. BUT on the reports it says I voluntarily gave it up. It will be a couple more weeks before I get it back, probably.

Posting this thread would be a bad move if the case were going to court, but I'm about 99% sure I'm going to do drug court, which means prosecution no longer cares about this case. That's why I waited until I was offered drug court before posting anything about what happened.

[chopstix]

I'd like to a know if there is any cheap free program that will wipe the old files or whole drive.

It's actually pretty easy to wipe drives - format, fill it with random bits, format, fill it, format, fill it...

Or you could use a little thermite, but that might draw attention..

I absolutely would stay away from any over the counter, in a box solution. No matter the OS, use an OPEN source tool that's auditable by dirty hippies worldwide - Eleusis can explain about all the advantages of using dirty smelly hippy code as opposed to some closed up $200 executable that does who-knows-what, aside from the programmers.

Seriously, not a job I'd entrust to any MS security vendor. Start studying computer security and you'll find 99% of them are at least familar with and probably code under a unix environment, for a reason, and that reason ain't money.

If you run windows, boot off something like knoppix-std (security tools distribution) or Backtrack, both contain tools to wipe drives and also tools (tct - the coroners toolkit) to try and recover data from a hosed drive.

http://www.knoppix-std.org/
http://remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html

Macs (OSX+) and *nix systems can compile and run a wide array of tools to keep your shit to yourself. If you're truly concerned, I'd highly recommend looking into encrypted file systems. There's a small performance hit, and maybe a little less convenient for daily use, but overall probably the best solution. Either that or keep an encrypted back-up somewhere not obvious, and keep a disk-wipe utility handy.

I remember a case years ago, some mobster in NY was using PGP for all his communication, and they couldn't get him. He was more tech savvy and knew the tools. They finally got him with a hardware keylogger that they (fbi) plugged inline to his keyboard port on his desktop. Bam, they got the passphrase and game over.

PGP/GPG is really good shit, probably the best encryption on the planet...

Fascinating subject, but again gets complex quick.. Again the short answer to your question is to wipe the disk with an external OS not running in RAM and not off the target drive. Linux & xBSD boot disks are perfect for that scenario, but not instant, which is why I'd recommend using an encrypted file system as a first or really second line of defense, first being router and LAN monitoring for anomalous traffic..

[OpiateQueen]

I can't really say why they took my computer as it might tend to incriminate myself. I did NOT consent to them taking it, however, and my lawyer says the seizure was illegal. BUT on the reports it says I voluntarily gave it up. It will be a couple more weeks before I get it back, probably.

Posting this thread would be a bad move if the case were going to court, but I'm about 99% sure I'm going to do drug court, which means prosecution no longer cares about this case. That's why I waited until I was offered drug court before posting anything about what happened.
I'm assuming nothing happened to your girl - law enforcement wise?? Isn't it going to be near on impossible to stay totally clean for this 'drug court' if your gfriend is still around you and using???

[LeChuck]

I think full disk encryption is a good idea, in addition to having encrypted vaults of important data. There are some free software-implemented disk encryption solutions like TrueCrypt. Hardware full disk encryption is better but there aren't many options. Seagate's makes a consumer hard drive with full disk encryption, the Momentus FDE. Next time I get a new computer I think I'll do full disk encryption and have an encrypted vault.

Unfortunately, if you get a court order to turn over your passphrase, all the encryption in the world won't help you. At the least you'll be charged for not obeying the court order. Luckily some of the better encryption programs have a "plausible deniability" feature where you can create two vaults of equal size, one of which has your important data, the other of which has fake important data. So if police take your computer and find an encrypted partition, and give you a court order to turn over the passphrase, you turn over the passphrase for the fake data, and the police get a vault full of porn...

Wish I'd encrypted my disks.

[hydro chris]

i can definitely tell your not the smartest opotoid on earth by starting a threat like this..
after youve been busted, especially on a harm reduction site that you also belong to
it also doesn't make the site look to good there either..but as they say..
THATS WHY THEY CALL IT DOPE!!

[at&t]

> it (sic) also (sic) doesn't make the site look to (sic) good there either..but as they say..

Hey hydro chris....... I'm just curious, man... I mean... I'll be the first to admit to not being the smartest opiophile, but.. I'm afraid I don't quite follow....


What is it that doesn't make the site look good?

You're just calling him "not the smartest opotoid" for posting incriminating details pertaining to a case/investigation still in progress, and for doing so on a website the cops are aware of and already watching?


I don't know.... personally, I really feel for the guy.... He has gone through (and continues to go through) some really tough stuff lately.......

Anyway..... I don't know..... at&t

[hydro chris]

> it (sic) also (sic) doesn't make the site look to (sic) good there either..but as they say..

Hey hydro chris....... I'm just curious, man... I mean... I'll be the first to admit to not being the smartest opiophile, but.. I'm afraid I don't quite follow....


What is it that doesn't make the site look good?

You're just calling him "not the smartest opotoid" for posting incriminating details pertaining to a case/investigation still in progress, and for doing so on a website the cops are aware of and already watching?


I don't know.... personally, I really feel for the guy.... He has gone through (and continues to go through) some really tough stuff lately.......

Anyway..... I don't know..... at&t
i come across and have a feel that people " non opiate ,non pain patient, naive and others" dont take harm reduction for what its worth.
i just feel its just to soon to post about his issues much to soon. jmo
yeah and maybe i should take calling him an opotoid back..sorry dude

[at&t]

dunno man... anyway, just wonderin'......

cheers, at&t

[asplinteredfawn]

Learn CPR SWIM has only had to call EMS once or so. This is all fictional.

[OpiateQueen]

Learn CPR SWIM has only had to call EMS once or so. This is all fictional.
what is all fictional??

[LeChuck]

You're just calling him "not the smartest opotoid" for posting incriminating details pertaining to a case/investigation still in progress, and for doing so on a website the cops are aware of and already watching?
Look, I'm the only one who has actually seen the police reports, so I have a good idea what the police already know and what they don't. I can say with a high degree of certainty that I have not incriminated myself.

My case is not under investigation at the moment. The investigation is suspended as long as the drug court offer is in effect. I have the paperwork right here. After I meet with my lawyer I'm turning it in, and that's that.

I may not be the smartest opotoid (whatever the hell that means) but I'm not a moron. I waited to post anything until my lawyer advised me it was safe to do so. Some of you may think I'm being stupid but you don't have all the facts, so I would appreciate it if you would not speculate about my intelligence. (This post was directed more at hydro chris, not at&t, btw).

[Hiems]

Consider yourself lucky that you are able to go to drug diversion with the amount of shit you had. Someone my friend knows had to do diversion on a charge from 5+ years ago that was initally dismissed but for some reason they reopened it 5 years later without any significant reason. The charge was for ONLY ONE xtc tablet, which was still considered a felony. It was a pain in the ass according to this person, since the person had a significant habit and had to take frequent drug tests. Just so you know though, buprenorphine is NOT tested for in these tests. So get yourself some Subs. This person got through the tests by stopping ops/weed (he was a chronic weed smoker and o taker) about 3 days before the test, switching to subs (which was still EXTREMELY uncomfortable, but better than nothing) and using one of the detox drinks on the day of the test (XXtra Clean). He also took clonidine to help with the w/d along with the subs and also took Klonopin which is the only benzo that does not show up on these kinds of tests (use that to your advantage!) This worked every time except once where he has bad diarrhea after taking the drink due to being in w/d so the drink pretty much passed right through him so that's why it didn't work. He finally successfully completed the diversion program and the charge was dismissed. I am no suggesting you do this, just relaying this persons experience.

[The Paregoric Man]

Unfortunately, if you get a court order to turn over your passphrase, all the encryption in the world won't help you. At the least you'll be charged for not obeying the court order. Luckily some of the better encryption programs have a "plausible deniability" feature where you can create two vaults of equal size, one of which has your important data, the other of which has fake important data. So if police take your computer and find an encrypted partition, and give you a court order to turn over the passphrase, you turn over the passphrase for the fake data, and the police get a vault full of porn...

Wish I'd encrypted my disks.

Its also possible you have forgotten your passphrase or lost the piece of paper it was written on. I mean who can remember a random twenty character mix of alpha numeric characters ;).




Consider yourself lucky that you are able to go to drug diversion with the amount of shit you had. Someone my friend knows had to do diversion on a charge from 5+ years ago that was initally dismissed but for some reason they reopened it 5 years later without any significant reason. The charge was for ONLY ONE xtc tablet, which was still considered a felony. It was a pain in the ass according to this person, since the person had a significant habit and had to take frequent drug tests. Just so you know though, buprenorphine is NOT tested for in these tests. So get yourself some Subs. This person got through the tests by stopping ops/weed (he was a chronic weed smoker and o taker) about 3 days before the test, switching to subs (which was still EXTREMELY uncomfortable, but better than nothing) and using one of the detox drinks on the day of the test (XXtra Clean). He also took clonidine to help with the w/d along with the subs and also took Klonopin which is the only benzo that does not show up on these kinds of tests (use that to your advantage!) This worked every time except once where he has bad diarrhea after taking the drink due to being in w/d so the drink pretty much passed right through him so that's why it didn't work. He finally successfully completed the diversion program and the charge was dismissed. I am no suggesting you do this, just relaying this persons experience.

Your friend was a fool to take drug diversion on a 5 year old case that was already dismissed once, its not reasonable for the prosecution to reopen minor drug possession cases half a decade later and I can't imagine a judge anywhere that wouldn't agree. I see a lot of people pleading and taking probation on charges that are so flimsy they should have just taken it to court and got it thrown out.

[at&t]

The Paregoric Man posted:
> Your friend was a fool to take drug diversion on a 5 year old case that was already dismissed once,
> its not reasonable for the prosecution to reopen minor drug possession cases half a decade later and
> I can't imagine a judge anywhere that wouldn't agree. I see a lot of people pleading and taking
> probation on charges that are so flimsy they should have just taken it to court and got it thrown out.

Dunno-- *I* can certainly imagine it... Call me jaded, but There is no longer *anything* that I couldn't imagine an American Judge doing in one of these "overcharged" drug cases these days.

But, You're right-- Plenty of people DO take the plea bargain these days... or take probation or whatever...

In fact, as far as I can tell, thats how All (low level) drug cases seem to work these days... The Prosecutor makes up some insane Charges (hence the term "overcharging") that will get the Kid caught smoking a joint thrown in prison for 100 years, and then asks the kid--

"Hey kid... You *could* take this to court, but it would cost tens of thousands of dollars for lawyer bills/'court fees'/etc. Be my guest...
We both know that what you are now charged with is ridiculous bullshit that I pretty much just made up for NO purpose other than to intimidate you, and bully you into a plea bargain/probation thing/in essence-- sentencing without trial/etc."

However, folks that stand up to their charges in these kinds of cases *are* getting rarer and rarer, because, while the Jury is a crapshoot at best, the real issue is that some of these freaking crazy judges, sadly enough, very often Can and Will accept #1. the crazy charges, and #2. the corresponding crazy sentencing guidelines..."

So, its a fucked up system to be caught up in, and just a sad situation all around....

Best of luck to the OP............ May you get your shit dealt with as quickly and painlessly as possible, man...



Also-- for those of you who were discussing encryption software, and whether or not you can be compelled to provide your password, Strangely enough, a court has decided that forcing someone to divulge the Password entails 'Forced Self Incrimination'.. I don't know... I thought you guys might find this interesting... Its a pretty recent case.

They compare it (giving up the password) NOT to being forced to provide a key to your locked safe, but, rather to being forced to confess to a crime or whatever... It *IS* a good thing, but... I'm not sure I quite get the judge's logic...

Judge: Man can't be forced to divulge encryption passphrase. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html)

Anyway... The case in question is a pedophile in possession of child pornography... You know... not not one of us dangerous degenerate Drug Users. Were it one of us encrypting our log of opiophile posts, we would probably be in jail for a Hundred God Damn Years...

at&t

[LeChuck]

Also-- for those of you who were discussing encryption software, and whether or not you can be compelled to provide your password, Strangely enough, a court has decided that forcing someone to divulge the Password entails 'Forced Self Incrimination'.. I don't know... I thought you guys might find this interesting... Its a pretty recent case.

They compare it (giving up the password) NOT to being forced to provide a key to your locked safe, but, rather to being forced to confess to a crime or whatever... It *IS* a good thing, but... I'm not sure I quite get the judge's logic...

Judge: Man can't be forced to divulge encryption passphrase. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html)

Anyway... The case in question is a pedophile in possession of child pornography... You know... not not one of us dangerous degenerate Drug Users. Were it one of us encrypting our log of opiophile posts, we would probably be in jail for a Hundred God Damn Years...

at&t
Neidermeier's ruling was overturned in appellate court. Here's Judge Sessions' ruling. http://files.getdropbox.com/u/24606/Boucher_Sessions_Ruling.pdf

It's bullshit, I know. But the government CAN order you to produce the contents of an encrypted drive.

[at&t]

billthepony posted:
> Neidermeier's ruling was overturned in appellate court.

oh!!!

Was it? d'oh! Thanks a lot BTP.... The last I heard of that case was before it was overturned... I had just assumed that it had stood.....

Thanks man!... rep points for correcting it, and apologies to all for overoptimistic misinformation!


Hope your stuff is going well! (subs, freaking-drug-court, that your gf is feeling ok, etc, etc...) What a life, eh?

at&t

[GOLD N DIEMONDS]

what is all fictional??

LIFE as we know it ;)

[duck]

This is an incredibly valuable thread. It's amazing how the opiophile vortex can turn someone's grave misfortune into harm reduction, without purposefully trying. If the feds ever take my computer and print off posts from here, so be it -- I will print off multiple others that illustrate not only my own (as it is relatively miniscule) but all of the posts on here that truly contribute to people living better lives, and contributing more to society, whether on dope or off dope. You never hear people condone recklessness or abandon on here.

[dharma bum]

Just so you know though, buprenorphine is NOT tested for in these tests. So get yourself some Subs. This person got through the tests by stopping ops/weed (he was a chronic weed smoker and o taker) about 3 days before the test, switching to subs (which was still EXTREMELY uncomfortable, but better than nothing) and using one of the detox drinks on the day of the test (XXtra Clean). He also took clonidine to help with the w/d along with the subs and also took Klonopin which is the only benzo that does not show up on these kinds of tests (use that to your advantage!) This worked every time except once where he has bad diarrhea after taking the drink due to being in w/d so the drink pretty much passed right through him so that's why it didn't work. He finally successfully completed the diversion program and the charge was dismissed. I am no suggesting you do this, just relaying this persons experience.

Hmmm, maybe it's a state by state thing but people in Drug Court here are getting popped right and left taking Suboxone----even employment screenings. Something else---they can drop you back a phase---for Neurontin. They test for it, not junky lore, I've had friends go to jail for fucking Neurontin or Lyrica. One guy I know was in Drug Court and they made him go to rehab for Ultram---BEFORE it was scheduled in this fucked up state.

So I don't know if these are the same programs--Drug Court and Drug Diversion. But Drug Court here is no joke. Your Doctor has to testify (in person) that you need your SSRI before you can take it. When I was in Sub treatment under a different doc. he always new when I had klonopin metabolites in me. He's burst in the room and say," KLONOPIN!!! You just can't stay away from them can you Mike."

[SHELLEY]

in drug court in all the states i've ever heard of it in
you CAN'T take bupe, methadone, prescribed benzos, anything that could possibly get one high
they don't care if it's prescribed or illegal, it's a violation of drug court

just take the jail time man, for fuckin' real

[hydro chris]

^^yup i cant agree more

[LeChuck]

in drug court in all the states i've ever heard of it in
you CAN'T take bupe, methadone, prescribed benzos, anything that could possibly get one high
they don't care if it's prescribed or illegal, it's a violation of drug court

just take the jail time man, for fuckin' real
I'd have pretty much no chance of employment in my field with a felony conviction (four, actually), at least until I could get it expunged (2 - 3 years in ideal circumstances). And even if I went to jail wouldn't it be part of my parole that I have to take drug tests etc.?

I've been to a couple of the court-mandated counseling sessions so far. It's been pretty boring, and I've already given 2 UAs (in four days), but I think I can get through it. It's just 9 months if I don't "relapse," go to the group sessions, do the assignments, and all the other bullshit. I have another week and a half before I have to commit. If I choose not to do it prosecution will reopen my case, but as of now it's closed.

dharma bum I don't think drug court here is quite as ridiculous as what you have in Kentucky. I have to show all prescriptions to the judge but my doctor doesn't have to testify--that is just crazy. I'm also pretty sure they don't test for Lyrica but I could be wrong. No one has told me exactly what the UAs test for and it would probably be suspicious of me to ask. It's an abstinence only program but I assume testing for everything under the sun that has mind-altering properties would be prohibitively expensive. Not sure if they test Subs. It's not allowed but I don't think it shows up.

[Fat Pie]

Just another example of the rotten tricks police pull to get confessions from people who are scared, disoriented and don't know what to do. Your GF OD's, you call the paramedics, save her life, and this is the bullsh*t you get in return. It's gotten so bad that most people are now afraid to call the paramedics, and people end up dying. Thank God it didn't come to that, they might have thrown in a manslaughter charge if she had died. That old "fess up or we'll drive you straight down to county and lock you up for the night!" seems to be endemic amongst cops. I remember I was snorting coke one night; it was very pure and I did far too much. Before long I had an unbearable pain, like an electric shock that ran from the back of my head, all the way down my spine and into my kidneys. I was nearly screaming in pain, and I knew I had to call the paramedics, but I knew that if I did, the cops would likely turn up too, and after I got out of hospital, I'd be arrested for being a junkie (at the time I didn't have any H, but there were really bad scars on my inner arms). So I called them, fessed up to doing coke, and they turned up, took me to hospital, gave me oxygen which didn't help at all, and left me writhing in agony for hours on a bed until the pain went away. The nurses clearly saw the scars, took some blood from the veins in my hands and IV'd saline into me until I cooled down. Then the next day, while I was still too weak to almost stand, I get the predictable call, cops wanting to talk to me. A whole van full of them comes down, and three enter with knife proof vests on. I resigned myself to my fate, thinking they would search the place with a dog, have a warrant etc. etc. One of them sat me down and started asking me questions about what happened. Their info was rather skewed to say the least; they thought I'd been picked up off the street, when in fact I was at home the whole time. Then they asked me where I'd taken it, and I said a friend of a friend had lent me some and I'd taken too much. Then one of them asked me if I still had any drugs left! I said of course not, and then that was it! They left! No charges, no searches, no bs 12 step Narcotic's Anonymous recovery program! It seems that the cops over here in England have better things to do than chase after harmless old junkies (not to say they wouldn't have arrested me if I'd had dope on me). It seems things haven't progressed so well in the US. I feel for ya. Keep fighting them, don't let 'em drown you in 12 step mentality. They have no idea what withdrawal symptoms or being a junkie is like; keep telling yourself that, and don't let them scare you into conformity. Over here, the paramedics deal with medical cases, ad the police deal with criminal cases. That's it. There no police showing up with the paramedics to get your stash before you flush it crap. How does that work in the US anyway. Are the cops notified that an OD is going down by the paramedics? Or do they listen in on medical calls to see if they can catch an OD and then tag along? You would think they had better things to do, what with OD's not being as much of a crime as say, murder or armed robbery. Sounds like they're just looking for easy arrests.

[mikey5string]

Just another example of the rotten tricks police pull to get confessions from people who are scared, disoriented and don't know what to do. Your GF OD's, you call the paramedics, save her life, and this is the bullsh*t you get in return. It's gotten so bad that most people are now afraid to call the paramedics, and people end up dying. Thank God it didn't come to that, they might have thrown in a manslaughter charge if she had died. That old "fess up or we'll drive you straight down to county and lock you up for the night!" seems to be endemic amongst cops. I remember I was snorting coke one night; it was very pure and I did far too much. Before long I had an unbearable pain, like an electric shock that ran from the back of my head, all the way down my spine and into my kidneys. I was nearly screaming in pain, and I knew I had to call the paramedics, but I knew that if I did, the cops would likely turn up too, and after I got out of hospital, I'd be arrested for being a junkie (at the time I didn't have any H, but there were really bad scars on my inner arms). So I called them, fessed up to doing coke, and they turned up, took me to hospital, gave me oxygen which didn't help at all, and left me writhing in agony for hours on a bed until the pain went away. The nurses clearly saw the scars, took some blood from the veins in my hands and IV'd saline into me until I cooled down. Then the next day, while I was still too weak to almost stand, I get the predictable call, cops wanting to talk to me. A whole van full of them comes down, and three enter with knife proof vests on. I resigned myself to my fate, thinking they would search the place with a dog, have a warrant etc. etc. One of them sat me down and started asking me questions about what happened. Their info was rather skewed to say the least; they thought I'd been picked up off the street, when in fact I was at home the whole time. Then they asked me where I'd taken it, and I said a friend of a friend had lent me some and I'd taken too much. Then one of them asked me if I still had any drugs left! I said of course not, and then that was it! They left! No charges, no searches, no bs 12 step Narcotic's Anonymous recovery program! It seems that the cops over here in England have better things to do than chase after harmless old junkies (not to say they wouldn't have arrested me if I'd had dope on me). It seems things haven't progressed so well in the US. I feel for ya. Keep fighting them, don't let 'em drown you in 12 step mentality. They have no idea what withdrawal symptoms or being a junkie is like; keep telling yourself that, and don't let them scare you into conformity. Over here, the paramedics deal with medical cases, ad the police deal with criminal cases. That's it. There no police showing up with the paramedics to get your stash before you flush it crap. How does that work in the US anyway. Are the cops notified that an OD is going down by the paramedics? Or do they listen in on medical calls to see if they can catch an OD and then tag along? You would think they had better things to do, what with OD's not being as much of a crime as say, murder or armed robbery. Sounds like they're just looking for easy arrests.

JUST A TIP:
put some spaces in there man. i usually try to skip a few lines if im writing a large post. at least some paaragraph breaks!:)

[Fat Pie]

JUST A TIP:
put some spaces in there man. i usually try to skip a few lines if im writing a large post. at least some paaragraph breaks!:)

Sorry, I got carried away! The police really to get on my nerves! I remembered to space out my previous posts, but this topic really set me off.

[HandMeSomeOpiates]

If it makes you feel any better I completely understand what your going through. Almost the exact same thing happenend to me years back(excluding the OD incident).

In my situation I was set-up by a "so-called" friend. He brought an undercover to my house...actually my PARENTS house. So thinking nothing, since I've sold to this dude countless times over the 2 years+ I've known him I hooked him up. The undercover get's out of the car all slow like. I'm confused... "I'm Barry, Terry's friend." and puts his hand out.

As soon as I looked in this mothafukaz face I KNEW he was 5-0. I ignore his gesture and calmly but swiftly turned to walk away, when I felt a hand on my shoulder. As I turned around I was staring at a big shiny star that said "*** City DEA/Sherriff Dpt". They had a warrant for my house so I couldn't say shit because of the fuckin Patriot Act.

To make a long story short, I was convicted of 4 felonies. Trafficking Cocaine, Weed, Vicodin, and Xanax. Oh, and they also found a gun which enhanced every fuckin charge. Especially the cocaine charge. And to top it off I had to go through....ready for this........my first EVER w/d from 2 years of daily 150mg hydro and they gave me nothing but pepto and ibuprofuen even though I told them how high a dosage I was on.

If there is a hell on earth I was in dead fuckin center. I was whittled into a ball quietly moaning..... Some black guy came over asked if I was coming off heroin. When I told him Vicodin and Oxy he looked at me with a confused face. I told him it's synthetic heroin basically. He gave me a twix and said it would call my stomach down, and it did for a while.

I was honestly surprised how nice everyone was to me. I wasn't scared really about being in there with all these gangsters I didn't give a flying fuck about anybody...I was dopppppe sick and they all knew.

I did a calender (9 months) and got shocked out(luckily my boss knew some important people). Stayed on probation for 4 years, violated once and went back 3 more months(Over some HUGE BS btw, but that's a whole other story). It's all behind me now and I made it through. It honest to God made me stronger, and I'm sure you'll be stronger and wiser because of this incident in your life. I wish you the best bro. I just wanted you to know that I understand and relate with you my friend, more than you know.

Wishing you the best bro!

HMSO

[torch130]

when i signed up with my methadone clinic they asked me if i wanted to be dosed in jail if i got arrested. i was like yes of course i want my methadone if i am going to jail. as for other meds i think its up to the jails doctor to decide what meds your getting from them.

[Flowergirl]

Cool story bro. Hopefully he wrapped it up a couple years ago.

[Brony]

when i signed up with my methadone clinic they asked me if i wanted to be dosed in jail if i got arrested. i was like yes of course i want my methadone if i am going to jail. as for other meds i think its up to the jails doctor to decide what meds your getting from them.

Thanks for sharing your story, torch. Just make sure to take a look at the date of the thread before posting. This one is from 2009.

[Fat Pie]

It's my fault, I was referencing it in another thread.